[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to the Capes and Tights podcast right here oncapes&tights.com I'm your host, Justin Soderbergh. This episode, we welcome cartoonist Patrick Horvath to the podcast to discuss his comic Beneath the Trees where Nobody sees over at IDW Publishing. It was the number two selling trade paperback behind Spider man in 2024, September 2024 this year, and the single issues flew off the shelf. It's a phenomenal book that has been described as Dexter meets Richard Scarry. So we talked that, we took a bunch of stuff. Patrick talked about his history and comics and so much more right here on the Caves and Captain Tights podcast. But before you listen, follow us on Blue Sky, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, all that stuff, YouTube, all those of there, subscribe, rate, review, all that stuff are on Spotify and Apple. And Visit
[email protected], for so much more information, reviews, you know, and so much more over there. But this is Patrick Horvath, writer, artist of Beneath the Trees. There Are Nobody Sees over at IDW Publishing. Enjoy, everyone.
Welcome to the podcast. How are you today, Patrick?
[00:01:08] Speaker B: I'm doing terrific, thank you very much.
[00:01:10] Speaker A: That's great. It's a great. I could just mention before we started recording, it snowed this week. So there's snow here in Maine. I'm sure it's a little bit different from where you are, but it's cold here.
[00:01:20] Speaker B: Yeah. I am in Los Angeles and it is the exact opposite of that right now. You have my condolences. That sounds pretty. Well, I mean, I feel like at this point there's still, even though I'm sure probably way too much snow right now that you're dealing with. But it still has its own charms, especially before January. And then after, like, especially after January, you're just kind of like, no more, please. And then you still probably get another couple months of it.
[00:01:47] Speaker A: Yes. With climate change over the past few years and things like that. My wife and I were talking, we're saying it's so funny how, like, it's more apt to snow on Easter in May now that it is on Christmas, and the fact that we've had two snowstorms prior to Christmas, I go, we've got a few weeks left here. But, like, I'm pretty sure we're getting some sort of heat wave and rainstorm so that this. You can see grass again on Christmas. Just wait. No, just wait for it. I mean, it's gonna happen.
[00:02:08] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, it's. We're off book right now. I feel like. So that. That. That all tracks.
[00:02:16] Speaker A: Yeah, it does, it does. But it's a fun. It's a. It's a. It's a fun place to be here in Maine. I'm secluded. It's nice. It felt like. That does sound nice. But it's, you know, it's cold out right now, and it's not even as cold as it's gonna be, which is sad. I've lived most of my life in Maine and I still complain about the weather, but that's what we do here in Maine. Anyways.
[00:02:37] Speaker B: Part of the pastime.
[00:02:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Part of how life goes. But welcome. I'm so glad you took the time out to join us here on the podcast. We're big fans of Beneath the Trees, and so I'm really excited to talk to you about this. But let's just. How did you get into drawing and writing and wanting to be in the world of comics in the first place? Let's go back a little bit.
[00:02:58] Speaker B: Sure.
So going all the way back, I started drawing when I was probably like four or five.
Had a really big interest in monsters, which was pretty fun. And I was even doing like rudimentary, like, comics back then that were essentially like one page panels with a caption of something going on.
And then my mom would help type that out on a typewriter, like on the drawing that I did. And then so my mom was doing the lettering and then we would put them together and she would buy how, like, help me bind them. I mean, she's basically doing with the work. Bind them in like these little homemade books. And then. And they were like super rudimentary. Like, there would be like, you know, it would be like me and my friend going to the park and then we ran into Superman in the flash. Or it'd be like, it was like, there's one. There's like a tea party at the monster house. And we're all just getting the, like, we're all gab. It's a whole comic. It's just everybody coming. So it's like, you know, Frankenstein, monster, and like, there's an electric monster. I came up with like a Dracula and like all this stuff and myself included. And we all gather at like this monster house to have like a tea party. And that was basically. And then we get there. That's the end. So it was stuff like that. And then I, in like getting into like high school and middle school, I started doing like actual comics, just my own little whatever panels.
Very simple. And then around, I even think, like, around like high school I did a. Oh like maybe like a 30 page something comic that I just did myself. I didn't. I literally just like penciled it and inked it and then I, I just had it and that was the thing I would pass around to friends to read. Literally the original thing and then that. And I never like photocopied it or anything. This is so. This is like 95, 96, something like that.
And at that point I was into comics but.
But I was even kind of on my way out of comics. Like I got in around the speculator boom around 92. And a little prior I had friends that were handing me like their, you know, it was definitely like McFarlane, like Spider man stuff they were passing around or like, or the first comic I think I got was from that same group of friends and I got a Wolverine jungle adventure that Mignola drew, which is an awesome book.
And. And so that was like. And then. Yeah, and then I got heavy into Image books and stuff like that. And then that was sort of waning and I was still kind of making my own stuff. And then I. Around 98 or so 97, I was like, I want to, I want to make movies. Like I really thought I wanted to just direct movies and that's it. And so I also grew up in Iowa and so I thought if I had. Was ever going to have any chance of making a movie, I really had to like do nothing but movies. Like I just had to like sleep, eat and breathe movies.
So. And I didn't have, I mean I went to like the University of Iowa film program which was scrappy but had. Was really heavy on theory, which was actually great. And all the production stuff was largely do it yourself. So you learned how to do almost everything. And it wasn't super technical. It was basically like here's how it works. Here's. Here's how you can like and this is all films before HD existed or anything. So it was like, here's how you shoot on films. Here's how you develop. Like if you want to develop it yourself, you can do this or you can send it out here. This is what you do once you get it back and you get the work print. Here's how you cut it on like a flatbed. Like here's how you make the audio. Audio was all real to reel. And then you would, and then you would put it together basically in like an ab roll with the negative and then send it all off and get it back. The answer print and all that stuff. And then, like, so it was. It was rudimentary, but we knew how to do it from, like, top to bottom. And then the thing that was kind of cool about it is that it basically just really instilled, like, if you want to make something, like, just go out and make it, which I definitely liked. And I thought that. And then, you know, subsequently, like, went out, spent some time in Chicago after college, and then ended up in la.
And. And I made, like, a very small, teeny, tiny feature in Chicago that almost nobody has seen, but I basically bought a couple of bolexes and made it. And with a very tiny group of people, a couple actors, and, like, a friend doing sound like for a couple days. And then, like, some people helping out with lights. And that was about it. And then. But it was very educational. And then ended up moving to la and then made a couple of. And then started making, like, features in LA, like, all independent horror stuff. After I moved to LA.
And then around 2010, I started, like, after the second feature I had worked on out here that I'd written and directed on with a friend.
It was sort of. We were trying to find a home for that movie. And there's always, like, a bit of depression after projects where, like, you. You're just kind of at the end of something and you're, like, sad to sort of see it go, but you're happy it's done, but you don't know what's next. And it was in that moment that I was like, I miss drawing. I miss drawing. Like, I hadn't been drawing for, like, probably a decade at that point. Maybe a little more. And so other than, like, really rudimentary storyboards and stuff, so I literally just, like, was like, I'm gonna draw every day. So I started drawing and really trying to actually, like, I never took classes beyond high school, so I just started in, like, you know, let's. I should probably figure out anatomy. Like, let's start working on perspective, like, totally rudimentary stuff. And then I probably a little bit into that I had gotten back into comics as well, like, off and on in the decade prior. And friends were basically putting, like, really cool books in my hand to be like, you need to check this out. I mean, like, really, like, basic stuff too. Like, if you ever heard you haven't read Watchmen, read Watchmen. You know, like, here's Hellboy. You should read Hellboy. And it was like, oh, yeah, yeah, this is awesome. This is great. I was connecting the dots between people and, you know, was reading Sin City. And then people were like, well, you should read like his run. You haven't read Batman Year One. Like, read that. Like, read, you haven't read his run on Daredevil. Read that. And like, you know, different stuff. Like, I was just slowly filling in my comics education then also getting into like Jean Giraud, you know, Mobius stuff as well and like checking out stuff in the Franco Belgian world and then also manga. Like really just like finally diving into it. Like reading Lone Wolf, Cub, like all this stuff. So.
And then I was like, I should make comics. Like, I don't. Like, I mean, I never thought, I never imagined it would be anything other than I likened it to like being in a band. And as I was slowly discovering, it was the same thing as like making movies on your own. Like, you can make movies that get all across the world now. Like, it's not. Listen, it ain't easy. But yes, comparatively speaking, like, it's not that hard to make a movie that you can get distributed worldwide. It might not. It could even get in a couple theater. Like we made a movie for like 12 grand that was called Entrance. And we got that thing picked up by IFC Midnight. And it got out in the world. You know, we didn't see a lot of money from it. Like, that's the thing. Like, you can't make a ton of money, generally speaking, off those things.
Usually there's going to be like a threshold you cross and then it's like a lot. There's a whole different ballgame.
I don't know what that world is, but I was happy making horror films. And I basically likened it to being in a band, especially post, you know, Napster. Like, you're probably not going to make a living being in a band, but if you want to make art, like be in a band, like, you know, if you want to make comics, make a comic. And again, it was that DIY thing that I really loved that I was like, well, the barrier is so low.
Anybody can do this. Like, I mean, like getting it from, you know, having a publisher pick it up was obviously a lot trickier. But that wasn't, that didn't. If you didn't. If they didn't pick it out, you could just print it yourself. You could literally make zines. You could do whatever. Like, it's so.
[00:11:00] Speaker A: It's so you can make one copy and hand it out to everybody.
[00:11:03] Speaker B: Yeah, you can literally just draw on like 30 pages and hand it around to your friends. They can read it. So the, the idea of doing that came around 2012 probably. And then I was actually like doing pitches and stuff to publishers around by like 2016, 2017. And I had worked on some small self published stuff. Like I worked on Josh Trujillo, who's a writer. Reached out to me. No, no, no. I reached out to him I think on Craigslist. And he was actually offering a page rate which was like incredible because nobody was. And I worked on. I did a segment for his anthology called Love Machines that he self published. And then, and then I worked on just some, just small stuff, my own stuff also I think it was finally. And the whole time I'm drawing like every day and I'm putting stuff up on Instagram. And then Debbie Maxwell Prince reached out after seeing my art and was like, would you want to do a cover for Ice Cream Man? And I was like, yes, I would. That would be incredible. And that was a great experience. And then he, after that had asked if I'd be interested in doing interiors for issue for this anthology on sad clown stories he was doing called Haha. And that's how that came together.
And he essentially wrote a script to my strengths of stuff. He loves See Me Draw. And I was like, this is like a dream come true. Thank you.
And then around that time, a little prior, I also had done this self published thing called Free for All.
That was just for me to have an example of more recent sequential work and to also just practice some storytelling, make a comic, you know, just again, like anybody can go and make your own comic if you want. I mean like. And Daniel Warren Johnson was also an inspiration just in terms of like space mullet. Like yeah, just. Do you know what I mean? Like that he, he was definitely one of them. Like when I was getting heavy duty back into comics, was like a rising star that had caught my attention and was really. His work is just, you know, very cool. And the whole deal was great. So I was just like, yes, okay, this is what I should be doing. And then slowly, like this stuff kind of started happening so randomly. I worked on Southbound, which was another horror anthology movie that I wrote and directed on.
The distributor for that was the Orchard.
[00:13:32] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:13:32] Speaker B: And Paul Davidson was working with the Orchard. And then he ended up over at idw.
And then he ended up showing my work to Mark Doyle, who was at IDW at the time. And that's how that. And then all of a sudden I was talking to them and they're like, do you have any pitches? And I was like, I do.
And so then that's Just how that happened, that's insane. So that is the story of like age 4 to here we are of like how.
[00:14:05] Speaker A: That's it, everybody have a good night and goodbye.
No, that's amazing. I want to touch back on that, that just do it. So first of all, that's how I started the podcast, right? Kevin Smith, you know, comedian, comic book writer, movie writer, film director, all that Stu, once on a podcast, just basically said if you want to start a podcast, just frickin do it. Just like get the equipment, start making it, start talking to a microphone and go on from there. And that's what got me started. The other one was my dad used to, used to get mad at us as kids. Like I'm 38 years old, so this is probably about 20 years ago when we started just recording music in our garage and making like actual quality sounding recordings that we just put on the Internet and stuff. And my dad was like, we had to like carve out a time a week and spend thousands of dollars to go into a studio to get a somewhat okay recording on a cassette tape. And you guys can like record a song on a weekend and put it on the Internet and have people listening to it already. I'm like, yep, it's awesome. Yeah.
[00:15:00] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's. Yeah and it's the same. And another thing I didn't mention on too is that like in high school and college and well after college, like it also was in bands because it was another just way to make art basically. Like I love music and, and it was just another like the, the threshold has gotten so low for all that stuff. And I mean like in the late 90s I was like, I mean I would be messing around with like a four track cassette recorder and like, and doing stuff that way. But I mean like now it's just so. It's exactly what your dad said. Like it's so cool how low those thresholds are.
[00:15:37] Speaker A: I talked about it on our episode 200 with Leona Kangas. But when I first started this podcast is about episode 12. I had Dana Snyder on voice actor for Master Shake on Aqua Teen Hunger.
[00:15:48] Speaker B: Oh yeah.
[00:15:49] Speaker A: And he was at a convention I was at and he got a call to be on a. To record audio for a show and he needed equipment. So he used my equipment for that to like heart like to use the Internet to talk to him in California and do this recording. And again it was the same thing where he was like, I didn't need to fly to California. There was. You had the equipment in front of You. We went into a room that made the sound pretty good, and then we busted out some lines and recorded a segment on my equipment. So it was just kind of funny how easy it is in that sense. And comics is the same way. I think the hardest part, like you mentioned, is getting it in front of publishers or getting it published, Massively published. You're talking. If you just want to publish it with your friends or, I mean, things like Zoop or Kickstarter or crowdfunding things, you can make that happen too. But the most difficult part in comics is getting publishers to pick it up and actually publish it.
[00:16:36] Speaker B: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And there's so much. There's just so much good comics, like, in the world right now. Like, it's. I'm constantly floored by what's coming out, and I'm always. It. I mean, it's. It. It's great. I'm not gonna say anything bad about that.
It does make it challenging, though. Like, it's just challenging to, you know, get anybody to look at your stuff, which is part of the reason why I was so. I'm still sort of reeling from how well Beneath the Trees has been received, just because I didn't. That was not in my, like, estimation of how this year was going to go or anything like that. I mean, it was like, incredible.
[00:17:23] Speaker A: You got published by idw, Obviously. Not just any publisher, too. A pretty reputable publisher that people having those three letters on a comic book of yours is something that people strive for. How long ago did you write actually, though? Like, the first issue of Beneath the.
[00:17:37] Speaker B: Trees, I wasn't until I literally just came to them with a pitch. Okay, so it was. I had four pitches and Beneath the Trees was one of them. And then editorial was like, ooh, like, we, like, we like this one. Please send us everything on this. Like, give us the outline. Give us some character sketches, please. And so then I put together the outline, you know, the A to Z of the whole. What the. At the time, I thought it was going to be five issues, actually. Originally I thought it was going to be like a five chapter graphic novel because that's what Mark had been talking to me about.
And then. So that's what I turned in. And they were like, immediately just assumed it was for issues because the breaks worked really well. And so then. And I was all for that. And then they also gave me the latitude to do an extra issue. So it was basically like, we want to put it. Change it from five to six, just because usually, like, that's kind of the nice round number they were looking for and to give the story time, you know, a little more room to breathe.
And then that ended up becoming like, issue three, if anybody's curious, for Beneath the Trees. But the.
It was, you know, pretty. Like, it was one of those things where in my life, like, I've had a couple projects that have sort of come together in this way where you're like, I think this is going to happen. And like, at that point I was like, this looks super duper promising. Like, it was. Their enthusiasm for it was right off the bat.
And I. I mean, and they were. I mean, the whole time, like, do you have to, you know, you have to put together the outline. You have to like, also put together, like a way to pitch it for them to pitch it. Like, the. A big thing is to like, whenever you're giving. I mean, my only advice to people trying to pitch stuff is like, give them the pitch document that they're going to be able to use to pitch your book internally. Like, if they can't figure out why they should love the book from the pitch doc that you're giving them, like, change it.
So they do, like, make it very easy for them to be like, here's the, like, short and sweet. Here's the little bit longer. Like, this is why we need it. Like, this is why we need that. You know, whatever. And that's. That was all new to me. And. But. But they were great about, like, they were like, we need this from you. Like, we need to be able to pitch this.
And so I put all that together and it was. Now that's kind of how I put everything together. But it, It. Yeah, it just kind of kept looking like I was getting green lights, like, the further along we went. And then obviously they decided to go for it.
But it was. It was. Yeah, it was. It was one of those things where. I mean, even before, like years ago, I had the idea and I would tell it to friends and we're like, oh, you should do that next. Like, you know, like, that sounds hilarious. Like, do that. And he never had a venue other than to self publish it.
[00:20:22] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:22] Speaker B: Or like put together a pitch and do cold. Cold pitching.
And so. And I was probably going to. But like, it would have been years later just because I. Just because of the way it all works. You know, it's.
[00:20:34] Speaker A: It's funny too, because I think I don't. We talked about this with some friends of mine about. I don't ever really like comparison. When someone tries to compare their book to Something else usually. But there's a few that stand out there, you know, and one that's in the same vein, obviously, stray dogs. And they were saying, like, you know, silence. The lands meet something like all those go to heaven or that kind of thing. It makes sense. And then when I saw Dexter meets Richard Scarry, I was like, dude, that's like, on point. Like, that's such a. Such an amazing description of this book. Beneath the Trees where nobody sees that. I was like, this is amazing. I mean, were you a fan of Dexter? Is that like, some, like. Because, I mean, there is this Dexter.
[00:21:08] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:21:09] Speaker A: There's like, you can draw some comparisons to Dexter, for sure.
[00:21:11] Speaker B: Oh, for sure. And it was. It honestly, like, I'm so grateful for Dexter because. And I've only seen the first episode of Dexter, I'd had this idea in my head for a while, and then when I started to watch Dexter, I immediately. I knew off the bat, like, I was like, well, this is probably going to be pretty similar.
There were some big differences, which I was grateful for. But the other thing was that I stopped watching after the first episode because I didn't want to stop myself from doing something that I felt might be too close. So I just didn't want to know. I don't want to know.
I didn't want to know. Like, I understand there's like a. There's a. There's an arc where he's trying to find another serial killer particular or something. And so I was like, I don't want to know anything about that other than, like, conceptually, which is, yes, whatever. But the. But I'm so grateful it existed because it. Even people that have never watched it know enough about it that they can go like, oh, I understand what Dexter is. And then just to be able to use that as the pitch was so great because exactly what you said just.
[00:22:15] Speaker A: There's just very few. I mean, my biggest thing I hate when there's like, novels is the next Stephen King. Like, that's. That's like comparing your. Like, that's just a bad. In my. But like, when you see this perfect one that those, like, it meets that way. And we talked about. We actually read Beneath the Trees, where Nobody Sees from my local comic book shops book club in November. And so we just recently talked about, like, as a group about the book. And a lot of people were like, it's just so different in a sense that, like, it just. The new reading, it's just this juxtaposition of serial killer in like, like, my Son. So Greg sent me a copy from IDW as a thank you to one of some of our readers. Physical copy. And I got it. My 3 year old was like, can I read that? Because, like, if you look at, look at, like, if he doesn't know it's blood on the COVID I know you just think it's paint or something like that. It looks like a book that would be on his shelf and it's one of those things. And I'm like, ah, sorry, this is dad's. You can't really do this. I put it in my office, and so on and so forth. It's like. But then when you read it, it's like, that's the biggest thing I love about it. And that's one of the things that I think Tony and Trish did a great job with. Stray Dogs. Same thing where you're like reading it and you're going, holy crap, this is way darker than it should be.
[00:23:25] Speaker B: Oh my God.
[00:23:26] Speaker A: By looking at the artwork, you must have had fun with that too, though. Like, for sure, it's not just trying to create this unique comic book, but, like having this fun part where you're like, oh, I'm gonna make this so cute and cuddly, but also there's gonna be like, murders. This is amazing.
[00:23:38] Speaker B: It felt, yeah, it felt like it needed. I mean, when I came up with the idea, it was like. I think it was 2017, like, if you go back and like, because I was posting daily drawings all the time and I actually just found the drawing and it's actually just a black and white line drawing that I colored in Photoshop, but it was just a bear. Like an anthropomorphic bear. The design's different, but they're walking down like a hillside and they have an ax on their shoulder that's like really bloody. And that was the thing. And I drew. And then I. The more I was looking at it, I was like. Because a lot of my drawings, like, especially daily drawings, tend to look like snapshots from some larger story or something, which is just sort of the way my brain works. But the. And I don't even know, like, what it is, so. But the thing is, like, I'll draw it and I'll just kind of think about it, whatever. And with that one, it was like, oh, it'd be interesting if there was like a serial killer in like, Richard Scarry's busy town. Was like, the idea.
[00:24:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:31] Speaker B: And then the more I thought about it, I was like, it would be really interesting if there's like two serial killers where it just carries busy towns. And it was a problem. And then. And then I. The more I thought about that, it was the idea of really making it like, as wholesome as possible and then also having just the worst, like, grounded violence, like, happen within that. That felt like. It felt wrong in, like a good way.
[00:24:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:58] Speaker B: That made it sort of really compelling to me. And it also weirdly felt like it would have a bigger impact than if it was just real people.
And I think because it's that nostalgia and that wholesomeness and the sort of naivete of like the town.
[00:25:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:14] Speaker B: It feels like just there's even the town itself within the larger world of Beneath the Trees feels very sheltered. And that all just kind of like. It just. It felt so bad. And like, as I'm making it, I'm like, especially in issue one, I just felt horrible about the setups I was doing because I was like, especially with, like, well, with Martin the Goat and also like Charlie the Mole, like her assistant. Like, I was just like, especially Charlie. I was like, I'm going to hell for this. Like, it was because you. You have to. You have to have that investment with the reader and you really have to play that up and like these, these like. And give them like, life, these real life moments and to make them like a living, breathing family and everything. And so. And it, you know, and that I do that with everything. But there was something about doing it with these animal people that just made it feel like very unfair to them somehow. I don't know.
[00:26:10] Speaker A: Like.
[00:26:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:11] Speaker A: Anyway, it's great because I also feel like in this book club, we discussed it in a group. There was like, everybody loved it. It's one of the few books that a consensus. Like, you know, there's like 15 people in the book club that like all 15 people liked it. It's like this. I think it's like something's killing the children and something else. There was three books that, like, over the past, you know, 18 months that we've done this that are like, consensus. Everybody likes it. Oh, but there was a couple of people who were like, oh, you know, the story wasn't like, incredibly inventive, but because it was set across, set in this storyline of Richard Scarry style artwork, it made it completely different. That like. Yeah, you said some of the stuff maybe wouldn't have worked. Maybe it wouldn't have been as big of a hit as it was. I don't think that.
[00:26:53] Speaker B: And I mean, I mean that was. I mean, that was kind of part of it. Like it was sort of like. I kind of feel like just to go along those same lines but a different medium. Like I remember I really like the movie Drive by Nicholas Wendy Refn. And it. To me it's a super simple movie. It's like nothing special about the movie. Like plot wise. Like you're just kind of like it's a driver, getaway driver. And then he ends up, you know, getting in bad with the bad people he works with. Like not, not, not like revolutionary. It's not like memento or something. But the, the way that the movie's told is awesome. Like it's incredible. And it like is exploring this weird existential. Like he's kind of a psychopath of a character. And then you're. But at the same time, like he's our main protagonist and we're sort of watching him like and the way he defines himself kind of get thrown, you know, to the, to the wind because of the turmoil of like this relationship he had and the circumstances and so like very similar to how they think about Beneath the Trees. But, but it's, you know, it to me, like I, I tend to gravitate towards just concepts that are like fairly simple, but they give you a table. Like they set the table for like a really interesting discussion of stuff like having animal, real animals and then animal people or whatever. You know what I mean? Like, there's certain things about it that I'm kind of setting the table to have these discussions for whatever and explore them in interesting ways, I guess.
[00:28:27] Speaker A: And the funny thing is, one of the things I brought up in the book club was that you have now cornered this part of the market. Anybody else who creates this same similar style, like kids artwork with a serial killer is just copying you.
I mean it's the biggest form of flattery, right? If you end up having people make things after your success in this book.
[00:28:47] Speaker B: I'm all for it.
[00:28:48] Speaker A: But I was just laughing. I'm like, oh yeah, it's pretty cool. He played, carved his own little spot out there. Now he has you know, IDW in them. Have that there. But no. And it is extremely popular and I think a great thing going from being a graphic novel potentially to single issues helped with the variant covers and those cool things. I mean the store, there's a couple of store exclusives. One of them was where the Wild Things Are. Like that was phenomenal in that sense. And so like all these exclusives and things like that. Single issues are huge in my, my book. I love single issues.
[00:29:17] Speaker B: I think that they're terrific also just for having a. Essentially like another monthly, you know, reason to sort of have, you know, reviews come out.
[00:29:29] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:29:29] Speaker B: You're just pushing this book, like every month. And that's. It can lead as buildup for the actual trade coming out the way I had. That was my. I mean, that's why I was so excited, in part why I was so excited that they wanted to do that instead of a trade or a graphic novel. But the. I did not anticipate the actual singles doing well. Like, that was like, the big surprise.
[00:29:51] Speaker A: I honestly don't think anybody is. And I hate to say this because IDW is a great publisher and I think they do a great job. I don't even think they understood what you had, what they had in their hands. Like, I think. I don't think everybody did. I think when I honestly think that it was like, caught somewhat of the comic book world by surprise in the sense that I think some of the people walking into the shop that I go wasn't until, like, issue three were like, do you have issue one of this? Because they didn't realize it was even like, like, what it was and what was going on. And then by the time they're like, no, we're like on the eighth printing of this or something like that, it was like. It was. It was like them trying to find the first issue again. And I was with me. I'm like, I was. I was in front of this. I, you know, I had my. I have my first issue and, you know, I think I was one of like the first 50, you know, in this census for having a nine, eight out there. I was like, yeah, it's probably thousands of them now. But, like, my point was, like, it was just cool thing. And I think there's that. And I do think that helps with, like, like Patton Oswald's quote.
[00:30:40] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh.
[00:30:41] Speaker A: Future issues. And I think Patton Oswald is a wonderful, wonderful comic book creator in his own right. And it's just the cutest. What do they say, finally? Murder and forensics are adorable. Not only is it a Patton Oswald quote, but it's a phenomenal quote about the book.
[00:30:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:30:55] Speaker A: And so, like, having that. A single issue, having that quote beyond future issues and things like that, or second printings and things, I think helps as well. I think people.
[00:31:04] Speaker B: Of course, yeah, Patton's the best man. He. I mean, and I had always appreciated his championing of comics in the past.
And then as soon as he and Jordan came out with minor threats, have gotten like, it feels like even more involved in just like trumpeting like whenever another book comes out, et cetera. And I mean, like, I couldn't be, you know, more grateful to have that quote with our book. Cause it's nuts. Like, it blows my mind. But the, But I would say this about idw. They had, I mean, in talking with them, they had way more confidence about this than I. Okay, they were like. And Ryan, who works with IDW as part of their sales, like, he was pushing hard with a lot of retailers to pick it up. He's like, you're going to want to get more now before, because it's going to, you know, it's going to hit. And, and again, like, it was so funny because, like, I was like, I mean, I hope so. But like, to be honest, guys, like, I'm literally like a no name creator. Like nobody's heard of me in this realm. You know, people know me from horror movies. Like they do not know me in the comics world at all.
It's not gonna, I mean, I don't know. I mean, I hope so. But anyway, so it's kind of. It was hilarious because I think I had probably the most doubt out about anybody.
And especially when I was making it. Like, I was like. And issue one came out and it did super well.
And then I was like, well, they're not gonna like issue two. And then issue two did really well. And then it's like, well, they're not. Three's weird, so they're definitely not gonna like three. And then like it just kept, like, it kept hounding me. Like, it kept being like, man, they're not gonna like five. Like they're gonna be pissed off how six ends. Like, it just kept like, you know, I don't know why. I think it's just because a lot of artists do that anyway. But, but yeah, it was, I, I was, I was kind of imp. They were like, no, we thought it was going to be a hit, dude. And I was like, okay, we're on for this one.
[00:33:06] Speaker A: And it did do well in single issues. It did extremely well. You had multiple second printings, third printings, all these different things. But then the trade hits and it's the number two selling trade behind Spider man now. Does that sunk into you?
[00:33:19] Speaker B: No, that's still like blowing me away. When that happened in September, I didn't even, I mean, I just didn't. And plus we came out like like the third week in September or something. Like we were like late in September and we took number two for September, which is nuts.
And then. And we did, like, number three, I think, in October, and we're still in the top 20, I think, as of last month. Like, it's crazy, man.
It's. I mean, it's. I don't know, like, what. How to compute that other than being super grateful.
[00:33:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:33:55] Speaker B: And then also trying really hard not to overthink as I'm, like, working on the next book, because that, to me, was, like, the huge concern as soon as, like, the first issue came out and did really well. And I was. Like. I said, I was just like, well, they're not gonna like this.
So I'm trying super hard to. And it's. I mean, I'm already, like, I'm already at work on the second arc. So we've figured out the, you know, the path forward that's actually super exciting. And I'm happy to say, like, it's not going to be like, the greatest hits of the first one in terms of, like, kind of revisiting stuff that worked and instead is just kind of forging ahead in, like, a really cool way.
But the. But that. Yeah. So that has kind of how I've been basically trying to ignore it.
[00:34:52] Speaker A: I don't know.
Yeah.
[00:34:55] Speaker B: But at the same time, I very much appreciate when people reach out to me or any of that, like, you know, the response, basically. And it's really grateful for it. And the fact that it has been.
I mean, essentially, like, a lot of people in comics know about me now.
[00:35:14] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:35:15] Speaker B: And it was. And that's kind of what this year has been.
[00:35:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:35:20] Speaker B: And having, like, an Eisner nomination and all that stuff, like, has finally I, like, put me on the. Basically, I've been, like, catching up. I feel like, to a lot of, you know, the folks that are in the industry that have been here for a lot longer, and I constantly feel like I've been playing catch up ever since I kind of started on this because I'd never tabled anywhere.
And I've been making up for that this year.
And, you know, just meeting people, like, I haven't had a chance to meet anybody until this year. Like, stuff. Like just other creators. I mean, rather writers and artists, and it's great. But it felt like it's so funny because it just kind of. Thanks to this comic, like, now I kind of have, you know, I get to do more.
[00:36:08] Speaker A: Well, it's. You put all the effort. And I mean, not say all the effort, because obviously your friends over at IDW did a lot of the help of the promotion and publishing and all that stuff. You did all the work to put into this to make it work that way. And so now you get a sequel. I'm guessing the sequel was planned after the success of the first one. It wasn't like we were already like, well, we're going to do a sequel after this. The success of the first volume, I'm guessing, led to.
[00:36:29] Speaker B: It was. I mean, it was definitely like, halfway through, I think the singles coming out, they were like, would you want to do more?
[00:36:36] Speaker A: I was like, yes.
[00:36:37] Speaker B: I actually have a lot of ideas for what to do next.
And it was one of those things. As soon as I did issue one even, I was like, oh, there's like, a lot more doing with this.
And so I'm just grateful that I, you know, I had that, you know, stored and waiting just in case they did want to do more. And then we get the chance to do it.
[00:37:00] Speaker A: Well, the second volume is literally just all the people from the town coming together. And then the last issue is. They're all together and then it ends, right?
[00:37:10] Speaker B: Yeah. It's all very wholesome.
[00:37:12] Speaker A: Each issue is just people coming together, and you're introducing new characters, and at the very end, they're just all in the same room. And the comic ends. Like one of his earlier, he's taking that idea from when he was younger and putting it into a comic.
Honestly, that's like that issue you wrote. Like, that comic you wrote when you were younger. Sounds like an episode of Seinfeld. Honestly, where, like, every just gets together and then they end.
[00:37:32] Speaker B: It's all about them going somewhere. It's just get there and it's over.
[00:37:35] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:37:36] Speaker B: It was all about the getting there, wasn't it?
[00:37:38] Speaker A: Yes, exactly. And it's. And it's funny because it's like Lord of the Rings.
It's the journey. Some people might die on the way. We don't know. We'll see. We'll see if something. Serial killer. Yeah, it's not gonna.
[00:37:49] Speaker B: Parking lot.
[00:37:51] Speaker A: It's great. I think it's great. I think it'd be fun. I do. I would read that. I mean, here you go. I would read that car. I think a lot of people would read that now. Because you wrote it or drew it, like, either way, I think people. Now your name is out there. I think there are people who are like, I'd read them. If you wrote the description for a movie, I'd read the truth. I'd see the movie. But, you know, like, I think you have some fans now. I think that's a. That's to your hard work and IDW's work and stuff like that. And now your second volume gets to be part of IDW Dark, which is really cool. And that net launch of that imprint, the horror imprint over there, along some pretty cool names of some other intellectual properties and stuff like that. Yeah, that's pretty cool.
[00:38:28] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm excited to have a home for it and to have just a place for it. Feels like it belongs with this imprint and it feels like. I mean, and the company's incredible. So it's just like. Yeah, it. As soon as I'd heard about IDW Dark, I was getting pretty excited about it just in terms of it also, I'm. I mean, like, listen, I've been doing horror stuff since, like, 2000, so in terms of especially, like writing screenplays that nobody's ever going to read back in 2000. But the. But then they can actually see stuff I made in like, 2008. On. Yeah. And it's. For whatever reason, I mean, like. I mean, the main reason is that I love horror. And for whatever, I found myself really comfortable with the genre. And then as a genre and the tropes that you can employ, I find myself using them to just explore whatever kind of concepts more easily than I can and other stuff. I think that part of it is just the visceral nature of horror being universal.
[00:39:39] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:39:40] Speaker B: That just worldwide.
That kind of lets you then put in. It's like weirdly the sugar that lets you put the medicine in.
And I'm just. Yeah, I love it.
[00:39:52] Speaker A: And I think you have some pretty. Some pretty intense moments beneath the trees where nobody sees. But I also think that, like, my wife's not big into horror, that she could read this and it'd be some sort of entry point to the world of horror. That's not like. I don't know. Nail Biter's one of my favorite horror comic books out there. And it gets pretty. Pretty gruesome and intense at some moments where you're like, jeez, I'm crow. This is like, there is that part. But she also was a fan of Dexter, so, like, there's that crossover as well. So I wish we're getting, you know, they're bringing some more of that back. So maybe that's going to. I know selling your comic, it can't hurt. You can't hurt it. Like, it's great. Yeah. This is going to be amazing. Now they might steal. They might be stealing stuff from you instead of you trying to think about stuff. Yeah, they Might be like, oh, we saw this in that comic book.
I think it's great. I think it's. I think it's one of those, like I said, that it's a unique story and that juxtaposition between children's artwork style and a horror story that meets, like, a lot of people's, like, oh, I guess I could. I'll give it a try. And so and so forth. And like I said, I was just glad I got there on the ground floor because I was able to get that. That first issue, you know, first printing. And I'm happy about that. But the trade is, like I said, we were like, nope, we. The book club. I helped curate some of the book club. And I was like, the trade comes out in September. Let's read it in October. Was October, not November. October. And I think there was a book club out in California that did it as well. Oh, yeah, I'm sure there's other ones.
[00:41:07] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:41:07] Speaker A: Comic. Yeah. And I'm sure there's other ones that did it as well because again, it's. October was like that month of horror and stuff like that.
[00:41:13] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, there was. Yeah, we had. Yeah, we've had several and they've been terrific. And it's. It's been that. I didn't anticipate that at all.
[00:41:23] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:41:25] Speaker B: And has been such a wonderful, you know, one of the many wonderful surprises, like that's fallout from this book coming out. Like, I just didn't. I don't know, just having people, like, gathering and reading this book and discussing it. It.
And then I'll.
[00:41:39] Speaker A: Shitting all over it. No, just kidding.
Well, this is funny. We've actually had, like, I've had guests on here who are like, I'll come on, like, if I talk to you, like, say now and I were reading it next month, you're like, oh, let me come on a zoom and talk to you. And they're always like, someone on the book club was like, should we do it while we're talking about it? I'm like, no, we should do it right before we talk about it. And then they should sign off and go, and then we can talk honestly about the book. Because no one's going to say crappy things about this book if the person who created it sitting on the screen. This is not going to be honest. Yeah, so. So no, it's a fun book club and stuff like that. And so we have that. We're reading Sweet Tooth, a whole thing of Sweet Tooth for between November, like a compendium. Yeah. December And January, because we're not meeting because of Christmas. And so we're doing a two month. Yeah. Longer things. And that was pretty cool. I'm just waiting for the Beneath the Trees Ninja Turtles crossover because you are at idw.
[00:42:31] Speaker B: So, I mean, like, listen, it's not. I mean, I don't know how possible that is. Is, but it's definitely within the realm, I guess. Right.
[00:42:38] Speaker A: Craig's like, shush, don't say that. Please stop talking about that. But no.
[00:42:42] Speaker B: And then.
[00:42:42] Speaker A: So that's idw. But you also have really quickly. Let me finish this up. You have free for all you talked about earlier, but that's coming back out in actual. So you Zoop funded that one, right? Originally.
[00:42:52] Speaker B: Correct. We did a Zoop campaign.
[00:42:54] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:42:55] Speaker B: I created it, like I mentioned around 2000 just to do. And then Zoop reached out as soon as Beneath the Trees came out, like, issue one. And they were like, hey, I noticed you have this comic on your website you've never published. Would you want to publish it with us? I was like, oh, yeah. Because I'd been looking at Zoo for a long time.
I mean, I mean, they're relatively new, but, like, they popped up. I was like, well, that's interesting. Like there, you know, we could do crowdfunding and they do a lot of the heavy lifting. That sounds great. And then I ended up deciding to go through with it. And then we got it funded and. And should be hitting everybody's mailboxes imminently.
And then after that Zoop campaign came through, one press reached out and was like, well, what's going to happen after Zoop? And I was like. Because there was this brief window too where it was like, we just did the campaign, which, I mean, it got funded. It wasn't like a huge success, but I mean, people are getting it. It's awesome. There's a couple hundred people are going to be getting. Getting it. And.
And then all these people I met at conventions were like, oh, that book sounds great too. Where can I get it? I was like, well, it's. We did the campaign, but it's done. And so now I. I mean, I have some copies, but not a lot, but like, here's my email. Like, I hope I can get you a copy. Like, it was. It was kind of. I could already see a problem. And then Oni's like, do you want to. What are you going to do after Zoop? And I was like, well, I don't know, nothing. Basically, it's going to sit on my hard drive. And they were like, well, can we put it out? I was like, yes, that would be great. So that's. So, yes. Very grateful to say Oni's going to have it in shops on March.
[00:44:32] Speaker A: In March. Okay. So that's 2025. So you got a big 2025 variant anyway.
[00:44:35] Speaker B: Yes, there's going to be some variant covers and some. And it's basically.
It's not going to be quite everything. It's a little different, like a little less than the Zoo campaign, but it's going to basically be the book.
[00:44:50] Speaker A: Yeah. And so then that's nice because it's mostly done. So then you just have to release that now, which is, like, not gonna hopefully interfere at all with writing and drawing. Obviously, the Rite of Spring sequel to Beneath the Trees, which is nice to have that product, is already done. And just releasing it differently helps without having to take up some of your time.
[00:45:07] Speaker B: So grateful for that because it's been hard.
[00:45:12] Speaker A: I can imagine. I can imagine. I mean, writing and drawing and it's one of those things, I think that there's so many of my creator people that I like who have done both. I have Scotty Young tattoos and having Scotty do both for so many years, he's just like. Like, dude, I can't. I have so many stories I want to tell that I don't have time to draw.
So he's like, I just got to. At one point, he just basically gave. I mean, Kyle Starks has been doing that recently too. A cartoonist who's been able to do both. But then all of a sudden I know where he's like, I'm just going to write right now. And I appreciate that you're doing the second volume, all your. All yourself, but, like, mostly yourself, which is helpful.
[00:45:47] Speaker B: I am. Yeah. I'm definitely. I would like to also write for other artists.
[00:45:52] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:45:52] Speaker B: And part of the aim for just getting out there and meeting people was seeing if anybody else would want to work together.
And so I don't. I mean, I don't have anything, like, to announce or anything at all, but. But I'm open to it. Like, I definitely. Like, it's the same. Yeah, it's exactly that. Like, there's only so much of me to go around, and I can't draw everything, even though I wish I could, but I feel. But I definitely have a lot more stuff that I would like to. To like to do with comics.
[00:46:21] Speaker A: That's awesome. I'm so. I'm excited. I just. Beneath the Trees Where Nobody Sees was a phenomenal, say, first outing the outing of. To the world of your work that the mass people saw. Yeah. And I think that. I think it's one of those things that we're all excited. We all saw the sequel and we're all trying to figure the same thing. You mentioned we're not going to rehash the same stuff you did in the first volume. But we're all sitting here going, what is he going to do? How is he going to top this? And you're over here going, yeah, how am I going to top this?
[00:46:48] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't know. I'm just going to cover my ears and try not to pay attention to that.
I mean, it's. Yeah. We have not a lot of details about it, but I have. We have already said, like, it's going to take place a big time jump after.
[00:47:00] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:47:01] Speaker B: So it's going to be about, like, eight years after the events of the first book and then subsequent. So now, like, that was sort of set in the 80s and now. So now we're in, like, the early 90s. And then we have the things that kind of. There's definitely, like, a lot of crossover with our world and the world of Beneath the Trees because, like, now we're going to have the Internet.
[00:47:20] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:47:21] Speaker B: And we're going to have, like, globalization happening. So there's, like, you know, a lot of industry moves overseas. You have big box stores starting to take over, like, mom and pop shops and running them out of business. And you have, like, urban sprawl happening. And so, like, basically, Samantha's world's getting, like, smaller.
[00:47:40] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:47:41] Speaker B: And that's kind of the setup for the second arc.
[00:47:44] Speaker A: It's awesome. And the image that was released with the bear walking with the bloody feet, it says awesome, too. So, yeah, I'm excited. I'm excited for the next thing. I'm excited for anything else you'll do now. You're one of those artists and creators and writers that I'm like, okay, yep, Patrick's doing something. I'm going to buy it. And that's all right.
[00:47:59] Speaker B: I appreciate that.
[00:48:00] Speaker A: So we're all on board here and we're pumped about it for sure. But, yeah, I think I'm so grateful that you took time out of your day, your busy day writing comics and drawing comics to talk to us here on the podcast. Yeah. And I hope you come on again in the future.
[00:48:16] Speaker B: Oh, man, I would love to. And thank you so much for getting me on here. I am a fan of the show, and so it's so blast to be able to be on here, man.
[00:48:24] Speaker A: Thank you very much. I appreciate it.
