Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to the Capes and Tights podcast right here on Capesandtights.com I'm your host, Justin Soderbergh. This episode is once again brought to you by our friends over at Galactic Comics and Collectibles. At galactic comics and collectibles.com we welcome Ashley Cullens to the podcast who is an award winning entertainment journalist with over a decade of experience. Ashley began her career as a broadcasting news but quickly jumped to print. Her first book, your favorite scary movie, how the Scream Films Rewrote the Rules to Horror hit shelves, hit shelves on August 19th from Dutton Books. We talked Scream and so much more about this with Ashley. But before you listen to this episode, please follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, bluesky, threads, all those places you can rate, review, subscribe over on Apple, Spotify or wherever you find your podcasts. You can also find us on YouTube and as always you can visit capesandtights.com for so much more, including a review of of this book, your favorite scary movie. But this is author Ashley Cullins talking about the journey of making this book about Scream franchise right here on the Capes and Tights podcast. Enjoy everyone.
Welcome to the podcast. Ashley, how are you today?
[00:01:13] Speaker B: Good, how are you?
[00:01:15] Speaker A: I'm doing wonderful. Doing wonderful. Yeah, it's cooling down. I live in Maine. It's cooling down. It was a little hot for a little while but there, but we're doing well now. It's like 71 right now. Hoping. Yeah, it's, it's, it was been crazy. I don't know. It's been a hot summer. It's been a really hot summer.
[00:01:30] Speaker B: We are currently in Nashville and it is I think 96 today and humid. So I'm very jealous.
[00:01:39] Speaker A: It's been like I was telling someone else, a friend of mine, I'm like, it's, I don't think it's been this hot in a long time in Maine. It's been like, we get our stretches, like a three day stretch here and there of like 95 degree weather or whatever. But I think we've had like three or four of those this summer so far of like two or three days of just really hot weather. And it's not fun.
I don't like it. It's not, it's not something I want to do. But we're not here to talk about the weather. We're here to talk about your new book, your favorite scary movie. I'm not going to say the whole thing over and over and over again. It's a Longer the subtitle to it and stuff. But your favorite scary movie is a pretty easy way to explain this book.
You're deep dive into Scream in the Franchi franchise. That is so I mean let's get started by just you. This is your first book but you've been in journalism and you've been writing in speaking on camera and things like that for a while.
What made you.
Did you. I've been a horror fan since a young kid or what I mean how did your love for Scream start?
[00:02:39] Speaker B: Scream came out when I was like I guess almost old enough for it. Right. Like I probably saw it younger than I should have but I, you know I was a pre teen and it was the 90s. So you know, it's not any worse than the Indiana Jones movies, I don't think.
[00:03:06] Speaker A: No.
[00:03:08] Speaker B: So I saw Scream about a million times and loved it and was obsessed and just generally I did like horror a lot as a, as a teenager especially once I got a little bit older and could go see things in theaters. There's just something fun about being scared, especially when you're that age and you're chasing adrenaline and Scream. What I liked about it then and what I still like about it now is you're not only scared, it's a whodunit. So you're trying to figure it out and it's funny. So you get breaks from the terror. Which to me is necessary for a viewing experience. Like I don't want to sit down and just be like for two hours. I like having layers and experiencing emotions other than fear.
But yeah, I liked, I liked horror a lot as a teenager. I went through a period where I thought I didn't like horror as an adult until I started working on this book and going oh, but you know, I obviously still love Scream and I really love to get out and I like it follows and I like, you know. And there have been more movies since then. Sinners obviously. Although I'm not entirely convinced Sinners is horror. Like that is the like just non genre exceptional.
Heart Eye is really fun. So I do really enjoy horror. There are just certain things that are a little bit less my cup of tea. The things that are just like pure fear.
And so I've learned a lot about that through the course of working on this. And I've also learned that horror people are the best people on the planet. They're just so nice.
[00:04:52] Speaker A: It's so awesome because I read your favorite scary movie about. I would say now it's been about a month and right after that's right after that. But I read a couple other. There was one about Halloween and there was one that I read. It was called why I Love Horror. And there were essays in it from horror authors of why they found their passion and found their career and found their. Their way in horror. And one of the through lines that, I mean, each story was different, but one of the through lines and threads that went through all 18 stories was the community.
And how the horror community as a whole is just like, it doesn't matter who makes the movie, who makes the TV show, who makes the book.
It's like they just want the next good horror story. They just want the next good thing. And then they're sharing with people, hey, I'll let you borrow the book. I'll let you borrow the movie. It's just like this weird thing. And I think the big thing to me is horror. Yes, it's there to scare you at moments and things like that. But there's so many different sub genres to horror, in my opinion. I mean, not. This is not a knock on any other genre, but like romance. It's like romance. There's like sports romance and there's all western romance and things like that. But like, I don't know, there's like horror that has moments of horror in it, but then there's like really funny and there's moments of drama and so on and so forth. So, like, I think that's one of the reasons why I think that's such a great rounded genre and. But yeah, it made me remind me of how much I liked the movie Scream by reading your book, because of that. And I went back and watched. I've actually watched it twice since I read the. I've read your book. Yeah. And then I was actually, before we started talking, I was actually at Scream 2.
I have a TV above me and I was watching Scream 2 on there too.
Which part we stopped at?
Where did I was at? I stopped about halfway through, I think right now. I can't see it now. It's off now. But yeah, Scream 2 is so funny. When they're in the classroom talking about sequels and they're chatting back and forth about how they're not good and so on and so forth. And people bring up the key ones like Godfather Part 2 and T2 and things like that. And I laugh because I'm like, Scream is so good. But Scream 2 is so. Is in that category, in my opinion, like learning those things. I don't think it's better than Scream, but it's one of those ones that holds up. It's like a sequel that actually was worth watching and one of those ones you're not like, the first one was good. I don't need to watch the second one. It's so good in that sense. But it's.
I was Talking to Brian McCauley, the author who wrote a book recently called Breathe In, Bleed out, which is coming out right around this time, that it's been compared to Scream in their solicitations and descriptions of the book because of the fact that it has this like self awareness and slight comedy and things like that. And that's what I loved about Scream. I think Scream is a horror movie for everybody. If you don't like horror movies, I think you'd like this movie. There's moments where you're going to cringe, but there's moments where you're like, okay, this is a good whodunit mystery, and so on and so forth. So I can see why a passion would get into writing this book. But. But there's got to be something. I mean, was it just that the story felt like it needed to be told? Like this behind the scenes thing?
You could be passionate and love something, but like, is there something about Scream specifically that was like, okay, there's enough to hear that it's book worthy.
[00:08:13] Speaker B: Yeah. So like, you know how I am guessing we're probably around the same age, but do you know how like in the 90s, there were all of those stories about like actors and models getting like discovered at the mall?
Like they just got like stumbled upon.
So I feel like the origins of this book are a little bit like that for me.
So ahead of the 25th anniversary of the first movie, I pitched an oral history to the Hollywood Reporter. I was a business editor there.
And I was like, hey, this is coming up. I love this movie. Like, I would love to do this. It was out of my typical beat and I hadn't ever pitched anything like that before, but they said yes. And so I worked on this oral history. And after it came out a few months later, I get this email from a literary agent.
And it's just like the best email I've ever read in my life.
And he convinced me to write a book.
I'd always wanted to write a book. It was always something I saw myself doing at some point.
But I also don't know when I would have taken that first step on my own. And so I was like extremely pregnant with my younger son at the time. And John, my agent and I had a zoom. And we talked through it, and he was like, well, you've got a little bit going on, so take your time. And I was like, no, no, no, no. You need to give me a deadline. If you don't give me a deadline, it will never get done.
And so I ended up doing the proposal while I was on maternity.
And then my dogs are hanging out playing in the background. You probably can't hear them, but I'm sure you.
[00:10:05] Speaker A: It's entertaining for me.
[00:10:07] Speaker B: So I wrote the proposal on maternity leave and literally finished the second revision the Friday before. I went back to work on Monday.
And a few months later, we took it out to publishers and we sold it, and then that was that. But, yeah, I kind of feel like the writer equivalent of somebody who got discovered at a mall and put in their favorite show.
I feel so grateful.
There was a lot of pressure because this is something that I care a lot about, and. And it's something that a lot of people care a lot about. So there. There was a little bit of the, like, I can't screw this up, and the radio silence guys. Matt and Tyler, I talked to quite a bit about this because they had very similar feelings when they were taking on Scream 5. Like, we love this thing. We can't ruin it. And so they, like, maybe more than anybody, understood how I was feeling about, like, needing to do this right.
And so it's just been kind of a wild, very surreal rollercoaster.
[00:11:22] Speaker A: Well, with the invention of the Internet many years ago, we have the ability now to look up something. Well, actually, speaking of that, in Scream 2, there's a scene in the library where it looks extremely like Will Forte. Have you seen this thing? Well, Will Forte's. It's a guy sitting at a computer across from Sydney, and there it looks like Will Forte. It's like Google. Like, wait, was Will Forte in. In Scream 2? He's not. Will has explained this on Twitter or X whatever, that he's not actually in the movie. But I have the ability to quickly Google this. I have the ability to go online and look up this information, and I feel like I do that a lot nowadays with my. My passions or something I really enjoy, or, like, I go a deep dive into YouTube videos or whatever it may be on this thing. And I always felt like, I love Scream.
You know, I have a Scream T shirt on right now. I met Roger, but I never actually did that. I never actually went online and Googled and was like, well, how did it get made? The first thing. What was the original name of the movie, all that stuff. And so this book gave me that. You know, like, I'm like, why didn't I do this? And I'm so glad I didn't because I learned so much by reading your book.
But it also wasn't just a history. Wasn't reading an encyclopedia about Scream. I wasn't reading, like, okay, this is the fact. This is when it was made, and this is when it came out. There was some sort of. You could tell there was a lot. It was almost like a love letter. It was almost like you wanted to pour this out to tell everybody about it. But you had this. Like, you could seem that you cared. This wasn't a hired job to tell a story about Albert Einstein. Like, you actually had this way of telling the story about how it seemed like you actually were passionate about it. And I really appreciate that.
[00:12:58] Speaker B: Well, thank you. That means a lot. Like, I didn't want to make bar trivia.
[00:13:04] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:05] Speaker B: And so I just decided to lean into what the people I was talking to thought was most important. Like, when you're thinking back on your experience working on these movies, what memories come back to you? Like, tell me about it. And I approached it that way because I really wanted to bring through, like, the humanity of making these movies, because it is. It's their story. It's not my story. That's one of the. I know you're not supposed to read the reviews, or if you do, you're not supposed to acknowledge that you read the reviews. But one of the things that people have criticized, and it's totally fair, is that there is a lot more of other people in it than there is of me. And I get, I get that. I understand it. It's just not my style. Right. Because it's not my.
I. I'm not what's important here.
So I, I. All of the emphasis is on. On the people who actually matter. And I tried to add, you know what I could from the perspective of somebody who has been watching these franchise and loving these movies and bring it all together. Like, I'm the connective tissue, not the soul. Well, if for lack of a less obnoxious, yes.
[00:14:24] Speaker A: Well, no. No offense to you at all, but, like, do you think that person who's complaining about it not being about you would have read it if they, you know, like I said, no offense to you, but, like, do I really know who Ashley Collins was before I read this book? Probably not. So. So why would I have cared so much about what.
Personally think about it more than what some of the people who made these movies reacted to these movies would care about. It's an interesting complaint. I guess that's the complaint. Ashley, you're good.
[00:14:49] Speaker B: Yeah. Who's this jerk? She needs to talk less. I want to hear from the people who she interviewed.
[00:14:53] Speaker A: Like, you probably have people who have followed your reporting over the years and your journalism. Like, it's people who are like, oh, I want to hear what Ashley has to say. But, like, it's true. Like having the small bits and pieces of your passion behind this project, but, like, learning a lot from this or getting quotes or people talking about Wes or things like that. That's what made the book there. But like I said, but the way it was put together was like a love letter from not just you, but from everybody who worked on this franchise over the years. I say this franchise, over this. It's still going. So it's one of the cool things, too. It's like, you almost could have a part two of this in a couple of years. If they make a couple more movies. You could add, like, a little expanded edition version of this book. Because it's not ended. It hasn't ended yet. It's one of those it's not Back to the future where there's been three films and we're done kind of thing. This is like a continuing thing. And so. Yeah, no, I'm glad it wasn't all about you. No offense.
[00:15:45] Speaker B: No, not taken.
[00:15:47] Speaker A: I don't care what you have to say, Ashley. No, I am hilarious.
[00:15:52] Speaker B: It would have been a great funny.
[00:15:56] Speaker A: No, and it's true, because there was a documentary, right. There was a documentary about Scream a few years back, but. But there isn't. And it's funny because we are. What was the Scream 7. We are at a point where there's a lot of films in this. And. And I looked up, too. There was a book. I said, I recently. I read about Halloween and the franchise there. And there's other things. There has been, obviously, people writing articles and pieces and things like that about Scream over the years. But, you know, it didn't hurt. The COVID of your book. Didn't hurt the sale, the wanting to read this book. By the way, that cover of your book definitely draws people in.
[00:16:30] Speaker B: That didn't hurt.
It's so cool.
I wish I could take, like, more credit. I have it here, but, like, I wish I could take more credit for that.
My. My contribution was when they initially sent it over, there wasn't blood on it yet. And I'm like, we need blood. It needs to be spooky.
[00:16:49] Speaker A: Yes, exactly.
No, it's great. I think it's one of those things. And it's a, it's a.
Yeah. I'm a graphic designer by trade, so I always say, people say don't judge a book by its cover. Yeah. Don't judge the quality of a book by its cover. But maybe it does take people a chance to pick it up. If it's front facing at a store or a library or something like that, that cover should pull people in. It's an iconic mask that's been compared to this, been the mask of this movie for a long time or this franchise for a long time. So it should pull people in. But with the popcorn, it's just so. I don't know. It's just sometimes I go, as an artist, I'm even like, how does someone think about that?
Like, how did they do that?
[00:17:30] Speaker B: There's a few hours before you see ghost face.
[00:17:33] Speaker A: Yes. And you're like, wait, wait a second. That's. That's, that's the way. That's the way the mask looks. Yeah, it's. It's a, it's a pull me right in. But yeah, so, so how. I mean, you said this, you know, I don't know, when you had your baby. So how long were you working on, on this book?
[00:17:48] Speaker B: Oh, God.
So the, if we're counting the proposal, like three years from the time that I actually started working on the proposal to my last interview.
But two years of actual interview interviews and writing and that bit.
[00:18:18] Speaker A: I mean.
[00:18:18] Speaker B: It was a long time.
[00:18:20] Speaker A: And I, I'm, I'm. I'm the kind of person who wants to get things done and move on, have people see and enjoy my work sooner than later. Because I, I don't. Two years is a long time to put something together. But I mean, that's a lot of interviews. You did, did you compile, did you interview a bunch of people over the years, compile it all and then start writing? Or was this like more of a, you know, when you could get your interview, get it in there, and then you started writing around that?
[00:18:43] Speaker B: So I am an insane person.
Like, I. So the way that I've always worked and, you know, this goes to what I was just talking about where like anytime I am writing about something as a journalist, I'm not the story. So I always start with quotes. And I go through my interviews and I pull out the things that are either important or emotional or funny or that I just like for whatever reason, and I Put them all in a document, and then I organize it in a way that makes narrative sense. And then I, you know, write around, paraphrase, add context, et cetera.
I don't know what I thought I was gonna do with the book, but I didn't think that would work on the scale of a book.
But that is exactly what I ended up doing. Like, I stopped fighting it and just did it. And I used, like, a million different font colors to keep people separate while I was moving things around. And so I. I did. I have a massive document that I started with where I split, essentially, and tell me if I am going on into too much detail, but I basically split each interview into stuff I was going to use and stuff that I probably wasn't going to use, but I didn't want to just, like, throw away, because you never know. Because there were some things where I would talk to somebody and then three months later, somebody else would say something that put one of those rejected quotes in a totally different light.
And so I split up some of the interviews before I was done talking to people.
And then there were a couple of people I talked to pretty late in the process who I, like, started writing drafts without. But for the most part, I had all of my interviews done before I really started putting everything together.
And I split everything in by movie. So there's a scream one, document, scream two, and then I split it further based on, you know, different facets of each movie.
And then I just sort of chipped away until, like, I focused and focused some more and then rewrote. And, like, I think the original version, where it was quotes that I liked in relatively the order ended up was like, 180,000 words.
[00:21:10] Speaker A: I wouldn't have read it. Sorry.
[00:21:13] Speaker B: I'm like, I gotta hit 70, give or take 10. Like, so I. And then I actually tracked it for a while. I had a document that was how I was tracking My progress is. I would, like, keep track. I would look at the word counts of the different things to see how. Where I was.
But, yeah, that. That's pretty much how I did it. And then there were people who I talked to later in the process who sometimes they fit neatly, sometimes they didn't. And I'm like, this is better. And now I have to rewrite this entire thing.
And then I ended up splitting the chapters down smaller than I had originally intended, at the advice of my editor. And then she saw the first, like, half of the book and told me there needed to be more of me in it. She had that feedback too.
And so I did that when I wrote the second half of the book.
And then my original ending, like, that original last chapter is gone. Because that was October 2024.
And some things have changed since then. So it was. It was a work in progress. It was like, very much a living document the whole time. I don't know how other people do it.
I imagine that there are more efficient ways, but I. You know, I got to the heart of what I was trying to do, which is making it feel like these people are telling the story.
[00:22:49] Speaker A: I mean, did you have to at some point? Like, obviously you mentioned the last chapter being changed and things like that. Like, did you have to at some point just be like, okay, this is where I have to. Like, it doesn't matter if anything changes from this point on. I just have to stop. Like, I can't. Like, if all of a sudden news came out that they're like, oh, son, a three new movie deal, you have to just be like, I'm done. I can't do any more with this franchise right now.
[00:23:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
I had made the choice fairly early on that I wasn't going to chase news Updates on Scream 7. And so I was a little bit unsure of how I was going to end it until Kevin Williamson signed on to direct me.
And then I was like, thank you, universe. Yes, there is my full circle. Yep, there is my. I had something similar with Chris Landon because Chris Landon was an intern on the screen, the first movie.
So there was a similar, although very different full circle kind of moment going on. So that was already kind of in my brain. But when I found out Kevin was gonna direct scream 7, I was just like, not only is this the best possible thing for this franchise, but, like, I couldn't have asked for a better ending.
[00:24:06] Speaker A: No, that's the thing. It's a perfect thing in that sense. I will say I 100% really vibed with the it being movie. Movie broken up in that way. Like, the chronological order of it all. I don't want people to skip chapters or skip around, but it gives people the opportunity to do that kind of too. Like, it wouldn't be like, what was Kevin Williamson's experience on Scream? And it has the screen 7 part and all that, you know, like, it didn't, like, it wasn't, like, interviewed by, like, oh, let's talk about what people talking about Wes Craven. The breakup of how it is by movie in the beginning to the end allows people to do that. In my opinion, like, if you're like, Scream 7 or Scream 6 is my favorite Scream movie. You could go towards the end and be like, okay, I'm gonna read that part. Or if you're like, I only want to read about Scream 1, that's fine. But like I said, I don't recommend people doing that because it's all phenomenal. But I'm saying, like, it gives people that option too, that you're not like, ah, I have to do everything. I mean, there's people out there, like, if you're a Fast and the Furious fan, you're like, ah, Tokyo Drift. I don't want to read anything about that. Like, you wouldn't have to read about that. But I guess it. You can skip ahead. And that's what I liked about. That's what the essay book I read about, why I Love Horror was like, if you didn't really know the author or care about that author, you could skip to the next essay. It wasn't about interviews with a bunch of people and talking about horror. It was like each individual one was a story. So you can skip that. Not like that. I don't recommend that. I recommend reading the whole thing. But I like that way of going about it too. Which was really good about how, like, you almost did like each movie in a sequel and so on and so forth. It was a. It was well done again, and I got me when the Scream is. I just love Scream so much that reading that first chapter just propelled me into wanting to read the rest of the book too. Which is nice because, I mean, getting that beginning part and learning about Scream and the beginning of the franchise and in the different changes of the name and all that stuff, like, I didn't know that.
Which was actually really weird. Again, really weird to me for someone who likes a movie so much that I didn't know much about it, which was awesome.
I was like. Like my wife would. Like I read in bed and my wife would be looking over me like, are you still awake? It's like one o' clock in the morning. Me with my phone trying to read through the digital copy of this because it was just engrossing. I loved it. It was amazing.
[00:26:12] Speaker B: I love to hear it. Somebody told me they skipped ahead and read the west chapter first, and I'm like, I'm cool. Like, I am. Fine by me.
[00:26:23] Speaker A: Well, choose your own adventure.
I mean, it is one of those things. The difference between writing something like this, you know, you know, a nonfiction versus book book versus a fiction book is that ability to kind of do that. You literally read up most book I mean, you might lose context if you don't know what's going on. But you can't just skip to the middle of a fiction book and be like, hey, what's going? Like, you're going to lose a bunch of stuff in that. But, like, this does give you that ability to kind of move around and do. Do what you want with it. Like I said, I highly recommend that you don't. But, like, do you.
Do you like the finished product?
Of course you do.
[00:26:57] Speaker B: Do I like the book? Yeah.
[00:26:59] Speaker A: I mean, like I said, you laid it out. You had your. A bunch of words, you had your quotes and stuff like that. Do you feel like after. Now you've obviously read it a few times, you've had people reviewing it, so on and so forth, that. That you're not at this point going, ah, damn, I really wish I put that quote in there or things like that. Like, are you at the point now where, like, this is. This is exactly where I wanted it to be.
[00:27:18] Speaker B: I'm happy. Yes.
Like, obviously I wanted to do a good job. One of the things that I cared about most was, like, I really wanted Kevin Williamson to, like.
And he does, thank God.
So, like, that was a big hurdle for me. Like, once I cleared that, I, like, let myself relax and just trust myself a little bit. Because there is, you know, I don't know, a single creative person who doesn't have, like, at least a little bit of imposter syndrome.
[00:27:43] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:27:44] Speaker B: And so at some point, you have to just, like, accept the compliments and be like, okay, I. I did a good job. I feel like I did a good job. Other people are telling me I did a good job. Like, nothing is ever perfect. Right. I'm a perfectionist. I try the most I can. Like, I.
You say you like to get through things as quickly as possible and move on to the next. I would literally spend 10 years on this, and it would be a totally different book 10 years from now than it was by the time, you know. But, like, I just. That's just kind of the way that I am. Like, I will tinker forever, but at some point they take it from you and print it.
[00:28:26] Speaker A: Now you can't do anything about it. You can't do anything about it. It's, you know, August 19th that hit the shelves. It's on the shelf. It's in print. Can't change it. You can't go change the digital version if you want, but we actually ran.
[00:28:38] Speaker B: Into it in the wild.
Not this past weekend. A week. The week before.
[00:28:44] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:44] Speaker B: Because I didn't realize with books, like, they can put them out early if they get early.
[00:28:48] Speaker A: Some stores just, like, Barnes and Noble things, like, they just throw them on the shelves when the books come and, like, get delivered. It's crazy.
[00:28:54] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm doing an event at that Barnes and Noble, but we just had happened to be there on a Sunday with our family, and I was walking through the horror section, and I saw, like, a Halloween board game. I was like, oh, that's kind of cool. And I look up, and I'm like, wait a second.
That's my vibe.
[00:29:10] Speaker A: Someone stole my cover. No.
[00:29:12] Speaker B: And then my kids were with me, which was really exciting because they're gonna be, you know, in school tomorrow, but. And then we saw somebody buy it.
[00:29:20] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:29:21] Speaker B: Like, I saw a guy in it in his hand, and I'm, like, looking at him smiling, and he looks at me and sees me looking at him. Like, I swear I'm not a creeper. Like, I wrote. I wrote that.
And so he met us in the cafe, and I, like, signed it for him.
[00:29:32] Speaker A: That's.
[00:29:32] Speaker B: Hi, Bobby, if you're listening.
[00:29:34] Speaker A: That's so awesome.
That's such a cool thing. That's a. I love that because there's, like, the specific books. Like, you're talking, like, your major core books that are out there. You don't like the next in the series or your Game of Thrones books. Those are, like, hard street dates. They don't put those on the shelf until, like, the morning of. But other books I've seen that, I've just like. There's a book that comes out Tuesday that was out two weeks ago, and I was just like, oh, my gosh, this is so weird. I'm like, I live in not rural Maine, but fairly rural Maine. We have a couple of bookstores. It doesn't happen to me that often. It's usually. It's usually mainly because the book doesn't get to the bookstore until the Tuesday drops. Just because of how mail works. But it's so cool to see that. To see that out in the wild ahead of time, because. Yeah.
And just to be able to stumble upon it. If you go in there, knowing it's in there, it's a little different. But, like, to be able to go in there and be like, wait a second, I see something.
[00:30:26] Speaker B: Even if I had thought to look for it. Yes, I.
Which I wouldn't have, because it was two weeks before, I would have looked in the TV and film section, which is all the way in the back. And, like, that's not where it was. It's with I'm right across from Stephen King, which was like a whole moment for me.
And it was. It was just so cool. It was like one of the coolest moments of my entire life.
[00:30:51] Speaker A: Buddy of mine, Adam Caesar, who wrote Clown in the Cornfield, his movie was just out recently, Clown the Cornfield in theaters. His book Clown in the Cornfield is a young adult horror model. And it's never ending. It never ends up in the regular horror section. It's always in the young adult section. So every once in a while he goes into Barnes and Noble, he gets a couple copies and moves them to the horror.
[00:31:08] Speaker B: I love it.
[00:31:09] Speaker A: He's like, I want people to read this book and I want people to understand that it's like that borderline. It's young adult, but it's like at the edge of young adult, man. That sets as adult a young adult book gets. And he's like, every once in a while he just moves a couple copies, like two or three copies. Just move a couple copies over to the horror section. Put him in the right spot, but that way people can stumble upon his book there. So if you ever see it in the TV section and not in the horror section, just go grab a couple copies and move it over. No one's going to know.
But yeah, it's a seeing in the wild. And I get that.
I design beer cans for a living. So every once in a while I get that kind of like not knowing our beer is in a store specific store that I'm in. And I walk in, I go, wait a second, I see that. That's pretty co. There's not as many release dates for me, but, like, it's just kind of cool to see that your work in the wild, you know, it's just cool. You've talked about how great I love the book.
It's, you know, a love letter, in my opinion, to Scream. But not just from you, from the people who made Scream. From the. You know, it would have been outstanding to be able to have interviewed, you know, Wes Craven. But, like, outside of that, you got a lot of people in this book that were phenomenally interviewed and the quotes are great and all that stuff. The COVID is amazing. Like I said, we already talked about that, but. But I truly believe, outside of the fact that it was even created in the first place, your biggest get is your narrator for your audiobook.
How the hell did you get Roger Jackson to narrate your audiobook?
[00:32:36] Speaker B: I asked him.
He was the only person I Wanted. And so my agent, my editor, and I had. I'm like, like, what if Roger did the audiobook? And they were like, well, that would be amazing. But, like, you know, we'll see.
And so I had to wait until a certain point in the process before I could ask because my imprint is part of the Penguin Random House family. So, like, there are protocols and stuff. And so as soon as I got the green light, I had a call set with Roger to talk about some Scream 7 stuff. Anyway, and once we got through the interview, I was like, okay, so, like, while I have you, one more thing.
Is there any universe in which you would consider narrating the audiobook? And he goes, this audiobook?
Yeah. Oh, yeah, I'd love to. Great. I'm like.
Was so excited.
And. And he asked if I had heard any of his other, like, audiobooks, because he has done others. And I was. Listen to the clips. But, you know, it just, like, it was the only thing that made sense to me.
And so the fact that it actually worked out, I'm just. I'm still so excited. And it. Yeah.
[00:33:57] Speaker A: I had mentioned it to a buddy of mine about talking about this book and how he should read this book when it comes out, and so on and so forth. And he's like, is he. Does he narrate it in ghostface voice the whole time? I go, no. It would be amazing if he did that the entire book. Except for when it's his quotes, then it's just in his normal voice.
Like. Like he's talking about himself. Like, if everything else is in ghostface voice except for Roger Jackson quotes, Roger Jackson quotes have to be read in his actual real voice.
That's not true. He reiterates it probably pretty easily, but, I mean, he's a voice actor. Like, it's one of those things I've always appreciated when a author narrates their own books, if they're very good at doing that. Like, there's certain authors that are not very good at public speaking that I don't want to read their audiobook because it's not. Not fluid and so on and so forth. But there's definitely. I've read some. Some biographies that were read that were, you know, Kevin Smith's biography is read. He reads it himself, which is really cool because it's like, he's talking to you in your car when you're driving. You're like, oh, Kevin's reading me my book. But, like, this is, like, outside of you narrating your own book, this is, like, the next best thing, in my opinion, like the most iconic voice from this franchise is the one that's gonna be reading this into your ears when you're driving. So. So as much as I want people to buy the book, buy the book, put it on your shelf, read the book, maybe also buy the audiobook because, like, that is an experience. I believe I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna read it again when on audiobook because, like, I just need that experience of Roger Jackson reading me the book. It's, it's.
[00:35:21] Speaker B: And I, I did do the intro, so I got.
I did do part of it because the intro is very personal.
[00:35:27] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:35:29] Speaker B: So you do get me and Roger. But yeah, I posted a little teaser from the audiobook the other day, and in the caption I was like, I know I'm supposed to tell you to read this because I wrote it, but like, you should listen to it because Roger's amazing.
[00:35:44] Speaker A: Yes, I do love it. I love it because you did like the intro. You're listed as a narrator too, which is always funny because I'm like, well, yeah, you had like, what, A couple of words at the beginning. But yes, it says Roger Jackson and it says you, which is phenomenal. I met Roger, so I live in. Right near Bangor, Maine, which is home of Stephen King, or where he used to live. He doesn't actually live here anymore, but his house is here. And he was at a. Roger came to a small comic convention that we had here and it was so awesome. I had him sign my screen vhs. And I met him one time and it was. He was such a nice, nice, nice, nice gentleman. And so, you know, you couldn't be better that he was in this movie and got famous off this movie. No one knows he looks like. If anybody just watches the movie and hasn't actually met Roger Jackson or seen a picture of him, they're like, I don't know who this voice is, but it's pretty phenomenal to have him actually read your book. That was cool. It was really cool to hear.
It's, you know, it's different for like Halloween because so many people have played Michael Myers the same thing with Jason. Like, there's so many, so many Jason's. There are a couple of like really famous Jason's, but like, like Roger Jackson is, is Ghost Space. That's amazing. It's such amazing. I can, I can go on and on and on about it. It's such a cool. When I saw that, I was like, no way.
[00:36:53] Speaker B: Like all of this, everything you're saying is exactly how I still feel about it.
[00:36:58] Speaker A: Like you just have it all. Like people are like, you're like doing like making dinner, doing the dishes, whatever you're gonna have on the background so you can hear Roger Jackson reading your book in the background. Right. Like, like I have a vinyl record on. You're just gonna be listening to Roger Jackson reading your book? No, but yeah, I am a big fan of both. I hybrid read. I do some audiobook. I have a half an hour, 35 minute drive to my office and so I do, I read like listen to an audiobook and then I'll figure out where I am and I'll go read the physical book and so on and so forth. So I also believe in if you're going to reread something, read it the opposite. So if you listen to an audiobook, reread it in physical copy because it gives you a different experience. And I do that a lot where you know, I read, I get advanced copies of books and then when I go to read it again, I'll listen to an audiobook because it is a different experience. And so I could, I could imagine that's a cool experience in its own. And I'm such a pump for you. So yeah, as you can tell, I'm excited too.
Not even my book.
[00:37:51] Speaker B: I love it.
[00:37:52] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, but Scream is like I said, it's iconic.
It's ongoing right now. It's not. There's been some ups and downs and things like that.
Is this, do you like what you do for did for this like type of book? Are you looking to eventually write a fictional book? Are you looking to do more of this kind of stuff where it's like you did this project because it meant a lot and now it's on to whatever's next?
[00:38:19] Speaker B: Great question.
I don't know yet. I have an idea for another similar nonfiction book.
I have to talk to the people involved because that is one thing that like I wouldn't take on another pop culture nonfiction without having people pre committed.
[00:38:44] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:38:45] Speaker B: Because that was a source of stress and I got very, very lucky. And that William Sherrick, one of the producers of the new Scream movies, was one of the first people I talked with and he was super helpful. And Kevin said yes fairly early on and was very helpful.
And like the people who were making the movies still could not have been more supportive.
But I might not get that lucky again.
And so I would want to make sure that I've got buy in before I even write the proposal because it's a lot of work, and it is enjoyable work. I loved doing this, but I would only want to do it again because there's not anything that hits that same. Like, I've loved this since I was a teenager.
[00:39:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:39:33] Speaker B: That I would need some stability or some things to lower the stress a little bit, to make it worth it. But I do find my mind going to fiction constantly.
So I don't know. All my ideas are fiction. I've got one nonfiction idea that I think would be really, really great that I probably will do now next. And I've got probably 15 fiction ideas that I would love to do. But it's a. You know, I had never written a book before this.
[00:40:00] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:40:01] Speaker B: And so I've shown myself that I can do things I've never done before. So it's not as much of a hurdle as it would have been prior to writing your favorite scary movie. But there is part of my head that's like, I feel like even though I'm lovely and clever, I would be really bad at writing dialogue. Like, so we'll see. We'll see.
[00:40:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
The benefit you get out of this, too, is, like, now I know who you are because of this book. You know what I mean? So Scream pulled me in. Right. Because obviously Scream is the focus of this book. But then I learned that I enjoyed your writing style. I enjoyed the book. I enjoyed talking to you. So now if you wrote something I'm going to. And it came up in my feed, I'd go, oh, oh, I'm gonna take a chance on this. Which is kind of cool. It kind of gives you that in. If you wrote a fiction book off the start, it may not have been as much on my radar as this would have been, which is kind of cool. And so you have that ability. But I'd also love to enjoy anything you want to talk about in pop culture, because I think you did a great job on this book. But, yeah, I understand. Getting the buy in first. Makes sense. It'd be really weird to write to call Back to the Back to the Future reference I made to write a Back to the Future story and not get Michael J. Fox and Christopher Lloyd. It would suck at the very beginning being like, oh, we wrote this book, but we weren't able to get these two people to interview. And then you're like, okay, then once point every.
[00:41:18] Speaker B: It does. Yeah, it does happen. Like, if I. I felt like there was one person I couldn't do this without, and that's Kevin Williamson. But if he had said no, I still would have been contractually obligated to write a book about Scream. So, like, it does happen.
[00:41:32] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:41:33] Speaker B: And I just. I need to be like, I. I'm not willing to take as much of a risk another time because I don't know if I'm gonna get that. That lucky twice. And I also just do think that people in the Scream universe, it's just like. Like a very truly special group of wonderful human beings.
[00:41:55] Speaker A: It's really cool. And this was as good. I love watching documentaries, I'll tell you that. My turn now on anything. But, like, this is just. I love. And I've always said to people that you can only watch so much tv. Like, there's only. You have to sit down and watch this. You can read. Like, I was at my camp this weekend. I could sit there on the boat and read a couple of chapters of this and not to be in front of a screen. Right. Like, so. So it's really cool because I love the fact that. That this could have been. You could have pitched this to a movie studio and then make this into a documentary. But the fact that it's in written form, I think is amazing. And I think that's what's cool about it, too. It's like a. You mix it up for those. Those people who want to learn some stuff about Scream. So I'm. I mean, it's on the shelves now as of. Not as a recording this, but as of this episode drops, it's on the shelves. So go get it. If your local bookstore doesn't have it, tell them you want it because they can get it. And then there's Also options like bookshop.org is a great resource for people to go get, and it supports local bookstores. Or if you want the audiobook narrated by Ashley here and Roger Jackson, there's a Libro FM has it available on there, which means that also, again, it supports local bookstores. But what I always say on the end of these episodes is just get the book.
If. If you have to buy it at the big Amazon store, then buy it on the Amazon store, because at least you bought the book.
That's my big thing, is, yes, if you support local. But if you can't just get the book, I highly recommend reading this book or ask your library to get it. That's huge. So tell your library you want this. If you can't afford to buy the book, tell your library you want it, and they'll buy the book, and then you can take it out of your library. Sound good?
[00:43:31] Speaker B: Sounds good.
[00:43:32] Speaker A: There's always people like, I don't want to buy on Amazon, and then they end up not buying the book. And I'm like, well, that's not. To anybody.
[00:43:38] Speaker B: That's what I've been saying. Just buy it where you buy stuff. You don't have to go out of your normal routine, just. And libraries are carrying it.
[00:43:45] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:43:46] Speaker B: Which, like, I'm so excited.
Like, it's gonna be in libraries, which is like weirdly, nerdily, like, yeah, like.
[00:43:55] Speaker A: It'S such a cool experience.
Like I said, I'm pumped for. I'm pumped for you.
When I, you know, reached out to ask if I could read this book and so on and so forth, and immediately was like, I wonder if Ashley would come on the podcast and chat about it. Because like I said, I really, really, really, really enjoyed this. And I read a lot of fiction. And so reading something like this in between that, those worlds that I'm in, weird places and horror stories. Look at that. You got a partner there, Felix.
There you go.
It just breaks up the monotony. Like I said, I'm living in these weird spots that like your horror movies, books that are tending to scare you. And then I have this that I love Scream so much that learning about it was really cool. So anybody who's a Scream fan out there is going to want to read this book. So anybody's a horror fan out there, highly recommend it. And anybody who wants to learn about Scream or sort of something. This is worth reading because I think it's a well, well done compilation of interviews and quotes and stories from behind the scenes of a. Of a pretty iconic franchise.
But actually, so much, thank you so much, so much for coming on and talking about your book and so much more here. It's. It was available August 19th at your bookstore, so go buy your favorite scary movie.
How the Scream Films Rewrote the Rules of horror. There you go. I got the whole title in there for you.
[00:45:17] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:45:18] Speaker A: Absolutely. But thank you so much for coming on, taking the time out of your day to chat with us here on the podcast. And when you write your next book, whether it's fiction, nonfiction, whatever, we'll reach out and we'll chat about that, too. Sound good?
[00:45:29] Speaker B: Sounds good.
[00:45:30] Speaker A: Thank you. Actually, see, thank you.
