Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to another episode of the Capes and Tights podcast right here on capesandtights.com dot. I'm your host, Justin Soderbergh. This episode we welcome New York Times bestselling writer of plants versus zombies, but also has written things like Bunny masks with our favorite artists or one of our favorite artists, Andrea Muti. He's done a Marvel adventure stuff over at Marvel, as well as a couple of graphic novels with his wife and other, among other things. This Paul person is known for Paul Tobin, but he has this new comic book coming out from Mad Cave Studios on June 5 called the Mammoth. It is absolutely tremendously wonderful, so everybody needs to check that out. So Paul came on here to talk about the mammoth comics and so much more. But before you listen, check us out on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Bluesky threads, all those things, but also like share subscribe rate review over on Spotify, Apple, all your major podcasting platforms. Check us out on YouTube. We have a YouTube channel as well as our website, capesandtights.com dot. This is Paul Tobin, New York Times best selling writer of the mammoth. Enjoy everyone.
I am recording now. I guess usually it says it, but it did it already. Well, welcome to the podcast, Paul. How are you today?
[00:01:19] Speaker B: I am good. Like, I was, we talked a little bit before recording, and like I said, I'm moving, so I'm a little stressed out about that. But, but you know, what's, what's spending half a million dollars? Who cares?
[00:01:31] Speaker A: Yes. Well, that's the funny thing. So I was thinking about like when my wife and I were talking about buying a house and we're like going through the financial stuff and all that stuff, and I'm like, I get stressed out about putting a five year loan on a car for like $20,000. I can't imagine. I'm like, oh, my gosh, like 30 years of half a million dollars. It's a lot of money.
[00:01:48] Speaker B: Yeah, we get kind of a cheap house. I live in Portland, Oregon, and property values are not, you know, it's like, oh, you want to rent this box? That's $6,000 a month, you know.
[00:02:00] Speaker A: Well, that's, my wife works, she's an engineer and she a structural engineer. And she's like, yeah, I'm doing like site survey, like inspections of trailers on like postage stamp size lots that are like 200, 5300 thousand dollars for like an actual mobile home. I'm like, what?
[00:02:17] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:02:18] Speaker A: Where are you at in Maine? I'm right outside of Stephen King's house. Like, I live down the street from Stephen King's house in Bangor, Maine, so other side of the country. Yeah, he's not lived there anymore. He just, like, he rents it out to, like, people who want to write books. I get, I don't know. They just put on his, on his road. His road is the widest road in the area, too, by the way. It's like three times the length, width of a normal street. And it's just extremely wealthy homes on it. You know, they're, they're older homes with their nice homes. And in front of his house, there's this patch of grass that goes from the street where you park and the sidewalk. And then his fence, he has this wrought iron fence with bats on it and stuff like that. And the dirt, it was always just dirt. There was never any grass there because people would park on the side of the road and they'd walk across the lawn and stand on the sidewalk and yada, yada, yada. So I was driving by the other day, and I was like, the heck are they doing? They put cobblestone in between the road and the sidewalk. Now on his, they just gave up, basically. Like, this is much better. People are gonna stand here and walk here anyway.
[00:03:20] Speaker B: Might as well put some benches here.
[00:03:23] Speaker A: I'm waiting for just to drive by and have someone's car be on it. Be like, oh, there's a parking spot.
[00:03:29] Speaker B: I credit Stephen King with helping me a lot because I enjoy his books. And when I read his book on writing and saw how much, like, changes and everything that he does from first draft to last draft, it, like, freed me up. Cause I was one of those people that, like, oh, my first draft is a precious child, and I must have it be wonderful. And now I'm like, first draft is just a pincushion. I will slice you up. I, you know, things will go. It doesn't make any difference to me. So, and, and Stephen King helped that a lot, just, like, looking at his corrections, and it's like, wow, that's just amazing.
[00:04:09] Speaker A: He's an unbelievable writer, but he's a great person, too. Like, you know, he doesn't, like I said, he lives in Florida. Let's be honest. He lives down there most of the year. And he has a, he has a house on the coast, uh, here in Maine, which, if it was me, Bangor is this small city in the center of Maine. Like, if you had the money and the time and the energy to be on the coast or in Florida, I probably would be, too. Um, but, like, he has his house here, and he. He visits. But he used to be able to just walk down the street. When I was in high school, I used to just walk. And to see him, like, walking down the street, no problem. And he was even. I think he's even popular, more popular then than now. And it's crazy to think that he's just a human being and you and, uh, he's normal, like all of us, but, like, people just put him to the standard, like, yeah.
[00:04:52] Speaker B: Is this yard work that I'm hearing? Is that coming through too much? Should I shut the windows?
[00:04:56] Speaker A: Nope, you're good. Yeah, I. I came into my studio the other day. My studio is space, and office space is a converted garage. And I came in here the other day, and it smelled like garbage, but we haven't put garbage in here in years. And I was like, I had the garage door, like, cracked open a little bit the other day to light some air in, and I'm afraid, like, a chipmunk got in and I couldn't get out. And it's dead in the corner somewhere. So I'm hoping that I don't have, like, a carcass rotting away in the corner or something.
I mean, it's also possible my three year old pooped in the corner too. That's also a possibility. So I might have a surprise somewhere.
[00:05:33] Speaker B: Always an adventure.
[00:05:36] Speaker A: But, yeah, I would love to have the garage door open right now. But again, I'm afraid of the sound, or not the sound, but the animals coming in. But, yeah, we're not here to talk about my son pooping in the corner or Stephen King, which we could. I don't, either way, I don't mind.
[00:05:48] Speaker B: It's all part of life.
[00:05:51] Speaker A: But you're a comic book writer. You're a writer. You're a comic book writer for the reasons being on here, and you've written things like plants versus zombies, obviously, Marvel adventure, so on and so forth. But how did you get into comic book writing in the first place? What was the driving force? Were you a comic book reader as a kid? How did you get into this crazy field?
[00:06:10] Speaker B: Voracious as a child.
Comics, books, anything. And I had, like, a constant supply because my grandmother was one of those people that just liked to buy things. She lived in, I lived in Iowa at the time. She had a farm with, like, maybe ten outbuildings in it. All ten outbuildings and her house were just filled with everything she could buy from garage sales. She would go to garage sales, like, literally two or three times a day. And just buy stuff and stash it. So it was always, there was always books and comics. So I grew up reading, I think part of the reason I write pretty much every genre is because I grew up reading every genre. I mean, I'd go through, and it would be like old Tarzans and little Lulus and then, you know, the marvel, you know, horror titles and, and superheroes and just anything, you know, Richie Rich. Yeah, I'll read Richie. I hate him now because I hate all billionaires, but I look at him now, and I'm like, you can do so much with that money.
But, you know, and I still have a lot of love for, like, even those Harvey things. If somebody, you know, somebody called me up and said, you want to write hot stuff? That goes to be like, oh, yeah, let's do it. I'll get a little dot in there. You know, it's, it's all fun stuff, so, but as weird as it is, and I look back on this, and I'm like, oh, okay. I was a dumb kid, you know, because I would, I would read all these comics, and I had, you know, favorite creators. John Muskema was like, ooh, he's so good. And, but even though I knew the names of creators, it didn't really set into me that they created the comics. They were just names associated. I didn't really understand that people would sit down and write scripts or sit down and, like, literally draw a page.
So that dumbness lasted until I was in college, and when I was in college, I met Phil Hester, and Phil was already doing comics at the time, and we became friends, and he's like, you want to do comics with me? And I'm like, wow, you can do that? And another thing I had thought, which was more true back then but still not true, but not true at all today, is that you needed to, like, like, if I want to work in comics, I have to live in New York. I have to be where the publisher is and things like that. I didn't understand that you could just be some dumb kid, you know, at the University of Iowa and make comics. So, yeah, I kind of started that way, did comics for a few years, got grumpy because I didn't like the comics of the time. Like, in the mid nineties. I wasn't fond of them, so I kind of got out of it. But my wife wanted to do comics, so I was like, I'll help her. That'll be fun. My wife is Colleen Coover, the artist.
And then I helped her do some comics. And that was fun.
And then we moved to Portland, and I met people like Jeff Parker and Steve Lieber. And Jeff was like, yeah, you want. You want the number of my Marvel guy? And I'm like, yeah, sure, let's do it. And I was writing. I was back solidly in comics, and I've been there ever since.
[00:09:27] Speaker A: And it's treated you perfectly well, right?
[00:09:30] Speaker B: I'm happy. Yeah, I get to do pretty much whatever I want. I mean, it's true that page rates haven't gone up in, like, 30 years, but, you know, I make some money now and then. Novels help. I do a lot of novels. I'm working on. That's the main thing I'm working on right now, is novels, because Bloomsbury contacted me, and they were like, yeah, we want four novels from you. I'm like, cool, four novels. And they're like, in two years? And I'm like, okay, let's do it.
[00:09:59] Speaker A: Here we go. Let's go.
[00:10:00] Speaker B: Yeah, so I've been really. That's half my time, and comics is about the other half.
And then, like, lately, moving has been the third half.
[00:10:12] Speaker A: Yeah, it's easy, right, right. Write a couple novels, write some comics, move. It's all at the same time.
[00:10:18] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:10:19] Speaker A: And obviously, cause of your comics, you're worth billions of dollars now. So you just have moving people coming in, doing all your work for you, right?
[00:10:25] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I got. I built robots to do it, and I don't know what to do with this money.
[00:10:31] Speaker A: But, I mean, so you have all these different things. You've done all these random. Like I said, you're not specifically tied to a genre. You know, you had your horror writers. You just talked about Stephen King, which 90% of his stuff is horror and stuff like that. But, like, where does something like the mammoth come from? Like, this book over here at Mad Cave Studios is absolutely wonderful. We got to read the first issue. I'm super pumped that it's out there, or going to be out there, obviously, June 5. But, like, where did this originate from? How did you get into doing this one?
[00:10:56] Speaker B: Well, I've been working with Mike Martz, who's the editor for over at Aftershock. Before aftershock had their problems, and I wanted to do more horror. We'd been doing bunny mask over there, and I wanted to do more horror. And I just got to thinking that, like, horror is so often, like, there's the ghost of this person. There's the ghost of that person, you know, this ghost, that ghost. And it's like, man, we're not the only things that die.
So I wanted the ghost of something bigger, larger than humanity.
So it's not the ghost of an actual mammoth, that's just the description of what this thing is. It's just something past the size of what people can comprehend. And I guess maybe, I think in terms of mammoth as far as not being able to comprehend, because my wife and I vacationed once in Paris and we went to the natural history museum there, the super old one that's like, the exhibits have been there for like, 200 years. And you walk up the stairs and there's holes in the stairs, you're like, be here.
But they had a, they had an actual mammoth exhibit, like a mammoth built to the size of a mammoth.
And, like, if you stand like 100ft away from it, you go, wow, that thing's big, man. You walk up to it and you're like, what the hell? And it's like, all I could think of standing next to this thing whose, you know, individual legs were larger than me, is like, man, I had, I had, you know, far back ancestors that looked at that thing and went, we should pick up spears and tack it. It's like, are you crazy?
So it's been in my head ever since as a thing of just immense size. It was just an incredible thing.
And maybe it was because, like, I stood next to, like, t Rex, you know, things.
And some of those dinosaurs, of course, were much larger, although mammoths are really big, but T rexes and other dinosaurs, we're talking like 500 million years ago or something like that, they don't seem real to me. They're like a mammoth was like, they're still digging those things up in Siberia and it's like, well, here it is, you know, so it's like those, those seem real.
You know, none of my, none of my ancestors ever hunted a dinosaur. So I guess if you go way back.
[00:13:52] Speaker A: Yeah, way back, yeah, exactly. But I'm glad you put on the COVID Doesn't have, actually has the size of this creature, this, this ghost, the spirit, this, this supernatural being on the front. So you wouldn't think that you stumble upon a mammoth in the middle of the.
[00:14:08] Speaker B: Yeah, that's part of the reason we did that. It's like, we're not talking about a big hairy elephant here.
[00:14:14] Speaker A: Your one star review is online. This is bogus. There was no mammoths in this.
[00:14:19] Speaker B: Yeah, all the, all the mammoth fans are like, God damn.
[00:14:22] Speaker A: Come on, Tobin, what are you doing here? And speaking of bunnymass, by the way, Andrea Mudy is one of my favorite artists of all time, by the way. Just, just wanted to throw that out there. Andrea.
Yes, he is a wonderful, wonderful person, but this is a supernatural horror. This has got, it's a ghost story. It's not your typical one, in my opinion. It has some, like, difference. It has heart in it as well.
What makes this different? I mean, than anything else that you've written or same, like, for fans of Paul Tobin or whatnot? Is this a different story that you're telling here?
[00:14:54] Speaker B: Type of story? Different story. But I think at the base, like you talk about, there's heart. I always want that. I always want character. Character is where I come from. I want to believe in these people because I've read so many comics that it's like I'm getting to the end of the story and I realize, yeah, I don't care. I don't care if the demon kills him. I don't care if the supervillain kills him. I don't know who this is. I don't care about him. I don't care if they win. So that's the first thing I want, is to make sure that people care about the people in the story. Because if people don't care about the people, if readers don't care about the people, there is no story. It's just, you know, I might as well just send a spreadsheet of what happens. It's like, it's boring.
[00:15:42] Speaker A: There's people out there that would want that, though.
[00:15:45] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:15:46] Speaker A: It's like, just, like, weird. Just give me the weird. Yeah, like, it's so weird that, like, there's, like, people out there who, like, re read reviews that have spoilers in it and things like that. I'm like, why would you want to know what happens without reading the book? Right? Yes.
[00:15:57] Speaker B: There's all sorts of things that I don't count. My wife and I were just talking, and I'm about video games. I work in video games sometimes, and there are people who like, like, the speedrunners in video games. I never understand that. It's like, oh, I got through in, like, you know, this amount of time, and it's like, but you didn't do all the cool stuff. You didn't get the character. You didn't, you know, wander into a cave and see some splendor, you know? And, like, some of my favorite games, like Skyrim, that was always the beauty part of it is, like, you'd just be walking along and there'd be, like, this hole and you're like, man, is this hole. Anything you go in, there's whole, this whole cave complex. It's like, I'm not going to go, oh, that's going to take. Take some time.
[00:16:42] Speaker A: And, like, I play grand. I played grand theft auto. My son's three. Okay, here's father of the year over here. My son loves watching. Play grand theft auto. And so when you're playing it, though, you have to. I have to be like, I can't, like, blow people up or, like, run over people or get hookers or anything like that, because that's just, like, bad parenting 100% right there. But he loves cars, so the ability for me to get into a car and drive it and change cars, we go to the garage to paint the car and all that stuff. It's funny, I find myself, like, parking in parking spots, like, on, without even watching. I'm just like, let's see if I can parallel park this thing. That's how I play video games, where it's like, I wonder what's on that sign. Let's go walk up to that sign and see what's on that sign.
[00:17:23] Speaker B: That's the fun, is just like, the exploration and the games that, that don't do that.
Like, I tried to play that Starfield, the new one from Bethesda, and it's like you go to a planet, and you go through a cave complex, and then you shoot to a different solar system, and you go through the same cave complex, and it's like, no, son, this is boring. You know, if I know what's around every corner, then I don't care. And that's, I mean, bringing it back to comics, that's, that's what you have. You have to let, like, Jeff Parker and I, Jeff's a friend and to a certain degree, a mentor. Like, if I, if I had to choose one writer that has inspired me the most, it's probably Steve Gerber, who I never met. Steve was, you know, his defenders comics were, um, amazing to me. And I can remember there was this one, uh, uh, ongoing backstory plot of a, uh, I think leprechaun. I'm blanking right now with a gun. And he wanted to kill the defenders, and he just kept getting closer and closer and closer, and then he just kind of basically gets hit by a bus, and that's it. You know, they never see him at all. And it was, like, great storytelling to me because it became, like a world.
Dave Sim, before he went insane in Jaka's story, was, like, largely the same. It's just like this bar. It's the whole story of these people falling in love and all these relationships forming or falling apart in this bar. And it's like, how is all this going to end? Is this person going to. Are they going to fall in and then a bunch of soldiers break in the door and kill half the people? And that's it.
It's like, that, to me, is fascinating storytelling, because it feels real to me, because life is chaos.
So storytelling, to me, like, that's why I think the characters are more important, because the reader has to know that this story can go anywhere.
I have four main characters in mammoth, and they could get stepped on.
Well, one of the main characters dies immediately.
[00:19:42] Speaker A: So say, it's like we were talking, like, two. I'm trying to think of how many pages it was in. So you have the COVID and then you have, I guess, like two pages in and Olivia's.
[00:19:50] Speaker B: And then there's a two page splash, and she's.
[00:19:53] Speaker A: Yeah, she's dead. And she's definitely dead in the picture, too. That's. That's the thing.
[00:19:57] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. That was one of those moments.
Other writers and I have discussed this. Jeff. Jeff and I again, and some of my writer friends, Ben Fisher, who's a writer, that. It's kind of amazing sometimes to, like, where we as writers lay blame.
Yes.
I told Arjuna exactly what I wanted to have happen when Olivia died.
And he drew it exactly as I told him. Just perfectly. Exactly. And I looked at the pages, and I'm like, damn, Arjuna, what are you doing?
That's terrible.
This is so, so horrible. Why would you do this? It's like, because you told me to. Yeah.
[00:20:45] Speaker A: Yeah. Exactly.
[00:20:46] Speaker B: Yeah. And there's been so many. When I. When I do a. I did a graphic novel called I was the cat with friend Benjamin Dewey, and cats die several times in it. And every time he'd kill a cat. I'm like, what do you. This is terrible, Ben. He's like, it's the script.
So.
[00:21:06] Speaker A: So let's be honest. I mean, animals, to a lot of people, pets, to a lot of people, are people who hold close to their heart. So trying to kill one in a comic book or a book or something like that is hard. I'm reading an advanced copy of American Rapture by CJ Leed, which is phenomenal. And there's a dog in it, and I'm thinking, like, there was a part where they could have killed the dog and they didn't. And I was, like, kind of glad they didn't kill it because I didn't want, like, them to kill a dog. But I'm also like, it probably would have made it more realistic if you did, because, like, dogs can die. This is actually a possibility. And if you just don't kill the animal off because you don't want to kill a dog, it takes away from some of it. But I'm like, but I also don't want the dog to die. So I was like, I was torn.
[00:21:45] Speaker B: That was complex.
Yeah. I mean, I've killed a couple of dogs in, in stories, but what I, what I will never do is have somebody kill a dog to show that they are an evil person.
[00:22:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:01] Speaker B: Because that is just stupid. And. And it's terrible storytelling. It's terrible characterization. I hate all the, I hate supervillains or villains killing for the sake of killing. Like, I never understand, like, the supervillain moment where, like, five of his minions come up and say, oh, this. This happened. And he's like, oh, yeah, kill, kill, kill. It's like, that's not an efficient way to run an organization.
And, like, killing a dog is, like, it should be. There has to be a story moment, or it has to make sense. Killing anybody has to make sense to me. There has to be a story reason and not a cheap reason.
[00:22:45] Speaker A: Olivia dies for a reason in this, people. Just so you know, she definitely dies for a reason at the beginning of it. And that whole two page spread, that, that whole opening segment of the comic book hooked me from the beginning, because, like, you have amazing artwork, amazing storytelling, and wonderful lettering, too. That's like, it's just shashoom across the front of it when the, when the building collapses, that, to me, is just like, it's. Honestly, I was just, I just taken off the wall to do something with it is one of my favorite two page spreads with lettering is DC, Hopkins and Noctera number three, it's this vroom, like, VRR next to a tractor trailer truck driving on the street. And it's so phenomenal to me that I actually have opened a third printing of that and put it in a frame to hang it on the wall, because I'm just like, I want that. And so, like, it's so funny. And lettering is underrated, in my opinion. And that, to me, that just, that whole package on that whole two page spread there where Olivia dies, it's just, it's just like, it's phenomenal. It's like, okay, now I want to read this book, and then it just gets. It gets better. In other ways. Like, obviously, there's not as many gruesome kills in this first issue as that is right there. But again, there's that heart. There's the character, there's the mystery, there's a horror, there's the supernatural part of it. It's just like a, I don't know, there was something about it. And I think the name of the mammoth caught me. Anything mad Cave puts out right now, I honestly has my attention. But then, like, the creators, you know, Andrea is one of them. If he's doing something for mad Cave, I'm going to make sure I pay attention to that. And then there's like, the artwork and the names and the name. The mammoth caught me and I was like, ok, this seems interesting. Obviously, the solicitation and then the first two pages of that, I'm in. Okay, let's go. Let's do this. And like I said, you had a great creative team there, and we shouldn't, you know, discredit and not say, pippa Boland is also the colorist, who is a wonderful too. And, oh, and the Charles Pritchard is the letterer, just so people know that too. That's important when we talk about lettering. But like, yeah, it's beautiful. Right off the bat, it's a complete, it's a complete story with a complete team. And I think that's amazing by it. But, yeah, right off the bat, I'm like, oh, this is going to be so good.
[00:24:45] Speaker B: That's one thing I really like about working, like, in indie comics. Like, when I was working at Marvel, I often didn't know the creative team until my scripts were completely done. And they, you know, it was just like, I don't know how to write for someone if I don't know who they are because different writer or different artists have different strengths. And I like to, depending on how I know them, I like to kind of, I'm not sure I should admit this, but I like to kind of go towards their weaknesses and, like, kind of push them in areas because I think it can get some passion in that way. And an indie team can build as a team and all have this individual passion of we want to do our best.
And it's like, you need that passion in comics because, I mean, we jokingly talked about it before, but we don't make a whole lot of money doing this.
Some of the prices I've done, the amount that I got paid initially for Colder, which was one of my big horror series, was, I should not. I just won't mention.
But sometimes as a writer, it's like you almost have to do that because I can write a lot, but generally an artist is going to be doing one book a month, if, so, if I, as a writer, can take down my page rate so that their page rate can go up, I gotta do that. That's, you know, I have to. And you should as a writer.
I mean, it doesn't feel good because I don't, you know, you get checks sometimes and it's like, woo, I almost can get a coffee.
I ended up making good money on colder because it sold well in trades and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I mean, and sometimes you take those gambles, and sometimes, sometimes I write enough that I can do a couple of, couple of things now and then, absolutely for fun.
And in fact, I do do things absolutely for fun because I found out, like, how this is like, maybe eight years ago now.
I almost quit writing, almost quit comics entirely. It was at a time when I was doing a lot, um, and, uh, I was so burnt out and I just didn't care. Um, and I realized that literally everything that I was writing was, uh, for publication, which sounds fun, but it's not because I got into writing to have fun and do whatever I wanted. And if everything is for publication, then there's always an editor, there's always thinking about the readers, thinking about, you know, continuing stories. So I solved my not wanting to write by writing more, but I write things specifically not for publication. And I'm doing some of that right now with like, I'm falling in love with a lot of old public domain, golden age characters. And it's like, you know, if I want to sit down and write a, you know, Gail Allen and her girl space patrol story, I can do that. I can, you know, do a prose story and just have fun. And that allows my passion to just continue, and it works. The passion into other things.
[00:28:18] Speaker A: So you wrote a bunch of, they're on your website, aren't they?
[00:28:22] Speaker B: I've not started. I've done like, write ups of characters, but I haven't started publishing the stories yet. And by publishing, I mean just putting them out there, the word publishers on.
[00:28:35] Speaker A: The website, probably for saying this, technically, you are publishing them.
[00:28:38] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, they're fun. Right now I'm working on one with Olga Mesmer, the girl with the x ray eyes.
[00:28:46] Speaker A: So she's, I appreciate this version of taking, like, public domain characters and not like what they're doing now is like these horror movies where it's like Winnie the Pooh slaughters a bunch of people like that.
[00:28:56] Speaker B: To me, it's just nice to me.
[00:28:58] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I just, I think I just saw in the solicitations this month that Savage dragon, number 271, has Mickey Mouse on the COVID Oh, really?
[00:29:05] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:29:06] Speaker A: Sorry. Steamboat Willie. I should probably say Steamboat Willie, but it looks like it's like the backside of Steamboat Willie, like, walking towards Savage Dragon and his group of people. And I was like, that's so, it's just so crazy like, that. I don't mind as much as, like, they're making, like, Peter Pan in the Neverland horror story and all this stuff, and I'm just like, why do I think what that is and make it the opposite? Like, create cool stories around the characters that they are? But, yeah, it was just kind of funny to see that online. How did you. So you have, you have a creative team. We just talked about how wonderful they are. But, like, Arjuna. Arjuna, how did you partner up with this group of people? Like, you know, obviously there's people you worked with in the past, but, like, how did this team come together?
[00:29:46] Speaker B: Pippa and Charles came from the publisher, but I've known, I've known Arjuna for a long time. We, we did a pitch together just matched up by the publisher a long time ago, and the pitch never came through.
But, man, the pages that he turned in, I was like, I got to keep this guy around.
So we did maid men together at oni, and then feist.
We had another book in production when aftershock went down, which is too bad, because the pages he was turning in for that, I think were some of his best ever.
And then, yeah, I just really like working with the guy. He tells stories really well.
There are two things that I look for in an artist, and one is the art good?
And obviously that's important. But honestly, the main one to me is, do they tell the story?
Like, having said that, I didn't like comics in the nineties. The nineties comics, to me, often were really beautifully illustrated, but they weren't telling the story. They were just people standing around looking at the camera going. And it's like, yeah, but you're talking to that person over there. You're staring at me.
I need people who can tell a story. There's a sequence sort of, it's not really a car chase.
Can't really explain it without giving things away. But there's a sequence coming up in mammoth that I was like when I was envisioning that, I'm like, well, Arjuna's the only guy who can do that, he's it.
So, yeah, it's my favorite sequence in the whole series.
This sort of, it's not a car chase, but I'm just going to call it car chase.
And he turned it in and I'm like, yep, that's what I was thinking. It was even past what I was thinking. So it was like, yeah, I love working with Arjuna.
[00:31:55] Speaker A: Why did you do it that way?
That's exactly what we were thinking. That's why. Oh, okay.
[00:32:01] Speaker B: But it was like, it was interesting. Like, we did, Arjuna and I did a podcast, like, maybe a couple of weeks ago.
He's hard to team up with on podcasts because he, he's in Italy. So it's like, you know, getting him up at three in the morning, just sleep.
[00:32:20] Speaker A: I live that life. It's great because it's awesome. Like, when the publisher or the publicist was like, oh, do you want the artist, too? And I'm like, yeah, sure. And it's like, but we have to do it at 11:00 at night because they're in this place. I did one with, like, we were in four different continents. Like, it was insane. Or four different countries. I mean, it was, it was insane. On all the differences. Things are, someone was up at 11:00 in the morning. Someone was up like 06:00 in the morning. It was like 02:00 in the afternoon here. And it's just like, so hard. I'm like. And sometimes I'm just like, let's just get one person from the creative team on Paul can gush over how awesome Arjuna is. Arjuna doesn't need to be here right now.
[00:32:52] Speaker B: But, like, that podcast that we did, like, having said that, I've worked with Arjuna a lot and love the, love the guy. Like, that podcast came on and Arjuna clicked in, and I'm like, huh? So that's what he looks like, huh?
I never seen any, like, even a picture of him or anything. It's nice to actually, you know, meet him. I kind of wanted to just kind of shove the podcast aside and chat with him.
[00:33:21] Speaker A: Well, it's funny how, like, that, that's the way the world works right now. I mean, I've talked to people about how awful social media is in general, but how great it is because a lot of the comics they've created would maybe not have gotten off the ground without something like social media because you dm each other and you're like, hey, I'm looking for an artist. So on and so forth and things and relationships and partnerships have come together because of that. And then people still don't meet each other. I remember, uh, Scotty young talking on a podcast once about how, like, uh, his colorist, um, uh, Sean Francis, Juan Francis, John Francis. I can't remember the person's name. Um, Bellew. They never had ever met in person. And they, like, been keep. This person's been coloring his books for, like, 15 years, and they never had met in person. I'm like, you guys think that on a plane, in flight, we're at the same comic convention. Like, how did this not, like, how did this, you know, and so, yeah.
[00:34:09] Speaker B: People on other continents, because, you know, it's like, it costs a lot to go there, but it's like, at the same time, I work with, like, a couple of artists in Italy, and they're constantly like, oh, you should come visit me. And I'm like, man, that would be a tax free trip. You know, just. Just go there and write it off on my taxes. It would be kind of fun.
[00:34:28] Speaker A: It's. Some of the best artists are from, like, South America and Italy. Like, those are, like, where the best artists in the world are sometimes. And you're just like, it's like, andrea's living in Florida now, so I'm like, oh, cool, there you go. Yeah, you sound like you're from another country, but you're definitely living in Florida, which is awesome.
It's kind of funny how that works, though. Like, it is, you know, it's like, oh, I try to get. I tend to talk to a lot of writers on here, and it's funny because a lot of the artists are either on another continent or another country, or they don't speak very good English because, again, they're from a foreign country of some sort. Italy, South America, something like that. And it's just kind of funny. Like, well, I tend to have a lot of writers. I'm like, well, a lot of the writers of english speaking comic books are english speaking people from the United States. So it's like, I talked to a David Hasan from Australia, and he did, like, a power interview cycle from, like, 10:00 at night in Australia to, like, 06:00 in the morning, just back to back to back to be like, I'm gonna stay up all night and we'll just do this. And I got the very last episode. It's like, are you kidding me?
Yeah, so it's kind of fun. I mean, it's, with this, we're a world, small world, big world type thing. These people are all over the world, and you get the ability to work with these people.
[00:35:37] Speaker B: James got a lot of great artists, too, lately. It's just like, they really coming on. It's like, all right, this is sweet.
[00:35:45] Speaker A: Arjuna is going to be someone you're going to work with, probably again after this, and it's so great. And they don't live next door to you, which is amazing. And instantly, like, not instantly, obviously, because of time changes and things like that, but, like, somewhat instantly, you can get feedback. It's not one of those things. You're, like, putting paper, shipping it off in the mail and so on. This is, you're actually getting.
[00:36:06] Speaker B: I'm old enough to remember those days of, like, I'll send a letter and we'll see. You know, that would have been impossible.
[00:36:13] Speaker A: Well, then that's, that. That's the reason you mentioned about whole, like, you having to live in a place. You can be from Iowa, you can be going to school in Iowa and have the ability to draw comics. I mean, at this point, I mean, there are a few publishers in Portland, the Oregon area, but, like, basically all your comics would have to be published by, like, dark horse because you're, like, right there. But, like, other than that, like, it's, it's nice to have these, you know, ability to do the Internet nowadays, and that's what's cool about it.
[00:36:36] Speaker B: Yeah, you can, you can do comics online. And it's crazy. It's like, now when people are like, how do I get into comics? It's like, oh, man, it's so easy.
Just start doing comics.
[00:36:48] Speaker A: Just don't suck at it. No.
[00:36:50] Speaker B: Yeah, you're all going to suck for a while, man. I look at my early stuff, and it's like, I can see the germs of me learning how to write, and I can see the themes that I like to explore, but I can also just like, what were you doing here? What is this transition? What's going on? Which, again, like, coming back to, like, like, writing for fun, I think that's important because I think that's where you grow, because it's like, like, if you see a great artist, they usually, like, if you interview an artist, there's usually, like, a stack of sketchbooks in the background. And it's like, well, what do writers have? You know, they gotta have, we gotta have our sketchbooks, too. And it's like, I gotta have an area where I can explore and, like, learn how to build characters in different ways and learn how to write in different ways. I was talking with Brian Bendis the other day and we were talking about webtoon and things like that and learning new ways and being old dogs, learning new ways of storytelling and hit this or new formats and things like that.
It's really amazing to, you know, how format can change a thing. Like, I'm looking, I'm looking behind you there and there's some, lots of comics on the wall. And then on the other side I can see some graphic novels. And man, writing a 22 page comic is so different than writing 150 page graphic novel.
[00:38:16] Speaker A: Yeah.
So I'm a floppy guy. Like, I love floppy comics. I always will. I'm like, I don't want the paper industry to ever end because I want this. Like, I want, I love digital because, like, I read mammoth, for example, digitally because I have an advanced PDF of it. But like, I'm good. I have it on my poll list to have polled, to have physical copy because I want that physical copy still.
[00:38:37] Speaker B: And shout out your comic shop.
[00:38:39] Speaker A: Galactic comics and collectibles in Bangor, Maine. They're awesome. They're, they. He's a great, he's a very small shop, two rooms. Like, they're very, very tiny. But he like, works. He's like 75 members on his poll list now, which is crazy for a side shop. He is, and so on and so forth. But like, I'm always in a floppy guy. The problem is I also part of a book club at his spot where we buy read a graphic novel every month as well as I collect the comics that are collected in trade that have had my poll quotes on the back of it. So I do a review and they put my quote on the book. I have those over here, too. So there's, that.
There's a collection of plants versus zombies somewhere.
See this?
[00:39:20] Speaker B: Nice.
[00:39:21] Speaker A: I think you doodled in this one.
[00:39:25] Speaker B: Look at that. That's been hard. Yep. That's me on the right.
[00:39:28] Speaker A: And. But, yeah, and then the ones on the wall are actually from guests of the podcast. Like anybody who's been on the podcast, they're signed comics of those. Because I'm just comic collector, too. That's the other thing.
It's what it is. Yeah. 22 pages is a lot different. And that's funny about it is too. I read so many comics both for, you know, fun and for, you know, this podcast and the way our website every once in a while and I click to the bottom of a review copy and it shows the number of pages that are left. And it's like one of 22. I'm like oh, thank God. It's only a 22 page book.
And I'm like, mammoth, honestly, I went to the second page. I'm like, I really hope this is a 40 page book, because I really want more in this story. But, yeah, it's just kind of funny. I'm like, every once in a while, I'm like, oh, this is a double issue. Are you kidding me?
[00:40:13] Speaker B: When I was. When I was Mike was really. Mike Mars was really nice to me. Working at aftershock, like, the first issues, I was always, like, going, okay, how about 25? Because I just can't end this story right here, and I need these pages. And it's like, you would be like, I can remember, like, Marvel and DC when they largely went from, like, 22 pages to 20 pages.
It shockwaves through the writers industry because it's like, it's so different. It's so different.
It's amazing how much of a difference that can make. And it's like, it kills you. And sometimes you just can't quite get that story you want, or you have to do a bad transition, or a transition that happens in the middle of a page, which none of us like to do. Um, and it's like, it kills you. And it's like, it's fun for me to work in different formats because, like.
[00:41:11] Speaker A: Picture you being like, I need to work pages. And Marvel's like, nah, you go, cool, I'm just gonna end this story here. Then. So many people are pissed about, like, you're in the middle of a conversation, and the story just ends.
They wouldn't let me have any more pages.
[00:41:24] Speaker B: I read. I read a lot of, um. I've been reading a lot of golden age comics lately, and it's amazing how many, uh, ending panels are. Oh, by the way, the villain's plane crashed and he died.
It's like, well, I mean, there is.
[00:41:39] Speaker A: There's. There's a. I see so many. I talked to so many more people. I've only talked to a few people in publishing on here, and I see so many more of your side of things and the side that, like, the number of people who are like, I just need two more pages. Or, like, a final issue of an entire series has been 30 issues, and you're like, can we make this 140? Because I really want two more issues, but it makes sense to only have one issue and so on. And. But the other side of it is, if you add that two extra pages or three extra pages, a lot of times it goes from that $3.99 cover price to a $4.99 cover price, because the publisher feels like they need to do that, and then it might not sell as well because of the price. And so there's that side of that things. And I saw that, I thought it was this new Bloodhunt series from Marvel. So they did the mature one, and they did the regular cover of Blood Hunt. And we're sitting at the my lcs galactic comics, and I'm looking, I'm like, huh, $4.99. And for the mature ones, $5.99. I'm like, what the hell? They've charged us more for, like, blood and violence. No, there's, like, three or four extra pages in extra one. And so it's like, okay, it's per page that you're really paying for these comics. And a lot of times people are like, see the 499 or 599 cover price? Oh, my God, it's so expensive. And it's like, well, there is actually probably more content in that book. Not that it's equal, because they charge an extra dollar for, like, two extra pages.
[00:42:54] Speaker B: The per page price is.
[00:42:56] Speaker A: But it's a part of me was like, oh, I understand that now. The only one that's still, like, holding steady is freaking Todd McFarlane over there was spawn at 299. Still 299, doing it. He's keeping it that way.
[00:43:08] Speaker B: But, yeah, sometimes, because, like, when I want those extra pages, I can tell the publisher, look, I just need extra pages. You don't even need to pay me for them. Yes, but I'm not going to. You got to pay the. You got to pay the artist, you got to pay the letter, you got to pay the colorist, you know, and it's things like that, and it's like, so that's funny.
[00:43:31] Speaker A: I just have this little, small story that I used to bartend, and I used to work with another bartender, and this person in the downtown Bangor area, this, this. He was, he had some special needs, and he used to come in, he's exchanges coins out for dollars, and the next day, he'd come back out and change his dollars off of coins because he needs to do laundry. And it was this whole back and forth thing. And every once in a while, he'd get a drink, and so he'd order a beer, and he'd sit down at the bar, and he'd have a drink. And we knew he was tight on money, so a lot of times, the bartender, each bartender would look at each other like, we're not going to charge this person. It's not, you know, not a big deal. And after a little while, they started paying whatever. And we said, but don't tip. Like, we don't want your tip. Just keep your money. We'll come to find out. He stopped tipping everywhere.
[00:44:12] Speaker B: He just went to all the different.
[00:44:13] Speaker A: Places he went in the downtown Bangor area, just stopped tipping. I'm like, we heard about it. And the reason why, he told someone that we told them that he didn't have to. And we're like, no, that's, that's their decision to do that. We were the ones that told you not to tip. Exactly. So that would be the problem is if you say, don't pay me, and also the other artists and the anchor and all that stuff.
[00:44:31] Speaker B: Like what?
[00:44:32] Speaker A: I didn't agree to this. This is bullshit. But, yeah, it's tough. And it's one of those things that you like, and, you know, even writing a novel, you could probably get a few extra pages and not, not make a difference to finish out that novel. But, like a comic book at 22 pages, there's, there's a science as an art to it. I think that art on top of actual physical, you know, drawing the book as an art to keeping that book makes sense in 22 pages and to work in 22 pages and make you want more, but also complete the issue to a point where you're like, I don't feel like I was, you know.
[00:45:06] Speaker B: Yeah, the pacing has to be right there has to be that moment. And it sucks sometimes to be, like, going, okay, 22 pages, I did it. And then you're, like, doing the formatting and you realize you had, like, two page seventeen s and you're like, oh, man.
[00:45:22] Speaker A: You just cut. Just do the old golden age. Just pull.
[00:45:25] Speaker B: But the greatest feeling is, like, when you like format and you're, like, looking at, it's like, page 14, page 16. Whoa, I have an extra page.
I'll tell a whole new story.
[00:45:36] Speaker A: Yes.
But I mean, it's a whole science art form. I think it's one of those things that, I think there is something to be said about trades and I know, and there's something to be said about waiting and wanting the whole story altogether. And. But I do think that we were in a, we're in an industry that the month to month thing is different to a lot of people. Like, a lot of people don't understand that whole aspect of it. Like, we have to wait an entire month to get another next episode of this. And I think it's because there's a small section of us, of the Netflix era of, like, everything just be able to be binged. And we're going backwards on that, which is great, I think, because now it gives us the ability. I can go into my local comic book shop and be like, did you see episode eight of X Men at 97? Unbelievable. It's crazy. Can't wait for episode nine without someone going in there and being like, oh, I haven't finished yet. I'm halfway through, kind of thing, and it's like, that ability is amazing. I think it's the same thing for comics. I think that the ability for me to go and talk to someone else about comics and say, did you read issues one, two, and three? Oh, yeah. You know, I can't wait for actually four. And you have a month to discuss that before the next.
[00:46:40] Speaker B: To, like, grow and build the story in your own head. I think that's really important. It's, it's more, um, cooperative between the creators and the readers. I think it's like, you build that way, digital can be tough. I'll never forget, like, when my wife and I did Bandit, when we released the first band that we released it literally the day after we finished it, and it was online and people read it and we, it was less than 24 hours after we finished that people were saying, when is the next one? It's like, where?
[00:47:19] Speaker A: That's why I love stumbling into something late. My favorite thing, honestly, I hate being ahead of the game. I love stumbling into a late, because they're like, the next season is, starts next week. I'm like, I just heard about this thing back to back.
[00:47:33] Speaker B: So, because I don't watch a whole lot of tv, so, like, it can take me, like, you know, a year or so to, to, like, watch stuff. I watched the first fallout the other day. That was kind of fun.
[00:47:44] Speaker A: Fallout was excellent. I did like that a lot, but, yeah, yeah, the comic books are like that, I think, nowadays, and I think there's, I think there's a borderline, I'm sorry, but I crap all over this all the time. But, like, the last ronin coming out every three or four months was too much, too far apart from an issue. It was like, I know they had production and there was always, you know, all that stuff, but, like, that's too far. I think a month, maybe a month and a half. That's about where I'm at.
[00:48:10] Speaker B: One of the things I like about Mad Cave is before we start releasing a series, we're largely done with it.
So we don't need to worry that much about production. We don't need to worry too much about the pace because some artists are like, oh, I can do a page a day. And some artists are like, it's page every three days for me. So it's like, if they're a page every three days, you can't, you know, publish them monthly and have them start right away. You know, it's like you need to build up a little, a little, you know, inventory of the story. And it's like, it's. And it's really nice because it allows me to, like, build a story in a different way because, like, again, when I was working at Marvel, the pace was so tough that I was almost, I swore I'd never do it, but there was one time when I was sending partial script to a, to an artist because I just didn't have time to finish the story. And it's like, that can really suck storytelling of that type, because you start to do things where it's like the mad cave way. I can be on page 17 and go, oh, you know what? I just really had this story come together in my mind. But something has to now happen on page three for page 17 to work. And if page three is already done or set in stone, you can't do that. Or even not just page 17 and page three, but, like, issue three versus issue one. When we did mammoth, I could build the entire story in my head and make it more cohesive. And that's really important. I think it, you know, the characters are stronger that way, the story is stronger that way. But it's, you know, it's obviously tough for a publisher because it's like, why don't we continue to pay you with having no income?
[00:50:12] Speaker A: It is interesting, but it's almost like you would rather be like, you have a five. So mammoth is a five issue miniseries that hits June 5. That it almost nice to have a trade. And then you split it up into issues like write the trade, and then we'll take the trade out and split it. Kind of write a trade.
[00:50:27] Speaker B: Writing like 100 whatever pages is so different than writing the individuals. And it's like, which is fun.
[00:50:34] Speaker A: Three issues in, like you were, if you were, say you were three issues in, and then you put issue to issue one. So Arjuna is drawing issue four. When issue ones on the shelf, then you're in a little bit consistent. And that's, honestly, that's why anchors even have jobs nowadays. I feel like it's because it's Marvel and DC's. They're, they're so fast on getting their things out that someone can't pencil and ink their own stuff because there's enough time to do that.
[00:50:57] Speaker B: Arjuna is long done with drawing mammoth. Long done.
[00:51:02] Speaker A: So that's, that's. And I like, I like the idea because I don't have to wait. I know that the only issue that could possibly come up is some sort of printing issue or a, which is still a printing issue, a misprint. Like, we've had that before where, like, it came in. It's like, missing half the pages. Then you're like, okay, cool. We have to delay it a week or two, get the new issue in or whatever.
[00:51:19] Speaker B: Right?
[00:51:19] Speaker A: But now I know that, like, you know, June 5, July 17, all these dates are going to hit, and I'm going to get this issue and I can put it on my poll. Be happy.
[00:51:26] Speaker B: Yeah. I have on my email tab right here, I have the lettering proof for the fifth issue. So I'll do that today and that'll be that.
[00:51:36] Speaker A: Yeah. Then you can move. No? Yeah, I mean, so we talked a lot about this thing, but we'll wind down here in a second. But for those who don't know, what is your description of what the mammoth is for people? Like, if you're giving your elevator picture.
[00:51:51] Speaker B: Of what the mammoth is, I never do those.
I'm one of those writers that needs to write the entire thing to know what I'm writing.
So I don't really do it. Just. I'm sorry.
[00:52:02] Speaker A: That's fine. You're good. It's a supernatural story, right? I mean, it's basically, it's a horror ghost story where this monstrous phantom disappears every decade and comes back. Right. That's kind of an idea. And there's this group of people that go to investigate, and Olivia, obviously, we've heard Olivia, rest in peace, passes away. And again, there's a lot more into it than just simple. Like, there's a lot more comics out there that are just like, here's. Here's this comic to scare you. You know, there's this comic that has gross gruesomeness to it and things like that. And I think that there's a lot more into this and a lot more depth to this emotional depth to this story that I don't even know about yet because I've only read issue one. And I think that there's a lot more going on than I can. The more that meets the eye, I.
[00:52:45] Speaker B: Think character tension is character. And, like, horror, for me, is more about tension than scare or gore.
I'm more of, like, I'm a big fan of korean horror, japanese horror, not as much fan of american horror movies and things like that, because they are more jump, scare, and gore. And I like a jump, scare and Gore can be like, you're in the theater or whatever, and you go, that's kind of scary. But, like, some of the korean films, you watch and you're like, okay, that's scary. And then, like, you wake up in the middle of the night and you're like, oh, man, I don't feel good.
I'm scared, you know? And it'll last with you for, like, the tension, I think, is more important to build that. And like we've talked about, you don't really have tension if you don't have characters. Like, if you, there's no tension if you don't care if this person, you know, what fate befalls them, whether they live or die.
And I think it's important, too, that horror isn't just happy stories like their horror has to have. There's so many you can fall in as a writer, you can fall in love with your characters, or as a film director, or as anything. You can fall in love your characters, and you're like, I don't want bad things to happen to them. And it's like, well, then you don't have a story.
[00:54:16] Speaker A: Everything. Sunshine and rainbows over here.
[00:54:19] Speaker B: My friend Ben and I talked extensively about that, that haunting of Hill House series that they did. Like, haunting of Hill House, the original movie and the book are just terrifying.
And the tv series was kind of terrifying, too. But in the end, like, literally every character was better off in the end.
That's not horror. It's like everybody's opening presents at the end. Come on.
[00:54:47] Speaker A: You gotta make everybody happy. It doesn't make everybody happy. It doesn't make me happy. I tell you that much. But, yeah, uh, it is true. And then that's, I think that's good. I think that's what a good sense of a good comic book is, that that building of tension, that building of character, uh, in it. And Arjuna's artwork works so well with your story. And again, I mentioned that the colors are phenomenal and the lettering is phenomenal. Uh, and then again, I'm a big fan of mad Cave, so there's also a mad cave as a great publisher, so there's that too. There's an all encompassing, great, uh, great first issue. And I'm hoping that people read this series and pick up it up their poll list. Tell your local comic book store June 5 issue one comes out, so make sure you tell your lcs that. But you also. I'm going to talk about it at all, but, like, are you doing, you're doing tiny Tina's wonderlands?
[00:55:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:55:31] Speaker A: Coming out this summer?
[00:55:32] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I'm a big fan of the game, and the editor asked if I wanted to do that and was like, yeah, let's do it. I love that game. So it was kind of fun delving into that world.
[00:55:44] Speaker A: That's awesome. That's exciting. It's over at Dark Horse coming out in August. If you're a fan of that, that game, then you can check it out. But Paul, I appreciate you coming on, talking to comics and things with us. Is there anything else that you're working on right now? I'm guessing there is that you can't talk about? Is that true?
[00:56:02] Speaker B: Yeah, a lot of stuff I can't talk about. There'll be some mad cave announcements because I like, I really like the whole gang at Mad Cave. There's a, there's a couple coming up, three coming up, I think. And the novels, I'm working on, their middle grade novels called the versus series, still doing plants versus zombies.
I'm going to be doing an online comic and forgetting some stuff too, but yeah, yeah. Because I try to work like we talked about. I try to have every format and every genre going because it's refreshing.
[00:56:33] Speaker A: Yep. I can see that. I can definitely, I definitely see how that could help some of these people. Like, I was just, we had talked to and discussed talk about horror movies. Out there is terrifier, the guy who created terrafire, the movie, and I can't remember his name, but yeah, he makes these gruesome, brutal, like, puking in the movie theater type movies. And I'm like, how do you live in these worlds? And that's all you do. Like, how do you, like, eat your breakfast in the morning and not picture in your head? You're like, oh, this could be someone's brains or something like that. Like, I feel like you need to change things up here. I can't. Just can't live in that world. And I said, some people can do it, some people can't. So, you know, it is what it is. But you're doing a great job. I appreciate stuff that you wrote. I'm super pumped to get people. I mean, I'm big proponent for the mammoth, so I really, hopefully, people go out there and read the mammoth. I know, obviously mad Cave has trust in your, in your writing because they're working with you further from here, but, yeah, I think that show mad gave people out there that this is worth a purchase worth investing into. Paul and buy the book.
Sound good?
[00:57:38] Speaker B: I would pay for my house.
[00:57:40] Speaker A: Yes, please.
I really appreciate you taking the time out of your day to come on here and take a time out of moving to discuss comics. So I really appreciate it, and hopefully we'll have you on again in the future. But if not, thank you so much and have a great day.
[00:57:54] Speaker B: You too. Thank you.
