[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to the Capes and Tights podcast right here on Capesandtights.com I'm your host, Justin Soderbergh. This episode is once again brought to you by our friends at Galactic Comics and collectibles. At Galactic Comics and Collectibles.com we welcome Saratoga Schaeffer to the program to talk about their novel, Serial Killer support group, which is available at bookstores everywhere. We talked the book, the creation process, Saratoga, Sober Living, and so much more, as well as their upcoming novel, Traditional Wife, which is available next year. And we'll find out more about that in the future. But before you listen, follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, bluesky, threads, all those places you can rate reviews. Subscribe over on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you find your podcasts. You can also find so much more information, opinions, reviews, and so much more
[email protected] but this is author Saratoga Schaeffer talking Serial Killer support group. Enjoy, everyone.
Welcome to the podcast. Welcome to the podcast. How are you today?
[00:01:06] Speaker B: I'm good. How are you?
[00:01:07] Speaker A: I'm doing wonderful. Right? My migraine now makes me so I'm not gonna be able to speak correctly through this whole thing.
I'm glad you were able to take time out of your busy schedule to chat with us here about your book and so much more. And I truly am happy you're here at the podcast. So welcome.
[00:01:24] Speaker B: Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm excited.
[00:01:26] Speaker A: Absolutely. You seem like you've been busy recently, huh?
[00:01:29] Speaker B: I have definitely been busy recently. Yeah. I. The book came out a couple weeks ago, which has been exciting, and I've had launch events, but I'm also right in the middle of developmental edits for my next book, so I'm on deadline as well. And I also work full time, and I'm trying to renovate a house by the end of next month, so. So there's a lot happening. It's exciting, but stressful.
[00:01:57] Speaker A: I mean, you guys all make it seem so easy, you know? Like, it's. It's, you know, being a. Being a published author is just the easiest thing in the world, isn't it?
[00:02:05] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. Yeah, I know. I feel like it backfires sometimes because people are like, oh, my gosh, why'd this take so long? It's like, because this is a whole journey and a lot goes into it, and you just tend to see the highlight reel on social media.
[00:02:21] Speaker A: So it's funny, too, because it seems like. And I get. I don't have a published novel, but, like, what it seems like is too. It seems like up to a certain point, you're writing, you're editing, you're doing all that stuff. And then all of a sudden, there's like, a slight lull before publication date. And then once publication date arrives, you're just like, you know, she just hits the fan. You're just going, going, going, going. And then it's like, cool, I'll get to rest a little bit. And then you're like, oh, I got to write. And then I gotta release the next novel. Cause there's never a point where you're like, you gotta do that next thing. Cause all of us as fans of yours are like, not only do we want the next big thing for you, we want you to be successful, but we want the next. We want your next books. Like, I'm done with Serial Killer support group now. I want traditional wife. Let's go.
[00:03:03] Speaker B: I know. I'm actually on the same wavelength where, like, I very much hop from project to project. So, like, in my mind, Serial killer support group is, like, completely over, even though, like, I should be promoting it. And it's out there, but I'm like, all right, onto the next one. What am I doing next? What am I writing next? Can we make publishing move faster to help my need to, like, produce things all the time? No, we can't. So there's a lot of hurry up and wait in this industry, which has been a very fun challenge in learning how to be patient and mindful, which is a little bit of a struggle, but I'm getting a little better at it.
[00:03:40] Speaker A: I mean, so. Speaking of that, so what. What steered you towards? I mean, you. You. You're. You're an avid reader. You like to read novels as well. But, like, what steered you to wanting to write a novel in the first place, now that you've been into it and going, this is a crazy thing to do. What made you think about doing this crazy thing?
[00:03:57] Speaker B: Yeah, well, if we go all the way back. I started writing or telling stories when I was a kid. I'm dyslexic, so I read kind of late, and once I did sort of figure it out and made it make sense for my brain, I could not be stopped. And I started doing my own stuff. I went to a public school in Brooklyn, and they were very into creative writing, so I did a lot of creative short stories. They had, like, a poetry magazine they would do every year. So I started with poetry. And that's kind of always been like, a through line for me. And Then I wrote my first novel, I guess you could call it when I was in middle school, about a dragon that murdered another dragon. And that was kind of like my first foray into that. And then I didn't really seriously start thinking about sitting down and writing a novel and being like, I'm going to try to get this published until after college. And then that was when that sort of journey started. And then that was a very long process because Serial Killer Support Group is not the first book I've written. It's like the seventh book I've written it that just happened to be the one that finally got published. So it's always been there. But I got more serious about it when I was older and especially after I got sober.
[00:05:21] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, which that would make sense too, there. I mean, there's a lot more.
Yeah, I don't know, it seems like the similar journey, but different.
Similar steps you take with different journey, I would say for a lot of authors that are out there. I mean, do you think these other, say, six novels that you have, there are ones that one day might see the light of day, or is it just basically like, that was my warmup run and now from here on out, I'm going to write new novels?
[00:05:45] Speaker B: Yeah, I think some of them were sort of novels that had to be written just for me to figure out how to write a novel and to understand, you know, technique and skill and just how to do it and how to edit. There are a few of them that I would like to return to one day. I tend to be very forward focused, though, so I have trouble going back and being like, oh, I'll play around with this old one. I'm like, no, I want the fresh new thing and I want to create something that I want right now. So I have kind of played around with a few older pieces, but in general, I'm. I'm usually looking for the next thing, but never say never, so.
[00:06:29] Speaker A: Well, when you're that, you know, New York Times bestselling author years from now and they have a collection of stories that you have unreleased because you're trying to work on the next thing and so on and so forth, that's when some of these might come out, right?
[00:06:40] Speaker B: Yeah, we'll see. I mean, even just from Serial Killer to the book I wrote now, I was like, oh, Serial Killer Support Group is not at the same level of writing as this new book. And like, so I'm. I'm a little scared to look at the older books and be like, oh, God, this is Trash.
[00:06:57] Speaker A: Well, I recently talked to a guy named Chris Conrad who, Who is a comic book writer, and he wrote the book that just recently came out. His comic book that just recently came out was one that he wrote in high school. Like a comic book that the story itself was written in high school. Obviously has had iterations and changes and things like that over the years, but now he's like, in his 30s, and he's like, yeah, finally this story that I wrot in high school, it's actually coming out. So I want the monster or the dragon murdering a dragon story to eventually come out. Saratoga.
[00:07:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't. I would not say no to that. I mean, maybe that's something I do down the road. It's. It's handwritten in a composition notebook, so a lot would have to change, but that would be fun to kind of revisit.
[00:07:40] Speaker A: That would be great. And so. So you had a journey, and this is where it's going with Serial Killer Support Group, which, first of all, the title alone, I think is what draws a lot of people. You know, there's definitely something about titles that. That do something's Killing the Children is a comic book series by James Tynan that just like, like drives people to the actual series. This is the same similar thing. Obviously you've had other novel, other horror, thriller novels that have similar titles that have drawn people in as well. But this is like one of those things that I honestly think I stumbled upon on my netgalley. So I was on netgalley, and every day I go on there and I just check to see what novels are out there. And a lot of them I pass over because either, you know, I'm a designer by trade, so either the COVID doesn't draw or the title's just like.
I passed over it because the title was just something that was so ambiguous or whatever. But this one, like both the COVID itself and the title made me go, I need to know more about this book. And I took a chance on it, and I was so happy I did. I was so happy I did. And so I think that both the title and the COVID you know, don't judge a book by its cover, but let's be honest, that cover and the title is definitely going to draw people towards this novel for sure.
[00:08:48] Speaker B: Thank you. Yeah, I'm really happy with how that all turned out. My publisher has been really awesome about it because sometimes as an author, you don't get a ton of control. So you don't get control over your cover or your title. But I Think they immediately saw maybe the benefit of keeping a title called Serial Killer Support Group.
And they also were really collaborative with me with the COVID as well. And I had a very specific sort of style in mind. I asked for something that was red and black and white, and I wanted something graphic. I did not want sort of like the vague profile of a woman in darkness looking off into the distance. Like, I had something in my mind. And they like, completely were able to bring that out. And so I love it. I love the title, I love the COVID And that's been really exciting is seeing people kind of like connect with that, because that's one of my favorite parts. So it's very cool to be like, have this validation of other people being like, yeah, this part. This is really awesome. And I just. It popped out at me.
[00:09:54] Speaker A: And being a new author, I think that's one of those things that getting this, you know, new author to people, I mean, obviously you've been. She's been writing for a little while, but like, your first book that's out there, like, this is. The COVID does draw. Someone goes to a Barnes and Noble and sees the COVID sees the title. It's like a. There's a line of things to do. You see the title in the COVID then you read the description and so on. So we read the plot. You read the, you know, summary about what's going on in the book. So there is a line that people do. People don't obviously just pick up a book and start reading the middle of a book. See. Oh, yeah, this is a pretty well written book. Like, there's a line of things that people do. And so then you hear when you read the plot of what's going on inside this novel, what is your elevator pitch to people if they don't know what serial support. Serial killer support group is?
[00:10:35] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, so the great thing about the title is that, like, that's the.
[00:10:38] Speaker A: Pitch pretty much explains it.
[00:10:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
Yes. But usually I'll just tell people it's about a woman who infiltrates a support group for serial killers in order to figure out who might have killed her younger sister.
And that's generally my elevator pitch. And then I just say, it's exactly what it sounds like.
[00:10:58] Speaker A: It's fun in the sense that I'm a big fan of books that are, like, straightforward. And then there's a little bit of oddness to it or a different thing to it that makes it a little bit not believable in the sense that, like, you know, a. Serial killers are real. Out there that support groups are real. The idea that there's a support group for serial killers out there is. I want there to be. Honestly, after reading this novel, I kind of like, want to be like, oh, yeah, I definitely want this to be a real thing. But that, that steps me out of the element into more. You know, this is definitely fiction in that sense that. But. But still you kept it grounded in a sense that it could be real. Like, if it was real, this is what it would be kind of be like. And I love that. I thought it was so much fun to like. It made me want to read it and not just be like the thrilling aspect of it, wanting to know what happens next, but really just wanted to be like, what happens if there was a circular, circular support group. And I think you blended that all well together. And I think that's one of those things that people are going to love and gravitate towards, in my opinion, is that idea that it's like a what if almost in the same sense that it's like a great, thrilling story, but it's like a what if this really was a thing.
[00:12:00] Speaker B: Thank you. Yeah, I mean, part of what I wanted to capture there was almost that like, thick slice of life of that what if. Like, yes, I want it to be exciting and fast paced, but I also want to capture what that would be like to sit in one of those meetings and what it might look like and what it might sound like and how disturbing that would be and have that be a really integrated part of the story.
So, I mean, I do think, I know sometimes people that could be a criticism of, like, this isn't believable, it couldn't happen. And I get that. But also, most fiction has some layer of that somewhere. And it's a book. And I think, you know, the COVID and the title makes it very clear what you're going into. Like, you're going into something that maybe is a little like tongue in cheek and not 100% believable. And I think you, you know, shelving that aspect of it and just enjoying it for the story that it is is how you're gonna really get the most out of this book.
[00:13:03] Speaker A: I mean, there's also this.
I live in the genre of thriller, horror, gross stuff, things that kind of make you scared when I have the lights on, things like that. And I'll tell you right now, there is a difference between a novel that you can know that's a little out there in the sense of, like I said, tongue in cheek to that point. That makes it so. It's a little bit more enjoyable in the sense that you can just sit down and read it. And then there's the other side of things where you're, like, scared and you need the lights on and you hear a creek and you're freaked out and that kind of thing. And sometimes that's not as enjoyable. Sometimes it's like it said, it's something to read and the story could be really good. But sometimes you're like, I'm so freaked out about this book that I. Or this novel or this movie or this TV show that makes it less enjoyable. It's a hot wing versus a super hot wing, where it's like, you like the flavor, but sometimes it's just unbearable. And that's something that serial killer support group is in that, you know, because it's in that slight tongue in cheek, unbelievable part of it. Made it go. I can just enjoy this for the story that it is, and I don't have to worry about it actually being real.
[00:14:00] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Where it's, like, entertaining enough. Where you're like, oh, my gosh, what if this did exist? But there's not that, like, thick horror of like, oh, it does exist. And we're examining it and, like, we're gonna get real deep into the darkest parts of it where, like, I play with that a little. But, like, yeah, I hope this doesn't exist in real life. I don't ever want to know.
[00:14:25] Speaker A: Well, who's to say? I mean, who's out there saying this doesn't exist?
You wouldn't know, right? You wouldn't know if this actual group exists. Unless you were a serial killer or you were as smart as your protagonist was in this book to actually get into one and to infiltrate one. But, yeah, I think it's like, one of those things that, like, you don't know. Let's be honest. I would never know.
[00:14:44] Speaker B: Right.
[00:14:45] Speaker A: We don't really know about serial killers until after they're caught mainly. And so, like, why would you know about a support group or not until we figured out by one. That's gonna be one of those, like, headline things where, like, you know, years and years and years down the road was like, sara Togo was right. And they'll find one and be like. And then they'll be investigating you. Like, did you know something?
[00:15:02] Speaker B: I know. Yeah. I mean, a writer's Google search is already a whole mess, and they would just, like, immediately arrest me. It would just be a big problem.
[00:15:11] Speaker A: It's a whole issue there. But Yeah, I mean, so speaking of that, I mean, you mentioned a little bit in this discussion so far about things, but where did you, like, where did this sprint spin off from? Like, did you have an idea years and years and years ago that this was something? Or did. I mean, is it. Is there influence from other things that are out there? Like, what makes you want to write a book about serial killers and what their problems are?
[00:15:35] Speaker B: Yeah, well, a couple years ago I was reading a book or an article or something like that, and there was a throwaway line about how there aren't support groups for murderers that we know of. And that was sort of the trigger for me of like, well, what if there were? And what if specifically there was a support group for serial killers? And I tend to be a kind of a high concept thinker, so I'll start with that big picture and then kind of find the story from there. So that was the jumping off point for me. And then the rest of it kind of just naturally fell into place as I started to think about what that would look like and how characters were interact with each other and why someone who wasn't a serial killer would be able to get into something like that. So that was kind of the jumping off point. And the serial killer, I guess, concept in itself is something that I've always been, I guess, peripherally interested in. I am not. I wouldn't consider myself one of those, like, true crime aficionados who's constantly consuming stuff like that and is really, really engaged with it. But the psychology behind it I find fascinating, both from, like a serial killer and someone who consumes that content, I think is very, very interesting. So that was also part of what I was thinking about when I was drafting and when I was trying to figure out, okay, what would a story like this look like?
[00:17:10] Speaker A: It's a great. I'll tell you right now, if anybody wants a little bit of insight into how things move along in your life in these books and things like that, your Instagram is a great place to be, I will tell you that right now. I think it's authentic. And that's what. It's well designed, well done. Like, you do a good job with it in first place, but, like, it's authentic. Like seeing your reaction to your cover reveal, seeing your reaction to when you found out the news that you'll be published, you have a published novel and things like that. All that stuff is just. It's fascinating to watch. It makes me feel connected to you in a level that someone else, some other authors out there feel like a little distant or shy away from. I mean, social media is accessible as it is, but you do have your social media set up in a way where you have to be following you, I believe. Right. To get to comment and things like that. Which helps a little bit on that side of weeding people out, you know, if they don't, if they're going to, at least, if they're going to crap on things, at least make them follow you. So your followers.
[00:17:59] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:17:59] Speaker A: Right. I mean, that's, that's the theory. No, no, but I say it's, it's authentic and I think that's what's great about it. But the other part of that is, is that Cira. Is that her name? Cira Saira? Yeah, Saira Sarah. Okay. Saira is, is sober in this book. And that is a journey and a life that you live right now as well in your life. And so that's is a great thing. Well, how important was it that you made your protagonist, your main character sober in this book? You know, whereas it's not seen that often in this genre. Thriller, horror. What was really important about that to you?
[00:18:32] Speaker B: Yeah, it was very important.
I so kind of going back to the social media thing, I started out in the social media sobriety space. I kind of became, I guess you would call like a micro influencer or whatever. I don't love the idea of influencers, but if you're going to be an influencer, I think doing it for an alcohol free lifestyle is an awesome thing to do.
So that was kind of, that was my first real sort of like relationship with social media and how I sort of learned to put myself out there like that and be honest and show that sort of authentic side of myself. Because I think sobriety still to this day has a little bit of like that taboo there of like, well, you shouldn't talk about that and you know, that's private. Keep it to yourself. And that of course, is one of the reasons why we have a lot of alcohol misuse in our society.
So knowing that and knowing that, I had this really amazing community online of people and you know, they were all mostly aware because at the same time I was posting about my sobriety, I was posting about writing and about this dream. I had to like eventually be a traditionally published author and all of that. So when I was writing this, I've had other sober characters or characters who, as I was going through my own process, who are clearly also struggling with alcohol. So when I wrote this, it was a few years into my sobriety. And I wanted to represent a version of sobriety that I don't feel we see too often, especially in genre fiction. So Saira, for example, she doesn't call herself an alcoholic. She doesn't go to aa. She's never been to rehab. She just identified some drinking patterns and habits in herself that she didn't like. And she was like, I'm quitting.
And that, I think, is really important, a For representation, for people to see. To be able to see themselves maybe in a book or even in TV or film or whatever that maybe isn't always there. And then also to just have a version of sobriety that is maybe a little bit more accessible or is something that people are not used to seeing. Because I think, especially in genre fiction, we tend to see one of two things. One, you see the unreliable narrator. She's usually a white CIS woman who is blacking out every night and has clearly a drinking problem. But it's never really addressed, and it's just there to sort of be a plot device. Or you have, like, the grizzled old man detective, and he's, like, in aa and he's still struggling with his sobriety on and off or whatever. And I kind of feel like there's not really anything in between that. And Syra was supposed to be a representation of that gray space and of that spectrum of sobriety, because it's not just AA or nothing. It's not just alcoholic or nothing. There's a lot to sort of be aware of in that space. So I was very intentional about that whole crafting of her character and wanting that to be realistic and then also reflective of some of my own experiences.
[00:21:58] Speaker A: Well, I mean, you write what you know, in a sense. Like, I think it's the best thing. Why is there are a lot of novels from authors about authors? It's because, like, if you live in a. In that space all the time, it's like, well, I guess I'm gonna talk about a guy who's out in the woods somewhere writing a novel and then gets attacked. Like, it makes sense to do that. And so you write what you know. In that sense, I will say I love the fact that it's present, but you didn't write a serial killer sober story, if that makes any sense, like, to some people out there who that may. I hate to say, may turn. The fact that it's a sober character is the fact that, I mean, let's be honest, there's a bunch of books probably about sober characters where they Just don't talk about alcohol. But, like, there's. These characters were just purposefully done this way, but also not in the way that you're like. It's like, oh, my God, I get it. You're sober. That kind of thing in the book. And so I think that's a great way of doing it. There's. There's stories. I mean, one of the things that I've always respect about Stephen Graham Jones is. Is Stephen putting his Native American culture in the book, but not to the point where you're like, he's trying to force it. It's like, I'm just writing. This is the story about my history and my family and my lineage. And you believe in that, and you go, okay, this is cool. Same thing here. I feel like when you get to know and you're reading this and you're like, oh, I could see, you know, Saratoga's writing something that they believe in and that they live, it makes a little bit more sense to my opinion, and it's a nice balance in there. It's not overwhelming, if that makes any sense.
[00:23:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And that was also intentional. In the same way that I deal with Cyrus queerness as well, I. I went into it with that same. Like, I did not set out to write a book about a queer character. I did not set out to write a book about a sober character. It's just that this character who's going through this crazy thing happens to be queer and sober.
[00:23:43] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:23:44] Speaker B: And it's this idea of making it more normative and normalized, and it's not such. It doesn't have to be such a big deal. If it is a big deal, that's great, and I support that, too. But I also wanted to sort of reflect the way I live within both of those things and have that relate to me in a way where, like, I wish that I, when I was younger, saw more characters like this or were, you know, kind of along those lines in genre fiction, because that's something that I think genre fiction can lack sometimes. So that was also very intentional in going in of being like, I'm gonna add these things to her character, but I don't want it to be her identity. It's just part of who she is.
[00:24:27] Speaker A: Yep. And I respect that, and I respect the fact that also that it changed something. It made a little bit something different for me. And like I said, in a person who reads a lot of genre fiction, like, it adds that. It changes things up a little bit. It gives me a little bit different pace than something. And you know, if people listen to this podcast and people know my day job is actually working for a brewery, so they're doing full disclosure there. I do work for brewery as a designer. But I will say I love the your journey. I love seeing this online because there is a place for this. And I think that one of the things I related to someone the other day in the office about not just you, but other people who are. Who live vibrantly sober on the Internet, which is a great thing, is why can't you do that? Why is it frowned upon? Why is it a taboo subject for you? For the same reason that we have people who follow our Instagram as a brewery that post pictures of them drinking a new beer or loving a new beer or things like that. Like, that's respected and thumbed up and liked and oh, I love that stuff. But then when you do the opposite side of that thing is it's more of a taboo thing about how I'm proud to be sober and these people are proud to drink alcohol. It's like one of those weird things and I don't understand it. And I was very happy to see that and then see that it was represented in your book as well.
[00:25:43] Speaker B: Yeah, I think a lot of that comes from perhaps individuals own relationships with alcohol and drinking. Because, you know, generally when, you know, and I've since I was in that sober online space for years and years, I. I'd seen kind of all of it and I had all of the responses and that going back to what you said earlier, that's part of why I have my comments limited because I used to get some really intense, hateful things on my page. But I think it's more of like a little bit of a defensive mechanism. Like my, my. If my sobriety is upsetting you or if my sobriety makes you feel like I'm judging you, then I think that's something you need to maybe personally look at. Because me just making the best, healthiest choice for myself should not have any bearing on your life whatsoever. Like, and if it does, that's the clue that maybe you need to check in with yourself there.
[00:26:42] Speaker A: And you're not. You're also one of those things that in the same sense I'm trying to as a person, post a picture of your book on the Internet to be like, you should read this book in the same sense that you're doing that with sobriety as well. And the idea that maybe someone will see this and pick up my book or, you know, like, it's like. Or a book in general. If I recommend a book, I'm like, hey, you really should read this, you know, you know, book out by so and so. And someone's like, cool, I'll go pick it up. Maybe one day you're same side of the other side of that would be like, oh, I am sober X member of days. And someone might go, well, maybe I should look into this. So like, I don't. It's a weird space to be in for that, for the Internet in general right now. Like I said, it's a hard place to navigate as a whole. But yeah, I wanted to know why and that makes sense. You're right. People have to look inwards a little bit to get why they have a problem with you. Being so open about does seem obvious, but maybe it doesn't strike as obvious to some people. But yeah, I love, like I said, I love seeing that and I have respect for everybody. I chose to be in this industry. I'm a designer. I do, you know, respect alcohol in the sense that there is a place where there's too far too much and all that stuff. But I respect the people who are open about it on the other side of it too. And that's we have a hop water that we make that's specifically designed for the people who was a big fan of our, our beverages before and then decided that their lifestyle didn't believe in that. So we're like, well, we still love those people. We respect those people. We love the fact that they were once our customers, buying our stuffs and going to our bar. Here's an option for you that, you know, uses the same hops and the same water and all that stuff, but it's zero alcohol and alcohol free. We also deal with a lot of people who are in fitness and love to bike and all this stuff. And it's like, here's the deal, you can't do that well if you're drinking alcohol on a regular basis. So yeah, I was just like I would love to when I discovered that you were sober on that too. And I was like all wanted to talk to you a little bit about this on the podcast as well. And the fact that I've done beers both of the podcast with guests before, we actually had done beers with them, like collaboration beers. But also the idea that I love the idea that you're sober and do you, do you look for. I see when you're at things, do you look, do you still enjoy drinking a wine that's non alcoholic or Is that something you try to shy away? This is just a jer question. I don't. I just. Some of this bird on when I was talking.
[00:29:01] Speaker B: Yeah, I. So you mentioned hot water. I love hot water. I love that you guys make that. That's amazing. I, for the most part, I love having alternative, like any drinks and things that I can. I mean, it's just so boring to go to an event or a bar or whatever and like the thing they have available for me is like water or lukewarm soda.
[00:29:23] Speaker A: Like I have a polar seltzer.
[00:29:26] Speaker B: I do love seltzer. Like I will always come back to seltzer, but it's n. And I think with the rise of like wellness and sobriety being a little bit more mainstream, it's been wonderful to see more mocktails and zero proof things on menus. All these brands coming out with non alcoholic beers. Amazing. I love that.
Personally, the. The only things I tend to stay away from are non alcoholic red wines.
And I'm not a huge like spirit free spirit person. Like, I don't really do any of those. I'll have it. If it's in like a nice bar and there's like something mixed with it and it's like a classy mocktail, I'll do that. But I do tend to avoid like the stuff that I feel like might be triggering. And that's just something I've personally learned throughout my journey and my process. And like every person is different and I know people who don't touch any of the alternative things at all because it's just too triggering. And that's totally valid too. So it's one of those things where it's like each person is different and whatever works for you, as long as it keeps you in the path that you're on, go for it. So I mean, I love it. I love having all these options. It's great.
[00:30:40] Speaker A: I love you. So the alcohol free spirits that they've created or hair in my mouth, alcohol free spirits, it's like, it's great. I've always been a person who was like, I didn't like. Other than the fact that it's intoxicating, like that was what I was actually looking for. I don't drink. I work for Berger and I don't drink that often as it is. As it is now I have two young kids and a family to raise. So it's one of those things that it does take away from that as well as my mother in law and father in law, both sober. And so like Obviously family functions and things like that, we just don't drink at because of that. It makes it easy space for you to go, I don't need a drink here. But I've always hated the taste of alcohol, like actual alcohol. So to me I'm like, why would I, Why would I. Or like tequila or any of these things. I'm like, why would I have a drink that has that? Why don't I just have it minus the tequila? Like, why can't I just drink it that way? And I understand there's flavors and people like that and so on and so forth, but yeah, my mother, father in law, they, they are sober and they enjoy a hop water. And my wife was, was wondering whether or not that would be triggering in a sense and so on and so forth, but they just, they drink it no problem and they have no issue with it either. Everybody's different in that sense and everybody makes their own decisions and, and you really should know, like you mentioned what's best for yourself, like, obviously. But I also understand, like, if you go to a party and someone is like, would you like an alcoholic beverage? And you say no, you shouldn't be like, well, how come? And then to bring that whole part into it, either let someone just say no. I can just say no. As someone who does drink alcohol, I have every right to. I will be yelled at. No one who question me. But because you're sober, someone will question you.
[00:32:10] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a whole thing. It's like all a process that you have to learn. And like, so, like the first year of my sobriety too, like, I was very careful and I was, I, I avoided all that stuff. Like, I didn't, I didn't try any of the NA drinks, I didn't, you know, I basically just drank a ton of seltzer and that was it. And then as I, I felt better and felt more confident, I was like, all right, like, let me try this or let me see what that works. And you know, that, that helped me kind of like figure out where my boundaries were. So it's all just like a learning process. And you are going to get those people who are like, well, why? And like, can't you just have one?
[00:32:48] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
[00:32:49] Speaker B: Who are like, personally affronted by you being like, no, thanks, I'm shrinking. And you know, everyone deals with that differently. But I mean, I, I very early on, because I was, you know, saying it online very loud and proudly. I just started doing that in real life too. And I was like, I don't Know what to tell you if you have a problem with this. Like, that's on you and wish you the best.
[00:33:12] Speaker A: I don't drink mixed drinks. So if someone get a question, I'm. I don't drink mixed drinks. So like, I'm a beer drinker. So you're going to villainize me because I don't drink mixed drinks? No, but you would villainize me if I just didn't drink alcohol in the first place. Yeah, it's a whole. It's a whole thing. But is this something that now, like, obviously you said, like you mentioned having a queer character, having a sober character. Is this something that now is. If it fits the story moving forward, it might work. Or is this something that you'll try to. Try to actually shoehorn in, but put into stories?
[00:33:44] Speaker B: Yeah, I was just gonna say I will never be the type to shoehorn something in for like the sake. Obviously I want representation in my work, but I'm not gonna put something in there that doesn't work for the story for the sake of representation because I feel like that's not being authentic to that representation.
So I, in general, I love writing stuff with queer characters. I'm not a big romance person, but if there is romance in my books, it's almost always sapphic. Like I'm not super interested in male, female, Roman. Yes, but yeah, I mean, in general that kind of stuff tends to crop up in my work. But I will not sort of put it in there for no reason, if that makes sense. And like the next book I have coming out, there is not a queer character in there because it didn't really make sense for the story. And I also wanted to, you know, when you're dealing with underrepresented people and communities, you also want to be careful with how you're using that in your book. And you don't want it to come across in a way that could be harmful. So that was another reason why it was like, okay, it doesn't make sense for the story. And I also feel like if I put it in this story, it could potentially be harmful. So I'm not gonna do that. So it's gonna be like a project by project basis. But in general, yeah, I mean, I'm very interested in always having representation in my work, but I'm not gonna do it in a way that is going to be hurtful or in a way that just like doesn't make sense for the story.
[00:35:21] Speaker A: Which is great to hear because, I mean, let's be honest, your goal is to put the best possible story onto a page. And that's. If that includes both those, you know, titles of sorts that a queer character or a sober character, then great. It fits. It's awesome. But if it doesn't, then that's not the best possible story. Then why would you put the book out in that sense that it's not the best possible story, then it's not gonna be great for you. So Traditional Wife is the book you're working on right now, right? Is that correct?
[00:35:48] Speaker B: Yes. Yep.
[00:35:49] Speaker A: And that is no release date yet?
[00:35:54] Speaker B: Yeah, not. That's public. It's looking like. I mean, it's definitely gonna be next year.
[00:35:58] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:35:58] Speaker B: I'm guessing it'll be around this time next year, but we'll see what the official date is once I have it.
[00:36:06] Speaker A: That's. That's awesome. And then. And then. Do you have a little bit of an idea? Are you telling people what that's about yet, or is it just the title right now?
[00:36:13] Speaker B: Yeah, so it's about, as you might have guessed from the title, so it's called Traditional Wife, and it's about a trad wife influencer. And if anyone who's not aware of what that is, it's sort of like this newish rise of usually younger social media, affluent women who are sort of obsessed with staying home and being homemakers and homesteaders. And it's a return to, quote, unquote, traditional values, especially in relationships. So they stay home, home, they cook, they clean, they take care of the kids. So the premise of this story is a trad wife influencer essentially has a demon baby. And that's sort of the plot.
So it's very. It's very exciting. I. I love this book and I'm very, very excited for people to read it. I think it's going to upset some people, but also in, like, the best possible way. And I think it's something, especially now, especially in the United States, that some people need to read.
[00:37:18] Speaker A: So, yes, it's a weird world we live in right now to the point where I don't understand why I doom scroll on Instagram and things like that, for example. I just don't get it. But there's sometimes where I'm just like, these people just put things on the Internet. They don't care what people think about or hope that people care about. I just don't understand it. To me, I'm like. Like, I keep going. I should really post something on Instagram, like on my personal Instagram. Like, but what. What would I post? I don't understand, like, it was a cute picture of my son in his underwear yesterday with sunglasses on. But I'm like, I don't want to put that. I shared it with some family members, but that's okay, cool, I'm done. I don't. I don't need everybody else to see this photo. If someone asks, hey, is there something stupid your kid did? I'd be like, hey, look at this. But, like, other than that, I'm like, I don't need to put it out there. Like, we had an offer accepted on a new house a month ago or, yeah, three weeks ago, and I put that up there. Offer accepted. And that was it. It was a black picture, black screen with offer accepted on it, and that was it. I'm like, o. I guess that's my social media right now. But yeah, it's a mixing in that social media aspect of it is probably going to be something we see more often than not in the future. And I'm glad you're doing it on this side of it. Thanks to it. It sounds phenomenal. I mean, if I, you know, if I like it and you like anywhere, like, I like serial killer support group, I'm going to be pumped that I hope people do that. So. But serial killer support group is available now, though. That's the big thing, right? I mean, you can get that now on the shelves. Is it. Is it surreal? Is it surreal walking into a store and seeing it on the show?
[00:38:41] Speaker B: Yeah, it's very weird. And I've been getting, like, from, you know, people online and then my friends and my family. I'm getting texts of them finding it in the wild and seeing it in different places. The thing that's, like, really mind blowing is seeing it out next to other authors who I've, like, read or admired for years. And, like, having my book touch, like, a Tana French book is crazy to me and is just, like, mind blowing. So that part has been probably one of, like, the coolest things. But, yeah, it's very surreal. It's still kind of hard to believe. Like, I kind of feel like it's just a big prank and everyone's, like, kind of in on it and they're all in on it. Yeah, they all bought, like, copies from, you know, a Kinko's or whatever, and they're just, like, putting it in places and sending it to me and being like, look at your book. Just. It's very weird.
[00:39:34] Speaker A: That would be amazing if you could, like, 100% tell that it was just a photocopy on the page or like, it's only like taped it to another book. Like, look at this.
[00:39:41] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:39:43] Speaker A: But no, I mean, like I said, I found it surreal for some people and seeing, like I said, your honesty and your transparency of sorts on Instagram and on social media of being excited about this, it rejuvenates and puts a skip in other people's steps, like myself. Honestly, I've what to do and be proud of what you do and be happy with these successes in your lives. And I think that's one of those things that seeing your journey and seeing going back on your Instagram and seeing these videos of you, like, being all excited about things, it's great. And I think that that makes me want to, you know, follow along with you some more and so on and so forth. And this is not, I mean, I will say, you know, there is a quote on the back from my review of your book that has nothing to do with how excited I am about this book.
You know, I've been lucky enough to have a few. It's Bloodshot from Blackstone Publishing has one too. But like, my first was on that Josh Winning book and I thought that was it made my life to have that on the back of there and then continues on with books that I really enjoy, like Serial Killer Support Group. So I'm excited for people to read it. You can grab it bookstores everywhere. I recommend checking out like bookshop.org if you're ordering online, because local bookstores get a cut of that. If you do, you buy it through our website. I get a small portion of that, which helps further the cause of doing the podcast and so on and so forth. So I appreciate that if you do buy it through there, but buy it anywhere. And here's the deal, I'll say this over and over again. You may not want to buy it from massive conglomerate websites, but if you, if you choose between buying it or not buying it, because of that, I tend to stay on the side of buying it. Like, that's a big thing to me. And if you can't afford it, go to look a local library and ask them to grab it. Because that's huge for both people reading it, but also for you guys as authors and as the publisher knows, the more copies there in libraries, the better it is for you.
[00:41:38] Speaker B: Yes, definitely. And I'll also say it's available on all formats, so you can get it hardback, paperback, ebook, or audiobook. The audiobook is really awesome too. So any way you like to consume your books. I have an available option for you.
[00:41:52] Speaker A: That is. Exactly. And that's Libro FM is a good spot. I don't know if it's on there or not. That circular support group. I'm looking it up right now. I believe it is, but. Yes, it is. It is. It is. Who's the Abby? Creighton and Timothy Andreas. Papa. I can't. I don't know people's names. I should have. Should have looked it up ahead of time and found out the pronunciation before I said it on here. But no, it's only nine hours, too. That's not too bad, you know. And I know a lot of people who read it like 1.52 times, so that takes like, you know, you'll do it a couple days just to take it in for reading it. But yeah, I'm super pumped for you and I said, I feel like I've lived this journey along with you ever since I've started following and so on and so forth. So I'm looking forward to what happens with traditional wife and so on. But grab serial Killer support group at bookstores everywhere and support Saratoga and their journey as an author. I really appreciate you coming on and chatting the book with me.
[00:42:45] Speaker B: Thank you so much. This was awesome.
[00:42:47] Speaker A: Appreciate it. Have a good one. Fun.
[00:42:49] Speaker B: You too.
