[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to the Capes and Tights podcast right here on Capesandtights.com, i'm your host, Justin Soderbergh. This episode is once again brought to you by our friends over at Galactic Comics and Collectibles. At galactic comics and collectibles.com Steve Orlando joins us for this episode. He's written for basically every major comic book publisher except for one that you'll hear about on this episode. But he's received Eisner nominations, he's been nominated for GLAAD Media Awards, and so on and so forth. But Orlando has written books like Scarlet Witch, which came out recently. Godzilla Versus America's Boston in the upcoming, actually comes out today, Warwolf over at Mad Cave Studios. But yeah, he's got a long, long, long list of comics that Steve's been a part of. So, yeah, we chatted Warwolf and a couple other things on here. But before you listen to us, check us out on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Blue sky threads, all those places you can rate, review, subscribe over on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you find your podcasts, as well as YouTube.com and as always, you can find
[email protected] but this is writer Steve Orlando chatting his new comic book, Warwolf, right here on the Capes and Tights podcast. Enjoy.
Welcome to the podcast, Steve. How are you today?
[00:01:13] Speaker B: I'm doing very well. Very well.
Pouring outside in Boston. So happy to be inside with house technology protecting me.
[00:01:22] Speaker A: I'm in Maine, so it's like it's overcast right now. It's supposed to be rainy today, but I think it's just overcast and gross and cold and, you know, it is in New England.
[00:01:29] Speaker B: Coming. I'll tell you.
[00:01:30] Speaker A: Coming my way.
Yeah, exactly. Be inside. This is great. You know, we're gonna chat comics together. And you're a first timer on the podcast here. I've been actually trying to. Not trying to get you. It's not like it hasn't worked. It's just like you've been on my short list for like, we're up 250 episodes almost. So, like, you know, I had silver vessels I wanted to get you on. And there's a couple of times where I'm like, oh, I gotta get Steve on the podcast. And they just never worked in my scheduling. And now I'm like, this is amazing. And then we had to reschedule because of me. So it's like, okay, good, we're finally doing.
That's all right.
[00:02:02] Speaker B: I'm Happy. I'm happy to talk. And I see you got one of my books slabbed in the background. So, in a way, I've been appearing for a while.
[00:02:07] Speaker A: Isaac, always appearing on the podcast. Yeah, actually, yeah, I have a bunch of stuff, honestly, I just couldn't find. I just moved, actually. Just moved. I moved in June. Still unpacking, if that makes any sense to you.
But yeah, yeah. So, you know, let's just. Quickly, a quick description of, like, how you got into comics, where are you coming from, all that stuff. Just a short.
Something like, you know, were you into comics as a kid?
You know, you know, you've been working for a number of publishers, so obviously now you. You found some success in comics. Like, how did you get where you are right now, quickly?
[00:02:41] Speaker B: Well, I mean, it's quick.
It's quick, boring, and hopefully inspiring at the same time.
Because I, you know, some people have these, you know, some people have these very, like, once upon a time in Hollywood type stories. Like, I ran into a guy at a diner and I bought a pie, and I was writing a. You know, I was working for Marvel the next day or the next week.
But honestly, I was just grinding, man. I went to my first comic con at 12 years old, trying to get work in comics. And 20 years later, thousands of rejections later, without exaggeration, it finally happened. But my story is for better or worse, first, as I said, kind of a boring one. It's quite simple. This is all I only. The only thing I ever wanted to do.
I started trying to when I was 12 years old. My mentor told me, write every day. If you want this to be, be a job, treat it like a job, starting now.
And I've written ever. I'm 40 years old now, and I've written every day since I was 12, without fail, legitimately. I have never not written in the time since he. Since Steve Siegel told me that in 1997.
And I came back every year, every six months with a new pitch, a new script. I got notes, I listened to the criticism, which might seem obvious, but that's something that many people who are trying to break in, struggle with, which you would think is obvious, right? You know, if. If you already had everything figured out, you would be in.
But regardless. But I did, you know, like Siegel likes to say, and he is still one of my best friends. Many people start their stories with him like I did meeting him at a Con, but few people come back. And I came back multiple times a year for two decades, the end of which I finally had Something that, you know, he said was a publishable quality, professional quality.
And he, as promised many years prior, put it in the hands of the folks at Image and said, what do you think about this? Eric Stevenson looked at my book, what would become Undertow with my friend Artyom Turkanov, and I was about a 32nd, 20 year overnight success.
In that time I had also been doing the work to build my networks outside of the creator owned environment so that once I had some published work, I could then have a road to working.
At that point it looked like Vertigo because most of my friends were, most of my friends were in Vertigo and the friends I made.
But look, it's a very, it is not the sexy story, but it is the one that works the most. There's no one way to break into entertainment. But yeah, it's called I worked for two decades of my life and it finally happened.
And I didn't, and I, and I didn't spend that time, you know, looking for praise.
My mentor and one of my best friends, as I said, is a very brusque person. You know, he didn't really waste time telling me what was good about my work, as in his words, that's what my mom was for.
He told me what could be better.
And by the way, that doesn't mean he was callous, but when you're trying to get better, what's good is already good. You need to know what needs to still be elevated, polished. So I like to think I had the right attitude. I certainly have an attitude, as you'll find out in this podcast, but I was grinding my friend. And the reason I also say it's inspiring, hopefully for people, is that if you are someone who has been trying to break in for as long as I did and it still hasn't happened, guess what? You know, like, it can always happen.
I had, I had, I studied, you know, I went to college for something else in addition to writing. I was a double major. I had another. I mean, I was creative writing and Russian studies. In my case, I had a shoot job for like almost a decade before I could make money off writing. But I never stopped, you know, and the one thing I'll say for folks who are thinking, you know, maybe it's finally not going to happen, look, it could always be the day after you quit that it was going to happen.
And that fortitude and that drive is what separates professionals from amateurs, said another.
During one of my jobs, my boss was an MFA from Columbia. It's a very fancy degree. And he once Asked me, you know, Steve, how do you get all this? How do you find time to write? You know, because you're working here. And, and I had a two hour commute.
So, you know, I was usually gone for like 14 hours a day, a commute included. And I said, you know, I go home and I eat dinner for an hour and then I write for three hours and then I go to bed and I do it again and that's what I do.
And he said to me that that was impressive, but that's why I was a professional and he was an artist.
And, you know, I guess that, you know, I guess that, you know, warmed his heart. But now, 10 years later, I've written hundreds of books and he's never been pub.
So look, it is work, you know, that is. Doesn't mean it's also not creative. But what I like to say is that the word job is still in the phrase dream job.
So you have to build a structure, you have to work and you have to believe in yourself because people are going to tell you that this isn't a real job. It's not something people can actually do.
There's a lot about our society tells you to settle.
And when you're looking for any type of job in the creative arts, this isn't just about comics.
We have a tendency as a species to look and understand that that is someone's job, as surely that could never be mine. There's a time there's a kind of person that watches a movie and says, that was great, but I could never do that, even if I want to. And there's a kind of person that watches a movie and says, that was great, fuck you, I'm going to make something even better.
And that's the kind of person you have to be if you want to move forward in the creative arts in general.
[00:08:13] Speaker A: I mean, that's what I mean. I listened to Kevin Smith years and years and years ago when he said, if you want to start a podcast, just start a podcast. Just do it. Put the effort in, put the quality in, things like that and work at it. Instead of just being like, oh, one of these days I'll do that. Oh, one of these days I'll do that. Maybe I'll do that one day. And I just did it one day. And it's where I am now. And so it's really cool to hear that you're dedicated to the thing you.
[00:08:32] Speaker B: Start shocking no one. Kevin Smith is right, at least in that instance.
[00:08:37] Speaker A: Yes, exactly right. He knows how to talk and he knows how to podcast. So I was like, okay, if he's telling me to do it, I'm going to do it right now. I mean, there's other things in his life that he's told us people do that I'm not going to do. But like, there's things that I will do that he said. But yeah, so you started, obviously, you had your image comic Undertow, and then you did DC for a while and you've done Marvel and so on and so forth. And actually what we're really reason we're here to talk is you have Warwolf coming out and you're, you're back. Not say back, but you're like, you have a new independent comic book coming out. I mean, you've done pretty much. I mean, is there a publisher that's like a well known publisher you haven't worked for? Not that you want to call it out, but is there?
[00:09:13] Speaker B: Yeah. Oni Press. Oh, there you go. But that might change in the next year.
So it's not a call out, it's a tease.
[00:09:20] Speaker A: Yes, there you go. Yeah, exactly. But I mean, think about it. You have, you know, if you go on the Internet, you've had hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of issues at both Marvel and DC and then combined for the rest of it.
[00:09:30] Speaker B: I work for. Publishers don't even exist anymore.
[00:09:34] Speaker A: Well, it's also sad in that sense because there are some books that I have liked from you that are like, okay, we're never going to get, you know, reprints or things like that. Like Balls of Beacon Hill. Like, that book's not gonna come back at some point unless something's figured out. Unless something gets figured out ever. Yeah, exactly. But I mean, you're back. You're doing this thing. So you've done everything.
You're not done everything, but you've done a lot of things. And now you're with Warwolf here. Tell us. What about Warwolf? What's Warwolf about? Sure.
[00:10:00] Speaker B: Well, I want to put. I haven't done everything because I haven't written, written the Kiss comic for Dynamite, which is still one of my bucket list jobs. Kiss is my favorite band. Rip.
[00:10:08] Speaker A: Rip. Yeah.
[00:10:10] Speaker B: Although originally RIP Eric Carr, who was actually my favorite member, who we lost many, many years ago.
I actually, ironically, I just bought an E and B slash, a B and E shirt that had Eric and Bruce Kulik on it last week or two weeks ago, and I wore it to a New York Comic Con.
But anyway, Werewolf. Yes, we are, we are starting to do. I was an early adopter for Mad Cave. Like they're just celebrating 10 years this year, I think might have been last year.
[00:10:36] Speaker A: Last year.
[00:10:37] Speaker B: And. But I will, I will do this to my shoulder and say that I was there when they were only four years old. So they've been a great company to work for. And after doing a lot of work for hire stuff, you know, I'm also in the gotcha man world for them. I've done. I've done some Flash Gordon. Oh, shit, did that come out yet? I will be doing some Flash Gordon. I've done some Dick Tracy.
That's what I meant to say. And that is what I said.
We're just going to kayfabe that other thing.
[00:11:02] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:11:03] Speaker B: And I finally said, well, what about originals, right? Because I've done all this. I've done all this. And we got to talking and we came up and I. And we came to Warwolf, which is essentially Beowulf meets War of the Worlds.
It's a building. It's a. If you want to hear me be pretentious, it's a buildings Roman, which is essentially a life story.
And, and I'm really, really excited. You know, we can, we can talk. Obviously we're here to talk about it, but it's. I try to do stuff that is not what you can find elsewhere in the market.
And oftentimes that means nobody gives a shit until later. But look, that's fine because stuff, I mean, it's not ideal, but it is fine because as one of my friends told me once during, when I was not the happiest, he said, you know, the problem with being ahead of the curve is that people like the curve.
[00:11:51] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:11:52] Speaker B: So here I am doing a science fiction ancient folklore mashup that is an ode to a German novel style.
What's sexier than that, folks?
But look, at the end of the day, like, it is like, like that's. You don't have to know any of all that. You have to know that, like that's extra seasoning. If you are a big time literary nerd like myself, stunning the world with the fact that you're not a virgin.
But. But all you really have to know is that this is about Earth's greatest hero. Or is it is Thomas Bruin Earth's greatest hero or Earth's greatest fraud? In 1984, he repelled an attack from alien invaders and all seem to go his way.
But once the aliens start coming back, decades later, over the course of his life, the question becomes, did we really Win or was this a defeat? Diverted.
And what did Bruin have to give up to seemingly save the world? And at the end of the day, does it even matter if he's a fraudering hero when he's the one standing up for us?
[00:13:00] Speaker A: You, you've mentioned in, in the, probably in the solicitation or the announcement from Ad Cave that it's been held to your heart for a long time. Why now? Why is this the time to tell this story? Is it just part of the schedule or is this like, okay, now this is the time to tell this story?
[00:13:13] Speaker B: Well, I mean, a couple things. I mean, I, I, as I said, I studied Russian literature and folklore in college, so I always have something like, there's always a place in my heart for some of the oldest stories, things like the epic Gil Gilgamesh, things like Beowulf. Because I think the older story is, the more it does speak to a core drive of us that we have as a species. And that also means the more rife it is for reinterpretation and representation and things like that.
So why now? Well, you know, we certainly live in a time where what is true and false is in question. And I'm being really generous there.
But the point is, is we, we love. But even before that, I mean, if this came out 10, I would have said this thing in a different way. We loved. Because here's the thing, folks will probably look at this and say, oh, obviously it's about that motherfucker in the office.
But it's not just about that. It's not just about that. I mean, clearly, I mean, my opinion should be clear about that sack of shit, but it's not just about that. We love to valorize people, celebrities as a culture. I could have, you know, again, if this came out in 2010, I would have been making the same point in a different way. We love, we love to put people on a pedestal and have unrealistic expectations of them. It's not just about shitbag.
It could be about, oh, you know, we love Taylor Swift, but now she's not saying the perfectly right thing. And now we question, is she really our friend? Well, no, bro, she was never your friend. She's a megastar. It's called the parasocial relationship. And at the end of the day, she's just a person.
Or, you know, look at the Internet. I can't believe I'm bringing this up in a podcast, but look at the Internet phenomenon known as the milkshake Duck in the morning. Everybody loves this duck. Who Likes to drink milkshakes, but by the afternoon you find out that this duck is racist.
You know, we almost compulsively and obsessively valorize and lionize people in a way that I think is not necessarily, not just fair to us, but it's not fair to them either.
Nobody is perfect all the time. Most people's public Persona is not who they really are because of these expectations. So yeah, we do kind of live in a post truth society right now. But, but, you know, before the bells start ringing on, on, you know, it being about one thing, it certainly isn't because we as a culture love to do this to people.
And it's like causing me physical pain to, to, to, to bring up one of the most overdrawn lines ever from the Dark Knight, but Harvey Dent is right.
You know, like him saying, you either, you either. What does he fucking say? Either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain. Look folks, that's also milkshake duck.
And we. We. That is like something we. I used. I said compulsively. And I really, really think that. I think it's dangerous. I think it's toxic to your mind to sort of valorize people like that and expect them to be more than what they are, which is complicated, fallible, imperfect people who are still trying to do their best often.
So, yeah, this is, I think, right. You know, it's, it speaks to the moment, but it would have spoken to the moment. Look, I can even counter that. I just, you know, I just said motherfucker and shitbag about Trump and again, piece of shit. But there were plenty of people who were angry. If you want to keep it in the political sphere that Obama ran on Hope and Change and did a bunch of illegal drone strikes. The point is we cannot valorize anyone like this. We cannot deify anyone like this because it is inevitably going to lead to us being disappointed.
And that's when things get dangerous. And that's what the book is really about.
[00:17:00] Speaker A: I mean, so you've had it on your head for a long time as things changed over the time you mentioned that you could do this 2010, you could have done the same thing. But did things change in your mind when you're making this story compared to when you first conceived it in your mind to. Now, obviously things do as you.
[00:17:13] Speaker B: One of the things that change is I can finally have enough cultural cachet to sell the book.
[00:17:18] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it's true. It's true. I've heard people say one of the things to do is do is to. If you can get into Marvel and dc, do a lot of Marvel dc, pad your bank account, you know, put the money in the bank because you've been doing issues, you're doing issues, you're doing issues to then create your own thing that you mentioned that's, you know, something's a little odd, you know, around the curve that you want the curve. You have the ability to do that now because Steve Orlando has a name.
[00:17:39] Speaker B: Well yeah, which a lot of people have opinions about. But that's fine.
I mean it is fine.
I mean look at what I just said, you know. You know people, people in comics are not famous but if you take it as a content that we are within a sphere, of course people are going to have all their views about me or what I really think and things like that. And that's fine. In fact that's what the book is kind of about. So what has changed? I mean really, I think if, if you want to dig into it is is what the.
How we were going to crack it to say something new. I think I've always, I've always liked the Beowulf milf. Milf? Jesus Christ.
[00:18:17] Speaker A: I don't now I want to read this book.
[00:18:19] Speaker B: Well, the Beowulf MILF is only in the. Is only in the Robert Zemeckis version where Grendel's mother is a. Is a very live and golden Angelina Jolie. That's actually the bear but.
But the myth, I've always loved it of how he would present it I think didn't really come until I realized that you could sort of modernize it and reposition it with this science fiction bent. And I love pulp sci fi so be it. To be able to do an illusion to war the worlds as well, really, really exciting to me. I mean I love the Republic serial era era of the Buck Rogers. I love Flash Gordon, I love shit like that. Listen, if it's old I probably like it. Magnus Robot Fighter also a good example.
I heartbroken by the loss of Greg Hildebrandt a couple of years ago or maybe last year because again times a flat circle. I think it was last year.
But to that point before his passing we were collab we were going to collaborate on a cover for one of my books at Heavy Metal. And there's few things more Steve Orlando than getting on a call at age 38 and having basically everything in common as far as your likes and dislikes with someone whose age is the inversion of the numbers in your age at age 83 and we're like Russ Manning, fuck.
[00:19:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:35] Speaker B: You know, so I've always loved this kind of storytelling. The question is, how do we present it in the modern context?
And this mashup finally was the way. So, like, yes, I could have done this in 2010, and it probably would have been Beowulf meets something. Would it have been more of the worlds unknown?
But this celebrity and deification of people is something that has been unsettling to me for quite some time.
And again, I think it's a clusterfuck of unfairness because people deserve to not be on all the time. They deserve to have, you know, like a person working at Walmart, which is a very respectable job, deserve, you know, is allowed to make mistakes and be infallible and sometimes say the wrong thing.
We don't allow that to people when they achieve a level of prominence. Now, of course, like, I'm not a bleeding heart because they also have so much money that they could just, you know, like, whatever. But, like, I'm not saying that the struggles are the same, but we all deserve to be people.
[00:20:34] Speaker A: Absolutely.
I mean, you are balancing satire, drama, dark undertones of things. Pulp, your. Your sci fi, pulp saga, retro sci fi, pulp saga on this. Was there a. Was it difficult to balance satire versus some actual story going on here? You know, how would this, this. This creation of this balance work?
[00:20:56] Speaker B: Well, that's a good example. So, first of all, I was actually just talking to Tim Sheridan about another book recently, and I sort of. I said something that I do kind of, I've been considering since, like, in a way, everything is satire.
So. And I think that's true. You know, that's a different podcast, but I do kind of think it's true. So in that way, everything is satire. But as to the telling, and what I mean by that is, like, everything is. Even if it's not intentional.
[00:21:26] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:21:29] Speaker B: I mean, look, capes comics themselves are almost the satire of justice, because we both. I mean, how often does it really go that way in real life? Yeah, you know, you know, like, franchises like Law and Order are wish fulfillment of like, there is. I would argue that it's extremely unlikely there's a cop like Olivia Benson that really cares that much. And there may be, by the way, and I'm happy to say that if there are, but it feels like we wish this person existed.
So in regards to that, I think the telling changes based on the tone of media.
And right now, like, yeah, listen, Werewolf is going to have some wild tonal shifts. It's a gonzo book. But my friends, we live in a gonzo time.
And you know, not to get all political, but the president posted a fucking video of him taking giant shit on protesters earlier. An AI video this weekend, so. And again, like, I think it should be clear what I think about that. But even if it wasn't, I submit to you that what the is satire in a world where that happens.
[00:22:36] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't understand how that goes. Just like, okay. With regular Dales. Just post this video. This is cool. Whatever. I, it battles me. Oh, Steve, I don't know, man. Like the, the, the. The. The benefit of telling stories in comics though, is also you get to do. You get to have fun with it. And I think that's what you're, you're telling a, A story that needs to be told in the sense that like you mentioned, you have a back there. Actually there's meat to it, but you also get to have fun with it. This is a, this is a medium that's not, you know, you're not making this like award winning, Academy Award winning film or documentary.
[00:23:09] Speaker B: Like, we certainly.
[00:23:10] Speaker A: No, you can win awards.
[00:23:12] Speaker B: Come on now.
[00:23:13] Speaker A: I apologize. I meant like documentary. Like you're telling a traditional, like an actual documentary of like, you know, researching this actual subject.
[00:23:21] Speaker B: You.
[00:23:21] Speaker A: You're telling it in the comic book and that's. That's what's cool about it. I think, I think. I love that. You know, Mark Russell is really good at the idea of telling these satire stories based in real worlds that in my opinion, that I like that are there that are like, okay, this is a legitimate thing going on, but okay, I'm reading it in a comic book format, so I'm getting a little bit of an easier palatable read here. Is that, I mean, do you enjoy this? I mean, this is something like, obviously you can tell, you're very, very passionate about it, but are you. Do you enjoy telling stories in this way and that's why you write comics specifically about this stuff.
[00:23:48] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, and also Mark, I mean a. Mark is far smarter than I will ever be. And I, and I think he is the master of this shit.
[00:23:54] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:23:55] Speaker B: Like, truly, I love Mark Russell.
[00:23:57] Speaker A: He.
[00:23:58] Speaker B: He one of the Bo people I've ever met in the world. He came to Boston, a seafood city, and then he nagged our fish and said the salmon was better in the Pacific Northwest, which it was. But that's one kind of fish, my friend.
But, but that is Mark Russell. We're sitting at a restaurant in Boston. He's like, this fish is fine. I'm just like, what the hell's wrong with you?
But that's why he's smart.
[00:24:20] Speaker A: That's where he's Mark. Yeah, exactly.
[00:24:22] Speaker B: No, So I love what Mark does, and it is fun. I mean, like, that's the thing. Like, like, like there's so many fallacies in what people talk about. You know, people say, oh, like, I don't want anything with the message. Why does everything have to. In the same way that everything is satire, you know, why does everything have to have a message? These days, my friend, again, I submit to you, every single thing you've ever watched or read has a message, whether the creators intend it or not. I remember having this argument with my father years and years and years ago. We're talking, like, 15 years ago, and he's like, oh, you know, I love the original King Kong. There was no message there. Guess what? There was. It was racism.
But. But you just didn't see it. And maybe people even didn't even intend it. You know, like, intent is different than result. We can't help but put our views into our work.
And that doesn't mean, like, they're all polemics, but we are. By design and by biology, it is incumbent upon us to speak about and write about the world as we see it. Because guess what? We only have our set of five senses.
[00:25:19] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:25:20] Speaker B: So it's impossible to create something that doesn't have a message. It's impossible to not intend a message, but it's possible to create something that doesn't have a message. So.
[00:25:29] Speaker A: But those are the best stories. I mean, you know, not to interrupt you, but, like, those are the best stories in my opinion, because I feel like there needs to be some sort of grounding thing to me in a sense that, like, this story has to have that through line to have a. Okay, I can relate to this. But also, I want to see aliens. Like, you know, aliens aren't something I'm seeing in my backyard, but I am seeing some of the other stuff that's happening in the comic books, like this one in Mark comics and stuff like that. Like, I see that every day. So why not have that in my comics? You know? I mean, like, yeah, of course.
[00:26:02] Speaker B: You know, it's like Tim Vigil's Web witch. You know, I wanted like a, like, like a complicated commentary on the Internet, but also women getting penetrated by USB cords.
[00:26:10] Speaker A: Exactly.
But that's my point. Like, there is this spot. I mean, I, I, I, I.
[00:26:15] Speaker B: By the way, folks, that is a joke is kind of what happens in the book.
[00:26:20] Speaker A: But that's the thing. It's like, I like this format. Plus, you're partnered up with Marco on this, so you have some amazing artwork on this too. This is not just. We're obviously here talking to you about the comic book because you wrote it. But yeah, you obviously have some great artworks and visuals in this book that are worth reading too.
[00:26:37] Speaker B: And I love Marco's visuals because they are against type. You would not expect a book, this kind of story to look like this. I've been wanting to work with Marco for quite some time. He feels, well, douchebag phrase. He feels very European. But also it's because he is European.
[00:26:53] Speaker A: European weird.
[00:26:55] Speaker B: But I love that sort of inkier more. More like liquid style. I mean, obviously ink is liquid, so again, I sound like an asshole, but I mean, his line. His line style, it's a very fluid style and it's not what you normally expect. Again, you know, to me, it almost feels more like you like the sort of pulp sci fi you would get in the 40s or 50s or things like that.
And we're lucky to have him. He does an exceptional, exceptional job. And I'm really, really happy he was able to come on because, yeah, I don't want to do a book or be part of a book that looks like everything else if I can help it. And that doesn't mean there's something wrong with everything else. It means that we can't do the same thing. Folks deserve different kinds of stories and different kinds of art styles.
It's been great, by the way, to see David Telaski on covers as well for this.
Speaking of Hildebrandt, I mean, he's getting closer and closer every day.
When you folks see the covers he has for issues 4, 5 and 6, I mean, he's inching closer to that. And I'm getting. I mean, I was already extremely happy with David. I was lucky enough to be part of some of his first work in comics. So, like, every time we work together, it's like coming home. And he's an amazing, amazing cover artist. So I love the book and Mad Cave has been generous enough to bless me with an amazing set of collaborators.
And yet the hope is we entertain you, we make you think, and we present something that looks like nothing else on the stands.
[00:28:19] Speaker A: And I think that's what you get, the freedom, but the freedom to do at Mad Cave where not saying that there's constraints, you know, this. There's constraints at the Big Two. Like, you have a world to live in, a world to work in. You have rules to abide by, whereas you have only a certain set of rules to abide by when you're at somewhere like mad Cave. Because this is your story.
[00:28:37] Speaker B: Well, and that's why you want to do license work and originals at the same time. Time. It's not the same kind of brain work. And so the same way that you work different muscles at the gym, you want to work your creativity in different ways. There's no pro. It's not a pejorative to say that there are rules at the big two. And I don't mean that you intend that. But oftentimes when people talk about not being able to do something on, like, well, in My Wonder Woman or Batman or something, it's sort of framed as a complaint. It's not a complaint, at least when I say it. It's a reality for a variety of reasons. When you are looking at a character that appears, you know, across merchandise and things like that, there's that weight and that expectation.
And a good example that, you know, I learned when there is, like, there are things that you might not think matter but come down to. For example, like, if a kid Googles, this character may not, you know, be ready to see. And that's like, what can appear on the same page that one of these characters, not even can they do it, or, like, are they doing it? But could a kid accidentally come across this? I think that's very reasonable because you're not, you know, when you are working on a major, major media character, even if you're doing, like, Black Label, whatever, like, guess what? That exists in the same world once it's out as the DC Ink version of that character.
And then there's, of course, the weight of story, right? Like, you are putting a brick in a monolith that in the case of someone like Superman, Batman or Wonder woman is 80 plus years old. There are so many bricks there.
And sometimes you take bricks out to make the Jenga analogy. If you're, like, retconning or things like that, though, I try to avoid that. But the point is that cannot crumble.
[00:30:20] Speaker A: Yes, I understand that. I was just.
[00:30:23] Speaker B: You couldn't tell 100, but I think a lot.
[00:30:26] Speaker A: You couldn't tell the War World story using Batman or any of those. That is more like your rules are, you have certain places, there's certain stories that need to be told, continuity. There's a world, you know, we're living in the DCKO right now. And so there's, like, this. This, like, things that are going on that you have to, like, not abide by, but, like, you have to follow in, which is good, because like I said, there's a. There's a need for that. You know, we need writers like yourself to do that. Like, I'm not saying that everybody should be able to do whatever they want because it would be chaos.
[00:30:54] Speaker B: Well, the difference is when you're. When you're doing originals, you. You're making your own rules. Right. But it's still, by the way, important to have them. Otherwise you're off the rails, you know, and by the way, that can still be very interesting.
But it might not be a story.
It might be art, but it might not be a story.
[00:31:10] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:31:11] Speaker B: You know, things still have to. That you set up, still have to pay off. You know, you. Folks who buy the book still need to feel satisfied and get. And get a meal, you know, so. But yeah, there is interest. There's interest and challenge in working within the constraints, and there's the opposing interests of not having them and realizing, you know, you still. Now it's all on you.
[00:31:31] Speaker A: You have nothing to go back on. This is. This is all you now.
[00:31:34] Speaker B: You can't be like, no, it was Bill Mo. It was Bill Marsh. No, no, no, it was me also.
[00:31:40] Speaker A: I say big two. I call it the big two, but it's not really. I meant more on, like, intellectual property or things like that, because like, you Obviously did Godzilla vs Boston, too, where there was you. Godzilla. Can't all of a sudden. I know where, like, you know, I don't know, turn invisible or something. There's something you can don't. You can only do certain things that this. The lore or the story has involved, and you have to get to abide by. It's really what I meant.
[00:32:00] Speaker B: That's a good. That's a great point, actually, because if people read My God versus Boston story specifically because there were the whole book, I was very lucky to be part of it, our story from Boston.
[00:32:10] Speaker A: So hopefully it would make sense.
[00:32:12] Speaker B: Okay, well, slow your roll. I'm from New York, but I live.
[00:32:15] Speaker A: Yes, I mean, you reside in Boston, but.
[00:32:19] Speaker B: So ours was set in the 1800s. And. Exactly to your point, Toho was great to work with. They were exceptional to work with. But their one note was that because that was before he would have encountered the. Or before it would have encountered the atomic bomb, that wild gods, Godzilla could breathe fire. It could not be atomic fire because ours was in the 1800s.
It was like a Melville take for folks who haven't read the book. So that's a great point. Yes. Like you, you need to make things work. And that can be like that for me at least. I like that challenge.
[00:32:50] Speaker A: And I just, I've talked to recently. There's the End of the World as We Know it anthology book that just came out that's based on Stephen King's the Stand. And there was obviously certain rules, like if someone based a story based before the Stand, they had to do certain things. Or if it was 100 years in the future, they're like, well, there wouldn't be as many cell phones because cell phones didn't really exist as much because that's kind of went away before everybody had one and so on. So it's the rules you have to go abide by.
[00:33:12] Speaker B: And that's what a dream we.
[00:33:16] Speaker A: Seriously, we know. And I'm glad because I was born in Massachusetts, so. So seeing this story, I was waiting for this One for Godzilla 2 was great. It was great. It was like, this is. This is called I live in Maine now. And they're not going to do Godzilla versus Portland, Maine or Bangor, Maine. It's not going to happen. And so seeing the boss.
[00:33:31] Speaker B: We already did Godzilla fighting a giant lobster. And that's your whole gift. So.
So, I mean, I got the molasses flood in. Like there's as many Boston things as I can get in there. I do like living here, by the way. Like, I'm not shitting on Boston, but I. But it is not where I grew up. But I got. For folks who don't know, the molasses flood in Godzilla vs Boston is real thing. I just moved it up about back about 50 years in time.
[00:33:54] Speaker A: It's. Time is.
Time is flat. Right? You just mentioned that. So, yeah. So it's a. It's fine. So. So if a Warwolf, it's Mad Cave Studios again, one of my favorite companies to work with on the press side of this. They're phenomenal. They've got great, amazing. They send packages out to people and with like fun things to go around it, they're just good to work with. So I can imagine just the same similar situation on your side as a writer or a creator to be with someone like madkey for something like this.
You mentioned already. But it's a good company to work with.
[00:34:28] Speaker B: No, absolutely. I mean, it's great that people that support your ideas and not just support, by the way, but like want to challenge them and make them better. Like, that's part of the game and that's what Mad Cave does And we're very thankful for it. The royal. We. In this case, I'm very.
[00:34:41] Speaker A: Yes, yes. October 22nd is when it hits shelves everywhere. Issue one. So we're right here. We're in the week of this episode. I mean, this. This issue dropping. If you go to your store and they have a shell copy, grab the copy. Because I. I liked it a lot. It was a lot of fun. I.
I had to. Hard to say that I haven't.
It's hard to say that I have not liked any of your stuff. Like, your stuff is amazing. I don't pretty much write something. I'm gonna pick it up.
[00:35:05] Speaker B: I've written something that pissed you off, man. And that's fine.
When you know, like. Like, it's bound to happen. And that's okay.
[00:35:12] Speaker A: It is. It's funny. I got villainized once because I. I, like. I said I live in Maine, and I read a Stephen King book that I didn't like, and someone was like, how do you do? Well, it's got, like, 50 books out. It's obviously something I'm not gonna like at some point. Like, let's be honest. Come on. He can't be perfect all the time. And every. Some of people's eyes. It's not true that he has to.
[00:35:29] Speaker B: Write the Shining and Stanley Kubrick makes it better.
Are we doing that?
[00:35:34] Speaker A: Because I have the Shining shirt on. No.
[00:35:36] Speaker B: I didn't even realize that. You've been too close to the thing. Oh, my God. No, I genuinely. I didn't even notice that.
Not see that.
But. And by the way, like, I mean, the Shining book isn't bad, but I do think his. His. His, like, I think it's a game of scale where he's, like, still angry that one of the greatest filmmakers in history made some changes to it. And he's like, mo, but what about my book? I'm like, why don't you go back to your castle of money, my man, and just let it.
[00:36:03] Speaker A: Also, how many adaptations of Stephen King books have been absolute. So, like, there's that too. So, like, you can't be, like, picking on the one that was really good and then being like, oh, all these other ones are actually. There's a bunch of trash ones. There really is. You know, and it was. I don't know what book it was. It was Dead Zone, I think. I think it was dead.
[00:36:21] Speaker B: Like, Dead Zone. How.
[00:36:22] Speaker A: No, no, no, it wasn't. It wasn't Dead Zone. Cell. It was Cell. It was Cell. Because the movie also sucked. I didn't like, not Cell is the one where.
It was with the. The movie was with John Cusack and.
[00:36:36] Speaker B: Oh, okay. So I.
I don't know what book that is. And for a moment, I was about to jump into action because I thought that it might have been the Tarson movie with Jennifer Lopez and Vince.
[00:36:46] Speaker A: No, I actually love Cell movie. It was.
Yes, it was. Who was it?
Samuel L. Jackson and John Cusack were in it. And the. The book was just. I don't know. It just. It was weird. And the adaptation was even worse. So I was like, this is not even good. Someone was like, how dare you? And I'm like, cool. You're always gonna pick up someone's favorite movie and they're gonna shit on you anyway. But, like, you know, so, like, I like something that someone else isn't. Like, it's the way the world works. But, yeah, I mean, I'm a fan of your writing. So whether you write something I like or not, you're. You're. Yeah, I can read you like, I can read you.
[00:37:22] Speaker B: I aspire to have good humor about it. Like, there's a story about Michael Caine being in Jaws, the Revenge, which is often thought of as one of the worst movies ever made.
And. And for folks who don't know, it's a movie in which a boat, a wooden boat, which is famously not explosive because it's a sailboat, impales Jaws at the end, who is also improbably breaching up with his stomach up like an orca, and then he blows up. But once again, it's a sailboat made of wood. Nothing explosive, but he explodes as though he's made of dynamite, which is famously as well, not what sharks are made of.
And when someone asked Michael Caine about being in that movie, what did he think about being in one of the worst movies ever made? He said he thought that it bought his mother a very nice house.
[00:38:04] Speaker A: Yes, I. I like the movie.
[00:38:09] Speaker B: Well, is that a problem?
Love that for you.
[00:38:13] Speaker A: Well, to me. To me, it's always been. I like things that are based in certain universe. Like, I like Jaws. So, like, anything they can make with Jaws, good, bad, or ugly, I'm gonna watch. How about that? It was watchable to me.
[00:38:22] Speaker B: Go to. You go to Cape Cod, and you're like, why are these sharks not bouncing?
[00:38:28] Speaker A: Well, all. All the boats in Cape cod just have C4 attached on the inside. You didn't know that? They just. They just come with it from the manufacturer so that when this happens.
No, I'm just kidding. But. So Werewolf comes out October 22nd from Matt Cave Studios. Steve, you are. Keep up the good work, because I absolutely. Like I said, I absolutely love everything you're putting out right now, and I think it's great. I think you're a hard worker and it shows, but, yeah, it's something. Coming out on Warwolf October 22, number one, grab it everywhere. I really appreciate you taking your time out to talk to me today.
[00:39:03] Speaker B: It's my pleasure.
[00:39:04] Speaker A: Yeah. And we'll talk soon. Okay.
[00:39:05] Speaker B: Sound good? Absolutely.
