[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to another episode of the Capes and Tights podcast right here on Capesandtights.com I'm your host, Justin Soderbergh. This episode is once again brought to you by our friends over at Galactic Comics and Collectibles at galactic comics and collectibles.com Happy New Year, everyone. This is the first episode of 2025, and it's a big one for me. Today we have Tim Jacobus on the podcast to talk Goosebumps. Tim. Tim is the artist for the original Goosebumps run. He did the first 62 covers for the original RL Stine Goosebumps run over at Scholastic Books. Yeah, so we chatted that, we charted a bunch of different things, how he got the job, how he got into art, all that stuff. But you know what, these are some of the most iconic books in the world, in my opinion. And it's so amazing to be able to talk to Jim on this episode. So. But before you do listen to this episode, find us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Blue skies, threads, all those things. Rate reviews, subscribe over on Apple and Spotify or wherever you find your podcasts. You can also find this video on YouTube and visit
[email protected] for so much more stuff. Reviews, opinions, news, and so much more from the pop culture world. But this is Tim Jacobus talking Goosebumps, the artwork on the COVID Enjoy, everyone.
Welcome to the podcast. Tim, how are you today?
[00:01:30] Speaker B: I am good. Thanks for having me, Justin. Much appreciated.
[00:01:33] Speaker A: Absolutely. So excited to talk to an artist with which some people don't know who you are. That's the sad part.
That's the sad part. I was actually talking with a friend of mine and I picked up a book and I was like, is your name in any of them?
[00:01:50] Speaker B: In the earlier versions, my name wasn't on the title page. Later on, it started to get put in there. So.
Yeah, but again, it wasn't anything. It wasn't, you know, nefarious. They just, they just didn't. Didn't do that at the beginning. Now it's common practice. Almost every book that's published, the, the illustrator, the COVID artist gets their name put in on the title page.
[00:02:17] Speaker A: But as you might be like one of the. As people who are born. I'm born in 86 and so to me, this is like my childhood Goosebumps books. And so to me, you might be the most famous artist. We don't know if that makes any sense. Like, to us, like, this is just these iconic covers now.
[00:02:32] Speaker B: Yes, my work Is well known. This face doesn't mean shit. Don't. Doesn't get me any special treatment. I don't get a free drink. None of that stuff.
[00:02:42] Speaker A: You're like, I used to draw the Goosebumps covers and people are like, yeah, sure you did, sure.
But I mean, if we go back a little further, I mean, what, what got you into artwork itself? Like what, what made you become an illustrator or a painter?
[00:02:56] Speaker B: So when I was growing up, it was, you know, when I was, I went to high school in the 70s, I was a kid in the early 70s, and the idea of being an artist for a living wasn't something that was discussed.
You know, it just, you know, I came from a very middle class family and you know, you're going to go to college and then you're going to get a job and work for somebody. And so my dad knew how to draw and my best friend next door like drawing. So drawing was something we just did regularly. It was something we thought was fun as much as we went and rode our bikes and went swimming at the lake and played basketball. Some point during the day we'd throw the stuff down on the floor in the bedroom and you know, spend an hour or two just drawing stuff and then sharing each other's illustrations.
So the initial part of it was just out of pure, the pure joy of it.
I didn't, I, I knew I liked art and I, as I got older, I'm going, man, is there any way to leverage this stuff? I'm not, I'm not sure. And when I was a senior in high school, I had accumulated enough of my academics to graduate. You had accumulated number of points. I had plenty of points. I was already, I had chosen a local college in New Jersey. So that was all underway and I just needed to kill the day. And of course I'm not going to go taking physics classes or anything like that. So I went to my guidance counselor. I'm going, man, you know, we got any more art classes I can take? And he goes, well, you, you, you cooked everything here at the, at the school. He goes, but they started a new program down the street at the vocational school. And he goes, it's called commercial art. He goes, I don't know anything about it, but it will fit good in your schedule. And I was like, the word art's in there, I'm in. Let's, let's just go.
And when I got there, it was, it was that, oh, oh, here it is. This is, this is it. This is what I've Been looking for. So went there, really got the, you know, got the juices flowing. And then I had to go back and tell my dad, listen, Pop, I don't want to go to regular college. I want to go to art school. And that wasn't, that did not fly well. That was not well received.
And so I was. What I was very lucky about was the guy who was my instructor at the vocational school took the time to get a hold of my dad and, and, and fill him in, like, give him some background because, you know, I appreciate it now that I have a kid. I appreciate the idea that you don't listen to your kid when they're 17 years old. They don't know it.
So this guy went to bat for me and kind of filled in my dad on the idea that this isn't, this isn't wild. This is, you know, the art industry is a business your son can do well. Like, it's all legit. So this guy made an impression on my dad and he let me change that. I was going. Instead of going to college, I was going to art school.
[00:06:22] Speaker A: That's, that's awesome. Having someone to go bad for you for. Sure. I mean, my vocational schools, I mean, I. My day job is doing graphic design and a creative director for a brewery. So I do beer labels and artwork on that side. But my knowledge of using computers was my vocational school that I took. It was one like, honestly one year, my sophomore year, sophomore year, junior year, I took half the day and went to this vocational school and did computer information processing. And it was just basically using computers, using a little bit of flash, things like that. But that just got me so entrenched in using computers that fast. I'm 38 years old. You know, fast forward 20 years, 23 years, I use my computer for a living and it's all because of that. So there is something. But, you know, having something to go to bat for you is great, but.
[00:07:09] Speaker B: The other side of it is, that's the beauty of vocational schools. It's like, here's this tool, we'll show you how to use it. And then if you choose to incorporate it into your toolbox, that's cool. And if not, you know, you still learn something, you still walk away with a skill. So, yeah, no, the whole going to the commercial art classes, then we were introduced into typesetting and, you know, stat cameras and, you know, all this stuff that was never even remotely talked about at your, you know, you go back to school and it's like, these are oil paints and this is watercolor. So again, whole different. A whole different ball game. That's.
[00:07:52] Speaker A: I like. I like to tell people I took a film class in school at my high school, and it. What it legitimately was, was just someone telling me, so watch this movie. You see this. This is called an error in the movie because they have a sandwich and it's half eaten and now it's not eaten anymore, and things like that. And I didn't learn anything. I learned about, like, that stuff. Not anything about actual filming a movie or TV show or anything like that. And so I always tell people I took a film class, like, oh, you must know. I'm like, no, I don't know anything. It was this person who, like, knew a little bit about film and taught a class or whatever. But, yeah, vocational schools are a little bit different because you get entrenched in it and you're there for a few. Little bit. Like I said, mine was, I don't know, two or three hours. I was there.
[00:08:28] Speaker B: Right.
[00:08:29] Speaker A: Half a day.
[00:08:30] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:08:31] Speaker A: And so, I mean. But then. Then that leads, obviously. Obviously, your dad must have been pretty proud that it led to something else afterwards, that you actually did get a career in art.
[00:08:40] Speaker B: Yeah, he was. He, you know, he wasn't thrilled I got out of art school. And I also was very stubborn in my trajectory. I didn't take those. There are. Was another path to doing book covers, and I was going, no, I'm doing. I'm going right to book covers. So if that's your path, you're going to take a. It's going to take you longer. It may take you long. Well, maybe not longer, but the path is, you know, it's a lot rougher. You're going up the face of the mountain instead of taking the nice path that will take you up to the Overlook. And there were times where, you know, again, he. He didn't know the business. He didn't, you know, again.
And I didn't. I was one of those kids where I wasn't bestowing confidence in anybody, in my intellectual prowess. So, yeah, there was times where we butted heads over it and. But when I started to get a couple book covers, he's like, oh, that's. That's cool. And then it was when the goosebumps stuff was, you know, there was a, you know, a groundswell to it that he pulled me aside and he goes, all right, man. He goes, you were right. I gotta say, you know, I didn't. I didn't see it. And you actually saw it. So you know, Congratulations. And so that was good. That was way cool.
[00:10:08] Speaker A: That's. That's awesome. It's a gratifying thing. My, my grandfather, my mom's dad still wants me to get a real job. I don't know what that means, but.
[00:10:16] Speaker B: I heard real job so many times in my life, I cannot even count.
[00:10:22] Speaker A: I'm like, dad, grandpa, I have two kids, I have a house, I have a wife. I've been paying my bills. I have a car. I'm pretty sure I have a real job right now. It pays a salary. Man, I don't know what to tell you.
I don't know, maybe it's just the idea too of artwork and beer. And he's like, I was there a career. Isn't there two breweries in the entire country and Bud Light? And like, no, there's definitely more.
[00:10:45] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a good point. But you're making a good point. And that was what got my dad as well. Because how he grew up there was, there was only like he was in, he was in World War II. So yeah, he didn't finish high school. He went to the war. He did his time in the war. He got out. And what everybody did was you worked for a company and you stayed with that company your whole life, which my dad did, and you retire and they give you a pension. And that was all he really understood. And the idea that like you and like I, we're going to go change the whole trajectory, you know, like it was too much for him to get his head wrapped around that. Well, I think it wasn't. I think he get his head wrapped around it. But the, the no safety net, you know, that whole this is too wild, this is too daring, you know, this is, this is the safe path and what you're doing isn't safe. And it was, you know, any was concerned for my well being, it wasn't, you know, but I think it was his own personal fears, you know, thrust upon me. And then he was, you know, these were real, they were sound fears, but I was also young and dumb and didn't care about them or didn't see them the way he saw them.
[00:12:09] Speaker A: And let's be honest, I mean, in that sense, it's like you're one of the few, and that's a few, but one of the people who actually, it's the success story in this, that there was another person who went to the exact same vocational school, probably the exact same conversation with your, with their dad, who ended up, you know, not doing this and is Working at a, you know, 711 behind the counter for the rest of their lives. Like, there is that story that there was. This wasn't a success to it. So I can understand where someone's coming from when they're like, yeah, absolutely. And that's why there's.
[00:12:35] Speaker B: That we're gonna. Then we flip the coin one more time is if the guy didn't at least try it.
[00:12:42] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:12:42] Speaker B: You know, then he can't say, you know, like, there was other things I tried in my life along the way that didn't pan out. But I'm going, glad I did it. You know, it didn't pan out. But, man, that was, you know, and almost every shitty thing that happened to you in your life is a great story to tell now when you're older and go, I was so stupid that I did this. And, you know, and they're learning and your kids are still young. My kid's now old enough where I can tell him a whole lot of stories that I couldn't tell him when he was 12, but they're way funny now when he's 26. So.
[00:13:20] Speaker A: Well, it's. It's like, I've always. I bought a car when I turned 18 and my dad said, don't do it. About a year later, I said, dad, you were right. I was like, I shouldn't have done this.
[00:13:30] Speaker B: Yeah, my dad had plenty of good advice. Plenty of good.
[00:13:35] Speaker A: But again, you, You. It turned out well. And again you became one of the most famous unfamous people in the world. And. And no, but. So you've done. You did a couple other. You went on to do this professionally. You did some artwork for different covers. Obviously, the Internet is one thing. Or not. What was your first big cover that you got? Like, what was the first book cover you did? Do you remember? Wikipedia says 1985. It was Nola 3.
[00:14:01] Speaker B: There was no. There was one before that. Okay. It was called Found Wanting. Same, same publisher, Dawe Publishing. I did three or four books in a row with him. He was the first guy to go, yeah, you know, I'm gonna give you a shot, kid. And he was an older dude. He was originally an author, and then he was around long enough that he became his own publisher.
All sci fi books, you know, and he put out some. Some real monsters in his day. And yeah, he saw something in me and gave me a shot.
And it was, you know, and there's nothing more exciting than that first one, you know, while you're doing it, it's exciting, but then you turn it in it. But it's not until you're able to go to the Barnes and Noble. Yeah, there it is. You know, it's in the shelf with everybody else's. And you go, all right, man, this is. This is something.
But, you know, you're also. They're not paying you hundreds of thousands of dollars for that cover. And, you know, at the beginning, you get one or two a year that's not doing anything, you know, doesn't keep the lights on at the house. So, you know, that's that. But once you do have that first one, it's way easier to go knock on the door down the street and say, look, you know, I did one and I got it done on time. And you could go talk to Donald Walheim and he'll tell you, you know, I'm responsible and I get stuff done. So, yeah, that first one is a big one.
[00:15:40] Speaker A: And how. So you did a bunch or you did a few after that, too. But like, how did this lead into. How did you end up getting the job as the Goosebumps, you know, a cover artist?
[00:15:50] Speaker B: So did a couple of jobs on my own, worked with another art director. And at this point, you know, maybe I've got. I've got less than 10 books under my belt. And he's going, yeah, he goes. And I was, you know, I live in Jersey, would drive into New York and I was the guy knocking on the doors. Me and my ex wife were the ones going around and seeing everybody. And this art director said, listen, you know, it's way good that you're hustling like this, but you got to get yourself a rep because you need to be staying home and painting and somebody else should be finding the work for you. And I'm going to give you a name of a couple of people. And those people are professionals. That's their job is finding work for artists. And this will really change, you know, you change your trajectory. So I did get that rep. He opened a ton of doors.
You know, we were. Instead of just working for the one, the two publishers I had at the time, he had connections with basically all of them. And I did a couple of jobs with Scholastic over the years for a couple years, mostly young adult stuff, kid stuff, no horror, though. I hadn't done any horror. And you know, and I was, you know, I would do, you know, I wasn't picky and choosing, you know, if there was a job, I'm doing it. And when Goosebumps came along, it wasn't a big.
There wasn't A lot of enthusiasm for it. They didn't think it was going to do well. I was kind of just. I had just finished up a cover and I was, you know, kind of, you know, I was sitting there on the bench and they just went, oh, yeah, this is coming along. There's no reason why you can't do this. Why don't you give this a shot? So I was kind of standing in the right place at the right time. If I was on another book cover or another book cover project, it was going to somebody else. It wasn't like they were going, oh, this thing is made just for Tim. And no, no, that. That's not it at all. It was, hey, you know, you're standing there with nothing to do. Come over here. Let's, let's. Let's see if we can put you to work.
[00:18:14] Speaker A: At the beginning. I mean, I don't know the whole. I don't. I've never had a conversation with R.L. stein or any of the people over at Galactus, but at the beginning, was this gonna be a long series or was this like, oh, no, no, it.
[00:18:26] Speaker B: Was again, very, you know, it was. It was presented to me as, hey, we've got this thing. We're gonna try it. That. We've never tried this for this market. We don't think it's going anywhere.
We don't even have a full budget for the covers. Will you help us out on this? Do these couple of covers and then when this thing blows over, we'll. We'll get you. We'll. For doing us a favor. We'll make sure we put you on another project. So again, no. No enthusiasm whatsoever. I. I looked at. I got a. RL had written a chapter for welcome to Dead House. I read it and I was like, oh, this is pretty cool. Ah, you know, I'm in. I don't care. I'll take the couple hundred dollars less. You know, it's. It's a job, and it looks like it's gonna be fun.
[00:19:21] Speaker A: So that's awesome.
[00:19:22] Speaker B: Yeah. So we. We did it. And then they were going, yeah. Oh, we. You know, by the way, we hadn't really chosen you. It was you between you and one other guy. But we like what you're doing. And there'll be a couple more. So at no point early on was there any even hint that this was going to be a success. It was always like, oh, yeah, so there's two more. Oh, awesome. There's two more. And then got done with those two, and they're like, yeah, it looks like four more. Oh, wow. Very cool. Never, I had never been on a series, so the idea that there was something steady coming behind that one that was, you know, oh, that was like, okay, you know, the, the, the light, the electric bill is gonna get paid because we're good for the next four months. There's gonna be a book coming. So anyway, it was real nice like that. And then it was, you know, maybe nine or ten months in. It didn't, like, just shoot out of the, you know, and, and turn into something. It took a little while for it to build, but when it did finally take off, it went from kind of okay to, you know, like, it just spiked. And then at that point, everybody was just like, all right, we got something here. Don't anybody mess with what we've been doing. Let's just keep doing the same thing and let's see how long. And, you know, and then it just, then it got kooky, you know, Then, you know, they're printing goosebumps stuff on every piece of paraphernalia you could possibly make. And.
Yeah, and then, you know, then it turned into, you know, it took on a life of its own.
[00:21:15] Speaker A: So crazy. Yeah, it's absolutely crazy. What are you talking about? You didn't think Scholastic didn't go, hey, we're going to do 62 of these right from the beginning.
[00:21:22] Speaker B: No, no, no, no. It was always boom, fed. We'll do a couple more.
[00:21:27] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:28] Speaker B: You know, it wasn't until we were in it where then they go, and, yeah, we're gonna do a whole, we're gonna do 12 more. A whole year. But yeah, to go, oh, we're doing 62 and you'll be busy for 10 years. Get that. Get out of here.
[00:21:43] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, so did you do.
[00:21:45] Speaker B: All of them or.
[00:21:46] Speaker A: There's definitely conflicting information. Is there? It says you didn't do number two and number 12. Some places. Is it, Is it?
[00:21:51] Speaker B: So, okay, so the. On the first go around. Yeah, I didn't do book two and 12.
[00:21:58] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:21:58] Speaker B: Then when we got to the end of the series, one of the art directors went, you did them all except for 2 and 12. Well, do 2 and 12 and we'll, we'll, we'll mix them in there so you can go, hey, you. I did a. And I was like, oh, thanks, man. And so, yeah, I, I, I can say that I did them all. They just weren't the first run for two and 12. But there are. If you search out and do a Google search on Stay out of the basement. And be careful what you wish for. You will see my versions of those covers.
[00:22:33] Speaker A: That's. That's pretty funny. It's. It's. It's a. It's a. Yeah. So having those missing ones and be.
[00:22:38] Speaker B: Like, ah, gosh, well, no, again, didn't think of it like that at all. It was just like, hey, that was great. Yeah, I didn't do those, but look how many I did. There was never, you know, and then when we finished the first 62, we did go on to do Goose, the series 2000, and there was another 26 there. But Goosebumps for me came to an end in the early 2000, 2003. And they, you know, and to me, it was like, wow, that was a hell of a run. You know, okay, you know, that's it. We're done. But this one, the bed. And we got to kind of reinvent who we are and continue to get work. The idea of this nostalgia thing and people revisiting this thing all these years later, that's a, you know, that I never saw that coming. And it's still, you know, I. I say it constantly. It still blows me away that, you know, here's you and I. It's December 16, 2024. You know, we got other things to do.
[00:23:52] Speaker A: Yeah, this is cool.
[00:23:55] Speaker B: And it's fun to talk about, and people are still excited.
[00:23:58] Speaker A: It's cool because I'm a part of. I read a lot of novels as well as comics and other Watch movies and things like that. And in my year, this year was like, oh, I'm gonna reread some of these and see what, you know, you know, see if I remember them the same way I did when I was reading them as a younger, younger lad. And there's some of them that. Okay. You know, sometimes, you know, I'll be brutally honest. Sometimes I'm like, R.L. stein didn't do his best in this one. But there are other. There's a lot of them that are just like, holy crap, these are still bangers. They still resonate with me. They still can. They still hit the same way. And again, I think it's still the benefit I get being a designer of beer labels is I'm the first thing that people see when they go to buy it in the store. And so if someone looks at the thing goes, that's sweet. I want that. I am the one that hopefully drew them into that, which is really cool. And I will say the first thing that draws a lot of people into the nostalgia of these Things is two things. It's the artwork itself that's on the front. It's the logo. And so, like, those two things that are on the front of that book is the first thing that I think a lot of people go, even if they're never going to read it, I mean, there's something like, just something about these things that just. I think it's the size, it's the fact that it's horror for kids, for younger people. I think a lot of it, there's a nostalgia that we live through right now in general, in the world. And so this fits into there. I think it's one of those things that a lot of people want to relive their childhood in the positive side of their childhood. And this is one of the things that we almost felt like we were doing something wrong. I almost felt like I was reading something I wasn't supposed to be reading because I got the goosebumps. And then there was the TV show that obviously helped fuel some things. And then the revitalization of the TV show nowadays, I mean, in January this year is what the second season or whatever of the little reboot they're doing over at Disney. And that's just fascinating to me. There's multiple movies. It's crazy. And you had a part. One of your pieces of artwork was in the first movie. Is that right at the end of it? Yes. That's cool. Cool. I mean, a movie itself is not like it doesn't really have anything to do with you, in a sense. I mean, obviously you were part of the original material, but it's not like they're asking you to do the poster. And so what's cool about this? Having your artwork in the movie? You were a part of it.
[00:26:00] Speaker B: Yeah. And that was it. You know, I was. You know, when I heard the movie was coming, I was like, oh, that would be cool to do something. And I was thinking movie poster, but I'm going, yeah, that's a whole separate genre. You know, like, that's. You know, it's like saying, hey, I play baseball, but there's a football game going on down the street. They should let me play. That's not how it works. So when they. They didn't contact me until very late in the process, and I had already, like, mentally went, all right, nothing's gonna happen. That's okay. I can't wait to go see the movie. And when they called me up and said, hey, we need you to do this piece, it was like, all right, one more time, you know, we gotta do something. And the guys were very cool that I worked with. And, yeah, it was fun. The whole thing was very fun.
[00:26:53] Speaker A: That's just really cool to see. Like I said, it's one of those things that. I think that we do live in a nostalgic world, and goosebumps is part of that. And. And you're. I think your artwork is just. I don't know, it's unique. It's one of those things you don't see that often anymore. And I think that it brings me back to my childhood. But when you went into making these things, this was just like, they told you the name of the book and a little synopsis of what the book's about, and that was it. You just ran with it on that. You know, like I said, I did some research before. I wanted to hear from. From the horse's mouth a little bit more instead of just the Internet. But, like, you didn't. It's not like you had conversations on the phone with R.L. stein saying that, what do you want to do? It's just basically scholastic being like, this is what the book's about. Do some artwork.
[00:27:33] Speaker B: RL Would go, here's the title. Here's a couple sentences. I gotta write the book. Have at it. Go to town. And then he never. And what's. You know, what's. I think, interesting to people who don't know how the business is. He had no say whatsoever in my sketches what went on the COVID He would just see it when it was finished, the artwork, and go, all right, that's what's going on the book. And for, again, everybody has to remember this. All pre Internet, social media, you know, immediate contact on anything. I didn't know what he thought of what I was doing. I just. I hoped he liked it. And. And, you know, and then you would get word from an art director who said, oh, yeah, yeah. RL Saw it, and he thought that was cool, but it was always word of mouth. And I'm going, yeah, he could be lying. Who knows?
Anyway, so, yeah, the being able to kind of just have a lot of information to create the COVID is actually advantageous. And I'm sure if you're designing, you know, labels for beer, there's only so much they can tell you. You know, it's like, yeah, it's a. It's a logger, it's a porter. It's a this. And then you got to create the whole story on your own and make it interesting and come up with a theme. And the. The. You Know, RL would give me just enough to go, all right, I see what we're doing this time. I think, you know, I'm gonna go. And because there was limited amount of information, I could go, well, I can do this. They didn't tell me I couldn't do this.
But if they boxed me in and said, you know, it's this. It's happening here. This is what the. You know, this is what the creature looks like. Yeah, this tall, and we're in, you know, we're in the Midwest. And, you know, like, the more information, the box gets smaller. And never had any of that.
[00:29:38] Speaker A: Did they come back a lot at you and say, do it this way, this way. It's not scary enough. It's too scary or anything.
[00:29:45] Speaker B: We were on, you know, God bless R.L. stein. He, you know, he's writing a book a month along with the other books he's writing at the same time.
So our turnaround was very, very tight. And nobody. I only had to change a couple of pieces. Nobody messed around. They were always like, okay, good, this one's done. Here's the next. Like, we were always looking right to the next one. It was like, yeah, good enough. All right, let's keep. You know, it was, you know, as if you're just running, you know, handing the baton off all the time. Hurry up, get it to the printer. Hurry up, get it on the truck. Hurry up, get it in the stores. So you.
[00:30:29] Speaker A: I talk to a lot of comic creators and comic artists. It seems very similar to the world. I mean, it's a serialized item, and so you're talking things that, like, there's deadlines to meet and things like that, where. Where these aren't like what normal books are nowadays, which is, you know. You know, R.L. stein just released Shark Shark Night last this past year. It's like he's gonna work on his next book for next year. It's not like he's doing this every month like he was back then.
You might at least a couple a year. But, like, I'm just saying, like, there's not this. You were just. And you were on a deadline. So in a sense, even if they didn't like it, they probably, like, I will do.
[00:30:59] Speaker B: Yeah, right. We're going to go. It's like, we got to live with it. All right, move on to the next one, where I'm sure that the guy who's doing the new covers for RL's books, and they're on a much slower pace. Yeah, he's working with A much larger group of people, and there's many other people putting their two cents worth in. And, you know, that's okay, too. I mean, that's. That's mostly how this business runs.
The idea that you get to do what you want, get out of here, that's, you know, that's not happening. So it's just, if the people who you work with are good.
[00:31:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:37] Speaker B: Then it doesn't matter how many there are. If everybody's cool and everybody knows how to, you know, how to put their 2 cents worth in or know when to not say something or when to step in. You know, like, you get a good team together, and it doesn't matter. But, you know, back then, it was just me and really just one other person who was the art director. She was great.
You know, she had ideas, I had ideas. Tell me yours. Are you mine? All right, I'm here. I'll put them all down on paper and send them over, and people pick what they want.
[00:32:11] Speaker A: Do you have a lot of the originals?
[00:32:13] Speaker B: Original. I have the original sketches. Artwork. They. They paid me extra.
[00:32:19] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:32:19] Speaker B: To hang on to the art. Back then, it was hard to get reproductions because, again, this. These are paintings. They're not. Not digital files. So they said, listen, we're gonna keep asking you for this art, so we'd rather pay you some extra money and keep them all. And at the time, I was like, okay, give me the extra money. And, you know, now in hindsight, it's like, oh, that was probably the. The least effective business transaction I ever did in my whole life.
[00:32:55] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, it is what it is. It's the early, early, early person writing a book and signing away all their rights because it's. It's the way this money up front and then comes out to be turned out to be a blockbuster franchise that, you know, they didn't know was going to do as well, and so on and so forth. And again, R.L. stein. When. 1992. And R.L. stein came up with the first Goosebumps books. It wasn't like, oh, guys, look what R.L. stein is doing. This is the beginning. This is a. A. We didn't. It was an unknown. It was just as much as an unknown than you were.
[00:33:21] Speaker B: It started out with a little negative press. It's like, oh, these are devil books, and you know that we shouldn't be having them in this. You know, like, it all started out a little bit bumpy, a little bit rocky, and. Yeah. But, yeah, that found its. It found its way, you guys. Yes, as kids were the ones that made it find its way. And it was through pure word of mouth of you talking to one another and just going, these are cool. These are cool.
[00:33:51] Speaker A: And having the name of Scholastic behind it. I mean, let's be honest, Scholastic book fairs were like a massive, massive thing for us at school. Like my son, it's different nowadays. My son has it at day, his daycare. They do it once every quarter or whatever and. But it's a little like a flyer, like a newspaper flyer. Basically. You go through and pick what you want. You online, you order it and it comes in the mail a couple weeks later. Whereas it used to be like, you go in there and they'd be like, you go home with a book that day. Like Scholastic would show up my school with like a bunch of books and you could buy the next Goosebumps book right there at school.
[00:34:21] Speaker B: Right. It was all physical and it was a huge event. And yeah, like you said, they showed up with a vehicle full of stuff. And, and so that's, that's another key to why Goosebumps was successful. Because Scholastic was doing academic books first and they had built the pipeline that went from the Scholastic building to the schools. So then when they started to branch out and create different kinds of books, the pipeline's there. So the fact that Goosebumps books were probably some of the earlier non academic books that were showing up, plus they were so different. You know, there's monsters showing up in your school library. There was. I wasn't competing with other monsters there. It was, it was my territory.
[00:35:12] Speaker A: It was either yours or like how to do algebra. It was.
I don't know which one I want to. Which one's more scary? I don't know exactly. I don't know which one's more scary.
But yeah. So I mean, do you have a favorite? I mean, it's hard to say. It's like your child babies. I know you have a real kid.
[00:35:26] Speaker B: But like, yeah, it changes a lot. I, I move around with ones, you know, there's, there's ones that, you know that are popular and I like them. I, I don't, I don't hate any of them.
But there, you know, I like the ones where when RL would send over the stuff and go, okay, that's what this one is. I would have to go, huh, I'm not sure what I'm doing here. Where. Some of them were totally straightforward.
[00:35:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:35:59] Speaker B: Scarecrow walks at midnight.
[00:36:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:01] Speaker B: You already have a mental image. It already popped in your head. So did I. I got this one. We know what to do. Very simple. But when he says something like egg monsters from Mars, you go, huh, I don't even know what that is. But I'm going to have to spend some time. And this is cool because no one knows what this is. So whatever I make is going to be okay because it's not like, oh, wolves don't look like that. Wolves look like this. So those were the fun ones. The ones where this. These don't exist and I get to just make them up from. From scratch.
[00:36:40] Speaker A: That. That. That's. Do you have fan. The fans and you've been doing conventions and things like that recently and do have fans have a favorite one, in your opinion? Do you think that there's like a one that gravitates towards.
[00:36:50] Speaker B: So, yeah. So the ones I cannot not show up to the cons with are the Haunted mask.
[00:36:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:01] Speaker B: Night of the Living Dummy.
A Day in Horrorland.
Those are the. Those are the monsters. Those are the ones. You know, if I just went to a con and that's all I had on the table, I would do okay.
[00:37:16] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:16] Speaker B: But, you know, those are. They sell, you know, five times as many. And I'll bring, you know, I keep changing them up and I shuffle them and I bring a whole bunch of different ones, but those three, you know, those are killers. And then there's a second tier with say cheese and die.
[00:37:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:34] Speaker B: Werewolf of Fever Swamp.
[00:37:36] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:37:37] Speaker B: Welcome to Dead House. You know, again, you know, there's. There's a group of ones that people just have super, super fond. Yeah. Attachments to.
[00:37:49] Speaker A: I. I think I gravitate towards the ones that do have inanimate objects in it or like a house or the. The monster blood one where it's like. It's just stairs with blood going or going down it. But you're like, you have somehow made me go, oh, crap, this is scary as hell. Well, it's just a pair of set of stairs with some. It looks like someone spilled their Mountain Dew going down it. No, but, yeah, and it's the same. It's just a haunted house. It's not. But there's something about that that does it for me in that sense. But yeah, there's. There's a. There's a. Also, like, welcome to Camp Nightmare, where it's like the monsters around the tent and you don't see the whole thing and it has this eeriness to it and so on, and you can only.
[00:38:23] Speaker B: See his hand and eyes and the rest of it. You're. Yeah. Anytime that you can put something in a position where the viewer has got to make up the rest of it in their head. Yes. You know. You know, the famous story about, you know, the movie Jaws was. The shark was a piece of shit, so he kept filming around it. So we all got like, you know, it wasn't. You know, you only saw it for a little bit, and it scared the hell out of you. So. Kind of the same thing here.
[00:38:57] Speaker A: Yes. It's. If it's the fear of unknown, it's that. That thing. But, yeah, I mean, to be honest with you, I don't know. I mean, I don't know when my son's gonna be old enough to. To not scare the crap out of him in the first place, because he's everything. But we're watching. I don't know, we're watching Christmas Chronicles last night or whatever, and he was like. There was a moment where, like, I don't know, the police officers were chatting with. With the Santa Claus, and he's like, I don't like this part.
[00:39:21] Speaker B: Oh.
[00:39:21] Speaker A: Because everything's not festive and joyous right here. You're. You're scared of the movie. No, there's, like, moments in, like, the Grinch or the. The new Grinch, which is really fluffy, honestly. And he's like, can we skip this? And like, dude, come on. Well, I love horrors.
[00:39:34] Speaker B: You know, I. I've mentioned this before as well. I was that kid. I wasn't. I wasn't the horror guy. I wasn't the brave kid. I was the kid who called his mom from the movies, come and pick me up. This is too scary. So the fact that somehow I'm the guy who's making the scary stuff for kids, you know, it doesn't really make any sense, but that's the way it all unfolds. So, yeah, you know, your kid will. You know, he'll come around and just. It'll depend when he comes around, he likes.
[00:40:08] Speaker A: I've moved my collection of Goosebumps books. I have, I would say, 50 of 62 Goosebumps books. A couple of them are the later printings, which I need to replace, because I don't. This is a podcast with you on it, so I can talk great things about you. What we've seen currently and recently in reprinting of the Goosebumps is not meeting my standards of what Goosebumps is supposed to be. How about I put it that way? Is that a politically correct statement?
But he loves to help me organize. Like, I've moved him from the hallway because they ran out of room and I put them in my office, things like that. He's like, can we put the Goosebumps books away? And he's helped me putting him in order. So there's the. He has the word goosebumps in his. In his brain. I was just gonna say he.
[00:40:49] Speaker B: He can identify.
[00:40:50] Speaker A: Yes, he does. Yeah. And he wants to know when I'm gonna move him again. That's the other question. He's like, can we move the Goosebumps books? I'm like, I don't need to, man. I don't. Some of them are pretty fragile right now. The bindings are getting. Getting kind of rough, so we can't move them too much. But how does your son. Does he have a connection to it at all?
[00:41:07] Speaker B: He was of an age where the first wave of Goosebumps was kind of dying down when he was the age to be reading. So he knew what they were. He wasn't a big reader when he was that age.
Then there's the third part of it where it's what my dad does.
[00:41:26] Speaker A: Yes. Yes.
[00:41:27] Speaker B: That kind of makes it way less cool.
He.
He became more.
Fan is a. Not the right word, but he became more of a fan when he got older. Yes. He could kind of look at it from afar and go, yeah, this. This thing's pretty cool. He's come with me to a few cons and work behind the table with me, and, yeah, you know, now he can appreciate him. And he helps me with the. The poster business, so he's an active part of it. So it's a different perspective and. But, yeah, as a kid.
[00:42:03] Speaker A: Nah, yeah, I. I feel the same way. My dad was a musician. He played drums and rock bands growing up. And I was always like, oh, that's pretty cool and all that stuff. But, like, as a younger kid, I was like, I don't listen to his music, though. That's just weird. And nowadays I'll actually put it on, listen to it.
[00:42:17] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:42:17] Speaker A: You know, 20 years ago that he quit the band or whatever. And so it's. It's nice. Yeah. I can understand it being like, oh, that's my dad's thing, you know, it's always funny to. Seeing people talk like a kid. Parents whose kids are like, I don't know, the Red Hot Chili Peppers or someone was like, yeah, I don't like the music. There's not my favorite.
[00:42:35] Speaker B: And I can appreciate it because you're trying to, you know, either you've been overexposed to it as, you know, it's just. It's around everywhere in your home. So you're just going, yeah, yeah. What else is there out there? I'm. You know, I'm gonna find my own stuff.
[00:42:52] Speaker A: Exactly, Exactly. I mean, so. So as we get closer to wrapping this up here, what.
What do you find nowadays is just so special about those Goosebumps covers from the, you know, 90s and then 2000s? What. What resonates the most with you?
[00:43:07] Speaker B: It's the, you know, so when Goosebumps was popular in the 90s, and let's say the, you know, the Barnes and Noble down the street had me come in to sign some books and you would show up, but when you showed up, you were 11 years old, and you're showing up with your parents, and you would be shy, and we really didn't have a conversation other than, you know, I like Goosebumps. Do you know R.L. stein? And that would be the extent of the conversation. And now when I go to a con, there's not a. You know, the majority of the people who come to talk to me are in their 30s. Some of them are in their 40s, and it's a whole different conversation. And they're telling me specific stories of, you know, how it was when they were a kid and why this stuff meant something to them. And, like, we're having very interesting conversations about, you know, the. The. The significance of the series to them that they remember fondly. And that's. That's very cool, you know, because again, when I was doing it back then in the day, it was like, yeah, this is fun. I got a cool job. I'm making these kids happy. But I had no idea I was gonna make an impression on them enough that they'd still have memories of it when they're adults, you know? Yeah. So I did a ton of things when I was 11 that I, you know, that I don't think about or talk about. You know, they just kind of went along their way. And the fact that this stuff still resonates, that's. That's. It's interesting, it's cool, and it's not anything I take as for. For granted. I know that's a. That's a special cool thing.
[00:45:04] Speaker A: That's awesome. I was just thinking one last thing when you. When you were talking about that is, what about the people who have tattoos of your covers on them?
[00:45:11] Speaker B: It's wild. But now, when it first started happening, I was going, what the hell is wrong? What are they doing? You know, like, there's so much cool art out there. Go. You know, don't do that. And then now, over the years, and I've met the people, and then they have a story that goes along with it, and why this piece resonates with them. It's. It's the coolest thing in the world.
Those are. Those are the dedicated fans. You know, they. They've laid it on the line. And.
And at first, when it was happening, it was just. You know, there was just one or two out there, and now it's a thing, and it's, again, super flattering. Very, very flattering. And there's some. The. The ones that I. That resonate with me are the ones where the tattoo artist has put their. You know, put their own spin on it. So it's not just a copy of my cover. They've done something extra to it to kind of make it theirs and mine.
[00:46:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:46:18] Speaker B: And now these people are getting, you know, some. Something original on them. So. Yeah. No, beyond.
You couldn't have told me at any point in my life, oh, by the way, you're gonna do some artwork that people you don't even know are tattooing on their body. You know, listen, when. So when I went to high school, when I. When I was in. Okay. When I was a kid, the only people who had tattoos were guys who were in the Navy. My dad's from the Navy, and they were ships. And then if you. There was a kid in your high school who had a tattoo, that means he was in juvie. And, you know, this was. This. There was nothing, you know, fashionable or cool about tattoos. So again, you tell me that stuff when I'm in high school, I'd be like, what are we talking about? So that's funny.
[00:47:15] Speaker A: So I have multiple tattoos. Okay. And my. My favorite comic book artist is the guy named Scotty Young. And you probably heard of him, but I know. And there's a number of Scotty Young ones on here. And it started off with, my son's name is Nova, So this is Nova. And so on and so forth. And then my buddy's Ben Bishop, who draws for the Ninja Turtles. I have one of his Ninja Turtle drawings. Yeah. On my shoulder. And so it's one of those things that, like, when I talked to Scotty Young on this podcast, and he was just like, yeah, it's really weird. It's really odd seeing people walk through. You're like, yeah, I didn't draw that for your skin, but okay, cool, man. Like, whatever.
[00:47:50] Speaker B: That's. That's a good. That, you know, the composition was Made to fit on the square, the. The book cover. And now there it is on your arm. It's like, yeah, if I knew it was gonna be on your arm, we would do something different with it.
[00:48:04] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. It's cool. And I do think that my best. One of my best friends is my tattoo artist, and he likes to do these pieces of artwork because he's also like, one of those things where he's like, it's not someone coming in. Be like, can you put a butterfly on me? He's like, it's something that he has a passion with, too. So if I went in there and said, hey, can I get one of Tim's Goosebumps images on. On me? He'd be fascinated and loving it because he grew up with me and he knew he was eating a Goosebumps fan, too. And it's like, being able to illustrate that on someone's arm or leg or whatever is pretty sweet to him too. So when he does the Scotty Young stuff, he's like, at least I'm not doing another tribal symbol. He's like, at least I'm doing something more creative and more fun than just something stupid. Yes.
[00:48:43] Speaker B: You know, and I could see that. And again, like I say, and then I've seen some, you know, the very cool, you know, cool placements. I've seen some top of people's hands. I've seen some really great black and white stuff where, you know, my art is just totally saturated with color and, you know, they pull all the color out and all of a sudden the thing takes on a whole different vibe.
[00:49:06] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:49:07] Speaker B: And yeah, it's a. Again, nobody saw that.
[00:49:13] Speaker A: No, no, no, no, no. I tell you that right now. I don't think that when the Scholastic was like, oh, yeah, it's probably. I wouldn't want to make a guess. It's one of those.
[00:49:23] Speaker B: Tattoos.
[00:49:25] Speaker A: They're like, one of these days, one of our Scholastic books are going to be tattooed on someone. That's awesome. No, it's a. It's a fun thing. And I do think that there's. It shows the passion, it shows the nostalgic in it. But what's cool for people nowadays is on your website, you can buy the prints now in at Cons, but you can buy the prints on your website, which is something that, to me, it's like this. These live on a shelf, but a lot of times they're spying out, so they can't really. Not just randomly going to be displaying someone's be. Like, why is there A random goosebumps books on your shelf somewhere. But having these prints available for people to purchase and stuff is pretty cool too. And I'm guessing you sign prints when they go out and things.
[00:49:57] Speaker B: They're all signed and they also. I sell them at two sizes, but the, the big size, which is 18 by 18, is very close to the original size that I did.
So to see them stripped of all the text, you get the, you get to see what I saw when I was creating them. And you can see the amount of size where that's the level of detail I was able to, you know, that's what I had in front of me. So I think it gives you a chance to see the art a little bit differently and.
Yeah, and then the flip side of it is we, we carve out $10 from every sale of each poster to buy food for the food bank down the street. So people are getting some cool art and we're loading up the truck with some food once a month to take down the street. So you get that, you know, again, started this thing out thinking it was going to be, you know, a couple bags. We'll be done, you know, this thing will all kind of fall in on itself and I'll be done in, in eight months. And we're five years in and we just, every month everybody's, you know, graciousness fills the truck and, you know, and the people at the food bank just, you know, so the way, so it's just my son and I and so to cut the steps, we, you know, at the end of the month, we tally up the sales. You go, how many? Then you put it, put a zero on the end. That means that's $10. And then we order the food through Walmart. So Walmart will deliver the food to your house and it all comes in Walmart boxes and bags. Bags. And so you can, oh, for the first couple of years, the people down the street thought worked for Walmart, they had no idea what I was doing. And they're going, this is weird. You know, like. And again, I'm not there to tell this, you know, I'm just, here's the food. That's all we're doing. And then finally, after years of us showing up, they, you know, they ask more questions. So we're no longer the Walmart guy. I'm finally the Goosebumps guy. And so that, that, that's a, it's a little close to truth.
[00:52:15] Speaker A: That's awesome. It's just working at Walmart. Yeah, that's what I Do and you go and I didn't even pay for any of this. I just stole it.
[00:52:24] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:52:24] Speaker A: I just walked out the back door.
[00:52:26] Speaker B: Stays quiet. We'll keep the scam going.
[00:52:29] Speaker A: Exactly. And what is your website? I meant to send.
[00:52:32] Speaker B: Say that it's Jacobus Studios dot com.
[00:52:35] Speaker A: Okay. There you go. And are you. We're finishing this up here, but are you working on other books covers right now too, or is this.
[00:52:43] Speaker B: I just finished up a piece that's will get some pretty good exposure. I can't talk about it.
[00:52:49] Speaker A: That's fine.
[00:52:50] Speaker B: Something a little bit different.
Again, different market, different, you know, different genre. But I painted some recognizable people are in the painting. So that's a lot of fun. And earlier this summer I got a chance to work for Magic the Gathering. They let me do some, some cards for their new horror series. So yeah, again the work is there.
People are still interested in the style. So yeah, they're very happy to be, you know, doing what I, what I've been doing for.
What are we talking? We're 90, you know, it's been a lot of years.
Yeah, 40 plus years. You know, again, my first book was in 84, so you know, I, you know, I've been doing this so long I can't remember not doing it. You know, it's like my whole life. But yeah, it's been, it's been wonderful.
[00:53:54] Speaker A: It's. It's fantastic. You are a part of my childhood, even though I didn't know who you were until recently.
But yeah, like I said, it's one of those things. And. Yeah, and it's one of those. Daniel Krause, author. Daniel Krause came on a couple of times, actually did a beer collaboration with Daniel at my brewery. But he has mentioned before about he's part of this like group of people who want to start doing a lot more with like crediting people in the back of books or in the front of novels that put the work into it. It's not just the author who's writing these books. It's the COVID artist, it's the designer, it's the layout person, it's the publicist, the PR people, all that stuff to help push this book out. It's not this one author doing all the work and then doing it. And so he says as the author, he's like, I want more people getting credit. Because in comic books, I mean, you look at the inside of it, it's like the guy who gets the mail is credited in the inside of a comic book.
[00:54:41] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that's cool.
[00:54:42] Speaker A: And so.
[00:54:43] Speaker B: And book designers are the young song heroes of the market. They do. They can. They can make or break you. And just the, you know, I've seen. We all have, you know, some incredible book designs over the years where you just shake your head and go, I wouldn't have thought of that. And that is beautiful.
[00:55:03] Speaker A: I've seen it the opposite way, too.
[00:55:05] Speaker B: Yes, yes, yes.
[00:55:06] Speaker A: It's both. I'm like, how is this book even popular? How does people like this book? How did you. How did you pick this book and go, I've got to read this book? Because it definitely doesn't pass the. The eye test there for sure. But, you know, not everybody can be the Goosebumps artist. So, you know, it's.
[00:55:21] Speaker B: But those guys. I mean, just those guys, too, you know, where they waited for the art to come in.
[00:55:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:55:26] Speaker B: They were lifting colors right out of the paintings to make the frame of the book.
[00:55:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:55:30] Speaker B: And change the color of the. The logo. So, yeah, every book is its own piece of art. It's its own color theory project going on. And, yeah, they were.
[00:55:42] Speaker A: Those guys were masters, and they're iconic. And I do think that's one of those. The things that will last for a long time. Again, it's one of those things. I'll pass it. And I'm one of many that will pass on this collection to my son and so on and so forth. Or my daughter. I mean, she's nine months old. Maybe she's the one that's. And the horror stuff. Younger. I. I'm so used to saying my son. Because my daughter's only been around for nine months. So it's like, for two years prior that, I was always like, my son, my son, my son. Maybe. Maybe I have to buy a whole nother collection. So they both get it.
[00:56:07] Speaker B: Right.
[00:56:08] Speaker A: I mean, that's how it is with having two kids. I have to buy two of everything. No. You know, it's fun and it's. Again, it's one of those cool. It's nostalgic. It's. But as a designer and as an artist myself, it's. That's the other part of it. It's like, you know, R.L. stein did a great job writing all these books, but to me, it's the look and the feel and holding these things and seeing the artwork that jumps out at me. And so, you know, you're the one. How I know the mask looks like in the haunted mask is because of the artwork that was on the COVID You know what I mean? Which obviously leads from a little bit of descriptions, obviously from RL Style. But seeing that image is how I know some of these things. How do I know what the Deadhouse looks like? How do I know how these things look like? It's because of the COVID of the book. And that's thanks to you. So thank you so much for doing this for so many years.
But I do appreciate you coming on here and chatting Goosebumps and a bunch of other stuff with us. We'll have to get you back in the future at some point, just chat about something else, you know. But. But yeah, thanks for carving some time out to do this, and I hope you have a fun rest of the year. This will release actually at the beginning of the year. So happy New Year. But yeah, I appreciate you taking the time out.
[00:57:12] Speaker B: Same to you. Thanks for having me.
