[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to the Capes and Tights podcast right here on Capesandtights.com, i'm your host, Justin Soderbergh. This episode is once again brought to you by our friends over at Galactic Comics and collectibles@g Galactic comicsandcollectibles.com as well as 547 Hammond street in Bangor, Maine. And fittingly enough, Paul Eaton, owner proprietor of this local comic book shop, is on this episode to chat the 2003 daredevil movie starring Ben Affleck and Jennifer Gardner. But before we listen to this episode, follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, bluesky threads of those places, as well as rate review, subscribe over on Apple, Spotify or wherever you find your podcasts on the Internet. We're also on YouTube and you can find reviews, opinions, posts and so much more
[email protected] but this is an episode talking the 2003 Daredevil movie with owner of Galactic Comics and Collectibles, Paul Eaton. Enjoy everyone.
Welcome, welcome back to the podcast. Paul. Eating Galacticos. Paul. It is snowing out. Or did snow, I should say.
[00:01:05] Speaker B: It's not snowing anymore.
[00:01:06] Speaker A: It's sunny out right now, but it's still freaking cold.
[00:01:09] Speaker B: It's very cold. It's weird and very white.
[00:01:14] Speaker A: Usually in New England it's like it feels like when it snows, the next day is usually like you can snow shovel like in T shirt because warm enough. Yeah, no, it's cold right now too.
[00:01:23] Speaker B: But it's with the opposite direction. What is it like? I think it's like one. Is the.
[00:01:27] Speaker A: Feels like one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it feels like one.
Which is kind of funny because I'm also laughing. Normally the weather is bad when I talk to someone who's not from Maine. Like I'll talk to someone from California and be like, oh, really? Yeah, it snowed 6, 7 inches last night. Oh, like, oh, cool. No, now I'm like, we live across town. So like we're both had the same.
[00:01:46] Speaker B: Is it snowing?
[00:01:47] Speaker A: Yeah, both shoveled. We both did all this stuff. It's fine. And the other thing I wanted to get off the top here, Paul, is it's not going to come out on Garrett's birthday. But it's Garrett's birthday.
[00:01:58] Speaker B: Today is Garrett's birthday. Garrett recording day is the birthday of the big G. That works here?
[00:02:04] Speaker A: Yeah, it works here. You use air quotes well, yeah, Works a strong word he's employed there.
[00:02:09] Speaker B: Yeah, there you go. That's probably better. So happy birthday, Garrett. For anyone that Listens to this. Go over and give him a belated happy birthday. If you see him here or at the Hannaford, he works at the other.
[00:02:21] Speaker A: Job or just around town or at Bobby's.
[00:02:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
Our little Digimon loving buddy. Garrett.
[00:02:30] Speaker A: Did you get Scotty Young's email?
[00:02:33] Speaker B: I don't. I must just came through.
[00:02:35] Speaker A: Whatever. Go. Go through and look at it because he has Gertrude I Hate Fairyland sneakers in this picture.
I don't know. When you get a chance, like, they are phenomenal custom Gert sneakers. You also look those up. Anybody?
[00:02:55] Speaker B: Because all I've got are the books. There's the hardcovers. Oh, there they are. Oh, dude.
[00:03:03] Speaker A: I don't know what they are. They're just dope as hell, though, where.
[00:03:06] Speaker B: There would be, like, the shoe logo just as.
[00:03:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:08] Speaker B: Scotty Young saying, that is awesome. Yeah, that's phenomenal.
[00:03:12] Speaker A: I wish you could sell those. I'd buy those now. We're not here to talk about that.
[00:03:17] Speaker B: All my copies of I Hate Fairyland in the third hardcover. The hardcover. Yeah.
[00:03:20] Speaker A: Yeah. We're here. Talk.
Marvel's greatest achievement in the history of mankind, of film and cinema.
Daredevil. No, Daredevil. Paul. So Daredevil came out around the same time. It was in that time of, like, X Men X2.
The first. Yeah, the first Hulk movie. The. The.
Not the first Hulk. Well, I guess the other ones are TV shows. So it was the first Hulk movie, right?
[00:03:49] Speaker B: Yeah, it was the first Hulk movie. Which was. Which was worse than this, considering.
[00:03:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, far worse than this. I'll tell you that right now. Love arguments. Is it. Who's it. Who's that book club that thinks that this is actually pretty good?
[00:04:00] Speaker B: Probably Scott.
[00:04:01] Speaker A: I don't think it's Scott, but whatever. Someone in our book club actually fights it.
[00:04:06] Speaker B: Liked it.
[00:04:07] Speaker A: I don't know.
[00:04:08] Speaker B: And all the stuff I hated about that movie were all the things they cited as good parts of it.
[00:04:12] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:04:12] Speaker B: Didn't make any sense to me.
[00:04:14] Speaker A: It was 2003, so that was like early Marvel trying to, like, actually recoup and make movies.
[00:04:22] Speaker B: Like when this came out, what, February of, oh, three.
[00:04:24] Speaker A: Yeah. Valentine's Day.
[00:04:26] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. So we went and saw this as a date before we got married. We were married, you know, three.
So my wife and I are talking.
[00:04:34] Speaker A: She still wanted to marry you.
[00:04:35] Speaker B: Yeah, I know. Shock. Well, she. She fell asleep in the theaters during this.
Do any perspective.
Wow. All right, so I can tell you, in 2003, this was one of the best Marvel movies I'd ever seen.
[00:04:51] Speaker A: Yes. Because okay, so before this competition was pretty light. Let's talk about this. Okay, so Marvel, these are live action feature films, and these are not the ones that are made for TV like we talked about and so on. So these are actually like theater released movies. You'd Howard the duck in 1986. Okay. Then a 12 year gap and became Blade from New Line Cinema. And then it was.
[00:05:12] Speaker B: You don't know that Blade is Marvel. You wouldn't know that.
[00:05:15] Speaker A: No, no. X Men came out in 2000. So X men was the original, the real first Marvel Comics movie that made it to the theaters. It was like a big Marvel Comics thing that was attached to comic books. It was related.
[00:05:28] Speaker B: It was a lot of problems with the X Men when it came out because I was such a, like, purist X Men fan. And then.
[00:05:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:33] Speaker B: A 92x Men fan. And all the stuff that was different in that movie I had so many issues with. I just couldn't handle the joke about, what, you want us to wear yellow spandex? And I was like, yes, I do.
[00:05:43] Speaker A: Yes. And they finally did it in Daredevil. Deadpool versus Wolverine.
[00:05:47] Speaker B: Thank you, Deadpool, Wolverine, for giving my yellow spandex that I wanted.
[00:05:52] Speaker A: I guess they did it before that and they did it in Multiverse of Madness. They had Professor X in the.
[00:05:58] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:05:59] Speaker A: Wheelchair, which is kind of not that, but it was the same.
[00:06:01] Speaker B: It still looked great on screen. Like, it looked like what he would look like in the cartoon or in the comics.
[00:06:09] Speaker A: Yes. And see Spider Man.
[00:06:11] Speaker B: I had some problems with X Men, so when I saw Daredevil, I was like, this movie is gonna be.
[00:06:16] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:17] Speaker B: Like. And I wasn't the biggest Daredevil fan. So if you're a bigger Daredevil fan, you may have some problems with like, his. His brain of justice in this. Yeah, it's not really comic accurate.
[00:06:26] Speaker A: No.
[00:06:26] Speaker B: Like, Daredevil doesn't kill people in this. He is killing dudes left and right. And if he's not killing him, he's starting letting them die.
[00:06:32] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:06:33] Speaker B: You know, like, this is more like.
[00:06:34] Speaker A: They took Daredevil and mixed him with the Punisher in a way, a weird way. Like, they made him, but they didn't Punisher in this, you know, the Hell's Kitchen characters, the street level characters that are in this area of Daredevil's world is Punisher, but they're like, we didn't show Punisher. Let's make just Daredevil be Punisher as well.
[00:06:52] Speaker B: Yeah. Much more so. Like, he's. He's out for justice. But his justice is. Is definitely killing these dudes. Like, it's. It's pretty brutal. Yeah.
I still stand by the fact that Ben Affleck was a good daredevil.
[00:07:08] Speaker A: I think so too. I told you off the top before we started recording that I actually didn't think this was as bad as people make it out to me. And I don't know. I don't know why Paul. Like, not that. Not that I understand why it's bad, but I'm saying in a scale, if you went through. Is this. Is this time where X Men, Blade 2, Spider Man, Daredevil, X2, Hulk, the Punisher, all that came out within the, like a two year span.
[00:07:30] Speaker B: Right.
[00:07:30] Speaker A: Of this stuff.
This couldn't have been like. I don't know. I just feel like, is this the DC of current. Where people are current at the James Gunn dc, but the previous iteration of DC stuff where it's like they're making films, people are going to see them because they want to see their, their comic book characters on screen, but they're not great. But all of us are like, hey, it's what we're going to get kind of thing. And I don't know, I just don't understand why, like, it's not amazing. This is not iron man from 2008.
[00:07:58] Speaker B: I have to say, I like this movie less now than I did when I saw it.
[00:08:03] Speaker A: Okay, well, which makes sense because at the time you saw it was what you had options. It was your option.
[00:08:07] Speaker B: It was what we had. Yeah.
It did not age well. I feel like this. And it's funny because this looks just like Blade. This looks like if you. There was like a bunch of those, like vampire and werewolf movies and video game movies and all this stuff of that era. And it looks exactly like all the rest of them. Like the O2O3 movies. If somebody was like, oh, what was it like back then? Just put this on. There you go. Like, spot the soundtrack, which I love.
[00:08:32] Speaker A: The soundtrack, but soundtrack is so early 2000.
[00:08:35] Speaker B: It is, yeah. Every. Everything about this is the, like an epitome of it. It doesn't. It doesn't age well. It shows exactly what time it is. The CGI is sort of over the top and not really.
[00:08:47] Speaker A: Fight sequences were good, though.
[00:08:48] Speaker B: The fight sequences are good.
So, like you're. You're over the top villain stuff. Like why Bullseye had to have this weird, like, imprinted tattoo thing on his forehead.
[00:08:58] Speaker A: He's so bad. I'm sorry, I.
[00:09:00] Speaker B: That's my least favorite swinging around in all of his fights was just over the top.
[00:09:05] Speaker A: And, like, I want to cost him. Like, he just blatantly says, I want a costume. Like, you know, Daredevil has a costume. I want to cost it. No. Bullseye is the worst part of this movie.
[00:09:14] Speaker B: I disagree.
[00:09:15] Speaker A: Really?
[00:09:16] Speaker B: I disagree. Electro source.
[00:09:17] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.
[00:09:19] Speaker B: I say Electros are. Pardon me. So I personally think. I didn't like Jennifer Gardner as Electro when this came out. I felt like she was cast because she was big in Alias. She was sort of the action hero, like, female role at the time.
[00:09:33] Speaker A: And you see him. Her with Ben Affleck in real life. Like, if they were to, like, be a couple, you could see them in.
[00:09:40] Speaker B: The comics, she doesn't look like Electra.
[00:09:41] Speaker A: No.
[00:09:42] Speaker B: In the writing, she doesn't act like Electra.
[00:09:44] Speaker A: No.
[00:09:45] Speaker B: Like, you can't understand where the line is between she's a tough assassin or she needs to be cuddled. Like, there's.
[00:09:53] Speaker A: It's a damsel in distress versus Thomas.
[00:09:55] Speaker B: Which one are you? Yeah. Like, because Electra is badass. She is. She should be the one killing all these people. And daredevils are trying to stop her from it. Like, that's really. Would have been a better written storyline for this. Is have Daredevil more in the. Justice is justice and electric. You can't do this. In her seeking revenge against the kingpin for her father's death and her out there killing all these guys left and right would have been a much better accurately written movie. And then cast better for Elektra because Jennifer Garnish wasn't it. And I'm sorry, but the. The fight scene in the playground in the beginning when they first meet was super goofy, ridiculous. And then her little thing where she, like, has the kick extended and says her name and then she gives this weird knot. It is so goofy. Like, bad action of its time. Stuff like bad. Bad TV action like this, which shouldn't even been in the movie. The scene looked like something from, like, an ABC special. Yeah.
[00:10:53] Speaker A: I don't understand. I actually wrote it one of my notes as the fight in the park. I don't understand the fight in the playground park area. Like, it just doesn't make any sense to me. And immediately how quickly went to that, too. Yeah, like, how quickly that happened and how it got to that point.
[00:11:05] Speaker B: And, yeah, she's like, I don't care who you are, but who the hell? And she's like, all right, this blind guy, I'm gonna kick his ass.
[00:11:12] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't understand. Like, who You're a horrible person. Tell you right now, even if a person came up to me and smacked me in the face and they were blind, I'd have a tough time hitting that person back, dude. Let alone going to a martial arts fight and fight this person, and then.
[00:11:26] Speaker B: He'S jumping on the.
[00:11:28] Speaker A: Not to be sexist or anything, but, like, he's fighting a woman. So, like, the same side. Like, I don't. Like, just the whole battle just seems odd to me. Early in the movie. It was fairly early in the movie. It wasn't even that far.
[00:11:38] Speaker B: It was very early.
So I feel like the. The origin story was accurate and the origin story was. Was well done. It was entertaining. It was a little. It felt a little long.
But overall, it was, like, well enough done.
[00:11:52] Speaker A: This is gonna be a weird reference here. You. Because I want to. I want to talk on that. I want to. So that the origin story makes sense. Is that. It's that. Let's tell a quick synopsis of how Daredevil became blind. That's what it explains. Explains that and how he got his. His extra abilities. And I liked it. I like the whole idea. When he first woke up, he heard the dripping of. Of his ivy bag. And, like, all that stuff like, that was cool.
[00:12:16] Speaker B: He starts being able to see through walls, sort of. And.
[00:12:18] Speaker A: But so I come from. My bad dad is a pastor, right? And I come from a background of growing up in a church. And there's always this thought process that you always see Jesus as a baby in the manger, and then you all of a sudden see him 35, you know, I mean, so like, there's this gap between him, like, at 4 years old or 3 years old to, like, 35. And the same thing I felt like in this movie where it was like, yes, you understand how he got his abilities and his power, but it doesn't explain why he became Daredevil and why he fought for justice and where the costume came from and all that stuff. That, to me, was a frustrating part. Whereas that, like, all of a sudden.
[00:12:50] Speaker B: One'S a big question. Because that costume is elaborate.
[00:12:52] Speaker A: Yeah, it is, but I'm just saying.
[00:12:53] Speaker B: The weapons are elaborate.
[00:12:57] Speaker A: Who goes and gets blind? I know he has extra abilities, but I feel like most people in the world. And again, this is maybe what makes Bat Murdoch different than everybody else's, and that's why I became a lawyer, is most people in the world will use that for negative things. Like, I would use it to rob banks or to, you know.
[00:13:11] Speaker B: And that was, I guess, that's the side of his dad always trying to push him to be.
[00:13:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:14] Speaker B: Be better. And, like, you're gonna go to school and I feel like you could fill in the blanks with the exception of where did this costume come from?
[00:13:21] Speaker A: But I feel like that. Isn't that back in the day where they told origin stories, though? Like, I feel like it's an orange. It's like saying. I don't know. It's like showing Rogue, you know, like in the animated X Men animated show where she, like, she touches people. Or actually it's in the actual movie. Right. Where she touches.
They're on the bed kissing or whatever.
[00:13:41] Speaker B: Yeah. This movie, she kisses her.
[00:13:43] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay.
[00:13:44] Speaker B: Boyfriend there and then. Sucks.
[00:13:45] Speaker A: But all of a sudden it would be like that and seeing that. And then all of a sudden I know her. Fast forward like 10 years and have her just be part of the X Men and not explain how.
[00:13:52] Speaker B: Right.
[00:13:53] Speaker A: Got to the X Men. That's where I think this problem I have is, like, there could have been a little bit of a f. Something like, it shows.
[00:13:59] Speaker B: I also think we could have gotten a better layout of that. That it's not just like, here's the beginning of the movie with the origin. With. Now, like. I think more modern movies, they do a better job of that. Letting you kind of figure out the origin as you go and kind of dropping it here and there.
[00:14:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:15] Speaker B: Instead of this longer. Because that was probably, what, a 20 minute.
[00:14:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:19] Speaker B: So. Of getting this whole layout of him and who.
[00:14:22] Speaker A: Maybe that's why they skipped that middle part. Is because they did so long with the origin part that they didn't give the ability to the movie.
[00:14:27] Speaker B: Right. You don't want to write another half hour to him. A angsty teenager jumping around New York City like.
[00:14:33] Speaker A: But every adaptation of Spider Man. So the three adaptations we've had of Spider Man's first film, each one of them, he makes his own costume and shows how he makes his own car. You know, like, so there's that aspect of. Of finding out why he. All of a sudden, I know where it's like, okay, he got blind. He has all these abilities. Now he's a superhero. And I felt like there was a gap.
[00:14:50] Speaker B: He makes a giant leap from a hoodie, a poorly done hoodie, to this, like, immaculate costume.
[00:14:56] Speaker A: Spider man has always been a really good person behind a sewing machine. We don't know where that came from.
[00:15:01] Speaker B: But, like, obviously must be very talented. Murdoch spent a lot of time learning from it.
[00:15:05] Speaker A: Matt Murdock did a great job making his costume that was on, like, Temu.
[00:15:09] Speaker B: Ordering stuff to combine it and making something.
[00:15:11] Speaker A: Well, I don't understand it because, like, obviously we saw that in the Daredevil TV show, which is a far superior adaptation of Daredevil.
[00:15:17] Speaker B: Now, granted, the Daredevil TV show has, like, hours and hours to build.
[00:15:20] Speaker A: Correct. You're right. You're right. But I'm saying at least there's a. That storyline in there where he gets someone to make his suit for him. Yeah.
[00:15:26] Speaker B: He realizes he needs that. He needs to. But, like, you're able to intimidate those people, not just be a guy in a black.
[00:15:33] Speaker A: I would have been more. Okay. And less upset with them just showing almost too fast of a reason why he became Daredevil as the superhero. Then just the fact that it's just omitted altogether. And I understand where you're coming from on that. I understand that if you're watching a Daredevil movie and all, likely you would, you know a little bit of the story behind it. And so, like.
[00:15:49] Speaker B: Yeah, because the original comic Daredevil side was he was more of a, what, like a boxer, wrestler, athlete. And the Daredevil name came from him being, like, a Daredevil, like, always pushing the limits.
[00:16:06] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:06] Speaker B: So he's doing crazy handstands on rooftops and stuff like that. When he has that, once he gets that ability and he can now, like, have those extra senses to help him with all this.
[00:16:18] Speaker A: So it was a weird things. I felt like it was too fast.
[00:16:21] Speaker B: Yeah, it was.
[00:16:21] Speaker A: Obviously, Daredevil came from his dad's nickname of the Devil in this movie. Like, they call him the Devil. So, like, Daredevil has that. That connection to it.
[00:16:27] Speaker B: And then the Devil of Hell's Kitchen.
[00:16:30] Speaker A: And being the opposite of his dad really, like, trying to do good instead of bad, it's kind of like what he's doing. And obviously, you know.
[00:16:36] Speaker B: But always wanted his dad. Just didn't have the means to do so.
[00:16:41] Speaker A: But he's also a lawyer who kills people. This whole thing just seems weird.
[00:16:44] Speaker B: Yeah, that was interesting. However, one of the coolest lines in any Marvel comic or cartoon or movie movie is. Is him interviewing the guy on the stand and saying, I hope justice is found today before justice finds you. That is like. That's killer. That is great. That is all, like, Daredevil superhero. Hell, yeah. Ominous. Like, what a great. And that guy's like a sleaze ball and gets off on all charges. Yeah, yeah. Cassada. Yeah. That's lots of comic name references, all kinds of efforts.
[00:17:16] Speaker A: So there's There's Miller, Mac Bendis, there's Cassada. Kevin Smith plays Kirby.
[00:17:23] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:17:23] Speaker A: Plays a character named Kirby. Stan Lee is also makes a cameo in this. I don't know.
[00:17:29] Speaker B: He almost walked in traffic there.
[00:17:31] Speaker A: Yes. That's what it was. So there's a bunch of that stuff in here, which is really cool. I don't. Almost felt like it was almost too much. It was almost felt like, I want to make all these references in a Marvel movie. We don't know if we're ever going to be able to do it again. Let's just throw it all in here and see what happens.
[00:17:42] Speaker B: Yeah. And if you're not a comic book fan, you don't pick up on.
[00:17:44] Speaker A: Well, the Stan Lee cameo was really cool. And then this. The Kevin Smith cameo is actually really cool too, because Kevin Smith either goes on to. Or just previously or currently had written Daredevil.
[00:17:54] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't remember.
[00:17:55] Speaker A: I don't know if it was just because Kevin Smith's also an actor at the time. And so there was.
[00:17:58] Speaker B: Right in the timeline that he was doing the writing for Daredevil.
[00:18:01] Speaker A: Yeah. So that was kind of cool to see someone who actually wrote that. And then seeing the names Cassada and Bendis and all that stuff was. It was cool homage things, but, like, again, it almost felt over the top at some points. And also making Cassada to be a really shitty person.
[00:18:18] Speaker B: Right. Yeah.
[00:18:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:19] Speaker B: He's just like.
[00:18:19] Speaker A: I thought it was pretty funny. I mean, Cassada was like, running Marvel all the time, so, like.
[00:18:24] Speaker B: And presumably raped her. Yeah. He's like, horrible. Yeah.
And then he gets his own. Daredevil gets him. You know, but this. I don't know. The. The fight scenes are cool.
[00:18:37] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:18:37] Speaker B: Well done, boy. I don't know. I don't know about this movie, though. Like, in the grand scheme, watching it now, I guess all the things I kind of was able to write off in the past.
[00:18:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:48] Speaker B: Being like, hey, at least we get a Daredevil movie. Or a lot harder to write off now. Especially with having seen the new Daredevil series and stuff like, yeah, Netflix and everything else and the MCU's growth. It's. This stands out for being a lot worse, I think, than.
[00:19:03] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:04] Speaker B: It was at its time.
[00:19:05] Speaker A: The. The hardcover collection of Smith's run on Daredevil actually came out in April of 2003. So it was just before this, actually. So when you're filming this, they were actually probably currently writing Daredevil.
[00:19:18] Speaker B: Right.
[00:19:18] Speaker A: Which is kind of cool. Ben Urich, to me, was Hilarious. Because all I could think of was Matrix. When I'm watching this again, I'm just thinking to myself, like, this is the best guys from Matrix. It's like anytime Harry Potter was his name. The guy who plays Harry Potter.
Yeah. You're always like, oh shit, it's Harry Potter. It's just Harry Potter and these things. So I thought that was kind of funny. That's of Coolio.
So Julio the rapper was the dude that, that Murdoch was trying to get off his, his client Black. It was Coolio the rapper, which was obviously timely because I've obviously seen to.
[00:19:54] Speaker B: Find out, I've read about this, that there, there's actually an R rated version of this. It's a director's cut.
[00:19:59] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:19:59] Speaker B: That goes much deeper into the Coolio story.
[00:20:02] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:20:02] Speaker B: And that the comic fans, I guess, gave this movie much higher ratings if you have the R rated director storyline. Yes. Because I watched. I'd obviously never seen that.
So I just watched the theatrical version again. So like, that's pretty interesting. But it's funny to cut out. I must have a pretty decent sized cut to remove that whole plot line with him. And you just had like, how much did you spend on Coolio to be like, yeah, we're going to cut out basically all.
[00:20:28] Speaker A: Well, I wonder. Yeah, I wonder if those kind of things where it's like, hey, Coolio, we have this thing. He's like, I want to be in a movie, right. I want to be Novo watches stuff on Disney plus called Cars on the Road, which is the Cars movie, but like it's a TV show and they go on a road trip, him and Lightning McQueen, Queen and Mater. And one of the episodes is, is A, they like drive by a B movie being filmed and they're like, hey, you're Lightning McQueen, we should get you in the movie. And he's like, yeah, that'd be awesome. He's all excited for it. So all I could picture is some stars you see randomly in movies are like, cover my hotel, throw me a couple thousand bucks and I'll be in a movie. Just to be in a movie. So like, yeah, I just want to.
[00:21:04] Speaker B: Be in the movie.
[00:21:04] Speaker A: Coolio's not being cast for a bunch of things at the time. My guess is that like, if they.
[00:21:09] Speaker B: Came to us and said, hey, do you guys want to be in the next Marvel? Yeah, we're going to be in the Marvel.
[00:21:12] Speaker A: You know, I'd be like, cool. I, you know, I'll pay for my own hotel if you put me in the apartment. There's probably like, right. Legally, they have to pay you something. But I'm just saying, like, I'm guessing it wasn't millions of dollars to get Coolio into the movie. It was probably just, okay, we put you in a movie. It's a Marvel movie, and so on and so forth, which, I mean, at the time, Marvel movies weren't this thing. It wasn't like. I mean, it really was pretty successful, but this was successful in the theaters. Like, the first weekend was the number one movie.
[00:21:35] Speaker B: Yeah. For the second week, it held a drop, 55%. But it held. Yeah, I saw.
[00:21:42] Speaker A: It was second to.
So second biggest February release to Hannibal at the time. It fell the following week, 55%. Oh, it's Rene number one. Because old school only made 700,000 or 639,000.
[00:21:56] Speaker B: I hate to say this. We may have gone on Valentine's Day day to this movie.
[00:22:00] Speaker A: Hey, man.
[00:22:01] Speaker B: It's possible.
[00:22:02] Speaker A: It's a foreshadowing to the fact that you don't. A comic book store later on your.
[00:22:05] Speaker B: Life apparently looks big.
[00:22:08] Speaker A: Big, big thing for me. Which is also a funny thing, an ironic thing. A weird thing is the fact that Foggy Nelson was played by Jon Favreau. Jon Favreau, the one and only director of Iron man, who goes on to play Happy Hogan in the mcu, which is pretty funny. I. I don't know. I kind of liked him as Foggy.
[00:22:29] Speaker B: I think he was.
[00:22:30] Speaker A: He had that comedy that.
[00:22:31] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, the comedy side of it. And, like, the. The legit, like, being friends, but, like, trying to run a business together out of it. Matt's like, oh, we get paid in fish because this guy fishes and he's broke, and that's what you do. And he's like, yeah, but how about. You paid him money?
[00:22:44] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:22:44] Speaker B: Like, I don't care if it's a sleazy person, Matt. Like, that's what I went to law school for.
[00:22:48] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:22:49] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, I think it was great.
[00:22:50] Speaker A: I think it was fun. I think it was funny when he's, like, sitting there waiting for Matt to finish at the party, and he's just rubbing.
[00:22:56] Speaker B: Swapping the honey with the mustard after. Yes.
[00:23:00] Speaker A: But he's sitting there at the party and he's rubbing the tit of the gargoyle thing, and someone walks by, and he's like, what are you doing? And he looks at. He's like, oh, oops.
I don't know if you saw. I don't know if that did. I watched the director's cut, so that might have been I don't think that.
[00:23:12] Speaker B: Was in the director's cut. No, but now I have to go commit two more hours to this and watch the director's cut of it.
[00:23:18] Speaker A: And he's sitting there just rubbing like, he's just like, almost like he was like, just like holding onto a banister and he's just rubbing it. But they look down and it's literally like a gargoyle sitting there, kind of like lion thing. And it has these tits and he's just holding onto it and someone's walking up the stairs. You're like looking at him and he's just like white. And he looks down, he goes, oh, shit.
[00:23:35] Speaker B: Yeah, that was, that was not in the regular.
[00:23:37] Speaker A: Okay, so the director's cut is probably way, way better. And I honestly think it actually got a higher rating in general on the director cut like you mentioned.
[00:23:43] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what I saw. I saw the director's cut had a much better overall review than.
[00:23:48] Speaker A: But even in the scale of the movies that we've watched over, over these big random movies we've watched over the, you know, past couple years, you and I, Rotten Tomatoes score on this one is not, like I said, not horrendous. It's 43 critic rating. Okay. Which is obviously not good. But like in the scale of things we watch, 5%, 10% things, a 35% fans. And I think the fans one is probably again, this is the theatrical cut. I'm guessing it's more along the lines of things like you had already mentioned being fan. A fan of the comic books compared to watching the movie. And I got a 5.3 on IMDb, the bigger websites that rate these movies. And so that's not horrible. It made $179 million on a 78 million dollar budget.
[00:24:33] Speaker B: Yeah, it made money.
[00:24:35] Speaker A: You know, I mean it had the stars in it. It had like the weird thing is.
[00:24:39] Speaker B: A writer Frank Miller cover Daredevil shirt at Hot Topic because of this movie.
[00:24:44] Speaker A: So Daredevil. It also kind of makes sense to me. Like the comic book movies they made in this era, if you think about outside of like maybe Hulk, but are all street levels style thing. I mean, think about it. Because the X Men are still kind of street level in a sense because at the time.
[00:25:03] Speaker B: Much easier I think to do a street level story because you don't have to worry at that point if the, if the special effects weren't up to trying to do the powers and stuff. You didn't have to worry about it because it's because the Hulk in the Hulk movie looks like a cartoon on screen.
[00:25:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:25:18] Speaker B: Like it did not work out. It looks like you're watching who Framed Roger Rabbit. Like laid over a cartoon with regular people. Like the effects apparently were not quite there. Versus this looks overall decent. Like it looks pretty. It looks pretty good.
All right, let's see. Michael Clark Duncan as Kingpin.
[00:25:38] Speaker A: Which is. Is groundbreaking in a sense that they actually went with a black kingpin.
[00:25:46] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:47] Speaker A: Which. But on the same sense, I don't think you needed to. Also the. I, I think for.
[00:25:51] Speaker B: For going for the size of Kingpin.
[00:25:54] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:25:54] Speaker B: The intimidation of him and his size. You. I don't know if you could have cast much better at that point.
[00:25:59] Speaker A: No, you couldn't. Yes.
[00:26:00] Speaker B: For that.
[00:26:00] Speaker A: And I like Michael.
[00:26:01] Speaker B: I do agree reading that the, the Kingpin character in this movie was really sort of over the top.
[00:26:07] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:08] Speaker B: Like they sort of went a little far. And then in the grand scheme of him being a bad guy doesn't really do that much.
[00:26:14] Speaker A: No.
[00:26:15] Speaker B: Single handedly him, he doesn't really.
[00:26:17] Speaker A: But. But isn't he supposed to be more of a mob boss anyway? So it's more of a.
Other people do it.
[00:26:25] Speaker B: He calls hits on people. Yeah. So you know, ultimately he's the one responsible for all of these horrible things happening.
[00:26:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:32] Speaker B: But in the like to actually see stuff he doesn't really do anything. Versus in like the Daredevil TV series where like the Kingpin in that is like I'm gonna get my hands dirty and we'll like beat someone to death if they turn on him.
[00:26:44] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:45] Speaker B: Or if they don't do what he orders or what have you. Like, it gives you, I think, a much more intimidating side of it than in this movie where you don't really get much of him doing a whole lot until the final fight scene.
[00:27:00] Speaker A: Which.
[00:27:01] Speaker B: Also like two final fight scenes was kind of a bit. You get the whole Bullseye Kingpin. Yeah.
[00:27:07] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:08] Speaker B: It kind of almost had a little too much going on in it.
[00:27:10] Speaker A: Was that the fault of early Marvel in the first place anyways? Trying to throw too many villains into a movie?
[00:27:15] Speaker B: I think somewhat. Yeah. And I think it's still fault. I think ultimately you're, you're. To me, your math in a movie is usually better if you're doing a one on one scenario.
[00:27:25] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:26] Speaker B: You start adding too many other elements and it just gets too much too lost. And it gets, you know, with the.
[00:27:33] Speaker A: Casting they're not liking. We don't like the casting of Jennifer Gardner as Electra in the first place. It probably would have been better to do a. Maybe like a Ben Affleck Daredevil vs. Kingpinner vs. Colin Farrell as Bullseye in the first movie. And then instead of making Electra the second movie, or you could have made Electra the second movie and actually featured Daredevil in that movie and been in like a two part movie where you had like one villain. One villain. Or like a villain for Ben Affleck to fight in there, which maybe said Bullseye. And then there's like, what I loved about. What I love about the Marvel. At least phase one of Marvel Cinematic Universe was the fact that there was like each movie had their own villain, but then there was an overarching villain. Like, there's multiple villains you can fight at the same time. And that's the world of comic books. There's.
[00:28:16] Speaker B: If you can build it better rather than having to wrap everything up in one movie.
[00:28:19] Speaker A: So, like, I feel like they put everything in here.
Yeah. If we don't. If we don't put in Electra in this, people are gonna be pissed because it's a Daredevil movie that doesn't feature Electra or Kingpin or whatever.
[00:28:29] Speaker B: Oh, the electric side of it too. Of like, I feel like she was there because we have to have a romance side and rather than doing like the page side.
[00:28:38] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:39] Speaker B: In the Matt Murdock side and said we do the Daredevil Electra because, I mean, that's the Frank Miller big story arc. But it just wasn't. It just didn't come off right at all.
Weird. The like action stuff with Elektra, like just none of the Electra side work for me.
[00:28:57] Speaker A: The Electra being in there said it added another whole twist. And then Electra being the worst character in this movie, getting a sequel that is just her doesn't make really much.
[00:29:06] Speaker B: Like, I can kind of proudly say that I own and proudly say that I haven't watched. I don't know those two kind of go. I was like, I have to own this. I never saw either Election, so I bought it, but I've never watched it.
[00:29:17] Speaker A: I've never seen it. And I went to what I went to think about it. Oh, what's that? It came out two years later.
And the fact that Daredevil and Matt Murdock or Ben Affleck is not in it, it's so. It's a weird thing. It's like a sequel, but not a sequel of the character that people probably like. The.
[00:29:33] Speaker B: I don't even remember if that. Is that a sequel Origin. Is this her post all this or was this her how she got all of her martial arts stuff in the first place?
[00:29:42] Speaker A: I don't. I think it's like it's her fighting the Hand, but it's so it says. The story follows Electro as an assassin who is protected by a man and his prodigy daughter from an assassin to hired the Hand.
After being killed, electronachios is revived by the martial arts master Stick.
[00:30:06] Speaker B: So this gets stick in here.
[00:30:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:30:09] Speaker B: Weird.
[00:30:09] Speaker A: I didn't say usually in like, at.
[00:30:11] Speaker B: Least Wikipedia says we should watch that someday. But another piece of me like is happy that I've never seen it.
[00:30:21] Speaker A: So here's the thing. It received negative reviews from critics who found the script and storyline lacking. But many praised Garner's performance.
She then repraised her reprised her role as Elektra in the 2024 film Dead Pool and Wolf. That's correct.
[00:30:35] Speaker B: It's funny because my wife and I are talking about this morning. Liz goes.
And it makes sense for Jennifer Gardner's role now. She's like, I don't understand why they ever cast her. Jennifer Gardener is always a mom.
[00:30:44] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:30:45] Speaker B: And I'm like, well, back then she was the action Alias girl. And Liz like, oh, I sort of forgot about that because Jennifer Gardner now is so many movies and. And stuff that she comes out in is like the mom character and Jennifer.
[00:30:58] Speaker A: Gardner Alias, not Alias as in like Brian Michael Bendis Alias. You're talking Alias these. Which is also kind of confusing at the time that came.
[00:31:06] Speaker B: But yeah, not like the other.
[00:31:08] Speaker A: I just. I don't know, maybe. But think the success of X Men and the fact that the next. In that year, next year they put out X2. You think that the Daredevil movie was put into effect and put into motion, knowing they probably would do a second movie of some sort. And it was a financial success. It made double over double its budget.
[00:31:26] Speaker B: So like I'm surprised with the success financially of it. There wasn't a sequel or a Defenders movie that came from this something. But Ben Affleck, I wrote a quote that said he hated this movie.
[00:31:37] Speaker A: Yeah, he don't blame him in that sense. Like, I feel like he.
[00:31:41] Speaker B: This is actually why he went on to do the Batman role, because he wants a superhero movie on which. I'm sorry, Ben, the Batman movies you were in weren't good either. And I also think Ben Affleck has been great as Daredevil. I think he was great as Batman. I think the movies were in were terrible.
[00:31:57] Speaker A: So he does show up in the Director's cut of Elektra. It says right here on his Wikipedia.
He's not in the actual movie, but he's in the director's cut only.
But listen this. So the next year he went on.
[00:32:07] Speaker B: So he.
[00:32:08] Speaker A: Later on that year, he did Paycheck, which is really good. I don't know if you've ever seen Paycheck. Paycheck's phenomenal.
He did survive in 2024. He did surviving Christmas. Okay.
[00:32:17] Speaker B: I feel like I watched that, but I don't remember that much. Kevin Smith, Rent a Family. Is that what that one was? He's like rich people's doorstep.
[00:32:26] Speaker A: I don't remember.
[00:32:27] Speaker B: I can't remember. I think. I think it was something like that.
[00:32:29] Speaker A: Jersey Girl he did the same year with. With. Which was a Kevin. Kevin Smith movie.
[00:32:33] Speaker B: Yeah, that was a set.
[00:32:34] Speaker A: And there was Electra and then a Man About Town Clerks to Hollywood Land, Smoking Aces. So, like, it wasn't even like he was doing humongous things at the time.
[00:32:42] Speaker B: He was doing a lot of movies that maybe he wanted to do. Like this was. He wanted to do it. And then some of those other movies are more. I don't want to say artsy, but a lot of them are sort of like, lean towards that. And it's like this stuff that he wants to. He was not up. Not doing a movie to make a paycheck. It was doing a movie because it's what he wants.
[00:32:56] Speaker A: But he. He does a good job of playing Matt Murdock. He plays. It does a good job playing a blind person.
I think that, you know, I think there's, like.
[00:33:04] Speaker B: This was one of the first. It's maybe the first superhero movie that you see that, like, he. He has a toll taken on him. Like, they show him when he first comes and he takes the coat off and he's got scars all down his back, and he's getting the shower and he pulls a tooth out. I feel like up until this, like, Michael Keaton's Batman never gets hurt. Like, growing up watching those, like, he's always fine. He's great. He beats the crap out everybody in their brother. Like, nothing ever. There's never a toll. He's not even sweaty, really.
[00:33:33] Speaker A: No.
[00:33:33] Speaker B: Like. And this, like, Matt Murdock is exhausted. He's beat up.
His girlfriends keep leaving him. Like, he comes in, he hits the dancing machine. And this. This girl's like, I think this is the end of it. This is really all you are, Matt. And I don't know what you want, but I hope you find It. And, like, this guy's life kind of sucks. Like, it sucks. He's.
And this was, I think, really the first superhero movie I can think of that showed that. Yeah, that isn't glorious. This isn't like Superman and everything's great and you're. You get the girl and you look handsome and your suit's clean. Like. Like, this is.
[00:34:09] Speaker A: This is Marvel. This is true Marvel. This is Marvel saying that not all superheroes have, like, perfect lives. There's problems outside of being a superhero and fighting villains and things like that.
[00:34:18] Speaker B: I think that was a side of it. I. About this movie.
[00:34:20] Speaker A: I mean, outside, I mean, they do tint his hair red a little bit. I don't know if you noticed that his hair is a little bit more red when he's young. The hair is, like, bright red. I don't understand that. Like, they dyed his hair so bright red.
[00:34:34] Speaker B: He won't realize that he's gonna become Daredevil.
[00:34:37] Speaker A: And I don't know if it's just because of this, the four color processing of comic books back when Daredevil was introduced into the Marvel pantheon, but, like, his hair was red, then more red, and then it slowly morphed its way into brown hair now in most comics now, but outside the hair color of early, early, early, early Matt Murdock. He does look like Matt Murdock. I mean, like, not like he's like, he's got the chiseled chin, a fit body, like he's in shape, which is the juxtaposition of now a Foggy Nelson, obviously, in that sense too. Matt Murdock is definitely way more attractive.
[00:35:12] Speaker B: Yeah, they're like the Odd Couple or the twins from arnold Schwarzenegger, Dan DeVito.
[00:35:16] Speaker A: But on an overall casting thing, if you look back at it, it's like they could have done way worse and they've made. Charlie Cox is a Daredevil. Matt Murdock, he's a little bit more nerdy, a little bit more smaller framed, a little bit more. He's still in shape, but he's more petite in that sense than the original Matt Murdock, which is fine because I like the idea of looking at this guy being like, he's blind, he's slightly smaller. Why would he be a superhero kind of thing? It kind of adds that, that, that balance. But Matt Murdock as a whole, played by Ben Affleck, honest to me, is way more on point than him playing Batman.
[00:35:49] Speaker B: Yeah, Yeah. I mean, I like his Batman. He plays a little bit of an older Batman.
[00:35:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:35:53] Speaker B: So I like that. But I agree. I think he was. I thought he was a great Daredevil. I would have loved to have seen a better done movie with him as well. Something that wasn't, I don't know, a little too action hokey and a little too.
Just a little too much of everything, really. But yeah, I. I thought Ben Affleck was fantastic in it. Definitely the best casting of all. Because Colin Farrell's Bullseye was kind of goofy.
[00:36:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:22] Speaker B: And I don't know that it was Colin Farrell's fault, like, the. The writing of his character and all that. He's just sort of goofy.
[00:36:29] Speaker A: Do what's funny about it is like.
[00:36:31] Speaker B: The world's greatest, like, assassin. He comes across as just kind of an idiot.
[00:36:38] Speaker A: The.
The Michael Clark Duncan or it all. I'm kind of glad that he went that row and didn't do Vincent D'Onofrio, because we got the Vincent D'Onofrio to be in the good stuff later on. Right. But he could have. It was two years into Law and Order, he wasn't doing anything but Law and Order. So he didn't film a movie in those years of Daredevil. Obviously they make Vincent D'Onofrio a bigger feeling in the New Marvel stuff than he actually is. Like, he is a bigger dude, but he's not as big as they make him out to look in the movies.
They definitely angle cameras in certain ways and push people back. They make him look bigger and stuff like that. Yeah, so they definitely make him look bigger. But I think he's phenomenal as Kingpin in that sense of, like, having that thing. Taylor, my wife's favorite Kingpin is still from Spider Verse. Kingpin. She still thinks Kingpin.
[00:37:35] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. No, the Spider Verse Kingpin was very good, but I just think.
[00:37:38] Speaker A: Yeah, but Bullseye, to me, it's Elektra. Yes. Electra is the worst character in this movie. Bullseye's right behind. Right behind that. And the fact that, like, just. I don't know, I just feel like they could have easily done. They felt like they didn't want to give him a costume at the beginning, even though I felt it would have been more fitting to actually have the Bullseye costume on him.
[00:37:57] Speaker B: But, like, Bulls, like, costume would have. Honestly, in a more comic, accurate, Bullseye costume would have looked better than what we got.
[00:38:04] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:38:05] Speaker B: Which is not always the case. Like, sometimes the costumes are too much when you put them on screen and they're goofy and.
[00:38:09] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:38:10] Speaker B: Change them. And that's your whole X Men side of it where they all have like the black leather jumpsuit stuff, but the, the weird imprinted bullseye symbol on his forehead and the, the weird black spiky leather trench coat thing. And like all of that just looks bad.
So bad that it would have been better if he showed up as an average, normal looking dude that is killing people. And he's like, I want a costume because I'm fighting him. And you know, he has this bigger, this ego, this weird, larger than life ego. So Kingpin's like, fine, get a costume, I don't care. And how he chugging around in the black suit with the bullseye symbol on his forehead and have, have, have that like.
[00:38:50] Speaker A: But if you walk around without the suit on, if he's walking down the street without the suit on, you to go, that's a bad guy. The Bullseye without the suit on. And a regular person, he walks down the street, you'd be like, that's a regular guy. And so the fact of the matter is, is like he is permanently in his costume with the bulls, I think on his head. And the way he dresses, all the earrings and all this stuff. Like immediately people will judge him for being a bad person. Like, I don't understand. Even Kington, he looks like the, the.
[00:39:16] Speaker B: Thug hangs out at the bar doing all this stuff. Just exactly what they portrayed him in the movie as. Yep, that's his stuff. He's always doing something he shouldn't be in this and that. And it's just, it was not. The Bullseye character was just not well done. No.
[00:39:29] Speaker A: And I think it's ruined Bullseye for. Honestly, in movies and in TV and in things, it's ruined Bullseye for the future. Like, I feel like they, they were so apprehensive of putting. We won't get it.
[00:39:39] Speaker B: This might be a good chance to bring him back and do it right.
[00:39:41] Speaker A: No, and I think that we will. And I, I think it will be something that's a character. I mean, it's a very, very daredevil villain. It's not like they're not gonna bring it back. My point is like, when they did.
[00:39:51] Speaker B: That, they're like Spider man and all these more like ground level sort of characters that like, Bullseye is one that goes through multiple heroes and he's a dangerous villain. Like, but not the Colin Farrell version.
[00:40:04] Speaker A: No.
Oh, Colin Farrell. And I love Colin Farrell. That's the problem.
[00:40:09] Speaker B: Colin Fell SWAT come out around this time and like, yeah, like he was.
[00:40:15] Speaker A: A lot of good things recently. Yeah.
[00:40:17] Speaker B: And then there was this.
[00:40:20] Speaker A: Did you did you notice?
[00:40:21] Speaker B: I think a lot of people, a lot of people in this movie probably like to get this movie back. Like maybe not.
[00:40:26] Speaker A: Well, that's the thing is. So at the time I'm trying to think of back at the time it's like it fell marks for what it. It was at the time critically, critically received. Hulk was critically received better than this movie. And I, I decide disagree with that. Disagree with that. It was the Hulk was fan wise was received worse than this. So there is that. You know, there's always that balance between that. But X Men, X2, Spider man, this Blade, Hulk all came out around the same time. And I'm trying to think of like they're all weren't amazing. They were all the beginnings of what Marvel was trying to do in the early 2000s with movies.
[00:41:09] Speaker B: Honestly, the best one of all of those movies is probably Blade.
[00:41:12] Speaker A: Blade in Blade was two years prior.
[00:41:14] Speaker B: To having the least, the least issues in the grand scheme of things. Yeah, like I remember some of the vampires die when he hits them and some don't, which doesn't always make sense. And then there was like the, the end scene that the like big vampire explodes and he just goes like that and there's like nothing on him with this blood and crap all over the wall. Like kind of goofy. Like, I don't know, Wesley Snipes are probably like, yeah, you're not covering me in that stuff. But like overall the Blade movie holds up better than. Yes, like the Spider man. When I still have a lot of problems with that Spider man movie and that's like an iconic movie.
[00:41:55] Speaker A: Okay, while you're talking, I was thinking about this. Okay, so there's a couple things I want to talk about. One is so think about the early 2000s and Marvel movies up until Iron man came out. Now. Okay, this is your movies. You have blade in 98. Again, pretty good movie. I like that movie. I like the beginning of what this. I wish they would give Wesley Stanis more. I honestly think they should just reboot it now and put Wesley Sam's plate.
X Men, Blade 2, Spider Man, Daredevil, X2 Hulk, like I mentioned, then the Punisher came out. Okay, Spider Man 2 Blade, Trinity. Okay, Electra, then the Fantastic Four movie from 2005, the Last Stand from X Men and then Ghost rider, Spider Man 3 and Fantastic Four. Rise of the Silver Server. Those were our movies for Marvel before the mcu and they literally all are not great. Spider man, the first Spider Man. Okay, I'll take it.
I'll take it. The Blade trilogy. Again, take it X Men for what it was and for really. I mean, Blade didn't kick it off. X Men kicked it off. Really? I don't. Blade came out two years prior, but X Men was what put Marvel movies in the. In the limelight.
[00:43:07] Speaker B: And so I'll take it for what it is.
[00:43:10] Speaker A: For what it is. Yes. And then Iron man came out. Incredible Hulk, so on and so forth. So it was really kind of cool to see where it went from there. Did you know that prior to writing this movie, Mark Steven Johnson, the writer and director of this movie, Daredevil, wrote Grumpy Old Men in Grumpy Road Men, the Jack Frost movie with Michael Keaton. I don't know if you ever saw that Christmas movie where he died.
[00:43:33] Speaker B: Yeah, I like the movie.
[00:43:34] Speaker A: I think it's cute. I think it's. I think it's like a classic Christmas movie, in my opinion.
[00:43:38] Speaker B: It's weird.
[00:43:39] Speaker A: Do you know the next Marvel movie this guy went on to write Ghost Rider.
[00:43:46] Speaker B: Yeah, that adds up.
[00:43:48] Speaker A: Like, what are they doing? What are they doing? Giving him another movie.
[00:43:52] Speaker B: No.
[00:43:52] Speaker A: No wonder Ghostwriter turned out like. It's because they gave. He wrote and directed.
Made more money, though. It made $228 million.
[00:44:02] Speaker B: Why. Why did that.
[00:44:03] Speaker A: I don't.
[00:44:04] Speaker B: I don't understand that movie.
You're the defendant. I. People come in there like, oh, Nicholas Cage was great.
[00:44:08] Speaker A: And I was like, oh, no, I love Nicholas Cage. Nicholas Cage is. Got a soft spot in my heart. But guess what? One of his worst movies he's ever made is Ghost Rider.
[00:44:17] Speaker B: 100%.
[00:44:18] Speaker A: So I'll tell you that right now. He wasn't. He wasn't allowed to play his own character in that. Like, he played his own character in a sense, because it was him. But, like, I don't know, he was playing a intellectual property, so it's harder to be Nicholas.
[00:44:30] Speaker B: Intellectual property. Casting side of it. Nicholas Cage may want to be in a superhero movie. Terrific. He's not Johnny Blaze. He's not Ghost Rider.
[00:44:38] Speaker A: No.
[00:44:39] Speaker B: He was weird. He didn't look right. No.
[00:44:43] Speaker A: See how this guy wrote Grumpy Old Man, Grumpy Road Man. A movie called Big Bully, Simon Birch. I don't know what that is. It looks like a drama with. I don't know who that is. Ashley Judd. It looks like Jim Carrey movies.
[00:44:59] Speaker B: And then be like, yeah, why don't you write Daredevil for us?
[00:45:02] Speaker A: So, yeah, then he went on to the next movie he wrote All Together. So he made Daredevil four years off from writing and directing movies five years off and wrote and directed Ghostwriters. The next movie they gave him in the world of movie writing and directed was Ghostwriter. Then he killed that three years later he wrote a movie and then he went on to write Grudge Match with Stallone and De Niro.
[00:45:26] Speaker B: All right, am I having a fever dream? Is there a sequel to Ghost Rider or is that only one?
[00:45:29] Speaker A: Yes, yes. Ghostwriter, Spirit of Vengeance, which is funny because it was directed by Mark nevilledine and Brian Taylor, but it was screenplay was by Stephen or, sorry. David S. Goyer, who wrote the Dark Knight trilogy.
[00:45:43] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
[00:45:44] Speaker A: And Scott M. Gimple, who writes and produces the Walking Dead.
[00:45:48] Speaker B: I can tell you I dislike the first movie. The, the Ghost Rider I dislike so much. I never watched the sequel.
[00:45:55] Speaker A: No. And it's bad. It's really bad.
[00:45:56] Speaker B: But I think I watched Ghost Rider once.
[00:46:00] Speaker A: The guy who wrote Ghostwriter 2, Spirit of Vengeance, wrote Blade, wrote Blade 2, wrote Blade Trilogy, Batman Begins, Batman, Dark Knight, the Dark Knight Rises, man of Steel, Batman vs Superman, Terminator, Dark Fate, Hellraiser.
[00:46:17] Speaker B: You just struck out apparently on that one.
[00:46:19] Speaker A: He just. Some of those I mentioned aren't that good either though.
[00:46:22] Speaker B: So, like the third Blade movie leaves something to be desired.
[00:46:26] Speaker A: Listen, we got Brian Reynolds in the third Blade movie.
[00:46:29] Speaker B: We did. We got Ryan Reynolds. We got Triple H.
[00:46:34] Speaker A: Yeah. So overall, I, I told you at the outset before we started recording that I don't think this movie was, it doesn't deserve to be in the like. If you take all of the Marvel movies, I'm talking about the ones that were direct for movie for, for tv. The, the shield. Nick Fury watched all the stuff you want. So that it's not.
[00:46:52] Speaker B: I will tell you what, bottom five. No, I would watch this over man thing.
[00:46:57] Speaker A: Yeah, man thing. The Nick Fury movie.
[00:47:01] Speaker B: Yeah. Like if you took all of them.
[00:47:03] Speaker A: I don't think this would even be in the bottom five.
[00:47:05] Speaker B: I mean, to me, I'd watch this over Ghost Rider.
[00:47:08] Speaker A: I, I, I put two stars down. Okay. And I think mainly because I think I put. Again, when I go to rate these movies, I almost want to rate them like I was watching them like you did when you went to the theaters for it. Because I want to watch them. It was made in the time frame. I can't blame it for 2022 years.
[00:47:24] Speaker B: Later if I do. I'm gonna give it way too high.
[00:47:27] Speaker A: No, but, no. Just because you, just because you got a little something extra afterwards. Don't, don't wanna, but no. The, the idea that I Can't blame it for 22 years later for doing what it did then. Do you mean like.
[00:47:41] Speaker B: Yeah. Hindsight is 2020 because of its time? It's hard to say. Yeah. Cuz I mean, really, we gave, we gave the Doctor Strange movie an awful lot of like. Well, first time, it's what they could do.
[00:47:52] Speaker A: Well, so here's. You could always do Paul. You can almost say at the time I gave it four out of five stars. And right now I give it one out of five stars. So that means you give it like a three out of five. Yeah, two and a half out of five.
[00:48:00] Speaker B: I would say I would be at two and a half now. And I'm sure at the time I was probably a 4. I had problems with it, but I was like, I was all in. I was about it. I was really hoping to see him honestly see Ben Affleck back as Daredevil again.
So, yeah, I think two and a half is probably where I put it now. It's not a. It's. It's not the worst thing you could watch if you want to watch it. If you're looking for a movie of its, like, time and era, that's definitely right up there for it. But.
[00:48:27] Speaker A: But to me, it's like, I guess, see, no, but when we talked about Swamp Thing, it's like, if you want to go back and watch Swamp Thing, the Swamp Thing to watch the movie, the TV show that came out on HBO Max recently because that's better adaptation of it. If you want to watch Daredevil, watch the Netflix Daredevil seasons and then potentially watch the one that's coming out.
[00:48:47] Speaker B: If it's good.
[00:48:49] Speaker A: If you want to watch the specific things, like you want to watch the X Men, watch the animated cartoon, you know, X Men.
[00:48:54] Speaker B: Yeah, watch out.
[00:48:56] Speaker A: Those are the kind of things, you know, I always like to say to people. Like, I like the Dark Knight trilogy. So if you want to watch Batman stuff, watch that, like, that kind of stuff. To me, like, there is a thing, and this is not one of those ones that if you want to learn about, about Daredevil, do not watch this. Read no Brian Michael Bendis's stuff. Read it. Read, read.
Kevin Smith stuff. Read. Obviously.
[00:49:16] Speaker B: Frank Miller's is Frank Miller's a little dated, but it's still some of the best Daredevil work.
[00:49:21] Speaker A: I said Mark Miller because I just read the prose novel of Go read.
[00:49:24] Speaker B: The original Daredevil stuff that I read where he like, fights Stiltman.
[00:49:27] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:49:28] Speaker B: Daredevil Stiltman fight.
[00:49:29] Speaker A: Is that I'M gonna call out.
[00:49:32] Speaker B: I loved it.
[00:49:34] Speaker A: David Harper from the Off Panel Podcast and Sketch.com. his favorite character in all of comic books is Stilt Man.
[00:49:42] Speaker B: Dude, I respect that. I get that. I have a Stiltman figure in my personal collection on my shelf.
[00:49:48] Speaker A: He's waiting for the rights to be somewhere and have someone make a movie that has Stiltman in it.
[00:49:53] Speaker B: Man, I don't know why I like Stiltman, but I get it. Like in the Daredevil, the. Because I went back and I read Daredevil, starting with Daredevil number one, the old Silver age stuff. And I don't know, it's just fun. The imagery, the art, the stuff they do with Stilt man where he's like, he's so tall. He's, like, almost standing over, like, New York City. And there's Daredevil swinging around his legs, like, trying to get up to fight him. And he's got this ray gun. And, like, it is ridiculous. It is so weird. It makes no sense. But something about the image of Stealth man is like, if you want to see comics at his comicness, there you are. You want to see your weird, goofy, like, stuff. There's still man.
[00:50:30] Speaker A: Do we get Stillman and Daredevil born again? Coming up here on. On Disney plus, we're gonna.
[00:50:35] Speaker B: Well, I kind of hope not. I don't know. Frogman was kind of fun when they had the frogman and. And she Hulk.
[00:50:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:50:40] Speaker B: Because that's another great Daredevil, like, weird goofy villain of, like, an idiot in a frog suit. Like, yep, here he goes.
[00:50:50] Speaker A: You know, biggest thing about Stillman, too, is not like, this one guy in the history of Marvel Comics is Ben Stillman. There's been multiple people after the guy who originally was stuntman to be like, I think this is a good idea to be the person on these stilts. Like, that's his biggest fun thing about it. It's like, there's like, literally, it's not like Iron man passes a suit down. Like, this is literally like, guys, like, oh, these stilts. I'm gonna wear these stilts now and be Stilt Man. Like, it's entitled to other people. Yes.
[00:51:13] Speaker B: Yeah. People find the suit and they're like, all right, all right, I can be. I'm gonna wear this frog suit. I can jump abnormally higher. That's basically it. And I have, like. I think he also has a ray gun of some kind. Yep. And I think I got this. Now I am going to be a world class criminal in a suit that looks like a frog Yep.
[00:51:36] Speaker A: So one of the reasons we watched this movie for. For. For this time, Paul, was not because it. It's 22nd anniversary of the film. Because it comes out right around this time.
[00:51:46] Speaker B: Not to honor that years ago.
[00:51:48] Speaker A: No. We will be doing one later on this year. I think I have an idea of doing a 40th anniversary of something which would be kind of cool, but was because they are Daredevil. Born Again comes out on Disney on March 4, 2025, which is really cool. So we just thought, hey, let's watch the first big screen or screen adaptation of Daredevil to. To what it is now. It's really cool. If you did watch the Netflix series, they are bringing back some of those characters, which is really cool. Obviously you watch some of the other stuff like Echo in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Some of those characters like Vincent D'Onofrio and so on and so forth. Coming back, who's also with Hawkeye.
[00:52:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:52:26] Speaker A: As well.
[00:52:26] Speaker B: He was great.
[00:52:27] Speaker A: But like Charlie Cox. Charlie Cox is Matt Murdock coming back. Vincent D'Onofrio. You have Deborah Ann Wool who comes back as Karen Page.
Our boy from Mighty Ducks. Eldon Henson comes back as Foggy Nelson.
[00:52:41] Speaker B: Which is Hockey Stick once in the movie. In the show. Just have him once just have him like go like he's gonna have a slap shot like kids out play street hockey and it's like, nah, Instinct back on it.
[00:52:52] Speaker A: John Bernthal, Walking Dead fame. But also a great adaptation of the Punisher.
[00:53:00] Speaker B: We'll discuss that a different day.
[00:53:01] Speaker A: Oh, really? Yes. And then. Yeah, so there's some other people in there.
[00:53:05] Speaker B: I think we did discuss this already when we did original Dolph Lundgren, Punisher.
[00:53:09] Speaker A: Yeah. That you don't like the new one. You don't like him as.
But yeah, it's pretty cool. I'm excited for this. It's a nine episode season. They've already planned for a second season before this even hits screens. But I don't think they're gonna have a problem. This may be, and I'm gonna put it right down here, it may be the best in the most well received MCU TV show to date once this releases. I'll tell you that right now, I just feel like so much effort into it and if they can even pull a smallest amount of what they did for Netflix into. Into this, I think that those people who love the Netflix series are going to actually love this. And it's one of the highest rated Marvel Netflix series.
[00:53:48] Speaker B: You got to think actually, and I don't think People give them that enough credit, but Charlie Cox is almost as much. Daredevil is Robert Downey Jr. Is Iron Man. Like, yeah, when you go in, Chris Evans is Captain America. I think he gets forgotten because he did the Netflix series and then he did. Like, he did the original. Netflix had two seasons, right?
[00:54:08] Speaker A: Three seasons.
[00:54:09] Speaker B: 3C. Okay, so we had three seasons as Daredevil, then he was in Defenders.
[00:54:13] Speaker A: Yep. And he showed up in a couple of the other ones.
[00:54:15] Speaker B: So shows up over here. He shows up in she Hulk, and now he's getting another one. Like, he is Daredevil a lot.
[00:54:22] Speaker A: Yes. Like, I put him on the. On the same level. And a weird thing. Even though I put him on the same level as Grant Gustin as the Flash in the DC universe, where he was on, like, the Flashes on for, like, 17,000 seasons. And a lot of people in the world of DC Comics, tv, movies, whatever their mind, they see Grant Gustin as Flash. They don't see him as. There's no. There's the tv. There's obviously the ones that are in the movies. What's his face? Fucking crazy kid. Yeah.
[00:54:51] Speaker B: Yeah. Grant Gustin is definitely the best Flash that.
[00:54:55] Speaker A: So Barry Allen is like. People see him as that. So I think the same thing nowadays. I think I feel like in the same sense of in the mcu having Charlie Cox play Matt Murdock. Daredevil, it's in that same vein. And I think that they've been so smart that when they're like, oh, we're gonna do Daredevil things, to bring a lot of the same people back and just be like, okay, whether it's canon or not, whatever you want to do. I don't even know the confusion on it. Hopefully they. They touch on that and they figure out whether or not this show is.
[00:55:18] Speaker B: Canon, what connects where hopefully this is not connected.
[00:55:23] Speaker A: Even if it doesn't, I don't care. That doesn't mean you can't cast the same people. We've already stupidly, in the. In the Marvel world, cast other people who have played other characters in other movies as other same people. Like, you know, Josh Brolin plays Thanos, but also plays.
So there's that. And now they're all in the same universe or in the same ownership now. And so now they're like, okay, crap, we did this thing. I mean, when Ryan Reynolds has played, like, three different characters, I say two different versions of Deadpool. So it's like, I don't care. I love the fact that Charlie Hawks was really good at Deborah Annual Was great at. No, Foggy was great. Vincent.
[00:55:57] Speaker B: I think Daredevil, the. The Netflix Daredevil era stuff is the best adaptation of Daredevil so far.
[00:56:05] Speaker A: By far. And if you don't see someone from.
[00:56:08] Speaker B: The casting is terrific.
[00:56:09] Speaker A: If you don't see someone from the Netflix Defenders world coming over to mcu, it's because either they sucked and they cast horribly like Iron Fist, or. Or they couldn't come to a contract agreement. That's the only way I see it happening now, that they don't. They don't recast because I don't feel like. I mean, Jessica Jones was, I think, was great.
[00:56:29] Speaker B: Oh, Jessica Jones is awesome. I think Jessica Jones is my favorite Marvel. Like, oh, my God, I do so good.
[00:56:34] Speaker A: Best villain Kilgrade all of Marvel. Huge Thanos fan. But what's his face? Doctor who.
[00:56:42] Speaker B: Yeah, the Purple Man. David Shoot. Yep.
And we don't even film these at night anymore. We're not even drinking, and we don't.
[00:56:51] Speaker A: Remember, oh, who is it? People are gonna be pissed at us.
[00:56:54] Speaker B: People are gonna be mad at us. Yeah.
[00:56:56] Speaker A: Kill Grave is played by David Tennant.
[00:57:01] Speaker B: David Tennant. There you go, Purple Man.
[00:57:04] Speaker A: He's sorry, people.
[00:57:05] Speaker B: You know, I mean, you really want to get down to it? The Purple man could have just solved the Thanos problem. Yeah. You'd be like, snap your fingers and kill yourself. And Thanos would be like, okay, done.
[00:57:16] Speaker A: And that would have been a whole, like, tough.
But also a cool, tough thing to talk about using another villain to help kill another village. Like the whole Suicide Squad thing, or creature commandos on the DC side of things, where it's like. Or thunderbolts. In the Marvel.
[00:57:31] Speaker B: In the Civil War comic series, when Cap enlists villains and the Punisher kills all of them.
[00:57:36] Speaker A: Oh, my God.
I was thinking Mark Miller was on my mind.
Mark Miller was on my mind because of. I just finished reading the prose novel of the Civil War comic books. It was an adaptation by Stuart Moore. And I laughed because as I came up to it, it was like, people were like, oh, Punisher, you just kill someone. You're like, oh, yeah, no, that's not gonna work, guys. Yeah, and we're gonna get that with thunderbolts coming up here.
[00:57:59] Speaker B: I don't know what to tell you. That's what he does. Like, maybe you shouldn't have enlisted, Frank. Maybe you probably should just left Frank outside the clubhouse, because, yes, that's what you get.
[00:58:09] Speaker A: But I think that's. That two two and a half stars for this movie is probably worth it. I don't think it's great. I don't think it's a. It's horrible. They're. Honestly, Honestly, I will tell you, there's probably some movies in the MCU that I'd rather not watch. Watch compared to watching parts of this movie, if that makes any sense.
And so I think that says. Says a lot. Next up on the docket for us, dude, is Superman the movie, which is pretty excited about because, again, another one of those ones that's that. That the reason why they didn't make a lot of Superman stuff was the fact that. Oh, how would make him fly? Did a great job in this movie with that. So, yeah, I think we're gonna be doing it. It's also funny that they changed the name of the new Superman movie coming out with for James Gunn's universe. It was originally gonna be called Superman Legacy and is now just called Superman because someone pointed out to me that there's never been a movie called just Superman.
Oh, because the first movie technically.
[00:59:00] Speaker B: Right.
[00:59:00] Speaker A: No, this movie technically is called Superman. Colon, the movie. That's the actual name.
[00:59:05] Speaker B: Oh, Superman the movie.
[00:59:07] Speaker A: And so this movie, calling this just Superman, they figured out dc, like, well, they never call anything Superman because everything's been man of Steel.
[00:59:13] Speaker B: Yeah. Because it was Superman. Or that whatever that era was, which is, man. Still. See, I had this. I. I figured you said Superman. This is what we're watching. Watching the Christopher Reeves. And then I had this horrible thought. I'm like, what if he's talking about that man of Steel one?
[00:59:24] Speaker A: No, no, no. Original Christopher Reeves.
[00:59:25] Speaker B: That was. That was not good.
[00:59:27] Speaker A: No. So we gotta watch, like, it's not good, but, like, also not good. Like, this is not good. It's a time. It's period of time. Why? It's not good. That's not good. Because they just didn't make.
[00:59:37] Speaker B: It's not good. Yeah, that's just not good.
[00:59:40] Speaker A: No, we're not gonna watch that. Maybe one day we'll watch that, but no. Yeah.
[00:59:43] Speaker B: Superman the movie is, like, iconic. Like.
[00:59:45] Speaker A: Yes, I think. I think that's the whole point. So. But until next time, Paul Galactic Comics and Collectibles, where you can buy Pokemon, but you can't buy Pokemon because you can't buy Pokemon.
[00:59:56] Speaker B: You can now buy comic books again.
[00:59:58] Speaker A: That was a whole thing, man.
[01:00:00] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[01:00:01] Speaker A: More than six people online.
[01:00:02] Speaker B: I had 11.
[01:00:04] Speaker A: Well, you have to just tell people at the end you couldn't come in or do.
[01:00:06] Speaker B: We handed. We handed out tickets. And then immediately after people started coming in, they're like, is there more. And like, nope, sorry.
[01:00:13] Speaker A: I thought about that when I got home that night. That after I seen you on that Thursday night, was like, you were so annoyed with people calling and saying, hey, can I buy it early? Can I buy.
I don't wonder how more annoying was going to be at 4 o'clock in the afternoon Friday, someone coming in me, like, you have any sign on the.
[01:00:29] Speaker B: Door that just said, we're out?
[01:00:30] Speaker A: I. I hated that about working retail on Black Friday, where people would come in and be like, you have that special computer. It was like, It's. Dude, it's 7 o'clock at night. What would he.
[01:00:39] Speaker B: We sold out of those at 4am.
[01:00:41] Speaker A: I don't know where you've been, but, like, I know you overslept, but, like, I don't know.
[01:00:47] Speaker B: But yeah, that was a lot. That was a lot.
[01:00:50] Speaker A: So, yeah, so we'll do that and then honestly. So right after that, I don't know what we're gonna do after that. After, after, after Superman, the movie. I think I had.
I had you written down somewhere here. Where's Pauline? Oh, it's empty. I don't know. We'll have to figure that out. We have two empty ones. I have one scheduled for June releases in July. That is a 40th anniversary that we'll talk about and we'll get. All right, we'll hype it up a little bit. But. But yeah, Paul. See you around, buddy.
[01:01:12] Speaker B: Yeah, man. Appreciate.
