[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to the Capes and Tights podcast right here oncapes&tights.com I'm your host, Justin Soderbergh. This episode is once again brought to you by our friends over at Galactic Comics and Collectibles at galactic comics and collectibles.com this episode we welcome Bram Stoker nominated two time Bram Stoker nominated author Eric LaRocco to the podcast to talk about their upcoming book At Dark I Become Loathsome. Over at Big Bald Head, an imprint of Blackstone Publishing, Eric came on to talk about how they got into horror in general, to leading to writing, to leading to this book about the book and so much more. But before you listen, check us out on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Blue sky threads, all those things, as well as rate, review, subscribe on Apple or Spotify or wherever you find your podcasts as well as over on YouTube. You can check our website
[email protected] for so many more reviews, articles, top 10 lists and so much more. But this is Eric LaRocca, two time Bram Stoker Award finalist discussing their book at Dark I Become Loathsome right here. Enjoy everyone.
Welcome to the podcast. Eric, how are you today?
[00:01:13] Speaker B: I'm doing so great. Thank you so much for having me. I really, really appreciate it, Justin.
[00:01:18] Speaker A: Absolutely. It's so great. We were talking a little bit off. We're New Englanders here and what's actually kind of funny was I very rarely do I have the opportunity prior to an episode recording to meet someone. And I was going to say hi to you at the Horror Book Festival thing in October in Massachusetts.
Christopher Golden. Yeah, Merrimack and my son got pneumonia so I had to cancel the trip. But I was like, I was going to see you and a bunch of other people that I either had on the podcast or will have on the podcast. And I didn't get the opportunity. So it was going to be one of those unique things where I'm like, I've actually met you ahead of time.
[00:01:57] Speaker B: We're making, we're making up for it now.
[00:02:00] Speaker A: Exactly. It's pretty cool because I mean, I have other times, like I had Daniel Kraus on and so on and so forth and I met them after the fact. But yeah, this is the cool technology we have nowadays. Being able to do these things remotely has allowed for, for these things to happen without meeting in person. Yeah. Now we're here to, to discuss things. But yeah, so you got a big book coming out in January and before we get into that, let's just learn A little bit about who you are. Eric, how did you get into horror as a fan of horror in the first place? Let's talk about writing in a little bit. But, like, how did you get into horror as a person?
[00:02:36] Speaker B: Yeah, so I really developed a fascination with horror at a very, very young age. Probably too young to be, like, watching some of the stuff that I was watching. And my parents. My parents noticed this and, you know, some parents might have been, like, a little bit concerned or, like, put off by, like, an interest in, like, the macabre and the dark and the unsettling. And my parents were really gracious about it, really kind and nurturing, and they really encouraged me to. Instead of watching, like, the really, like, gory, like, splatter films that were coming out when I was like, eight or nine, like in the early 2000s, they encouraged me to look back at, like, the more, like, gothic and romantic films from, like, the 1920s and 30s and 40s. So I really kind of did like, a huge crash course in horror and studied the genre from, like, the early 1900s. And then as I got older, my interests obviously shifted quite a bit, and I developed a taste for a little bit darker, a little bit bloodier. And I went from the really, like, beautiful gothic, you know, romantic styles of like, Dracula, Frankenstein, and then all the. All the like, of those, like, Universal classic monster movies. And I graduated from those to the more, like, visceral, intense stuff. So like, David Cronenberg and then, you know, eventually Clive Barker just, like, completely blew my mind about, like, what horror could actually be. And from there it was just like I was off to the races. And I kind of sampled all of the different tastes I could, but I really landed on finding myself really seen in, like, extreme horror and like, splatter punk especially. So, like, Anything by Kathy Koja. Skin is a really exceptional book, which I had the honor of writing the introduction for the new edition that's coming out in 2025 from Meerkat Press, which felt like such a full circle moment in that, like, I had read that when I was in college and, like, discovering myself sexually and just like, discovering who I was just as a person. And reading that book was such a formative experience. And then to be able to, like, write the intro for it just felt like it's just such an honor. And then from there, you know, Poppy Z. Bright and Dennis Cooper just. I really kind of just explored the.
The limitlessness of extreme, transgressive horror. And that's kind of where I landed. And I still have A love for the Gothics. And the more.
I shouldn't even classify them as, like, more sophisticated because I feel like transgressive horror can be, like, very sophisticated as well.
But, you know, there's a time and place for, like, the quiet horror as well as, like, the more splattery kind of material. So that was kind of my whole entry into the genre itself. I began writing, like, at a very, very young age, just really wanting to tell stories.
And I kind of bounced around a lot from writing fiction, like, writing short fiction, writing plays. I wrote a lot of plays when I was, like, a teenager and into undergrad. And eventually I got into, like, screenwriting. And for a while I thought I was gonna go out to LA and, like, try to make a living, like, doing that.
But that didn't really work out because I eventually met my partner who I didn't really want to leave Boston.
I really just preferred to stay there with him. And that was completely my choice. And that's just, like, how my path led me to writing more fiction. And it really wasn't until, like, 2021 that I had Things have gotten worse since we last spoke come out. And that was a big success for me, a big win. And from there, it's been just so remarkable to be able to, like, put out work consistently and have people react to it. And, like, that's the most important thing for me, I think, like, at the end of the day, is that people react to it in some way. Like, I really hate the idea of viewing something with a sort of apathy, Viewing something with like, a sort, like a disinterest. Like, if you're. If you see a piece of art and it doesn't move you to, like, have this really intense reaction, whether it's, like, disgust or just being completely mesmerized by it, to me, then I feel in a way that maybe I haven't, like, lived up to what I'm trying to do as an artist.
So for me, I really live for, like, the reactions from people.
But in a nutshell, like, that's. That's kind of my whole, like, life story with, like, writing, getting into horror and whatnot.
[00:08:10] Speaker A: I feel like one of those. After you're done reading one of your books, you're always like, what did I just read?
What the hell was that? In a. Both positive and negative way.
[00:08:19] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what I live for.
[00:08:22] Speaker A: And actually, you've been beneficial in the sense, too. A lot of your covers. You start with the COVID of your book being that, you know, evoking emotion or evoking some sort of feeling right off the get go. You just mentioned things have gotten worse since we last spoke. That one. Then your new book, Dark I become loathsome. The COVID is phenomenal on those. And then from the beginning, I obviously didn't judge a book by a cover, but anybody who's listened to this podcast before, I'm a graphic designer by trade, so I'm always lucky enough to be the person who gets to judge a book by its cover because it's like, that's what I do for a living. But yeah, so it's one of those things that the second you pick this book up and then you read it, you're like, yeah, this cover goes. Cover goes well with this book pretty well. It makes you. You feel something different.
[00:09:05] Speaker B: No, totally. I feel like we live in a world. I mean, people, obviously, they say, like, we shouldn't judge books by their covers, but it's impossible not to. There's so much material out there that's, like, vying for our attention, and it really is in an author's best interest. I mean, obviously there are times when the author has, like, no creative input.
[00:09:27] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:27] Speaker B: In the COVID art process. And that, like, that fucking sucks. I've been there, that I've been in a really lucky place where the publishers that I've worked with have really trusted me and have really been like, all right, Eric knows what he's doing with COVID art. We're going to let him kind of like, take the lead here.
So, like, the COVID for a Dark I Become loathsome. Like, I picked that art piece out and then they came to me with, like, all of these different designs that they wanted to do on the COVID And I, you know, we went back and forth with, like, all right, I think this should be moved here. Like, we should put the blurb up here. But yeah, for the most part, like, with this book, like, I've had a lot of really great creative control with, With. With like, the art design of it, which has been so, so rewarding.
[00:10:16] Speaker A: And as a designer, it's. It's the most rewarding thing for someone like myself is working so closely with someone like you, like, or having this ability. So if I were to be the one, if you were to hire me, say, for an example, to do a book cover for you, I'd want to work side by side, being like, what do you want? And then because your job and your skill level is in the writing the actual physical book, and someone else's skill level might Be actually physically putting words in places that they need to be, places to make them look good or to evoke that emotion or feeling or something like that in a certain way. And working together, it's a collaborative thing. Um, so yeah, it's one of those.
I wish more people had say over. There are some people. I mean, I just talked to Tim Jacobus who was the COVID artist for Goosebumps, and Tim was so funny. I was like to find out that there was literally very little communication between R.L. stein and Tim about the COVID It was like Scholastic basically saying, these are the covers, you do them. And then that was it. Like, he just basically ran with it. And they were like such a tight timeline. They were just like, yep, looks good, let's go and move on. And then R.L. stein, they weren't like this back. I was like, I'm picturing in my mind these like, rl's being like, how about the ghost goes over here? And nope, it was literally like him just on his own island and RL doing his thing. And it's like, it is that thing. But yeah, your covers have just been so. I don't know, they just fit. Well, luckily, as I say, if you have some control over some and some not. But I know, I've seen, I read your book, I wrote a review and then I went to Goodreads and was like, let's see what other people have said about these things. I had to stop myself from actually going to look at reviews ahead of time to help, not like put anything in my head. And a number of people who have said, holy shit, this cover is just to begin with, like, let's talk about this cover.
And that's, that's a big thing. So you've, you've nailed it in that sense too. So not only is the book amazing, but the COVID is wonderful as well.
[00:12:00] Speaker B: Thank you. And I should note that the COVID was done by Sarah Sitkin, who's an amazing designer, does a lot of really weird body horror type stuff. And Sarah also designed the COVID for Gretchen Falkner Martin's Manhunt and Cuckoo. So Sarah's the best. Very, very, very talented. That's.
[00:12:20] Speaker A: That's phenomenal. I love it.
I think it breeds you. I think it breeds like what you do and what's inside the book. Pretty, pretty, pretty. Well.
So you have these books that are visceral you just mentioned. I mean, it's obviously your love for the genre of more of that type of horror that you actually get to do this and write it on the pages. But where did this book specifically we're talking about at dark. I become loathsome. Where did this idea come from? Is this something you've been working on for years in the background and just happen to now get to. Get to publish it? Or is this something that, like, you know, I need a new book. I'm going to write this book.
[00:12:58] Speaker B: Yeah. This book has been a journey and a half. I'll tell you. I first sort of. The germ of this idea really began when I was in grad school at Emerson in Boston. And I was really fascinated with.
I mean, all of my work is really like, sex obsessed, death obsessed, cancer obsessed. Like a lot of different things at play with the characters in this narrative.
And I had like, the germ of this idea to actually write it as a screenplay first. And that never came to pass.
Pitched it to my teacher and I forget what they said. Exactly. It's not that they didn't like it, but they just thought maybe I should go like a different direction. Maybe. Maybe it was that they thought it wasn't like that marketable, which I totally understand based on other things that I've had to deal with in the editing process of this book and actually marketing it. But we can talk about that later in the conversation.
But yeah, so I. I had this concept and flash forward to 2021. So, like, right after things have gotten worse came out, I get an email from a. A man who says that he's Norman Reedus's agent, which you don't believe off the beginning.
[00:14:27] Speaker A: Like, that's one of those things. I've got these kind of emails before, too. And I'm like, bullshit.
[00:14:31] Speaker B: Yeah, I was, I, like, I read it and I was like, this isn't fucking real. This isn't real.
So I sent it to my manager and I was like, can you look into this and just email him and just see what he wants? Because he talked about wanting that Norman was a fan of my work. Yeah, right. And that he wanted to commission me to write a book for his new imprint, which again. Yeah, right. So I sent it to Ryan, my manager, and Ryan got in touch and then, like, I kind of put it out of my mind because it just seemed like, so fantastic and just so out there. Like, half of the time you get emails like that, like, nothing ever comes of it. You know what I mean? Especially, like in the film world.
So, you know, a couple days pass and then Ryan calls me and he's like, yeah, like it's legit. Like Norman Reedus's agent, like, wants to set up a call with you, wants to, like, get you in touch with Norman, and they want to, like. They want you to be their inaugural title for this imprint at Big Bald Head, which is, like, an imprint of Blackstone Publishing.
And it was. I mean, it was just so fucking surreal. So amazing. Absolutely incredible. And we had the Zoom meeting, and things went really well, you know, as you can probably imagine. And from there, we drew up a contract, and they essentially commissioned me to write this book. And it felt very much like, you know, in, like, the days of, like, the Renaissance art, when, like, churches would, like, commission painters to, like, do these, like, insane, like, murals in their cathedrals. Like, it felt almost like that. Like, it felt like some huge benefactor, like, paying me to create art, which is exactly what it was. Like I was getting paid to create art by some, like, really famous patron, you know? And it was kind of like a surreal moment when. When I. When I realized that. And from there, I just started working on the book. And I knew that I wanted it to be this concept that I had in particular, because not only did I think it was obviously a really cool and interesting concept, but I thought, you know, Norman, I knew, was going to option it as a film, and I thought, well, it works really visually well. And also, if Norman got involved, I feel like. I feel like he would be perfect as, like, the main character of this piece. And it was, like, the first time that I had written something with an actor in mind for a specific character in one of my stories.
So when I think of Ashley in At Dark, I become loathsome. I immediately think of Norman Reedus, and I don't know if he'd be like. I don't know if he would take that as a compliment or based on what Ashley does throughout the book, but.
[00:17:34] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, I mean. But Norman knew what he was getting into, right? Let's be honest. It's not like he was unaware of who you are at that moment. So obviously he knew, hey, this is the book. This is the book that Eric's gonna write. It's gonna be like this.
[00:17:48] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. So it kind of. It all stemmed from that. And, you know, I finished the book and sent it to Blackstone, and they obviously accepted it. And the. The whole. The whole writing process was very, very fluid, very quick, moving, and then got into the editorial process. And that's when I really. I had a great editor at Blackstone, which Blackstone is really interesting because they are, like, a big publishing house. But they operate a little bit differently in that it's sort of once your manuscript gets accepted. I don't even know if I'm allowed to reveal this information, but I don't care.
Once your manuscript gets accepted, you get assigned a freelance editor that works on the manuscript with you in Blackstone that they hire out outside of their organization. So I worked with Melissa Ann Singer, who was a very prominent editor at Tor for many, many years. And she. I mean, she's worked with everybody from, like, Daniel Krause to. She even worked with, like, Robert Block, the author of Psycho. She knows what she's doing, and she really helped make the book so much better than that first draft was. And really, like, never, never diminished or tried to lessen my vision of what I wanted the book to be, but really helped refine it into something more digestible. And I shouldn't even say digestible, because there's a lot of stuff in the book that is, like, very hard to swallow.
But maybe she just made the book so much better is really all I can say, made it tighter and really developed certain ideas that I was playing with that were sort of, like, on the periphery of the story, but, like, weren't fully fleshed out yet. And she's just been a really great supporter. So from there, it was really easy to work with her and get the book in fighting shape. And I feel really good about the way the book turned out. Like, it's a strong piece of work.
I always. I do second guess myself sometimes with. With what I've written, but at the end of the day, like, I do. I do stand behind the art that I create. And I think that's. That's what any artist. That's the bare minimum of what they should be able to do is like, stand behind the art that they create.
And I do think that this book is very special, and I hope people give it a chance.
[00:20:34] Speaker A: And you do get that ability that. That chant that. That opportunity to. In this situation where you. You may not have. You may have been able to. Not force to, but, like, pigeonholed yourself into a position where you had to write something that was more what Norman in their group wanted specifically. And so maybe you would stand by it because you have to stand by it kind of thing, but maybe you wholeheartedly wouldn't stand by it. But it sounds like no matter what, no matter what, who's attached to this? Who edited it, who. Who's. Who's optioned it, whoever. It's is a book that you would release no matter what happened. Like this is a book that would have been made, you know, it was not. You know, with the help of Norman and big bald head and Blackstone and your editor, this is now going to be out there in a few weeks. But like it sounds like you stand by it either way. If they were just like, no, this is not what I wanted. Cool, let's put that on the back shelf. I'll write something different and that will come out at some point. Like it sounds like you're like, you know.
[00:21:23] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I had other concepts ready for them. Like if they turned this one down, like I had things ready to go. And that's the one thing I always tell other writers when I get asked for advice, which I feel so ill equipped to give any sort of advice to anybody. But some people for some reason ask me for advice. And the thing that I always say is always have a portfolio of work that you can draw on, always create so that you have something in the back pocket in case something doesn't work out, in case somebody comes to you and says this is great, but what else do you have? You know, it is so important to have something ready at the go because you don't get a second chance at some of these opportunities.
[00:22:13] Speaker A: You know, in publishing is a longer game in a sense that like you have to write the novel. It's about a year of marketing and you know, you know, we just, you talked about this being optioned or picked up by Normans Publishing imprint. That was net news was in April and the book comes out in January of the following year. So it's like, it's a long time for this news to come. All this is however, it's a fast moving game behind the scenes meaning that like if you had you pitched your idea of this book or they didn't like it, they could move on to the next author. You know, you are a talented, talented, talented writer. But like you're not the only talented writer. And so like the next person in line is you're going to get that slot potentially of this January 28th release date because they had something else to go with. And so there is that. It's slow in the process. Like that side of like, oh, I've been hearing about this book for a year now and I haven't when's it gonna finally gonna be able to read it. But yeah, behind the scenes. It's one of those things that like you could, you could have missed this opportunity if you didn't have that, that sense. But like you having That. I love how you said that. Having that hot in the hopper, almost like having that thing behind the thing. It's. It's Daniel mentioning Daniel Krause has always mentioned. I always joking, joke to him. He never writes the same genre. He's always like, unless he's like, collaborating with, like, George Romero or whatever. He's like, it's the next genre. He's got a World War II book coming out.
It's just. But. But I always laugh. I go, well, when we get to get the romance novel, Daniel, like, you got all this stuff. He goes, I got one, I got one. I'm ready. Just waiting for the right time in the right space and all that stuff. I'm like, there you go. It's when that publisher comes up to him and says, hey, do you have a romance element? Say, here you go. Got one. You got to have that here. So he goes, I have one ready. It's just not, you know, it's not going to be released to the right time. But, yeah, he's always prepared for the next thing. And I'm guessing you have five, six really good ideas that you probably want to work on at some point.
[00:23:57] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. I mean, I have things just, like, locked and loaded, ready for the next thing. I mean, it's what you said. It's such a long game, but it's so fast and it's slow.
To the outside spectator, it's a very slow process. But inside the bubble of publishing, it moves so quickly in that, like, you get approached by someone, you need to have your shit together, and you need to have that stuff ready to go. And if they turn it down, you can say, oh, well, I have this instead. And obviously, I know that it's not possible for everyone to be as prolific. There are different circumstances, and I probably come at this from a certain level of privilege saying all this, but. But if you're able to, it makes things so much easier. Makes things so much easier. If you have it ready to go.
[00:24:52] Speaker A: And at this point, you're at a position now where you've released enough stories, enough books that you have this track record, at least to you a little bit. Like, you're not just, this is not your first book. So it's really hard, a little bit harder. If you're like, I'm writing six consecutive books, one of them's in a bit picked up. A lot of times, new authors have one book because that's the book that they're pouring all their heart and soul into. And if you're trying to write six things. I'm guessing all. All six are not going to be the greatest thing because of the fact that you're spreading yourself too thin on that side of it. But yeah, I mean, that makes sense. And. And while we're in this conversation about your, your upcoming book at Dark Eye Become Loathsome. For those who don't know, do you want to give a little bit of like, I hate the word elevator pitch, but like an elevator pitch of what it is, you know, just so people don't. Who don't. Don't know what it is. Knows what it is.
[00:25:37] Speaker B: Yeah. So it is a dark I Become Loathsome is a novel about a man who goes through a series of really tragic and traumatic losses and starts to cope with these really intense losses by practicing a strange sort of ritual that he comes up with to help others who are similarly afflicted, who are grieving, affected by loss, heartache, despair.
And he engages with these people online on like Reddit type forums. Kind of lures them into his. Into his orbit. And it's really about him coping, but also not coping well with these losses. And it's really at the heart of the piece. The.
I suppose the book is really about these sort of vile, hideous, monstrous thoughts that we sometimes have.
How they are normal, but it's a problem when we put action to them and when we act upon them.
And I suppose the book is a love letter to those who feel disenfranchised, who feel completely disillusioned and ostracized from society. The book is really about the other.
And I would say, yeah, the book is like a big love letter to anybody who feels outside the norm.
[00:27:20] Speaker A: It's. I have a little notice here. Like, it's grim yet gentle, horrifying yet hopeful, intense tale of the trauma. There's love, grief, you know, this is so much more. You can tell you're passionate about what you're writing when you're writing this story too. It's not a beach read, I'll tell you that much. You're not. I mean, I guess some people might. I don't know if it depends on who you are.
Want to. I've always said this is kind of the fun things. It's like a lot of the reading I get for these advanced copies I read digitally on my phone or my iPad while my son's going to sleep next to me. Like he's in his bed and has a chair next to his bed. And he always likes until he falls asleep. And then in about 1520 minutes afterwards, I'll get up and go out into the living room with my wife and. And he's falling asleep. And I'm sitting here reading this book and I feel like. I feel like such a horrible person. I'm like, but my other option, other ways of listening things are like audiobooks in the car and he's in the backseat. So, like, there's no way. There's some books. I'm always like, ah, I gotta like, I can't listen to this in the car with him. And so like, there's some benefits is this. I listen to Mayf, not with him in the car. I listened to Mayfly, though, on an audiobook when I first read it by CJ Leed. If people don't know that is. And I was in a stoplight and I was always thinking, you know, you can always hear the car next to you. Like someone's on the phone and stuff like that. And the egg scene. And this is one of those things that people aren't going to know if you haven't read this book. But there's a scene about an egg was happening in this. In this, in this moment. And I'm looking next to me and I could. I was like, the lady in the car next to me know, can hear this, I guarantee you right now. And she's gonna be like, what the is this guy listening to next to me for sure. I'm like, I gotta rem stop at a stoplight for some of these books. I got to turn them down a little bit because I think or like, if I pull in, sometimes I pull into my driveway and my next door neighbor's like, out on her deck, I'm like, wait, she could probably hear what I'm listening to. I hope. Hope what I'm listening to is somewhat appropriate. But no, this is one of those benefits of reading something as an advanced copy in print is I got to read it in my own mind. And then people outside of me didn't hear that. And especially my son.
My son's three and a half years old. He's gonna be like, he grew up to be you. That's what it is. That's okay. I'm okay with that. He'll be growing an author that writes like you. There you go. I don't have a problem with that. No, but it's true. You have. You do have. You have a certain way of writing that that can be polarizing to some people. But a lot of us who. Who enjoy it have a space for this. Like, I Don't know, Eric, if I could read you only your books all the time. I don't know if I could only read books that are similar to yours all the time. I think I have this, this, this mixture of mystery, thriller here or a different type of style horror here, so on and so forth. You're passionate about what you write and you can tell that in multiple different ways, but you have a knack for not holding back. That's the short. And I think some of people ask her I mentioned the whole going to Goodreads and reading some other people's reviews afterwards was that there was some fear that when you went to Blackstone and big bald head that there was going to be this, they were going to, you know, tame you down too much and this like, you know, put you more into a bubble instead of allowing you to really stretch your imagination and use your talents. And you didn't. I mean this book, like I said, this book doesn't feel any different. It feels, honestly feels more polished but, but any different than anything else you've done. It feels more, it feels like you, your name on the front of it, it stands out, it makes sense. So I'm glad that you know, yeah, I'm glad that didn't happen.
[00:30:30] Speaker B: But yeah, no, I, it's interesting you say that because there were some moments in the editorial process where there were. I don't even know. I'm just going to say this just because there were elements in the book in the first draft that were very, very graphic and we, I, I had to cut them out unfortunately.
And that's, that's fine. That's part of the, that's part of the gig. That's part of working with a traditional publisher.
I totally get it. But you know, working with a publisher is a collaborative team effort. You know, I'm not just putting out this, this self published book where it's just me and even like self published books, like, you know, a lot of self published authors have people that work on the interior design, they have the COVID artists, they have whatever, they have their editor that they work with. Like you know, publishing in general. Even if you're self publishing something, it's a team effort and you can't go into it thinking you're the smartest person in the room and that like anything you say is like your way or the highway.
So that being said, I went into it, I was a little cautious, I was a little upset obviously when certain things had to be cut. There was a lengthy scene toward the end that didn't make the final cut, which was a little bit of a bummer.
But at the end of the day, did it really detract anything from the story? No.
[00:32:10] Speaker A: I mean, I didn't feel it, so I didn't know that. Right. So obviously I didn't see that coming, but so to me, it still felt like your book, and it still felt like you, again, didn't hold back. So you knowing that. But the generic public might not know that, which is great because I mean it. And here's the deal. Maybe the 20th anniversary of the book, at the republishing, you'll be able to put those things in the book. Who knows? You know what I mean?
[00:32:29] Speaker B: Yeah, I could definitely see that happening. I could definitely see putting out, like, a special edition of the book with, like, the. The redacted sort of content, the whole.
[00:32:40] Speaker A: Parental advisory sticker that used to come on CDs. Like, anything that corner, right. They'd be like, this is the parental advisory version of.
[00:32:46] Speaker B: Exactly. I always wanted a book. I always wanted a book, like, wrapped so that you couldn't open it in the bookstore because it just feels so forbidden. It feels so off limits. And just like, oh, my God, should I be reading this? I feel, like, haunted by Chuck Palahniuk. I feel like they did that with. With his book originally. I could be wrong because, let's be honest, the book.
[00:33:10] Speaker A: So I also work in the comic book field on this. On this podcast and things. And so, like, obviously there's graphics in the book. So you open the book up, you can see what's in it. And so but with a novel, it's like, yes, unless you sit there at Barnes and no more reading an entire chapter to see whether you like it or not. You don't really need to open the book. Like, I mean, opening the book is one of the. Most of us buy our books online anyway, and you don't. You just see the COVID and whatever. So, yeah, having it in some sort of poly bag of some sort where you actually can't see much and then also would give you the opportunity to put whatever the hell you wanted on the COVID too, which is another thing. And there was a comic book released last year called World Tree by James Tinian iv, that the main character's a nudist. Right? And I was like, this is a prime opportunity for this publisher to put out a black poly bag with an actual illustration of a naked person on the front of it and just be like, hey, if you want to carry it, you want to carry it, if you don't, you don't. There's other versions of it. There's other, like, covers you could put out that are like, you know, whatever, but this. And they never did it. And I was just like, this seems so crazy. Like, if you put a. I don't know, you know, naked Jean Grey from the X Men on the front of a cover of a comic book. Okay, you're stretching there. Why is she naked on the COVID Like, that doesn't make any sense. But when your main characters are nudist and is a nude in most. In some of the comic book panels, there, she's topless or walking around. This was your opportunity to do this on the COVID and they didn't do it. I thought, this is the craziest thing. Like, I'd want to be like, what the fuck's underneath that? Like, what's right? I really want to know. Like, I don't even care about the duty itself. I was just going to be like, what is there? Like, what's behind this bag and didn't do that? Opportunity, maybe. Yeah, maybe it'll be a poly bag version of this one.
[00:34:41] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm down for that. I think what I love, too, like, I love any sort of author that. Where you approach their book on the shelf with, like, some trepidation, where you're like, what am I getting myself into when I'm about to read this? Like, I feel like Dennis Cooper has that for me.
Poppy Z. Bright slash, Billy Martin, Kathy Koja.
You know, you. You really kind of do some inward reflection and you really think, what is. Like, what am I about to read? Chuck Palahniuk is another one. Yes.
You know, just really transgressive, like, forbidden sort of things. Like, I love that.
[00:35:19] Speaker A: I think it's funny you've mentioned Kathy Koja twice now that. That there's actually. I'm trying to find it here. Oh, someone wrote on Goodreads, Becky Spratford. I'll give him a shout out here. Liked your book, five stars. So there you go.
Read Alikes. Paul D. Ash Stories, what Kind of Mother, By. By Clay, by Cloud Chapman and then Kathy Kocher. So, like, you know, you made it. There you go. Some random reviewer on the Internet thinks you're very similar. So there you go. You can hang your head on that and you can sleep okay at night. No, but yeah, I mean, to someone like yourself who writes these kind of books is like. I guess there is. It's like someone being like, oh, yeah, your book's a lot like Star Wars. If you're a big Star wars fan, you know, I mean, like, there's that side of things. And, like, if someone compares you to an author that you really respect and read, and, like, then. Then I could see where it could be a positive thing in your side.
[00:36:08] Speaker B: Yeah, I saw. So we're running a Goodreads giveaway for Loadsome right now, and I took a peek at some of the reviews on don't do it.
[00:36:18] Speaker A: Why did you do that?
[00:36:19] Speaker B: I know. I'm an idiot. I know.
[00:36:21] Speaker A: But, like, I like the pain. I like the pain. It's a. It's a happy time of year right now. It's a festival. Like, it's like, you know, people are festive. And also, I got to bring myself down.
[00:36:31] Speaker B: Yeah, I just feel really bad real quick. But someone mentioned JG Ballard's Crash and that to me, I was like, holy shit. Like, yes, because that's exactly what I was going for, especially with so certain elements, like, later on in the book where we talk about, like, really dark, depraved fetishes and stuff like that.
So the Crash comparison felt really appropriate. And, you know, I'm a huge JG Ballard fan. I love Crash, love High Rise, Concrete island, like, love all of those books. So I'm like, just to be compared to some of these authors is, like, just such a dream, you know, Because I grew up reading all of these books.
[00:37:17] Speaker A: 100 I could. I could decade I could understand how you would feel that way. And it's not like you're trying to be them, but those are some inspirations. And some people that you. You feel like they've paved the way also for you, I think. Is that how that usually is? It's like, if you were the first one to do a book that is a little bit what some people can find visceral. And like I said, it's not holding back. It's not for everybody. It's not for the faint of heart, for sure. For some people, then, you might be not ostracized, but, like, put off to the side. Whereas all these people have paved the way for you to be able to do this and write books that are. Again, you're not holding back and you're telling the story the way you want to tell it, which is awesome. That's what I feel like on these. On these books. I feel like horror is such an amazing genre because it's not just as simple as horror. Like, crime fiction is crime fiction. Like, it's really hard to do something else. Okay. There's been a murder and you got to solve the murder. Okay, cool. That's basically it. But horror is so like, when I first started to get into horror, which was only recently, I mean, like, we took four years within the past four or five years.
So a lot of catching up to do on books, movies, everything is that there's just so many different levels of it, you know, like, people can watch a horror movie. I just, you know, I just watched Heretic.
[00:38:31] Speaker B: I've been dying to see that.
[00:38:32] Speaker A: It was phenomenal. And then there's also, like, Terrifier three. Like, it's like they're both horror movies, but they're not anywhere near the same type of horror. And it's like, I think a lot of people, when I tell them I like horror movies, they all go to the terrifier. Like, they all, like, think that's what you're talking about. And so I'm like, yeah, it's not the same. And I think you have this different levels of different things. And I think that you have a. You've carved yourself a spot out, that you have these loyal fans that are always going to read a book that has your name on it. And then there's also people who are going to stumble upon you and go, what the, you know, what, whatever you're like, as long as they bought it, if they bought the book, I don't give a crap what they think about.
[00:39:08] Speaker B: I mean, honestly, like, that's the, that's the dream is to have that longevity and to have like, those really devoted readers, you know, followers, and to have people just stumble upon your. Upon your work. And like you said, like, there's for horror. Horror is so diverse and so inherently just multifaceted. Like, there's a. There's something for everybody, literally, like what you just described with heretic and then Terrifier 3. And so many people immediately think of Terrifier 3 when they think of horror. They think of some, like, splatter fest. And like, Terrifier three is great. Like, there's a place for that. I hold space for that. That's amazing. But, you know, there's also other, other elements to horror where it's like, maybe more quiet, maybe like ghost horror, like the Woman in Black or, you know, something gothic like Crimson Peak by Guillermo del Toro. There's so, so many different options for you as a consumer of horror, I feel.
[00:40:08] Speaker A: And you have this space and like I said, you, you put yourself on a spot or not that you want to put yourself in that. You may mean there's a possibility for you to write a book that's more, you know, not as much splatter punk as these style books are. And I think people will still go, oh, this is cool. It's like what a musician is like. All of a sudden I know where it's like creates this, this book that's not even anywhere, this album that's anywhere near what they're used to doing. But people still go on by and they enjoy it or they don't. It's, it's, it's such a.
Again, horror is not, to me, is not as subjective in the sense that the whole genre, like comedy is so subjective in my point.
Not every joke lands for everybody. Even there's dark comedy. You know, it's just this weird thing. People put them all in the same category and they're doing that with horror nowadays. And I just think there's now so many sub genres of horror that there's something for everybody. And I do think that there will be people who won't like your book. And that's. And that's the thing about Goodreads is I work in the beer industry. As I mentioned, I'm a graphic designer in the beer industry. And it's like more people who are like one star. I don't like this style of book. So this is a horrible book. And it's like, wait a second, if you don't like this style of book, then first of all, why are you reading it? Second of all, then you can't rate it on a normal scale of something. Like in the scale of these books, I would think that you're more likely. Or horror books in general, you rate that that way. But people will do that in the beer industry. They'll be like, I don't like IPAs. One star. Well, okay, I understand it, but that's not like, that's not going to tell the IPA drinker whether or not this is a good beer or not. And that's the same thing with some of the Goodreads is that you just have this ability to just say what the hell you want, but one star. Because, you know, I read the first page, I didn't like what he was going at. One star. It's like, wait a second.
[00:41:44] Speaker B: Yeah, I really tried to say, like as much as possible just because, like, it's, it's like not for me. Like none of it's for me. Like it's for, for other readers. And I don't want to really intrude on that space. So I'd rather just like not address it. But like, you know, if we're doing a giveaway, I obviously like want to post the link.
[00:42:03] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:42:04] Speaker B: So. And I'm not sure when this is going to air, but hopefully people can.
[00:42:07] Speaker A: It will be. You'll have the ability to go on and enter the drawing. The raffling on that. I did it this morning even. Even though I'll probably buy the book too. It's always how it works. What's funny is that I've won one good giveaway on Goodreads one in the past like three years. And it was for a advanced copy because it was though they were giving away was the art copies of American Rapture. And I already had one because I was like. I was like, that's the one I win. That's the one I win is the one that I already have when I get it in the mail. Now I have two. I'm like, God damn it. I don't get to win like the finished copies. But then there's people like Blackstone and other company. Actually, Blackstone is one I asked that they're like, hey, do you want a copy of. They just email me and they're like, hey, you want a copy of this book? And I got Dark Space from Alex Segura and Rob Hart and I got Genevieve Rose book. And they're like, you want a copy of this? Yeah, cool. It's that one. The home is where the bodies are.
[00:42:55] Speaker B: Yeah, right.
[00:42:56] Speaker A: I was expecting to get an advanced copy like, hey, we've got extras of these. You want one of these? And no, it was a finished hardcover bound book and I was like, oh, this is pretty cool. But yeah, I always enter those because I love to see that. But yeah, you'll be able to enter it on there. You don't have to read the reviews if you don't want. Just go and enter it so that you don't have to spoil it for yourself.
[00:43:13] Speaker B: Because yeah, no spoilers.
[00:43:14] Speaker A: I do think that, that that reading a synopsis. I cannot read a book without reading some sort of solicitation or synopsis of the book. I need to know what I'm getting into for the most part. But yeah, reading reviews ahead of time is not always recommended because again, everybody has their own thing. And just because I say it's a really good book doesn't mean that you're going to like it. And so I think everybody should take their opportunity and read a book. I also think it doesn't take that long to read a book. And so you should probably read all of the books. That's just me. And I guess I might be on an island on that. A lot of people DNF stuff, and I'm just like, I don't know. It's. Just finish the book.
I don't think you can give a true idea of whether the book was good or not unless you finished every book, every part of the book. Because there could be a slow moment in the middle that you didn't like. And that's what you pull through. Yeah, you pull through it. And at the end you're like, holy shit. Changes the outcome of the book. So, yeah, so the Goodreads giveaway is until the 22nd, which is like, what, a week between. Week before the book comes out? Yes. There's a giveaway on there, and you can enter that on there. It doesn't cost anything. It doesn't. I don't know how many. How many they're giving away.
[00:44:19] Speaker B: 25.
[00:44:20] Speaker A: 25. So usually it says when you do it, but I don't know why it doesn't say it on here, but yeah. And so are you going to. Are you gonna go around to some bookstores in New England and stuff like that and do some signings and stuff, or are you gonna, you know, are you hitting the road?
[00:44:34] Speaker B: No, I'm like. I'm, like, doing kind of like, my first official book tour. It's kind of exciting. So I'm doing an event in Boston on release day. So Tuesday, January 28th, I'm doing an event at Brookline Booksmith in Brookline, Mass. With Paul Tremblay and Chris Golden.
[00:44:55] Speaker A: I like how you said that. I knew immediately who you were doing it with when you said that. Book star.
[00:45:00] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, they're like, the best. And I asked them, and I was like, please, will you come? Like, help me launch this book? And they're like, yeah, of course. So they're good. They're good guys.
[00:45:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:45:11] Speaker B: So we're doing that. And then the following day, I go to New York City and I'm doing an event with Clay McLeod Chapman and Rachel Harrison at the Strand.
So that's going to be pretty awesome, I think. I hope we get a good crowd for that. And then the following day, I'm doing a talk at the New York Public Library with Chuck Wendig. So that's gonna be pretty. Pretty awesome, too. And then there's a little, like, author book tour with, like, four horror authors happening in February. I'm one of them. And it's gonna be. We're Gonna go to an unlikely story in Plainville, Mass.
We're gonna go to Northshire Bookstore in Manchester, Vermont.
We're going to print a bookstore in Portland, Maine. And then we're going. We're finishing at Gibson's Bookstore in Concord, New Hampshire. And this is all going to be in the month of February, so we don't have, like, a graphic or anything prepared for it yet, but it'll be posted on, like, my socials, you know, as the dates come closer. So I'm doing, like, my own little events, you know, end of January in Boston and New York, and then I'm doing all these events, like, in New England with the group. The group of us that's going to be there is Clint Cloud Chapman, ek sat you. I believe she wrote Youth Juice, and then Dennis Mahoney, who wrote our Winter Monster, and then me. So, like, the four of us, we just go to, like, all of these different bookstores and just like, talk about horror. And it should be really fun.
[00:46:55] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, too bad you're not partnering up with any good authors or anything like that, right?
[00:46:59] Speaker B: I mean, these are kind of a bummer.
[00:47:02] Speaker A: B Crowd there to know. Just kidding. Every single one of them are bangers, I tell you that much. And I just. I read a monster movie, which is. Everybody should read. So we're just gonna talk about the opposite ends of the spectrum. Monster movies by Chuck Wendig, and it's his middle grade novel. It has such goosebumps vibes and things like that. But I'm saying, like, remember we mentioned that horror is something for everybody. There's. There's the something for everybody. You got two opposite ends of the spectrum. You got at Dark. I've become loathsome. And then monster movie on the other side of it. And you go, yes, exactly. That's awesome. That's. That's. That's so, so cool. I love. I love that part of the book and novel in horror, even horror. It happens in other genres of books as well. But, like, this horror community is so fun. And the fact that, like, you know, having the opportunity to. We just had. Joe Hill came up here because obviously I'm in Bangor, Maine, and Stephen King is from Bangor, Maine, and his family. So Joe is from Bangor as well and doesn't do very many events up here, which makes sense. It's kind of hard to do kind of things in your hometown sometimes, and you're that famous, I should say. But he came up because Keith Rosin was up here doing his bookstop for.
[00:48:10] Speaker B: I saw that yeah.
[00:48:12] Speaker A: Fever House. And now I'm Devil by name.
[00:48:17] Speaker B: By name.
[00:48:17] Speaker A: Yes. And they said they did one together and it was so cool to see them. And I've just had listen to Joe talk. I didn't hear him talking in forever because he doesn't come up here that often, like I mentioned. And Steven stopped by. It was the craziest. It was the craziest thing, just being a Rome. Like, what am I? What world am I in right now? But that opportunity, because I was excited to meet Keith, but them to be like, oh, by the way, Joe is coming too. I'm like, damn, that's so awesome. By the way. We'll just toss them right in there. Joe Hill will be there as well.
[00:48:44] Speaker B: Yeah, no worries.
[00:48:46] Speaker A: It's like you. It'll be like, oh, you get to meet Eric. Oh, that's awesome. Clay will be there too. What the. I'll be there. Sign me up. So it's pretty cool to see that happening and stuff. So January 28th is gonna be a big day. Hopefully people are pre ordering it. That's a big thing in the book world for sure. People, if you're out there, pre order it and we recommend bookshop.org I will do a little, you know, disclaimer. If you do click on the link in our bio for this thing. I do get a portion of sales as a part of promoting the book, but so on and so forth. But it also helps independent bookstores. If you don't click on it, just search it and find a bookstore. You link it to your local bookstore and they'll actually get a portion of the sales as well. Is there going to be an audiobook of this?
[00:49:26] Speaker B: Yeah, there's an audiobook on NetGalley right now, actually.
[00:49:29] Speaker A: Okay. Oh, yeah, I saw that. You want to know? I saw that. It's because the image. There's not an audiobook image on NetGalley for some reason. It's the. It's the novel image. You see the audio books come along and then it's like this big book and I'm like, what the heck is going on here?
[00:49:42] Speaker B: Yeah, Yeah.
[00:49:43] Speaker A: I almost was funny about it is if I saw. It was like last week was like Thursday or something like that, or Wednesday that came up and I was like, oh, I should. I should listen to it too, just because I want to have that ability to listen to the narrator. And then I realized I didn't have time, so I was like, I'm not going to request it because then I have to. I don't like requesting things unless I'm actually going to do it. And I felt bad from taking it potentially from someone else if I. If I listen to it. But yeah, I read this book, Cuaro, quite a while ago. I keep on looking down, but this is the book I have. This is not the book that I'm talking about. Oh, this is also phenomenal. But yeah, so I'm excited. January 28, 2025. It's right around the corner here. You can pre order it still as of this episode coming out. You will still be able to pre order it, your local bookstore or like I mentioned, bookshop.org. but my biggest thing always is you may not want to support conglomerates like Amazon, but if that's the only opportunity to get it or you're going to buy it, that's the only way you're going to buy it. Buy it on Amazon, because at least you're buying it. And reading the book is my big thing. If you can shop local, great, but don't not buy it because you don't want to buy it on Amazon. Just buy it on Amazon. Tell you that. Just don't steal it. That's my big thing is you can rent it from your library if the library has it or all that stuff, but borrow it from a friend. Just don't steal it as my big one. That's all I have to say.
[00:50:57] Speaker B: Libraries are great. We love.
[00:50:59] Speaker A: Libraries are great. And to see this book in a library would be even better. So that's a big thing. So requested at your library, too. That's a huge thing. That's actually huge for sales too. I don't know if anybody cares about that. But like, libraries are big things if you can get them in libraries. That's a big. That's a big thing to say to big bald head and to Blackstone that you can publish another one of your books in the future as we finish up here. I mean, I guess you wrote this book to be a book. This is a novel, right? This is not something that you wrote that you have intended or the reason you wrote it is because it's going to be an option. But I'm sure you're excited to see at some point when this starts to move forward and things like that and so on and so forth about that, to see how they adapted into a film and so on and so forth. That must be exciting for you.
[00:51:40] Speaker B: Oh, my God, yeah. I mean, to have Norman's support behind this is so incredible. And with. With film, I mean, you never know what really is going to happen. Everything is so ephemeral. Like, is it here? Is it really here? Maybe not. Maybe it is.
And things move at a very different pace as opposed to publishing because it feels very much like slow, slow, slow. And then like, hurry up, hurry up. And then slow, slow, slow. Publishing is always kind of just like, yeah, you know, even.
But yeah. I'm so excited to see what happens with this book in particular. I feel like it's a really visual book. I feel like it has a lot of really great like visual elements to it. And that's exactly the reason why I thought this would be the perfect project for Norman's imprint.
And I'm just, I'm interested to see like what he does with it with his production company. I don't know, I don't know really what else to expect. I actually, I, I, yeah, I really don't know what to expect with, with him and working with him in general. But I mean so far working with him has been phenomenal. Just on the book related material. But as far as film, it's kind of like open ended. It's like whatever comes our way comes our way. And I think it's, I think it's going to be exciting no matter what.
[00:53:06] Speaker A: It could take a long time. I've talked to Jay Boninzinga who just wrote who's his movie. The Killer's Game just came out with, with Dave Batista in it. And that was 20 years ago or 30 years ago that film got optioned. And so he's like, the best part about that is that every time we got optioned again, I got another check. Other than that it took forever for it to get made. So he's like, as long if the option expires and someone else wants to option it, great. I just came into my office one day and there was just a check on my desk for the next option. Cool. But then when it actually finally came out, he was so excited for it. It was like one of the longest ever like at the, that he knows of someone optioning something before it's made because either sometimes it gets optioned just never gets made. But like how long it took between the book being written and then optioned and then how long it took before it came out. But hopefully it's different on your side because we'll be following along. Hopefully we'll see something because not everybody reads too. That's the other thing is I wish everybody read. But to get this story, if you want to read this story, you want to hear what's going on so on and so forth. Sometimes you have to watch it in film. And that's, that's the cool thing about things being optioned is the different way of telling the story. You know, it's the written novel, the audiobook, and then the movie or TV show or whatever it may be. It's pretty cool. So it's exciting. I do think that everybody should pick up at Dark. I pick up Loathsome at your bookstore January 28th. Everywhere books are sold. And if you don't know if your bookstore is going to carry it, just go to the bookstore owner or someone at the desk and be like, can you guys please get this in? And they'll either pre order it for you and have one copy. And if you're anything like my bookstore owner, they'll read the synopsis and go, I'll order two or three copies of it. You know, like by saying that to them and tell them that you want it. Sometimes it's like, why don't we just order one, I might as well order three or four, and so on and so forth. So it shows interest in the book. So yeah, do that for sure, because I am a big fan of it and a big fan of yours and so keep up the good work. I appreciate you taking the time out of the day to talk to us and you know, and good luck with the release.
[00:54:58] Speaker B: Thank you so much, Justin. I really appreciate it.
