Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to the Capes and Tights podcast right here on Capes and tights dot com. I'm your host, Justin Soderbergh. This episode is brought to you once again by our friends at Galactic Comics and Collectibles over at Galactic Comics and Collectibles dot com. This episode sees the return of Jay Martin, cartoonist and storyboard artist. Jay is here to talk about his comic book Yellow, a graphic novel coming out from Dark horse comics on December 17th in bookstores and December 18th in comic book stores. We also touched a little bit on Lost Boy, his book that came out last year, which was absolutely wonderful and considered one of our comic books of the year.
Jay also has storyboarded in Hollywood for movies such as the amazing spider man 2 Constantine, I am legend, ad astra, the hunger Games Catching Fire, as well as the upcoming Spider man noir TV show from the Sony Spider man universe over at Sony. This episode is phenomenal. I love talking to Jay and so know. Check out this episode with J. Martin, cartoonist and storyboard artist, right here on Cape Tights dot com. Enjoy, everyone.
Welcome back to the podcast. Jay, how are you today?
[00:01:11] Speaker B: I'm good, thank you. Justin, how you doing?
[00:01:13] Speaker A: I'm doing wonderful here. We got the Christmas tree set up because, you know, it's right around Christmas time. I mean, this episode will drop in the Christmas season. We are recording this prior to Thanksgiving, but still, it's the season, right? Yeah.
[00:01:25] Speaker B: I mean, I feel like I think people are playing Christmas carols this week. I hear them start to trickle in.
[00:01:32] Speaker A: I'm like, it's one of those things that someone asked me, you know, the other day was like, oh, we watched Planes, Trains and Automobiles where other Thanksgiving movies are there. And I'm like, I don't know, man. I really don't. Couldn't tell you. Like, I think that's about it, honestly.
Unless it's like some pseudo Thanksgiving by Eli Roth that came out, what, last year?
[00:01:50] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:01:52] Speaker A: But like, as a family movie, a movie that you'd sit down with your family and watch is probably not one of those ones unless you have some sort of serial killer family, which is possible, too.
[00:02:00] Speaker B: But yeah, I don't know.
[00:02:04] Speaker A: Yeah, I think they're all.
[00:02:06] Speaker B: Every. It's like Christmas is dominating the holiday movies.
[00:02:09] Speaker A: And that's why I feel like it's okay to jump into the Christmas season a little early because, you know, there's not much to really watch. Oh, there's a Black Friday movie I watched a couple years ago, which is really bad. But there's that.
[00:02:20] Speaker B: What about shopping.
[00:02:21] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a horror comedy.
And, yeah, it's like the people go crazy after a meteor crashes to Earth and, like, a parasite takes over. So. But it's got like a. It's like a.
There's some funny moments about storming a store on Black Friday, as well as people just thinking they're crazy because they're. Because they're crazy shoppers on Black Friday, but really they're, you know, possessed by an alien parasite.
[00:02:51] Speaker B: I like it. I. I'm. I'll check it out. It's like. Like Shaun of the Dead kind of movie.
[00:02:56] Speaker A: It's. It's. But no, but here, let's be honest, Shauna Dead is on an entirely different level, though. Jay. Like, this is not even close to Shaun of the Dead. Sean is a classic.
[00:03:06] Speaker B: They were aiming for Shaun of the Duck.
[00:03:07] Speaker A: Yeah, they were aiming, but they didn't have the actors or the budget or the backing. Okay. So.
Well, I mean, outside of it being Christmas season, holiday season, and so on and so forth, how have you been? I mean, you were on rough about a year ago, a little around there. We were talking Lost Boy. How has Lost Boy been going for you for the past year?
[00:03:31] Speaker B: It's been wild. It's been a. So I did Lost Boy, and then I kind of was able to meet all these different comics people and just start to get involved in making more comics. So I did. I did the book Yellow, which comes out December 17th, and I did. And I started pitching a lot of ideas and sort of meeting other people. And I'm doing a book called the Venetian with Giancarlo Esposito, and.
And that's happening. That's probably going to come out next year.
And the writer on that is this guy named Matt Wheeler, who's amazing and just developing some projects with interesting people. But, yeah, it's been like a whole world of comics.
[00:04:25] Speaker A: Yes. Oh, that's great. I mean, it's one of those things that sometimes it just, you know, obviously you have a history in illustration in comics and comic strips and things like that. If people have listened to the previous episode. We talked about that. But. But getting a graphic novel or comic book out there in the current day and age and getting people to see it, eyes on it and do well, does open up doors in conversations with other people. Like we mentioned before we started recording, you also had that story in head, this Horseman annual, A Little Rabbit, which was phenomenal. And so that came out, obviously, not too long ago. And then you have a book coming out in January on Dark Horse, too, right? Behemoth.
[00:05:02] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, I've got it. This is too many books. I forgot even about.
I don't know.
Behemoth is coming out. Behemoth is amazing.
Yeah, that was a lot of fun.
That was.
Yeah, that one comes out next year. And that is. That is a great story that. When they. That is. Grant Sportore was the. Was the sort of idea generator behind that one, and Dark Horse basically brought it to me. They're like, would you be interested in doing this? And the pitch was so good. I was like, yes. Like, in, like, the one sentence into it, I was like, yes, I'll. That sounds awesome. Like, 100%.
[00:05:49] Speaker A: It's cool because they're from the. They're really mostly from what, the movie and film and TV industry, the writers. And so bringing that to comics is so much fun to see that.
[00:05:59] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, it was cool because. So Ryan Engel is the writer, Grant was the director, and so the idea genesis of it. And they brought me in, and what I did is because none of these guys had done comics before, but I had done comics, and they had never written a comic script before. So I was like, I think there's a way we can do this where we just make the book and we don't have a script and we just hang out. And so we set it up where they. Basically, we all met at my wife's office. She has a great little office in Studio City. And Grant was in for a week from Australia, and Ryan lives there. And. And so we just used the space and we went. We spent about a week, and we just sat around and just kind of. They told me the story, and I would take each scene and sketch it right in front of them. Like, do, like a blue line pencil and be like, okay, here's the first page. Here's the site. And we just put the book together and we got through it. I think it was about a. Yeah, it was about a week of just hanging out and just every day, like, just. Just another, you know, got through the. It ended up being, like, over 100 pages of material. But it was. It was a. It was an interesting experience because there was definitely, like, a learning curve for me. It's like, I'm used to doing my own stuff where it's just like, I'll do it. I kind of have a process where I do things, and then I. Almost to the finished point, and then I look at it and revise it and change it and keep noodling with it, which is probably not A streamlined process.
So with them, it was like. It was me getting. Adjusting to, like, okay, they're going to give me notes. I'm going to give them. Give it back and. But we got. It's funny because, like, I think, like, the first issue went back and forth. Like, there was, like, six versions of it before, it was like, book, and then by the third book, I think there was two versions, and then that was the book. So it was like, we definitely got better at working together, and it ended up being, like. For me, it was a great experience, and I'm excited to do it more. It's kind of what I did on Venetian as well.
[00:08:18] Speaker A: Do you. I mean, your background as a. As a. We're here to talk a little bit more about yellow, but let's just focus on this for a second.
The background as a storyboard artist, does that really also help in that situation? When you're in that one room where you're trying to, like, almost storyboarding with.
[00:08:31] Speaker B: Them, it's just like, it. It's the same thing. It's like. I mean, with the storyboarding it, it's. That's so different. But the idea of drawing right in front of people is something I'm very comfortable with. So that was like. I know I can, like, get, like, a really quick sketch that kind of tells the story of what's happening in the. In the panel or the page quickly and show it to people. They can be like, okay, yeah, that's it. Okay, let's keep moving. So I. Yeah, it was definitely using the storyboard toolbox and applying it to comics.
[00:09:04] Speaker A: It's pretty funny also how, like, the world of comics nowadays, it's like there's so many creators who have never even met, let alone talked on the phone with the creator. They're working with a lot of. It's email, text, things like that, through the publisher or so on and so forth. To have the creators all in one room just seems so asinine in the same sense. Like, it seems so, like, out of the norm, but it also seems like one of the coolest ways to do it, too. It seemed like you guys also just had fun making comics, which is. Which is how it should be, right? I mean, like, yeah, I mean, it was.
[00:09:34] Speaker B: We, like, just. We would just, like, get through it. It was like they had. I mean, they had the whole story. They had the whole outline. They had, you know, a lot of material. So it was like, you know, it was. It was actually. It was really fun. They had done all the hard work before they got to me, then it was like, how do you make this fun and cool and the sort of process.
[00:09:58] Speaker A: That's awesome. And then. And then the comic comes out. I think issue one comes out January 15th, dark horse. As of right now, as we know the publishing world, things change and move around, as we saw with Yellow and the release date for this. But the book is single issues, which is also slightly different. You mentioned the book you're also doing also. But like, that your two books, Lost Boy and Graphic and Yellow, are both graphic novels. So this is single issue. But it seems like they're already done, right? Like, they're basically done.
[00:10:29] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. We treated it like one big story arc. So for me, it was like, it felt the same as it was. And also when I do. Like, when I did Yellow, I did that in just working with my editor, Megan Walker, at Dark Horse. We did it in pieces because it's. It's a pretty big book. So it was like.
We did it in four installments, basically. So I'm used to, like, breaking things down into chapters. So, yeah, it was just. It was the same process.
[00:10:59] Speaker A: It was one of those funny things, too, because, like, Lost Boy is a free, fast story, but it's a. It has a pace to. A brisk pace to it where you can get through it pretty much. When sitting Yellow, I picked it up and was reading the digital copy, I was like, wow, this is a longer than Lost.
There's a little bit more meat in the bones here, too. Like, like I said, I loved the Lost Boy. Lost by was one of my favorite books of last year. And not just because you're on here talking about this, but it actually was in our discussion of comics of the year top 10 thing with my local comic book shop. And so I was absolutely, you know, clamor. The second I heard the Yellow was coming in 2023, I was like, put it on the calendar. Like, okay, gotta get ready to read this. Gotta get ready to read. And then I sat down, like, wow, this is gonna take a little more of my time investment than I thought it was going to.
[00:11:43] Speaker B: Well, you know, when I did Lost Boy, I got a lot of comments that it was a little short, not enough.
Not enough value.
And so when I did Yellow, I was like, well, this story is like, there's more to tell here. So I was like, I'll make.
[00:12:01] Speaker A: Can't make anybody happy.
[00:12:03] Speaker B: Yeah, catch your.
[00:12:04] Speaker A: It's too long now.
It's worth it. The journey was amazing to go on, but, like, yeah, it was kind of Funny. I'm like, you kind of, like, plan out your time. And I'm trying to figure out. I read a lot of times before I go to bed. So it's like, you know, before you either fall asleep or lose the mental capacity to understand what you're reading at some point. And so you try to plan out things. And I have. I have young kids, so it's like, trying to figure out around their bedtimes and all that stuff. And a lot of times I'll read. My son will go to bed, and he'll have me read to him or be next to him in his room. He'll fall asleep. But if I get up, the second he falls asleep, Jay, he wakes back up and goes, where are you going? But you were in a deep sleep there. What the hell just happened? And so for the past couple months or so or six months or so, I've just been sitting next to him for, like, a half an hour and just, you know, making sure that he's asleep. And I'll just have my iPad and reading. And so I was, like, trying to, you know, budget time for different things. I was kind of, like, expecting the length of Lost Boy and got that longer. But then I was like, oh, I have to live in this world for a little longer. Not that I really want to live in the world of Yellow. That seems like a little. That's a little, you know, torture in that sense. But. So Lost Boy and Yellow are two graphic novels that you put out recently or the second one coming out soon. They're different in a sense that. They're different. Completely different stories in that sense. Where did the story for Yellow come from? Where did that originate?
[00:13:27] Speaker B: I think it was. I was. I, like, had this. I wanted. I just, for some reason, had this, like, idea about, like. Like a. Like a coward soldier trying to get out of a war. And I was like, this is so interesting. And I was doing, like, a lot of research about it, and I was just trying to, like, figure out, like, what would be, like, the setting. And then I just got, like, there was all this, like, chatter on the Internet about, like, let's have a civil war and let's. We're done. And I'm like, that seems like a really bad idea. Like. And I was reading this book, I think it was called How Things Fall Apart, kind of about, like, how civilizations crumble and, like, how that all. So it was about research. And then the catalyzing factor was. And all this time, I'm sort of outlining and sketching and trying to like get to the story and if it's worth doing. And I read this book, Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy. Have you ever read that?
[00:14:25] Speaker A: I've not read that, but I've read other Cormac McCarthys and I've heard of it. So.
[00:14:29] Speaker B: Yeah, so it is like, I would call it like an apocalyptic Western because it's about the west, but it's at a time where like there's not really society yet. It's like in between the sort of Native Americans being like devastated and it's like before the sort of American culture and society sort of comes to be. So it's like this lawlessness, chaotic, terrible vision of like what the west probably was really like. And it was like that that's what would happen. That's what the Civil War would be. It would be like horrible, lawless.
And so then I just started like, just doing more research and developing it and I kind of was like, yeah, this is the story I want to tell.
[00:15:20] Speaker A: It's, it's funny too because I. When you see the COVID before even reading the solicitations or anything like that, I'm like, I'm not a huge like World War II or, or like this buff in that sense. Like, I know it's. I know it's history, I know about it and so on and so forth, but I'm not like clamoring to watch war based movies.
However, I am a big dystopian, post apocalyptic, you know, unique style stories like that. And so like where this blends the two of those together. I'm also a big Walking Dead fan. And so I felt like this, like the Walking Deads was a war between, you know, people and zombies. But then it became more of a war against people in the United States, against each other. And obviously this is a little bit different in that sense. But then I'm like, well, that fits in that slot for me that I can actually grab onto and read it and so on and so forth. And I did get that. I felt like that, I don't know, a unique war story that I actually could grab, stick my teeth into. But yeah, that cover with a little. The helmet on and the gun and stuff like that. I immediately was like, oh, this is a World War II. Like, this is not gonna be what I wanted to reading. And then I'm like that. But here's the deal. I also fall in love with creators and so sometimes I'll just read whatever. So I was in it no matter what, Jay. Like there was no question about it. But I was, but I was thinking myself, I'm like, it turned out to be, like I said, it blended a bunch of things together. And I think that that was what's cool about it. I also feel like there's nothing against creative teams that you're going to be working on or you worked on with Behemoth and having writers, you so on and so like a staff of people almost doing these comics together. But there's something to be said where it's like you and Frank and that's it. And I think that to me is like a huge thing to me that you can actually tell the artists also telling the story so that it goes together hand in hand. Like I said, we've talked about it in the past, I think, and I've talked with other cartoonists in the past who do both duties is that there's positives, obviously and negatives because the positives are that you get to work on your own time. You figure it all out. You can edit things along the way. The downside is you don't have the other person to bat to, you know, bad ideas against. Like they were. They're like, hey, what if we do this? Do you, do you find it fun, exciting, stressful to do it all yourself?
[00:17:32] Speaker B: I mean, I like, I like doing it all myself because it's like you, it's very immersive. It's like you're just in this world. It doesn't feel like, it doesn't feel like a job. It feels like a challenge. It feels like, it feels like you're, you're sort of, you're. You're just trying to make something really cool and make something interesting and tell the story in an interesting way. And you're.
Yeah, it's, it is, it is a, it's more of a challenge. But I feel like I do like, you know, there is like Megan Walker at Dark Horse looking at everything and going over the chapters and making sure that it's like cohesive and the story's there. And it's not like, you know, there is like there is that collaboration, but it's not, there's not like a day to day partner like with, you know, like with Behemoth, where it's like we are like sitting there doing every page and looking at it and going, okay, yeah, that works.
[00:18:34] Speaker A: It's just sometimes I feel like there was actually one of my friend creators, Joseph Schmalke, has talked about co creating comic books with some people and the secondary person. The secondary person, he was the writer of the book, the artist, contributed so much to the overall story being told that he actually contemplating, he's actually still contemplating whether or not to just say it's co written by, you know, the per him and the other artists as well as illustrated by the artist. Because there was so much input put in from this co creator that, that he just felt like it made sense to give them the writing credit as well, along with him to make sure that they get the credit that's due. And so there is this camaraderie and this, this, this collaboration between artists and writer. But again, like I said, I don't know for me personally, I, I'm so particular that if I felt like if I did my own comic, I'd want to do it all myself because I'm just like, okay, I, I just know how this is supposed to look. I'm just gonna do it the way I want to do it. And I'm controlling in that sense. That's probably also, you know, a downside. But yeah, I'd want to do it all myself as well.
[00:19:33] Speaker B: I mean there is that, I mean that's, that's undeniable. Like, it is, it's like. But also it's like, then you're second guessing. You're like, was that the right choice? You're like, okay, okay, I gotta do it. You gotta just move forward.
[00:19:48] Speaker A: There is like, if it fails, you have no one to blame it on.
[00:19:52] Speaker B: Yeah, you can't be like, I don't know, man, that writer, really.
But I feel like it is like that is, that is like the fun of the collaboration process because it does like remove a little bit of the, the writing and doing it on your own. There is like, I feel it like a, like, it's like a mountain of self doubt that's like sliding down on you at all times.
And as the writer, you're trying to like escape it.
And the avalanche is like moving and you're like, get me away from this. And it's like it's so hard. It's like, it's, that's the thing is like, and it's, it's funny because it starts out that's not there when you get the idea and you're doing like the first part of it and you're laying it out. You're like, you feel unstoppable, but then it's this thing starts going and then you're just trying to outrun it. I mean, definitely with Yellow, which is like a bigger book, I really felt it like getting through it, I was like, oh God, what have I done? This is like, what am I doing? It's like there is that. It's like. And reading about other writers helps because I think a lot of writers talk about that feeling and it's sort of.
That helps. It's like just reading other writers talking about their process.
That's a thing. And you just gotta keep running, you.
[00:21:28] Speaker A: Know, after going through these two graphic novels and doing this, and now you're obviously doing some single issue stuff. But like, is there a choice? If you ever had to make the choice, whether it be one or the other, I mean, do you enjoy. Not say enjoy more, but like, do you find it more of at home illustrating more than writing, or.
[00:21:45] Speaker B: I mean, I like both. I don't really discern. I mean, writing is like the drawing, the illustrating and the coloring is like, really fun and I enjoy it and I love it, but it is so time consuming. It is like, I mean, it takes months for these books to get made. Like, it's. It's months of work. And it's like when I'm doing these books, when I was doing. I think I was doing Behemoth and Yellow at the same time. I was getting up at like 5:30 in the morning and I would just start the process, start the drawing before the sun came up. And I'd be drawing, you know, all day long until I had to stop and there. And I would stop knowing that there was like a mountain work still to do, like every single day. And it was like.
It was. It was a lot, but it was. It is writing it. You could. I mean, you could write a comic book script in a couple of weeks.
[00:22:41] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I think that's what a lot of people have asked that question to a lot of like, you know, your cartoonist style. People who do both, and they have shifted more into the writing than they have the illustrating is. It's not that they don't want to do either one. It's because they have a mountain of stories that they really, really, really, really, really want to tell. And then if they did the illustrations for all of them, wrote and illustrated everything, that not half of them would never would go untold. And so, like, some of them are like, I just like the idea. And the same, I think, goes for the writers out there who have other people writing their story. And so, like, you know, James Tiny in the fourth is one of them I can think about. Like, he has some skill in the children. He has House of Slaughter, but House of Slaughter, he doesn't write, he has someone else writing that story, even though it's based on his idea. Same thing with the oddly pedestrian life of Christopher Chaos. Tate Bramble is writing that story, even though it's based on an idea that came from James Tiny in the Fourth. And so, like, the idea he has is that I can't write every story because I just don't have the time to write every story. But I want these stories to be out there in the ether. I want people to see that. I want to. I want them to enjoy it. And so by having the ability to do. To just write, I can understand that. But, yes. I mean, at heart, you're a storyteller, if that makes any sense. So, like, whether you're writing it in an illustrator or just illustrator, you're still telling a story, you know?
[00:23:55] Speaker B: I agree.
[00:23:56] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's. Do you feel like this story, Yellow, was important to tell her at this point? Is it scary to tell at this point in the world we live in right now? Was it. Was it. Was it too real? Was it a reflection too much of what we're actually seeing?
[00:24:14] Speaker B: I mean, I was. I was sort of thinking about it like that. I mean, it took a long. I mean, this book took a long time. And it's funny because there was. There was the A24 Civil War movie which came out, and I was like. I was watching the trailer, and I was like, oh, God, this looks a lot like my book.
And then someone wrote a review of my book, like, from an advanced copy, and like, they're like, if you like that a 24 Civil War movie, you'll like this book because it's pretty much same sort of stuff.
[00:24:42] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:43] Speaker B: And I think it's just in the Zeitgeist right now.
[00:24:45] Speaker A: Yes, it is. Yeah.
[00:24:46] Speaker B: People are thinking about this and imagining, like, what. What is that like? And my storyline is. I went the A24 movie. I really enjoyed it. It's. It's like, it is a similar. Very similar world.
And different stories, though.
[00:25:01] Speaker A: Yes. Different story. I see. Right. They are. They are their own. Their own thing. But yeah, you're right. In the Zeitgeist, it's also.
These are fictional. So, like, there is this, you know, bleeding from current societal things, but, like, they're fictional stories. These are not based on true stories. And so do you find. So this kind of story being so, let's say, realistic, but, like, so could be real fun to write, or is it, you know, like, I'm trying to think of, like, how, you know, Writing a book about a superhero is completely, utterly, 100% fictional. Never could be real, so on and so forth. This could be something where like 15 years from now, like, oh, J. Martin produced or predicted the future. Like, I don't know. Does that stress you out?
[00:25:49] Speaker B: I hope people read this book and say like, oh yeah, that would be horrible. Like, what the hell? How am I thinking? Like, this would not be great.
[00:25:58] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:59] Speaker B: Anyone for it? It's.
Yeah. I mean that was. I really enjoyed it because I really. It's. It's one of those things where once you dig into like an idea of, of like what could happen and like, I don't know if I want to. How much to give away, but like there's a plot point of. In this, in this story about sort of people taking advantage of people, other people who are like defenseless in this world and sort of using the scenario like society comes falling down and the. The sort of more opportunistic and people who. With, you know, sort of, you know, sociopaths are like really, you know, taking advantage of it and thinking of how they would do that and how horrible that would be was sort of like. I don't want to say fun, but like it was. It was really interesting to dig into and to like explore that and see how. How would they do that and how would people get out of those situations and how is like, how could anyone stop that? And it's, it. It's like becomes. You realize like. Yeah, without society around us, like, it's a scary place. The world could be really, really scary really quick.
[00:27:21] Speaker A: Yes. I think that's one of the reasons I was saying about the whole Walking Dead comparison in my book. I said there's no zombies in this people. Like, this is not like a. This is not a, you know, zombie apocalypse kind of story, but the, the idea that when society collapses, those people who maybe weren't thriving before found a way to thrive in this in a way by controlling or being horrible human beings. In that sense, they've always been a horrible human being, but they've been able to be this like this exaggerated, crazy worst part of themselves because of it. But I think it's also the opposite of that too, where people have second chances and too. And so, you know, not basically this is not based solely on the book Yellow, but just in general about this type of story is that there's opportunities for people who were like maybe prisoners who got out of jail and now are like helping the homeless and helping the people with misfortunate people. And those kind of things. And so society's collapses aren't always bad, but they're bad. Like it's bad in general. Yes, you're right, but. But it's how people react. And I think that's one of those things that I've always told people about certain stories, whether it be a zombie story or so on and so forth. A lot of these are just vessels to tell another story. And I think that, you know, the idea that it's about the people in Walking Dead, not about the zombies, you know, I mean, how you react when someone, you know, tries to take your family or shoot your family or things like that. But I think those things fall in this exact same situation. And that's where there's like, how do you. How do you follow, how do you protect yourself? How do you protect your family? Especially this main character. Nick's traveling too, from face to face. This is not you just trying to hold back and keep my house safe during this fall of society.
He's going from place to place too.
[00:29:03] Speaker B: Yeah, he's trying to get out of the war. He's like, get me out of here. And he's ill prepared and he's like, I mean, I feel like I'm a coward at heart. And so that character was like, really, like, I would be the worst person prepared for any kind of thing like that.
[00:29:26] Speaker A: Yeah. So I was saying I'd be like, where do I hide? Is there a place for me to hide right now? And hopefully this blows over at some point and I can escape. But like, I'm the same way.
[00:29:36] Speaker B: Yeah, I think I was. So I was like, this character is like, you know, it's like a version of the lost boy character who's like the least equipped to handle the situation.
So yeah, it was fun to put that person into that story because it's like, I mean, Walking Dead does it really well, because they have many, many characters. So you can have the leader and the tough guys and also these kind of guys. But this was a book where it's like, okay, let's just take one of those. Yes, Scared, like sort of, you know, cowardly and you know, try to give this person a redemption arc in, in a way that like would. Would make sense to that person.
[00:30:24] Speaker A: He also only kind of reminds me that I was reading the beginning, like the way he looks and the wish, the way character he is, like if Steve Rogers didn't get the super serum, like this is like the body type and like the just this puny little guy, like trying to Trying to, you know, act like he's tough or something like that, and then really being like, I don't. This is crazy because I also feel like you mentioned the whole, like, being a coward. I feel like 90% of the people who are like, I defend my house. If the. If the society collapsed and da, da, da, da, da, I'd go to war. Would not. I think it's all talk. I think most of them wouldn't actually sit there and do it. However, we did see January 6th a couple of years ago that. That people did. Actually, the talk wasn't just talk at that point, but. Yeah, no, I think most people would be cowards. And I think that's okay because I feel like the less people fighting, the better off I'd be if people weren't fighting around me. I want everybody around me. Let's just hunker down during the fall of society about that. Sound good? I think. I mean, you look like you're in a nice place there to hunker down in. Right there. I don't know. Looks nice.
[00:31:24] Speaker B: Yeah. This is New Mexico.
[00:31:26] Speaker A: So there you go. I'm just going to come out and see you, Jay.
[00:31:28] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:31:28] Speaker A: How about that? The problem is I'd have to be. I'd have to be Nick and I'd have to travel across the country to get.
[00:31:33] Speaker B: Get.
[00:31:34] Speaker A: That's like. They wouldn't know. That wouldn't work. I'd end up. I'd end up living out the story of this, of this, of this graphic novel. No, but it's a. It's. It's. To me, you. You have this way. And I don't know if I'm the only one that sees it or. I'm sure there is, but the way of telling stories like Lost Boy and this had some similarities in that you have a certain way of telling stories. It's got a little, like, you know, DNA in there of you, and it's probably the artwork mixed with the story, in my opinion, Standing with, honestly, with Little Rabbit. And I'm hoping that translates over to a story that you're not fully writing, like Behemoth. But they're, they're, they're. I hate to say they're fun because they're not. There's a seriousness to them, but they're. They're in entertainment and they're enjoyable. And I think that's what's fun about these two books, Yellow and. And Lost by. Like I said, if anybody knows this podcast, Lost Boy was up there for one of my favorite books of last Year. So I'm hoping that as people start to read, you know, it won't. Yellow won't be in contention this year. It's too. At least too late in the year. It can't be like, you gotta like awards season. Yes, awards season. However, December 17th and 18th, 17th at bookstores and teeth at comic book shops is not too late for a Christmas present, though. You notice that right there's nice right in that sweet spot where people are buying Christmas presents. So you have a person out there who's into alternate realities in a sense of a civil war based in the United States and a second civil war with fall. Society is going on, and a person's using their, you know, basic instinct to try to, you know, to rise above or. Or stay below, to cower or to fight, you know, choose between good and evil. This book right here, Yellow, is worth. Worth checking out because I think in a world where people maybe aren't. If you have a friend or a family that's not solely into comics, a nice long graphic novel might be the perfect gift because it's. It's all there. You don't have to worry about going back to the shop and getting issue two or three or four. It's all right in front of you.
[00:33:30] Speaker B: Thank you, man. That's.
[00:33:31] Speaker A: Yes, it's a. It's a great story. Like I said, I want to. I don't want to spoil it. And that's the problem. We're trying to do these things and discuss this with creators, you know, on a podcast ahead of releases, because, you know, I like to promote the book. So, like, the idea of getting it out there so people know about it, but then also, like, spoiling it. It's like, I don't want to spoil anything for anybody all to be surprised. And I think we gave just enough away. But you have. This book comes out December 17th and 18th. You have lost Way available right now. You've got Behemoth coming in January, but you're also working on storyboarding still, is that correct?
[00:34:02] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm doing the storyboards on a TV show right now called Spider Noir when it's, you know, the character from the Spider Verse movies and from, like, the Marvel graphic novels, the Spider man noir.
So it's a. It's Nicholas Cage starring as Spider man in this alternate 1930s universe.
But I can't give much away about it.
[00:34:34] Speaker A: No, no, it's awesome.
It sounds like. It sounds like a fun experience. I mean. Well, funny thing is to me, too, I don't know anybody I I just realized the other day the only other TV show that Nicholas Cage is done and this is one of those weird hybrid things because streaming. Is it a TV show? Is it not a TV show kind of thing? But the only other TV he did this. The history of swear words TV show in history. She don't think it was. Oh really? Yeah. But he doesn't do TV shows. And that's where I thought it was like he really wanted to play this character. This is pretty cool, but obviously you don't have no insight into that. But I'm saying like it's so cool that he really wanted to continue playing Spider Man Noir, which he voiced for people don't know in the animated movies like you mentioned.
But he's never really been in TV shows. He's like, I'm a film actor, I play film characters. I don't need to do TV shows. And so it's, there's obviously more money in films than there is in TV shows. But they short TV shows. If you're a long term TV show host or player, you can you make some money. But yeah, it's really cool to see that. He must love playing Spider Man Noir so much that he's willing to do this streaming show for the Sony Spider man universe, which is pretty badass in my opinion.
[00:35:37] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's going to be amazing. I can't wait to see what people think of it because it's so just, it's just a crazy, it's just a wild concept. I mean, you know the concept, you know what, what the vibe is. It's, it's awesome.
[00:35:51] Speaker A: So is this something that you've done? You did or are you currently like, they, they still contacted you and say hey, we need some storyboards for this, this, this TV show we're doing. Or is it something that you're like, you've done the storyboarding and now it's over?
[00:36:01] Speaker B: No, it's in, it's, they're shooting it now. So I like literally this afternoon I'm going to be meeting with the, the directors and doing some more scenes.
[00:36:11] Speaker A: That's, that's, that's crazy.
That's a different. So it's kind of funny. I mean, I mean are there very many comic creators out there that are also doing stuff like this? I mean, is this, it seems like a, a cool blend of, of worlds for you?
[00:36:24] Speaker B: I mean I came from story when this was something I've always done and, and it's, it's something I, I really enjoy doing because it's it's kind of blending both like, the film and the drawing together, and it's, it's fun to do, like, cool projects and, and see it come to life.
[00:36:47] Speaker A: Is, is storyboarding, is that something nowadays? I mean, with the technology? Is, are you doing it digitally? Are you doing on physical paper?
[00:36:55] Speaker B: Like, how, what's the, I mean, I do it the same way I do the comics.
[00:36:59] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:37:00] Speaker B: I, I, I draw on a Cintiq, which is like one of the big tablets, but I'll sketch, I'll sketch everything out on pencil, on paper, and then I'll do the, like, inks and color the shading on the Cintiq. But I mean, with the storyboarding.
Yeah, that's, that's, it's basically the same technique. Okay, Were you going to talk about, like, the, the AI of things like that?
[00:37:29] Speaker A: No, I don't want to. I do, I don't like, I don't like touching the word.
[00:37:33] Speaker B: Well, no, people are, a lot of people in, in this business are worried about that. And I think it's like, I don't know. I don't, I don't think it's gonna take the place of like, what it, what storyboarding is, is like, you could say, like, it's, it's, I think it's less about like making these frames than it's like being able to have a conversation about what you might do in a scene. Like, if you're a director, it's like being able to see stuff when there's no stakes. Like, what is a wide angle? Let's do this. Or would a close up be good here? And you can like, as a director, working with storyboard artists is like a little playground where you can safely, without being judged, without the actors and the producers and anyone saying, like, is that what you're gonna do? It's like you can see all these options and, and play with it and, and kind of like in real time, just like see all these things and be able to talk to the storyboard artist. And, and it's, I think it's like, it's like a, you know, it's a session. It's like a therapy session for coming up with a scene. So I don't know that it's like, I don't know. I don't know if that aspect of it is easily replaced.
[00:38:51] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't. And there's a human element. I mean, there's human element to everything because not only are they telling you something, but you have to then decipher what they're saying to you and then draw it. And so I feel like when people even mess around with doing AI stuff on the Internet, just like, oh, it's just because a lot of the fringe people who are not trying to use it to their advantage just want to screw with it. You know what I mean? They just want to be like, oh, this is crazy. A computer could do this. And not. And they're innocent to the fact that they don't know the history, the implications behind what AI can do, and so on and so forth. And so they're still relying on a computer to spit out something from potentially pre manufactured ideas. And so like you having to be able to be like, I want Spider man to be doing this so and so forth, you can then take it and go, okay, his arm goes this way. Or, you know, I mean, like, you are. You're still using your human brain and getting what they expected you to see or what they maybe didn't even know they wanted to see on a storyboard.
[00:39:46] Speaker B: I think it's. It's also like the level of specificity you get with a human component is like, it's like you can get exactly what you want. You can say, no, this, like, this. You don't have to like.
I think it's just at this point, I think humans are faster.
[00:40:04] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:40:05] Speaker B: Getting.
[00:40:05] Speaker A: And you won't get a random finger on the top of a head or something like that too.
[00:40:08] Speaker B: Right. Hey, you don't.
[00:40:10] Speaker A: Why does Spider man have six arms?
I mean, do you. I mean, so you storyboarded for the amazing Spider Man 2 as well? So, like, is this just another. How did you get this job? I know that's weird to say, but, like, I mean, was it just because you worked on Spider man before or.
[00:40:28] Speaker B: So a very close friend of mine is the showrunner. I've known him for a long time, and when I heard he was getting the job, I was like, oh, my God, please put my hat in the ring. And so he, he let me, like, interview with the director of the pilot and we like, hit it off on Zoom. And so I got the job that.
[00:40:48] Speaker A: See, there you go. You. But I do.
[00:40:51] Speaker B: I mean, I've done a lot. Yeah, it wasn't like, I've done a lot of storyboards.
[00:40:59] Speaker A: Yes.
But what's kind of funny is I always, like when people are talking about future upcoming guests and things that are on the podcast and there's things you can say. Like I could say, oh, lost Flight. Great, great, great, great graphic novel. You really should read it. It's got another one coming up called Yellow, which is phenomenal. Or I can talk about Behemoth and say, new single issue comic coming out in January, so on and so forth, but they're all like, cool. And then I'm like, well, he's doing storyboards for Spider Man. He's like, oh, yeah, that's awesome. And I go. And then the one I hang my hat on the most is that. Oh, he directed the hey, hey There Delilah music video.
And they're always like, oh, yeah, I can connect to that one. And I'm like, see, look at that. Like, it's one of those weird things that's like, I don't know. I mean, obviously Shawn Mendes and all those other artists you've worked with too. I just think it's kind of funny. To me, it's the hey There Delilah music video that. That. That just always sticks with me. I don't know why. I mean, it's. I don't know.
[00:41:47] Speaker B: It's a. It's a classic.
[00:41:49] Speaker A: It is. But I just think it's kind of funny because it's also from, like, what, 20 years ago now?
[00:41:53] Speaker B: Yeah, right? I bet it was 20 years ago. Yeah.
[00:41:57] Speaker A: I'm actually looking right here. 2006.
[00:41:59] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:42:00] Speaker A: 2006. It came out for that. For that song. But, yeah, it's just kind of funny. And I also. We. We talked about it last time you were on too, about, like, how, like, people. I don't think that many people out there realize that someone's directing these music videos. They just happen for some reason. It's like. It's like letterers, in my opinion, where people just think those letters just appear on the. On the. On the comic book page. They don't realize that there's an actual person doing that. And so same thing with music videos. They don't. I think they're so focused on the music or the hot girls in the music that they don't realize. They don't realize that someone's actually there directing the film as well. It's a film. It's still. It's still a film.
But, yeah, that was kind of cool. And I think, like I said, your illustration background allows you to do some multiple things. And I think for me personally, it would invigorate my mind a little bit to be able to, like, do comics, do graphic novels, to do storyboarding, those kind of things. Because you. You're. I think you're flexing similar muscles, but separate muscles, if that makes any sense.
[00:42:52] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, the. The storyboarding is like, it's more like it's someone else's driving, so it's a little bit, like, less stressful. It's more like, oh, this is fun. Like. Like, let's go.
And then the comics is like, also the comics. You gotta draw a lot better storyboards.
[00:43:12] Speaker A: It's more of a fitted. It's a polished finished product. That's.
That's the creator. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:43:17] Speaker B: Really, like, loose and. And. And kind of like, that's part of the fun of it is like, you know, just sort of making something quick and. And just tells the. The tells what happens in the frame. But you don't have to, like, you know, if it's a little, you know, sloppy or quick or sketchy, that actually I think is better in a storyboard. It's like, it feels less like, I don't know, nailed down. Makes everyone feel more comfortable.
[00:43:47] Speaker A: Do you watch the. Go. Go watch the series or any of the movies you've done in the past or shows you've done in the past? You storyboard? Or do you go. And also. I know where you're like, wait, I drew that. Like, do you ever. Like, is there ever, like, a moment where you're like, now I get to see it in real life, what my story looked like?
[00:44:02] Speaker B: It's always like, I love looking at movies. Like, movies that I've storyboarded. Like, I don't know, like, I'll watch like, I'm Legend or Constantine or something. Like, movies that, like, I'm. And I'll be like, oh, yeah, like, I remember. I'll remember, like, the. The whole thing. Like, I remember when I drew the frame or when the director was talking about it, and, like, it's really. It's like a warm feeling, I think, to watch those for me and think about, like, you know, we're the greatest showman or something like that. It was weird. I was. My kid was doing a recital.
My daughter is, like, 12, and she was. They were singing one of the songs from Greatest Showman. And it was funny because, like, I just remembered drawing all the pictures for the scene where they sang that song. And I wasn't even thinking of the movie. I was, like, thinking of drawing the pictures of the scene when I was watching her sing.
[00:45:00] Speaker A: So I thought you were going to say that you were doing. You storyboarded their performance for them so they would. They would have an idea.
[00:45:05] Speaker B: You better stand right there.
[00:45:08] Speaker A: Hold on a second. Let me see if you're in frame.
She's like. She's like, dad, you're Taking it way too seriously. Okay, this is not. But no, that's pretty funny. I could see that because, like, you mentioned, like, a finished product. You get to see the finished product of a book you've illustrated before anybody else. Right. Because obviously you're finishing everything art wise. I mean, because obviously lettering is a lettering pass and so on and so forth. But like, when you finish a drawing for your. A page or a panel, it's like you're the first person to actually see that completed. If you're doing a storyboard, you don't get to see the completed product. So basically everybody else does, or at least close to what everybody else does. Someone else has to shoot that and enact that and so on and so forth. So it's kind of cool that you put effort into it, but you actually get to see the finished product until later. That's not even your finished product. It's just you helped facilitate that finished product, if that makes any sense.
[00:45:58] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, sometimes I'm. I'm on set for the project, so I'll see it being shot, which is fun.
But yeah, yeah, I won't see it until it's on.
[00:46:09] Speaker A: On wherever. Yeah, that's. It's, it's. It's a cool. I don't know, it's like you're one of those. It's like the people who cut trailers, I'm always, like, fascinated with, like, their job. Because first of all, I'm always like, how the hell did you get that job? Like, that's such a cool job, in my opinion, because a lot of faith goes into that. Like, that person. Like, a finished cut of a movie is one thing, but, like, getting someone to. It's the first time all of us as viewers and consumers judge a movie. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's the first time we all look at a thing and you see the Spider man noir trailer and we're always like, oh, that's going to stink, or that's going to be awesome, or, you know, like, whatever it may be, we judge immediately. And so those trailers, I feel like, sometimes are hard for people to get right. And so it's like these weird. There's jobs for so many various people. And I think not until you actually talk to someone where you're like, someone's actually a storyboard artist. There's actually someone who sits behind a tablet and draws these things out. It's pretty badass, in my opinion.
[00:47:03] Speaker B: Oh, that's very sweet.
Yeah. The storyboard artists, the unsung heroes of Pre production.
[00:47:12] Speaker A: Yes, it's true. But there's also one of those things that, like, just like comics down to the people who were sending files to the printer to get printed. There are so many people you don't know about that go into the creation of things, including editors. Like, you mentioned Megan as an editor. Sometimes people just. It just goes over the head. It's a finished product. They read it. They don't. They don't even care that you wrote it, Jay, or illustrated. They just want to read the product. And that's the thing. And so there's a lot of unsung heroes, I think, in the art world.
[00:47:41] Speaker B: I definitely think the letterers. I don't think people realize, like, if they saw the books with the temp lettering versus with, like, Frank's lettering.
[00:47:51] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:47:52] Speaker B: Like, that is a huge thing for me. Like, it's like, that's when the book comes to life. Like, it's not when I. Yeah. Send it in. It's when I get it back with his letters on it, then it feels like a real book.
[00:48:04] Speaker A: Is it now one of those things that you won't work on a book unless Frank's lettering it? Or is that.
[00:48:08] Speaker B: I mean, I love. I. I can't imagine anyone doing it better. He's awesome. He's like. He's super chill. He's always really not. I've, like, I've had nothing but, like, yeah. Good times with him. Knock on what he's.
[00:48:21] Speaker A: I mean, he's freaking busy right now too, so there's that too, though. So, like, it's one of those things, like squeezing your book into a time that Frank has time to actually letter a book also matters. Nowadays, it says it's when you get this talented outlet.
Like I said, it's an extension of the writing. It's an extension of the artist in that sense, too, because you've got to letter the words the script is being written and then also letter around your panels and so on and so forth. It is an unsung talent.
But, yeah, it's a crazy world you live right now. I think it's fun. And I think that you're continuing to excel, in my opinion, in the comic creation and the graphic novel creation. And I'm excited to see what you do next for storyboarding as well.
You can get lost by right now. People can go buy it right now. Go buy Lost Boy. Right? I mean, that's. That's the number one thing, in my opinion. I got a copy right here. Lost Boy Yellow comes out.
[00:49:14] Speaker B: Hard copy of Yellow.
[00:49:15] Speaker A: No, no, they didn't. No, they don't. They don't think of me like that. No kidding. Caitlin's amazing. Over at Dark Horse. They haven't. Look at that.
[00:49:24] Speaker B: I've got a hard copy they gave me.
[00:49:26] Speaker A: Look at that. It's done. It's ready to go. It's ready to be in your hands. It's like twice as thick as Lost Boy. So, you know, someone tries to break into your house, you can defend your house off with it.
[00:49:36] Speaker B: Yeah, with the yellow. Throw the yellow at them.
[00:49:40] Speaker A: But no, that's available December 17th at your local bookstore. And that's a big thing to me, in my opinion. And that's one thing that always hammer home to those people who potentially don't even know where their local comic book store is. If you're thinking about getting this kind of thing with for your friend, family, whatever, for Christmas, go to your local bookstore, because they can get it. It's part of the book market as well. But also local comic book shops will get it the 18th. So December 17th at bookstores, 18th at.com bookshops. The way the publishing world works, new comics come out on Wednesday, new books come out on Tuesday. And so there's. That's cool. It's available, readily available, and I recommend buying local.
But if you don't have a local store, you can also go to bookshop.org you can buy it through there, which helps support local bookstores. And then if you can't, my thing was just big emphasis on just buying the damn book. So go to Amazon if you have to buy the book, because that's just, you know, the easiest way to get it is Amazon. That's fine to me, in my opinion.
But yeah, I appreciate you coming on, taking the time out to discuss your stuff and so much more. We'll have you back on in the future. Does that sound good to you?
[00:50:43] Speaker B: That sounds great. It was great chatting with you.
[00:50:45] Speaker A: Always fun, always a pleasure, and happy New Year and all that stuff. And we'll talk in 2025 at some point. Sound good?
[00:50:53] Speaker B: I love it. I love it. Thank you so much.
[00:50:55] Speaker A: Thanks, Jay.
[00:50:55] Speaker B: Have a great day.
