Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to the Capes and Tights podcast right here on Capesandtights.com, i'm your host, Justin Soderbergh. This episode is once again brought to you by our friends over at Galactic Comics and Collectibles. At galactic comics and collectibles.com we welcome Griffin Sheridan to the podcast who is half of the Eiser nominated comic writing duo which also includes Ethan S. Parker. Together they are best known for their work on Kill your Darlings, which is an Eisner nominated comic. Marvel Zombies, red band, blinking, you'll miss it. Godzilla Escape the Dead Zone as well as the recent released first issues of Supergirl Survive and the upcoming the Horror of Godzilla. Over at IDW Publishing this episode we chatted with Griffin about all those things and so much more. But before you listen, follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, bluesky, threads, all those places you can rate, review, subscribe over on Apple, Spotify or wherever you find your podcasts. Don't forget you can watch the video portion of this podcast over on YouTube. And as always, there's so much more. @capesentice.com this episode is Griffin Sheridan chatting comics, writing with all these things and so much more. Enjoy.
Welcome to the podcast, Griffin.
[00:01:15] Speaker B: How are you today, Justin? I'm great, man. We are recording this on the final order cutoff date for the Horror of Godzilla number one, which sort of surprising to us, the IDW blasted out to a million people, including yourself. And so I'm riding high on the Godzilla hype myself. So stoked to be here. Me, just me.
[00:01:40] Speaker A: No, Ethan, that's fine, we'll make do.
We'll superimpose him over here. No, it's great. No, it's kind of funny because we have a very rigid schedule basically with reviewing and you know, research for podcast episodes. Like I have it like Excel documents that are done because I work full time job as well as this. So there's all kinds of things where like things have to fit, you know, kind of in place and every once in a while you have like Greg cast over at IDW is like, hey, by the way, you know, FOC's FOC is Monday and you're getting this on Thursday. Is there any way that you want to read it and potentially, you know, give us your thoughts on it prior to foc? And I'm like, God damn it man. Like this is like you don't give any time at all. And I'm like certain books or certain stories or certain things, I'm like, yeah, I'll Skip it. Sorry. FOC is. I'm not going to make it to foc, but I'll promote the book if it's any good, as we get closer to the book and the release and stuff like that. But, like, the horror Godzilla, I'm like, gosh, I'm talking to you today.
I'm loving this Kaisei stuff. I'm like, I love Greg. Greg from. From IDW is phenomenal. So I gotta get it. And I'm like, I'll give it a shot. Holy crap. Like, I am so glad I got to read that. When I got to read it, it wasn't complete. Like, obviously there's some. Still some final artwork stuff that needs to be done, but, like, damn. Like, I was pumped for this Kaise stuff, and I'm pumped for anything that you and Ethan do, but I was just. I was just super excited for that. So, like, while we're on that, let's just chat that really quickly. What's that been like? I mean, you did. So we'll start. Actually, we'll start where we are, right here. Escape the Dead Zone is where you actually joined the Kaisei era in idw. So it's this new world, this new Godzilla that we get to see. But not only is this new Godzilla story, but, like, you're telling different stories within this new Godzilla story. Like, we haven't really got a story. Kind of like Escape the Dead Zone or. I mean, we did get Starship Godzilla at the same time. So, like, there are these new stories. What's that been like? What's the whole, like, joining the Godzilla world been like for you as a writer?
[00:03:39] Speaker B: I mean, it's been awesome.
I am. I'm a lifelong, like, at the very, like, least, Godzilla appreciator. And then certainly the legacy stuff, the monsterverse, kicked off at a very pivotal point in my life. And since then, that appreciation for all the Kaiju and everything has only grown. And so it kind of felt like the perfect lining up of stars when Jake asked us to be a part of the Kaisei universe, and not just in sitting down. And before the Kaisei universe was really figured out, just kind of pitching ideas at Jake for Godzilla and then realizing, like, oh, we have a lot of, like, gas in the tank for Godzilla ideas. I guess there's something about it that's calling to us.
And ultimately it came down to Jake said, you know, take all of those ideas and let's, like, find a space for them in, like, the dead zone. His point of it was kind of hilarious. His point of reference has always been over the garden wall, which is, like, if you're unfamiliar, is like a very innocent, but also, like, equally like sort of strange and spooky Cartoon Network miniseries that is wonderful, and you should go check it out, but is also maybe not the first thing you think of when you think of Godzilla.
And so we were just told from the jump, you know, have fun with it, and let's find as many strange and kooky ideas to combine with Godzilla as possible.
And so to be able to play with an icon as big as Godzilla, but also to be given the roadway to just do kind of whatever we want to do with it, which is kind of the mission statement of the Kaisei era, is to first and foremost make great comic books. And we want to be telling Godzilla stories that feel like they can really only be found in the comics. Right. Because Godzilla spans so many different mediums and has graced the pages of comics for a really long time. But we wanted to do something that felt like nothing that had come before. So the shared universe part of it is all neat, of course, but, you know, taking all the known lore and finding fun ways to sort of twist it around into a new version that is both compelling to longtime fans and interesting to people who have no idea what we're talking about, it was like a real tightrope walk. And it was a.
It's been a joy, seriously. And Ethan and I working with Pablo Tunica on the Dead Zone books, and of course, Tristan Jones on the Horror of Godzilla, like, we've just had.
It's an embarrassment of riches, as we like to say, in terms of the artists that we get to work with. Both so, like, in their. In their style and have honed their craft so. So intensely so, and have such a voice, and it's been just fun. It's just been fun, which is like the case on a lot of projects. Not all of them, but really it should be fun. And that is, I think, the best word to use for the experience we've had on Godzilla.
[00:07:03] Speaker A: Well, it's. It's the striking of balance. And this is like, in the Kai' sa Godzilla universe, but also, like, recently, a lot of the Star Trek stuff that IDW has been doing, too, which is like, this. Like, those who don't know the massive history of these stories and these, like, universes that have been around for a long time, it's kind of hard to find a place, like, as a reader to be like, I need to jump on, and I can jump on. It's like, it's like reading, you know. You know, the 600th Spider man comic book is hard sometimes for some people to even, like, grasp. Like, yes, you can.
There's ways to avenues in. But like this. But what you guys have been able to do, and I say you guys, as in all of the creators so far in these universes, have been able to do pretty well, is.
Is to let us, who are not humongous fans of these things become humongous fans of these things. And I think that's what, like, Dead Zone to me was that I don't. I've seen Godzilla movies. You know, I've known stories. I know who he is. I know what happens a lot of these things. I know the. The, you know, side Kaiju characters that come along with Godzilla. But, like, deep history and deep storytelling in Godzilla.
I'm a little, you know, a novice on it. So, like, reading Dead Zone was like, I get something cool and new and interesting that I didn't expect to get out of a Godzilla story. Like, I'm expecting bombastic, humongous monster fights. And this is. There's fights in there, and there's these monster battles and things, but, like, it's like, human in a way. And there's, like, this unlikely journey with unlikely friends and characters that get together. And it's like this different vibe that I got out of it, which was amazing, but still there, but still felt Godzilla. And obviously, out of the first five issues or six issues, Is there six issues? Yeah, that. Yeah. The sixth issue, you get no spoilers, but, like, you get to see more of what you're expecting to see from the Godzilla universe. But to me, that's an entry point to me, which I love, but I can also see where it would be fun for those people who are like, I've watched every second of Godzilla movies, read every single story that has Godzilla in it. I'm still gonna get something out of this, and I think that's awesome.
[00:09:03] Speaker B: I appreciate you saying that.
That's the balance. That's the name of the game for us on this thing, is to make sure that we are catering to every kind of reader and every kind of Godzilla fan, because I think there's, like, every kind of Godzilla fan spread out amongst all the creative teams, too. Like, I think Ethan would admit that he's not a lifelong Godzilla fan. He likes and appreciates Godzilla. Of course. That's why we're working on it. But it's not like, ye. He's seen every single movie or anything like that. And I can't. I can't sit here and say I've seen every single one. But certainly, like, I was. I was a fan, and then since we got the gig, I was like, I have a professional reason to just, like, sit down and watch hours and hours and hours of Godzilla. Which is exactly what. What I did. It's like I had a. I had a roommate in college, very dear friend, who was very big into it and was, like, constantly just, like, throwing little bits out there. That'd be like, all right, that sounds awesome. I would just, like, pick his brain about stuff and just never quite had the time to do the deep dive myself until this happened. And now I'm all in. And so finding those ways to sprinkle the things in that, like, me as someone that's coming to it a little bit later and, like, we can, like, recognize the stuff that, like, makes me really excited when I go back to all the Godzilla stuff and being like, okay, this is the bit I want to pull forward, like the longtime fans. Because watching that just now, I got really stoked and it seems like there's a cool way to work it into the story.
So it's just been. It's just been fun because there's also no expectation from the Dead Zone team, really. Like, I think Tim Seeley's probably dealing with it a little bit more on the mainline book. But Dead Zone from the beginning has been all about, like, I don't know, weird, weird stuff that you haven't seen before. So there's no expectation on us to pull in anything in specific. But it's always fun when it just feels right. And there was a bunch of moments of that on Escape the Dead Zone. There's a bunch of moments on that Horror of Godzilla. And there have been a bunch of moments working on the follow up Revenge of the Dead Zone. So we're very excited about where all that's going.
[00:11:17] Speaker A: Yeah, it's fun. And like I said, my whole thing too is that I was a big fan of Kill youl Darlings. And so going to. This is like, you follow. As a comic book fan, you follow creative teams a lot of times too, to projects that maybe, like, have piqued your interest a little bit. But, like, maybe aren't like the I'm waiting in line at the comic book store for kind of thing. Like, I could take a look at that. But, like, when a creative team that you like is attached to it, it kind of like jumps it up a
[00:11:41] Speaker B: level a little bit.
[00:11:42] Speaker A: So, like, okay, I gotta put that to the top, Mike, pull this, not to the bottom. And that's what I think has happened with a lot of these things. It's like with Tim Seeley and the Godzilla, the main series. It's like, obviously, I'm gonna read Godzilla. Tim Stealy's writing it like this. That's a stupid thing, right? And so it's the same thing with, like, a lot of things. I'm a big Marvel Zombies fan of it, and Marvel Zombies for a long time, again, pushes it to the front when you have a creative team that's working on it that I like and so on, and it does the same thing. And I'll chat a little bit about it. I haven't been a humongous D.C. fan for most of my life. I just haven't. It just hasn't got so much stuff to read that it just hasn't moved it to the top there. But I was like, okay, I'm going to read Supergirl Survive, because obviously, again, creative team that I like, and so that probably has helped draw people to Godzilla. And these different stories that are being told in the Kaisei era too, is like, not just these are new stories to be told in the Godzilla universe, but, like, these creative teams that people might want to follow along, too. And so I think that's what's been huge, too. And I think that's what helped some people draw to your book if they liked Kill your Darlings. Like, it's not the same book, obviously, but, like, if you like the way you write or the way you two. You and Ethan work together, then we're going to move over there. And it works the same with the artists, like you mentioned, we were mentioning right before we started recording about how the Horror of Godzilla. I absolutely loved it.
I was able to read it last week, which is amazing. Today is the day for foc, obviously, everybody in this room and everybody at your house is listening to this right this moment to hear that. But, like, so this is way past. We're past FOC at this point, but still, go tell your comic book shop you want it.
Is the Tristan Jones of it all. Like, that to me was like, I love when the creative writing team is someone you like. And then you go, oh, crap. They're like, no offense again, but, like, they're the B person to the A person on this book. And I think it's great, because especially one of those things we could probably connect with on this podcast is not talking about you, but talking about someone else is probably a little bit easier.
Pretty awesome artwork there. Now, the Horror of Godzilla, huh?
[00:13:38] Speaker B: Yeah, it's incredible. Honestly, I think this has been happening on basically every single book that we've ever worked on is like, Ethan and I get to sit back and just be like, holy shit, we have.
Sorry, I don't know if I can curse.
[00:13:49] Speaker A: No, you can swear.
[00:13:50] Speaker B: Yeah, you're fine.
[00:13:50] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:51] Speaker B: Okay.
Well, we've had the opportunity to work with a bunch of fucking great artists is what I will say.
But, you know, from Bob Quinn on Kill youl Darlings, and yeah, Tristan on this, you mentioned Supergirl, Rod Race. I mean, like, that is.
We wanted to write that book just so we could look at Rod's art for that book. Right? So we completely.
We completely agree in all regards that it is just insane, the amount of work that Pablo puts into it. Like, Pablo really, like, Pablo was able to take all the feelings and atmosphere that we wanted the Dead Zone to have.
And even in just our brief conversations with him, and not even conversations, it's all email. Like, he's on the other side of the planet. And so we do not get to speak to Pablo too much. But there was just enough. And then when he gave us those first few pages, it was so clear that we were on the same page. And it just felt so awesome to be like, oh, he's got it. He's got exactly the Dead Zone that I've been picturing in my head. He's putting on paper. That's beautiful. And it's the same deal with Tristan on Horror of Godzilla where it's like, okay, we're doing a very different thing over there tonally, and. And I want it to feel really, really different. And I. We want to capture, you know, the idea of what does it feel like if Godzilla walks up irl, so to
[00:15:23] Speaker A: say, scary as shit, that's what it would be.
[00:15:25] Speaker B: And the answer would be scary.
And so.
And Tristan is just perfect because he's rendering it in just like that. Perfect. Like, you know, he's got so much realism in there, but also, like, an amount of detail that, you know, isn't part of realism is part of, like, his style that just emphasizes how gruesome, how grueling and how terrifying some of these moments are. So I completely agree, man.
It is great. And I also, I want to say, I really appreciate you even saying that people come to a book for us, because I think Ethan and I still feel like we are not, like, there. That's not like we. I think we have big time imposter syndrome. And so to hear that is, like, kind of surreal. So thank you very much for.
[00:16:16] Speaker A: Well, I mean, you did go from like, kill your darlings to all of a sudden, nowhere. You have, like, a ton of books. So it was like this. Like, it was a short span all of a sudden. I know where it was like, oh, my gosh, they are this, this, this, and no, but, like, it's true. And I think that was cool. Cool about it is, like, with the success of Kill your drawings and getting an Eiser nomination and things like that has given you now the ability to work for Marvel and DC and Godzilla. It's all these. It's pretty cool in that sense that now you have been able to touch some pretty iconic IP as well as also getting your own stories in there as well, which is really cool, too. With Blink and you'll miss it, you've been able to do all of it where there is this. I like that mixture to blend. Like, it's nice to see that, too. As someone who does read all of your comics, like, I want to have. If you just wrote dc, I'd be like, okay, I'm kind of. I want some more of your other stories or whatever. But it's kind of cool to see that. And again, to get these different stories. But you're also, like, you're. You're. You're writing Godzilla Escape the Dead Zone, which is a offshoot of Godzilla, in a sense. And you're writing Marvel Zombies, which is like an offshoot of the Marvel. And you're writing Supergirl Survive, which is a Elseworld story. So it's kind of cool is that you're not actually touching all these. Like, okay, you're writing the. The main canon of all, which you are. But, like, you know what I'm talking about. Like, you're like, watching these. You get these variations of things. Is that. That's kind of cool, too, is, like, you get a little playground to play in that, like, maybe hasn't have as much, like, boundaries to it as much as it does if you're playing with, like, the Iron man story that's in the main storyline.
[00:17:43] Speaker B: Yeah, it's honestly been one of the. One of the biggest gifts in all of this is that we get to sort of cut our teeth on all these stories that don't have to play by all the same rules that all the other ones do.
Obviously, like, it'd be cool to be on a main continuity thing. I think there's a certain honor to be asked to participate in that. But as far as creatively I think this is exactly where Ethan and I like to operate, because it just frees us up a little bit more to do whatever we want with the character. Or I should say, it makes it a lot easier. Right. Because continuity.
I like continuity. I love the idea of us playing on. You know, this is a serialized medium, and so the fact that we are playing on, like, 80 years of serialized stories in some instances is, like, part of the fun and part of the challenge, but also very daunting in its own right. And so being off in our own little world and being able to just say, well, what would be the perfect version of this story? And not have to worry about if it totally clicks with what has come before is something we've been extremely grateful for, because I think we've been able to flex a little bit harder, do some stories that we wouldn't be able to do in other instances. And it's been just, again, I'm coming back to it. Fun. Ethan and I, turns out we like this job. We're having a really good time. We're having a really good time doing it. And who knows? You know, it's always fun, just, like, planting the seeds of just, like, our own little thing and just being like, comics are crazy. Who knows? Maybe in, like, 20 years or something, we'll come back to, like, this version of Chara, or we'll come back to these Marvel Zombies, you know, you never know. And so there is, like, a level of ownership that we have over these versions of the characters that I don't think you would feel if it was all just, like, in the main continuity of some of these things. And so, like, characters like Wanderer and runting Glass Eater, like, Dead Zone, really, to us, it oftentimes feels like writing an independent book, and it's like writing an indie book where sometimes you can just say, and then Godzilla shows up and not be sued. So that's awesome.
[00:20:05] Speaker A: It's like writing fan fiction of Godzilla, like, trying to, like, skirt the, like, boundaries of, like, okay, I kind of can get. I can get close to this, but can't go, there's a big monster over there. And they not actually say the name, but you're like, no, I can actually say Godzilla. It's like being able to tell a story. And. Yeah, it's actually that per. Like, I mean, I work for. For a brewery by. By day and for long. We're in Orono, Maine, which is where the University of Maine is, and the universities there were, like, a lot of our ownership group went to school there and so on and so forth. And we're like, hey, let's do a beer. That's, like, adjacent to the hockey team, like, not actually. And then we actually got the rights to do it with the hockey. We have, like, their logos on it. But it was like, at that moment where it was like, can we, like, push the boundaries as far as we can without getting sued or, like, anything like that? And then finally we got it. I felt like that's probably similar to the idea that, like, I actually can play with this thing, but not really. But also we're seeing these days, like, with Marvel, like, nowadays with, like, these new movies that are coming out and, you know, with multiverses and things like that where, like, some of these stories that were just offshoot kind of like, hey, let's have some fun in this little different universe section.
You know, it becomes something that they actually go back to and they actually say, you know, oh, we're actually going to do a Marvel Zombies episode that has to do with your story that you told the Marvel Zombies on tv, which you don't in the past. You wouldn't have thought about that as much. Like, it's not main continuity they're not going to touch in any other medium.
[00:21:29] Speaker B: But.
[00:21:29] Speaker A: But nowadays it seems like, especially with a Godzilla, like, there could be a TV show which has escaped the Zed zone. Like, people would watch that because you wouldn't have to have the CGI and big effects of Godzilla all the time. You'd have to be like, okay, he's here, there. But we're talking about these small, street level characters almost.
[00:21:46] Speaker B: Yeah, Toho already announced they're doing an anime about, like, a boy that has some of the powers of Godzilla. And we heard that. We were like, oh, that sounds like Tim's book. And then we looked at the design. We're like, oh, he's kind of like Wanderer. No shit. And so it's like we're already at the point where it feels like there's a surreal, like, thing happening over there on that one. Maybe we're not involved in that whatsoever.
And I don't know when it's coming out or what the deal is on any of that. I just saw the announcement like everybody else, and we're excited to see if any of it made it in there or what.
But yeah, no, I totally agree. There's just so much coming out that you genuinely never know. And the fact that, like, D.C. and the folks at Warner Bros. James Gunn is embracing doing, like, these elseworlds and animated movies and stuff is kind of like, wow. Yeah, don't count on anything not being on the table. Dude. They could turn around and do a Gotham by Gaslight movie the same year that, like, you know, one of the Pattinson things comes out. They're just the movies and the TV shows have now just, like, totally absorbed all of the things that we like about.
I think the comics, both in terms of, like, how much they come out and what sort of stories you can tell. And certainly, you know, no matter how you feel about any of the stuff that's been coming out, the whole multiverse thing has certainly, like, we got general audiences up, up to the idea of, like, there can be three spider men in one movie and. And have it, like. And have nobody go, like, well, that doesn't make any sense.
So. Which is kind of crazy.
[00:23:25] Speaker A: We've been dealing with that for years. Like, yeah, we've been dealing with that for years. People are like, what are you talking about? We're all like, no, this is normal, guys. This is what we've been dealing with for years. Like, we've had this. This has been a thing. You know, when the novice person who's not into comics that just goes to movies is like, I'm confused. Like, no, we've known this, and we're actually excited for this. This is. This is a cool thing. Yeah. And that's the thing.
[00:23:44] Speaker B: Everyone gets it.
[00:23:45] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. It's. Which makes it really cool because I've always said, whatever way it gets people to read comics, more comics, like, to me, has always been a thing. And also, like, we want these things where it's like, yes, like, the big universes that connect to each other, and it's really kind of cool. That's one of the reasons why I got back into comics, like, 15, 20 years ago was. Was like, Thing. I was like, I could read a Thor book and then read a Wolverine book and have them, like, see the opposite side of the same story. This is amazing. But I'm also kind of guy who, like, I want to just throw a movie on and be like, that's the movie. It's done. So, like, oh, a Supergirl Survive movie would be so sweet. And then. Then just be done. Don't have to do sequels and connected in a way or just tell the story in a different way and so on. And actually, which is kind of funny is I'm recording in a couple hours with Kenny Porter, who did Superman, Father of Tomorrow. So it's also the same thing.
Another story, another way of telling a story that's already been told, but in a different way.
Some of us want that. And I think that, again, animated would be dope because also, DC does phenomenal on the animation side of things. And so dc, Alice, words, animated stuff would be sweet too, but. Yeah, but all these things, though, with Marvel Zombies and the DC stuff you're doing and Godzilla all have, like, this, like, I want more from.
But I'm also happy with what it is. Do you mean, though, like, it has that, like, I like. Comics are comics. They can stay comics.
It'd be cool to get more from this. Like, you know, all you and. You and Ethan do a prose novel based on the Dead Zone, I'd take it, but, like. But, like, I'm okay with this thing as comics, too. That's the thing.
[00:25:16] Speaker B: Appreciate you saying that because that's the real trick to, like, you know, the. This miniseries format that is so, like, significantly taken hold of. Of the medium, it seems. Right. And, you know, for. For reasons that make sense. Even though I sometimes, like, disagree with just, like, a hard set on, like, how many issues it is before we even, like, get the ball rolling. But it has sort of forced us to go into a space where, like, this needs to be. You know, it's five issues, and we don't know if there' to be more. And it really should. We want it to be a satisfying thing for people to pick up, you know, either in the single issues or as the collected edition down the line. We want it to feel like a compelling read just completely in its own right. But also, five issues does not allow us to get, you know, nearly like, even close to all of our ideas down. And so we should leave it in a space where if there's more, there's more.
And that has been exactly how we've had to operate on Dead Zone Supergirl to an extent. Supergirl, I think we, like, we have our really solid plan, and there's, like. There's a lot of just, like, room in there where we can play if we ever wanted to. But I don't know if we will necessarily feel compelled. Marvel Zombies was one where we were like, dude, I could do it forever. I could do it forever. Because it's, of course, you know, it's. It's just. It's all of them. And the tone of Marvel Zombies is such a treat. It's exactly like what we love. You know, we love Sam Raimi and Evil Dead. And so, like, having it be grotesque and awful, but also hilarious to an extent is exactly what we like. So we want to do that.
Honestly, the Horror of Godzilla is the one that felt like, okay, actually this is perfect. Like this sort of four issue block and it will just read like this fast paced blockbuster is actually the, the maybe the one and only time we've been told, like it's gonna be four issues and this is the deal on it that we were like perfect. Yeah, I think that's exactly what it needs.
[00:27:24] Speaker A: Well, I also feel like it's a, it's a prequel, right? So like it's also one of those things like you can only go so far before they start. Like condensing the time into a spot where you're trying to squeeze in more issues to get to the point where you like lead up until the beginning of the Kaiser era what we've seen in comics so far. And so like, yeah, but you can do it and then you can do it and then you can do it and then you can do it. It's like this weird, like five, you know, this little time and then time gets smaller and smaller and smaller because you're trying to shove sequels in. Whereas like Escape the Dead Zone, I guess it makes sense because obviously we're still currently in that. And I is.
It's funny to think about like 20 years ago, how many miniseries were around compared to what it is nowadays. Like everything is a 5, 4, 5, 6 issue miniseries. And I can understand that, like the idea and I like the way this has been done at least like, okay, proven concept Dead Zone. And then you're going to get revenge and then you're going to get the escape of the revenge and then you're going to get all those different ones that are over there. Like, you know, but it makes sense because I also think that like if like Lord of the Rings for example, was told in like a five issue miniseries, it probably would suck. But you need to have these longer things to tell these stories of a journey and things like that. So yeah, I can see that.
I can see how difficult it could be as writing team to do.
You can only write for five issues, but you want to write for 10, but also go five issues with the ability that you might be able to go to 10. So you have to come, you have to, you have to leave the end of Dead Zone in a way that satisfies all of us but also leaves it open enough that's not cheesy where like Michael Myers dies and then somehow gets back to life again and that kind of thing. Like you have to figure that out in that balance. Is that difficult? I mean, you mentioned a little bit about, like, it's like a one of those, like, tariffs, or is it like one of those, like, choose your own adventure where you have it written in a way that you can end it. Like, how does that work with it with. With again, six issues, and then you're gonna get. You're gonna get revenge now, too.
[00:29:14] Speaker B: It's honestly, like, that is maybe one of the hardest parts of the job right now, I would say, is just trying to know what. What should be in the book and what need, like, what do we want in the book and then what needs to be in the book for, like, the space and the efficiency of the story and then what is on the table for, like, you know, God willing, we get to do more. What's like, what's next. So it's a lot to try and balance, you know. Listen, I look at some of the things people say, right? I like that stuff. I think that that's all part of, like, the conversation, me putting the book out. Ethan and I putting the book out is like, us is one side of the conversation, and people's reactions to it are the other side. Of course, some people are more eloquent about how they talk about it, but also, you know, we get a lot of this, you know, like, I wish this was longer or this should have been longer, yada, yada. And it's like, yeah, man. I mean, I agree, I agree.
But also, I think there's just a certain, like, understanding that readers, I think, have to have about. About space and about the nature of the beast at this point. And if you do really love something, you should go out, you should buy a copy from your favorite comic book shop and your retail support them support the book, because that is really the only way that it's. That it's going to happen. Dead Zone honestly was like, we kind of. We kind of just took a shot. It was not a guarantee that we were going to get to do more Dead Zone, but we just had like, a feeling in our gut that if we end this in just the right spot, I think we might like, you know, it just. It will necessitate more. So maybe that will sort of like, help help the folks at IDW and TOHO agree that there should be more.
So we just took a shot and it just. It worked out. So it. I don't think it initially ended with likely to be continued in Revenge of the Dead Zone. It was just like, oh, you know, where's it going? And then when we did get the, the confirmation that we were going to do more, it's like, great tease that. Put that, put that at the end. Let them know there is more coming. There is more to this. And, and there is more. Pablo Tunica is drawing issue three of Revenge of the Dead Zone right now. And it has been absolutely insane. We are packing that book as full of as many ideas as we possibly can. So.
[00:31:57] Speaker A: People need to. I know that the trade waiting thing is there, and I understand that and I believe that. And that's one of the things we're talking about here, is to trade for Escape Godzilla. Escape the Dead Zone is right on the. We're on the cusp of that right now. It's in, it's in June 24th, 23rd, somewhere around there. Right around there, yeah. Is. So you want to be able to buy the trade, but buying the trade helps with like the, the publishers, the editors, the people out there going, we believe in these two writers or this, this creative team. Like, we believe in this story they can tell. And so, because that does help that stuff. But like, getting more comics in this series that you're like, I wish it was longer. Can we get more? Is really only helps. Like, we can say the most amazing things on the entire Internet as people who are in the reviewing community.
However, if it didn't equal books being sold, I hate to say this people, but it is a business. Like, these people are trying to make money. And so, like, we can glorify and say that you can win awards, you could win Eisner's, you can win Bram Stoker Awards, you can do all those things and still it doesn't matter if you're not. The books aren't selling off the shelf. And so you. To me, it's always like one of those things that if you believe in a book and you want to trade, I understand that because I'm a kind of guy who collects floppies and I want them to be in pristine condition and all that stuff. But I also go out there and buy the trade because I want to be able to read the comic book again or whatever. And so like, to me, it's like, if you believe in a book and you want more from it, you should be buying issues one through six, because that's the only way it's going to prove that this is a successful comic book. It's still a comic book industry. We're not in a graphic novel industry.
That's the book side of things.
And so I'm trying to get people to buy the trade because I like the comic book so much. But in the same sense, all of you should have been buying the comic book all along, if you really like it, which kind of. It's in this subject at this point. But like horror Godzilla, like, go buy the single issues to help promote the Kaisei world and universe that we've got going on here. Because that's what publishers look at. And again, it's a creative field. You're a creative writer. You got creative people working on this team, and you want the creation, the artwork to speak for itself. But again, we all know that they pay you a paycheck and they have to pay the bills and get the lights on things like that. And so with that being said, you need to buy the books to show that they're worth investing into you guys as well. So it's easy to say when I may have some expendable money to actually go buy all the comic books that I have. But it's tough because, again, if people don't have the money to go buy it, but it's cheaper for the trade or whatever it may be. But single issues make a difference, man.
[00:34:21] Speaker B: It's true. Everything you said is completely true. And, you know, comics is like a very.
Has always been a masochistic. I feel like industry and readership as well. Like, the sky has been falling on the comic book industry since the 1960s. It feels like since the 1970s, people have been like, oh, comics are dead. Comics are dying.
But the fact is, it's not.
However, it's a tricky. It's a tricky business because, yes, we have to rely on kind of like an archaic system because everyone. All the retailers are so disparate. All the publishers are kind of disconnected and are going through different distributors at this point. And so now it is hard to try and, like, make it easy for the whole thing to succeed. When will anybody invent a better way to do this? I don't know. You would think it would have happened by now, considering the medium as we're talking about it is coming up on, like, 100 years old, and we're still using techniques from, let's say, conservatively, 30 years ago.
I don't know. But somewhere out there is a developer who is a big comic book fan, and here's me begging that person to please come up with a better and easier way for everybody to order comics through a comic book shop. Preferably, I don't know. I don't know how to do it. But, yes, everything you're saying it is immensely important to support the single issues on a title because that is really the only way. Unless the trade just like absolutely pops off, I don't think you're gonna see that turn into more books.
[00:36:04] Speaker A: But then also timing wise, like your schedules, like if you're. And you're also becoming more hot, like I said, your books are coming closer together, like, you didn't kill your darlings. And then, you know, it's like everything's like on top of each other in a sense. But like it's. If you, if you're like, oh, cool, the trade for Dead Zone sold a million copies. Yes, of course you want to do more of this thing, but now you're on to this and you're on this and you're doing this and you're hired to do this. They're like, okay, cool. You're like, I can write that, we'll write that. But it'll be 2027 before I can even get started on it. And then there's that gap, like, will it sell very well? Because there's that big gap between it. Like all of that comes on, like to be. Ability to say there's more coming at the end of this series makes more sense to be like, cool, I'm going to wait and put that on my poll list and make sure I tell my, my retailer before foc, which again, even those great people who buy books every week don't understand what FOC stands for. Like it's still one of those, like weird, like it's. And some of comic book retailers that don't even understand it that well, which is still funny.
But yeah, it's like it's the weird industry that you're in that you're in. But like it's. Yeah, the single issues make a lot of sense. And I guess, I don't know, I talked to people who read prose novels. Like, would you read a prose novel that was like a fourth of the book every 25% a month? Or would you still buy the 25%? Or would you wait? It comes out in 100%. I would say guarantee that most of those people would say, I'm just gonna wait till 100%. Is that before, you know, and just wait that point? And then there'll be the die hard people who are reading week to week or month to month. And that's. That's true. We're in a weird medium here, which is like you, we were asking your readers to be like every month go pick a book up for me and you hopefully you don't forget what happened in the first issue before this second issue comes out. And, you know, if you get behind. And now you're like, I just bought issues four through six and. Or, sorry, two through six, I should have just bought the trade. I understand all that. It's just one of those things that, like, said numbers speak volumes. And I think that there's. I've spoken to creators before where they're like, yeah, the book didn't do very well, but all the Reddits and the. And the social media people are like, clamoring how much they loved it. And it was like, well, people just didn't show up to buy it. It was weird. It was a. It's a. It's a. Like I said, it's a hard thing. And like you said, it's never been going to be figured out anytime soon in the time where you're writing comics at the moment. Still not figured out, but you'll do what you have to do and so on and so forth. But so to me, I'm always like, buy the trade still. Because I have a whole shelves full of trades that have, like, the equivalent comics as well. I'm just a glutton for. For collecting and things like that. And so people do buy trades. Trade comes out for Dead Zone in June. Go buy it. Because I think it's an awesome book to read if you're a fan of even, like, thinking about getting into Godzilla and you don't know much about it. Like, this is, like, a good place to start because we'll start with Tim Seeley's book, but, like, then read this book.
One thing I wanted to ask you really quickly is, is there you and Ethan write together? Oh, it's not together, but like your duo writing duo.
Are there ever moments where you guys really are.
[00:39:00] Speaker B: We hold hands. He's sitting next to me.
[00:39:04] Speaker A: Do you ever have moments where you're like, no, we completely, utterly disagree with. With what each other want the story to go or how this story gets. You know, obviously, I think more on the creative side, our creator own side of things. You guys are doing your own story. So from the beginning, even going back and forth. But like, on things like Dead Zone or Supergirl or Horror of Godzilla, Marvel Zombies, are there times you're like, I want to go this way and he wants to go that way, and you just not argue but, like, disagree on things or is it pretty you guys know each other now?
[00:39:34] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, we, Ethan and I have been friends for over 10 years now, and have been making stuff together in some fashion for basically the entirety of that friendship, whether that were. That was like podcasts or whatever it might have been. And now it's comics.
We've been working together for a very long time, as long as we have been friends. So I wouldn't say we, like, outright disagree on, like, anything anymore. I do feel like there was a lot of like, kill your darlings. You know, we were on the phone for hours and hours and hours every day because we just wanted it to be so perfect to the point where we would even, like, start disagreeing just with ourselves and just would double back on ideas that I would say something and then, you know, we would keep talking and be like, that thing. I said, forget it. It's stupid. I don't like it anymore. And Ethan's like, well, now I like it. I'm like, no, forget it.
But now I would say we're just so mind melded at this point and have such similar tastes and priorities in terms of storytelling. We have the same sort of north stars that we like.
And I think now it's less like a complete disagreement and more it's all very, like, nuanced stuff. That's the stuff that we disagree on is like this. He should look at him like this instead of this, because that's going to convey this, this, and that. And I should. I'll say to Ethan, well, like, don't say that, because that's going to sort of. That contradicts, you know, what this is doing. But it's never like a big, like, story beat.
I feel like, if anything, it's more of we break a certain version of the story together and then when I start doing my side of the script, which is all of the breakdowns and everything, writing more specifically to the artist and really honing, like, what action, like, literally what happens in the issue and what happens on each page and in each panel. There will be some deviations, you know, on my part from, like, what we planned together. And that will usually like, take me having to get him on the phone and saying, like, okay, so this is where we were heading. This is what we had in the outline. This is where I've ended up.
This is like what I think is. Is working still just totally in line with what we talked about and this is what might need to change. And we have a. We have a conversation about all of that stuff. And sometimes Ethan is just gung ho, and other times he's like, a little bit more trepidatious and certainly vice versa.
But no, no, for the most part, we are just, like, stoked by the stuff that each other comes up with. And that's been one of the great joys of working on all of this has just been I get to read a bunch of stuff that my buddy wrote. And that is the best because we sort of. We do write together, but we write separately, right. In the way that we split the script. So, like, there's always a moment where I get to give him something to read and he gives me something to read that we haven't read before. And so then. Then the comic book fan side of it, that's who has more disagreements, is not so much me and Ethan, but, like, me and Ethan playing devil's advocate for any side of it, any, like, the readers or whatever, it's less so. Like, I'll come to something and be like, I think this is great. But I do want to say, like, you know, the readers, you know, they might think this, this, and that, and ultimately that stuff is not super, like, on our minds when we're doing it, because I love readers. I love you.
I want you to have a good time with the book. I want you to take away something from the book. But ultimately, like, I write for me and Ethan writes for him, and like, we write for ourselves.
It is. It is something that fulfills me spiritually. And so I do it for that regard. But sometimes, yes, we do think about what would the readers think? And that's, I think, where more of the discussion comes from and less disagreement between Ethan and I. I wanted to
[00:43:47] Speaker A: say you guys actually hate each other, but this works so well together that. That you just do it continuously, like. Right. That's why you guys aren't in the same room. It's because you guys don't like each other, but it just happens to work. And so, you know, you guys are oil. Use your oil and vinegar, but sometimes they go together in a recipe. And this works.
[00:44:04] Speaker B: I will say, you know, we do the whole thing remotely. Right. Ethan has lived on the other side of the country from me through our entire partnership, and it seems it'll stay that way for at least the foreseeable future.
But we did get to write the last issue of Kill youl Darlings. We put all the finishing touches on, and we finished writing together.
When we were at New York Comic Con, whatever year that would have been, 2023, and issue one had just come out, it was such a surreal moment because the first issue had come out, but we were writing the last issue and we were on kind of a tight turnaround because we were going to the show, we weren't going to have any time to do it. Bob was waiting on pages, and we didn't want to keep him waiting, so we had to really lock in, like, the moment we got into the hotel room that night for New York. And that was the first time and maybe the only time we've been able to actually write simultaneously, like, together in the same room. And that actually was a heated, like, evening, because it's the last issue, right? And so again, we're, like, trying to make it, like, perfect, and we both kind of have an idea of what perfect is.
And there were points where neither of us had eaten. And it's like 10pm and I'm on one side of the room and I'm like, typing away. And then I scroll back up and I'm like. And I turn around. Did you change this? And he's like, yeah, I thought it was stupid. And I'm just like, can't just change it on me, dude. He's like, all right, well, I don't want it to be that. I'm like, great, what do you want it to be then?
[00:45:41] Speaker A: Well, I can picture that, too, because I could also, like. Like, you write that letter to someone, then you delete it. Like, you get all it out. Well, you could do that. Like, you're probably right. Emails. And then you're like, no, I'm not gonna say that to Ethan. And then you're like, okay, that's a better way of saying. But now when you're in the same room, it just comes out. You're like, shit, I can't take that back. I. That it's out there now. I'm sorry, I can't. I can't take that back. I was mad at you, but now, you know, I guess we're as. We're moving on, but I can see that, like, it's like, the technology works. We're doing this via zoom and works sometimes, right? Technology works. But no, it. It makes it do that. Like, I have some stories that I have the plot written, you know, and the concept of it all there. But, like, to me, I'm like, my mind doesn't work, putting it into script. Like, I just can't get there right now. And so I thought to myself, I love a partner where I could do that with and do it. In all likelihood, my next door neighbor is not going to do it with me. So in all likelihood, the person that would work with me is going to be in California, where I'm in Maine. And so like, it's going to be that way of like possibly chatting with someone and talking about this book creating. But like it's across the country and it's. It happens all. I've had a podcast episode with people on three different continents. Like, it's just, like, it's just. It happens that way and it's just cool about the way that modern technology has worked is we're getting these stories that we might never have gotten if it wasn't for this technology of email and text and phone calls and zooms and all that stuff, which is really, really, really cool. And that includes the horror of Godzilla, which FOC again is today when we're recording this, but comes out July 29th. So you have this episode's coming out in a couple weeks. That will actually be time for you to tell your local comic book shop that you still want it because they can do pull lists and things like that even if you didn't pre order. I'm sure most people are over ordering, over ordering. But like if they have 10 people ordering it, they're ordering 15 copies. This is not like their number one. This is a, this is a comic book. This is a Godzilla comic book. And now in a horror, Godzilla, I mean, horror is huge right now too. So like there's a mixture of these things that, with the name horror in it. And it is horrifying, I'll tell you that much right now. Like, it. There's some books that you feel and I think that like there's some angles that Tristan really draws in on some people's faces and some, some, some emotions on people's faces that like, that you would actually go, this is horrifying. Like, this is not just. This is not just a monster being there, but like the repercussions of this monster being there and the political side of it and the science side of it. Like, this is all this goes into it. You're just like, holy God. And then that one image that they shared as part of the preview images of Godzilla in the water where the splash is coming out and it's like this down, like looking up at him. Dude, that's actually.
I got the images right because I get the PDF, whatever, and I might have made that my background around on my laptop, one of the page spreads so, you know, no one else sees it. But like I see it because again, it's this terrifying thing and I love horror. I think that like Godzilla is terrifying, but this is like another level to me. In that sense that it's not just, oh, my God, this. This Godzilla creature might step on me. There's just like, there's way more to it in this story. And I only get to read the first issue that wasn't even, like, fully polished. And so I'm excited to see where this goes from here and it goes on. I'm excited to see what super happens for Supergirl in that series as well.
And whatever you guys have come, obviously Revenge of the Dead Zone, but whatever you guys have coming next, because I. I'm there, I'll be there waiting in line for a next book. I can't wait. I'm excited. I'm excited for it. But trades are available for all these things. Again, we talked about reading single issues, but, like, kill your dimes, you can get on trade. Dead Zone, you can get in trade. Marvel Zombies just came out in trade not too long ago.
The Red man, which is also was really cool. We didn't really touch on that. But, like, the fact that you got to push it a little bit further than maybe some previous Marvel zombie stories, it was actually pretty cool too, I think this Red Band stuff.
And yeah, again, Supergirl stuff will be out in trades as well too, if you do need to trade way. But Dead Zone is right now. It's coming out right now.
And. And horror. Horror of Godzilla and Supergirl out now on in single issues.
Yeah.
[00:49:37] Speaker B: And I do.
I would be remiss to. To skip over blinking. You'll miss it.
[00:49:43] Speaker A: Sorry, I have it on my thing.
[00:49:45] Speaker B: No, no, no, no. You're. You're good. You're good. There's a lot. There's a lot to talk about, thankfully. I'm very grateful for that.
Blink and you'll miss it from. Came out from. Boom. And we had. Keith Browning made his series debut on that book. That's a book that we are so immensely, immensely, immensely proud of. That is, you know, the.
All of this has been follow up to Kill your Darlings, of course. But Blink is the only independent, true blue, 100% Griffin and Keith idea that we've had out since Kill your Darlings. And so if you really dug Kill your Darlings in like, the full unfiltered version of Ethan and I, then go check out Blink. It's a book that we're super, super proud of, super stoked about. And yeah, that trade is out tomorrow.
[00:50:37] Speaker A: Technically. Yeah, tomorrow at bookstores and Wednesday comic book shops, which is again, one of those weird things about bookstores.
It comes out two different days depending on where you buy it and some of them, like image is like a month later. But no, which is great because it gives the LCS the first crack at it. But yeah, I did say I was focusing on the things that are coming out in the future and I forgot that this actually is coming out tomorrow this week from Boom Studio. So it's phenomenal. I was able to read as well. It's a great story. It's again, it's the true blue. Like you mentioned creator owned stories. Obviously these stories are all ones that you've come up with, but this is like no one else had any influence in it but you guys, which is really cool because if you like to kill your darlings again, that's what you want to go with.
[00:51:22] Speaker B: Like kill your darlings. If you like time travel or romance or being sad and existential, then I think blink and you miss it is definitely the. The book for you.
[00:51:35] Speaker A: It's 100%.
I'm so happy that you took your time out of your day to chat with us here on the podcast because I said I'm a big, big fan. And since kill your Darlings, you've been on like that list of like, I'll get to them at some point and then like, things happen, schedules get there and then like this, like this coordination. And Kim over at IDW was like, yeah, you want to come on my account? Let's do it. And I got half of the team. So it means that later on in the future either just Ethan needs to come on or, or we'll get both of you on. But no, I think that's amazing and thank you so much for taking your time out to at least chat with us today. And I'm so pumped.
You and you guys, you're an Eisner nominated creative writing duo. You guys are being are super successful right now and I'm so happy for that because I want more. So stay busy.
I want you to stay busy because
[00:52:24] Speaker B: I don't really think you are staying busy. And I greatly appreciate you saying all that. You've been super kind. Your questions have been great. Thank you so much. And yeah, seriously, anytime you want to have us back on, feel free to just reach out. This was a blast. Thanks for having me.
[00:52:40] Speaker A: And if things go the way they're going, there'll be other things to talk about, I'll tell you that much. It's true.
But I really appreciate it.
[00:52:47] Speaker B: Thanks, Justin.
Sam.
