[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to the Capes and Tights podcast right here on Capesandtights.com, i'm your host, Justin Soderbergh. This episode is once again brought to you by our friends over at Galactic Comics and
[email protected] this episode features comic book writer and award winning writer Matthew Rosenberg to the show to talk about his comics. What's the furthest place from here? Four kids walk into a bank. We can never go home. Many DC and Marvel titles in his upcoming book. We're taking everyone down with us, which hits stories March 26 from Image Comics. Before you listen to this episode, follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Blue sky, threads and all those places. Subscribe, rate, review all that stuff over on Apple, Spotify and anywhere you find your podcasts. You can also find us on YouTube and with much more information, reviews, countdowns and so much more
[email protected] but this is award winning comic writer Matthew Rosenberg talking. We're taking everyone down with us out March 26th from Image Comics. Enjoy everyone.
Welcome to the podcast. Matthew, how are you today?
[00:01:07] Speaker B: I'm doing good. I'm doing good.
[00:01:08] Speaker A: That's good. That's really good. Yeah, you know, it's the winter time and I have kids, so they're always sick. They're never sick at the same time. Like it's always like one, one time and then another time, then another time, but. And then you end up getting sick when they're healthy. But hey, it's, it comes with the territory.
[00:01:23] Speaker B: That's, that's, that's how the germs get you, I guess.
[00:01:27] Speaker A: I'm like, it would also suck if they're all sick at the same time because at that point you're like, now you're trying to deal with everything, but in the same sense, like it feels like a never ending illness in the house and then like your wife gets it or whatever. So it's not fun. But we're here today to talk comics and things like that. So your first time guest on the podcast here. So if those people who randomly, weirdly don't know who you are, I mean, what's your, just jump in there with a little bit of like, what's your journey into comics in general?
[00:01:53] Speaker B: I don't, I don't want to make people feel bad if they don't know who I am. I don't expect anyone to know who I am ever.
[00:01:58] Speaker A: Well, it's, it's, it's, it's It's. It's a. Yeah, you're right. You're right. I can understand that.
[00:02:03] Speaker B: I could just do it. I'll do it. And if you. If you know, if you know who I am, this is a good time to get up and get a drink and come back in 20 minutes.
Yeah. My name is Matthew Rosenberg. I am a comic book writer from New York. I've written a lot of comic books such as Uncanny X Men and the Punisher and the Joker and just a lot of stuff. And I make indie comics. Like, four kids walk into a bank and we can never go home. And the ongoing book. What's the furthest place from here?
And now I'm currently writing what's the first place from here? D.C. versus vampires and my upcoming Image series. We're taking everyone down with us.
[00:02:53] Speaker A: It's, you know, you are setting. I mean, I'm sure there should be a new Eisner Award category for longest comic book titles, because, I mean, you just win it year in, year out now at this point, right?
[00:03:04] Speaker B: I mean, yeah, you know, the problem is that, like, for American comics, people weren't really doing long titles very much. And I started doing it, and then James Tynan came in with Slowly Killing the Children. And that's like a better title than anything I have. So he's a. He's an asshole. And then Al Ewing came in with, we're taking everyone down with us. Or came in with, We Only Found them when we're dead. And, like, that's a better title than we have. So I'm trying to get back, like, we're taking everyone down with us as an attempt to, like, get back to our level.
But yeah, those guys are the worst. And they're kind of crowding me out of my own space and making me look bad. But it's fine, you know, I'll get. You know, I'll poison them later.
[00:03:48] Speaker A: Yes. I think that people out there must think you get paid for a letter on a comic book title. You can charge more for a comic book or whatever because the title length. No, my LCS owner texted me the other day and was like, hey, man, I'm really going to stop ordering these titles. That is such long titles. Because he retypes them for his, like, polis. And he's like, you just copy and paste, man. It would work just the same. It doesn't matter how long the title is. At that point he's like, ah, I gotta retype these things every time.
[00:04:13] Speaker B: Oh, I get it. It's annoying. The I definitely said the name of my book wrong in an email to someone the other day. I was just like, got it wrong. And, and they were like, you got the name of your own book wrong? And I was like, yeah, first of all, I haven't been talking about it very long. But second of all, like, that's sort of the point is that like it's big enough that if you get a word or two wrong, everyone still sort of knows.
It's, it's nice, it's, it makes things efficient. Because like if your book is called Punch and you, and you say, you know, it's hit, like it's a different book. Like you just, that's just the wrong book. But if you're in the ballpark with me, people can figure it out.
[00:04:49] Speaker A: Yeah, it helps with anything people searching online nowadays anyway because it was such a unique title in that sense that, you know, what's the furthest place from here for an example is a pretty unique title. So if you just type that into the search engine, it's likely going to come up with your book first. And if you type in punch, a bunch of other things might come up too. So it actually benefits you in that. I mean it's like your name. There's another writer out there, a Pulitzer award winning writer with, named Matthew Rosenberg too. So if you type your name into Google.
[00:05:12] Speaker B: Yeah, he's a New York Times writer for years and years and one of Pulitzer. And it's funny because I used to get, I used to get threatened all the time. He covered the Trump administration a lot and the war in Afghanistan and he used to, I used to get, people just would pop into my DMs to threaten me and just say horrible things. And I always knew what it was and I'd always be like, what's your problem? And then they'd be, they'd explain, they'd be like, you're so mean to so and so or you're so critical of this thing. And I'd be like, yeah, that's not me. I write X Men comics or whatever.
[00:05:48] Speaker A: I read funny books.
[00:05:49] Speaker B: Yeah. And then they apologize and be like, do you know that person's Twitter? And I'd be like, no, you already lost for the day. Like you need to step away from the computer. You're wrong. And I, I said to him once, I, we, we're we, we know each other a little bit just having a name. And I said to him once, I said my dream. He apologized about all the people who come threatening. And I said my Dream is that someday someone is going to threaten you about something I did in a comic. And when I wrote Uncanny X Men, someone did. Someone got into his DM and was like, how dare you kill whoever I had killed in X Men? And he was like, nope, wrong guy. Yeah, it was. It was maybe one of the greatest days of my life.
[00:06:24] Speaker A: There you go. Yeah, perfect. I mean, it could be somewhat worth, you know, Anthony Cleveland, comic book writer. I think that someone in Cleveland named Anthony killed someone or something along those lines. When you Google Anthony Cleveland, something good doesn't come up either. So there's that. It could be worse in that sense.
[00:06:38] Speaker B: But yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:06:39] Speaker A: Now you, now you look for your name. You get all kinds of things like podcaster, comic book writer.
[00:06:44] Speaker B: Right?
[00:06:44] Speaker A: I mean, everything.
[00:06:45] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I mean, if. If there's only two things, then, yeah, you get everything. Well, you get three things. You get comic book writer, podcaster, or Pulitzer Prize winning. I'm not one of those things, but I'll take. I'll take it. Yeah.
[00:06:59] Speaker A: Not to be confused with. Yeah, exactly. No, but, yeah. So you're writing comics. You've been writing comics for a while now, and you have a lot of. You mentioned a lot of titles. Obviously there's more titles as well on your, you know, your discography, your filmography or whatever, comicography in your history. And so you've written for Marvel dc, obviously, independent stuff a lot, for Black Mask, things like that, places like that.
Did you mean to start doing a lot more big two publishing things before you got into doing a lot? Because obviously you did some stuff, independent work around the same time. But, like, was there, you know, is there a. How do you pick where you go? I guess, in that sense.
[00:07:42] Speaker B: Sure, I'm a. Yeah, I'm a Marvel and dc, like, fanboy super nerd for that stuff. So that was always a goal for me when I made comics. But I also, you know, I grew up loving indie comics, and I knew that I wanted to do my own stuff and tell my own stories. But having the goal of making your own stories is much easier because you're just like, well, I just need someone who believes in this. Whereas working at Marvel DC you have a specific person or a few handful of people you have to impress. So one of those always seemed realistic and one of them seemed unrealistic to me. I was like, well, I want to write Punisher and Batman and the X Men, and I want to make my own stories. And the first stuff I was doing was making my own books. So that gets crossed off the list. But yeah, I mean, I was very lucky to.
I did, I did a short story and an anthology at Black Mask was my first published thing. And then I was doing a book with RZA and Ghostface Killer from the Wu Tang Clan and that I brought to Black Mask. I had the book and I was working on it. We didn't have a publisher and I brought that to them. And when I did that, I also brought them a creator owned book which was we can never go home.
And the wu Tang book 12 Reasons to Die was coming out and I was convinced when it was coming out, I was like, this is cool and famous rappers are there and I have amazing artists working on the book. And I was like, Marvel or DC are gonna call me this week. I was like, when the first issue drops, I'll give them 48 hours.
And then they didn't. And then I was like, well, they just need to see that the first issue wasn't a fluke and the second issue they're gonn calling me. And by like the fourth issue I was like, oh, maybe they don't recruit people off of rap comics a lot. Maybe that's not how like Brian Bendis got his start. Or, you know, like that's not how Scott Snyder got his start was doing rap comics. And so I had to sort of reassess and focus on We Can Never Go Home. And you know, I was delusional and crazy to think that they would just call me. And. And when I did one creator owned book that was cool. And I think the second issue of We Can Never Go Home hit shelves. And I think the next day I got an email from Marvel. It was like, do you want to do a 10 page comic about anything?
And so, yeah, I was very lucky to get in there. But it was always a goal for me, even though it was an unrealistic goal. But I did make it happen. So that's a weird origin story, I guess.
[00:10:11] Speaker A: But I mean, it's funny. You don't expect that someone at Marvel would have a Google alert for Matthew Rosenberg and Wu Tang cling and hope that something came up. Right? I mean, that should have been what happened.
[00:10:22] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, obviously they're paying attention to that. Like they always want, you know, anyone around rappers. They're always like, yeah, doors open. You want to write Iron man, you want to write. You know, they, they. So it was weird that it took so long. It's weird that it took me writing eight comics instead of one comic. But sometimes the system doesn't work. I guess.
[00:10:41] Speaker A: Exactly. But I mean, so you write, you know, you get, you get a chance to write books with X Men characters. Batman, you mentioned Joker, you know, all these characters that are over at these big things. I mean for a lot of comic book writers in general, comic book fans would be a pinch me moment in general to be able to like, you know, craft these stories around some of these iconic characters. But do you think that your work in the big two, writing those characters and getting your name in front of some people helped with your pursuit of. Of creator. More creator owned titles nowadays? Like does it help? What's for the, what's the first place I'm here because you did write all those comics at DC and Marvel.
[00:11:16] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, it's, it's. I always.
Comics is funny because you're selling comics to two different people at the same time. You're selling to retailers and you're selling to an audience and the audience. I always assumed because it was a big thing for me at the time that like you fall in love with a writer at, on a superhero book and you follow them, you follow them to their indie work. And that's less and less true. I think. I think that the superhero audience is superhero audience and the indie audience is the indie audience and there's just not a lot of crossover. I actually get far more people who are like I really liked, you know, we can never go home or four kids walk in a bank. So I picked up the superhero book then go the other way. I don't have a lot of people who tell me I like the Joker. So I bought this. A lot of, a lot of people, I don't, I don't want to like say that people don't like the Joker. They just don't seem to go out and hunt down like they'll go read more Batman comics I wrote, but they're not to read, you know, what's the first place from here A lot or maybe they do and they don't tell me, but I hear it going one way or the other. Yeah, but so in that regard, like I don't think that doing the big two stuff puts, I mean it puts a little bit of people awareness and there's definitely some audience that does both for sure. I don't want to dismiss people but, but the big thing it helps with is retailers. Retailers know like, okay, this person puts out stuff that people like and I feel like a confidence that I can put them this book into the hand of someone who wouldn't be familiar with it. I know that they have fans when they do this stuff. And so that definitely helps like being able to say like, hey, you know. And also retailers are flooded with books. Like there are just so many comics every month. So when you're the guy who's like, hey, I read Uncanny X Men. Would you want to check this out? It's a lot easier than being like, hey, I write something you've never heard of. Do you want to check out something else you've never heard of? Like that's just. They just don't have enough time in their day to give everyone the bandwidth. So yeah, it definitely makes it easier for sure in that regard.
[00:13:18] Speaker A: Yeah, I just think about it whenever I do like a press release or whatever for the website and so on and so forth and a publisher puts out, you know, Matthew Rosenberg and then is the parentheses of like known, known works. So like it would say Uncanny X Men or what's the first place here? And it's like a newer creator with like their known works or stuff that you, you Google and you can't even find it. Yeah, and it's like that kind of thing. I can understand that. We're like, hey, do you know so and so from this comic book that was released at someone's local comic book shop that didn't go anywhere else? And it's like, that doesn't help the retailer, you know, have. Because you haven't been proven commodity yet. But like, yeah, X Men attached to your name helps probably.
[00:13:50] Speaker B: And I was there for years. I was, I was putting in books that were like, yeah, this is a webcomic. This is a self published thing. I sold at three conventions. But you want to look professional so you want to have a credit and just hope people don't google it and go, okay, he's done stuff before.
[00:14:07] Speaker A: Well, it's like my brother's old band used to do that with like they'd play it like a generator stage at a festival and they'd be like, oh, I played with, you know who I'm going to throw. Like I played with Ozz Osborne or whatever. And they're like, you did? And it's like, come to find out, they were like on day one of a festival at 11 o'clock in the morning at a generator stage in the parking lot when Ozzy was playing Saturday on the big stage. And they can tell people now they played at a festival with Ozzy Osborne to give them some legitimate.
[00:14:32] Speaker B: Oh sure, yeah. I used to work in music and like there was nothing better than like having your. Your small indie band play one day of like Lollapalooza or whatever. So you could be like, yeah, they played with Nine Inch Nails. Yeah. People were like, oh, they did. And you're like, I mean, sort of in the loosest possible sense of the word. You could pay money and see both bands in the same weekend.
[00:14:53] Speaker A: So, yeah, yeah, maybe not. Maybe you were playing at the exact same time. Who knows? But yeah, they paid the same.
[00:15:00] Speaker B: Yes. The same place in the same general vicinity at the same Roughly the same time frame. Yeah, they played together.
[00:15:08] Speaker A: It was like one of those things that maybe when I Hang your hat on that, then. Hang your hat on that. That's great. I mean, you did more than I did.
[00:15:14] Speaker B: Yeah. Get your credits where you can get them. Yeah, you got somewhere for sure. I mean, I, I still do that stuff with like, variant covers where I'll just be like, yeah, yeah, I worked with Alex Ross and people like you worked with Alex Russell. I'm like, he did three covers for my books. Like, do I know that he even knows what the books were? No. Do I know that he, you know, like, do I not know that he just had an X Men painting lying around and was like, you can use this.
I have no idea that that didn't happen. But like, I'll say, yeah, I worked with Alex Ross a lot of things.
[00:15:45] Speaker A: Why not? Right? I mean, it's, it's, it's. It's. It's a. And that's this cool thing about collaborating and things like on comic books, you know, with. With. I've always said about. One thing I do love about variant covers is I have a couple of friends who are like, kind of local comic book artists, and they don't have their own, you know, book that's majorly on the shelves or anything like that, but they're able to do the variant covers for local comic book shops which gets their name and they. Your. Your artwork out there. And you can say, I did a TMNT cover or whatever cover. You know, have your. Have that be. I mean, that's more some fringe comic book people who are just in it for, you know, a couple of Superman comics and a couple of Batman comics here and there.
Might not under. Might not know who you are for any independent work. So seeing your title on as a sort of story variant would be kind of cool. And, and that's what I love about the variant cover market in general.
[00:16:31] Speaker B: The. That's like on what's the first place from here, it's really fun because we're on issue 22 now, and we. When we started, we were doing, like, a shock and awe campaign of, like, oh, these really huge cool people have done covers for us. And, you know, we got a Marcos Martin cover, and, you know, John Hickman did a cover, and just like, these. We were just, like, taking big swings and asking for favors, and really cool people were doing them. And, like, Scotty Young did a cover. Jenny Frison did a cover. Just like, awesome artists. And we hit a point where we were like, okay, the book is the book, and we're not. We can't ride anyone's coattails anymore. We're on as you. You know, we're in the double digits. We're in the. Of numbering. Like, and I, you know, me and Tyler just sat down and we're like, let's just give people a chance to be like, I did a cover for an Image book. Like, I worked at Image. Like, and. And. And, you know, some of the people don't. Some of the people we reach out to now don't care because they're like mini comics people or web comics people that we just think are cool, but they've never worked in that space. So we're just like, hey, do you want to do this? And they're like, all right, whatever. But then there's other people who are like, we go after some people where, like, there's a few people who, like, it was their first paid cover. It was, you know, or the first covered image. And. And it's, you know, it's such an honor to be like, oh, I think this person is really cool. And I think they're going to matter, and I will always be like, yeah, they did a book. They did a cover for me. And, you know, that. That's such a thrill for me now that, like, you know, both sides of it are cool. Of, like, I love getting a, you know, a Scotty Young cover is. Is an honor. But also, like, seeing a person whose career is starting to take off and being like, yeah, their first cover was for my book is really great.
[00:18:06] Speaker A: I can see that. I mean, it also shoes. I mean, reading things and listening to other podcasts, you're on your own podcast, and so on and so forth. Like, one of the cool things I think, you know, when we discussed about coming on here with you coming on here, was that you actually, like, you're a comic book fan. Like, not saying that other comic book creators aren't, but I'm just saying, like, this conversation, this statement you just made about, like, Being excited about other people being able to be, you know, variant covers on your own books and getting their first cover, so on and so forth. This shows that you care about the industry in the art of comic books in general, which is really cool to me because it, it makes me want to support those comic book creators even more than the people who are just, you know, and then this is not. Alex Ross loves the, the industry too. But I'm just saying, like, for someone who just picks up a painting and gives it in that kind of thing, you know, we're making that up. We're shitting on Alex Ross for that. But that's not truly. He's very dedicated artist. But, but yeah, the care about comics. And that's one thing I've always said about Patton Oswald, for an example. People always just, oh, he's just like, he's a Hollywood person writing comic books. I'm like, no, you don't understand. If you listen to anything with this dude on it, the dude loves comic books.
He's passionate about the industry.
[00:19:07] Speaker B: Patton emailed me like, a year ago and was like, hey, I'm looking for these issues. You did like, do you have them? And he was like, my shop can't get them. And I was like, yeah, I'll get them. And he was like, cool, I gotta pay for them. And I was like, no, you don't got to pay for them. It's like, you're, you're, you're famous. That's fine.
[00:19:24] Speaker A: I'm gonna do this to you that you shouldn't do to me because it sounds cocky, but you know who you are, right? Like, I'm just gonna send these to you.
[00:19:29] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, just like, yeah, just come here.
But like, no, he was like, legitimately, like, I really like the book, and I really want these, you know, these issues. And I didn't, I can't find them easily. And, but yeah, no, I mean, I, I, I grew up reading comics. I never, I never wasn't reading comics my whole life, and I read comics. I, I don't remember a day in the past 10 years where I didn't read something in comics. Like, I read comics every single day. It's like, I, I read comics all the time. And so, yeah, I, I care a lot about the, the industry, but I also just care about the, the medium. I just, I just love comics so much. And like, I, I, every, every week, there's like, you know, I could go to a comic shop every week and just be like, oh, here's 300 bucks. Of stuff that I'm excited about grabbing. And like, you know, the. If people follow me online, I. I post everything. I. Not everything, but I post a bunch of the stuff I buy a lot on. On, like, Instagram, I'll be like, I picked up these books, and I'm not a joke. I'm six months behind on doing that because I. I only do one a week, and I buy more books a week than. Yeah, once. And so I'm. I'm months and months behind on doing it. And someone the other day was like, you're. You're to read pile must be like, almost 100 books. And I was like, my to read pile is like, well over a thousand books. Like, I read a. I read a book. I read a graphic novel every day or every two days, and I still am behind every single week. I fall four or five behind every single week for. For a decade.
[00:21:04] Speaker A: It's. It's funny, that passion I love you mentioned, like, $300. Like, I go into my LCS, and if there's anybody else in there, like, waiting in line or waiting to pick up their books and so on and so forth, and they see my tab come up, they're like, jesus, man. I'm like, oh, yeah, I spent a little bit of money on comic books. I like to read comics. Sorry.
[00:21:20] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
When the pandemic hit, I started. I love. I live in New York, and we have amazing local shops, and I love them and I try and support them as much as I can, but I was like, I'm not going out. Like, I don't want to go get sick, go and pick up books. And all these shops are having a hard time. So I started doing mail order for books, and I would just pick a different shop and do mail order. And I realized it was very funny early on because these shops were like, oh, he's coming in and really, like, gifting us this thing. And I was like, no, it's just what. I shot what I buy in a week. Like, they thought I was giving some kind of, like, donation because I'm like, he bought seven trade paperbacks from us. And I'm like, that's just what came out.
Yeah. I was like, sorry, that's, you know, I wasn't doing anything special. I was just shopping.
I'm an idiot. Like, I don't have a life savings. I have a storage bin with short boxes in it.
[00:22:10] Speaker A: I mean, that's one way to, you know, further the comic book industry is make money off of comics and just put that comic Money back into comics. So there you go. It keeps the LCS going 100%.
[00:22:20] Speaker B: I don't take an income from comics because I put it all back into other people's comics for some reason.
[00:22:24] Speaker A: Well, I always joked with my else, Paul Eaton, who owns Galactic Comics and Collectibles in Bangor, Maine. I always thought, I said if you just do a direct deposit, like, thing, like separate my direct deposit where it just goes into your bank account, we keep track of it, and I just pull from that. So, like, there's always money at your bank account. And yeah, I think that would just be an easy way or like, talk to my work and be like, hey, can I get some sort. Like, instead of paying me, you know, this much in salary, can you just pay this company some money? Yeah, you know, free comics out of it. Yeah.
[00:22:51] Speaker B: Getting paid in gift cards to someone else's business I worked.
[00:22:54] Speaker A: Can you save on taxes there somehow? I bet you could.
[00:22:57] Speaker B: Yeah. I bet you could. The. I used to work when I was started, when I. When I knew I wanted to make comics, I. I had a day job that. That paid me pretty well. And I couldn't. It just took up all my time. And I couldn't focus on making books in my free time because I'd come home and I'd just be burnt out and exhausted and.
And I'd have to work on weekends and it would just spill over. And so I was like, I need to quit my job and take a job where I could just be around comics. And I didn't have any experience to get in at a publisher. And so I took a job in a comic book store. But I had, like, I live really cheap. I don't. I don't have a drug problem. I don't. I don't do anything fancy. I don't. I don't. Like, I eat like a dirt bag. So I'm like, yeah, I eat at the halal cart, right. Like, I get a grilled cheese sandwich from the stand down the street or whatever.
And so I would always forget to pick up my paycheck at my job. I forget for like a few weeks because I wasn't living. A lot of people who work in a comic shop at the comic shop I worked at were living paycheck to paycheck because it's New York City, it's really expensive, and I'd forget it. And so my nickname at the shop was leisure time, because everyone was like, he's just there to buy comics. He doesn't. He doesn't actually want to Work or need to. And then all the time I'd get my check and be like, yeah, I'm just going to take it and store credit and just buy stuff. And so, yeah, they call me Leisure time, which was.
[00:24:17] Speaker A: That's awesome. It's just funny because, like, my lcs, he has one employee. So it's this very tiny shop in Maine, and he has one employee who works very extremely part time, works like Thursdays and like, Saturdays. So he can have Saturday off to spend with his family or whatever. And it was funny because he's really into Pokemon cards and other stuff. Like, he's not into comics that much, but he's there and he's very good, you know, good employee and all that stuff like that. But, like, it was funny because he got upset one day because the dude, like, the comic book shop sells Pokemon cards and he went to another card store and spent money at that other card store. And he's just like, what the hell are you doing here? Like, you, you, you get paid by me and you're going to the other place to buy things. And he's like, I would give you a discount. Like, you could order from the, the catalog, whatever you wanted, and you're going to a neighboring business to give them money. It makes no sense.
[00:25:05] Speaker B: Yeah, I get it though. I, I, I mean, I, when I worked on a comic cup, I definitely shopped at all the other shops in America all the time.
[00:25:11] Speaker A: You guys, you gotta support everybody. I mean, it's, it, it's, it's, you know, everybody has things. And so one of the, I personally think one of the cool things about shopping, like, I, my lcs, is like, yeah, he knows who I am. He knows what's going on. He knows things. And so there's certain things that come in that he's just like, you know, I'm gonna pull this off to the side for you. Or he texts me or so on and so forth. And I had to stop feeling bad that every time he texted me, I felt like I was obligated to buy it. So finally I was like, no, I gotta stop doing this because I'm buying things that I'm not financially able to buy or like, whatever. I'm just like, dude, now I'm all good. Thank you. And then he passes it on to the next person, they buy it, whatever. But he did do it with, you know, the, he got this in yesterday. He got this so I could read the actual.
This one so I could read it. He pulled it off to the side because he just Got this in there. Also had the. The small one too. On that. Yeah, on that too. And so it's been a fun thing. And he didn't even know. Realize we were chatting. It was just like, hey, I think it's something you would like. And I'm like, yes, this is absolutely something I would like to read. And so it's, you know, you had extremely popularity with. With what's the furthest place I'm here, Right? I mean, like, that was a pretty popular book for you. And people, you know, people took off with that stuff like that. A lot of the. My LCs, people who go there, we talk about it a lot. People really excited. He has it on the shelf as a recommended book and so on and so forth. Because he likes. He likes volume one a lot. I don't think he's read past volume one yet. But like he's. He pushes volume one a lot, which is great.
That's ongoing, right? That's. That's. You're still doing that. It's keeping it going and so on and so forth.
[00:26:35] Speaker B: We're going to go to probably our plan was to go to issue 30, but we were also like, it might be 31 at this point, like mapping it as we get closer, we're like, oh, didn't cover all the things we needed to cover in that one. And things get bumped and bumped. So we might go 31. So we're finishing up 22. Should be going to the printer next week. So we still have between eight and nine or ten issues to go.
[00:26:59] Speaker A: Well, if the number of books in your series is anything like your actual individual comics in the series, it probably will go past what you are planning on doing in the first place.
[00:27:07] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're going to go long. It's going to be big, but it'll be. When we're all done, it'll be six volumes in trade. Volume four of what's the First Place from here just came out two weeks ago. A week ago. And so.
And if you haven't, I say this and people think I'm joking, but I'm not. If you've never checked out the book and you want to check it out, you can actually start at volume four. Because volume four is all flashback stuff. That's origins. But then you have to go back to volume one. I'm like, you can. I was like, volume four is a great place to start. And people are like, cool. And they're like, but you can't do volume five after you have done volume one. So it doesn't really help you that much.
[00:27:43] Speaker A: You're Star wars ing us, right? You're doing a whole Star wars thing. You know, prequels and all that stuff. No. Yeah.
[00:27:49] Speaker B: Volume four is Ewok's Caravan of Courage, and then volume one is the Clone.
[00:27:56] Speaker A: Wars movie on that subject. So on May 4, here at the University of Maine in Orono. The University of Maine, like, the actual, like, flagship location, they have a theater. There's, like, a performing arts theater. And on May 4, they're doing Star Wars A New Hope with a live Bangor Symphony Orchestra playing in the soundtrack, which is phenomenal. Excited for it. But the way they explained it in the description of it, it was set 30 years after the Phantom Menace. I'm like, that's such a weird way to explain what this movie is. Like, that's like. It's true. But, like, in the same sense, I'm like, why are you explaining it? Using the Phantom Menace as a base?
[00:28:34] Speaker B: Yeah. I remember my buddy of mine, this is a bunch of years ago, but he was. He was dating a girl who was. Who was a few years younger than him, and we were going to New York Comic Con, and she was coming, and she was like, are they gonna have start. She'd never been to a Comic Con before, and she was like. She said to me, she's like, are they gonna have Star wars stuff? And I was like, yeah, they're gonna have a lot of Star wars stuff in your Comic Con. And she was like, I want the. The good Star wars stuff. And I was like, yeah, they'll have good star stuff. And she's like, not the old stuff. And I was like, like, wait, what? And she was like, I want, you know, like, Phantom Menace stuff or effective clone stuff. I don't. She's like, I don't care about the old stuff. And I. I later grabbed my friend. I was like, hey, I think you have to break up with her.
[00:29:15] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's not gonna work.
[00:29:17] Speaker B: I was like. I was like, I think she maybe, like, that's a generational divide that you've crossed that you did not realize. Like, it's four years, but it. It's like a cavern. And he was like, yeah, it's a little weird. Yeah.
[00:29:30] Speaker A: It's like, if you're dating someone, you're like, oh, yeah, 9, 11. Like, I read the end of history book. It's like, okay, this is not gonna work. This is not like. This is not. This the problem.
[00:29:37] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:29:37] Speaker A: I got Jar Jar as a Jar Jar Binks figure somewhere Back here, right there, there's a little Jar Jar Binks figure.
[00:29:41] Speaker B: I got a. I'm actually, there's my Yoda. I'm actually. This isn't. I'm not in my house.
I went up to visit my mom so I'm actually in my mother's house. So this is the spare room that I stay in. But it has my. I have two life size Yodas. One of them lives in here which my mom has cool with. For some reason her grown ass son keeps a life size Yoda in her house and she's like that's fine.
So that's awesome.
[00:30:09] Speaker A: But. So yeah, you can read volume four of what's the first place from here before you read volume one. Like Star wars for sure. I have a random question about this as we're on the subject. What's the furthest place from here? So you know what's guess out here? I have two. So I have two issues in my pull box at my local comic book shop of second printings of the first 10 issues of what's the first bits of mere waiting for the vinyl. Let's just guess that I'm not going to end up getting those vinyls. Right?
So, so here's the deal. So what diamond did and what's the. You know, we're at a point now where we probably can talk openly about how the struggles of diamond. But what diamond did to my LCS is sent them the issue, right?
[00:30:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:30:50] Speaker A: And say a later date we'll send you the vinyl.
[00:30:52] Speaker B: Yeah, they had, they had the records in the warehouse but didn't put them together for some reason.
[00:30:57] Speaker A: So now my LCS got charged for that comic because they had to pay cod. But now it's like I'm wondering whether or not they're ever going to actually if there is even more if they're ever going to ship the vinyl for those things.
[00:31:07] Speaker B: I just took all of the vinyl back. Oh really, Diamond? Yeah, so just tell your LCS or just email me and I'll get them to you.
[00:31:21] Speaker A: They've literally been sitting in my box for I don't even know how long. And I remember because we're friends on Facebook and I was like seeing that you posted something about how they found a bunch of vinyls and yeah, I.
[00:31:29] Speaker B: Mean they just, they just, they would tell me they would get them and say we got them and then they'd be like a month later I'd be like, are they shipping? And they'd be like we haven't received them yet. And I'd be like, here's the email from you a month ago. It says you got them. Here's this. Here's the name of the person who signed for them. And they'd be like, oh, okay. And then two months would go by and they'd be like, is there any update on these? And I'd be like, what are you asking me? Is there an update? Do you have an update? And they're like, well, we're still waiting on them. Be like, no, that's not true. Here's multiple emails now where you admitted you have them. And that just went on and on. And finally, Image, the great folks in Image who were emotionally and mentally broken by this got it sorted. And diamond swore to us that every single place that wanted vinyl got them. And we then left them there for months and said, you know, I tried to email people and be like, if you're missing any, diamond has them. Every single record is in stock, sitting in stock. And I was telling people, you've paid for them, so you should make sure you got them. And. But it's not possible to reach every shop and it's not possible.
Flooded. And after four months of that, I was like, okay, we're done. I don't want these in your warehouse. You're going to go out of business. So I would like to take back. And I just paid thousands of dollars to have a freight company come and take them. So I have them in a. In a warehouse of my own.
And if anybody wants records, reach out to me.
[00:32:56] Speaker A: It's just funny because I was like, it's been sitting in there. The funny thing is that, like, the three, I had, like, five of them in there, five issues that were waiting for finals, and three of them came in randomly one week. All of a sudden I know where my buddy just got three vinyls in and he's like, cool. I prepared them up. To me, you know, my. My polis obviously went up a little bit that week because I had to buy three. Three of your deluxe editions. But. But then the next week, the next two issues came without vinyl. Vinyls. Everyone was like, yeah, we'll ship those vinyls to you when they come in. And I'm just like, thinking myself. I'm like, what is going on right now? That should have been like. And that was like, what? I mean, this has been going on for, you know, for a while now. So this must have been like the very beginning of unlike. Things are not going so well over there.
[00:33:33] Speaker B: Yeah, it was always interesting to me because I constantly, you know, Stores were upset, as they should be, because it was a real clusterfuck. And I would constantly be like, you can yell at me. Don't yell at Image. Like, it's not Image's fault.
And I'd be like, but also, if you really want to yell at someone, like, all of these are sitting in a warehouse of people that's assured they could do it. Part of the problem was that when we started the project, there was someone at Image who was overseeing it, and there was someone at diamond who was overseeing. And both of those people left.
And suddenly we realized that, like, Image people were like, I don't know what this is. Like, I don't know. And so we had to figure it out. And diamond never got a person up to speed on what it was. And they were just, you know, closing in the process of shutting down warehouses and closing facilities. And so it just. You know, for two years, I had stores being like, you really screwed this up. And I'd be like, yep, I screwed it up. And then after a long time, only in the past, like, nine months, I've had a bunch of those stores come back and be like, okay, I get it now. And I'd be like, yeah, yeah.
[00:34:36] Speaker A: It's funny, because I. I don't know if it's because the small.
The boutiqueness of my. My LCS or my relationship. And my. My LCS owner, Paul, is my. My daughter's godfather. So, like, that's how, you know, we became friends over the years. And, you know, to the point where I need my name and my godfather or my daughter's godfather was that I knew for years that, like, your boxes would come damage from diamond and all this other stuff, that diamond wasn't, like, the All Star distributor out there that they potentially had once been and all that stuff. And, you know, would keep complaining about Damage comics, and they'd be like, oh, they're not. They're not collectibles. They're periodical, so who cares if they're damaged kind of stuff? And. And those kind of things. So for the longest time, I'm like, I'm not blaming Image. I'm not blaming Matt Rosenberg on this. This is definitely a Diamond issue on. There's no way that. That you wouldn't. You were also pretty public and out there on the Internet. So it's not like you're hiding behind something. So you would have been like, hey, I screwed up like this. Hold on one second. Or whatever. Like, it would have been a. It would have been a thing.
[00:35:29] Speaker B: I mean, the problem was that, like, when we started, I was like, I don't know that Diamond's up for this. And Image was like, well, let's talk to them. Like, they're our distributor. Let's talk to them. And Image did the good job of having a good faith relationship with diamond and did and, you know, did carry on a good faith relationship with diamond for years and years. And diamond talked to us and was like, no, we can handle this. Like, we assuredly can handle this. And we were like, cool, great. And then the week the first record shipped to them, there were so many red flags that I was like, hey, should we stop this? Like, this is alarming. Like, the things that they're just, they're built for a certain thing, and when you deviate from that thing, it's very hard for them. They're. They're. They're a big machine that does one thing, thing that moves books and moves comics. And, you know, they were just like, you need a barcode on the front of the record. So I was like, we're not putting a barcode on the front of records. Like, that's crazy thing to ask. And like, there was all this. They were like, oh, you have to do all this. And then, like, I did that and I was like, that was like $3,000 to do all this. And then they didn't follow it. And I was like, hey, I'm not doing that again. Like, you literally asked me to do a thing that I spent thousands of dollars on and you ignored it. And then they were like, then the next one came in and they're like, you didn't do that thing again. I was like, you didn't care that I did it last time, so I'm not going to do it that time. I told you that. And so it's just like, they're a big, They're a big lumbering beast. And they're, they, they were very confident and maybe they could have handled it, but they're obviously facing hard times. And, you know, I feel bad for the really, there's a lot of people at diamond who are very passionate about what they do. And really there. Because they love comics and they bust their asses and there are some people who are not doing that at diamond. And there are. And there's not enough people. I mean, it's everything. Comics, there's not enough people. It's a, It's a very small industry. It's a very small. It's a niche industry. And like every, you know, the answer to almost every complaint anyone has in comics is there aren't enough people, there isn't enough time. And when people are like, you know, I. Creators are always like, I sent a pitch to this company. I didn't hear back. Like, the editors are working 70 hour weeks and are underpaid. Like, they don't have time to do this. When people are like, oh, this company didn't promote my book. I'm like, the publicist of that company is doing 20 books a week. And like that every single thing. The answer is just like, there aren't enough people. There isn't enough time at the end. And that's true for Diamonds. True for everyone.
[00:37:51] Speaker A: Yeah, but. And then we're in an industry that has a smaller profit margin too. It's not like you can make a ton of money off of a four dollar book. It's just not like, like possible, you know, rising cost of things and things like that too. Like, it's.
[00:38:03] Speaker B: I was talking to Matt Pizzolo, who runs Black Mask, where I got to start the other day, and he was like, yeah, I was going over some old invoices. He used to run a DVD distributor, like, manufacturer distributor. He used to put out like cool underground movies and stuff. And he was like, I was looking at invoices and he's like, we used to pay 40 cents for a DVD and sell them for $30. He's like, now we pay $1.80 for a comic and sell it for $4. And he's like, I really have screwed this up. And I was like, yeah, it's a little rough. It's a little rough.
[00:38:35] Speaker A: Exactly. And, and it's, it's, it's just, just tough.
[00:38:37] Speaker B: So.
[00:38:37] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it doesn't help with that. And same thing with like an lcs. Like, there's never enough people who work at an lcs, in my opinion. So, like, it's all, it goes all the way down to the point where, you know, there's plenty of ideas out there. I think, I think that there's, you know, and there's just obviously not enough space on shelves for putting all these ideas out there. But luckily you've been able to get yours out there.
[00:38:55] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, no, I'm very lucky. And you know, I, I mean, it goes back to the thing you said about, you know, like, does writing Uncanny X Men help you? Like, retailers get 50 new number ones a month? More 60. And, and like, people expect their retailer to know what's inside each one of them. I'm like, that's insane. Like, and, and I Talked to creators who were like, yeah, my talk to a shop. He didn't even know my book existed. And I was like, did you read 60 number one issues this month? What did you read 60 comics this month? Like, while running a business that is very, a very small, very intense business. And, and so yeah, when you're like, I wrote on Candy X Men, then people are like, okay, what do you have to say? And you can get two minutes of their time to be like, this is my book, whatever. So I'm always really grateful for anyone who takes the time and like, you know, that goes to Diamond. Like I, you know, there are people at diamond that I, I wish them the best of luck. I mean, I hope diamond recovers. Diamond was a great thing. I hope, I hope they recover for the industry and all of that. But there's people who work at Diamond Tour. I'm like, yeah, I hope you go have a great job somewhere else away from comics. But then there's, there's people there that I'm like, I, I really hope it turns around. And it's true. But I'm very appreciative of the time that a lot of people at diamond gave us and, and really did work hard. I mean, like in the past month, the warehouse worked really hard to get me my stuff back because I was like, hey, I have like my life savings in your warehouse. And you filed for bankruptcy. Can I not have that? And they were like, we'll figure it out for you. And that's amazing. That's really kind of them.
[00:40:25] Speaker A: So I will say that the transition from Image, I mean your books now what's the first place from here we're taking everyone down with us our image. So that's a Lunar distribution anyway. Because that happened a little while ago before this bankruptcy stuff. Anyway, Image had switched to Lunar.
You could wholesale through diamond, but that the main place to get Image books was Lunar. I will say with previews. World's been awesome. I've always loved Google Search that, find what I need to know. The one thing I've always had a problem with the comic book industry was like FOC dates and stuff like that. And I think that one thing that Lunar's website just go to lunardistribution.com for anybody. This is not for retailers. There's anything, anybody can go to this and you can type in. We're taking everyone down from us. And it tells you FOC dates, initial dates, it tells you on street, street dates, all that stuff right on that thing. And it tells you like what's on FUC is like a section. It's like telling you what's coming out this week and so on and so forth. And I think that is a huge.
Forget the actual getting comic books in the stories part. To me, as a person who enjoys reading comics and know when they want to be at, want to know when they're out, plus someone who works in, you know, podcasting industry, it's such a great thing to know this information and they just put it right out in front for you.
[00:41:35] Speaker B: I mean, you know, not to tell tales out of school, but like, when. When I was at Mar. I was at Marvel for five years. I was exclusive there and wrote hundreds of books for Marvel. And I used to have to text message retailers, what's the FOC on my book? Because exactly, I wouldn't know it. It's not in the. It's not in Previous world. And I agree Previous World is a great site. Like, it really was super helpful always and. But they wouldn't. That information is not in previews. No shops had it on their information. And I would email my editors, be like, what's my foc? And they'd be like, I don't know, man. Like, I'm just. I make the book and I give it to someone. I don't know when it comes out. And you're like, yeah, no, that's. They would have to go poke around the office. And I tried to email shops and I found out years, years ago that like, a bunch of. A bunch of creators would do that. They'd have a shop. They'd be like, what do I have on ffoc? Like, when is it?
[00:42:22] Speaker A: Because I would do that, I'd email my local shop like, hey, by the way, I want this. He goes, foc was last week. And I'm like, what? What the hell? How did I miss this? Like, this deadline? And like, now I can do this. And the FOC for, like, this might be. With the diamond change and Lunar being basically image saying we're not doing diamond anymore, that it's images at lunar 100%. Is that your foc for this book? Look, we're taking everyone down with us. I think shifted ahead back. So it's March 3rd now instead of the 26th of February.
[00:42:45] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:42:46] Speaker A: So I think it actually was moved for that. I think it's because people transitioning over and things like that too. Like, they're getting it figured out there.
[00:42:53] Speaker B: But we actually. It was funny because the next week is the Comics Pro, which is like the. There's A retailer coalition, and they have a big thing, and I'm going out there. And I was like, we specifically scheduled our book the day it was coming out. So we'd be like, foc is the day. The Monday after Comics Pro and all this stuff. And then I kept telling people like, well, it's the. It's the day after Comics Pro. And then someone's like, no, it's not. I was like, no, it is. Like, we spent months planning this. And they were like, no, it's the week after that. And I was like, oh, it moves. Like, okay.
[00:43:27] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's like one of those. I think it was trying to, like, catch people up who had ordered at other places or so on. So, yeah, match dates up and things.
[00:43:32] Speaker B: Yeah, I think there's a, you know, like, padding to make sure that diamond and Diamond UK could. Could get books and have them be late. But.
[00:43:40] Speaker A: Yeah, it's just. Yeah, it's kind of funny, but that's always been a mystery to me in the sense like this in. In my LCS owners even, like, you know, Penguin has their own focs versus what, what diamond had, what Lunar had, what, you know, all these different things. And it was like one of those things. Like, I always want to tell people, order this book, you know, focs the state. But I always never. I have, like, emailing editors and they're like, I don't know. And so I did, like, same thing. I'm emailing, distribute comic book store and be like, hey, when are you ordering this? And it's just a weird thing.
[00:44:08] Speaker B: It is funny because I hate FOC as a thing that, like, the public has to know about. I hate it. I hate it so much. I feel like, you know, no one has to be like, what is the, you know, ticket on sale date for this movie? I want to see? Like, they're just like, movies out. I want to go buy it. I understand why FOC is important. I work in a shop, I work in the industry. And so I, as an insider, get it. I hate having to explain it to readers and I hate having to push it. But it really is so helpful to everyone, like to the publisher, to the retailer, to the creator. Like, ordering a book before FOC is the life and death of any book. Like, it doesn't matter if you're a Spider man title or a book on Vault or Mad Cave or awa. It's life or death of the book is. Is pre orders. And so I get why people do it, but my utopian dream of comics is I can just be like, the book is out today, you can go get it. Or like this is out tomorrow. You don't have to know what an FOC is. I don't have to explain that to you. I hate it so much. But easier.
[00:45:13] Speaker A: It's better, you know, if Lunar is out there and it has this and they're putting it out in front of people and I don't even know. I never understood why it's also hidden. Like why on diamond it couldn't. Previous world could have been like, like, you know, msrp. It could have been like street date and then FOC day. Like why couldn't have always just been there on the site. But it's like I do, I talk to people who are authors too and they're promoting their book and they're like, their book comes out tomorrow and like pre order it today, just go on to a website and order it and they can just order it. Whereas if you go to lcs, like, well, I ordered six copies because only six people told me they wanted or whatever. Yeah, it really impacts a lot of small stores versus it does the bigger stores because obviously Midtown Comics is getting what they need. Like this is not like they're going to order, they're going to over order because they have their big online retail and they also their shops and so on and so forth. But the independent store my buddy store owns. Oh picks up five issues. Five, five comics. Five issues of copies of number one issue or whatever. That makes a difference because if six people want it, then it may make it harder for him to get that six.
[00:46:05] Speaker B: Yeah, it's 100% and it's, it's, you know, I say to people when I explain it, I'm always like, FOC is fascinating because like one, the first reason it matters is because stores buy the books. They're not, it's not like a bookstore where they're like, well if no one wanted it, we return it, we get our money back. They're paying for it. So they really do any metric to know the demand is good. But also in that every store is different and some stores don't use anything. But they all for the most part use some sort of math that where it's like, oh, if someone pre ordered this, that means that that person accounts for this much excitement and I'll get this many for the shelf. And like I know stores where every pre order means they think 10 more people will wander in on the day the book comes out and buy it. So literally when you Pre order the book, you're not only helping yourself get one, you're helping us sell 10 more copies and you're helping 10 more people who don't pre order their books go in and be able to find a book. And it's really the difference between life and death. And so when I tell people like, yeah, if you're able to pre order a book like it, it helps us. Like it doesn't sell a book, it sells. It can sell up to 10 books, it can sell 20 books. For me, like it's a big difference to pre order one copy of the book. And you know, some places they order it and they go, okay, you'll get it and they order the one. But still every sale.
[00:47:21] Speaker A: Yeah. And it also depends on like they know, like I know my local comic book shop, Galactic Comics, doesn't sell a lot of Star Trek comics. So anybody orders a Star Trek comic, he orders a comic for that person who's a Star Trek fan. Because they don't have a lot of off the street walking people being like, you guys have Star Trek comics. And so there's nothing in Star Trek or anything like that. But I'm just saying, like they're just in that market, they don't have it. But he knows that like he could over order on Amazing Spider man because Amazing Spider man obviously is going to sell just for the title of Spider man. Even issue 62 is going to randomly be busier than issue 61 for some odd reason or something. But there are people who come in, I'm in there a lot on either Tuesday or Wednesday just hanging out and chatting. And there's a lot of people who walk in there who don't enjoy planning. Like myself. Like I enjoy the planning part of like what comics come out in a couple weeks and so on and so forth. It's part of my, part of my like stress relief in there are other people just walk in and be like, what's out today? You know, and so that pre order, like you mentioned, if it orders 10 more, then we're taking everyone down with us. Has a spot now that people actually will see it, which is cool.
[00:48:18] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, it's, yeah, it's, it's a very frustrating side effect of being in a small industry. But it's, it's. Yeah. And, and you know, I will say like I, I live my whole life not being someone who plans ahead. I'm like, well, I don't. I, you know, I've made dinner reservations 10 times in my life. Like I'm not, I'm not that guy. Like, yeah, you know, I show up to rent a car and I go, do you have cars? And a lot of times sometimes they're like, no. And I go, okay, I don't get a car.
[00:48:47] Speaker A: I'm going to U Haul. I'm going to rent a moving truck.
[00:48:51] Speaker B: I guess I'm going to buy a bike. I don't know what we're doing here.
So I'm not a good planner. I mean, I'm literally going to California next week. And I bought. I was like, oh, I guess I have to buy a plane ticket. I bought it like yesterday. Probably could have saved me some money. So I totally get people who don't want to plan. And I don't ever, I don't ever impugn anyone for being like, I like to go in on Wednesday and see what looks cool and buy it. But also with that, I also say, like, bless the people who are willing to call their shop or go to their shop and be like, hey, can you get this for me? Sometimes there are people who, like, there are a few shops where I notice that they like to. Or they're willing to take orders on like a Twitter or Blue sky or whatever. And so like, you'll tweet something and people will respond to the tweet and be like, hey, and tag the store. Can you put this in my poll? And the shop will be like, done. Yeah, man. Bless everyone. Like, my heart to everyone involved in this. Like, it's so complicated and frustrating and, and you really help us out so much. So.
[00:49:48] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, and even I know we were recently on, on David Harper's podcast off panel, one of the greatest podcasts in comic book, you know, history out there. I. I love David, but the. You had mentioned on there too about not having a. A problem walking into a shop and seeing too many of your comics on the show too. So there's also that. That problem where it's like, you never want. Want a comic book store to be straddled with like, you know, your books. I mean, it's nice to go to the back stock and know that, like, if I want it back there and someone's like, oh, I didn't get issue four. What's the first place I'm here that they may have one back there, but you don't want to go back there and see that, like randomly issue four, there's like 30 copies of it.
[00:50:25] Speaker B: It's a nightmare. That's $60 out of that person out of that shop owner's pocket. That's the worst feeling in the world.
You know, if I went into a store and was like, hey, open your register. I'm gonna light $60 on fire, people would be like, you're a monster. Human. But like, yeah, no, I, I, I hate it. I, you know, part of the thing, I try and always be really available to retailers and reach out and, and, you know, get them whatever they need and, and whatever. But I always say, like, I'm never going to tell you to order more books. Like, I've never been in your shop. I have no idea what your readership is. You may have one person who will buy an indie comic. I'm not gonna sit there and be like, you should take 20. Like, that's stupid. You shouldn't, you should take one. But if you take one and you want me to, like, make a video for your store, being like, the copy is available today, like, I'll do it, like, whatever you need me to do. But, like, I don't. Yeah, I, I've never once in my life pressured a shop to take more books, and I never will. And it's, it's interesting too, because, like, at Image, you get like, shops do store exclusives and, and they'll be like, I want an exclusive. And, and I've a couple times said to shops, like, like, you have to take 500, you sell 500. Do you have 500 customers? Like, do you have a good website for that? And, you know, a lot of people do have a plan or they go, no, I mark it up to this much. So I actually only have to sell 150 to make profit and then anything. And that's a risk I'll take. And you know, environmentally, not the best feeling in the world to be like, combined 350 pieces of garbage to make money. But, you know, it's fine. That's the industry. That's how it works. But I, I always, you know, I always say people, like, if you take a store exclusive, man, I'll put in my newsletter. I'll link to you. I'll do whatever you need. Because, like, you're taking 500 books. That's so many copies. Like, Jesus. Like, you know, in some places they're like, yeah, we roll with that. You know, like, we had a lot of exclusives on what's the first place from here, number one. And I think a lot of places were like, yeah, no, it did great. You know, like, I know, I know a couple people are like, yeah, we sold out in a week. And then I think Some people were like, yeah, we still got them. I'm like, well, maybe we'll make it. Well, maybe we'll make a TV show someday. You can sell us on ebay.
[00:52:32] Speaker A: And it also depends on the thing, too. Like, I know my buddy's shop did one for TMNT with a local artist. TMNT number one, Jason Aaron's around here. And. But there was a one in 250 or something like that, which that sells for 250 bucks. You know, there's a lot of difference. Like, if you did your, you know, exclusive, then you're like, oh, yeah, we have a one in five, and that's all there is. And it's like, well, that's really not going to be a good thing for me to have. But, you know, it all depends on what it is. But it is a battle because I know that, like, store exclusives at 500 minimum is a lot of comics.
[00:52:59] Speaker B: It's a lot of comics. Yeah. And I get it. It's a lot of work for everyone involved. It's a lot of work for an artist to make a cover. It's a lot of work for the printer to change plates and turn on machine. It's a lot of work for a publisher to get a, you know, to handle this. And, you know, Image had to bring on staff to, like, deal with this. So it's like, well, you can't just be like, they want 10 copies. It's like, there's a guy whose job it is to deal with this. Like, he can't. It has to. His job has to make money. That's how jobs work.
[00:53:24] Speaker A: Is that really how it works? Like, I don't. Like, I thought they were just donating their time to do these.
[00:53:29] Speaker B: Yeah, it's weird. All these people are just not. Not. They want to be in it for the love. It's so messed up.
[00:53:34] Speaker A: Yeah, no, but, like, so.
[00:53:36] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:53:36] Speaker A: So what's the first place I'm here was awesome. I do love that element you had the record. We kind of. I kind of on some things there, but, like, the record was awesome. I think the cool. Have. Having that. That thing was like a unique thing in comic books in general, which is really cool. I mean, these comic books have come with, like, trading cards before, like, you know, poly bags and stuff like that. Anyway. But, like, having the record attached to it was really kind of a cool thing. And I. I found out about that before, ahead of time, before foc, and I was able to tell my LCS owner so I could get one. But you now have this next book you're coming out with. Your call. We're taking everyone down with us. That comes out March 26th. Next foc is March 3rd. So make sure you tell your LCS owner that you want a copy of this book, but no, or just go.
[00:54:17] Speaker B: In the day, whatever, do whatever. Buy it the week after it comes out, that's fine too.
[00:54:21] Speaker A: I don't care what you're not selling. You're not gonna only make 100 of them so you can have like a superficial second printing which, like, oh my.
[00:54:28] Speaker B: Gosh, we sold it. I mean, we definitely. I do love. You know what's funny is that I've never.
When we launched, what's the first place from here, we. It was like height of the pandemic and there was massive paper shortages and image was like, there's no reprints. Like, we can't do them. And we were like. And our books sold out. And we were like, okay, but we're sold out. And they're like, cool. There's no reprints. Like we told retailers, there's no reprints. Order it aggressively because there's no more coming. And like, my book, and I think Newburn by Chipski and Jacob Phillips launched like, like the same week or the week before, and they also sold out. And we both were. Me and Chip were just like, yeah, but like, people want our book and they can't get it. And they were like, we literally can't make them. They were like, there's no, there's no space at the printer. There is no extra paper. There's nothing, like, there's no way to do this. And so we never get a reprint. And I'm always like, yeah, you never reprinted that book. But it's fine. There's copies, it's not hard to find. And so I hope the new book, I, I hope there's copies that it's not hard to find, but also not too many copies. People are losing the money. It's a great.
[00:55:35] Speaker A: It's a balance that you have to try to figure out. But. But I mean, so this is new book. It's you artist is Stefano Landini.
[00:55:44] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:55:45] Speaker A: And Sergio. Sergey Titoff, Is that right?
[00:55:49] Speaker B: No, well, no, Roman. He has another name, but he goes by Roman.
[00:55:54] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:55:57] Speaker B: Hassan and. Yeah. Hasan Otzman El how on letters. Actually we have two colorists because there's like they sort of tag teamed it and did it together. So it's Roman Tudor and Jason Wordy and Hassan Atsmay Nelhau on letters and Becca Carey. Did our designs, and then the Tiny Onion team are our sort of editorial and production team.
[00:56:20] Speaker A: Yes. Actually, the episode as we're recording here, the episode that dropped today was with Steve Fox, and Steve said that nothing but good things about you, which is really crazy. Right?
[00:56:27] Speaker B: Steve said that? Oh, the worst. He's the worst. No, Steve's.
[00:56:31] Speaker A: He obviously doesn't know you well enough yet.
[00:56:32] Speaker B: Right.
The. Steve's funny because Steve. I've known Steve for a decade. Steve's been a friend for a long time.
And when I met him, he was a journalist, and he was a very good comics journalist, and that's how I knew him. He was also my editor's roommate. When I first met him, he was my Marvel editor's roommate. And so I've known him for years and years. And then he was writing stuff, and I was like, oh, Steve's a really good writer. And then James Tynan started using Steve as his editor, and I was like, like, huh, that's weird. And then he was like, he's a great editor. He's one of the best editors I've ever worked with. And I was like, really? The journalist writer? Like, okay. And then, you know, as things started going and we. We needed an editor for the book, and Tiny Onion was hiring their editors as staffers and sort of, you know, James is one of my close friends. And so I was like, yeah, you know, I want to talk about doing that. And he's like, yeah, would you want Steve to be your editor on the book? And I was like, yeah, I think so. And there's a weirdness because we've known each other for a decade and never worked together. And then. And he's a great editor, and. And I feel weird because he's also a really good writer and write so comics I really like at Marvel. And I'm like, yeah, there's a lot of weight when it. When your editor is also like, this is how I do it. And I'm like, that's better.
[00:57:45] Speaker A: God damn it.
[00:57:46] Speaker B: You should write the book. God damn it.
[00:57:48] Speaker A: Exactly. He also writes Little golden books as well, too. So if anybody know that, like, my son had a Steve Fox Mario book on his shelf in his room, and my son's three and a half. I was like, like, this is insane. I can't believe we own a book as written by Steve.
[00:58:01] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. He's. Yeah, He. He. He has the most horrific. He's a horror film fanatic, and he's like a horror lover. And, like, if a horror film comes out, he goes to see it. And we talk about that stuff all the time. And he comes up with these, like, really intense, brutal things and then is writing books for three year olds for four years. Like, he's a versatile dude. Steve's very good at it. Steve's very good at everything he does. Annoying.
[00:58:26] Speaker A: Oh, look at that. Look at you saying something nice about Steve over here. It's really nice.
[00:58:29] Speaker B: Yes. I mean, it's annoying. It's annoying that he's so good at everything. I don't. I don't like it, but he is. I have to admit it.
[00:58:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:58:35] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm gonna lie about him.
[00:58:38] Speaker A: But so. So you obviously have Steve attached us. You mentioned all the people that are attached to this, this new book. We're taking everyone down with us. But how did this book itself come to be? I mean, where did this. Where did this idea come from? Where did it spark from?
Did you need a new. New. New filler now that you're ending? What's further space from here? At some point in the future, was there something that needs to take that place or what? How did this come to be?
[00:58:57] Speaker B: No, the book. The. The idea is actually old.
The book started a long time ago.
Me and Stefano, who's a co. Creator of the book and the artist on the book, Stefano and I worked together on the Punisher. Okay. He did a bunch of issues of Punisher, and he was great and super fun to work with. And.
And then we always were just like, oh, we should do more stuff. And we never did. And then eventually in 2020, I did a book at Marvel that I was sort of like, I do this book, but I want this character. And they were like, that character's hard to do. And I was like, if I put him in this book as a sort of launching pad, can we do him in a bigger way? And after that, and they were like, yes. And so I did a book to set up a different book book. And they were like, stefano Landin is going to draw the next book. And I was like, oh, great. I, you know, he's great. I'm really excited. And then the pandemic hit.
Everything was paused. A bunch of editors were furloughed, A bunch of staff was furloughed. All the. All the writers and artists were told, pencils down. Like, you know, until we know exactly what the shape of the world is, like, we're not paying for anything right now.
And so we were paused. And, you know, we've been working on the book. And then things shifted and things shifted hands and New people were brought in, and our book. Our editor was on leave because of the pandemic. And so our book was given to another editor. And he either.
I've never. It's never been explained to me. He either didn't want me on the book or didn't know I was on the book, but suddenly Stefano emailed me and was like, why did you quit our book? I was like, don't know what you're talking about, dude. Definitely did not. Definitely very much need it to start again so I can eat. And he was like, I just got a script, and it's not by you. And so I, of course, made a bunch of frantic phone calls and found out that I was fired.
And Stefano, being a true hero, was like, no, I took the book to do it with you, and I don't want to do it if it's not with you. So he left. Left the book and was like. I was like, oh, dude, don't do that. Like, it's paying work. It's your. You have. You have kids. Like, don't. Don't quit it. And he's like, no, no, I.
And you know, I will. I'm ride or die for Stefano because he's a great artist and he's a great guy, but that for me, I was like, geez, that's whatever this guy wants to do. I'm by his side. And he immediately was like, hey, do you want to do a creator own book? And I was like, yes. And he was like, I have an idea. And I was like, cool. That makes my job so much easier. And he sent me a drawing of a robot and was like, here it is. And I was like, homie, that's not an idea. That's a robot. And he was like, no, he's just cool. And he, like, he fights, and he's like, kind of a spy thing, and he's like a sexy robot. And I was like, dude, what? Like, what are you talking about? And I was like, all right, give me a couple weeks. And I came back to him, and I was like, here's this whole story, and it's, you know, it's. It's about a girl and her relationship to her father, and her father's a sort of an evil scientist, and she doesn't know that. And, you know, all in all, she. She. Her life is ruined, and she has to go on the run with this robot and, like, has to learn about who she is and with the rope, with the relationship to the robot, and. And it's about family. And it's about regret, and it's about, you know, following in your. Your parents footsteps, and it's about revenge, and it's all these things, and I made it heavy and intense and all this stuff. And it wasn't until I was writing issue three that I was like, oh, man. You know, I think I overthought this. And maybe Stefano's idea of just, like, a sexy robot that punches people would have been cool, but in reality, like, I think that's why I care so much about the book and why I hope people do is because me and Stefano had different ideas. And so every idea. There's something great about having a collaborator where you're in lockstep and you just think the same thing, and you're just like, this is what we want to do. Me and Stefano are like that. But it's different because we're both trying to make two slightly different things. And so everything really has to be tested and proved. Like, it really has to be, you know, the. The drama and the emotional stuff and the human elements of it really have to work because Stefano is not showing up for that. He's showing up for badass robot punching people's heads off. And I need to really. And he has to really sell me on that. And I really do think that the book is better because it is both this human drama that's. That's very real, and also, you know, it's a robot that punches people's heads off. Like, it's great.
So, you know, it's. It's a. It's very fun, and it's a different type of collaboration than I'm used to, and I think it's. It's like a better book because of it.
[01:03:49] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, it's fantastic. I was lucky enough to read what I've heard is a version of issue one. Is that correct?
[01:03:58] Speaker B: It is a version of issue one.
Yeah.
We sent out to certain press people got it, and they're writing, reviews are going out now that I was like, okay, it's not the full book. And we sent out to stores, every or most comic shops got a single copy so they could read it, the copy that you've ended up with. And so those are hitting, you know, lucky fans are getting them. And it is not the final book. The final book was done, but I made the decision to be a weirdo and be like, I want to take this scene out. I want something. I want something extra for the.
For the people who buy it, and I want a surprise. And actually, there's a whole page that was redrawn that Stefano was like, I don't like this page. And we were like, yeah, you could do it different. And he was like, like, I already did it. It looks like this. And he came back and we were like, oh, that is much better.
And so there are. There are at least four pages that are one page that's completely different and three pages that are not in the book that everyone has seen so far.
[01:05:04] Speaker A: Well, I think as a press person, I think it's pretty cool in that sense that I read it for discussion with you. You know, I'll read it for some sort of review. But, like, also, it makes me also when I pick the book, because I always pick up every time I read a book like this advanced 99.9 of the time. I also pick it up at my lcs. This is like, not one of those things where, like, oh, I get free comics to read, and that's where I leave it. But no, 9 out of 10 times I'm going to the LCS of picking up this book. And. And so when I get the book on March 26, I'll actually be able to be kind of cool, is I'll be able to read it again and. And get the full. Full story on it, which I just think is kind of cool because it. I would say this nine out of ten times that I go to the store and buy it. I'm also potentially not reading the. That issue over again right then, because I just read it. So it's like. But, like, if it's different, if there's something different about it, I'm probably gonna end up reading it.
[01:05:47] Speaker B: It's different. There's a whole sequence in it that you know, and people are gonna be like, why did you leave it out? Because it's not like there's a twist. It's not like a twist ending. We don't have a, like, Samuel Jackson showing up being like, join the Avengers thing in there. It's just a scene in the middle of the book that I was like, I don't want this in there. And we just didn't put it in there. And my editors were a little confused, and everyone was a little confused. I was like, I just don't want it. I don't want it in there. And so we didn't put it in. And I love the scene. The scene is one of my favorite scenes in the book. I just didn't like. I feel like, yeah, different version should be different.
[01:06:20] Speaker A: I mean, create her own title. You can do what you want, it's yours.
[01:06:25] Speaker B: I thought it was a really weird thing. And then Tyler Boss, my partner on what's the first place from here? And four Kids Walking away, pointed out that the last issue of 4 Kids Walking to a bank is different than the trade of four Kids walk into a bank. We redrew the end of the book and added three pages and just never told anyone. We were just like, well, if you read it in singles, it's different. In the trade, it's better. But, like, we didn't. We didn't publicize that. We didn't announce it. And also in what's the first place from here, we took four issues out of the middle of the run and didn't collect them in the trades. And that's what volume four is. Because we were like. I was like, I want to play with the reading order. I think in the single issues, this reads better, but I think in the trade order, it'll read better this way. And so we rearranged the way it's read in trade and restructured that.
So I guess this is a thing I do a lot for no discernible reason. It's just like, I keep tinkering with things. If I get a chance to make something twice, I'm gonna make it different each time. So I guess I do that. And it's weird. And I don't have a good explanation for why I do it. I just think it's fun.
[01:07:25] Speaker A: It's also like, if people do listen to podcasts and they hear this, you know, this thing, that this is happening or it's out there on social media or something like that, it also also brings talk and discussion around it. I mean, you. You. It seems like, in my opinion, not that you don't normally do this, but it seems like you're putting an extra push on this comic book on your side of things. I mean, it seems like having the little flip book and the issue going out to the thing and the press thing and the podcast, like, it just seems like you're obviously, as an image book, you have to do a lot of this on your own, which is part of the whole deal. But, like, it seems like you're like, you care and you're doing a lot. A little extra this time around.
[01:07:59] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, I mean, some of it goes back to what's the first place from here where, like, we did the records because we were like, we're gonna put these in comic shops, and music fans and record collectors are gonna come in to get them. And that is a great idea in principle. And as we mentioned prior, there were some hiccups. And so it became frustrating and it became hard to do. Like, you know, we were. The book was in Rolling Stone. The book was on Brooklyn Vegan and all these, like big music blogs talking about it and being like, go to your comic shop. And that was great.
But then there were hiccups. And I was like, when we started this book, I was like, well, is there something I can do like that that's a fun novelty. And I was like, no, you know what? Like, that was my outreach to outside of the comics reader to be like, come into a comic shop. Now I want to go inward and be like, people in a comic shop. What can I be doing to create comic shop? What can I do to help sell your customers on this? How can I help that? And so, yeah, rather than going and making an item that then stores buy, I was like, I'm just going to give you stuff. So we made a preview book that's half my book and half a book called you'll do bad Things, which is Tyler, who draws. What's the first place from here. It's a book he's writing that comes out the same day on image. And so there's this. Every shop has like 10 copies of this preview book book that is a free thing check out. You can, you can go pick it up. And it's, it's, you know, it's just previews of both books. But there's an interview. I interview Tyler and he interviews me in it. And that's exclusive to that. So it's a little collectible item if you're a completist nerd for my interviews or whatever. But like, you know, it's a little bonus. And, and you know, we just gave all those to shops for free. We're like, you don't have to pay for this. This is for you to help try and sell copies of this. And. And we sent out the preview book and we're sending out posters. And now I'm in a, like, more personal, like, hey, if you need something to chops, like, you know, you want me to make a video for your store? Do you want me to. I was, you know, I did a podcast last night at 10 last night for a shop in, in Kentucky that they were like, we have like a bunch of customers who listen to our podcast. Do you want to come and tell them about the book? And I was like, yep.
And I was in the middle of my dinner, so I have my Dinner I ate at 11pm Cold. But I, you know, I love it. It was great. It was great to get to do that. And yeah, I'm just trying to give stores the tools to try and sell the book this time rather than do the circus and maybe I'll go back to the circus next time and whatever. But I thought it was a good time to be a little more circle the wagons and help shops sell a thing without it being a big stunt.
[01:10:36] Speaker A: It's a great book. Like I said, so far what I've read.
It's funny how you mentioned the dinner thing. I did have Brian Michael Bendis and Alex Maliev on the podcast where Alex ate ice cream through most of the episodes. So there's that too, right? You know, just, you know, just sitting there eating his ice cream. He's like, I don't know what I'm doing here. I'm just eating ice cream. Like, okay, cool.
[01:10:53] Speaker B: Sounds good.
I love those guys. I went to, I went to dinner once with Alex and a bunch of people as me and Donny Cates and Alex Malive and Dan Panosian and Joe Quesada and, and Alex. We went to a really fancy steakhouse which is like both me and Donnie like wildly out of our element where we're just like, you could have just gone to the cart outside that Sol hamburgers.
And we went to the steakhouse and Alex was sitting there and Alex is just like so fancy and so, so cool. And he was like, oh. He's like, I can't figure out what the pricing is here. And we were like, oh, it's by the ounce. Like you're paying by the ounce of different steaks. And he was like, cool. He's like, what is a big steak? I want a big steak. And I was like, I don't know, like an 8 ounce steak, a 10 ounce steak, like that's a pretty big steak steak.
And I was like, you start to get into novelty steak territory after that. And he was like, yeah, maybe I'll get a 10 ounce steak. And we're like, cool. And he's like, I want this one. And Donnie just, I remember Donnie kicked me on the table and was like, that's over a hundred dollars an ounce. And I was like, oh my God. And Donnie was like, I can't sit at a table with a guy eating a thousand dollar steak. And like Alex knew that he wasn't paying for it. He knew that it was like we were at a Marvel dinner. It was like going to go on a corporate credit card. And I was like, I still can't. I can't. On principle, I just can't. I can't. And so I had to be like, why don't we just get a couple of the smaller steaks for the table and everyone can try them and see what they like. And like, I think Alex was really mad at me. I, like, tried to jump in front of his thousand dollar, one thousand dollar steak. And I was like, I will have a panic attack if I watch first. I need a thousand dollar steak. I will lose my mind.
But, yeah, he's a. He's a very. And he's earned it. He's one of the best. Oh, yeah. Comics history. And he's very. He's very fancy and he's very sophisticated. And like, I hope he eats a thousand dollar steak every night, just not in front of me.
[01:12:43] Speaker A: Me. Well, it's funny too, because I'm like, I don't know if another creator, I'd be like, hey, do you mind not eating ice cream right now? But I'm like, how could I? This is like, to me, it was like a dream come true to talk to either one of them about comics. But it was like, okay, man, whatever. I'll just deal with it. And Brian gave him for it though, too. He's like, are you just eating ice cream over there? Like, what's going on right now? He's like, I don't know. I wasn't supposed to be here. Now I'm here. And like, okay, cool.
[01:13:03] Speaker B: No, it's. So much respect. Yeah, that's perfect. That's a perfect Alex story. And like, yeah, like, yeah, let him eat ice cream. No, don't let anyone else eat ice cream. Like, absolutely not. But he should definitely eat ice cream on your podcast.
[01:13:13] Speaker A: He. He's earned. I mean, Brian. Brian Michael Bendis wanted to eat ice cream too. I would have let him eat ice cream.
[01:13:17] Speaker B: Yeah, don't let Brian eat ice cream. Don't let Brian eat ice cream.
[01:13:22] Speaker A: I mean, so we're taking everyone down with us as a, like a mixture of spy, thriller, I mean, sci fi. There's mystery, there's revenge, intrigue, action, family issue. Like, so if you were to call a comic book store and be like, hey, buy my comic and put it on the shelf. I want you to buy 700 copies of it for your shelf, even though you don't have an exclusive, as I like to do.
[01:13:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:13:41] Speaker A: I mean, is that. Is that how you're explaining it to people? I mean, I mean, it seems. It's not that hard to understand. But I also feel like it's a somewhat difficult pitch to sell someone on.
[01:13:51] Speaker B: It's funny because I'm always coming up with these things that I think are very simple. Yeah, but they're very hard to do.
Like, I'm not one of those guys where like, the plot is so confusing that you need a diagram. Like, I just don't do that. That I'm not Grant Morrison. I'm not. I'm not John Hickman.
[01:14:11] Speaker A: Jonathan Hickman. Glad you said it.
[01:14:13] Speaker B: Look, I love Grant Morrison. I love John Hickman. They're. They're both amazing. They're. They're two of my favorites. But like, my brain doesn't work like that. I can't do that. Like, I would just get confused and wander off and I, you know, so it always feels like my books are easy. And then when I go to do it, I'm like, well, a lot of these, like, especially when you're talking to retailers, like they don't have a ton of time. They don't have, have. They want to be like, hey, a guy who comes in my shop who likes what? What can I tell the person who likes this book? Like, what. What do I tell them? It's like. And you know, I want to be able to be like, it's like, you know, the Lion King meets, you know, whatever. You know, the Lion King meets Texas Chainsaw Massacre, whatever it is.
[01:14:55] Speaker A: I am 100% on this one.
[01:14:57] Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's a great book and I will eventually write that, but I never have those for my books. And I feel really dumb afterwards that I don't have those. And I'm like, am I losing my mind that is there an obvious thing? And I don't have that. And like the obvious ones that I go to are like anti sellers where I'm like, well, it's sort of a mix between like the 1970s, you know, film paper Moon and like, you know, it's got elements and I just say a bunch of stuff where it's just like no one at comic shops going to buy that. Everyone hates what you just said has no idea what it is. So, so what we say, what I say when I tell people buy 700 copies is I'm like, you know, it's set in a sort of James Bond ish universe. Like a 70s James Bond type over the top. It's sexy super spies and sadistic supervillains going to war. But our book is about Anneliese, the 13 year old daughter of the world's greatest Mad scientist. And she lives alone on this island with her dad and his army of helping robots. And when her life, her, her peaceful and strange life on the island is disrupted, she's forced to go on the run with her robot bodyguard and sort of figure out who she wants to be. Whether she wants to go on, you know, a journey of revenge and follow in her father's footsteps, or she wants to go and live this normal person life that she's never been offered because her dad was a mad scientist in hiding. And so that's what it is. It's a buddy comedy journey, Dark buddy comedy journey about a girl and a robot figuring out who they are in life, you know, And I point to things and I'm like, it's like a mix. It's not that I don't have obvious influences. There are very obvious influences in this. It's just that like, there's too many of them. I throw too many things into the mix. So it's not. I'm never making scrambled eggs, I'm always making a gumba. And so it's like, yeah, you know, there's some James Bond in it. There's some, you know, Leon the Professional in there.
There's some saga in there. There's some deadly class in there. There's a ton of stuff that that's all just thrown together. But it's, you know, it's a very dark comedy about dark comedic coming of age story about a girl who's a villain's daughter.
[01:17:16] Speaker A: That's well said. I also think that some of those description things that people always can judge you on, like, it's nothing like that. What are you. And also like, I've also personally only had like maybe two or three where I'm like, exactly. And like, you know, it's one of those things that comes different perspectives on who's reading it versus the writer and who's into what or whatever. But like, you know, all Dogs Go to Heaven Meets the Silence the Lambs for. For Stray Dogs was like one of the ultimate ones where I'm like, yeah, that makes sense to me. But then there's other ones where I'm in like, I don't know, see where you're getting this, this relationship.
[01:17:45] Speaker B: It's. Yeah. 100. And like, you know, I remember I told people I told someone once that they should read the Meredith McLaren and Kelly Thompson's Black Cloak from Image. And I was like, it's great. And they're like, what's it like? And I was like, it's Kind of like saga meets Law and Order.
And they were like, huh, that's really weird. And I was like, well, it's a police procedural, but it's like, in a sort of sci fi fantasy world. And the person read it and was like, I really liked it. It's nothing like saga. And I was like, Like, I don't know. I think it's like saga. There's all these, like, fantasy sci fi class structure stuff and royal family and all these things. I was like, I think there's a saga element. And they were like, there's not like a. And they started picking out specific things. They were like, there's no. There's no like, at. There's no guy with a robot head. And I was like, it's not saga. It's, like saga. I was like, I don't know. I was like, the, like, is tripping you up. It's a.
Yeah. It's not literally saga. Yeah. It's not a spin off of saga. I'm sorry. That was confusing. So, yeah, I always. I don't. I hate those comps, but I also see how easy they are and how good they are and.
[01:18:52] Speaker A: Yes.
[01:18:54] Speaker B: And I'm bad at them. So it's. It's a mess.
[01:18:56] Speaker A: And sometimes it can be hard to relate to another comp book too, because, again, it's sometimes nice to be outside of that. So, like, relating it to movies or things like that, other novels or something like that might actually make a little more sense.
[01:19:06] Speaker B: But I've had, like, 10 people be like Venture brothers so far. And I'm like, well, I do like the Venture brothers. And they're like, yeah, that's obviously an influence. And I was like, you know, the brain is a mysterious thing, and it works in weird ways. So, like, yeah, it probably is because I do like the Venture brothers. But at the end of the day, if I had to say anything about it, I'd be like, me and the Venture Brothers, creators like the same stuff and are, like, drawing from the same influences. Like, they love 70s bond and they love Johnny Quest, and they love, you know, weird punk rock references and stuff like that. And I was like, I do too. So, like, we just. We. We took all the same recipes. So, like, yeah, our. Our meals are gonna seem similar, but, like, I didn't eat their meal and be like, yeah, I'm gonna take that. Like, I'm just the same stuff. But at the same time, like, I did watch all Adventure Brothers. I do really like it. So, like, probably on some level, it is influence. For me, for sure.
[01:20:00] Speaker A: It's a. It's a beautiful comic book too. I mean, we talked about Stefan. Stefano. Stefani. Stefano. I keep on doing that Landini. So I always get the I and the O mixed up. But yeah, Stefano. And we talked about that. I mean, you're a fantastic writer in my opinion. And it's not like your writing needs the artwork to enhance the comic book. But you've been lucky. Not lucky, but I'd say lucky partnered up with some incredible artists that are going to help you sell your book in the sense that more readers are going to put it in front of their eyes. This is not only well written, but visually attractive. And so this partnership between you and Stefano is honestly perfect in this book.
[01:20:33] Speaker B: Yeah, I would disagree with a few things there. I don't know that I'm an excellent writer. Writer. I definitely need great artists to make the book good.
[01:20:44] Speaker A: I mean, you do a self described world's okayest comic book writers.
[01:20:47] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm solid. Look, I'm, you know, I'm a B minus. Like, you're.
[01:20:54] Speaker A: You're.
[01:20:54] Speaker B: Gonna, you're gonna get some enjoyment out of it. You're not gonna put it on your fridge without great art. But like, Stefano makes the book an A because he's an A plus artist. So, like, I'm bringing him down a little. My level. And we're getting a solid A out of it. You know, we're gonna get on the fridge and, and it's gonna be nice. But the. Yeah, I think, I think Stefano is just a guy who.
It's funny because I. When I worked on the Punisher with him, I was like, oh, he does action really well and he frames a shot really well. Like, his storytelling is very, is very readable, which is always for me. I'm like the first rule, like. And there's comics I love that are not inherently readable, that are difficult to read. I love, you know, a Chris Ware or a JH Williams where it's like you're. You're following a maze through a page or you're like turning a book over. I like all those things, but that's not how I write. I want to. I want the immersion of you to always be able to get lost and forget you're reading a comic. And Stefano is a great storyteller. So that for me was like the number one thing. What I found in doing this book and doing more and more with him is that he's also great at character acting and emotion. And he's great at mood and Setting things and making them ominous. And he's a great storyteller, and he's great with action, and it just opens up what we can do in the book. So every issue is better than the previous issue because I'm like, well, let's push it further. Let's make the action crazier. And then he nails it, and I'm like, let's make this emotional beat hit harder. Let's really play with the characters and how they feel. Let's make this creepy. Let's make this beautiful. And he rises the occasion no matter what I give him. So I'm really lucky. And. And the book is an infinitely better book with Stefano than it. I mean, it wouldn't exist without him. But even if it wasn't him, it's an infinitely better book than, I think, with almost anyone else I could think.
[01:22:48] Speaker A: You mentioned the whole, like, you guys have different ideas, and you're writing and drawing two different books technically, and it's becoming into one thing, one story. But it definitely feels cohesive in that sense that your writing and his artwork work so well together in that sense, too. And the book has the. A Silver Age story vibe to it, but the artwork is modern, and I like that, too, about it. It's like. It has that, like. It feels like I'm reading a Silver Age book. But in the same sense, the artwork isn't a Silver Age artwork.
[01:23:13] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, obviously, like, you know, we're pulling on a bunch of genres that are not super prevalent in today's market. And when you're talking about a spy book, I mean, they're obviously really good, modern spy books. I love Velvet. I love Queen and Country. I. I love Casanova. You know, like, I. I love. Love Kingsman, Secret Service, whatever.
But the, you know, a big thing for me was, like, going back and looking at, like, Sterenko, Nick Fury stuff and stuff like that, and I feel like there's just a generation of people who are doing some of the stuff we're doing that are. It's just not in vogue right now. And so we do talk about that and go back to that and sort of look to a sort of. Yeah, like a Silver Age kind of feel and. And. And just a. A pulpiness to it that. That we don't do as much anymore in comics, but with a modern aesthetic and a modern dressing.
[01:24:06] Speaker A: Yeah. You're not trying to, like, sell it as a. As a Silver Age or pulpy comic book that's not, like, had this feel, like, look inside, like, oh, we're trying to make this look like an old comic book. No, no, it's. It's still a modern comic.
[01:24:16] Speaker B: But, yeah, that's just another thing we threw into the pot of being like, this is a big influence for us. We love, you know, the old SHIELD Comics. I love, you know, and, like, you.
[01:24:26] Speaker A: Can'T see it, but right here on the wall is a Nick Fury, agent of Shields Duranko print signed by Jim. It's mentioned that right out of camera view for you, but yeah, I could see that. I could see that comparison in that sense, too, on that. And it's a wonderful book. Like I said, it's a benefit to read and talk and discuss. A lot of times. I do most of my discussions with comic book creators pre release, you know, of the first issue and so on and so forth. But I think some of the best discussions are non spoiler not spoiler free trade releases. Because it's like, okay, you actually get a full, like, story arc on it. So, like, I'm super by the end to finish the comic book, I'm like, I want to know more like, what the hell's going on? What's next? Like, all that stuff. And I'm like, oh, wait, this is probably. It's a periodical, so, like, it comes out once a month. I'm gonna have to wait. This is normal for me to stop. Just calm. Calm down. You'll get there. But, yeah, I'm excited to see where it goes. And that's. And that's what's, you know, that's a good thing at the end of a comic book, in my opinion. You didn't leave us hanging to the point where, like, what the. But, like, to the point where I want to know what's. What's next? And that's a good thing, in my opinion.
[01:25:28] Speaker B: I'm a big.
I'm a big believer. I think for me, two huge influences for me are Brian K. Vaughn and Robert Kirkman in the way that they end a comic. They are the best at ending a comic where you just go, damn it, I want to know what's next. Like, everything. Like, I always tell writers, like aspiring writers, I'm like Walking Dead in the trade. It's hard to do because there aren't clear issue breaks always.
But I'm like, pick up 40 issues of Walking Dead and singles and he 40 out of 40 times. It's gonna end in a place where you're just like, okay, I have to keep going. And that is. And Brian Cable and does it in saga masterfully and why the Last man and Ex Machin and everything he does. It's just a masterclass in that. And so, yeah, we're trying to have a book that in single issues leaves you wanting more. It's not just. We don't end with a, you know, there's a lot of books, I think, where the issue one is like, well, here's what the premise is and here's, here's what it is. Here's, you know, the last page is the movie poster and you're like, okay, this is what you're getting. Do you want to come in? And I don't like that. I like to have more questions and more mystery and more intrigue down the road and leave people wondering and excited and stuff. And so, yeah, it's nice of you to say that because we spent a lot of time sort of moving around where in the story we were going to end.
And that's why the issue is almost 40 pages too.
[01:26:58] Speaker A: It's a double sized issue too. So you had that, not freedom, but the, the ability to set ourselves up with some characters, give us a story and then, and then also give us a little bit extra to know what's going on, there's something going to happen. But then also, like, you need to read issue two to really find out what's going to happen. We didn't give you everything. You have to read the future to get the whole story.
[01:27:17] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, every issue we're introducing new characters and new settings and a new world and sort of new status quo and it sort of expands out exponentially as it goes. So it's, it's, it's a fun one because every sort of, every issue we, we make, we're sort of like more excited about new ideas than we were in the previous. It's not just getting from point A to point B. There's a, there's a whole big journey that gets more fun the more we do it. And hopefully the readers stick with us and, and have fun on that too.
[01:27:46] Speaker A: And this one compares a difference between, you know, you're going 30, 31 issues with what's the furthest place from here. This is a six issue miniseries. That's the plan.
[01:27:53] Speaker B: It is six issues because, yeah, that's the story we wanted to tell. With six issues, we have two more stories we would be willing to tell.
I don't love, you know, we all have Netflix. We all know what it's like to fall in love with something and then they're like, they're not making more of it. We want to make it clear, like, if you get six issues, that is what we set out to do. But if you get six issues and love it and enough people love it, there's going to be another one. There'll be two. There'll be two more, hopefully. So I don't know. We don't have sales numbers, so I don't know. You know, we're not going to do this. I mean, I was going to say we're not going to do this if we lose money. I'm stupid. So we probably still would do it if we lost money. We're not going to do it if we lose a ton of money.
[01:28:36] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
[01:28:37] Speaker B: If. If only four people are read issue six of the book, there will not be another issue.
But you know, if we have a, if we have a passionate readership that, that can mitigate some of the expenses of making a book.
I don't need to get paid to make it. I write DC versus Vampires. I do other stuff, so whatever. But Stefano and Jason and Haas and all those guys need to eat.
They're weird. They like to eat and pay their.
[01:29:04] Speaker A: Bills at the same time. It's insanity. But yeah, I mean, it's also better. Instead of saying, I'm going to do 18 issues and end it after 12 or ended after 6. It sounds like you got. You didn't get to do what you wanted to do, but this is now like, okay, we're gonna do six.
[01:29:16] Speaker B: The book I pitched was six to Stefano. I said, let's just do a six issue thing. And it's just that we fell in love with the world and the characters. So that he said to me, like, could we do more? And I spent a long time being like, yes, if the six goes. And so we have a thing that's. There's an organic. You know, I like to say that we have a new hope, that we have a satisfying movie, that if no one went to see it, you have a great movie. But also we know what Empire in return turn will be if people want them. And if not, no one is ever mad when they just see A New Hope and are like, so what you're.
[01:29:50] Speaker A: Trying to say is that the second volume is gonna be better than the first volume, is what you're trying to say.
[01:29:54] Speaker B: Wow. Wow. That's loaded. Yeah. And then the third volume, better than the second one. The third volume is gonna have teddy bears in it that eat people. Yeah, that's all I'm gonna say.
[01:30:04] Speaker A: I honestly wanna know where Jar Jar Binks shows Up in this. In this storyline we're taking.
[01:30:09] Speaker B: We're gonna have a Jar Jar character for sure.
[01:30:11] Speaker A: At the end, the robot takes his head off and it's just Jar Jar Binks in a suit just kicking ass and punch.
[01:30:16] Speaker B: The reason that's not the end of the first issue is because the legal paperwork of Jar Jar from. From Lucasfilm and from Disney, they wanted more money. So we're negotiating for Jar Jar. But we'll get him. We'll get him. He's gonna be there.
[01:30:30] Speaker A: It's fantastic. I can't wait for other people to read. That's one of those downsides to reading things ahead of time is now I want to talk to people about it. The only person I can talk to is like, my LCS owner or you or whoever. I'm just like, what do you think about the book? So on and so forth. So I'm excited for people to read it. I do think we. We laugh about the FOC thing. We talk about how it sucks that there actually is this thing. But, like, this episode drops before foc. So if you do listen to this episode and you really do want it, it does help a lot for multiple facets. As we discussed on this episode, that it helps LCS owners, it helps image, it helps you, it helps the creators, helps everybody. So just like, tell the LCS owner that you want it. If you don't, hopefully they have them on the shelf, and if they don't, if you walk in on March 26th and they still don't have on the shelf, don't just leave. Talk to the owner, because there's a possibility that they're either like late or, or. Or they could order more or there's a second printing or whatever. So like, just. Just be aware that you should. You know, I know it's pretty introverted industry we live in right now where people like walk in, don't want to talk to anybody and just be like, yeah, they don't have my comic. I leave. But communicating it with the owner or the person who's working there. Absolutely.
[01:31:31] Speaker B: I think a simple rule is just every day, ask someone, a comic shop or not, if they have issue one of. We're taking a rundown with this every day until the book comes out March 26th. So let's say mid June, just do that every day. Be like, do you have this?
[01:31:45] Speaker A: That's how walk into the local pharmacy. Be like, do you have this comic? Be like, we haven't had spinner racks here since I don't even know how Long. I don't know what you're talking about.
[01:31:52] Speaker B: Look, ask the produce manager at your supermarket if he has that.
Be confusing, be weird. It's okay. It's 25.
[01:32:01] Speaker A: And don't be surprised when they're like, yeah, sure, I got a copy of back. Like, I'll just go get it. Hold on one second. Let me get this. I used it to sweep up the watermelon juices, but. So it's a little wet, but you can still read it.
[01:32:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:32:10] Speaker A: I mean, it's not a collectible. It's a periodical.
[01:32:14] Speaker B: It's a story. And it's. And it's practical. It can help you clean your house.
[01:32:18] Speaker A: Exactly.
[01:32:18] Speaker B: We're using extra absorbent paper so you can use it for spills. Don't, don't. Don't be weird about it. Just ask everybody.
Buy 10 copies of the book. Use them for various things. Things like, you know, do you have. Are you house training a pet?
[01:32:32] Speaker A: Right, there you go for that.
[01:32:33] Speaker B: There you go.
[01:32:34] Speaker A: They.
In the meantime, I rec. Highly recommend picking up what's the furthest place from here in trade paperback because those are available as well. I highly recommend that. Four kids walking to the bank. Is that still going to make it onto a screen somewhere or is that. I mean, I don't know if you have any more information about that or.
[01:32:50] Speaker B: I have all the information about that.
[01:32:52] Speaker A: We can't say anything about it.
[01:32:53] Speaker B: I can say things. We. We finished filming two weeks ago. Oh, wow, look at that. So, yeah, it'll be exciting. It'll be on screens at a time that I'm NDA from talking about. There you go. Yeah, we went out, me and Tyler flew out to.
They filmed in Ireland, so we flew out to Dublin right before Christmas for a week and went to the set and hung out with everybody and gave everyone high fives and, and all that. And yeah, we just finished filming, so a seven, eight week shoot. Eight weeks of shooting.
[01:33:27] Speaker A: That's crazy. I mean, it's like I said, you get to write Joker, you get to write Batman, you get to write, you know, X Men, all this other stuff. Your book, your comic gets adapted into a feature film. And in. Liam Neeson is. Yeah, it must be a pretty crazy.
[01:33:43] Speaker B: He plays Qui Gon in the movie. We, they were, they said, you know, I said, can I buy Jar? Jar? And they were like, you can buy Jar. He's dead. And I was like, all right, I'll take him. And so we put him in four kids. No, he's. Yeah, no, it's great. It's I'm. I'm obviously a Star wars nerd, but also an actinger. And the whole cast is kind of amazing.
You know, the. They are all in. You know, they're all. The titular kids are all, like, superstars in the making. They're all people who are in, you know, the new Alien movie and Shazam And. And, you know, Gossip Girl. And I was there. I was there, and I was, like, on set, and I was like. And I knew one of the actors. I was like, oh, he's in a bunch of stuff I've seen. And then I was like, but he's. It's something else. And then I was like, oh, and he's in a movie called after sun, which is like, my favorite movie the last 10 years. And I was like, oh, fuck, he's an aftersun. And I was just like, man, I don't want to go geek out about him being a small role in this movie in this, like, weird indie movie about depression and parenthood. But I was like, I kind of am going to geek out about it a little bit because it is the best movie I've seen in a decade.
So, yeah, no, it's a great cast. And Frankie Shaw, our director, is just directing the hell out of it, and she's amazing, so we're really lucky and hopefully people will check it out. And the book is still available.
[01:35:09] Speaker A: You can grab it, sort of, those great things. And I just. I think I did a countdown list a couple of weeks ago, a month ago maybe, of, like, movies that you may not have known were based on comics. And I'm like, this. I could see this being one of those ones in the future down. Down the road where someone was like, wait, this was a comic at one point. Be like, yeah, that's where it started.
[01:35:27] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, there's. There. The movie's interesting because there's a lot of. I mean, me and Tyler are producers on it, so we've been there from Go. And every, you know, every step of the sort of creative process and. And watched it and stuff. And we sort of encourage them to just be like, look, the book is a book. A movie's a movie. Like, do what you need to do. And so it's always fascinating, like, what they.
The stuff that's super faithful and then the stuff where they do something different, because the book is written very much to be a comic, and it takes advantage of the medium and it's like, well, you could do a crappy translation of that, but it wouldn't work. Like, embrace Being a movie. And they, they just really did in a great way. Matt Robinson, our screenwriter, and Frankie Shaw, our director. Like, and so it's, it's. It feels different, but the same. It's a really cool, weird feeling. I think people who like the book will really dig it, and I think people who didn't like the book have a strong chance to really dig it because it's really good.
So, yeah, I hope people check out the movie.
[01:36:20] Speaker A: That's awesome. That's so cool. So, yeah, I mean, Matthew Robinson. Rob said Robinson. Yes. I don't know why. I have a friend named Matt Robinson. I almost name dropped him Matthew Rosenberg here.
Such a great. Like I said, your history of comics is so amazing. I loved your run. I found out about you with uncanny X Men in 2000 2018. And so, you know, again, I'm one of the few that probably took your X Men stuff and was like, oh, look, independent stuff you have, you know that, you know, I'm one of those weirdos that, that do that. But no, I'm hoping people get out there and read your books that, you know, if you just Google Matthew Rosenberg on Midtown Comics even, and it lists all the comics that they may have available or whatever.
[01:36:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:36:58] Speaker A: Or you'll go to your local comic book shop and get those. But yeah, what's the first place I'm here is a current. I think that's four volumes. So if you're looking. Looking to catch up on trades, that's a. That's a perfect spot right there to start. But yeah, and you've got all kinds of stuff you're doing too. You did Zombie Task Force Z and all kind of stuff. So if you're like a D.C. fan or a Marvel fan, there's probably something that you've touched.
[01:37:17] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, I've written a lot of those guys. Yeah, I've been very lucky.
[01:37:21] Speaker A: Did you do. You did some ec? Did you do stuff on the EC stuff?
[01:37:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I just did two. Two shorts for EC just came out. I literally got.
Oh, I was looking around my computer is. I write at a low angle and so when I tape a podcast, I put stuff under my computer to raise it. And the box of comps of the EC book is the thing. I was like, I have the comps around somewhere. Yeah, I was like, it's literally this.
[01:37:45] Speaker A: Is this right in front of you? Yeah, it's.
[01:37:47] Speaker B: Yeah, I just did those and that was really fun. And got to work with some. Some artists I really love. So that was cool.
[01:37:52] Speaker A: Those are. Those are also Phenomenal. All of them have been great.
[01:37:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:37:55] Speaker A: And wonderful. I love that, that return. Return of that, you know, form and the anthology part of it and all that stuff too. But yeah, what's the first place I'm here. Available in trade right now. Also available on single issues moving Forward until issue 30, 31 somewhere around there, but we're taking everyone down with us. Is coming out March 26th at your local comic book shop. Tell your LCS that you want it. And yeah, I appreciate you coming on and chatting and so on and so forth. You can also listen to your, you know, your podcast if I want to put that out there, too. Ideas Don't Believe is available as well. So check that out. It's a, it's a, it's a crazy time you do over there. It sounds fun.
[01:38:29] Speaker B: It's all right, I guess.
[01:38:31] Speaker A: I'll tell you right now. If you want to hear someone talk about it for about 20 minutes, listen to the off battle episode with Matthew Rosenberg.
Talked about it for a while, which is fascinating for me and I'm sure it was fascinating for some people. But yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a fun time. But yeah, I appreciate you taking the time out and discussing comics and so much more. We'll have you back at some time in the future. Sound good, man?
[01:38:49] Speaker B: Matthew, yeah, this is great. Thanks so much.
[01:38:51] Speaker A: Appreciate it.
