[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to another episode of the Capes and Tights podcast right here on capesandtights.com dot. I'm your host, Justin Soderbergh. The last episode for this year's horror Week at capes and tights is brought to you by Galactic Comics and
[email protected]. dot this episode is Clay McLeod Chapman chatting seance in the Asylum, a dark horse comic coming out on October 9. But also, we chatted wake up and open your eyes, which is Clay's book that comes out January 7, 2025, as well as a bunch of other things. We had some fun on this episode, but yeah, I, Clay McLeod Chaplin, is a writer of assailants in the Asylum at Dark Rose Comics, author of not all, like, what kind of Mother Ghost Eaters, Whisper down the lane and the remaking recently released novella stay on the line and kill your darling, as well as a upcoming novel called wake up and open your eyes. He's also written a number of comics for Marvel and other things out there as well. This is Clay McLeod Chapman talking silence in the asylum for dark horse comics and much more. Enjoy, everyone.
You thirsty?
[00:01:08] Speaker B: So I don't know if I'm thirsty, but I am sticky. I am.
[00:01:12] Speaker A: So I am.
[00:01:14] Speaker B: I got, like, stickiness happening all over here. I feel like.
[00:01:19] Speaker A: I feel like, yeah, you have a heart out, but, like, I feel like you have a heart out. Now you have to do it like ten minutes early so you can take a shower again for spilling your coffee all over the place.
[00:01:27] Speaker B: So gross.
[00:01:29] Speaker A: Help me. Oh, man. It's a. It's a. It's crazy. Well, the funny thing is, is a lot of times I record a lot of these, you know, discussions in the morning or, like, early or, like late morning on Mondays. Cause I work from home on Mondays, and I usually shift when I work my other job around this, like, you know, do an hour of podcasts. Instead of having a lunch break, I'll just eat during my lunch or whatever. And the number of people were like, that's fantastic. I don't want to do it at seven or 08:00 at night like all these other podcasts do. But I'm like, but then you risk spilling your coffee if you do it in the morning. You didn't drink all that coffee. It's all, oh, my God.
[00:02:10] Speaker B: Well, here's the thing. I've been up since 5435 because I get all of my work done before anybody else wakes up, so it is.
[00:02:22] Speaker A: Yeah, I slept in 515. I got a six month old and a three year old. So they're three and a half year old, so there's that.
[00:02:29] Speaker B: You're not getting any sleep?
[00:02:30] Speaker A: No, my six month old has a cold. So, like, she'll, like, sleep for, like, an hour, and then she'll cough and have, like, the most, like, snot filled.
Like, I don't even know. Like, how are you breathing? Like, how is this even possible? Like, you just like, oh. And then she sits up. She's fine. But I'm like, I'm not sitting up all night with you. Like, it's not. I'm sorry. I'm 38. I don't need to have up all nights with these kids. But no. And then today was my 100 sleep in.
515 came around. I'm like, cool, we're getting up. This is awesome.
[00:03:01] Speaker B: Take those minutes wherever you get them.
[00:03:04] Speaker A: On the way to school, my son's like, I gotta poop.
And I was like, can you wait?
Is this coming now? Like, do we have. Just pull over. And so he made it to school. But, yeah, it was a whole. It was a whole morning for me, too. So, you know, I could have.
[00:03:19] Speaker B: That's the killer. There's always that moment of, like, you can plan so far ahead and be like, do you need to go to the bathroom? Do you need to go to the bathroom before we go on this road trip? Do you need to use the restroom before we leave? And they're like, no, no, no.
[00:03:31] Speaker A: And then pulling out of the driveway.
[00:03:34] Speaker B: I need to go to the bathroom. I need to go to the bathroom.
[00:03:37] Speaker A: It's okay. We recorded last week with Nat Cassidy, and just before we wrote the record, my son shard himself and swash.
I'm like, nah, we're starting off strong here, man. This is gonna. I'll be right back. My hands made some. I want to. I'm here.
[00:03:51] Speaker B: I so want to believe that it was Nat Cassidy who conduced the sharding that, like, when. When in proximity to Nat Cassidy, people just automatically shart. Like, it's like. It's like this. This magic. Like, it's this, like, mutant power.
[00:04:07] Speaker A: Yes. It's probably. I mean, I could see that Nat.
[00:04:10] Speaker B: Cassidy's X Men name is Shartor. And he's like, if you're in, like, 3ft of him, you're just like, oh.
[00:04:18] Speaker A: Oh, nice to meet you, Nat. Oh. Oh, man. What is going on? Right?
[00:04:23] Speaker B: I just don't shake Matt's hand.
[00:04:25] Speaker A: And it's not. You don't actually, like, full on, you know, crap yourself. It's just a little, it's just a little, you just toot in little bit. It comes out. It's all it is, it's all, it's nothing.
[00:04:32] Speaker B: Crazy little tootin poop.
[00:04:34] Speaker A: Yes.
Ah, it's started off as a, you know, started off, we usually devolve into these kind of conversations, but it started off the top here.
[00:04:45] Speaker B: But I literally, I'm just like, I'm literally, my computer is covered. I just like, I'm just such a derper this morning. I spilled like, you the second, I don't know what the heck I was thinking. Like, I just, I just did the fumble and I spilled coffee all over everything.
[00:05:04] Speaker A: I saw you actually just do this. You were trying to get out of there. I wasn't going to let you get.
[00:05:07] Speaker B: Out of, oh, no. So this may be the last podcast I ever do because I might not have a computer.
[00:05:15] Speaker A: I don't want to be known for that. So Ozzy Osbourne, like, I live in Bangor, Maine, and Ozzy Osborn was supposed to come here like a number of times and like health obviously, and all this other stuff. And I'm like, can we please stop scheduling them to come? I don't want to be the town that's known for like, you know, that town that Ozzy Osborne died on stage. Like, I don't want that to be where like, I live. I don't want that to be any kind of connection to that at all. It would be horrible. Be like that. So like, please don't have your computer crash. And they'd be like, oh, I was on that podcast at once and I had a pitfall. I had a book due next week and it's gone now. Can't write this book anymore.
[00:05:51] Speaker B: I need to back up my computer now. I'm really panicking.
[00:05:56] Speaker A: So we're here to talk horror. So this is horror week for us. We're in horror week at the podcast. So we had, so today, as we're recording this, today's episode that dropped was with CJ lead. CJ came back on. CJ came talk, maybe fly last year. Now we're talking american rapture, which is an amazing book.
[00:06:14] Speaker B: Amazing book.
[00:06:15] Speaker A: And then my buddy Paul, who owns my local comic book shop, and I talked Swamp thing, the movie from 1982.
[00:06:22] Speaker B: Wes. Wes Craven.
[00:06:23] Speaker A: Yes, Wes Craven. Great, great conversation there. We had a couple of comic book writers and artists, Tate Bromble and Isaac Goodhart, who wrote the oddly pedestrian life of Christopher Chaos. They did a Halloween special, and then the previously mentioned Nat Cassidy, Shart Cassidy, aka Shartor and then now you're here. So we're here to talk horror.
You're many faceted. You have books, comics, things like that. I originally wanted to talk to you, like, the summer about seance in the asylum, but some delays in that, and so we pushed that out, and I was like, I'll talk to you sometime, hopefully in December to talk about your next book.
And then down to the silent. All of a sudden, Noah was like, that's coming out. I'm like, oh, crap. I didn't.
[00:07:07] Speaker B: Yeah, it's coming out. Like, that's. That's basically the feeling. It's like, ah, this book, it's coming out.
[00:07:14] Speaker A: It's coming out now. So. So then we talked to Caitlin over at Dark Horse. I was like, oh, let's get clay on here, and let's talk silence of this island. But also, we'll touch on. Wake up and open your eyes, because, Jesus, talk about sharding yourself.
It also doesn't happen. I'm in the middle of watching West Wing.
So, like, two months ago, I got Covid, and I needed to watch something that I didn't need to pay attention to. So just in case I fell asleep, but I hadn't seen because I wanted to keep my attention. Well, then I watched the first two seasons in, like, two and a half days. I just binged it, and then I felt like I had to finish it. Now I'm, like, limping along trying to finish this. And so then I read things like, wake up and open your eyes, and I'm just like, oh, God. This world we live in is just shit.
[00:07:57] Speaker B: Oh, my God. Oh, my God. You're reading it. You're reading the book.
[00:08:00] Speaker A: I already read it.
[00:08:02] Speaker B: You read it.
[00:08:03] Speaker A: I read it.
[00:08:04] Speaker B: Oh, my God. How are you?
[00:08:06] Speaker A: I'm not. Right.
I mean, the problem is, so I have my family. I'm not gonna say family. My dad. My dad is a huge Fox news person. Okay. So, like, it doesn't the. The. It hit too close to home in that sense. Yeah. To the point where when I was younger. So I'm 38. When I was about 22, I was living in Massachusetts that we previously mentioned before we started recording. I was living in Massachusetts, and I started to get ingrained in my mind that what you're supposed to do when you get home from work is come home and turn on Fox News. Like, that's where I thought, like. Like, our fax news, I should say. Um, but I thought that was, like, what you did. And then I started just getting, like, so deep in it. And then finally I woke up and was, I woke up and woke my eyes, that wasn't planned, by the way. That wasn't like a segue into this. I woke up and said, uh, okay, I could have my own opinions here. Like, I don't need to have the same as, my dad is smart, he's very intelligent, there's just some things that, like, this is not what I want. And I decided to go, oh, look at this, I'm gonna open my eyes and figure out there's other things to watch and see out there. And my opinion's changed a lot since then, so. No, it's phenomenal. It's all too close to home and real for me, but also in the world we live in. I'm glad it comes out in January for most people and not like right now, because I feel like people wouldn't want that right now.
[00:09:24] Speaker B: I don't know when the hell they're going to want that book. Yeah, I'm terrified of it, so.
[00:09:30] Speaker A: Well, why'd you write it then?
[00:09:33] Speaker B: I mean, something that scares me, it's kind of the thing that I find the most frightening at the moment. So, yes, I don't know, like I'm on this weird like habit of like, oh, what scares, what scares me right now? And it's like, oh, this is what scares me. And just writing about that and following my own neuroses, my own.
[00:09:57] Speaker A: Your description is massive, by the way. It's like an entire book just to read what the book's about. But the. Not that it's a bad thing, I'm just saying I'm not gonna read it all right now. Cause I just feel, I don't feel like reading it all. It's gonna take ten minutes to reread it. But what would you describe wake up and open your eyes just while we're on that topic to someone when they wanna. This is available for preorder right now, so you gotta get people to buy this thing. And pre orders are more very important people. And so what is wake up and open your eyes? Which comes out in January, January 7?
[00:10:26] Speaker B: I mean, my pitch is it's a, you know, what if half of the country was possessed by demons?
And which half is possessed by demons? I don't know, whichever half. Where do you get your news from? And you know, that it's kind of, you know, I think that's the kind of simplest explanation for it. You know, the country is slowly schisming and it's because half of us, whichever half, I don't know is becoming ooky and icky and scary.
[00:11:07] Speaker A: Yes.
I was at Bam yesterday, and I actually got Obama's book for, like, $7 in the clearance section, which I was, like, really pumped about. And the lady of the Kenner tried to talk politics with me, and I was like, first of all, I was like, I was getting, like, creeped out just because I'm like, I don't think you're supposed to, as an employee here, do that. So, like, I feel like to me, as someone who's worked in retail before, I feel like someone shouldn't be, like, talking, trashing one of the politicians sign. I want to rip those signs down. I don't probably should. She was, like, whispering it to me. And plus, I was with my son, and I'm just like, I just want to get out of here. I just want to go home. I leave. Please stop. But, yeah, so I think that's.
[00:11:49] Speaker B: I think that's. I think there's something to be said there where, like, the world is becoming increasingly more galvanized. Like, it's becoming more politicized. And the act of going into a restaurant is a political, like that is, I find regardless of what one personally chooses, we are making political acts or political statements, whether we're even aware of the kind of political nature of them.
And it's just because of these kind of heightened, fraught times that we're living in. And I'm not making some grand, sweeping statement for either left nor right. I think it's just like everything is just feeling, yeah, just supercharged, super, super, supercharged. And you can't, you can't walk out that front door without, you know, something, you know, happening for better or worse.
[00:12:53] Speaker A: Well, you're right, because, I mean, I'm, like, I said, one side or the other, I have down the street from me as a person who sells firewood, like, up on the side of the road, you know, like $5 for a bundle of firewood or whatever. And I had a friend of mine who used to go by there and pick up all the time until they put a politician's sign on their front steps. And then they're like, I'm not buying wood from them anymore. Like, all of a sudden, nowhere. Like, nothing. They never spoke to the person. They never anything like that. It was just immediately like, I'm never buying wood from there again because that person supported another candidate that they didn't agree with. And I'm just like, nothing changed, though. Like, you still supported this person. Like, like, so I'm like, but there's that. And there's that point where, like you said, both sides of it doesn't matter what side you're on. I think now this book, wake up, and you open your eyes, it's a little.
Again, I like reading things that make me escape a little bit, but there's also ones that be like, oh, this is a little close to home. And the horror that you would expect to be the horror sometimes is not exactly. You know what I mean? Like, you watch terrifier the movie, you're like, this is gonna. I know what the horror is gonna be. It's art the clown. It's this, that, and the other thing. And then you read something like, wake up and open your eyes, and you're not. Like, you don't know what the horror actually is. You're trying to figure out what the actual horror of the book is, and.
[00:14:02] Speaker B: Everything is the horror. Yeah, all of it's the horror. Still.
[00:14:06] Speaker A: Your coffee's the horror.
[00:14:09] Speaker B: I. Yeah, I.
That book scares me so much, and, like, I do believe that. Like, I just don't know, man. I.
This is the only time that I could write that book, you know, five years from now. I mean, who the heck knows what five years from now is going to be like? But I feel like this is. This was the opportunity to kind of write about this specific moment in cultural history and, you know, hope for.
Hope for the best, you know? You know, and it's.
I just had to get it out of my system, so.
[00:14:47] Speaker A: You did. But I told CJ when she talked, we talked on the podcast. I was like, hey, your book comes out October 15, so it's guaranteed to come out if the world ends at the beginning of November after the election. No, actually, other than the advanced copies, no one will read to be a cup of hope, you rise, because we won't be around anymore.
[00:15:05] Speaker B: I love american rapture. God, that book, that might be one of my favorite books of the year.
[00:15:12] Speaker A: Phenomenal. And. Yeah. And to be the follow up to mayfly, too, is just like. Like, yeah, absolutely brutal. But I also read this year's stay on the line, which was phenomenal as well. And I have not got a chance to read kill your darlings, but I will be reading that. That's another vella.
[00:15:31] Speaker B: There's time.
[00:15:32] Speaker A: There's always time. But I did read silence in the asylum, number one, which I'll tell you right now, Clay, you weren't originally, when this was solicited to me, you weren't the draw, and I apologize for that. But the original artist was the draw, and so I'm a huge fan of Andrea Mudy, who actually did the. Did the covers. Anyway, so you have your cover of issue one is Andrea. But I, after reading books by you, then I was like, okay, yes, I really want to read Sandstone as I want some more of this, and so on and so forth. So sands in the asylum comes out this month, October 9, from dark verse comics. But, yeah, how did this come to be? Like, how did you. Is this, you know, what is, why this story? Why in comics?
[00:16:21] Speaker B: Well, I love comics. I've written for comics.
You know, I feel as if this particular story needed to be a comic.
I found this. The idea for this story was seeded into my subconscious when I was doing research for a book a couple years ago.
And I was looking at different kind of forms of spiritualism and seances and kind of contacting ghosts, spirits from beyond the veil. And I found this. There was a mention in another book, a nonfiction book, about in 1850s 1857, there was a doctor who wrote an entire pamphlet, a treatise on this idea of spiritualism and seances being a form of therapy that you could use contacting ghosts and contacting the dead as almost like a spiritual cleanser. And I thought that was so fascinating that, like, you know, at that point, these menstrual institutions, these asylums, would be implementing spiritual seances amongst their. Their patients. And this wasn't, like, widespread, wasn't like an form of, like, hydrotherapy or, you know, shock therapy or, you know, it was in of itself just a very fringy kind of notion. But for this one doctor, like, he. He really wanted to purport like. Like this. This will be the. The revolution of, you know, of modern medicine, because at that time, spiritualism was pretty hot. You know, this idea of, like, contacting the dead, you know, finding family that had passed on and gone beyond the veil a little too early to say goodbye and say, I love you.
That idea that it could become a form of healing for those who are mentally infirmed or, you know, suffering from whatever kind of form of madness they believed in, you know, back in 1860, 1865.
And I just thought, I read this mention. I hunted down the book, the pamphlet. I read the pamphlet, and I was like, oh, my God, this is the most amazing thing ever. I want. This needs to be something. So it became the kind of seed source material inspiration for seance and the asylum.
[00:19:14] Speaker A: Yes. The.
[00:19:15] Speaker B: The.
[00:19:16] Speaker A: And I talked to. We talked a little bit off before we recorded, too. But, like, I've talked to Daniel Krauss about this too, and other authors who are also comic book writers. What makes the decision between whether or not this becomes a novella or a novel or a comic book? I know you said you're a fan of comics. You've written for comics before, but, like, what said that silence and silent needs to be a comic book over something else? It just, just felt like that's what it needed to be. Orlando.
[00:19:39] Speaker B: Well, it's the visual medium. I mean, I think that when you're dealing with, I mean, like, sure, I could have written a screenplay or, like, try to make a movie out of it, but, like, the scope and scale and with comics, you have a gazillion dollar budget and your mind's eye is the camera, and you're, you know, not only are you kind of, like, dealing with kind of the visual vocabulary, but, like, you get to, like, play with time in this way that's just so different and, like, the way that we see these things, but all the, but also the way that we experience them, the way that, like, we kind of absorb image and the pacing of them. I just.
Comics is great for, for those practitioners who really kind of know how to utilize the medium. And, you know, I, I had been writing about seances for gazillions of years, and I just come back to it time and time again because I'm obsessed. I love it.
But I knew that for this particular, it was historical. It was a period piece.
I didn't want to write a novel about the civil War era, but I think that the comic provides a visual for us to kind of dive into that, that kind of period in time.
And it, I don't know, it just kind of launches you in and I don't know. Like, I just feel like it's just, it's gorgeous. I mean, like, Leonardo's work is just phenomenal. And, like, the, you know, the book is just going to be, I'm just going to, like, we're stockpiling seances in there. Like, I think issue one has, like, what, two seances in it. Like, it's like, just cram that, that shit in. Like, let's just, let's just get to the goods.
And that's, I mean, I should know the answer to this, and I'm probably sure that somebody has, but it's like, that idea of, like, who's done a seance in a comic book. Is there someone? There's bound to be someone, right?
[00:21:51] Speaker A: Yeah, possibly. I can't put my finger on it, but, like, there's got to be.
But is there one that has, like, 17 in the first for. You're just going for the number. You're going for the Guinness Book of World records number for no reason. You like seances.
[00:22:04] Speaker B: You like comics. You like seances in your comics. Well, you gotta get seance in the science right there in the title. We're just gonna chuck chock full of seances. Well, it's only four issues, but that's, you know, you're getting bang for your buck, baby.
[00:22:18] Speaker A: But, I mean, you mentioned Leonardo artwork. It's phenomenal. And so, like I mentioned at the top of this conversation about seance is that it, it had Andrea Mudy as the artist. And then Andrea's covers, if you see the covers out there and you're a fan of Andrea, they're phenomenal covers. But I wasn't disappointed, if that makes any sense. When I opened the, finally open the issue, I'm like, at first I'm like, okay, cool. We have to wait longer because now we're changing artists. That's fine. It happens in comics all the time. This is not a new thing. I'm waiting for it. And then I opened the issue, I'm like, okay, I'm not sad. I'm not disappointed by this, because this phenomenon, leal, not Madden.
[00:22:58] Speaker B: I'm just disappointed.
[00:23:00] Speaker A: My dad used to say, I'm mad at you.
[00:23:01] Speaker B: I mean, it happens.
[00:23:03] Speaker A: Well, it happens. I'm not mad. I'm just disappointed. No, but I wasn't. And that's the thing. I could have been. And I think sometimes you get that notion in your head, like, you already discount someone's work when something changes from what you're expecting it to be. And so I was expecting a great comic from you and Andrea, and then I got a comic from you and Leonardo, and I'm like, and then I open it, I'm like, no, nevermind. That's not, that's not even in my mind anymore, because it's phenomenally done. I almost think I liked it better. Like, I like Andrea's stuff, but, like, I feel like I now think this works better for Leonardo than it did for Andrea. So that makes me happy.
It's phenomenally done. It's colorist morrow. M a u r o. Moro gama.
[00:23:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:23:51] Speaker A: And it's at Dark Horse, which is a knack for telling these kind of stories, which I'm excited for. I really am a big fan of dark horse and all the stuff they're doing over there.
Did dark horse just choose to take this one on, or is dark horse the place to be? Or is there a reason why you were at dark horse?
[00:24:06] Speaker B: I mean, dark horse has been great because the level of faith that they have in their creators is pretty, uh, pretty jaw dropping, to be honest. Like, you know, I, you know, I feel like the editorial process, you're always, you know, finding your guardrails. Like, what is. What's the. How, you know, what. How closed in are we going to be? And tar course has been really kind of open. It was like, like, what's the story that you want to tell? And, and us being like, can we, can we do this? And they're like, yeah, go for it, do it. And, you know, I don't have, like, an either or, but, like, I do. Like, more often than not, if it's a yes or no question, the answer at dark horse is always yes. And I find that really refreshing because a lot of, not all the times, but sometimes the answers at other places have been no and, or maybe, but no. And I I don't know, like, it's a, like, dark horse has just been like, really bit like, yeah, let's do it. Let's go wild. Let's go crazy.
[00:25:24] Speaker A: I've heard that. I mean, you're not the only one to say that, which is nice to hear is that dark wars does that. And some of these independent publishers is also a difference between, like, writing for the big two, like, writing for marvelous, versus writing for some sort of independent. This is your story. This is really, like, you have to be like, I want, you know, spider man to do this, or carnage to do this. And they're like, eh, can't do that because, you know, the x, y and z, whereas you can have three asylums, two seances in the asylum in the same. And no one's going to question it because there's no, this was a Marvel comic.
[00:25:54] Speaker B: Whoa, whoa, whoa. One. One seance one's question.
[00:25:57] Speaker A: What's questioning?
[00:26:01] Speaker B: It's not called seances in the, it's just, it's just singular. Now.
[00:26:08] Speaker A: You'Ve written a lot of symbiote style things. Like, they have to, you know, there's certain things that they abide by in the rules, and there's different. There's a future. You mentioned this is four issues. Yes. Could you do more in the future if you ever wanted to? This is your story. And Dark Horse says yes. I've talked to other creators who did a four or five issue miniseries at Dark Horse, and then two years later, they're doing a sequel to that and so on. And. But, like, you know, there is a future. You know, Lasher and all these other people have to carry on after your Marvel comic. And so you can't do specific things because of parameters that they have set, whereas you really have whatever you want to do because it's your story.
[00:26:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
I feel like every time I've written for Marvel, it feels like such a kind of blessing because there's, like, this moment of, like, I mean, you're playing in someone else's sandbox. You're playing with someone else's toys. Like, it's a, you know, you can go to town and, like, have a blast, you know, working with carnage or venom or, you know, lasher or scream or, you know, any of the characters, and it's. It's great. And, like, the best stories tend to be ones that elevate the characters that they've had in their stable and push into new territory and do something different with them. But, you know, like, at the end of the day, it's their. They own it. It's theirs. I. But when you do a creator own piece, it's kind of like, there is a certain kind of, like, okay, now this is mine.
What do I do? Like, what is. Where do I want to go with this? And, like, I don't know. Like, it's been a while since I've done a creator own story, so I feel really lucky. Literally fortunate.
But there is that moment of, like, oh, yeah, my editor isn't going to tell me I can't do that because in issue 234, you know, Spider man was wearing box and not, you know, keds.
[00:27:56] Speaker A: Well, it's also funny because I think that there's things that you get told and you're like, you can't do this. Like, Kevin Smith has talked about writing marvel stuff, whether it be tv or comics, and him be like, I want to play with this character. Like, you can't touch that character. The character that's, like, not anywhere. And he's like, why can't I, like, he's reading too far into it. Like, what's coming up in the future that I don't know about that I can't use this random ass character in a comic book or a tv show. And so you're like, kind of like, I would be like, I would want to see. I would want to be like, well, what are you going to do with it if I can't touch it? What's going on? And I can see, like, you have a freedom, but also having parameters might be a little bit easier to stick within those parameters and write within those parameters. Whereas in four issue series of seance and the asylum, you could literally do whatever you wanted to as long as it made sense. And I guess the fourth issue.
The fourth issue doesn't have to make sense, because it's the last issue.
As long as you sold the first three issues. Well, the fourth issue, you could do whatever you want with, because there's no fifth one.
[00:28:53] Speaker B: So, I mean, like, it's, it's because just trying to tell a ghost story, we're trying to tell like a, like a historical period, psychological, supernatural, you know, it. I mean, like, to me, this is just the catnip of everything. Like, every trope, every cliche, every, everything that kind of makes gothic.
What is, I mean, like, what would be a prop? Like sanitarium horror hospital horror, like the kind of shutter island of it all.
[00:29:32] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:29:33] Speaker B: What is going to the mental institution? And I just eat that stuff up. Oh, God. It's just, yeah.
Playing those notes, man.
[00:29:48] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, it's a phenomenal first issue and sets up a lot. I do appreciate, there's obviously a backstory to Alicia Wilkinson, you know, her story as a person of these doing these seances and things like that, like the spiritual part of her. And you could have, at least you could have come out, and I don't want to spoil anything in the comic for people, but you could have come out and been like, this is the history of Alicia. And then we move into the rest of the thing. I do appreciate the flashback dream sequence, kind of, like, touching on those things. Like, let's go back and talk about her past. But we're obviously in the, in the present, and we're working towards that. I felt like, I honestly felt like that was something that author would do, too. So, like, I feel like there's that reasoning. Like, it seems like when I'm reading a novel, that's what they do with a novel. And so I could see that overlay on that. But, yeah, I appreciated that because it broke up some of the entire comic, the first issue, as well as gave us more information without having to be like, okay, here's her faults, and let's go forward from there, and so on. And it was timely in that point where, where you read it. So, um, it's well written. It's well illustrated. Like I mentioned, covers are phenomenal. Um, all that stuff. It's four issues. That's a big thing to me nowadays is, is that, uh, you know, I think someone's attention span is not that long. Why? I think novellas are killing it right now, too. I honestly think that novella, uh, you know, the industry of novellas are really high up there. Uh, it's because attention spans aren't that strong anymore. And I think that reading four issues and being committed to four issues, a lot of times, if I buy a first issue of a four issue miniseries, whether I like it or not, I'm buying all four, because I need to collect all four. I need to have all of them. And so having it be only four issues is a nice little tight story, as long as, you know, it's four issues to start off with. Like, if you as a creator, like, yeah, you get ten, and then they shorten it to four issues. Sometimes those could be a little tough.
[00:31:35] Speaker B: Yeah, four was tight.
I would have been happy with five, but four kept us honest, kept us clipping along.
But this, to me, is just such a self contained story.
I seriously doubt there'll be a sequel to this one. I mean, I'll eat those words happily, but this is what it wants to be. It just get in, get out of, you know, because, you know, what you're, what you're suggesting with, you know, I'm committing to four issues. You're also committing to four months. Like, we're starting in October. We're not going to finish this thing until January. Like, that's, am I doing that right? October, November, December. Yeah, January. Like, that's nuts. Like, that's, that's a lot of time to ask anyone. Like, hey, come back. You know, we're still here. Still going, you know, like, head back to your local comic book shop and pick up the thrilling conclusion. Happy New year.
[00:32:38] Speaker A: Yeah, we basically get to say Happy.
[00:32:39] Speaker B: Halloween, Happy Thanksgiving, Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, and Happy New Year. So happy, happy, happy, happy, joy, joy, joy, joy.
[00:32:46] Speaker A: Which is funny, because that's not what your original plan was. It was going to be like, three months ago, so we would have been finishing it.
[00:32:51] Speaker B: I know, but we wouldn't know what would happen.
[00:32:53] Speaker A: Yeah, but things happen, and so it's fine, which is great. It's coming out. I'm still happy that's coming out. People are actually going to read it because that's the big part. But, yeah, I mean, so this, this working on a creator own thing, like you mentioned, hasn't been, it's been a little while since you create your own comic. You've been dabbling over there at Marvel for a little while there, and so on. Does this reinvigorate wanting to do more comics that are creator owned? Or is it more like, okay, I'm getting right back to write my novels. I'm done with writing some of my own comics again?
[00:33:21] Speaker B: No, I mean, Jesus.
I've been pitching creator own stuff every, like, yeah, how do I say that? I know.
I try to keep busy, and when a story comes my way or an opportunity, maybe it's even more an opportunity. Every so often, an editor at a place will reach out and be like, hey, you got anything? And I'll be like, yeah, how about this? And they'll be like, oh, nah.
Everybody says, no, I've been rejected.
It's just such a bummer. And, like, you know, I'm not. I don't know if I should be saying this, but, like, it's just been so hard to, like, sell something. I.
I've been trying.
I wouldn't say like, I've been trying desperately, but, like, you know, I'll. I've been able to do the marvel stuff, which is kind of like, it happens, and then it goes away, and then I'll be like, am I ever going to write for Marvel again? Like, I don't know.
Because I, like, the phone doesn't. Like, I can pick up the phone and be like, hey, Marvel, you like? You know, but it's like, when they call, they call. They don't pick up the phone. And that's. That's fine. That's.
[00:34:35] Speaker A: You call them. They're like, who are you?
[00:34:37] Speaker B: What's going, you know? And that's, that is totally fine, because that's just the nature of the business and the beast.
If they want me, they will reach out to, I just have to remind them that I am alive and that I have potential value, but then create our own stuff.
There's definitely not a shortage of amazing writers and artists in comics. So I get it.
My ability to kind of pitch stuff is really like, I'll do something for Skybound, or I'll do something for boom. Or I'll do something for vertigo or for whoever's around. And they'll be like, oh, that was really fun. Do you have any ideas for something else? And I'll be like, yeah, how about this? Or, how about this? Or, how about this? And they'll be like, three months later. They'll be like, nah, none of those floated our boat. And I'll be like, oh, okay, bye.
[00:35:43] Speaker A: Awesome. Thank you. Appreciate.
[00:35:45] Speaker B: And, like, you know, that is it is what it is, so.
[00:35:50] Speaker A: Yeah, but I think it's the thing that behind the scenes, people don't understand a little bit is that is the fact that there's so many comics out right now, but there's also that many comics out there times ten, the number of pitches and ideas that are floating out there, because only a few of them stick, and only a few of them actually get to create it. And sometimes it's like those four stories you brought to someone, it's like, it's just not the time for them. Sometimes it's six months, a year from now, someone's like, actually, weren't you pitching me this idea? Can we do that now? Or another publisher picks it up or whatever it may be? Yeah, I know. There's that. Like, there's people who worked on comics for ten years the same, not worked on it, but just had the idea that they've been pitching it and doing whatever with it, and it finally got made. You know? I know that, like, they're quotes, though, but, like, it's in everything in publishing, I believe it's like that, though. Like, it's not. I mean, I think CJ was saying that it took her ten years to get american rapture made. It's not like, it's not like it happens overnight, and some people it does. Some people are lucky enough to get things overnight, and some people get to the point where their name is so synonymous with good comics that they just, like, will print your grocery list as a comic book. Will illustrate your grocery list. There's an apple, here's an orange and all that, but, yeah, but I do think one of the cool things about what Dark Horse is going to get out of this comic, too, is the fact that you have a loyal following in your novels. I believe you have a fandom that follows your writing, and I think that Stanton asylum, above and beyond things like Lasher and all those Marvel comics that you've done over the past couple of years is that it's easy for me, in my mind, to translate from your writing in novels to your writing in comics when it's a creator own thing. Not saying that it's not like that for the symbiote universe, but your stance in the asylum is a lot more like your books than your marvel work is. And so I think a lot of people who are fans of yours out there should be able to stumble upon stance in the asylum and find something they like. Maybe they're not into comics, which is really cool, because Dark Rose might get that person to bring over to the visual medium.
[00:37:46] Speaker B: Yeah, wouldn't that be nice? I feel like, yeah, I just have to let the folks know. Let the people know that this comic is out there.
[00:37:54] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:37:55] Speaker B: You like seances?
You like asylums? I got a seance in an asylum for you.
[00:38:03] Speaker A: It's funny, I have. At the asylum. In the asylum, yeah. So it's available October 9. It's the first issues. Again, you mentioned it's every month, so October, November, December, January is four issues coming out from Dark Horse. Dark Horse does a great job collecting those into a trade paperback, too. I recommend reading month to month. I remember at least buying a month to month. And again, I'm a big fan of Andrea Mudy. So there's that cover part of it, too. It's also variant cover as well, so check that out. So you have all those options for that if you're a big collector in that sense, if you trade weight, you trade weight. I can't stop you from doing that. Like buy the trade, whatever. You know, it is what it is. But you also have stay on the line, the novella that just came out recently, you have kill your darling, which just came out recently, you have wake up and open your eyes. That's available for pre order coming out in January.
And you've got other stuff that you're working on and have released. It's just. You're just a busy person, and you need to breathe here for a second.
[00:38:56] Speaker B: I don't know. I'm gonna die. I'm gonna die. And, like, I'm gonna be in my grave and I'm gonna be like, oh, man, I should have fucking written that thing.
[00:39:04] Speaker A: I should have done that thing.
[00:39:06] Speaker B: And I'll just be. I'll just live the rest of my eternity regretting not having written that thing. So I'm just gonna write it until people say, nope, stop writing.
[00:39:16] Speaker A: Nope, clay, please stop doing that.
[00:39:20] Speaker B: Somebody needs to have a seance with me when I'm dead. And I'll write from the grave.
[00:39:26] Speaker A: That's it.
[00:39:28] Speaker B: Seance in the. With the clay.
[00:39:32] Speaker A: But, yeah. And so all that stuff's coming out, and I think I recommend all of it. I do. And I think that if you're a horror fan, there's a bunch of horror there for you. Again, if you're a Marvel fan, there's a bunch of marvel stuff out there, too, that you can grab. And then if you haven't had an opportunity, which I haven't yet, but I've seen on the Internet, if you get a chance to meet Clay, I've heard this is an experience. So I think that this is coming out October 5 or whatever, fourth, whatever I do this week and October 19, I'll be able to. I'll see you in Massachusetts. But there's other things coming up. You did book signings. You're a fun person on the Internet. I love your writing, so keep it up. Do not change at all. We're big fans of you, and, yeah, silence in the asylum comes out October 9, and I'm going to pitch. Wake up and open your eyes. January 7. Pre order. Pre order. Pre order. Most places you honestly pre order nowadays, too, they don't actually charge you until you ship it. So, like, it doesn't make a difference if you're gonna buy it, just pre order it. Because then it's. Why? Why wait? Just pre order it.
[00:40:31] Speaker B: That's saying, that's money in your pocket, staying in your pocket until.
[00:40:35] Speaker A: Until you're like, oh, shit, I pre ordered that. Where's this money coming from?
[00:40:40] Speaker B: What happened? Where did that book come from? Why did I buy that?
[00:40:44] Speaker A: I appreciate you taking the time out to come on here and chat. Silence in the asylum. Wake up. Open your eyes. All that stuff and so much more. I will see you in a couple of weeks. But, yeah, I appreciate it.
[00:40:55] Speaker B: Thank you. I just want to say the sharder. The sharders.
[00:41:01] Speaker A: People just walk up to Nat and say, hey, you're a charter.
[00:41:04] Speaker B: Oh, my God. Yes. Okay. If anyone is listening to this right now, if you've stayed on to the bitter end of this podcast, this is my favorite. This is my. I am pleading with you. I am begging, please, please, dear listener, go up to net.
[00:41:22] Speaker A: And just be.
[00:41:22] Speaker B: Like, just call him the charter.
[00:41:25] Speaker A: Can you sign that? Can you sign my book? Can you sign my book? Can you please write that up to the charter? Which is actually kind of funny, because if you think about it, we talked about his book called Rest Stop, which is about a bathroom at a rest stop. So, like, it would actually fit.
[00:41:39] Speaker B: Oh, my God. It all goes together, like, on social media, just on Twitter. Just. Just like, tag Matt. And just be like, hey, charter. What's up, charter?
[00:41:51] Speaker A: Don't tell him why?
[00:41:55] Speaker B: I just want two or three people to just be like, word up, sharder.
[00:42:03] Speaker A: My son's gonna turn 30 and hear this story. Be like, hey, by the way, you started before a podcast, and this is. This has become a whole thing. Nat Cassidy, the shard.
[00:42:12] Speaker B: I am. I am begging.
[00:42:14] Speaker A: I found out your next creator. Creator on comic. You co write a book called the Charter with Nat Cassidy. But I don't know if dark horse is gonna go on with that one. You might. You might have to be an image book because you might have to self fund that one. Sure. The sharder seems like one that's questionable.
[00:42:29] Speaker B: One man holds the power to rule the world.
[00:42:32] Speaker A: All I can think of though, is.
[00:42:33] Speaker B: Like, you fart and kinda shit.
[00:42:36] Speaker A: I just picture in my mind the shit monster from dogma. Kevin Smith's dogma. God, you know, everybody comes out of the toilet. I just picture that. Now that's, that's, that's the charter right there. But, you know, I don't know.
[00:42:45] Speaker B: Please, please, I'm begging you. Any one of you, whoever you are, I will thank you to the high heavens. But like, just, just word up, shard.
[00:42:56] Speaker A: Oh God, this is great. This is gonna start off with. With, uh. Well, coffee also makes you short, so it all goes together. You know, Clay spilled this coffee all over his table when we started this podcast. We ended it with telling people to call Nat Cassidy a charter. It's great, but yeah, it's all. And there's a bunch of stuff happened in between, so if you.
I appreciate everything, Clay. I will see you soon again. You know, keep up the great work. We're big fancier, and I hope more stuff comes out from you in the future. I hope so. We'll see.
