[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to the Capes and Tights podcast right here on capesandtice.com dot. I'm your host, Justin Soderbergh. This episode is once again brought to you by our friends over at Galactic Comics and collectibles in Bangor, Maine. You can visit
[email protected] this episode is Zach Thompson, comic book writer of books such as Nature's Labyrinth Cable, Khazar, Lord of the Savage Land, Yondu, Hunt for the Skinwalkers, Cemetery kids Don't die Project Reese, the dregs, as well as the currently being released into the Un being blow away in the upcoming release of the body trade in September, as well as a prequel to the Alien Romulus book, a movie that's coming out here in August, but the book will come out in October.
This episode, we packed a bunch of stuff in, talking to Zach about all the comics he's written and a little bit about why Zach got into writing and the things that he stands for and believes in in these books that he's writing as well. So check this out. This is Zach Thompson. But before you do, follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, blue sky threads, all that stuff. Rate, review, subscribe over on Apple and Spotify and everywhere you get your podcasts, as well as visit
[email protected] dot this is Zach Thompson, everyone. Enjoy.
Welcome to the podcast, Zach. How are you today?
[00:01:19] Speaker B: I'm very good. Thank you for having me.
[00:01:22] Speaker A: Absolutely. I'm glad we were able to set this up. We were back and forth a little bit on trying to get this going, but like I said before we started recording, you were a very busy person, so I understand that. What's actually kind of funny is I moved it around on you having come closer, because we can get this out a little earlier. Uh, and then I actually had to cancel a couple episodes because I just got over Covid.
[00:01:41] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
[00:01:42] Speaker A: So it's been a fun, uh, like ten days or so. Uh, I got it, uh, I tested positive last a week ago Thursday, and then my wife and my four month old and my three year old all got it over the weekend, that weekend, uh, from me, probably. And so we've been. It's been a crazy household for the past ten days or so.
[00:02:01] Speaker B: Oh, man. Wow. Are you. Is everyone feeling better now?
[00:02:05] Speaker A: Everybody's great now. It's awesome. It's. It's definitely a different experience than four years ago, obviously, nowadays. It's just I don't want to get anybody else sick. You know what I mean, like, I don't, you know, I don't want to go out and just, like, cough on people and stuff like that. Otherwise, we know we're going to make through. It's going to suck for a couple of days, but other than that, it's, it's, it's not too, too bad. Um, but, yeah, I saw people coming out of San Diego getting it, and then, like, conventions and things like that, and I'm like, this is not fun. I just suck to get it. But once you get past it, everything's fine.
[00:02:34] Speaker B: Yeah, you just kind of have to, like, lay down for a week and feel better.
[00:02:38] Speaker A: And the worst actually ended up happening at a great time because my wife's aunt watches my kids, and she had surgery last week. So it was going to be kind of like a hybrid week of, like, taking my kids to work with me and so on. And luckily was that same week, so it was able to just be like, okay, I'm home for the week. You know, we're going to sit here, relax and stuff like that. I read some comics. It's sucky. Thing is, though, trying to concentrate during that time, like, when you actually are sick. I watched the first two seasons of west wing isolated.
I was like, I need something that's just like, I don't know. I got too frustrated with it. I had to turn it off. But I was like, my wife's like, oh, it's a good chance for you to read. I'm like, I can't concentrate enough on, like, I'll be able to read, but I won't be able to, like, ingest and digest the stuff that I read. So I got a little behind on my reading. But, you know, we're here. We're here to talk comics and stuff like that, so it's pretty good. And you're actually not that far from me. I'm in Maine, and you're in. Yeah.
[00:03:34] Speaker B: So, yeah, so we're actually pretty close.
[00:03:36] Speaker A: Yeah, we're neighbors. You're as close as closest as neighbors can be in, in, you know, northeast Canada and, you know, northeast United States of America. So we're like, definitely, when you're like, six or 7 hours from each other, we're like neighbors in this area of the country.
I just had a, a couple of my coworker and a family friend. I just visit Pei. It was like, you guys are a travel destination right now.
[00:04:03] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. So it's like a huge, like, tourist destination. I was going to call it a trap, but, I mean, it's definitely like, I grew up here, so it's sort of, like, very, like, normalized to me, but it's like, you know, really beautiful beaches, lots of seafood, that kind of thing. So people come from all over to.
[00:04:24] Speaker A: Hang out here, and, yeah, I mean, I haven't been in. I haven't been to Canada, and, I don't know, years. I was supposed to go in March of 2020, 2020. I worked my day job as I'm a graphic designer and creative director for a brewery I designed basically, like, beer can labels and things like that. And we had a beer event in Canada scheduled for the end of March of 2020, which got canceled and never rescheduled, so I didn't get a chance. And then I had a kid and another kid, and so it's been crazy. But, yeah, we're here to talk comics, and you're a comic creator, and you've been doing this for a number of years now. You've worked for a number of different publishers, but, like, were you a comic book reader as a young, young, young kid, or did you come into it late in life? Like, how did you get into reading comic books and collecting comics?
[00:05:13] Speaker B: So, yeah, I definitely came into it at a younger age, I joke. But, like, the big thing that, like, got me hooked was reading my mom's Archie digests. She had, like, a huge, like, box of them, and I just sort of, like, found them one time and found them really easy to read. When I was really young, like, it's probably only five or six and just, you know, it's just drama, you know, high school crap. But, like, I just found that really engaging. And then from there, my older brother collected comics, and this was probably, like, during age of Apocalypse, that kind of thing was going on. So I was reading all of his back issues. None of them made sense to me, but I was sort of just picking up things and reading them randomly and then sort of, like, I remember the first thing I remember collecting was spawn. I was kind of the perfect age for spawn. I was, like, eight when that series was really kicking off, and I just thought Spawn was the coolest thing I'd ever seen in my life, right? So I was, like, part of the McFarland Toys fan club, buying all kinds of spawn action figures and comics. And I was like, you know, the kid who's, like, mailing in the UPC so I could get, like, the exclusive McFarland toys, like, toy of the year or whatever. So, like, yeah, I got. I got hooked pretty quick.
[00:06:39] Speaker A: And then, obviously, you now are a comic writer. You know, and it's, you are very number, the large number of issues out there right now. You know, if you look at your league of comic geeks or things like that, you have a big bibliography of what you've written for various different publishers. What made you wanted to come into writing the comic books? Like, obviously, I think all of us have our mindset on, like, we want to do something in comics if we're a huge comic book fan. But, like, what led to writing? Was it because you were just not very good at drawing or.
[00:07:08] Speaker B: I mean, I'm definitely not very good at drawing, but I, it's sort of like a weird sort of set of circumstances where in 2011, I decided to go to film school. So I was like, I'm going to start screenwriting at the same time the new 52 is kicking off. I had been, like, a lapsed comic book reader for probably about a decade at that point. Started picking up new 52 stuff. Saga comes out a year after that, and I'm, like, fully hooked again. I'm going every Wednesday. I'm bringing people from film school with me to the comic shop, getting everyone else involved. At the same time, I'm working on a screenplay and trying to figure out how to make a movie. I ended up working on a film in 2012 and writing a film with a group of four different directors at film school. Produced the, like, third feature film that my film school ever made.
And in doing that, kind of walked away from it and went like, I don't know about this because there was so many, you know, it takes like, 100 people to make a movie and, and there's so many cooks in the kitchen that you start to kind of go like, oh, man. I really didn't get to realize the vision that I wanted to realize at the same time because I grew up in PEi and it was very remote here. There wasn't really comic conventions or anything. So I'm over in Vancouver. I'm going down to Emerald City Comic Con, and I'm on the bus coming back, and there's a guy sitting beside me with a drawing of dead man from Jeff Lemire. Like a commission from Jeff Lemire. And so I sit beside him, started talking to him, and that ends up becoming my co writer, Lonnie Nadlerez. That's how him and I met on the bus back from Emerald City. I start talking to him about the screenplay that I'm working on. Turns out he's going to the same film school. He's just in a class ahead of me, and we had never seen each other or spoke. We get talking. We both realize we love comics, but six months after we graduate, we go, well, what if we took this idea for the screenplay that I had and deconstruct it? Take the core premise, which ended up becoming her first book, the Dregs, which is like, I had this idea about a homeless detective in Vancouver, because we grew up in, or, sorry. We went to school in this area of Vancouver called the Downtown east side, where it's quite infamous, where there's, like, a homeless population that's sort of allowed to sort of just live their lives on this, like, eight square block radius in the city, and drug use is sort of unregulated. There's a whole lot of. It's just a crazy place. And again, I grew up in a very isolated little island, so I'm going to school out there being like, what the fuck is going on? Like, this is crazy. And so it just really stirred something in me. So Lonnie and I started to put that together, and we met Eric Swadski, who ended up drawing the dregs. He was a local artist at the same time as we were, like, thinking about jumping into comics. We had been reviewing comics for bloody disgusting. Who doesn't review comics anymore? But that's sort of what we were doing at the time. So we were very involved, like, going every Wednesday, huge poll lists, you know, reviewing comics when they came out and talking to local people. And by talking to local people and kind of getting involved in our local scene, we started to go like, hey, we have some ideas. Let's see if we can just put together a five page pitch. So we did.
We kind of waited a year, year and a half, and then submitted it to every single publisher that we could possibly get. Got nothing, like, you know, crickets pretty much across the board. But in Emerald City, 2016, we had sent it to Black Mask, and the guy who ran black Mask caught us, and he said, hey, can you come over here for a second? I just want to talk to you guys. He said, I looked at your pitch. Let's do this. Let's make this comic. And we were like, is this like a. Like, are we, like, is this happening? And he was like, yeah, let's make it. So, like, we sort of, you know, like, we basically just made a five page comic and showed it to everyone. And I think, like, I get asked this a lot, but, like, the thing that we did that, I think made sense and, like, kind of got us into the industry was we kept showing up every year we'd show up to cons and be like, I have a new thing. Like, you know, I'm still, I still want to do this. And eventually people go, okay, these kids aren't going away. Like, they, and so, you know, and also having the wherewithal to sort of get a team together, make a thing, and have it, like, be as professional as you possibly can, make it on your own terms. And, yeah, you got to pay people out of your pocket, and you got to invest some money and some time. But at the end of the day, the reality is, like, you don't usually get let into any creative industry unless you prove that you can do it yourself. So, yeah, I just sort of, like, I had my eye on the prize when I started to realize, like, okay, comics, you can just get five people together and make your thing. And after making a movie with 100 people and seeing how chaotic that was, I was like, I need to go the other way.
[00:12:36] Speaker A: It is true. And it's one of those in creator own things, you have a little bit more say on a whole overall arching thing, too, whereas a movie, there's a lot more other people saying what you can and cannot do. I mean, budgets aren't really, they're a thing in comics because obviously there's marketing budgets. There's all, but there's not, like, you know, a 522 page comic book, basically, depending on print materials, cost the same to make at different publishers. It's not like, you know, Marvel's using some sort of special ink that's going in these things. Like, there's, there's a, there's their costs about the same. So, like, there's not a budget in that sense either. So it's just getting these people together, making sure everybody's happy with what they're doing. It's a lot easier in that sense. It's obviously not an easy thing. I hate saying the word easy when I talk about creating comics because it's not easy. Um, but, yeah, I understand what you're saying there. Yeah. 100 people versus about five people, and it's a little bit easier to swallow and get that there. But, yeah, I mean, the dregs, was that 2017 you said?
[00:13:32] Speaker B: Yeah, 2007, actually.
[00:13:33] Speaker A: Whenever we actually dropped at black, black mask, and then it's just been, you've been, haven't stopped working since, right?
[00:13:39] Speaker B: Yeah, pretty much, yeah.
[00:13:42] Speaker A: But, I mean, so you, right after that, did the cable series, right? You did five issues of cable.
[00:13:48] Speaker B: Yeah. So, I mean, I joke, but, like, we got thrown into the fire really quickly. Because, uh, issue three of the dregs came out and was out on shelves, and that was, like, june of that same year. And, uh, Lonnie and I worked at the same day job, so we would, like, hide and write comics basically, while on, uh, a corporate payroll.
[00:14:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:08] Speaker B: And, um, my phone rings, and it's front, it says, marvel Entertainment, New York City. And it's like my cell phone. And I was just like, so I answered it, and it was Axel Alonso, and was like, hey, like, do you have time to chat? And so I, like, took Lonnie aside. We, like, booked a meeting room, and we talked to Axel, and he was like, hey, I want you to come write up Marvel. And we had, like, you know, the reverse of this is that, like, we had just met him in New York, like, a couple months earlier, just, like, said hi to him, gave him our books. Didn't think anything of it, you know? Like, we were like, this is definitely not going anywhere. And then it took about two months, but he gave us a call, and he was like, hey, come. Come right here. And we thought, okay, we'll get a ten page story. And he put us on cable right away. And the funny thing is, Ed Brisson, who was writing cable before us, was a local Vancouverite at the time. So we were able to kind of, like, call him and be like, I guess we're taking over cable from you. And he was like, what the hell? Like, you guys have been doing this for, like, a year. Like, and so. But it was, it was cool. Cause it was, like, sort of just, we were thrown into it and learned a lot in that early, like, first year, year and a half, because it was like, you know, that's not many people's story, right? It's like writing one book and getting thrown into the deep end. So in a lot of ways, it was cool because you get to learn so quickly, but on the other side of it, it's like, I really, I.
2018 just feels like a blur in my head. Like, I'm just like, I don't know where that year went.
[00:15:45] Speaker A: I mean, it could have turned you off from comics. Like, writing comics in general, too. Like, being, you know, pushed into the fire so quickly could have. Could have stressed you out and could have pushed you farther away from wanting to write comics, too. So, like, I could see that, like, both sides of that. But, yeah, it's pretty cool. I guess the guy, you know, people over at Marvel really just needed a canadian to continue the cape.
Ed's not going to do it anymore, so we need to get, you know, get Zach in Lonnie on that so they can get that, get that cable story written. No, but more recently, you've done, you've got, and I want to touch really quickly, you got alien rhyme that's coming out, the prequel. But I want to get to that at some point. But so you are, it's a marvel property in a sense. It's obviously not Marvel proper. It's a licensed property. But you're doing a lot of creator own stuff now. And so you obviously started with creator own, with the Greggs. But is it just something that you really just want to tell your stories now? You know, just to list off a few for this, this, this year, you did cemetery kids don't die. Blow away into the unbeing, and then you've got the body trade coming here pretty soon, too. But, like, is it just something that you've got a lot of stories to tell, or is this something you really want to do? Is the creator own side of things? What's, what's, what's the difference on the, on doing creator own versus DC? Marvel?
[00:16:59] Speaker B: I think, like, to be perfectly honest, like, describing, like, in 2018, we were thrown into superhero comics, and then, for one way or another, kind of stayed doing that for about four years. And then after that time, you kind of go, it just, it works at such a crazy pace. Like anyone who works at superhero comics will tell you, it's like a sprint. You're sort of just like, and your creator on books are a marathon. You're really taking your time. You're pacing yourself. And after four years of doing that, I just, I was like, I can't, I can't do it anymore. Like, not that I don't want to do it anymore. It's just that I felt, I think you see a lot of creators do it where they do, like, spurts of big two work, and then they kind of take a step back. And for me, I was just, like, all I was doing was, like, reading marvel back issues and sort of, like, just fully immersed in this world. And I wasn't necessarily thinking about the literature that got me intrigued in telling stories or the films that I was passionate about. That sort of, like, started me on this road. So I wanted to take a step back and just sort of, like, look at, okay, if I only did original stuff, what would it be? And then it sort of, like, snowballed where I set some stuff up. And then, like, I had more people ask and more people ask and more people ask. And then before I knew it. I was like, well, I have a whole year worth of original stuff, so I'm just going to kind of ride this and very specifically, like, not do any big two at that time, so I can just sort of, like, roll them into one another. Part of the plan this year was always that when one finished, another one would start. So there's something on the shelf all year long with my name on it that's original.
[00:18:52] Speaker A: You know, not that you plan this because obviously the publishers of your, of your work, you pitch stories to, or they come to you or whatever, but your four big series this year that you're creating are all on four different publishers. Is this a thought out thing? Like, is this something that you'd like to have happen because of previous experience with having a lot of stuff at one publisher and then having something not go so well? Does it have it so that there's a. I know, I know. James Tiny in the force has mentioned something before about the idea of having also multiple marketing teams technically working on books, because now you have oni, boom, dark horse that gave all working towards publishing your book instead of one house.
[00:19:32] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think the thing, like, so when my previous publisher sort of imploded, I had some other creators sort of take me aside and be like, don't do that again. Like, sort of just like, you know, realize that there's so much strength in perspective that comes from working with multiple different publishers as well. Because, like, there's just certain things that certain publishers do better than, than others. And like you, I don't think you can find any publisher that does everything perfectly, but I do think you can find a way to create relationships with all of them. So they're sort of playing with one another nicely. And for me, I started to realize, like, at the end of 2023, I was like, okay, these publishers have kind of come to me. Well, first of all, because I was one publisher guy for so long when that all kind of blew up, I had multiple people reach out to me and say, come here. Come do your stuff here. Which was really nice. It was like, because I was kind of like, I'm done. This is crazy. I've sort of lost the rights to a bunch of different stuff, and now it's all stuck in bankruptcy court. So I was like, I don't know where to go from here. And then I had a bunch of people kind of come forward and say, no, no, you should come here and do your stuff here. And so I started to, like, look at the calendar. And I was just transparent with them. I said, look, I'm talking to this publisher and I've got this thing coming out in April, so I think we should launch this book and this month, that sort of thing. So, like, they were all aware of the situation and then they were all making sure that they were not cannibalizing each other's launches. And also, for me, it's like then I can also market stuff properly in a way that isn't like, destroying my life.
So it was like, it was eye opening. I think this past year has been really good for my perspective because again, talking about kind of getting thrown into the deep end early aftershock was a publisher that came to us pretty much right after our first book came out and said, you should just do all your stuff here. And there's a benefit for, like, you because when people look at the shelf, they're going to find your stuff all the same. Publisher. And I thought, ah, that makes sense, you know, like, like, and you don't really think about it that much more than that because, like, you're new to it. And these were early on. And like, so, like, we signed a three book deal with them that sort of locked us into doing a bunch of our creator own work there.
And I didn't really think about that at the time because you just go, wow, like, someone wants me to do three books, this is great. And then you sort of like, look at it in the rear view mirror and you realize, like, there was a degree of taking advantage of how green we were, basically. And like, you know, I don't even really have any bad blood about that because, like, I didn't do my due diligence and talk to other people and sort of like, really look into it and I'm happy and I'm proud of all the work that I made there. And it, you know, so prepared me for this moment where I'm like, now I'm not going to be locked down anywhere. I'm just going to keep doing stuff everywhere. And I think that James Tinian thing really stuck in my head of, like, you do want to use them to your best advantage to have them play well with each other.
[00:22:53] Speaker A: It's not like you sat here and was like, oh, this three book deal, I'm going to sign with this company and they're going to go bankrupt. It's not like we're gonna be like, oh, this is gonna suck. Because, you know, outside of the spreading your love throughout a bunch of different comic book publishers, it's a good thing, but yeah, it's like a lot. No one signs on with the company thinking that they're not gonna be there anymore. It's, you know, even if the writings on the wall is still not in your mind, that you're just like, this is this, they wanna publish my book. This is great. And I think there's other publishers out there where there's some books on these publishers, right. They shouldn't be working with these publishers. So it's like, we're sketchy publishers nowadays that people just hopefully that their book gets out there and they're happy that someone's making their book and it's a fine line to walk. But working with someone like dark horse right now and, boom. In owning and some of these other bigger publishers, or at least long term publishers now, you only have to lose one book if one decides to grow. Well, you have multiple books now, these things, some of these publishers. But yes, in the long run, obviously, you don't know. But is there any hope for any of this stuff from aftershock that you're ever going to get some of this back? Or is this just basically, like, in your mind, you're just like, that's the past where we're moving forward with new stuff.
[00:24:02] Speaker B: So, like, I'm pretty diligent in that I, like, I'm on top of it, like, okay. In that I'm paying attention to the bankruptcy courts and everything like that. And so there is, there's some sliver of hope that's kind of coming through now. But I think the thing to keep in mind is that, like, this has been going on for 18 months. Thats a very long time for anything to sort of be in bankruptcy court.
So the interesting wrinkle of all of this is that because creators own half the rights, aftershocks, sort of in a situation where they cannot sell those rights to anyone else without the creators authorization. And obviously the creators dont want that, right. So the only thing the creators want is to get their rights sold back to them. So, like, I've been very clear with them, they'll never publish another book of mine. I'll never, I will not finish things out there. But if they give me the rights back, you know, I'll go right to dark horse and be like, hey, or where, wherever, you know, and, and so, like, I just want my library back. And I think that's what most creators want. But there's like, with everything, right? They're just sort of, like trying to find an angle that works for them. And I think they're the court is running out of patience. Let's just put it that way.
[00:25:25] Speaker A: No, yeah, I can answer that. Because there was, I mean, we've heard with other publishers, we've heard things recently where they're just like, they've got some bad, bad blood, some bad news in the, in the, you know, Internet and people just like they just said, okay, have your rights back. Like we're just going to move on from this. And so that would have been a nice thing to be able to say, just like, okay, but obviously they're financially not doing well. So that, that, no, that's what the mix of that is. But yeah, it sucks. But you know what? It's one of those things that like a lot of people will go, then you should have just kick started it all and you would have had it all your, you know, all that stuff. But no, yes, I've all the publishers that you work with. I mean, I'm a huge fan of dark horse. Huge fan. A huge fan of mad cave. I feel like they're doing a bunch of great things over at Mad Cave. I love all the people over at Dark Horse. They are absolutely wonderful. Obviously things for boom in the horizon now we see with them being sold, it could be different in the future, but we don't know. But res of right now, it's great. And so it's great to see your books at these places. But dark horse is, is absolutely tremendous. And I'm glad that into the unbeing is under the dark horse banner. I feel like it's a huge dark horse title. I feel like that, you know, I just feel the dark horse logo on the front of that book just like fits. Yeah. And I've seen online and I've read some things about you saying that this is the most personal story and work that you've been doing into the unbeing. It launched, we're on, I think this is going to drop on the 14 August. So that would be the third issue coming out on the day that this drops. And then the fourth one comes on September 11. And so. And it's part one. Right. I mean, this is a, this is, you're doing more with this, but we're three issues in. This is a story. Um, I don't know. I hate elevated pitches, but if you want to give us an idea of what into the unbeing is before we get into a discussion about a little bit about the book. Yeah.
[00:27:05] Speaker B: So it's about a team of scientists that are stationed in the australian outback who find a cosmic anomaly. And they enter the anomaly through its mouth, the mouth being in quotation marks, but not really because, spoiler if you haven't read issue one, they go into the mouth of a giant, undead, kaiju like creature thing that exists in the desert.
[00:27:29] Speaker A: It's so. So with that being said, and I kind of have an idea, but I'd like to hear out of your mouth saying this, but why is this the most personal work that you've done?
[00:27:39] Speaker B: So, I mean, there's a number of reasons, but, like, first and foremost, when we were originally conceiving this book, I was in the process of, like, moving across Canada.
And when I started to sort of, like, journal what I wanted this book to be and what I wanted to be about. You know, I strongly sort of, like, believe that climate change is the most pressing issue that faces humanity in the next, you know, like, 1020, 3100 years.
And that was always sort of part of my personality. But I camped my way across the entire country of Canada, and Canada is a giant country. And the first few nights that I did that, I drove through a forest that was on fire to the point where, like, ash was coming through my AC unit in my car. And, like, you know, you can't see the sun. And, like, I'm talking, I was on the highway and there were trees on fire, like, 10ft from the car. I could feel the heat kind of thing. And I was in the mountains, and I had no other route to go. I just had to go through the forest fire. And, you know, and then I saw a flood. Like, halfway through my journey, I saw all kinds of different sort of environmental, like, hazards or catastrophes or whatever, and kind of just in this moment realized how normalized these things are and how much we're getting used to them. And then fast forward to 2022. I get to my new home, and I'm here for about a year.
And then a category five hurricane hit the island. And, like, it was, it was devastating. Like, I, there are so many trees that came down. I remember, like, laying in my house in the hallway with my back on the wood floor, and you can feel the vibrations of the trees falling down as they're hitting the ground and, like, through. And then, you know, the power goes out and the radio stops working and you sort of just, like, go, okay, this is sort of normal now. Like, you know, the west coast is on fire. The east coast gets hammered by hurricanes, and these are just things that we're supposed to, like, get used to, but there's also just nothing really being done. And so I just wanted to really write about coming to grips with that sort of, like, reality, but also talking about how there's so many different perspectives that people have on this and all these different ways for people to enter and into thinking about the environment and realizing that they're sort of inseparable from the environment. They're not sort of this, like, you know, humans aren't just this removed creature that sort of lords over nature. We're an integral part of it.
And I wanted to sort of showcase that there's all kinds of different perspectives that you can have on this. And so that's why they, the series is written through all these different perspectives, because the hope is that when you sort of, like, finish the series, you sort of realize you've kind of been looking through a prism and there's all these different perspectives on this one thing.
[00:31:06] Speaker A: Was there a fine, like, obviously, this book is fiction. You know, obviously comic book is that I. You're talking about. Again, spoilers. The first issue has been out for a little while, so I don't want to spoil too much about it, but you were talking about going into a giant head, and so obviously, there is no giant head in wilderness here and on earth.
What was the decision, or how hard was it to walk the line between trying to tell a true climate change style story that is little hits close to home, but also having a supernatural and fiction part of it? How was that line telling and trying to be like, no, climate change is real people, and then also being like, but this is also a comic book. Like, was that a difficult thing, or was it something that really just came to you?
[00:31:55] Speaker B: It's something that kind of came pretty naturally. Like, I think, like, I've, for a while there, when I was living on the west coast, like, I was pretty into, like, backcountry camping. And so the idea is, like, you go in and everything is on your back, and it's got to be, like, ultra light. And what ends up happening is you go, like, you look at it on a map and you go, okay, I understand where I'm going. And, like, what that's gonna feel like when I get there. But then when you walk up a mountain and you kind of get there and you're in the environment and your phone doesn't work, and you're just there with your gear, you may as well be in the mouth of a giant undead being. Right? Because at the end of the day, like, I kept thinking every time I would go back country camping and, you know, you'd have this period where you'd be like, bouldering, which is like when you walk on all these jagged rocks to try and scale something. And you would think to myself, one, I'm by myself. One wrong step, I twist my ankle, I fall down in there, and that's it. Like, I'm just down there now. And, like, I don't. And, like, I have no way to contact help. I have, like, some rescue gear or whatever. But at the end of the day, like, the amount of people who go missing and die in the canadian wilderness is astronomically high. So I kind of just was thinking about, like, you know, this feeling of getting lost in nature is a pretty common feeling. And so if you sort of, like, extrapolate that and put that into, like, a really fantastical environment, I think that's the easiest way to help people understand that feeling who maybe don't do that sort of thing. Because I have lots of friends who theoretically can understand what it's like to be out in the woods and be completely immersed in nature, but maybe have never done it. And so it is a weird moment of insignificance. You're just sort of like, oh, wow, I don't matter at all. I could just disappear and the world would go on. Right? And so I wanted to sort of make sure that readers were confronting something that made them feel cosmically insignificant.
[00:34:12] Speaker A: And it does. It works extremely well on that. It's also a visually appealing or not appealing, but it's appealing, but, like, depressing comic book because the artwork is absolutely phenomenal. That matches. Pairs up really well with your writing style.
And it definitely shows some sort of depressing outlook and some, some scary outlook onto what the world could look like and will look like if we don't do something about it, in a sense.
But, yeah, it's. It's a. It's in the color scheme as well, giving that, like, depressing. But the, you know, it's hard to explain.
It just fits well, in my opinion. I don't know how else to say it. When I was reading it, I was reading it for the first time. And it's one of those things that there's certain books. So, first of all, I'm a huge fan of your writing. So, like, I. The first thing that comes out when I see, you know, Zach Thompson book, he's like, okay, I gotta pay attention to this book. And then it's on top of that because there are some people who write all over the board, and I'm like, oh, I like your writing. But this is not my favorite comic book, so I have to look at it then. The dark horse thing. Okay. I love dark horse.
Honestly, to tell you, the part one drew me in the idea that, like, okay, this could be. There's more to this because it's not just, you know, it's nice to know. I like miniseries a lot. I'm a big mini series fan because of the fact that I like a beginning and an end. I like a concise story. I like the idea that I know too many times I've actually seen recently, which was like, we've got promoted to an ongoing. And then, like, seven issues in, they're like, okay, it's their final issue. I'm like, wait a second. I thought you were going to an ongoing. And to have this be the point where, like, I'm guessing that at the end of part one, it probably can be, we're not going to do any more, except it would look kind of weird if you just did part one. It'd be like, history of the world, part one. You'd be like, I just got you guys. No, but the. The idea that having it be part one drew me in the COVID Drew me in cover a of the first issue. And then reading the story, it was just phenomenal. And again, I love these stories that are based in truth with a twist that makes it so it's not, if that makes any sense. And I think that's what into the unbeing is that has that everything in it could be real except for that there's a supernatural part of it. And that, and that, to me, it just makes it a little less depressing when you go to read it. We are reading comic books to kind of escape the world we live in. And you put me into the world we live in with this comic book. But, yeah, there's that. And then, honestly, to me, with the first issue was that cliffhanger of an ending to a point where I'm like, oh, shit. Now I really need to get issue two and find out what's going on with this series. But it's a complete package, in my opinion, with this book. And if anybody hasn't read it yet, I think it's well worth taking a gander at. One of the notes I actually wrote down when I was reading the book originally for the first time. And I don't remember the exact lines in the comic book. I'll have to go back and read it. But I put down that people still care about what people think about us, even in the end. Of times. Like, it's kind of funny how some of your characters are so different in this book, where there's, like, moments where they're just, like, they care what people think about, even though the world is shit on the outside of the vehicle they're in, but they're still worried about what someone else thinks about them is kind of like, how stupid are humans we are?
[00:37:21] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, and it doesn't matter what you're doing or what situation you're in, right. You're going to be like, what are these other people think of me?
I think, like, yeah, because it's like, it doesn't matter, right? Like, we. We kind of reduce ourselves down to those, like, petty sort of human emotions so often. And, like, you know, like, to go back to, like, the part one of it all. Like, when Hayden and I kind of first came to dark horse because, like, Hayden and I have been basically building this together from the very beginning.
I pitched this to Hayden and they were very interested from the get go, and I was like, look, here are the things that sort of scare me about what's going on currently. How do you feel about them? And they were very. They felt very similarly. They were very worried about the climate and everything. So we started to talk about what we could build. That sort of was, like, unique and interesting visually. And they were like, you know what? I want to paint this book. I want to, like, go in and I want to paint my own work. I've never done that before. And I want this to be like the book where I color myself. I was like, hell, yeah, sounds great. So we went to dark horse. We had five pages completely made that were, you know, like, lettered by Jim, painted by Hayden, and on the fifth page there, they were already inside in the original pitch.
And we said to them, like, look, we see this as, like, at least eight oversized issues. Like, about 250 pages was sort of what we pitched them. And because everyone else we had talked to said, make it a four issue mini. And we were like, that's just not. Like, we just can't do that with a concept like this. So either you take it as a 250 page behemoth or you don't take it at all. And so when we were sort of pitching it to dark horse, we were about, like, halfway through issue one, and I was already writing, like, issue four. And I said, like, I think there's an area here in issue four where we could break it and this could be part one, and then we could do a part two and dark horse to their credit, because of, like, hellboy and everything, dark horse readers are so used to interconnected minis. And they were like, okay. But, like, if you did that, should they have different titles? And I was like, no, fuck it. Let's just do, like, let's do dune style, just part one. Because then it immediately tells you there's a part two coming. Because I wanted, I didn't want there to be, like, a subtitle that was too vague to evoke, like, oh, is this just sort of a mini? Because I think, you know, you just don't want to get readers to a place where they read four issues and then they don't know that, like, the next mini came out. And then, of course, now that we've, we've completely finished part two, we're already talking about what we could do for part three because it's just like we, you know, and it has a very definitive ending. But, you know, we walked away from, it went, well, we could come back here and we could do a little bit more with what we've sort of left on the table here. And the idea for this whole series really has been, like, an exercise in generative world building where, like, every morning while we were working on the book, because we're completely done now, Hayden would send, like, a rough layout and say, what do you think of this? This is page one, issue one. I'd be like, okay, cool. Like, panel one. Let's do this, that or the other thing. And they would be like, okay. And then they would, at the end of the day, send me inks.
And we would do that every day for, like, basically three years.
Um, and that was cool because I would wake up every morning and Hayden and I would have a conversation and we would figure out a page. And then at the end of the day, I would get that page. And I've never made a book like that. It's usually like, you get a batch of 20 pages at a time, you approve them, and then three weeks time, you think about the book again. So every single day, we were talking about this. So it really just evolved, and we let it sort of go in these, like, strange and uncanny directions. And it was very, like, jazz, like, in that way where it was just sort of like, we were just rolling with it. And Hayden has been an unbelievable collaborator in that. Like, they're, you know, one of the best artists working in comics today.
So incredibly skilled. And every time I would give them something that was insane, they would send me something back ten times crazier because they were just, like, challenge accepted, you know, like, and so it was really fun because that was like, that's comics at their best, where you're just sort of, like, bouncing off of each other and trying to outdo each other to the point where, like, you know, like, the thing that's interesting is, like, issue one was written in 2021.
Issue four was written in 2024 and drawn in 2024. So both of those things, like, you know, by the time you get to the end of the part two, like, basically four years of creative time have elapsed. So, like, I've become a better writer, I hope, and I, and Hayden's absolutely become a better artist. So, like, the book just gets more visually interesting and creatively daring, I think.
[00:42:57] Speaker A: As it goes on, it's a four year process.
Has it been exciting relieving indifferent on now having it be on shelves and in people's hands and actually having people outside of friends in the industry reading it?
[00:43:12] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it was a, I was like, it's just very surreal, to be honest with you, because we've been working on it for so long that, like, when you see people posting photos and stuff of it, you're like, oh, man, wow. Like, that's existed in my head for so long that now it's finally, like, out there and people are engaging with it in this really, like, wonderful way because I honestly, like, that's what it's all about. Right? Yeah, that, because at some point in time when you're working on projects for that long, you go, well, this is probably just never going to come out. I never see a day, you know, like, you're just, like, waiting for the publisher to be like, yeah, we're canceling it. Yes. So, like, it was really lovely because it was just, like, such a, such a labor of love for Hayden and I. And, like, it was this type of thing that we just had to work on between other gigs. And, like, you know, Hayden's exploded in the time that since we started on the book. So they were like, yeah, I'm going to go work on absolute Wonder Woman now. And I was like, hell, yeah, like, kill it, you know, like, but it's just sort of this thing where I'm so happy that we were able to come together when we did and tell this story because it just sort of feels like all these things kind of came together perfectly to make this book.
[00:44:27] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's, it's beautiful and it shows, it's one of those things that I don't think that the peripheral this is not me. Putting down peripheral readers, like, people who just read occasionally and don't pick up a bunch of things in their pod list. But, like, it shows in someone when you're reading a book, and I'm reading it as a, as a person trying to critique the book, uh, that you guys look like you cared about working with each other, you know, like, there's definitely times, and especially in big two books, is a lot of times you're part paired up or partnered with someone that you don't get a choice on who that person is. A lot of times they're just like, okay, Zach, you're writing it, and so, and so is doing the art. Um, but it showed, like, throughout the first two issues that you guys cared about working together and that the project was a team effort, and it showed that hearing you say that makes sense. And that's why I love when that show is like that. There's definitely, and Jim Campbell's no slouch here in your lettering to be.
So you have that whole team there. And again, like I mentioned about the whole editing and publishing over at Dark Horse, this book just feels complete. Even though actually said, I've only read two issues, it feels like it's complete and it's at a place that it needs to be. And I think that's great about this. 1st, 1st part, one, I should say, of into the unbeing. It just seems like it makes sense. I don't know how else to explain it.
[00:45:43] Speaker B: Well, thanks, man. I appreciate it.
[00:45:45] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Jim Campbell, for sure. Everybody know who Jim Campbell is? Jim Campbell is a letterer designer who's extraordinaire. That's just, you know, and you can tell, again, lettering. I've said it a million times on this podcast, but lettering is one of those unsung heroes in the comic book industry that it can be really bad and it can be really good. And I think that really good, it stands out in a way that you're like, oh, this lettering is really good, but just good, good, good lettering means that it just sits there on the page like it belongs there. And I think that's what, you know, Jim did a wonderful job on this. On this.
[00:46:20] Speaker B: I think he, he was going to, like, murder me when I gave him the plans because I was like, okay, so every single issue is going to have a pat, a prose passage that we want lettered differently and from a different style. And then every single issue also changes perspective. So we need to do some sort of visual cue so it's clear that the narrator has changed every issue. And he was just like, okay, Zach, great. And he's been along for the, you know, the multiple year ride as well. He did that pitch with us right in 2020. So, like, you know, he's been an integral part of the team and honestly has elevated everything that he's touched.
[00:47:03] Speaker A: And you mentioned the whole, like, five people to make a comics. You shrunk that down with Hayden doing both illustrations and the coloring and then having Jim and you. So now there's a smaller team on that. Not, you know, not mentioning your editor and so on and so forth, that dark horse. But, yeah, a team is very small when you have someone who does all of the artwork, you know, just get hate. If you didn't have Jim, you have Hayden do the lettering, too, and you'd be all set.
[00:47:23] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.
[00:47:25] Speaker A: But I have heard from people, like, so my buddy Joseph Schmalk, he was like, yeah, he tried to let her some of his books, and he's like, screw this. I'll. I'll do the artwork. I'll write a color. I'll do all that stuff. But someone else can let her. I don't have the time or the ability to let her right now, honestly.
[00:47:38] Speaker B: It's the thing. It's like, it looks easy right when it's done well, it looks easy, but if you try and do it, and I, and I recommend that people try because I tried to letter my own stuff early on, it's going to look like shit. And then you're going to realize that you should take a step back and you should pay a professional to do it or put in the time to learn how to do it professionally. But, like, the reality is that, you know, it should look effortless because when it is done well, it just guides your eye around the page and you don't even have to think about it. And that's why I think people think it's easy to do, but it's absolutely not.
[00:48:18] Speaker A: I also believe that there's also a position for this as a comic book position. It's a person you hire is a letterer. So there's a reason behind that. It's nothing just because they want to have another title in a book. It's because the people who do it are professionals at doing it, and that's what they're good at. So, you know, you're not sitting here illustrating your own books as you're like, I'll just write. I'll let someone else draw the books. You don't want to see my drawing or whatever, but, like, someone else can draw them in the same sense. And some people don't like to color their own stuff. Like, I'd rather just do the illustrations, let someone else color it, you know, and so on and so forth. So there's a position there because it's, it's worth it. And there's names you see out there. If anybody sees, like, Jim Campbell's one of them. DC did your blow away, right? Is that DC Hopkins and DC's and one of my favorite letterers of all time, too. So you got, you got some stellar people there as well.
Into the unbeing is an absolute phenomenal book. I think people need to read it. For sure. You can get the first issue. Hopefully it's sold out. But if you can get it at your local comic book shop, pick that up. It's a beautiful, beautiful cover. Creepy cover, but beautiful cover. And then issue two just hit initially. Three is hitting when this episode drops. Issue four will be on September. And then I'm guessing obviously dark warriors have done some pretty good trades, so you'll have a trade of it as well in part one. Are you going to do a trade of part one, you think, and then a trade of part two to it, or is there going to be.
[00:49:30] Speaker B: Trade of part one will be out?
I don't know when part two is going to hit, but it's going to be early 2025, but the trade will be out before that. So the idea is that if you miss part one, you can read it in trade and then you can be ready for part two when that drops.
[00:49:47] Speaker A: That's awesome. See, and I'm a big floppy kind of guy, so people should pick up floppies. But you know, it's hard sometimes. The book is, is popular and purchased a lot. It's hard to find the issues one sometimes. So it's one of those things. According to Bookshop.org, comma, it looks like early January or January is when the trade should hit. So right around that beginning of the year thing, what I did realize with your books this year in 2024, a big project Reese fan, by the way, too. I loved that last year.
It's funny because I also, I think the used previous world or boom used my poll quote for Hunt for the skidwalker in previews as well as I was whole quoted from the back of Project Reese. So I feel like when I see these things and like Kyle Starks, I'm a big Kyle Starks fan too. In both two of his books last year, they used my poll quote. And I'm just thinking to myself, I'm like, people are going to start knowing who my favorite writers are.
No, but yeah. So what I realized this year is that your four books that you put out, the big books that you put out from the different publishers, they're all drastically different art styles. And I feel like in books in general, but I'm just saying, like, when you look at visual of a book with low weight, it's a little bit cleaner. And you've got this one, obviously. And then obviously coming out with the trade, the body trade with, with jock, I mean, that's like, they're all different. Is this on purpose or is this just something that you. It happened to be?
[00:51:08] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely on purpose. I definitely wanted to give people. Well, first of all, like, I just like writing for different sort of art styles because it makes you write differently. Like, I think, like, at the end of the day, like, I don't write the same way for job because they do for nikola on blow away. And the idea is, like, to kind of challenge yourself, step inside of your comfort zone. But also, like, I think, like, you don't want everything to kind of have this visual sameness either.
Because, like, one of the things that I think is really important is, like, beyond working with the artist who's perfect for your story. I also think, like, art sets a tone right away. So, like, when you open a book and you look at the art, it's just going to give you a different feel depending. Right. So, like, when I blow away, I wanted to feel clean and have, like, a more, quote unquote, like, modern style for it because I think it's just like a very modern story and, yeah, whereas, like, jock has, like, really heavy blacks and sort of, like, very nimble line work, almost like Mignola.
And I thought this is a darker, grittier revenge story.
He'd be perfect for that. And so it's finding the right sort of tone, I think, for the thing that you're trying to create.
[00:52:31] Speaker A: It makes sense. I mean, you've also worked for some stellar, some stellar artists. I mean, having a body trade come out with, with jock is absolutely phenomenal. Not to mention we just mentioned with Hayden, with, with, into, into the un being some of these artists you're working with are phenomenal in their own right as well. But, yeah, I think that blow away one, too has that, like, it's cold. So, like, has that smoothness to it to sense softness to it because of the fact that it's obviously a snowy climate and then, yeah, the body traits coming out in September from Mad Cave, which is their 10th anniversary, which is kind of cool. Have a book come out during their 10th anniversary over there. But, yeah, it's also a story that is jock's artwork in general, whether you're writing the story or not writing the story, but the actual plot of the story. I feel like Jock's work gives this grittiness to it that. That this. This story deserves. And I think that, uh, that's why I feel like when I was reading it, uh, last night, that it was like, it just made sense to have Jock as the. You know, some people can take Jock or leave him. Like, it's like one of those things that some people aren't his biggest. Their biggest fans. Like, it's definitely an issue for some people. Um, but otherwise, I mean, it's a phenomenal, uh, first issue, debut issue here called the body trade. What is the body trade for? Quickly, so we can get into that a little, just tiny bit before we go. Get off here.
[00:53:45] Speaker B: So it follows a divorced ex con who finds out that his estranged son has passed away and that his remains have been sold into the body trade, which is an aftermarket for human corpses that actually exists in America and many people don't actually know about. So I found out about the aftermarket for human corpses and decided to write a crime book about it, following kind of like a hardened, no nonsense, violent dude with a broken arm as he sort of navigates this world. Because I wanted to sort of, like, write an angrier, sort of more propulsive rhyme story that's not driven by interior narration at all, but it's just driven by action.
[00:54:36] Speaker A: It's. The first issue is packed with some anger, some violence, some shouting.
It's kind of funny, that. Not funny, but it makes sense because he is a hard, hardened person, this father, and so on. And so you can understand why this person's hardened. They have gone through some shit in life, probably prior to the son passing away, during this whole passing away of the son and then having to learn that his son was sold into the body trade. Uh, but also he has a heart. Like, you can tell that he has a heart as well. And so, like, he's not just this badass, no nonsense person, but the person is doing it for the right reasons. Uh, you know, maybe redemption, maybe, uh, because he screwed up in earlier in life, that he wants to make sure things are right and so on. So you can feel that in it. But I having that. I love that juxtaposition of having this guy that looks like he just kicked your ass, but also being like, if he was in the right mindset at the time, probably could cuddle up with his son the sudden hadn't passed away.
[00:55:33] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, there's a reason he cries in the first scene.
[00:55:36] Speaker A: Right?
[00:55:36] Speaker B: Like, I want to sort of, like, immediately undercut that idea of, like, manhood, because I think, like, that's something that doesn't often get written about in comics. A lot is, like, we have, like, a lot of, like, you know, the Conan archetype or whatever, but I think there's an interesting, uh, degree of, like, fragile masculinity that we don't often write comics about. And I think there's, like, a, you can look the part and you can embody the part, but at the end of the day, it's like, are you able to be vulnerable and sort of do something? The whole book is asking the question of, like, can you just sort of, can a bad person redeem themselves for being a shitty person in the past? And as the book goes on, you start to learn more about Kim as the main character, sort of how he was sort of responsible for some of this. Right. And so, like, why he's so invested in making this right? And also, is he capable of making it right? Is he just making a bigger mess, you know, like, yeah. And. And that's oftentimes, like, when you're driven by revenge.
Revenge is not clean.
[00:56:42] Speaker A: Right.
[00:56:43] Speaker B: Sort of like, it oftentimes leaves you with a bigger wound than the one that you're trying to fill.
[00:56:50] Speaker A: Yeah. And so, like, you mentioned online about having it out there and stuff like that, I was like, oh, yeah, I usually get mad cave stuff a little early, but this is actually a little earlier than I would get potentially mad cave stuff. And I was like, oh, I'm super excited to read this because obviously, like I said, I'm a huge fan of yours. And so this, and then I saw jock on there. I'm like, I got to read this book and see how that's what this is all about. I'm super pumped. I'm a father, so it obviously hits a little bit hard for me, too, just seeing that. Like, I can't imagine the loss of my son. No matter what was going on in my. In my mind or my. What was going on in my life, it would just suck. And this weekend was kind of. It was fitting to it because of the COVID that we had. Covid. And we were sick for a while. I had to be home 24 hours a day. Because I get this. I hate to say it, I'm a father, but I could never be a stay at home dad. I think this like going to my work, talking to some adults, being away from my kid for a little bit, letting someone else take care of him, but then coming home one night and being very attentive to my son and being there and over the weekends and doing things with him and so on and so forth. I absolutely love him. I read him books before he goes to bed and all that stuff on Sunday or Saturday afternoon. He was not listening. And I raised my voice a little louder than I ever wanted to, and it hurt me so bad as a dad. I was just like, I should not have done that. I apologized to him. I was teary eyed a little bit, and I hugged him. And then I read this book, and I'm like, fuck you, Zach.
No, but, like, it was true and it made sense, and it's. I never have ever had stuff in my life when I was growing up, when I was living in Massachusetts, for a number of years, friend of mine couldn't watch certain movies because he's a father, and he's like, I can't do it. I've always been able to separate fake versus real. And the idea that, like, the movie we were talking about, the time was prisoners with Hugh Jackman.
[00:58:25] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:58:26] Speaker A: And he's like, I just, the kid gets abducted. I just can't. I just can't even think about it. So on stuff, I'm like, but I know it's fake. I know it's not real. And so I was able to separate myself, but it still strikes a chord differently. You know, I don't own a pet. But you have a pet, right? I guess. You have a dog.
[00:58:41] Speaker B: Yeah, I have a dog and two cats. Yeah.
[00:58:43] Speaker A: Okay. And so, like, having. Being something that, like, something happens bad to a dog or a cat, I can imagine someone being a pet owner, being like, yeah, this is not fun for me to read. And the same thing. So, like, having someone lose a kid and then have the ability to try to be like, I screwed up and I want to redeem myself. I kind of hit home, hit home on Sunday night with this, reading this book. So I'm excited to read the rest of it. And hopefully people won't be turned off by the fact that you're a parent. You shouldn't be reading this, but you should be reading.
I don't want to deter anybody from reading it.
[00:59:13] Speaker B: It really is about redemption, right? It is about trying to be like, the kind of thing that I pitched man cave to was like, it's never too late to be a good person. You know what I mean? Even if you are a bad person, a bad person with the right goal can become a good person. And, like, there's something interesting there. I just love stories like that. I love, like, really morally gray protagonists who sort of, like, you know, obviously have a strong emotional reason for why they're doing what they're doing, but they're also, like, willing to break people's arms or faces in order to, like, get what they want. You know, there's something interesting there because, I mean, everyone's been through that, right? Where you're sort of faced with, like, this injustice or this thing that is, like, just doesn't make sense and you're on the losing end of it and you just sort of wanna, you want to, like, find who's responsible and make them pay, right? But it's like, most of us don't do that. Most of us just go, ah, well, fuck, I guess I'll just go back to my life, you know?
[01:00:16] Speaker A: Yeah.
It's also, it's a tough thing to deal with when no one else around you believes in you from the beginning too. Like, you know, he's looking for this. He goes to the funeral at the very beginning. And that's where he finds out, obviously, it's the very beginning of the book, so not spoiling anything. It's literally like the first two pages.
But, yeah, he finds out that his son is no longer, it's not actually his son in the casket or something like that. And he wants, it seems like he wants to make a difference, but everybody around him is like, screw you. You haven't been here. Yada, yada, yada, yada, yada. What have you done lately? And it's like, okay, well, you know, he doesn't mean he's, you know, forgiven and move on from everything, but give the eye an opportunity to really try to make it, make a difference here. But, yeah, and it's like, you can see post, I don't believe, obviously, in the idea of a body trade and having a corpses, illegal, you know, illegitimate corpses being sold on a black market and stuff like that. But, like, I, you also see where they came from and why they may have done what they've done, the rest of his family to do certain things. So, like, it puts people in also in the other side of that vulnerable, vulnerable position to. To do something they should do, uh, to get themselves up financially or so on. And so forth.
[01:01:19] Speaker B: So, yeah, because, I mean, it is, it is real, and, like, there is a, there is a predatory nature to some of it, but there's also, like, the flip side of it is, like, you know, um, if you get your leg amputated after you die, and that gets sold to a medical conference, and they put, like, a knee plate on it to show doctors how to do that properly, that's holistically good. But as you learn, as you read the series, there's no federal law that regulates the aftermarket for human corpses. So I, if I was american, could move to the states and get a refrigerated truck, start collecting corpses and start selling them. And I don't need a license to do that. So, like, you know, like, if that's not american capitalism, I don't know what is. You know?
[01:02:10] Speaker A: Oh, God. Yeah, that's not great. I remember, actually, I think about corpses. I remember when I was living in Massachusetts, it was about ten, maybe 15 years ago, they did a special body exhibit at the, like, museum of Science where they took, like, these. These, um, people donated their, their corpses through their. After their died to science, and they, like, put some sort of plastic thing in it. Like, it was actually human beings, and they, like, took hearts out and, like, it was crazy. It was insane. That's like, that's cool. That's, that's like teaching people about things. This is not trying to sell a toe to someone because they need it and they can't afford to get it themselves or so on or make some extra money on the side. Um, but, yeah, I don't, you know. No, that's not fun. But, uh, which is obviously a completely different. It's a important book, but a different book from. Into the unbeing. And the same thing with blow away in cemetery, because don't die. Those are all four books that came out this year. But quickly, I want to talk, because we're coming towards the end here. Um, you, first of all, I want to say the one thing I do love about Zach is the fact that he is. You can tell that you love comics. Um, and you're. You're excited, and you don't take for granted that you're writing comics and you get to publish comics, that people get to buy your comics. I feel like when you see you on social media and you see things, you're not just being like, buy my comic. This is another comic out. You're like, this comic means a lot to me, or, I've worked hard for this comic, or I'm so excited to do this. And one of those is alien. Uh, it seems like you're a fan of alien, and then you're excited to do this, and you wrote this. Uh, is it a prequel to the alien movie that's coming up? Is that what's going on?
[01:03:43] Speaker B: Yeah. So I got a call from Marvel at the beginning of this year, basically, and they were like, hey, I'm sure you know, the new alien movies coming out. Would you like to work with the director in creating a prequel to it? So over the last year, I've been working with Fede Alvarez to basically come up with a prequel to the new film. So I can. I, you know, I know what happens in this new movie, and I know how my story ties into it, and I'm so excited for people to see it because it's just, like, for me, I'm a huge fan of the franchise, and I think this is, like, a huge return to form and is everything that we've wanted as fans for a really long time. And I can't really say anything about the plot of what I've written because it, like, it's so spoilery that it's coming out in October when the movie comes out. Like, on August 16.
[01:04:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:04:40] Speaker B: And there's a reason for it. When you see the movie, then I'll be able to start talking about what the comic is about. But it's basically, Marvel said it's shining light on the film's antagonists. That's all we can really say.
But it is an integral part of alien lore that they asked me to sort of fill in the blanks on, and I was, like, beside myself. And the cool thing is, with a lot of these things, you gotta wonder, oh, hey, how involved was this director or whatever, was this just sort of like a thing where they just sort of sent you an idea?
Feday spoke to me multiple times. We had multiple calls.
One time got on a Zoom call with me for 3 hours and just walked me through the movie, walked me through the script, showed me, like, large portions of the film while I'm talking to him on it, on Zoom, and then also gave me notes on every step of the process. So, like, I was sending him my outline, he was sending me notes back. I sent him my script, he sent me notes back, that sort of thing. Because there's also just some key elements that we had to make sure gelled properly, because, like, I. Yeah, it's like a piece of alien canon. So it really needed to make. We needed to make sure that it made sense, but also just, like, was very generous in allowing me to be creatively involved in this process. So, yeah, I mean, I've just been beside myself, and I've had to keep this secret for a really long time. So it's been really nice. That's out in the world because I am, like, dying, you know? Like, I went into the coffee shop, like, three weeks ago, and I had an alien shirt on, and the guy was like, do you think that new movie's gonna be good? And I was like, yeah, I, yeah, it looks cool. And in the back of my head I'm like, you already know, but you can't say anything.
[01:06:32] Speaker A: Yes.
[01:06:32] Speaker B: So you just have to, like, get out of here as fast as possible so you don't blow the secret. So I was just like, bye. Like, and then, like, a couple weeks later, I see him again, and he was like, you bastard, like, you knew? And I was like, yeah, but I.
[01:06:45] Speaker A: Couldn'T say anything yet.
When you left. He's like, obviously. Why is that guy, guy's wearing an alien shirt? Because he thinks it's cool. He doesn't care about Aliena.
[01:06:54] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
[01:06:56] Speaker A: That's, that's amazing. But I guess, and that's one of those things that I, so, like, I talked to David Boer when, when David did the ghost back in town, Ghostbusters back in town series, mini series now, which was a prequel to the latest Ghostbusters movie. And it's someone who has a passion for Ghostbusters. This is like one of those things that I've had a discussion with, with Heather Antos about Star Trek and Star wars, and I've had it with other people who write for these, like, iconic, you know, of licensed properties. And it's like people are, first of all, people are going to hate your comic because they, you, they're not, you're not telling the alien story that they have in their head.
[01:07:31] Speaker B: Yes.
[01:07:31] Speaker A: And so very well aware. There's that. But, but the truth of the matter is that they don't hire people to do these comics who don't care about it. Like, you're not, they're not going to call Zach up and be like, oh, so I really heard you hate the alien franchise, so we really want you to do alien Romulus prequel. Is that cool with you? Like, you have a passion for it. You're going to do what's best for what you think in your mind, as well as working with the director of the actual feature film and try to do the best you guys possibly can. And it's not, this is not a, you know, random company doing this. This is a 20th Century Fox imprint of Marvel's comics. This is a legit comic book. And so it's just pretty cool. And I said what I prefaced that with, which was the whole idea that you care. And I think that shows, and it's proof in the proof of the pudding. And that's one reason to support some of these people. Some of these people just turn out comics because they, that's how they make their money. I do think that everything you have talking to you for the past hour, you have a mindset of, I'm doing this because I want to do things good for the world. I also want to do good things for the comic book industry. I think it's a smart decisions to make and so on and so forth. And Romulus, you haven't written a Marvel comic book in a couple years, but.
[01:08:38] Speaker B: Like, this is awesome, honestly, like, I, like, I had been saying no to things and sort of just been like, I'm doing my own thing. And then they were like, well, what about alien Romulus? And I was like, I'm back. Like, sorry. Yeah, easy, easy. Like, I, yeah. Because it was just like, I actually had told them to, like, a couple years ago. I was like, I want to just take some time, work on my own stuff.
[01:09:00] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:09:01] Speaker B: But if alien ever comes up with an opportunity, let me know. And I sort of just left that. And I think I sent that email in, like, 2022. And then they were like, yeah, so there's an alien thing. Because it, like, to me, I never wanted to, like, I didn't really want to write, like, a ten page story or, like an eight page short or whatever. I really wanted to contribute something that I felt was, like, meaningful. So it was really incredible to kind of do this, because it was like, yeah, I mean, I, like, I'm dying to tell people what it's actually about because I, like, just sort of over the moon with it. Like, I couldn't be more thrilled.
[01:09:39] Speaker A: That's amazing. And it's great because, again, having someone with a passion for alien and writing comics helps Marvel and helps 20th century studios because of the fact that you are promoting the book from a genuine place. Not just, I have a Marvel book, and I want to guess all to buy it. This is like a, you're going to sell this book to people. Like, it's your own creator owned property.
[01:10:00] Speaker B: And it feels like that.
[01:10:01] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. That's awesome. And having the ability to work so closely with the director is phenomenal. I do know people who have written things that, that work with something else and they're just like, no one is crickets. There's no. No one to be told of what to do. And you submit it and they're like, yeah, but now you can't do this. You can't do this. You can't do this. Yeah, I think we've all worked so hard on it. Yeah, yeah, but that's awesome. Like I said, you look like you're having fun, and I think that's awesome. But it's obviously a lot of work. It's just not, you know, an easy industry to be in, especially right now. You always have to be working. And I think that you are a busy person. You could tell with the number of titles you have out there. I think you got a good head on your shoulders and doing the right things here. And I think that that alone makes me want to buy comics from you. But anybody listening to this podcast is going to know that you're a phenomenal writer and you've partnered up with great teams, both in artists, letters, colorists, all that stuff, and publishers. And so I'm so glad you were able to take time out of your day from being a busy person to come on here and chat comics with us. I wanted to remind, before we sign off here, I want to remind people that into the unbeing is available at bookstore or bookstore shops everywhere.
Issue three comes out the day that this drops, hopefully on August 14. Issue four is September 11. And so those are available at your store. And then if you are a trade waiter, make sure you go to your actually buy it at local bookstores, which is really cool. So if you don't have a comic book shop in your town, the trade will come out at the beginning of the year for that. But also the body trade, it hits focal 19th. Is that right?
[01:11:31] Speaker B: 19Th, yeah. So you'll still have time to order it if you're listening to this. Yeah.
[01:11:35] Speaker A: So grab the body trade over. It's mad Cave Studios on that one. You can grab issue one that comes out in September. But foc is the 19th. If you don't know what that means, means it's your final order cut off for book store so that your comic book store owner know that you want this on the shelf. And hopefully they'll put it on the shelf with name like yours, a name like jock on it. I think every publisher, every comic book store should put it on the shelf.
[01:11:55] Speaker B: But that's hopefully, yeah.
[01:11:57] Speaker A: And then, like I said, alien rhymer list coming out in October. That's gonna be super exciting for people. Oh, issue five of blowaway also is dropping, I think, this end of August. Yeah, end of August.
[01:12:11] Speaker B: The 23rd.
[01:12:12] Speaker A: Okay.
[01:12:12] Speaker B: I have to think about it for.
[01:12:13] Speaker A: A second, but, yeah, so it's. It's coming up here pretty soon too. And then obviously that will be a trade as well. And then cemetery kids don't die of a trade yet. Or is that just.
[01:12:23] Speaker B: It'll be out in December.
[01:12:24] Speaker A: Okay, December. So there you go. So. But there's all kinds of other stuff out there. I mean, I got Project Reese over here. We got a hunt for the skinwalker. Actually comes out soon too, doesn't it?
[01:12:33] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's out in October.
[01:12:36] Speaker A: Yeah. Because I think it was been. It was like three different dates that are supposed to come out and.
[01:12:41] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, I think because of the Kickstarter stuff, it kind of got kicked down the road a little bit.
[01:12:45] Speaker A: Okay. But. Which is funny, but, yeah, so support Zach and read all the books. I really appreciate you taking the time to come out and talk.
[01:12:53] Speaker B: Thank you so much for having me, man.
[01:12:55] Speaker A: We'll talk to you soon. Yeah.
