Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Justice welcome back to the Capes and Tights podcast right here on capes and tights.com dot. I'm your host, Justin Soderbergh. This episode, we welcome author Wabasheg Rice to the program to talk about his novels Moon of the Crusted Snow, and is recently released here in the United States back in February. Moon of the Turning leaves novel. We're here to talk both novels, the cultural traditions in it, the post apocalyptic, dystopian parts of it, and so much more. So we thank Wabi Shig for coming on the program to discuss his novels. But before you listen to this podcast, follow us on Facebook, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Blue sky, rate, review, subscribe, all those things over on Spotify, Apple, and all your major podcasting platforms. You can listen while watching on YouTube to our YouTube channel as well as on our website, capesandtice.com dot. But this is what Meshe Grice talking Moon of the Turning leaves in his original novel, Moon of the Crested Snow, right here on the Capes and Tights podcast. Enjoy, everyone.
Welcome to the podcast. How are you today?
[00:01:09] Speaker B: I'm doing great, thanks. How about you?
[00:01:11] Speaker A: I'm doing well. The world might end today, though, right? It's actually fitting for us to be recording this today, right?
[00:01:15] Speaker B: No kidding. Like, by the afternoon, it could all go, yeah, I'll blow up. Who knows, right?
[00:01:21] Speaker A: I know. It's so funny how people, I'm here in Maine, so we're right on. We're actually in the path of totality. So we actually have spots in, in Maine, um, up by Sugarloaf mountain ski resort that is going to be full, full darkness during this, this, uh, eclipse that's happening. And I'll get, I think it's like 98% here at my house. Uh, so I'll get to see a little bit of it and so on and so forth. But it's just so funny. I mean, eclipses happen all the time. I know. Like, every. And people are like, it just depends on where you are in the world. And people in this area are like, oh, the world might end. I'm like, it hasn't ended every other time.
But, well, it's so interesting, you know.
[00:01:59] Speaker B: Like, maybe it's because of the population density of this path fatality or just we're all so hyper aware and online these days. But yeah, it seems like this is the biggest one ever, you know?
[00:02:09] Speaker A: So, and I. And it's funny, you see in your own little area that I'm like, it's just main. But then I saw like a, on Facebook, I saw this, like a graphic of where the states will see what you will see and your area. You're getting what?
[00:02:23] Speaker B: Partial, I'm guessing right here we're getting 90% roughly.
So, yeah, not total, but big enough that it's a big deal and classes are canceled and, you know, all kinds of stuff's going on, right.
[00:02:35] Speaker A: So, but like, they're like, we're in a rural area in Maine that people are like, there's like, dot department transportation, like warnings, like, don't look at it while you're driving. And there's just like, people like, going into areas, don't drive on roads that are not, you don't know where they go because it might be, you might get it stuck there or whatever. And it's just like, the people are like, yeah, it's a whole thing. But luckily, my wife and I were just like, we've got a, you know, three week old, like I mentioned, uh, before we started recording. And, uh, we're like, we're not going to go anywhere or do anything. We're just going to step out our front lawn and take a peek at it and then, uh, go back inside. I said, my office has no windows, the studio area. And I said, if she wasn't home on maternity leave, there's a good chance that like 1520 minutes after it was all over, I'd be like, oh, crap.
And I'd be stuck inside and be like, oh, I missed it. I didn't, can't see outside, but it's fun. And we're here to talk books, novels with you. And so let's jump in a little bit with how did you as a writer, become a writer? Have you always been into writing or reading since a young age? Or is this something that came on later on in life?
[00:03:44] Speaker B: Yeah, I think the seed had been planted pretty early on.
I always was keen on reading, maybe not so much into writing just because I probably didn't connect the dots when I was much younger. But I think as the years went on and by the time I got into high school, just doing creative writing assignments and I think really engaging with literature, I think on that level really inspired me to try writing on my own, more or less as a hobby. And I really enjoyed the creative writing assignments in english class in high school. But it wasn't until I read books by indigenous authors when I was like maybe 1617, that I really wanted to be a writer on my own. Just, you know, the effect of representation, you know, the authentic, lived experience that I saw for the first time in literature, you know, just really encouraged me to try it on my own. So it still remained a hobby for, you know, a while after that. But I think that's where the dream started forming of becoming a published writer for sure.
[00:04:50] Speaker A: I love that, too. And I'm a straight white male who grew up very privileged in not knowing a lot outside of this Maine community. I live in like, a state of Maine where it's very bland in cultural representation. And I wasn't until I started actually read Stephen Graham Jones books where, like, where, you know, Stephen has this ability to also to do the indigenous, you know, angle and things and speak from where he, what he knows. And I was like, wait, there's more out there. You know, like in novels, like, you just, I see a lot of, I read a lot of Stephen King because he's, like, my neighbor. And so, so a lot of his is based around Maine and what he sees and what goes on here. And obviously we have a bunch of indigenous cultures here as well. It's not like I'm saying that we don't, but because we do have, you know, neighbors of this. But, but I was just saying, like, it wasn't until I saw, like, this angle, uh, you know, in Steven's writing, and then I saw. I write in, in your book, but I, you know, you're, you've written twelve books, is that correct? According to Goodreads, you have written twelve books.
[00:05:48] Speaker B: Is there more than I've been in twelve? I've written four on my own, so. Yeah. Like short stories, anthologies, et cetera, et cetera, the rest. Right, yeah.
[00:05:55] Speaker A: You've been published in novels at least twelve times or more. But it wasn't until my wife's big into post apocalyptic books.
[00:06:02] Speaker B: Oh, cool.
[00:06:03] Speaker A: And she was more of a big novel reader before I was. When she, when I met her, she was reading a novel a day. It was crazy. Wow. Yeah, it's insane. I'm like, how do you do that? But now I know because I read a lot more and a lot faster than I used to, but I was looking for new books to get her as a gift and so on and so forth. And I kind of like, googled top popular post apocalyptic books in Moon of the crest of Snow came up.
[00:06:26] Speaker B: Oh, right on.
[00:06:27] Speaker A: So I was like, oh, I got to get this for her and so on. Then I was like, well, then I got to read it and I fell in love with it. And that's big thing about it is it stands out in the sense that it's coming from your point of view, in a sense that it has your culture in it, which is awesome. And I've read so many other post apocalyptic books. I read, I'm a huge Walking Dead fan, so I read the Walking Dead comics and things like that, and so. But this gave me a different perspective, and I loved that about it. And so when this came out, and it was funny, I'm used to wanting to be ahead of the game on things. I mean, I. Before we started talking here, the publisher sent me a widget for Netgalley to read Moon of the Turning leaves ahead of time or ahead of time in the United States, because obviously this came out in the fall in Canada. But I want to be ahead of the game. I want things before they come out. And I was so far behind the game on Moon of the Crested Snow, but also so happy because it didn't have to wait long for the sequel, if that makes any sense. It's good to be ahead of the game on things, but also, I don't have to wait that long to read the follow up, which is awesome.
But where did the idea. I mean, obviously you mentioned writing based on what, you know, basically, but where did the idea behind making it, like, a post apocalyptic or what this book really is? We'll start with Moon of the crust of snow, but where did that idea come from? Like, how did that, like, how did. Were you into post, like, the style of book, or is it just that you felt like it needed to be told?
[00:07:57] Speaker B: I think I'd always really enjoyed post apocalyptic or dystopian literature from what I had read in english class in high school, you know, like the so called classics, like 1984, Brave New World, Fahrenheit 451, the Chrysalids, et cetera. Right. So I always appreciated how those books looked at a potential future based on our actions of today and potential outcomes and so on. But those novels, I thought, were always pretty grim, you know, and they always showed, like, really terrible outcomes.
And, you know, my own lived experience as an indigenous person as. As an Anishinaabe person, um, you know, we've already endured several different world ending events in our culture from displacement from our homelands to, you know, the brutal oppression of the state and the removal of children from the homes and so on. Right. So I think I always had that perspective of surviving apocalypse already as an indigenous person. Uh, but there was one very particular event. Uh, it's. It's interesting. We're talking about the eclipse today. Yeah, in the summer of 2003. And I believe this might have impacted your area. There was a huge blackout, came to be known as the Northeast blackout of 2003. And all told, something like 50 million people in parts of Canada and the US were without power.
You know, it took several days for it to be restored in some areas. When that happened, I was actually living in Toronto, working as a freelance journalist. But that day I was back in my home community in the reserve called wasoxing, where I grew up, house sitting for my dad and stepmom, who were on summer holidays with my two younger brothers. And it was, you know, a sunny summer day and the power went out. And we thought that was kind of strange because there was no storm or, you know, high winds or anything like that. And as the afternoon went on and the power remained out, we got bored. So we drove from the reserve into Perry Sound, which is the town about ten minutes away, and we saw that the power was out there too. And we ran into some people we knew, and one of them had heard on the radio that it was this massive blackout. You know, all these big cities like Toronto, Ottawa, Boston, New York, Detroit, Cleveland, et cetera, were all in the dark and nobody knew why. Nobody knew when the power was going to come back on. And my brothers and I, we thought that was it. We're like, that's. This is the end, you know, we gotta go hunker down and get ready to survive the apocalypse, you know, just cause of how it sounded, right? It sounded so intense. Um, so we went back to the reserve and, uh, to our dad's house and, like, made a plan. But as, uh, the night went on, we're like, oh, you know, um, we're. We're here in our home community in the bush where people know how to hunt, people know how to gather medicine and food from the bush. And electricity has only been here for a few generations. People remember living without it and, uh, it's actually the best place to be for, you know, this apocalyptic event that we thought that was happening. Um, so the next day the power came back on and then I eventually went back to Toronto to go back to work. But that really stuck with me, that moment of, of being on the res during the blackout and just how safe we felt and, and just that sense of community that was there that we could rely upon. Uh, and that's really where the idea for Moon of the crested snow started. And I didn't actually begin writing it until several years later, but, you know, I let it gestate in the back of my mind. And that's sort of how it came together.
[00:11:28] Speaker A: I love that, too, because there's a lot of dystopian style novels who, like, jump right into what's happening in the world, what's going on, what tragic event or what big thing that happened and then dealing with it, whereas this was, like, for people who haven't read it yet. And I won't spoil anything, but it's more about not knowing at the beginning, too. It was one of those things that it started off, you're just like, oh, we don't know what's going on, the powers out, and everybody's talking to each other. And you mentioned what happened to you. And that side of things are like, that to me is almost more scary, is like not knowing than actually knowing what's going to happen. And so I did love that aspect of it. And I said, I love the book. And I really was excited to read it and finished. It was wonderful. And a lot of people were like, oh, I haven't heard about that book yet. When I put it on my goodreads and people end up reading it. So you're welcome. You probably sold a couple.
[00:12:15] Speaker B: Thank you. Well, I appreciate that. That's amazing.
[00:12:19] Speaker A: But then I was like, I said that I saw this whole, the fact that you're having a second novel coming up thing, but I'm guessing, and for what I've deciphered online, that this wasn't a plan to write a second book from the, and I'll tell everybody, you know, I'm not going to spoil anything. But anybody who listens and hasn't read it is the book. Moon on the crust of snow ends in a satisfying, in a way that, that you didn't need a second, if that makes any sense, it definitely works. But the idea that, like, if you were just like, nope, that's it. That's what the story was. I don't think people out there would be upset with you. You know, no one would be like, why did he not write the second book? And, but it works. And that's what's cool about it. I love that. So if anybody wants to just read Moon on the crust of snow, they can leave that. But if they want to have a follow up book, it's really good to get into the turning leaves. So what was it, the success of the, what people liked about the first book was it just felt like you had more story to tell. What, what led to the second book?
[00:13:09] Speaker B: It was the response to the first book. Yeah, I definitely did not plan on writing a sequel. I was satisfied with how the first story ended, you know, I saw it as. As the characters riding off into the sunset without me, and, you know, they creating their own future. And I thought if readers want to imagine what happens next, they can on their own. That's what I love about reading, you know, when the author gives me enough to sort of take the story in my own mind to the next part, that's always great. So that's sort of how I wanted to leave it. But when I started taking it out to do public events in the fall of 2018 here in Canada, when it first came out, people almost immediately started asking me whether there was going to be a sequel. And I would say no because I wasn't planning on it, you know? And then the look at disappointment on their face would tell me that maybe I should start thinking of a part two, you know, and maybe I should, like, like, fudge the truth a little bit and not just outright tell them, not outright shut them down.
[00:14:09] Speaker A: Right.
[00:14:09] Speaker B: In terms of their hopes for a second book. So that's where it started. Yeah. It was people saying they wanted a part two, and. And it took me, you know, probably about a year to start really putting an idea together about what next steps would be for the characters and the world and so on. But I give full credit to the enthusiasm of readers who really enjoyed the first book and encouraged me to write a second one. And, you know, it's really an amazing gift. It's just such a blessing that I received from readers to do that, to take those steps. And I thought to myself, you know, I owe it to them. If they're so enthusiastic about it, they want to see what happens next. I owe it to readers to try to envision a next part, but I also owe it to the characters. You know, these are fictional people that I've grown to love and admire, and they deserve, you know, more life too, if it's there. Right? So, yeah, all those things coming together was really inspirational for me, and I'm just very thankful for all of it.
[00:15:11] Speaker A: That's awesome, and it's great to have that. Almost, like, pre sold books too. If you think about it, like, as an author, you're, like, sitting there like, well, hopefully people will buy my books. Like, this would be great, but having enough people out there being like, I want a second one, you're like, okay, at least I can sell ten of them. There's ten people here who want a second book. And it's nice to know that ahead of time going into it, but it can fail almost, because I've seen it, obviously.
We talk a lot of books, horror books and things that here on the podcast we talk a lot of comics, and in the comic industry it's a thing where like there's a lot of five issue series now instead of like, hey, this book's gonna go on until it goes on. It's like we're gonna do a finite number of issues because they don't want to have to cancel anything. They don't want to have to like, oh, this would be ten issues and only after five issues because it didn't sell. So planning a book as just a single book is great. And if you can make a second one awesome, you don't want to plan it. It kind of stinks sometimes. Like say Stephen Graham Jones, we mentioned him earlier, wrote his Indian Lake trilogy, would plan on issue three, three books like he has, but only one was made. That would suck. And so like, it does, it works to your benefit in that sense that you have to like, okay, cool. I could continue taking this story, but I don't have to. And you ended up making it and it made it wonderful. The book takes place twelve years after the end of the first book. Was that plan? Was that an easy way to be? Like, it doesn't have to be just a continuation of the story in a sense. Like it was just like, we want a time jump, people like time jumps. I think. I think, no, every new detail for the past twelve years is probably not necessary. Was that from the beginning or was that something you deciphered after a couple of years of trying to write this book?
[00:16:50] Speaker B: Yeah, that was something I wanted to do from the beginning for a bunch of reasons, you know, I think the first thought usually is pick it up right after the end of part one. Right. And to me that seemed like more of the same story. And I didn't necessarily want to do that because the first book is about the moment of collapse and the immediate aftermath, like the struggle between good and evil there. And I thought, okay, if we see them in their next steps after the end is very much the same atmosphere, the same mood, the same tension.
And I just wanted to try something different. And in that sense too, I wanted to make it sort of a standalone that people could access on their own without having to read the first one, the sequel itself.
So having that space, that slight departure, I think gives it a different opportunity for people to enter into the world or however they choose to, you know.
And the biggest reason I think though, for me was to put the spotlight on the younger generation, to show the people who were little kids in the first book being teens and young adults in the second book. And that really helped with the whole world building aspect of it, because, you know, they don't really remember the world of the past with electricity or cell phones or whatever else, you know, all they know is the bush and, and hunting and making shelter in that sort of really land based way of life. Right? And it was cool to imagine the next generation from that perspective. And that was a big motivating factor for me to place it that far into the future, too. And lastly, it just was a great opportunity to be speculative because as mentioned, the first book is about the moment and the immediate aftermath.
And then putting it into the future, I was able to sort of dream up what would remain of the worlds that we know today, you know, what the values of people would be, what structures would still be standing, et cetera, et cetera, what supplies would still be around and all that. So it was really cool to just dream that up from a storytelling perspective anyway.
[00:19:01] Speaker A: I think that the time jump like that, two or twelve years, ten years, things like that. And things also puts it to perspective that it's like, this is here to stay. In a sense. He would have picked it up right afterwards, be like, oh, and five years later, the world was back to normal. At least this, you know, it's like, no, they've been dealing with what's going on, the ramifications, for twelve years at least. And so, like, at least that has that whole, like, no, this is what we're doing. This is how we have to live, is how we have to survive. And now we can figure out how to make it. And I like it. I like the idea that the younger generation has to learn, or basically know is what they know. It's like the opposite. When you look at someone like, I look at my son and be like, you're not going to know what it's like not to have to wait for something to download from the Internet. Like the opposite of that. Like, whereas, like, he's so funny when he was like, dad, hurry up, it's faster. I'm like, you have no idea how easy this is right now. You can watch a movie and then watch a different movie right after because you don't like that movie without getting up and putting a vhs tape in. Like the opposite of that. Like the idea that we knew what it was like as an older generation, but our younger generation doesn't. And that's. I love that aspect of it, too, because it brings a different perspective and view of what, you know, some of these kids, like, if in the. If, say, the apocalypse does start today, say we get cut off in this recording because the eclipse is happening in the world's ending, that people will, as they get older, will be like, this is just part of life. Whereas all of us, you know, myself, 38, almost 38 years old, is gonna complain about the fact that I don't have refrigeration or don't have the Internet or whatever, whereas my son might just be like, this is part of life. Like, exactly. A different view on this is just how we have to do things, and we'll do it. So that spot is great. And having a three year old and having kids and thinking about what their life would be like if the world did, end quote, unquote, end today is fun reading, I think.
[00:20:48] Speaker B: And, yeah, it's also less scary, too, right? Like, it's a little more optimistic and maybe naively so to some degree, but at the same time, it's like, why just worry and be afraid all the time, and why not try to be constructive about it?
[00:21:03] Speaker A: And like we mentioned earlier, this is not a straight ahead, post flock apostolic, I can't say post apocalyptic or dystopian novel. There's. It's steeped in cultural, cultural traditions in it for you. Uh, and which is awesome. Which what's great about me is I love being able to read a fictional novel, but that I also learn out of, you know, I mean, like, there's not, like, the stuff you're saying in this is just true stuff. Like, you know, there's traditions or, you know, some of the language you use in here is real language. This is not, you know, made up for a book or some sort of. It's not, you know, Klingon. This is actual native language. And I like that, too, because I feel like I learned with this book, and I mentioned with Stephen Graham Jones, too. It's like I'm learning things from your culture that I didn't know by reading a fictional book at two. And that's really cool. I think that you're going to reach a wider audience to learn more about some serious things in your culture, which is awesome. And so I'm guessing that's important to you to tell in your novels as well.
[00:22:00] Speaker B: I'm guessing, yeah, you know, and it's important, but it's also a great opportunity that, you know, comes with a lot of responsibility.
And I think Stephen would probably agree that, you know, when your name is on the COVID you sort of carry the weight of a whole community or a whole nation with you. Right. So it's really important to, I think, consult with people ahead of time to, I think, humble yourself and be as transparent as possible and in your approach and what you represent, too. So I always say, like, you know, I grew up in Anishinaabe community. That's what I know. But my Anishinaabe experience is not the same as somebody else's from a community maybe, you know, a few hundred kilometers away or something like that. Right. But to put, you know, culture, you know, in. On a platform in a literary work is, you know, really appreciative of. For that opportunity, you know, because I was able to stay true to what I knew about who we are as Anishinaabe people. And most importantly, because I'm looking at the future, I want to show how the culture, the language, those ways of life still thrive after yet another apocalypse endured by our people. Right.
[00:23:27] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:23:28] Speaker B: So, yeah, it's exciting, and it's, again, part of that speculative nature of storytelling and the opportunity to sort of provide a different perspective on that.
[00:23:38] Speaker A: And I didn't want to put you and Stephen in the box, too, I'll tell you, the public knowing. So, you all know, I basically read two indigenous authors that you and Stephen. So it's not like I'm just like, you guys are the only two out there doing this. There's tons of people out there that are doing tons. And so. And a lot of them are, I've heard are really good. And I want to get into it more. I was just saying that, like, I just finished reading the angel of indian lake because the series just ended, and.
[00:24:02] Speaker B: I'm stoked to read that to you.
[00:24:05] Speaker A: It's a great. And I actually am in the middle of. I was a teenage slasher, too, which is his latest book, but it's coming out this summer. It's a novel he has coming out, but, yeah, it's not like you two are the only two out there writing indigenous novels. I'm just saying that this is what I know and so on. And you also write what you know. I mean, let's be honest. Like, you're not going to. There's a way you could purposely not. Right. You could purposely be like, okay, not as many people might know about this cultural part of a tradition. So I'm going to leave it out because it might not wirely meet people, but instead you didn't. I like that. That's my big thing in using words.
[00:24:41] Speaker B: Thanks.
[00:24:42] Speaker A: There was a book that I picked up recently. I forget what it was, but it came with a companion, like a language companion, because there was words, sentences they used in the book that were in Spanish that they didn't translate. Like, they didn't put it into English, but they put a little book that came with it saying, page twelve, paragraph two, whatever. This is what the translation would be, so that you could potentially read it straight through and have those spanish words in there. But then if you needed to or wanted to know what the actual translation was, they left the book with it, which I thought was pretty cool because it allows the author to be more genuine on how they're writing, but also allows myself, who doesn't know a lot of other foreign languages, an ability to actually grasp what's being said and being, which is really cool. But I think a lot of, if you go online and read a lot of your reviews, a lot of your reviews are very happy about the fact that you used, you know, traditional words and things like that in your. In your things not being part of your culture, if that makes any sense, which is cool.
[00:25:44] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Well, that was an interesting choice and discussion editorially with Moon of the crested snow when I handed over a first draft to my editor of that book. Her name's Susan Reneuf at ECW Press, all the dialogue that had anishinaabemoin or the Ojibwe language always had an english translation spoken by the character right after right. And when Susan read that, she said, you know, that doesn't make any sense, because if somebody is speaking the language to someone who understands, they wouldn't repeat the same thing in English right after right. It's totally redundant, she said, you know, find ways to translate it otherwise, you know, through context of the scene, through action, through english dialogue of the other person in conversation with that character and so on. And that was really empowering to have, you know, a white woman in her sixties from the big city of Toronto tell me to be proud of the language and let it stand on its own. Right. So I wanted to take that similar approach into Moon of the turning leaves, too. And in my editor, Rick Meyer, of that book, he felt the same way. So it's like, it's tricky, you know, to try to translate it through these different literary devices. But, you know, by and large, I think it works. I know, like, some people would love a glossary or some, some sort of compendium, but I always remind them, you know, like, it is possible to figure out what's going on if you read closely and follow along and also didn't want people, like, to be reading the book and then flipping back and forth, you know, just to. I didn't want to upset the flow of the actual pace of the story. Right.
[00:27:16] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:16] Speaker B: But what I did do, people wouldn't know how to pronounce some of those words if they're unfamiliar with the language. So I put a video on YouTube of how to pronounce, like, the various vowel sounds and all that. So. So if people want to search that, it's just a Nishnabamuan pronunciation guide to moon and the turning leaves. You can find it on YouTube, which.
[00:27:36] Speaker A: Is funny because there's a lot of things, like, when I don't, I do it anyway. Obviously, you have a unique name. You're the first person with your name on a podcast ever. Like, I've had John's and Jake's and all that stuff on the podcast, but, you know, and so you have to, like, the benefit we have that these characters in this book don't have is the Internet. And the idea that I can actually just google how to say something and there's a pronunciation of something or an interview you've been in before or, you know, so on and so forth. And that can get. And I do that with a ton of people. Like, there's people where I'm like, I don't really know how to say that. Lame. So I'm going to go online and try to figure out how to say that name before, and that's just something that everybody should do, but it's really cool. So, like, I would google it, but if it's a video that you made, that would probably come up that says that this is how you say these words, and I will say this book that I'm mentioning. I can't remember the name of that book. The devil that takes you home, Gabriel.
I forget, but sorry. For the author of that book, it's the devil that takes you home. I think of what it was, but now I'm like, what do I do with this little companion book, too? Like, I have a shelf of books, and now I'm like, it was in. I had ended up buying it off at a yard sale, and in the book, it was, like, in the COVID of the book, but it was stretching the hardcover book out and, like, ruining the binding. And so I had to take it out. So now it's, like, on the shelf, and there's this little, like, paperback book next to it, and I'm like, it kind of annoys me. So in the same sense that it's awesome. And also, as a person who's more of a perfecturist on my bookshelf, I'm like, what's this little piece of paper? So. So a digital version of it, like a YouTube video is great, too. It's awesome. So the question really becomes now is when is moon of the budding leaves? No, I'm just kidding. When did the next one come out? No. So you had this book. It came out in October. What's it like also being a canadian author, that a book comes out in the fall and some people get to read it, and then in the winter in the United States, where the rest of us in the United States get to read it. What's that? Is it like, is it nice to have like a two big bushes in that book? Is that what's nice about it?
[00:29:29] Speaker B: Yeah, I like it. You know, the original plan was to have both come out at the same time, but HarperCollins, they were a little behind because they had work stoppage. They had a strike. I don't know if that was the main reason why there was a delay, but it worked out better, in my opinion, because I was so busy up here in Canada in the fall, doing the whole promotional circuit, going on the road and all that. And now that it's come out in the states just this past February, I'm relatively unknown in the states. So that's kind of comforting, too, because there hasn't been that huge sort of media push and all that, like, up here in Canada.
So it's like a lot more relaxed and it's interesting to see what the pickup is, you know, and really, you know, engaging with, you know, the podcast community, the Sci-Fi fantasy community and so on has been super awesome. And I see those areas of literature being a lot stronger in the states. So to be like, part of those conversations is a huge honor. Man, it's really cool because it's a different sort of approach to, I think, media coverage than up here in Canada. So it feels like a whole other realm, to be honest, but an exciting one, too.
[00:30:51] Speaker A: It's funny, too, because you see a mixture, if you go to something like Goodreads or something like that online with some of these review websites, there's a mixture of people who read it from Canada and mixture of people who read it, you know, from the United States. And it was kind of funny, too, because I got my quote unquote, advanced, you know, netgalley reading thing. But I'm like, advanced. The book's been out in Canada for months. I don't like, there's not really advance, but I mean, like, it's funny in that sense. Like, I'm like I'm reading the book that someone can just buy on the shelf in Canada right now, but it does. It is cool like that. It's almost like because I'm guessing it's hardcover now. I'm guessing you're gonna get a paperback release at some point and that will be a third push of a book, too. So you mean like you have this. Yeah. Canadian release and then you have your United States release and then you'll potentially have a paperback release at some point. And that's another push for the book in that sense. I mean, I recommend this book is beautiful in hardcover, so I do recommend people buy it in hardcover, but thanks. I do like that. I don't know if they're all like this with the texture on Moon or the crest of snow on. This paperback book is cool. It's got like a. I don't know, rough texture to it.
[00:31:52] Speaker B: Yeah, I love it too. It's great package.
[00:31:54] Speaker A: Pretty cool.
I know. I'm not a big fan of the fact that they're different sizes, but that's.
Talk about the shelf. No.
So it's post apocalyptic. It's dystopian.
There's elements in my mind for both of them. If we talk both of them, because I do recommend people read both of them. You don't have to. Like we mentioned off the top, you can read just the first novel or the second novel. They're both available.
But it's worth reading all of them. They're not like you're not Stephen King over here. You don't have 700 page books, thousand page books. These are attainable books that the thriller aspect in there, there's horror elements, but there's a lot of heart. That's the big thing, I think, behind the whole thing, I think. And that's, I think something that comes with some sort of dystopian novels, too is that there's one thing that people, they do. A lot of those do have is some heart in there. Like this family is trying to survive and this community is trying to survive. So I do think there's a little bit for everybody in these books. And that's why I think that there's, like I said, there is this thriller aspect or horror aspect of it where there is this. I mean, everything is post apocalyptic. Dystopian has some of those in it. And then there's heart and there's culture and there's something for everybody in them. I do recommend that everybody reads both of them, but in order. But you could also do the Star wars thing. We read the second book and then be like, I wonder where these people came from, and then read the first. Right?
[00:33:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I heard from somebody who did that and yeah, they like that, that sort of entry into the story, too. And I think that's super interesting.
[00:33:23] Speaker A: And I do, I will say right now, I don't want to recommend the moon in the crest of snow is a better prequel to moon and the train leaves than the Star wars prequels were to Star wars.
That wasn't a dig at moon in the crested snow. Yeah, it is there. So now you. Are you done now? Is this done? Is you going to officially say it now that you're done with the Moon series? Or is this, is there now talk about potentially a third book? You don't have to give anything away.
[00:33:51] Speaker B: But yeah, yeah, no, I said I was done after the first one and here we are talking about the second one. Right. So I better not say that this time around I should leave the door open just in case it happens. I'm not working on it right now, but maybe in five, six years time I might come back and look at what a third book could be.
And my editor, Rick gave me a really cool idea for a sort of adjacent story, not necessarily a sequel, but in the same world. And that really intrigued me. Yeah. In a few years, I'll take a look at my next steps because if the people want it, yeah. You know, I should try hard to give it to them. Right. Because that's why we're here today talking about the second one. But for the time being, I do need to take a bit of a step away from this world because it's been almost ten years that I've been in this sort of post apocalyptic, post blackout world in my mind, you know, creatively. So I'd like to write something a little more light hearted and maybe a little. Little comedic before I get back bit into it.
[00:34:55] Speaker A: Yeah, that's what my wife does every once in a while. She's like, reads back to back thrillers or something like that. And she's just like, I need something where, like, I'm safe in my home. I need like a rom.com, like something to, like, just cleanse the clown. I'm like, no, give me the next horror book. Give me something gritty. Give me something like, I have to stay up at night. No, I can see that. I completely see that. And I think people are into the world building ideas. Like, there's, there's definitely, you know, with Marvel Cinematic Universe and DC and these different things people do, like, this world building. So, like, if you were to make something that's adjacent to it, but in the same world, I think people would be happy. That would, that would make those people clamoring for a third book excited and happy. So, I mean, if you end up going that route, that does make sense.
[00:35:31] Speaker B: And that, that helped write the second one because all the backstory was there, all the world was set up, and I didn't have to do that additional lifting because there was a foundation already there, and I was like, yeah, of course I should explore this because I've done a lot of the work already, you know?
[00:35:47] Speaker A: Yes, exactly. So, I mean, I think they're great. I think they're awesome. I think I'm excited. I'm now a fan of yours now. Anything you do or write, I will be. I'll be picking up and reading, which exciting in that sense. And I think a lot of people who read these books will be. I think there's this, you know, I'll tell you right now, your ratings are not the truth behind the book, meaning that, like, don't all people shouldn't always rely on what your goodreads or your Amazon review ratings are or whatever like that. But this second book's getting some, some hype, I'll tell you that much. It's surprising, honestly, because I like the first book so much, moon of the Crest of Snow, that I'm surprising that a second. Your second book actually has a higher rating right now.
[00:36:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:36:26] Speaker A: So, yeah, it's pretty funny, but, uh, we, uh. I loved it. I'm excited. Uh, and so I had my local bookstore, uh, carried it. Uh, I don't think they actually carried, um, we're, like, planning on carrying. I don't know if it was. There's so many books out there, I didn't think it just cracks. Um, but when I was like, can you bring this book in? And they brought some extra copies in, so I was actually excited.
[00:36:47] Speaker B: That's awesome.
[00:36:48] Speaker A: Here in Maine, we're a small community, so I'm excited for that. But you can. There's an audiobook, too. Am I right about that, or is it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's an audiobook on that. And if you, if people, I don't know if it's available where it's available, but Libreo FM is a great spot for people to do it because you can support local bookstores in that sense. And I believe both these books are available on bookshop.org too. So check those out on there because you can support your local bookstores. But I will always say that in the end, the authors are the most important thing. So buy it wherever you can get it new. Like if people want to buy on Amazon, buy it on Amazon because at least that shows that, you know, HarperCollins and canadian publisher that you are worth investing into. So just buy the book. Don't, don't. Or rent it or get it from your library, but don't not buy it because you don't want to support a big conglomerate. You know, just in the end you do get money for, and the book publisher does get a sold book. So, you know, buy it wherever. But if you can support local support or local bookstore.
[00:37:46] Speaker B: Yeah, totally agree with you.
[00:37:48] Speaker A: But so, you know, as we. I want to, I want to, I don't want to go too long here where we got things to do and people to see and things like that. But I hate this. I don't know what this new Zoom thing is.
[00:37:58] Speaker B: I see it.
[00:37:58] Speaker A: I did it earlier. I did the, like a different podcast. I did the like a thumbs up and it showed a big thumbs up up here. I got to turn that off. It was like celebration here. I'm glad. My thought was like, can you imagine if that happened you, when we were talking about like someone passing. Yeah, like you're talking about someone dying. And also these balloons came up behind me. You're like, what is going on?
So you're, are you working? Are you writing right now? Currently, like on an actual, like something else, the next project you mentioned, something potentially comedy or something like that. Is that what you're working on now or is it.
[00:38:29] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm getting that started. You know, the very, very basic, straightforward sort of comedic story about a day in the life of a reserve on the day of a big bingo jackpot a couple weeks out from Christmas. You know, I just want to get that out there to see how, how, you know, I do it or to see what kind of audience it gets. But there have been a couple of, I guess, horror opportunities. I've had K Gadans press, which is this indigenous press up here in Canada. They have a horror anthology coming out. So I just submitted a short story to that.
And most recently, there's the never whistle at night anthology of dark and indigenous literature came out last fall, too. And I have a short story in that. So, yeah, I have had some horror opportunities which have been awesome, because, you know, I. I want to hone those skills a little bit, and, yeah, so that's it. You know, in just trying to keep it as, like, versatile as possible, you know, stretch out whatever storytelling resources I have, and I think, try to tap into different communities. You know, it's been a huge privilege for me to have these opportunities so far, and I just want to try to keep that momentum going.
[00:39:41] Speaker A: That's awesome. And so you're going to write books for a living for a while now, right? That's what your plan is, right? Stories, write things?
[00:39:47] Speaker B: Yeah, for. For a little while. I'll ride the wave as long as it carries me. Right. So we'll see how it goes.
[00:39:53] Speaker A: But it's like I said, there's other important things, and you got kids, you got family, all that stuff, too. So, obviously, uh, they come, uh, come first anyway. But, yeah, so we're. We're all excited. I think there's a lot of people who are on board for anything you want to do next in the future, so keep up the good work. So moon of the crust of snow, available now as well. That came out a number of years ago, and then you have moon of the turning leaves, which is the sequel, which is available now as well, came out in February in the United States and in October of last year in Canada. So it's available now. And you should buy it. Everybody should buy it wherever it's sold, however you want to read it, listen to it, whatever I think. So I'm guessing you agree.
[00:40:29] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:40:30] Speaker A: Please check it out if you can buy it. And tell a friend, if you want to buy it, let a friend borrow it, whatever you need to do.
[00:40:37] Speaker B: Someone should feel free just to share it, you know, just spread the word however you can.
[00:40:42] Speaker A: Exactly. I really appreciate you taking out the time to come on here and talk your novels and so much more on here. And then also, you know, side note, thank you for rescheduling because of, obviously, personal issues. But, you know, we'll get you back on again in the future. We'll talk some other stuff and talk what you're doing next. Sounds good.
[00:40:58] Speaker B: Oh, I'd love to. Yeah. Justin, thanks a lot for this opportunity. I really enjoyed our conversation, and I appreciate you taking the time to read the books, and, yeah, hopefully we can chat again sometime in the future.
[00:41:09] Speaker A: Sounds good to me. Thank you so much.
[00:41:12] Speaker B: Take care. Thanks.
