#268: Kyle Starks - Writer of End of Life

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to the Capes and Tights podcast right here on Capesandtights.com I'm your host, Justin Soderbergh. This episode is once again brought to you by our friends over at Galactic Comics and Collectibles at galactic comics and collectibles.com this episode sees the return of Kyle Starks to the podcast. Kyle is a writer and illustrator, but he's a three time nominated comic creator known for his work on Peacemaker, Tries Hard Where Monsters Lie, Rick and Morty. I hate this place. As well as the recently released wrestle heist, Devil on My Shoulder. Plus the upcoming Vertigo series End of Life with which we chatted most about here on the podcast. Before you listen, follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, bluesky, threads, all those places. You can also rate, review, subscribe over on Apple, Spotify or wherever you find your podcasts as well [email protected] for the video portion of this podcast. And as always, you can check us [email protected] but this is Kyle Starks, comic creator, talking end of life and so much more. Enjoy everyone. Welcome back to the podcast, Starks. How are you today? [00:01:01] Speaker B: I'm good. I'm excited to be back. We love to be back. We love to be welcomed back. Because it means I did okay the first time. [00:01:07] Speaker A: No, it's because I ran out of guests. Kyle, like, let's be honest. [00:01:10] Speaker B: Well, that's back to the beginning. [00:01:13] Speaker A: I have to go back to the list. Like, okay, who is on? Who would likely come back on. Let's contact. No, no, no, it's kidding. It was funny because it was like. [00:01:19] Speaker B: My schedule works out. [00:01:20] Speaker A: It works out like, it's like, okay, so like the Devil on My Shoulder gets like solicited. I'm like, oh, it'd be great to talk to Kyle again. And then all of a sudden, nowhere, it's like, right, Wrestle heist. So oh shit, let's talk to Kyle again. And then end of Life, I'm like, dude, okay, like we definitely need to get Kyle on. And I was like, usually I'm talking like a couple weeks or a week before an issue comes out. And this we're now in that situation with, with End of Life because obviously End of Life comes out February 18th, but you now have Devil on My Shoulder out. You have Russell Heist is out. And then you have End of Life coming. And then like we mentioned a little bit before we started recording, Peacemaker, Tristar in paperback comes out as well this month. So you've got a lot of stuff Going on. Like, I mean. I mean, is this just like a happenstance that all this comes together at the same time? Or is this. This is not planned. You'd be like, we're going to take. Kyle Stark's going to take over comics. Right? [00:02:05] Speaker B: No, I mean, listen, if I was. Well, if I was going to be smart about it, then Russell Heist would have came out after End of Life because a lot of people are going to be reading, I think, my work for the first time, and they would benefit more from that. So it's really foolishness on my part. And, you know, Dark Horse just does whatever they want to. I can control them with Dev on my shoulder. But yeah, it's the timing. It just kind of is what it is. Dev on my shoulder has been done for. We've did all of our stuff months ago. Right. Like, it's been done. So we don't have any control over that. Whereas Wrestle Heist is something I'm writing and drawing. So, like, I just finished drawing issue five. Like, it's actively happening. And that was it just. I wanted. I had the window. I had the window to work. And so that was the time it came out. And. But yeah, I know if I was smart about it, like, if some. If I was very smart about it, things would be scheduled in a way that I would benefit from. Maybe the best. The biggest book of my career coming out this month. [00:03:00] Speaker A: Yes. And his fans, like. Like, there are fans of Kyle Stark, fans that were, like, now they have to go to the store and potentially buy. Like, oh, I gotta buy all the costs. Sometimes they come out in the same week. Luckily they're weak. I think they're usually. Right now it seems like they're at least a week or so off, you know, I mean, so, like, they're not all coming out on the same week. They might have some that end up that way. But it seems like as of right now, it's like you can get Wrestle Heist this weekend definitely on my shoulder and so on and so forth. And they're three different books. Like, there's not even. Like, they're like, there's some similarities in some styles of things, but, like, obviously your voice is there. But like the Devil on My Shoulder, that might be most, like the brutalist and like, most unsettling horror that I've read from you. I mean, you've got to agree with that, right? [00:03:38] Speaker B: Oh, for sure. Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, so Devil on My Shoulder, which is a bloody revenge. And we always try to make the things that we kind of wish existed. And I haven't seen a good bloody revenge in a while. And I had a really good idea for it, and Peter wanted to work with work again. And each book that we do is like, I'm trying to. Maybe I want to do this new subject, but also often I'm trying to correct some problem that I've made in the past. Notably, like I thought, assassination. I did assassination as a mystery, and it's not a very good mystery. So when I did Six Sidekicks of Peter Keaton, I was like, that's a good mystery. And that's really what it was like. I failed on my mystery. I wouldn't make a good mystery. And then Pioneer Merrimack, like, sometimes we just keep going. The Pioneer Merrimack was really. I just wanted to write people loving each other a lot and being in dangerous situations. So when I did those Not Afraid, which was a book that came out last year, which is about two serial killers trying to break the state record for serial killings, I was like, this is very dark. This is very serious. Which is also what I thought about I Hate this Place, which was nominated for best humor publication. So I was absolutely wrong there. And then those Not Afraid, which I thought was very dark. It just. I can't help myself. Like, the characters are charming, and the way they interact is charming. And that's funny because that's the people that. That's what I think a charming person is like. They're funny and you want to be around them. So when it's trying to create. I wanted to do horror because we do horror, because we like horror, scary things. And I want to do something that was dark and scary and wasn't funny at all. Because I feel like. Though I love humor in my horror films, I like. I like everything and everything. I want to do something that's very dark and very disturbing and tell a story using those tools. And I think I did. I'm very pleased with it. I just got to check issue four, I think, last month, and I was like, yeah, it does everything I wanted to do. It tells a story in an interesting way, I think, where it does a lot of sort of back and forth and back and forth and sort of unfolds what I think is a really fun and cathartic violent murder story. Yeah. But it's not like anything else. Also things that I would have planned differently is that in that regard, End of Life, I think, is an extremely. Kyle Stark's book. It is extremely me. And having three fairly different things at the same time is probably confusing for consumers. So, again, if I would have thought the whole thing out, I would have probably done it differently. But, yeah, it's definitely my darkest book. That's why we put a, like, a trigger warning in the front of issue one, because we thought, well, if someone bought Where Monsters Lie, which is just a fun monster romp, like a fun horror romp, and then you're like, oh, we want. He's doing another one. Like, no, I'm not. It's dark. Sorry. I like horror. I like horror. So I did a horror book. [00:06:15] Speaker A: This. It's. [00:06:16] Speaker B: It's. [00:06:17] Speaker A: It's great because it fits that way, but it's also, like I said, I wasn't expecting it as much. I was just, like, opening the book up. I was like. I was like, literally, like, holy shit. And I think I went into my comic book store, like, my buddy's shop, and I was like, dude, I love. That was freaking dark, man. Like, that was just like. And it's great. And at the end, you see it, and the reason why she wants revenge, and she's going to be on this revenge. It becomes more of a revenge horror as the book in the series progress, which is awesome, but it was just kind of funny. And then I'm like, but that's also like a palate cleanser a little bit, like, to then, like, be like, oh, I'm gonna read Wrestle Heist. Because, like, it's not that. It's. It's. It's your. Your. Your style of artwork, which obviously you're illustrating it and writing it, which is. Which is pretty cool. And so it's like a cartoony. It's more playful. And so we're just not Peter's style. Peter definitely does a really good job with the horror side of things. But, yeah, it's like, it's nice to see that it was almost a palate cleanser between this. Because End of Life isn't horror, but it's like. It's action, it's adventure, that spy heist style, but it's dark. It has some moments of. You can tell that you also write horror, but it's not horror, if that makes any sense. So you have that little in between with Russell Heist, you have a little breather if you want to take them that way. [00:07:33] Speaker B: A fun, silly little romp. It's fun. [00:07:35] Speaker A: It's like you said. You said End of Life is really you. But, like, also, like, you can tell by. By Russell Heist if the passion project for yourself, like, it's you writing, you illustrating. And it's a subject matter that you really enjoy too. And it's funny. And so there's that. That. That Kyle Stark's stamp on it too. So like you say, End of Life is definitely which it is, but I think Wrestle Heist is also you. [00:07:54] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, anything that. Anything I write and draw is very. Is extremely me. The Russell Heist is very light and it does have emote. I think there's bits that are emotional in it, especially as we go forward. That issue three, I think, has some. Some really strong emotional character beats. But it's like I did that as I did Wrestle Heist. I chose Wrestle Heist as a subject matter specifically because I didn't want to stress over it. Whereas End of Life is something that I'm pouring so much into. And like I said, I think it's the most Kyle Stark things in regards to. If I look at, like, the broad view of what I want, I want everything in them. I want there to be action. I want it to be weird characters. I want to be fun characters. I want to be scary characters. I want to be fun situations. I want to be dangerous situations. So it has like, literally End of Life and we're eight issues in. That's not right. I'm about to write issue 10. We're nine issues in. Does everything I wanted to do. Whereas Resol Heist is the romp. It's just. And I. Which I think is fun. I think it's fun. I think if you don't like wrestling, you'd like it because it's a heist book. If you don't like wrestling or heist, then I guess skip it. I don't know. If you don't like having. If you like having fun, I think it's a good for that. But it's like End of Life is like. If I was going to rank things in the order of, like, how much it's. It has everything I want in it, without fail, it's going to be like Peacemaker, End of life. You know what I mean? Like Rock Candy Mountain. You know what I mean? Even though, like, I don't like. I don't like period pieces, it does everything I want to do. Where is that? There's good action, there's interesting characters, there's a journey where it feels like the momentum is fast, like things are constantly happening. But you have, like, these charming little interactions and you have these interesting characters. And basically anything that is, like, as close to like, Kyle Stark's preacher. Like, if I Had my own creature. And I think end of life does it really well in that it just moves without changing locations. I mean, it all takes place in that little. This little dinky town called Pluto. And I feel like it's like if preacher never went anywhere. I mean, I really feel like it has that sort of energy of what's happening next, like, who's showing up next and how is he going to get out of this. And do we even like this guy? Like, which I love. Like, like, that was when I got. [00:09:59] Speaker A: Out of the first issue. I was like, wait, like, is this like, do we like. I mean, do you like anybody? Like, his dad seems like kind of a dick. He seems like kind of a dick. I'm like, everybody just seems like kind of a dick in this, in this thing. And I think it's kind of. It's. You want to. You know, people hated Negan in the Walking Dead, but people wanted to like him. So like, I feel like you have this. Characters that you've created that are unlikable, but we all want to like them at the same time. We're confused in that sense. [00:10:20] Speaker B: Like, I don't know which, you know, your first issue, like, second issue, like the relationship change. And I'm, I'm really proud of that book. You know, we always put too much of ourselves in a bit. I feel like very much. And I hate to like, like box it in as being like, this is like a very male oriented book, because I don't think it is, but I think it's very much like that 22 to 24 year old period of a. Of a man where you quit being a boy and start to grow up and, and like, that's a hard, challenging change. And if that's happening in the midst of everyone, Earth wants you dead, including your estranged father. And like the estranged father has good reasons because you're kind of a ding dong. Like you're kind of a jackass and sort of growing out of that. And I don't know if he necessarily grows out of it, but he does sort of learn. Like, it's like the moment. There's a. There's a period, I think in a lot of people's lives where you quit being selfish, where you have to like, life says you can't be selfish anymore. And I think it's a really interesting period and it sort of covers that. But at the same time, like, he's shooting somebody. Every. There's a gun, there's a shootout every issue, you know, so it does. Like, I love That I love it when there's a sort of a through line and having again, I think, I think it's like wrestle heist. It's like, I think this is for everyone. I think this is fun for everyone. But, you know, if you have a dead parent, I think maybe it'll hit a little bit harder. If you have a parent who's sick and dying, it'll be, yeah. So as you go through, like, I think all those things weigh in and there's a bunch of like things that are unrelated to that, but like, he's his first love. Question Mark happens to be in this town too, which complicates someone because if you're a very selfish person to be confronted with the person who actually cared about you in the midst of you trying just to survive. Like, he has no intention of staying in this place. It's like suddenly there's reasons to stay in this place that are interesting. I'm just really proud because it does everything. It's. It has, it does have, I think, some horror, I think, especially like we just finished, I think 8 and 9, which I know we're down the road. 8 and 9 is like a two issue arc that's all horror. It's just a horror to work, in my opinion. It's. It's the, it's the Zed's Dead sequence of Pulp Fiction where it's like, I think this is awful. Like, this isn't funny at all. It's there, but like, it's so good because. Because Steve does such a good job. So it's like I'm doing everything. And like, that's the great thing about the setting and these characters and, you know, the opportunity to especially do as many issues as I'm for sure getting to do, which is there's gonna be 12. There's for sure gonna be 12. Hopefully it does well enough. There's what's 6, 18. We'd love for there to be. I'd love to do 36 of it. You know what I mean? I'd like to do it for a while, but you never know with modern stakes. But yeah, so it's very much like it's a very high on that. It has everything in it. You know what I mean? It has everything in it because I think people will cry at some point and I think you're gonna laugh and you're gonna be like, that's cool. And like, these characters are awesome. I want to spend more time with these characters. And that's like the most me thing. [00:13:10] Speaker A: It's funny because, like, you have this character whose life is basically falling apart because someone's after him. Like, you could die any minute now. And you come home and hoping to get a safe space and knowing that the relationship with him and his dad is not great, but still the. Then you come out and they land the bomb on you that he's also, he's dying. And. And so I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, it just, it's like this. Like my life is shit, but all of a sudden now you find out someone else's is also shit. And it's like, how are you gonna relate to this? And that, that to me was at the first issue, you know, is really about, in my opinion. But it also has this dark humor. Like, I feel like one of my favorite things about stories are stories that don't 100% take itself seriously all the way. Because I feel like. Well, I always say what I say to my wife is like, there are people who fart at a funeral. Like, it's, it happens. Like you. There's not every funeral you go to, everybody's just like, somber. Like there's someone telling a joke about the history of this person or whatever or the way someone. Like, there's always this lightheartedness in some sort of dark and sad moments. And this is a very, very moment where he's. Like I said, there, there are people after him. His dad, he found out his dad has cancer. But there's still funniness in there. That's that dark humor in it, which is, I think, like I said, it's kind of you. It's, it's like you always have that little bit, like, I hate this place. Like, I think I mentioned it. My review's not out yet, but I remembered in it that it' I hate this place was also dark but also, like, funny. And it actually got nominated for comedy. So it's kind of funny. Hopefully this doesn't get nominated for comedy because there is comedy in it, but there's a lot more stuff in it. [00:14:33] Speaker B: But we want that nomination. We'll take best new series. You know what I mean? Best ongoing. You know what? Eisner. Look, we say with a three time Eisner nominee, we'd like to be. To change. I just printed a table runner that says three time Eisner nominee on it. I'd like to be like, man, it's been. I spent money on nothing. [00:14:49] Speaker A: Yeah, you want to be able to cross it off when you go to a convention. [00:14:52] Speaker B: Yeah, we'll see. We'll see. I opened up for all those things. [00:14:57] Speaker A: You know, it has all that stuff in it. I think that's just really cool. So what. Speaking of. You obviously have another issues coming with this, with the series, but it's that Vertigo is the Vertigo imprints, the return of Vertigo. Is that also something cool and special for you? I mean, as knowing how the iconicness of the vertical imprint and it's. You're part of the. The real relaunch of it. Like one of the first new series to come out from that Vertigo. [00:15:19] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm the second new series right after Dennis Camps. Bleeding hearts. I mean, it's difficult to talk about, to be. To be honest about. Like, it's such an honor that they asked me. Like, it's such an unbelievable honor. And there I just had to talk with someone where they're like, like, what would. Like, are you freaking out? Like, is it the cool. You know what I mean? Like, is it super cool? And I don't think I've quite wrapped my head around that because of the anxiety around having something that will be so visible. That's so distinctly me. I do think, what an honor to be so here. I just have to talk about, you know what I mean? It's tough to talk about because there's so many complicated relationships we got asked to do. They used to do these things where they talk about like what vertical books were coming out. Be like a one page ad and then they had people right at the top of it and do you remember those? Yes. By any chance they were. Okay. Yeah, they were in D.C. books. And like, so they're like, we're having you guys do these. Do you want to do it? I'm like, of course. And I was like, do you have any of the examples? And they. Yeah. And they sent me like Paul Pope and Brian Azzarello and Peter Milligan. Right. And their little, their little write up is like, let me tell you why this book is so cool and important and like meaningful. And I think I'm. I think I'm the first Vertigo book that's not that. You know what I mean? Like, like, I just. It's like, it's what that's, that's like the part that's like, this is a real honor because I feel like, I feel like Preacher is funny. It's, to me, it's very Preacher esque. Like, there's comedy in there, but there's all these other things. Like, don't call the comedy. No one would be like, Preacher is the funniest book I've ever read. Even though you know what it might be. You know what I mean? It might be because there's some hilarious stuff in it. [00:16:57] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:16:57] Speaker B: It's like, that's what I don't want people to call End of Life a comedy book. But it's like I feel like I'm maybe the first one that was intentionally so that was chosen to be Vertigo. That wasn't like a one shot or like sort of a mini throwaway. But so in that regard, it's like, what an honor. And also again, what an honor to be asked to be part of this rollout. But also what huge anxiety. And if you look at the creative teams that they chose and we were the first ones chosen, it was me and Steve, it was Chris and Jacob, and it was Dennis and Stipend. And when we were chosen, this was over two and a half years ago. Like, we're Dennis, wasn't Dennis then. You know what I mean? Dennis had done 20th century men and that was it. Yes. And that's it. Like, that's what he had. He had one book out. And I remember specifically talking to Chris Conroy and being like, is Ram V or Scott Snyder not doing one of these? Like, because it's a group that retailers aren't going to go, oh my gosh, here's Vertigo and it's Tom King Snyder, Ram V and James Tinian's new books. Right? Where they're gonna go. These guys have always sold well for us. These guys always make us money. How exciting. It's at the time I'm gonna say three double A players. Like, you know what I mean? Three double A, not aaa, not majors, like double A. And since then, Dennis has gone and won a Cy Young Award, basically, Right? He's. He's maybe the hottest. It's gonna be him and Scott Snyder for Writer of the Year. I don't think there's any argument about that. And that's not to say there aren't, in my opinion, equally talented writers, but what they did for the industry and for themselves is such a huge jump. But like Condon is. I think Condon is on that list of great writers, but unknown in many ways. An unknown commodity. We're not run B. We're not Dennis. We're not Dennis 20, 25. And it's very anxiety ridden because why would retailers necessarily be excited about us? I don't think they are. I think they're excited about Vertigo. Yeah, but we, But I have read all these books and all these books are really good, and they're really unique. There's nothing else like them on the shelves. And I don't think anything's been on the shelf anything like those three books. And Nice House on the Sea is one of the best books of all. I mean, it's one of the. If you're the best books of this century, like those Nice House books, if you don't put on the list, you're not reading enough comics, because they're beautiful and they're masterfully written and anyone could enjoy them. Like, they're so good and they keep getting smarter, which is hard. At issue seven is what, two. There's three volumes. Is that right? [00:19:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:19] Speaker B: Like issue 16, right. Basically. No. Issue 18 or 19 or 20? Yeah. Yeah. Was it 12? They're crazy good. [00:19:25] Speaker A: They're 12 issues each. Yeah. This would be 19. Yeah. 19, I think. Drops, like, literally, like. Like when we're. As we're recording, Wednesday is number seven. [00:19:32] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's for the second. Unbelievable. So am I excited. I'm thrilled. What an honor. And I say that sincerely. But if. If it fails, whose fault is it? It's Kyle Starks. [00:19:43] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. We haven't built, like, I guess I think there's this. This. This discussion inside local comic book shops when the announcement came of Vertigo returning, and then. Yeah, you mentioned not having those names. I mean, the first new book to have the Vertigo logo back on it was like issue two or three of Nice House, Nice House by the Sea. And so it was like seeing that come back. But then it's been obviously a little bit of time. Like, it's been those issues have come out and so. And so. But, like, nothing new has come. And this is. We're ready for this, and I think people are ready for it. So I think the Vertigo is going to attach people to it. I think people are just going to want to look at these new books and Bleeding Hearts and End of Life will be those. Those books. Because I think we just have this history of, like, looking back at these vertical books and been like, holy shit. And we sat there at my book club this past week. We actually read over Christmas, over December and January. We read. We took one month off. We read the Deviant by the Deviant. [00:20:35] Speaker B: So good. [00:20:35] Speaker A: So good. And so we read that, and we're just. We talked about, like, Vertigo came up and all this stuff, and we were talking about why the Last man and all these different books were like these impactful books. It's like the name. Yes. And, yes, you're right. This Book does seem a little bit different, but, like, End of Life is gonna fit that. I think it fits that. The vibe that I think that I'm so pumped that DC is bringing back because it's this creator owned by like, it's like this, like, you know, it's the image of dc. And I think that I'm a huge Marvel fan and I would love for that to be exist in the Marvel universe world too, as well, of having this, like. And they're kind of doing this with red band stuff. And like, I feel like Alias is coming back and they're doing this, like, I know it's all still within the Marvel Universe, but they're still trying to do this, like, darker stuff. And I wish that they would just do that whole, like, independent style in the big house kind of thing, because I think it's cool. I think you're bringing some of these names in there, like I said. But you guys, two of you guys killed it on Peacemaker too. So, like, people, if you're DC fan and you read Peacemaker tries hard, you know that what the creative group that's coming to this book. So you kind of like at least a sense of how you guys work together, not the story itself, but like, how you guys work together and how the flow works and stuff like that. I mean, you must. [00:21:46] Speaker B: I think you would probably be. I think you'd probably be surprised at how many copies Peacemaker sold. I don't think it's my best selling book. I think it's my second best, maybe. And I never saw like the number one issue sale, so I can't say, but I know what my royalties are, you know, so it's kind of surprising. And why you go, why is that? Like, I don't know. People thought it was phenomenal. I don't know. [00:22:06] Speaker A: Yeah, it's phenomenal. I mean, I'm surprised it took so long for a paper trade back because, I mean, was it like. Was it two years ago or something like that? A year ago? [00:22:13] Speaker B: Listen, I don't want to speak poorly, but why would that paperback not come out October when the final and only second season was coming out? And you could have sold it? But I don't know, we have this. [00:22:22] Speaker A: Discussion all the time. Like, Hulk, the she Hulk series came out and a little. She must have been like eight or nine years old, came in the comic book store when I was hanging out in there, and the mom was like, do you have any Shelk trade paperbacks? And he's like, obviously. And he looked nothing and he went on at the time, went on to what was a diamond or whatever was at the time and was like, there's not even any available. Like, I can't even order any. [00:22:44] Speaker B: There are. They're sold out. Like, whatever that. That last. Like, Charles Soul sold out. [00:22:47] Speaker A: You know, I mean, like, it's like, what the hell? You can't get these things regularly. Where's the timing on this? I thought the whole thing back in the day where they created action figures and cartoons to sell the action figures, and it was all timed out perfectly. Where the hell is that? [00:23:00] Speaker B: Two different industries that aren't failing, by the way, like, aren't suffering in any way in 2026. That's universal. But my new thing is, like, they told me. They told me I have to promote the software is like, I feel like Peacemaker has to be a compact edition. I just feel like it will do so well as a compact edition because the people who are trying those out will go, oh, Peacemaker. I know that. And I think it'll do really well because I say. And I say it humbly, I say jacket. I think me and Steve made something classic. I think that's. And I say that as a fan of comics. I think we made something that's, again, relatively unique. There's not a lot like it. I. You did say why the Last Man? I think Pete Preacher and why the Last man are the two things that are closest to what I do. So they do it at a. At a far more cerebral, higher level than I do. That just. I'm not going to say I'm as good as innocent Brian K. Vaughn, because I'm not. But I think it's. If you. If that's two series that people enjoy, I think they'll really like End of Life because it scratches an itch that hasn't been. That doesn't exist in the big two at all. And it's the type of thing that I really like doing. So, yeah, the creator own thing. I was talking to Content today and we're actually complaining about something else, about how, like. And I. Someone said, like, oh, this could. We could have done this at Image. You know what I mean? It's like we could have done an image. But I like to. I like to think of it as DC messed up and we got to make whatever we want, and now they're stuck with it. And that's way more fun than trying to independently do it. Like, because now it's like, it's not just the same as, like, I mean, wrestle I. I'm so proud of it. It's so much fun. It's exactly what I want it to be. But, like, it'll be gone. You know what I mean? That's just the nature. Whereas guess what? We're third wave Vertigo, or whatever it is forever. And when, when you go to Wikipedia, it's going to say my name, your name, Dennis name that he's going to say first. And that, like, that changes the nature of the book. And it's also why I think you go, well, I could have done this. I could have done this someplace else. Yeah, but we're all trying harder. I've read all these books. They're so good. We're all trying harder. That condom Jacob Phillips book is really good. And I know for a fact, I think it's six issues. I know it's six issues. I think the last two issues, it escalates and changes in such a way that will blow everyone away and hopefully they should be reading anyway. I think those guys are the new. It's a bad example, but they're the new Brubaker Phillips. I think Condon is literally, literally young Brubaker in terms of how he writes, how well he writes and how his characters are interesting and you're engaged and Jacob Phillips is just like his dad. It's the same. Like, they're just like, the apple did not fall far from the tree. So I think people are gonna. My thing is, I think people are really gonna like Dennis's book because it's Dennis and they're gonna like it no matter what, because that's where he's at now. And shout out to Dennis, he's the nicest guy and he's the smartest guy and he's really talented writer. So I think there's. It wouldn't matter what he put out. There's. He's. He's too hot and too popular that people are gonna be like, yeah, maybe not this one. Yeah, it's too. This. This isn't the book that'll do it. And also Stipend's art is so good. It's so good, it can't fail. Like, I mean, it's just. It's such a beautiful looking thing. And Dennis is just so smart and, you know, like, I think it's one of the concerns. You go, what's about? It's about. Oh, it's. Zombies have feelings. It's like, well, who gives a. I think it's like the. You know what I mean? Because. Oh, but it's written by it's written by maybe the smartest guy, like, the most in touch with modern, like, sort of societal concerns and like. Like you couldn't ask for someone else. I know. Yeah. The art is. Listen, if Nice House on the Lake didn't exist and I was a better promoter, I'd say it's the best art coming out in the sport. The guy does nice. Alvarez. I can never. His name for them bad. Yeah. He's so good. It's not fair. Like, it's just simply not fair to anyone else. The stipend's right there, if not above. It's so good. That's going to blow people away. So, like, you know, it's. I can't remember the point. I know it's going to be as disparaging into life in some regards, but. Oh, Dennis is like. Dennis won't fail. Dennis isn't going to fail. This isn't. This isn't the window of his career where he's going to. And I think when people. I think a lot of people be reading content for the first time, which is crazy to me. I thought everyone read. I thought everyone read West Texas Blood. I thought everyone read that. Like, why wouldn't you? [00:27:02] Speaker A: I mean, News from the Fallout was one of my favorite comic books of last year of 2025. Like, so, like that movie, that book. He killed it on that. And I think it was a picture of that in the. In the minimalistic of the artists of the. In the End of the World and like this aspect of it. But Chris is phenomenal, and I think it's amazing. Phenomenal. Obviously, Jacob Phillips is. Is amazing artists as well. But like, in your. This is three books. It's the 11th of February, it's the 18th of February, 25th of February. You have these books coming out every week. So you have something special. And you're right, it probably is strategically. Well, really well done to do Dennis, as the first book to release on Vertigo. It's a new book. It's all this stuff, but, you know, you're batting second. It's not like. It's not horrible. It's. But you put right in between it. You got this. You got to get the Conan and Phillips, and you got the first book coming out. You're right in the middle there. So if people. People hopefully will forget. [00:27:49] Speaker B: You know, it's. It's four real different looks in terms of storytelling. And again, they're all good. I'm excited about it. It's just. It's very anxiety rich. So, I mean, that's like we go all the way back. Like, are you, are you stoked? [00:28:00] Speaker A: Are you? [00:28:01] Speaker B: I. I don't know. It's. It is weird. If I, if I step back and, and look at it from like a lifetime, it is pretty weird because, you know, I never thought I'd make comics for a living. That was never my intention. Like, I many ways fell into it. And so every time anything's happened, I've always been like, what weird luck. What weird good luck. When I did Lobo cancellation special, that was the first time I went. 17 year old me would be losing their mind. Like, that was the first time. And you know, I did, I've done Thanos, I've done. I may have done Marvel, I've done Peacemaker, which Peacemaker is so modern thing to me, even though it's not. But who that character is and why they matter is so modern. It's like they let me do something new, you know what I mean? Like, it's not like. But man, Lobo is like, this is crazy. Like, I'm following the steps of Keith Giffen, RIP Doing a book that, like, I bought. Like, like this was a book that I bought every time it came out. And we were huge in divert. Like, we were deep and we were so deep in the vertical. The books I thought were Vertigo aren't even Vertigo. And I got told by James Robinson that I was wrong and I was stupid. But like, in my head I was like, oh, well, that's to me like Doom Patrol. Grand Morrison. Doom Patrol is Vertigo. Like, I know you can say it's not, it's not, but it is. Yeah, that's just how it is to me. But when those books were coming out, we were way into it. I was late on Second Wave, which I read Scalp, we love Scalp, we love why the Last Man Preacher I was getting when it was coming out. We love Preacher, all the Peter Milligan books. Like the 4000 Peter Milligan, Vertigo books, Animal man, obviously anything Grant Morrison, obviously. So it's like, it is cool and it's cool to be so different, but it also causes me a lot of anxiety. That's the real answer to that, because I think the book's good. And I say that I know the book's good. If someone, if someone else wrote that book and I read it, I'd be like, that was fun. Like, that was a good, fun book. So it's a lot of people seeing it for the first time and that's where the anxiety is, is that people have to be ready to like, something. And you never know. You just never know. [00:29:55] Speaker A: And more. I got more eyes. There's more eyes will probably be on it because of the fact that a. Like, you mentioned Peacemaker was. Was successful, but also because you have this. This. This big comic book publisher behind it. Like, it's like, you know, you're being the second or third book. You are at the beginning, so they're still. They're gonna push even harder. Like, there's. There's press releases that come out. There's things that come out. If you were like, the 10th or 11th book to come out and things weren't going as well at Vertigo as they wanted to be, it might be one of those things like, okay, let's get him out. But, like, you're at the beginning anyway, so you're gonna have to be promoted anyway. You're one of the first. You know, the first three weeks of Vertigo comics being released again, you're part of that. And so I think there's that to it. I think, like, you mentioned, it could be at Image. It could be anywhere, but. But it's fun. It seems like it's at home, and it does seem like it's at home. I've heard of, which is really cool. And I've never. I've been a DC fan, but, like, not a huge DC fan. So, like, this is also kind of cool to me because it's like, okay, now I can actually go out there and do some of this stuff. And I always used to give crap to people, be like, I buy DC Comics. I buy DC Black Label. And they're like, that's not the same because you're buying Nice House at the Lake. And that's not a. It's technically a DC book. We're not really a DC book. And I like. Yeah, but this year is my year. I told my. My friend who. Who helps with comics of the year at the end of the year. He's a LCS owner. And I said, hey, I'm gonna read a lot more Big Two this year. I think. I think I just. I just didn't do it. In the past couple years, there's been certain books. Like, obviously, over the past couple years, I've read Peacemaker because I'm really a fan of yours. And so. But, like, this is my year. So I just read Iron man by Joshua Williamson was. Was. Was great. I was very happy about that. And obviously, Joshua Williamson, I can't. You can't really go wrong with Josh. But, like, this is the year. And Lobo Scotty Young's doing Lobo this year, which is. Scotty is one of my favorite comic creators. [00:31:29] Speaker B: No, no, we don't talk. We don't talk about that. We're not talking about. We don't talk about that specific. [00:31:35] Speaker A: But it's true. Okay, we'll pass that. [00:31:40] Speaker B: No, I feel like, personally, it's my opinion someone else should be doing that Lobo ongoing. And I don't want to say who it is, but it's me. No, we love Scotty. He's gonna do great. Apparently Scotty's been wanting to do Lobo for a long time, so, you know, it's going to be in Jorge Corona's. Unbelievable. [00:31:54] Speaker A: And with the Lobo being in the movies, it's going to be a huge. Like, just a huge year for Lobo, I think. I think in that sense, too. But yes, I would have picked it for you too, but I just. Like I said, when Scotty's attached to it, I have to go. I'm gonna have Scotty tattoos, dude. Like, I have, like. [00:32:07] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Okay. [00:32:09] Speaker A: Okay. [00:32:10] Speaker B: Did you have to roll the dice to get those? [00:32:11] Speaker A: No. So my son's name is Nova. And so I got Nova and then, yeah, other ones, like Gertrude, obviously from. And then I'm big, big Run the Jewels fan. So this is the Run the Jewels logo. But yeah, so. So I'm a Scotty fan, but, like, I'm also a Scott Stark fan. Like, I mean, like, let's be honest. But I would have. I would have been all on board for that, too. I think a Lobo book by you and Steve would have been great, too. I think that partnership would have been great, too. [00:32:37] Speaker B: Steve works great with me. Kyle Hots murdered it on my Lobo. Like, I don't think there's. That's the thing. I'm so biased because I feel like it was such great casting for me and him to do it. I agree with Scott. I mean, listen. And again, Scotty's a mega talent. Scotty sells. You're going to put him on a book before you put me on a book. But they would be the second theme I chose just because Kyle Hods, I think, looks like it feels like Bisley. You know what I mean? But a clean, readable, clarity Bisley. [00:33:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:33:02] Speaker B: And I also think I will say, like, even though I'm talking, it's like, I don't think I would want to do an Ongoing. I don't think he's suited that way. I think the best way to do. To do him in my Opinion would be to do like four 48 page books a year. I think that's the way to do is for one shots, basically. Because even though we love Lobo, those Giffen books were four or five issues, you know what I mean? Like, they weren't long. So I feel like it's kind of like Rick and Morty where, like, they work best when it's episodic. It works best when you're kind of in and you hit a bunch of home runs and then the next one, you know, there's space dolphins or whatever. I said because I'm glad love was back. I'm glad he's around. I wish my book was in print so that it would benefit from that movie coming out, but it's not. [00:33:37] Speaker A: Yes, that's always something. Oh, it's always something with Kyle. [00:33:41] Speaker B: He's never happy. [00:33:42] Speaker A: Exactly. Right? Yeah, exactly. [00:33:45] Speaker B: It's. [00:33:46] Speaker A: So you have End of Life on Vertigo. You have Wrestle Heist. You have Devil on My Shoulder, Peacemaker, you. Also, Unprintable Rick and Morty is coming to right around here too. Right? Unprintable Rick and Morty. [00:33:56] Speaker B: It was in the Kickstarter. I mean, it's only in the Kickstarter. You had to do the Kickstarter to get it. I think those are already gone out. I haven't seen it yet. But yeah, one more and I have. We did the Where Monsters Lie. [00:34:05] Speaker A: Yeah, I got the email right as you were signing on. Like, signing. Right, signing on. I got the Kickstarter, like alert, so. [00:34:11] Speaker B: That'S coming out real soon. And then I think there's plans for Where Monsters Lie coming that will be announced by Dark Horse soon. So there's stuff happening. But then, you know, honestly, that's it. Like right now, like, I'm. I'm literally trying to figure out what's next. I have. I have three more issues of End of Life to write. I'm done with Wrestle Heist. I'm done. Devil My Shoulder 3 comes out in February. Wrestle Heist 3 comes out in February. Yeah, I'm done. I'm trying to figure out what's next. So it's like, there's a lot right now, but there's nothing tomorrow per se. So we're trying to figure out what's next and what's smart with the state of the industry. But I'm also waiting to see what End of Life does. We got our numbers and. And they're our FOC numbers were great for an independent book. Maybe not great for a D.C. book. Like Will. Will. That book Am I going to be doing. The joke is absolute nort. Will I be doing absolute nort, you know what I mean, in four months or, you know, absolute Blue Beetle or whatever. Guy Gardner. [00:35:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:12] Speaker B: Who knows? I hope so. Like, I would love for people to be like, oh, look, he's pretty good. Here's some opportunities just because we have to do it. The thing is, like, I can. Oh, I've been doing independent. So I've been doing independent comics for, I think, 10 years now. Rock Rock Candy Mountain came out in 2017, and that was my first Image series. And Sex Castle was technically a reprint, but that was before 2016, I think, maybe 2015. I've been doing it for 10 years, and until you do a big two run, no one cares. So it's like, is this my big two run? I don't know. I would like to do my big two run because I made a lot of good books. I wish people were paying more attention to, I can say, like, Peacemaker, they reprinted Rock Candy Mountain because Peacemaker, people were buying that book. And I think the reason why they were buying that book is because retailers had it on their shelves. I think that's why it was selling. You know what I mean? So there's always the hope, which is what we want, is that it's just like all the guys we just listed, Scotty Young, the people, I think people who are like, who love comics, love the creators, whether it's the artist or the writer. And so you go, oh, I like, I love GI Joe. I'm going to check out this Iron Man. I'm going to Joshua. So many books, like, good luck keeping up with that guy. But, yeah, you are like, do a Powerbomb. I want to do that Moon book. You know what I mean? Which. So on and so forth. [00:36:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:36:31] Speaker B: So I think the thing is, like, you're constantly, as a creator, either hoping to get a book that people just love because now you're doing Spider man or Batman or X Men or whatever, or you're Matt Kent, Jeff Lemire, your Scott Snyder. Whereas, like. Well, no, people want to see the next thing you do. Yeah, I'm just, frankly, frankly, I'm not there yet. So I need that run to be like, oh, because the. Matt, the. The bulk of consumers are buying Batman. You know what I mean? The bulk of consumers, if you look at the sales numbers of Batman versus everything else, it's. It's literally night and day, right? So they're. The consumers are buying big two stuff, like in the direct market, which That's a whole other conversation is like, what's the direct market in 2026? How valuable is the direct market in 2026? I don't know. You can only get into life one place, though, so it's pretty important to me. But for, like, you're not anything until you do that run. You're just simply not. You know, If Tinian hadn't done however long he did on Batman, no one would care. And that'd be unfortunate, because I think he's the best writer in comics. He's the Stephen King of comics. And it's like, whether or not you think that's the best or not, he's not, I guess. [00:37:36] Speaker A: I mean, I'm from Maine, so there's a bias there. [00:37:38] Speaker B: So it's not like. It's not like high art, but it's like, in terms of. It's always good. Anyone can enjoy it. Like, that's the thing. It's like, everyone will enjoy it, and it's good and it's clever and it feels personal. I think he's the best. Right. But if he didn't. You can't say. There's no way of knowing the number of people in comics who have had massive success without a run. [00:37:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:59] Speaker B: Is like four people. It's like Kirkman, who had a run, but no one remembers it. No one cares. Kirkman, Jeff Smith, and Raina Telgemeier. You know what I mean? Like, I don't even know. It's just a really short list of them. [00:38:09] Speaker A: My favorite Williamson book is Nail Biter, but yet again, I don't think that people would have come out with. [00:38:15] Speaker B: But, yeah, I think if you look at most. And this is a different thing, which, of course, I let's. Lemire had Ethics county, right. That was his first one. People loved it. And then he did Sweet Tooth, which is right in there. But Sweet Tooth was his breakout, and Sweet Tooth led into him doing DC stuff with the new 52. You have, like, Nail Biter. You have, like, Jim Zub's first book. I think most people are, like, still like Skull Kickers, I think, is what it's called. That's my favorite gym. That's my favorite gym. Well, now he's been doing Conan for four years. [00:38:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:43] Speaker B: And is doing great. You know, I mean, it also, he. But he also wrote for Forever every Marvel and DC book. Josh Williams did. You know what I mean? Like, they goes. Did everything. So not like it's your best, but there's something about that run that people go, oh, you're, you're legitimate, you're for real. We like all your stuff because you haven't really the bed yet. And I haven't had that. I simply haven't had that. And that's saying I have 10 years of books, you know, but I know the sales numbers. I know what the sales numbers are and I know how well they do or don't do. And we're always just trying to find readers. And I say this all the time. I probably said it last time I was here. People, oh, he wants money. And it's like, well, the money would be nice, but like, we are making these things to be consumed and enjoyed. I'm not telling. I'm not making for some people, I think, in this industry, and again, I say this humbly, is that I think for a lot of people in this industry, they're making comics is their job. I'm telling stories like. And that's not me being pretentious. It's me saying, I'm not doing it for a paycheck or because it's what I do. I want to entertain people. I want to make them feel things. I want to make them happy. In 2026 and 2025 and 2024, which are the last five years, were God awful. You know what I mean? Like, trying to make people feel good, even if it's something like devil on my shoulder, which is not happy. I think it's very cathartic. I think it's super cathartic, though. I think that woman getting her revenge and the way it comes about and the characters around her, I think it feels good. It's like, that's what I want. I just want people to have good stories that distract them. And what that's not for. That's not for the void. It's. It's not for a paycheck. It's not for the void. Again, I was talking to Con. I was talking to Condon. It's like, well, I don't think. Because he's like, what were your pre order numbers? And I was like, oh, they were this. Which no royalties. Not enough to make royalties. Because there's a threshold. Not because it didn't do well, it did pretty well. And I was like, but I'm not. I'm like, I'm not looking at delivery pizzas yet. You know what I mean? Like, not yet. But even when, if that is the case, if a year from now, for whatever reason or two, name it, I'll still be doing this, I don't know how it's coming out because like this is, this is what I like. And so we went more readers. So everything's like, if I get. You'd rather have 200,000 people see a thing than 50,000. And even if a hundred thousand of them didn't like it, it's like, well, that's a learning experience because I don't think they will. I don't think this is the one. I don't think any of these three are the ones where anyone would read it unless again, they had no joy in their heart. And I can't help you if you live a life without whimsy. I can't give you that. I don't think any of my three books that are out, especially with two issues of Devil on My Shoulder out because the first issue is setting up a whole thing and it's dark. I don't think anyone could read these three books that any join their heart and be like, no, I didn't care. I didn't like it. Like, you didn't have fun. You didn't have $4 worth of fun. Because I think you did. And I think that's the least I did. You know what I mean? [00:41:18] Speaker A: That's always my thing about the price of comics too. It's like, yes, they are going up and yes, they have gone up over the years, so on and so forth, but like as much fun as I enjoyment as I get out of the $4, $5, whatever it is, it's like, it's definitely more than the enjoyment I get at a cup of coffee I buy in the morning or something like that. Like to me it's like, that's close for me, but I would rather make my own coffee and spend less on it or you know, and so like, and save the money to buy the comics because I just have so much enjoyment in reading it. When you have a good one or one that strikes you just so well, it could not even be that good of a comic, Kyle. It could just hit you so well. Like there are people who make some, some, some bad comics that actually are people like reading, which is fine. And I'm not going to obviously name anybody or anything. And there's some excellent, well written comics that just don't strike with you. And that's the thing. It's. Everybody's an individual person. And so I do think that these three books is like, out of these three books, someone has to find something out of these, Kyle. One of them, like, let's be honest. And there's this crossover between Them, not physically, not like this big universe you're creating. But there's a crossover in style of your writing style and the artists that you partner up with that if you're going to like, in my opinion, it doesn't matter if it's Rock McCanny Mountain or if it's, you know, Russell Heist or, you know, Nose Not Afraid, whatever. If you like one of those, there's a possibility you're going to like something else by Kyle Starks. And that's just because a, you're easily read. I don't think you're, you don't have, you don't use these gigantic words and things like that. So like you have this ability to be smoothly read, which is easy. And again, there's some comedy thrown in here and there and there's spaces for everything. And I just think that that's, I think that wrestle heist is one of those things. People see the word wrestle in it and they're like, I don't like wrestling. It's like, well, that's not just what it's about. You know, like, just read it. [00:43:00] Speaker B: It's. [00:43:01] Speaker A: It's the same thing I've always said about like things like the Walking Dead. I'm like, oh, I don't like zombies. Well, it's not really about the zombies. It's about the people that are in there and so on and so forth. And so, you know, I don't like a black and white movie because it's black and white. Whatever. It's just this, give it a try. And I think that's one of those big things. And to me, Peacemaker was, was huge. And for people that I know we, we read, it's kind of funny. I realize this now and I told you before we started we're reading Peacemaker tristar for the book club. I'm in for my local comic book shop. But we actually, in November or October, we read those not afraid. So it's actually kind of funny. Your trade paperback novels sales are going to go up there because of our book club. No. And so we, and so we have this. People know what you're like in your horror side of things and then they're going to get into, I mean, the first two pages a peacemaker, TriStar. If you even remotely like the TV show, you're gonna like the book. Like the comic, like it's not even close. Like the comedy is there and, and the style who Peacemaker is, is there. And so like you mentioned, why is it not out in October when the show because it fits the show so well. Like, it's so well, maybe it's out now. If you watched it and you didn't watch it, you know, it's like, oh, cool, it's. It's still out now, not in the summer. [00:44:14] Speaker B: So is that what it is? You just think for that regard is that people will see something. And then the boys Invincible were very good for the comic industry because people go, I'd like something else like this. Well, if they came in for Invincible, you go, did you see the Boys? Or you know what I mean? Like minor threats. That's the thing. I never understood why Dark Horse wasn't pushing Minor Threats as being very boys and incredible. That sort of meta, like deconstructing hero thing, that's very fun and easy for anyone to get into. Neither here nor there. It's like they never time things right. But, you know, people saw that series and they're like, oh, it's the last one. Like, oh, I want to. I want more Peacemaker. They go into the store. I think that. I think the hardcover is sold out. I don't know. [00:44:52] Speaker A: So, I mean, I got it when it first came out, so I don't know. [00:44:55] Speaker B: So you know what I mean? Like, people walk in like, what do you have Peacemaker? And they're going to give them something that isn't what they want. And it's like, why. Why aren't we trying to sell comics? I don't know. That's a whole other podcast. [00:45:07] Speaker A: I've always had this discussion. I've always. It should be like this thing. Like, honestly, I also am heavily into the book side of things, like prose novels and novels. And there's like a thing called a. Like a movie version of it. Like if it's get us adapted. They do. They put the movie poster as the COVID to try to sell more books. And I'm like, I never understood that as a variant cover, as a possibility you could put out like the Peacemaker tries hard book as a. As a. The one that you guys chose or they chose to be the comic one. [00:45:32] Speaker B: And. [00:45:32] Speaker A: And then there's a variant of it which is the. Yeah, and, and. And just. I said, I. I don't. I don't usually tend to buy them because I'm. I'm more of a pure. I want the artwork. However, I do think it would sell even if it wasn't like a. It was like a slip jacket or some sort of like. Like a. In shrink wrap that had like a poster in it. That's not Actually on the book. But I had some sort of way to like say, hey, by the way guys, if you like this thing, this thing you're going to like. And I think that's, you know, I, I don't know. I just. It to me is always that marketing side of things that I'm like, maybe they don't need our help. I don't know. Maybe that's. [00:46:02] Speaker B: They, they do. [00:46:03] Speaker A: They, they figured it out on their own. No, I think there's some, some politics as in like physical politics, but like internal politics of companies that also. That are involved in this that I don't know. So it's a. I don't know. I just feel like you would buy it. [00:46:16] Speaker B: Well, yeah, there's a lot. I will say that publishers are very slow to make changes and we're in 30 years of no changes. And I said, I will say in that regard because I'm, I'm flying the flag or whatever. But I think what DC has done over the last two years is the only publisher who's really looking at the sort of state of the way comics exist and are trying something new, different. And I know for the compact editions and for Vertigo, those were responses to asking retailers what they thought was wrong. And I think that's a whole other discussion. And I think the two questions were asked, and this is some speculation and some things that I know is that for the compact editions, they're like, why do you think manga is selling so well? And the retailers who aren't don't know anything about manga are like, because they're small and they're cheap. Well, that's not why, that's not why they were selling well. And that's also not why the compact editions sell well. Though most people will say that if you bring them up, it's like, oh, they're small and they're cheap. No, they're one story. It's a collected story. It's the beginning, middle and end. And if you vaguely like Batman, you can now read a Batman and not have to know 70 years of lore. Like that's why they're doing so well. Them being $10 is obviously like gonna only help. If they were hard covered, they wouldn't sell as well because they sell hard cover for what, $30 or $25. Who has that? Jesus. [00:47:35] Speaker A: And pissed off about a peacemaker. Tri S was only available in hardcover. I was like, God damn it, what the hell? [00:47:45] Speaker B: Black, you know, Black label wants to be different. And yeah, I'm here for it, but I also feel Like, I feel like everything's too expensive for what comics should be and what they. Well, 2026, they might be becoming fair price now because everything's so expensive in 2026. But I think comics are meant to be cheap. I think they're supposed to be. I. I think you should be able to go to comic shop and buy 10 comics. [00:48:05] Speaker A: Yes. [00:48:05] Speaker B: And every week you should be able to buy 10 comics. Because then I just think that's how it should be. I think you'd also get more people coming in to buy three comics, which would be great even if they were, you know, I mean, three comics for $6 or whatever. Comic at five, anyway, that's a different discussion. But Vertigo was the same. And which is because you mentioned the creative teams. Is that Vertigo was. They asked the retailers, what's wrong? And they said, we don't have long runs with the same creative teams anymore. Which is an interesting argument when I can't sell a fifth issue of an Image series and make any money, that you think the 25th one will sell better because it's the same team. But that's what Vertigo is. And if you look at all the teams, every single team involved, they're chosen because they put out something good together. [00:48:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:48:43] Speaker B: Dennis and stipend to 20th century man. We did Peacemaker. Condon and Phillips have done, I think, like, three things together. They're the best again, they're the best combo, all of them. Size barrier. And Aaron Campbell, like, that's a hellblazer team. Like, it's all these really good teams. Well, that was intentional. That was a choice by dc, who's looking at things and going, we need to tweak. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, because no one's going to do full changes. Like, no one's. Like, I feel like if I was. I'm gonna. If I was the fifth biggest publisher in comics called Happy Town Comics, completely fictitious, Happy Town Comics, I would go, we need to figure out how to do our own webtoons. Yes. And Marvel and DC have those things. That's not at all what I'm talking about. Yes, that's not at all what I'm talking about. And I think there's really interesting, smart things that someone could do. But I think the biggest hindrance for comics is the buy in price right now. And the lore. Like, there's so much. It's so expensive, there's no way to even catch up cheaply if you wanted to. There's no roadmaps for anything. I just feel like Someone be like, we should do this and what will there ways to do it where we can. We will then publish physical versions and make money. You know, I mean, like there's ways to do it. I think there's ways to do it and figure out like how can we get it cheaper to people, how can we diversify from retailers? Or how do we diversify from retailers. But at the same time, I think there's a counter argument to that if retailers are the most important thing, which they are. Yeah. And right now there was every series if like Green Arrow with Condon. Everyone agrees it was a incredible run. It got canceled because no one bought it. [00:50:20] Speaker A: Yes. [00:50:21] Speaker B: You know what I mean? Okay, so we're gonna say retailers are the most important place like this. The fate of a well written Condon Green Arrow run decides on how well single issues. Then we should make retailers more important to the publisher. The publisher should know what every store wants. They should have a contact with. There's only 2500 stores. Only like, dude, that's not very many. [00:50:39] Speaker A: No, it's not. I mean I work in the beer industry. My day job is doing art for beer cans. But like we have the same situation with like there's a distributor and then there's the retailer and then there's a customer. We sell the distributor and we see the distributor a certain way. But like it's the next. The most important thing and the time we spend the most money on. On marketing and things like that is like the bars, restaurants and. And bottle shots, because those are the places that are going to be like, hey, you should try this new beer or you should try this new thing because they're the ones that are going to want to try these new things. And so, and honestly, seeing it on the forefront, I have been in the shop with my buddy Paul who owns Galactic Comics and Collectibles in Bangor, Maine. He has actually gotten emails from like Tony Fleece being like, hey, there's a new series coming out called Feral. You should really check it out. And sending him like digital copies to try to get the. It means like when I get those emails from something like that. And I'm just thinking about this one time, obviously I said a lot of people do that is. Is that he immediately. Even without reading the book, it's already on his radar. Like he should be promoting this book more because someone actually took the time out to reach out and say, do you need something? And Matthew Rosenberg did that with. With a bunch of his stuff that recently. [00:51:42] Speaker B: Those are two guys who are very Good about it. They're also two guys who can afford all that. And I would say. I would say that's not my job. That's not Tony's job, and that's not Matt's job. No, it's not. [00:51:55] Speaker A: So someone should be. So like I said, whether it's distributor or whether it's the. The. The publisher itself getting out to these people and saying, hey, by the way, there's this. And you can't do with every book because you do with every book. Then there's the. There's a delusion. [00:52:06] Speaker B: You shouldn't do it with everybody. [00:52:09] Speaker A: And they said to me, nowadays there is this. And I do see that when I'm in the comic book shop, which is kind of a fun thing, sometimes I just sit there like a fly on the wall, let people come in and go, oh, you're buying Pokemon cards. You go over there. I'll talk to these people over here. But a lot of it is the people who are like, oh, that's by so and so, or that's the illustrator. This one or that person did this one. And I'm like, I like that. I see that a lot. And so they. Seeing this with Vertigo and seeing these teams doing these things. Plus, when we think about the book club side of things, when we try to pick new books to read, we're like, oh, we want to do a couple independents, we want to do some horror. We want to do a big two. A big two. A DC Marvel kind of thing. But it's so freaking hard to pick the big two books. A, availability. B, not having someone who's like, I only read dc. So when you jump into a Marvel book, some of these characters I'm not going to know. So we pick a book like Peacemaker. We're like, hey, even if you do read a lot of DC comics, you still might not know some of these characters. [00:53:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:53:01] Speaker A: So, like, there's that to it. But, like, it's like, it's a. It's a compact story that you can get. You don't really need to know all the characters. You just need to know them in that book. And so that's as hard. Also about the big two is that. So with Vertigo, that and some of these other independents, like, okay, Devil on My Shoulder, starts and ends, and that's the story. You don't need to know anybody else. And any of these people who have connected universes in that sense, they still have this. You can read most criminal books, you know, by themselves and not have to worry about you know, stuff for it. And so, and I've gotten that because I didn't read all of Criminal, but I've gotten some advanced copies of recent Criminal ones and I'm like, oh, it's pretty cool. It's made me want to read the rest. But like, it's, it's cool in that sense. So Vertical is cool like that. Seeing some of these awesome creators. And I will lump you into that. Kyle, you are an awesome creator. Even though as much as you want to, you know, slap yourself in the face about it is that it is cool to see all these people and continue, like have a 12 issue series. I'm so looking forward to that because of the fact that four issues of Spawn. It's great and all that stuff, but it's like, I don't know, I just feel like it's not very much. No, it's not very much. And it's like it a is great because it's not very much. So you buy four or five dollar issues and it's 20 bucks, you know, like, but also I kind of want that, like, I mean, is this going to continue? Is this a year's worth of comics or is there going to be a break at all? Or is this just like as of right now, February through next January, there's going to be 12 issues of. [00:54:19] Speaker B: There's going to be 12 issues. And it presumably keeps going. I know for me and Dennis, our books are both ongoings and I don't know how many issues he was guaranteed. Yeah, I was given here. I guarantee 12. I'm working on 10 this week. Maybe 10 and 11. We'll see depending on. I got some other stuff. There's so much little minor things, especially with the Where Monsters Lie Kickstarter coming very close to being dude and podcasts. [00:54:43] Speaker A: Like myself interrupting you and stuff like that. Yeah, well, we have. [00:54:46] Speaker B: We love to do the podcast. We love to promote, we love to talk to retailers. We love to do all that stuff because that's great. [00:54:51] Speaker A: It's great. [00:54:51] Speaker B: And again, it's funny that you mentioned those two guys because those two guys and Rosenberg are absolutely the best at it and they have figured out how to do it. I'm trying very hard to figure it out because I would like to be in it. I've sent out emails. No one responds. Like just. No one responds. Everyone sends out emails. They get so many of them. Yeah, I mean, they just get so many of them. How do you look? How do you make time for something and. And the publishers will argue about when you should send stuff. And I think they're wrong because they want to send it last minute. I don't. Anyway, it's a whole conversation. [00:55:19] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I never understood that either on this side of things, Kyle, like, I'll get an email. I'll get an email on Friday, like late night, like Friday, like 10 o' clock at night. I'll get an email from a PR person from one of the. One of the publishers being like, these are the books coming out on Wednesday. Can you guys have your reviews up by. By Wednesday? And it's like, cool, man. Like, to me, I'm always like, I would much rather. And it's different for every book, but I would much rather read End of Life for an example. And this is not picking apart Vertigo or DC at all. This is just a book you have coming out right before foc. Than it would be to actually do it now because of the fact that I want people to order it. However, I understand 100 spoilers. Other spoiler free reviews should be there. Spoiler review is end of story. Should always be after. [00:55:59] Speaker B: But like, I, I want to. I want to circle back to the ongoing that I'm going. But a major publisher. I was like, hey, I'd like to send out review copies for Russell Heist two months before frc. And they're like, we don't like to do that because retailers are so busy. We like to send it like the week or two before foc. Well, let me propose this to you. Let's say you had a wrestling comic. If I send it out, which I do. If you send it out two months in advance, even if they don't read it, that they see, oh, Kyle Starks as a wrestling comic. And maybe they know who I am more likely than. I mean, I am in a. Again, I'm in Double A's, right? I am. I'm on the list to maybe be a major one day. They probably recognize my name either. Rick and Morty and Peacemaker. [00:56:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:56:37] Speaker B: But you go, oh, a wrestling comic. And then you have eight Wednesdays. Because that's gonna be the day when most people come in where you go, oh, Dave, you like, you got do a powerbomb. You, like, do a powerbomb. There's a new one. Do you want to add? You have eight weeks to do that. What they say is, well, they're so busy, so they send it out the week before the Friday before Monday. I tell you, all my Dark Horse books, they're trying to send them out probably the Friday before foc. It's like, you know what? You're not trying to sell to anyone. You're trying to remind that person just to order them. That's a mistake. It's a huge mistake. Just in terms of how to do business. I want. If I have a good horror comic, they send out number one. I don't send out number one. I send out everything I have. If I have three issues, you did to me. Yeah, yeah. Because you want people to go, oh, I have faith in this series. Also, my stuff, you read fast. So it's like, I don't know. That should be something I should probably say. It's like, hey, you can probably read all these in 30 minutes together. There's a ton of back matter that you could dig into. Like, we're doing these things to make additive value. But the thing is, they're fast. It's like you go, oh, those are three things. I can trust the series. I can. I can comfortably promote the series of people I know who like wrestling. Are you just, like, having fun? Eight weeks. But they're like, dude, who are you selling to? [00:57:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:57:46] Speaker B: And even if they don't do it, you should have the option. And I was like, we should do it the way you should do it. This is. I'm tangenting so hard. You should do it two months, six weeks and the second week. And first we can just remind it. It's like, I didn't do that because I got busy and I just think about it and Because I was disenfranchised pretty badly and I'm not. I didn't go to school for marketing. I don't know anything about promotion or marketing. I didn't do any of that. I. I tell stupid stories that try to distract people from the horrors of existence. That's what I do. Okay. So it's like, I don't think about promotion, but I think that's the way to do it because it makes more sense. Also expecting someone to. How many books are coming out on Monday? FOC, let's say it's 30. They're going to read 30 emails on the weekend. Bullshit. They worked all week. They worked all week. They're not going to just sit and read. A lot of them do. The good stores do. But asking, like, give them months to figure that out. You know, that's what I think anyway. That's not here or there. But in regards to. It's like, I know. Yeah. Is. I know Dennis and I have ongoings. I don't know how many he guaranteed at one point, the discussion was eight. I have 12. The, the Ezra Cain mystery, which is Peril the Brutal Dark by Condon and Jacob Phillips is basically a chapter book. So they are guaranteed six issues, which is the length of the story that they're telling, which is the Brutal the Peril Dark and then based on sales, which I think will be good for that bit for sure because it's so good and if not, you guys all messed up. It's really good. The first issue is really good. They will do a second one which will be called Blank Blank Blank and Ezra Kane Mystery. So they're doing a series of Azure K mysteries which is ongoing but it will be in chapters. So it'll be. You'll get six issues a year or whatever. Right. Instead of. In theory, End of Life is going to keep going. If it does well, if numbers justify it, which is that they can pay, they can afford to pay the creative team. We will keep going. Bleeding Hearts will keep going as long as. As long as people buy it, as long as we want to do it and me and Steve want to do it for a long time. And I think technically, even if Steve didn't want to do it, he'd still, he still is a co owner and royalty's worried. But yeah, could a different artist come on? I think so, but it'd be up to him. Could we do fill in issues with guest? Right, sure, of course we could. And that's like, that's cool too. Like that's cool too. To think yeah, potentially what could happen down the line is just doing. I like if it does, like there's a character I introduced who's really stupid in like issue six or seven. And like if it's ongoing, I can do a five issue arc on that character. You know what I mean? Like to have those options are to be like, who knows if it's so popular, we could do a spin off where I'm like, Josh Williamson is writing the stupid end of life character or whatever that's super thrilling. Is it likely? Probably not. But I like the idea of it and I do feel like I like the thing that gives me hope. One is that I think these books are good, which I've said repeatedly, but I think they're good too. That people are what absolute shows to a scale, which is a curious absolute, like its own paradox in comics right now, but it's bringing in new readers. People are walking in the comic shop. You know why? Because you can start here. It's a starting point and now we're giving them another Thing, this is a starting point and it's by dc, so you can trust it. It's by Marvel. You know what I mean? It's by a big two. It's not. I'm trying to think of what new just came out from Image that was probably great. But who? How do you know? You don't know. It's a wild card. It could be good, it could be bad. [01:01:11] Speaker A: Everything dead and dying from everything. [01:01:14] Speaker B: Which, by the way, that's Jacob Phillips. Yeah. And it's. [01:01:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:01:19] Speaker B: Like he's so good. But. Yeah, you don't know what you're going to get. You don't know what it is. But this is D.C. and D.C. saying we have a new line and doing it after the success of their last new line. That's very hopeful too, is that a lot of people will try it just because it's a starting point. And we'll do, you know, three first printings and I'll make some money. Finally my kids can keep wearing shoes. [01:01:42] Speaker A: Exactly. I mean, to me, it's one thing about ongoings, and I think you're right, is a number of times we've had discussions about miniseries, even like 10 issue, 12 issue maxi series is that you don't have. Oh, it feels like something's missing. And I feel like that's what you get out of something that's an ongoing. If you do get guaranteed into the 12 issues, the next five issues, four issues could be a story arc about a certain character, which you get. We got that in different series that are 60, 70, 80 issues long, 193 issues for the Walking Dead. There was a number of times where we just had tangents on different characters because you have the ability to do that because, you know, obviously that's a different animal. And I guess Spawn's similar like that. Now two with 300 and whatever issues that Todd's done. But like this, this miniseries thing, you have to get the story concisely done. And even that, even when you're kind of like not guaranteed, but you're like, I want to do this long. Like, I hate this place. Which was obviously truncated a little bit too. So it's like even that where it's like you didn't even get the number of issues that you hope for and ended up ending sooner. So there's that. So ongoing, or at least guaranteeing 12 issues means that you can breathe a little bit and have a little bit more story to tell and. And some stories are made for it, some stories aren't obviously end of life Sounds like it's made for it. Whereas other stories are probably more succinct to be four issues, five issues. And that's all you really want in a story. But I think there's a mixture. I think there's a myth. People are going towards trades a lot nowadays. But I also think there's a lot of missing of that longer commitment series where I can like and I think that's nowadays. I think this year for my reading like physical books, I was like so anti like 700 page books because I'm like, I want to read like three 250 page books. Like I want to read three books in that time. And for me I'm like now I just literally read like Back to back 700 page books by Daniel Krause. And like, to me I'm like so in love with the fact that I've been like in this story for two weeks. Whereas like in other times where I've been like read a book by someone who's like 150 pages. I'm like, cool, that was great. That was a weekend. I'm done. I want this like, like longer thing. And again it probably will be. I mean I'll read issues 1 through 3 of end of Life and there might be a little gap where I go back and read 4, 5 and 6 and together and stuff like that. But like, I don't know, just. Just more being, living and investing time into a series that promises to be, you know, 10, 12 issues is a good thing. I think so that's a benefit also of the Vertigo side of things is, is that too. But again all the creators, the types of stories are being told and all that stuff is amazing at Vertigo. But also if anybody's a fan of, I mean Wrestle Heist is phenomenal. It's fun. It's just light hearted in that sense. It's just you. You know. Again, the artwork is, is, is Kyle Stark's artwork. Like if you look at any of this, like anything you've drawn is. It looks like, like I said, if you want to be brutal and unsettling with horror, you get that Devil on My Shoulder is phenomenal. But also go back and read things like those Not Afraid and Where Monsters Lie and you want to. Again, I just reread it for. Because of Book Club. I reread Peacemaker Tries Hard and I've loved it again, it was so much fun to read and it's just. [01:04:29] Speaker B: I'm so proud of it. [01:04:30] Speaker A: Yeah, it's just so good. And obviously Steve's Artwork is phenomenal, too. And if you're a variant cover person, the variant covers were phenomenal as well on that series. You can go back and look at all those things. It's just, it's just a lot of fun. So I think that. Kyle Starks, I think you're here. I think, I think we're great in this. This is the year when someone offers you. Here's, you know, when, When Scotty's done with Lobo, they're like, here. What? Lobo? No. [01:04:54] Speaker B: They'Ll just go, well, I guess it doesn't work. [01:04:57] Speaker A: Would you rate. This is not. Would you rate Deadpool? Do you think you could. Do you think. Do you think your, your, your style, like what you did for Trees Maker could work over at Deadpool in that sense of, like. [01:05:09] Speaker B: I, I think that I, I, I'm so against pretension. I think that I've shown in my career that if there's a notable comedy character in these universes, that I can do it. Okay. [01:05:21] Speaker A: I just, I was. Obviously, there's more than that, but I just thought to myself, I just watched it's, you know what? This, like, next week is the 10th anniversary of the movie Deadpool Movie. [01:05:29] Speaker B: That's kind of crazy, right? [01:05:30] Speaker A: Isn't that insane? Like, to think about how long ago was. And I just rewatched it, and I just was like, oh, my God, this is like. This is so funny. And I love the fact that it was, like, part of the universe, but also making fun of itself and making fun of the universe. It was just. It was great in that sense, but 10 years of that, and I said to me, that's why it's on the top of my head. Deadpool. And I think that comedy part of it would work. [01:05:48] Speaker B: I feel like, again, it's a tough one because I feel like my career, it seems like I would have been offered that at least once. You know what I mean? [01:05:55] Speaker A: Yes. [01:05:56] Speaker B: And it hasn't. So I go, I go, well, maybe there's a reason for that. Yeah, my. I given. So look, I did Lobo, I did Wild Dog, which is kind of my take on Wild Dog. Yeah. Peacemaker. These are sort of your big, dumb, violent idiots in the DC Universe. I've shown. I do. That's big, dumb, violent idiot. And end of life is very much the same way are my favorite types of characters. Because I think that's in many ways what we are as humans. I think we're big, dumb, violent animals, for better or for worse. And all my guys are trying to do it for better even when they don't want to. [01:06:27] Speaker A: Yes. [01:06:27] Speaker B: Or mean to you. [01:06:28] Speaker A: Mean to. Yeah. Yeah. [01:06:30] Speaker B: And so I feel like if, if it is very well, gosh, no brainer. Why don't you give a Booster Gold or why don't you give Blue Beetle. Yeah. Even Guy Gardener. [01:06:37] Speaker A: Oh yeah. [01:06:37] Speaker B: But you know what I hope they offer me not green, not space opera, some bit. You know what I mean? Like I hope they offer me Red Hood or whatever, but they. Because I feel like I'm a good writer. And the thing is is that being a air quotes comedy writer also hurts me. It hurts me with the consumer because they're like, well, we don't. [01:06:57] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I can talk about that. That's something we definitely have talked about before because it's just one of those hard things where people are like, oh, it's comedy. It's comedy. So subjective. And. And there's also that in there. But like, I don't know, I think if you. You can tell a story that's still not comedy, but throw a little bit of. [01:07:11] Speaker B: You know what the thing is, and I'm sure I said it here. What I'm sure I've said it here before, is that comic book readers as a group love to laugh and love to be given humorous things. They do not want to be told that they're giving a humorous thing. So that's why I think I hate this place so well. Yeah. Is one. Because it's a very good. Is very, you know, Cabin on the Lake sort of meta's poor thing they relate to but also compared to everything else on the shelf. And I see and I do this objectively. It's. It's the funniest thing that came that they read in probably a long time. Unless they're reading, you know, Ryan Brown and Charles Soule or unless they're reading. It's just a chip, you know what I mean? And that's like specific chips, like not modern chip. That's like a public domain chip. Like a very small list of people who are putting out good comedy and I feel like I'm one of them. And I'm not trying to do comedies. I just like things for to be funny. I just like humor and I like charming things. I'm not trying to go, gosh, I hope I get them belly laughing. I just hope we have a fun time. I just hope we have a fun time. So it's an interesting thing where you go, you know what? I. They should give me Booster Gold. They should give me. [01:08:16] Speaker A: I didn't Think about that. That one's one I would. Would definitely see. You could see you right. [01:08:20] Speaker B: You know, I mean like I could write a 10. I could write a great 10 issue booster goal. Any of those sort of minor characters. Anyone who that would let me play around with a little bit, I would do really good. But it's like, you know what I also hope, like, what was the first thing like Kelly Thompson's Hawkeye. You know what I mean? Yeah, like, give me whatever. Like give me whatever. Space opera is tough, man. That's the one thing I feel like space opera is. It's just tough for me because I'm so character driven. Like you can still do that in those, those settings, but ideal. I'm not a. My stakes aren't world. You know what I mean? [01:08:52] Speaker A: Like. Yeah, what about this? [01:08:54] Speaker B: So personal. [01:08:55] Speaker A: Tonight, tonight. Later on tonight, 8:30 Eastern Time here I'm actually chatting with Mark Guggenheim for an episode that's actually coming out right before this episode, which is for Star wars podcast day. And we're talking about his new comic book, Jar Jar. So what I want you to. Why don't you write Jar Jar? [01:09:14] Speaker B: I'm not really a Star wars guy, per se. [01:09:17] Speaker A: No, I just think that, that, that, yeah, it has that comment. But also there you. I just talked to someone recently. Yes, I do. Yes. [01:09:26] Speaker B: I hope I open of life. The result is not. Well, what can we, what can we do? Because I, I will say I've been saying this. I've been having the sort of, the, the pleasure of saying, I think my two biggest. Really. I figured it out at 48 and doing this for 10 years. They go like, what are your, what are my two biggest influences? I think it's Preacher and I think it's Justice League by giving it to Matthias. I think those are the two biggest influence in some Evan Dorkin stuff. Like Evan Dorkin did a bunch of hectic planets is unbelievable that no one knows. But it's fine. It's great. Anyway, those two things I look at how I tell stories and like those are the two guys, like looking at those early dli, they're, they're hilarious. But they're not a comedy series. It's a superhero book that has real people in it and that's what makes it so good. And it's like, well, Preacher does this thing where it's like, it feels like everything's. Everything matters and everything ties back around, but like a bunch of cool stuff is happening. That's what I like. And I think you can do that with Anything. It doesn't have to be funny. I think you can still have charming real people. [01:10:25] Speaker A: Yes. [01:10:26] Speaker B: You just have to spice it. So, like, my hope is, look, I would love to do blue and gold. I'd love to do Name. Name your humor character. [01:10:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:10:33] Speaker B: It's like, I hope they offer me Zatanna. I don't know. You know what I mean? Like, okay. Because it's like. Let me. Let me show you that. Like, very playful. Yeah. Absolute. Absolute nort is what they're gonna offer me. [01:10:48] Speaker A: Hey, that doesn't mean absolute. Right on. It's gonna sell. So I don't like what to tell you right now, man. Like, it's insane how much the Absolute series have sold in 2025. It's insane. [01:10:58] Speaker B: It's a. It's a paradox. It's literally paradox. But they're getting new people in. And if you look at. It's just like those compacts. If you look at it from a wide view, it makes perfect sense because. And again, I think you want to wrap this up, but I keep talking because I can't help myself. But if you look at the. If you look at the world of comics and you go, everyone who read Raina, Tellgemire and Dogman when they were coming out, and they were at the age where you're now too old for all these YA books about witches, you know what I mean? Like. Like hot dog witches or whatever, and they're all the same book, which I'm sure was disenfranchising. Every book was suddenly the same book. [01:11:35] Speaker A: Right? [01:11:35] Speaker B: They go, we want to read more comics because we've been raised on comics. We like comics. This name the Marvel movie that came out, but there's no follow up on that, and we'll never catch up with it. They went to manga, and they went to manga because there's a beginning, a middle, and end. There's a place to start. And, like, you know what's going on. And if you. You see the cartoon, you love these characters. That's what the absolute line is. The absolute line is all those people who are. Who didn't get ever into Batman because they couldn't can now get into Batman. They can get into the. They can read all these iconic characters. Like, that's why it's doing so well. And people are just those. Those young people are just walking into shops and buying stuff. You know what I mean? Like, there's a whole slew of people just walking in. Which hasn't happened. [01:12:12] Speaker A: No. [01:12:13] Speaker B: In. I mean, maybe 30 years. Maybe the 90s was really the last time people were just wandering in the shop to go, I wonder what's out this week? [01:12:19] Speaker A: Y. And it's done that. Yeah, and it's done that. And for a while there for dc, especially with my local comic book shop where he has it on the shelves, it was like part of a shelf was the DC comics this week. It was like five comics and there were like three of them had the word Batman in it and it was just this crazy. And the rest of it was like a couple of shelves of Marvel and then a bunch of shelves of independent. And it was obviously based on his buyers, like the customers that come in there, obviously. But like in the same sense of always, like, wow, there's only five DC comics this year. And now it's because there's absolute and there's always something. It just seems like it's grown a little bit now they're adding Vertigo in. [01:12:51] Speaker B: Which is pretty cool. [01:12:51] Speaker A: Dc, it's. [01:12:52] Speaker B: Ezko is doing great because. [01:12:53] Speaker A: Yeah, it's excellent. Well, I'm a huge Michael del Mundo fan too, so I'm buying all the variants right by Michael, so there's that too. [01:12:58] Speaker B: Yeah, I just think it's. It's such a fun thing. Anyone jump in? I think those all in books, they're going to. I think they're going to do really well too. And it's the same thing. It's like put good creative teams together and find a way to let people, to make them accessible. Comics should be accessible. And I think that's what DC is showing right now more than anything else. I think that's the biggest takeaway, that if you make them accessible, people will try them. And word of mouth is starting to happen again. It's just too bad social media is dead at a time where people are actually starting to talk about comics to each other again. [01:13:28] Speaker A: We'll talk about it in person at the store. When you go there and be like, like when you're in a. Here's a, here's a, here's a, here's a thing for people to try is when you're in a comic book store and you're going to buy her comics, tell us the person next to you what you're recommending. They read this week that if they look at the shelf and something they didn't pull and go, you know what? You should try that X, Y and Z book do that, you know, and so do that kind of stuff. It's also like just that, that, that reaching out and telling people what you Want and what you like, tell go on the Internet and stop bitching about whatever else is going out there and be like, have. Have you read everything Dead and Dying? Like that. That's something that I did recently too, with that because it was phenomenal. But, like, I'm. Yeah, I won't get a tangent about. About that book right now, but I got. I gotta check it out. [01:14:07] Speaker B: I love Jacob, so I gotta check it out. [01:14:09] Speaker A: Tate's a phenomenal writer too. And. And. And that. That it's like a slice. If you like a big Walking Dead fan in the sense that it's a zombie apocalypse, it's like a slice in the life of that. But also like this, the Last of us part of it. There's just. The artwork's great, but it's like. It's like a. It's like a zoomed way in on the. On the zombie apocalypse. Like, you're talking, like under a microscope, like right there. Instead of a big world idea what's going on in the world. It's like, what's going on? This one town and this one spots. Really good. And Final Boss by Tyler Kirkham is phenomenal. So that's another book that you get. [01:14:40] Speaker B: I just read. I just read the synopsis for it and I was like, that sounds cool. [01:14:43] Speaker A: I was like, so. So Margaret Margot, an image emailed me was like, this is some series coming up. And I'm like, oh, you know, whatever. And I'm like, ah, Final Boss. [01:14:51] Speaker B: I don't know. [01:14:51] Speaker A: It's. It's Street Fighter. I don't know, maybe. Whatever. I'll give it a shot. [01:14:55] Speaker B: Holy shit. [01:14:55] Speaker A: It was an amazing. It was like. I read the five issues. Like, they haven't even had the five issues yet, but this is a trade paperback advance. And I read it all coming out in like May or something like that, the trade. But I was like, oh, my God. And I was like, in the comic book store the next day, I'm like, God, you got to. I'm like, that's amazing. And that's. Again, getting it out early could potentially do to someone. But yeah, there's a bunch of good things that are coming up. But like I said to me, it's your stuff is just. I'm always gonna go for it. I'm always gonna. It's always that time where I'm like, I might. You know, I love the video you posted recently on your Instagram about how many dick jokes do you. Do you want in it? That's true too, but in the same sense, like, I said there's heart in it and there's violence in there. [01:15:31] Speaker B: So. [01:15:31] Speaker A: And I do think that you're really good at horror and comedy because both of them, you can go, you can add that to your comic to make it okay. This is not real, guys. This is fake. This is a fake universe. This is not based on real stuff that, that you had this really dark horror stuff that you have to just believe. And then you have this comedy stuff when someone tells a joke about something in a serious moment and you're just like, okay, this is not real. That's. It works well. I think that works well together. And I think that's what's cool about it. And I think you have a wide gambit of abilities to tell those stories. And I think, like I said, I'm always for them. So if you're a Kyle Stark's book, I'm always on top of that, for sure. And then again, like I mentioned it again, and my review hasn't come out yet, but my review for End of Life says that Steve Pugh was part of that too. When I read Pacemaker, I was like, okay, now I want to read anything that. That Steve's done. [01:16:16] Speaker B: Perfect casting. [01:16:16] Speaker A: And so to me, I'm like, okay, I want to have that. And so that made me a fan of Steve's as well. So I love that and I love that partnership between people. I think Russell Heist is amazing. But you're. No offense, your best work is when it's with someone else. Because you guys. [01:16:28] Speaker B: Yeah, because they draw better than me. [01:16:29] Speaker A: No, yeah, that too. [01:16:31] Speaker B: I will say, I will say I think that's what is my best. All of my stuff would be better if someone else drew it. But I think in terms of, like, I'll put. I'll put. I'll put 11 panels on a page. I would never ask Steve to do it. So I'm able to get more into my stuff because I can work harder. And the great and with image in that regards, like issue five is 26 pages. It's not. It's not 22 pages because I can do as much work as I need to do. You know what I mean? And it's free. That's free. I only have paid colorist. I can write and draw as many pages I want. It's free. So there's. I think there's. Storytelling wise, I think my stuff is stronger just because I get. I'm able to get more stuff into it. Yes. And also a fifth issue, you know, I mean, like the fifth issue I probably won't make a penny off of, but it doesn't. It's free. The labor was free. [01:17:11] Speaker A: Yeah. But, yeah, speaking of you, Vlad Pop up is also a phenomenal colorist. I wanted to throw that out there too, just so you guys know. But, yeah, it's Steve's amazing. And that's the thing. [01:17:21] Speaker B: It's you with amazing. [01:17:22] Speaker A: Peter's amazing. So there's all that we could go on with all your. [01:17:26] Speaker B: I've been. [01:17:27] Speaker A: Patrick's amazing too. And. And so there's that. There's that. That connection between you and. You seem like you work well with these people. And I think that's what's cool about this, is that it's like I'm a big. Like I mentioned, I have tattoos of Scotty. I'm a big Scotty Young art fan. Like, I love his variant covers. The baby covers are amazing. And. But also, I'm a fan of his writing, so it's hard. It's sometimes hard to see. I'm a fan of your art, too. I do think that. I love seeing people take your. [01:17:51] Speaker B: Your, Your, Your. Yeah, they do. They do it better. [01:17:52] Speaker A: They do it better. Yeah. I won't go that far. But. But, yeah. So, like, Peacemaker tries hard. It's coming on trade paperback at that. We have wrestle heist out there right now. A couple issues are already on the shelf. Same with Devil in My Shoulder. Check those out. End of Life hits February 18th at every book. A local. Local comic book shop. So check all that out. And if you haven't told your LCs, tell them you want it and you want all of them. Say you want all the issues that are coming out every week, every month, that whatever comes out, just. Just put it in my poll box. And then, yeah, check out other ones like those Not Afraid. And I hate this place. And Barfly was also Firefly. [01:18:26] Speaker B: So good. [01:18:27] Speaker A: So good. So. But yeah, always a pleasure, Kyle. Always a pleasure. I talk to you for hours, but I gotta go pick my son up. So, like, you know, it's. It's. It's one of those things. But we'll get you back on at some point in the future. But until then, thank you so much, dude. I will talk soon. Okay? [01:18:41] Speaker B: Yeah, thanks for having me, man. I appreciate it. [01:18:43] Speaker A: Thanks, Kyle. [01:18:53] Speaker B: It.