Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to the Capes and Tights podcast right here on capes and tights.com dot. I'm your host, Justin Soberg. This episode, we are talking episode five, the Empire strikes back from the Star wars trilogy, here with Paul Eaton of Galactic Comics and collectibles. Star Wars Week is in full force, and we're here to talk another Star wars movie. And Paul hates Star wars, as you'll find out in this episode. But before you listen, follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, blue sky threads, all that stuff, as well as rate reviews, subscribe, all those things over on Spotify and Apple podcasts and everywhere you can find your podcasts, as well as their YouTube channel. You can go over there and check that out and capesandtights.com. So this is an episode talking the Empire strikes back from the Star wars original trilogy here with Paulie Eden of Galactic Comics. Enjoy, everyone.
The Empire of Paul strikes back here on the Capes of Tights podcast. Welcome back, Paul.
[00:00:57] Speaker B: Whoa. I'm back. Look at that.
Didn't you have to go to hoth or anything?
[00:01:03] Speaker A: It's. The funny thing is we're actually recording it on, like, one of the nicer days of the year. So it's like a hot planet. Yeah.
Which is one of those things that.
[00:01:12] Speaker B: February the fourth be with you or something. It's like, yeah, it would feel, like, hot, but that's one of those things.
[00:01:17] Speaker A: I think I actually start off with that, and this Empire strikes back discussion is that I respect the change. Big thing about Star wars is it's in space, so people always just assume spaceships, black skies, and stars and all this stuff.
George did a great job over the three, first three films and all the films to do, like, change of scenery. Like, obviously, you get a lot of, like, desert planets and things, but, like, there's jungles, there's cold weather, there's deserts, there's space, there's spaceships. Like, it's not like you're just stuck.
[00:01:47] Speaker B: On, like, I feel like you get all sorts of stuff.
[00:01:50] Speaker A: No, definitely Sci-Fi movies where you're just like, the whole movie is just on a spaceship.
[00:01:54] Speaker B: Right.
[00:01:55] Speaker A: And it gets kind of boring in that sense, but, like, no, like, the beginning. This starts off in a winter, winter planet. Um, and I was watching, um, as we get rolling into this, I was watching that documentary, finishing that documentary, Empire of dreams, and, uh, they filmed the shot where Luke is, like, walking out into the snow.
[00:02:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:02:16] Speaker A: And they all were in, like, the entryway to the hotel they were staying in. And it was blizzarding. And they, like, the camera crew and all the directors and everybody else was like, inside the warmth, and they're like, mark Hamill, just walk out there. And they made him walk out and he turns around, they're like, yeah, hold on 1 second. Come back, do it again. And he's freezing his balls off and everybody else is like, drinking hot cocoa inside watching.
[00:02:41] Speaker B: I'm glad about that guy.
[00:02:44] Speaker A: But before we get into Empire, but I wanted to do one off the top thing is, I watched this documentary, and Lucas's explanation of why he updated these films and why the graphics are better and I kind of understood and kind of felt for him is that he didn't have the technology to make the movie that he really wanted to in 1977. So, like, he has the ability. It's his own movie, his own thing. And here's the deal. It's Disney's fault.
[00:03:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:03:09] Speaker A: The reason why we have those are the only movies you can get. So it's really not George's fault because George released those in 1997 as special editions. They weren't the actual thing. And it didn't like, I don't think it was years later before they actually like, yes, now it's just Disney's like, no, this is the one. And they don't, they don't even have the other one.
That is like Disney's fault. Not George's fault, in my opinion. My opinion. George is like, why not create special editions? There's director's cuts, there's all these other versions of something. But when George released it, I think they were still on the shelves. You could buy the regular in the special editions. And then slowly it became that the special edition title host dropped and it was just Empire strikes back. It was just, you know, a new hope, and that was it. So, so I do understand that. But in the same sense, you know, you are hindsight's 2020, so when you make a movie, it's a movie. They didn't go back and change back to the future or he never really. Did he go back and change anything in Indiana Jones?
[00:04:06] Speaker B: I don't think so. I wonder if there is a director's cut, Indiana Jones that has, like, some fresh stuff in it, because Indiana Jones is another one that definitely, like, for its time is great. But if you were really looking at it for what could be done now, it would look a lot better, like clean up. That being said, I once again had not seen this, like, version of the movie. And I once again sort of disappointed with all of these, like, extra bonus scene stuff that gets added that doesn't really need to be there. Although I feel like Return of the Jedi had less of it.
I could be wrong, but it didn't seem like there was as many. Like, the big thing I think, is there is in the first, you know.
[00:04:47] Speaker A: Well, I mean, it was three years later. There are some things they were able to do differently. He learned a lot. He had a bigger budget, so maybe that's why, uh, you know, his budget in it ended up being $30 million this movie when it was eleven for a new Hope.
[00:05:00] Speaker B: So like, yeah, I read about that. Yeah. And he actually got more budget, like, as they were going, like, oh, we're.
[00:05:07] Speaker A: Going to need to spend more.
He made a fortune, but he financed the first $18 million of this movie by himself. So he. His profits from a new Hope and then a bank loan he financed to make this movie, to hold on to his rights for the movies. Like, he didn't trade, hey, I'll give you 50% of the rights to Star wars in exchange to finance this movie. Because obviously the film industry is based on a lot of that stuff where they're putting the risk up of the millions of dollars, if it doesn't make that money back, they're the ones that lose it, not George and so on and so forth. So he took $18 million of a bank loan and profits from, from a new hope to make this movie to retain the rights. Obviously, looking back on it, Paul, one of the best decisions he ever made in his entire life because he worked out Disney for $4 billion years later. And so there's that worked out over the time.
[00:05:55] Speaker B: I don't think at, like, at any point did George Lucas be like, oh, man, I don't know if we're going to be able to, like, cover groceries this week or, you know, you have to cut back a little. Like, but if he did, he did something terribly wrong.
[00:06:10] Speaker A: He was saying, though, that, like, difference between, like, bank financing, like financing through a bank on your own and financing like a movie by yourself is that there's no leeway. In a sense. There was like, oh, this movie's not out yet and you're asking for more money. That's it. Cut the financing off. You owe us all this money now. We're done moving away.
[00:06:27] Speaker B: Yeah. Whereas in the sense, because there's nothing for the bank to, like, repossess on the bank to gain. Right. So, like, yes, they could make back a huge amount of money if it's successful and they get all of their interest rate back and whatever. But if it flops, they have, they have nothing for recourse.
[00:06:43] Speaker A: There's a possibility if he didn't have the money to pay some of these loans or to be able to work with these banks and say, I want to still do this the way I'm doing it, he would have sold off some of the rights and yada, yada, yada, it would have been different that he would have been able to make the move because basically made the movie that he wanted to. That's the other thing is because he's financing, he's doing it. We'll release it will make a bunch of money on the back end. But the guy who worked at 20th Century Fox at the time, who made this deal got fired, basically, and like, ostracized because of the deal was so bad for Fox in a sense, because, like, how much money George Lucas made.
[00:07:15] Speaker B: How much everybody else got with them.
[00:07:17] Speaker A: But the problem was, is that the guy was like, talking on this in this documentary. He's like, dude, the theater, the company still made millions and millions of dollars off of these movies. There was still profits to be made of. This is like they didn't make as much money as they could. It's like, it made them their. Fox's normal, like, annual revenue or like profit in the year was like $30 million. In 1976. In 1978, it was like $70 million solely because of Star wars. And they're still fired the guy because he didn't make a hundred million dollars. It's like, oh, my God, seriously? Yeah, but that was the thing. It's like, if you can go back and change it, cool. I do think that some of the changes I'm happier with than not adding more stormtroopers behind a crowd of people that only like two or three. Okay with that because it gives, like, depth to it and shows how many stormtroopers there are. Adding that stupid creatures. They were on, on the sand, you know, looking through the desert, looking for the droids in the first movie was not necessary. And so there's, there's a difference between what you could do and what you can't do. And at the same time, Paul, I'm reading the biography of Anthony Daniels called IMC Three Po.
[00:08:27] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:08:28] Speaker A: And he was talking about it sucked filming basically sucked filming the Prepo trilogy because George loved technology so much that he just wanted to make everything. Like, there was no even attempt or thought process that, hey, we should do this practically. He's like, nope, green screen, blue screen, we'll just put it in there. Don't worry about it. Like, half the shots that R Po are in are not actually there. They're just CGI'd in later and stuff like that. And so it's like he was disappointed in the fact that they did such a good job with the first three movies that George relied too much on ILM's, you know, technology of making Star wars, you know, fake things. But, you know, I don't know. I hate to say, because there's certain people, like, I love technology, so if I can use a computer to do something or a phone to do something, I want to do it more that way than practical effects. But I don't know, I can see it both ways. And I think we just had such a good. He did such a good job with the first three movies that, you know, you kind of ruin the lore of Star wars by making these original trilogy or.
[00:09:26] Speaker B: Sorry, right.
So pre twelve. Yeah.
[00:09:29] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:09:29] Speaker B: And that show, the prequel trilogy, definitely shows as a lot of CGI and now hasn't aged as well because the CGI is so much better that it looks that way.
[00:09:39] Speaker A: So if he still owns Star wars, this is obviously sidetracked because this is obviously about the prequel trilogy. If he still owned the rights to Star wars, would he be allowed to go back into those movies and update those CGI things? Like, I imagine probably put millions of dollars into a rerelease of updated graphics on things because they probably could. Computers, the whole deal, the original files, they just pull the old, old CGI away and put CGI in. It should be fine, right? I mean, it sounds, I'm making it seem like it sounds so simple, but it does sound so simple. I mean, this is a green screen. There's the original files somewhere where they just delete the, the original CGI and then ILM goes back in and puts new CGI in there. I just.
[00:10:14] Speaker B: That would be cool thing.
[00:10:16] Speaker A: I would appreciate that. Honestly, I think they actually could make some money off of the original, the prequel trilogy by doing that.
[00:10:21] Speaker B: But, but they probably could and, like, have a whole new launch of that because there's a whole generation that loves one, two, and three Star wars. That was their Star wars. So if you put that back in theaters with, you know, some, some new scenes and new, like, this would have been a year shots and stuff. Everybody would.
[00:10:36] Speaker A: Anniversary. Yeah, it would have been a mess, but yeah.
[00:10:41] Speaker B: So one thing I would say watching this now, like, I'm sure I watched it at some point on like a Blu ray, but most of my watching of the Star wars movies is on VHS. So now in such a high, clean definition, um, to me, Yoda really, really looks like a puppet. Like, really looks like. And, like, as a kid listening to Yoda, I was like, oh, it's Yoda. But now being older and having so much more, I don't know, so much more of this stuff in our face. Right? Like, everything. Everything you see more.
All I can think of is Jim Henson. Like, it looks like a Muppet. It sounds like a muppet. Like the voice actor they had did a tons and tons of Muppet characters watching the Muppet Christmas Carol every year. Yoda could just be in that. Like, it wouldn't. So I feel like I had a harder time this time, honestly, with this movie in that section of it. And I think on the VHS tapes, like, they're darker, they're not as clean. And his movements are sort of blurred a little. So, like, it's a lot more forgiven watching it now. He, like, it looks like a guy's moving the cane with the stick and moving them up.
[00:11:50] Speaker A: Well, that's what people say when they started doing this. Like, this is kind of a funny comparison. When they came up with 4k pornography, people were like, no one wants to see that in 4k. Like, there's no. The people that want to do that for a living. And out there are not the kind of people you want to see in four k. And it's like, maybe it's one of those things that we did have a benefit to, a lesser quality.
[00:12:09] Speaker B: Yeah. A lot of imperfections were forgiven.
[00:12:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:13] Speaker B: And it's almost like now it'd be nice if they went back and made that section not so.
[00:12:17] Speaker A: Yes, exactly. But obviously, he would be killed if he took away Yoda as a puppet and put him in a. Yeah, you.
[00:12:24] Speaker B: You have to have Yoda there. You have to have yo as a puppet. I think it's true.
[00:12:27] Speaker A: Well, there's two things on that.
[00:12:28] Speaker B: One is maybe not clean up.
[00:12:29] Speaker A: That is an iconic character. There's a couple things I want. That's a good topic to start on here. Is you is he's such an iconic character, Yoda. Like, he is like a, you know, in the pantheon of what top.
I'm gonna. Most recognizable.
[00:12:44] Speaker B: I'm gonna get, like, blacklisted for the things I say about Yoda and stuff, aren't I? Yeah. But, like, ten decline out of all.
[00:12:52] Speaker A: The characters that Georgia Lucas created for Star wars universe, these top ten Star wars characters, and he's only in just under 18 minutes of the entire nine movies.
And it's crazy to think about how much of a thing. And so it's funny as Darth Vader's in 45 minutes of the original trilogy, total.
That's also insane compared to Luke Skywalker, who's in 2 hours of the original trilogy.
[00:13:16] Speaker B: Like, total.
[00:13:16] Speaker A: Because obviously the side shots and there's all that, you know, now they break down some of the space stuff.
[00:13:20] Speaker B: You get all this. You get all that.
[00:13:22] Speaker A: But, like, do you think we have, like, because he's such an iconic character and he's well loved and he was, you know, ahead of his time in the time of making Yoda a puppet and things like that, is that we give it a little bit more forgiveness on both the way he looks in the movie nowadays as well as the way he talks that. Like, if someone created a character in the movies nowadays that talked like that, we'd all be like, what the hell is wrong with you? This is ridiculous. Why does he need to talk this way?
[00:13:49] Speaker B: I think you definitely have, like, forgiveness for nostalgia glasses of it. Like Yoda's Yoda. I remember watching one, two, and three and being excited when I saw Yoda, right? Like, hey, there's Yoda, look. Oh, and then like, the fight scenes with Yoda one, two, and three where he's all over the place and young and going all over and you're like, wow, Yoda's awesome.
I see how he's like the surviving Jedi master, right?
So, yeah, I mean, I think Yoda's not my favorite Star wars character, but I like Yoda and I think it is. But watching it now and watching it from, like, in all out, like, let's look truly look at this movie. Like, Yoda is kind of rough. Yeah, Yoda's kind of rough.
[00:14:30] Speaker A: Here's the other far paw. How old is Yoda? Like hundreds and hundreds of years old, right?
[00:14:34] Speaker B: Yeah, he's like, what is he, like 700, 800 years old?
[00:14:37] Speaker A: This movies are made. And again, this is one of those ones where we're going to be on the same page here. Some of this stuff is like, these movies are made and everybody speaks. Most of the main characters speak English, right? Okay. And Yoda is around enough Jedi and doing all these things over the number of years. In 700 years, he hasn't learned how to speak proper English.
[00:14:58] Speaker B: He's just stubborn. He's just old and stubborn.
[00:15:00] Speaker A: I'm thinking myself, if I had 700 years, I live in a spanish speaking country, I would probably speak Spanish at some point pretty well.
[00:15:07] Speaker B: You think you'd gap my English?
[00:15:10] Speaker A: Would probably be way better 700 years later. Speaking English for 700 years. It's just kind of funny how, like, you know, and I don't know, how many years. How many of those years did he not talk like? I mean, we see Grogu in mandalorian. He's not speaking.
[00:15:21] Speaker B: So he's over 100 years old. Right? Like, Grogu's been, like, this legend for, like, 100 years, and he's still an infant.
[00:15:27] Speaker A: So there's that aspect of it, too. But that's just kind of funny. But I was like, but, yeah. Yoda is an iconic character of Empire strikes back. Empire strikes back. A lot of people use the Darth Vader of all, like, the COVID of the movies always have a Darth Vader background. The name Empire strikes back, just like says Darth Vader in the whole thing. It's a sequel, obviously stars all the same people from the first movie. Plus, Billy Dee Williams jumps in there, and obviously Frank Oz jumps in there, too, because that's who voice and puppeteers Yoda. Yeah. And so there's that love thing. They've got Hoth, we've got at at walkers. We've got Han and Leia's budding relationship, but also the fact that she kisses Luke in this and George Lucas's love for incest and weirdness going on in this movie.
And then you got, like, this is, like, the reason why I feel like this is the best Star wars movie is because it has a little bit of everything. It has that love story. It has Yoda, it has droids, it has hoth at ats, it has lightsaber duels. Like, it has all that in it.
[00:16:36] Speaker B: I'm going to throw out that. I think the battle of Hoth is the greatest Star wars battle except for.
[00:16:42] Speaker A: The at seem like they're really too easy to beat first.
[00:16:46] Speaker B: They're terrifying. If you were one of these ground troops and that thing's coming at you, like, literally, they're on this, like, snow planet, right? And they're sort of, like, burrowed underneath it, and the place is shaking and snow's falling from this thing walking, and it's still, like, miles off, and it's walking and it's shaking the whole, like, foundation. That's terrifying. And, like, if you're just like, here you are with your little blaster rifle that isn't doing a damn thing to it. Like, that's terrifying. No. Yeah, you get into like, all right. The snow speeders can take it out using the Tokails, but before that, they're flying shooting at it, not doing anything.
[00:17:19] Speaker A: Yeah, you're right. But I just, like. You know. And everybody out there just like, well, we're going to do this, too. It's at. At. If you hear someone say at, smack him in the face. I'm just telling you right now because.
But the funny thing is, it's like, I always thought that, too. I was like, oh, but it makes sense because everything else that's a machine or a droid of some sort is always saying the letters. And so why would this be an ad at, you know, an art?
[00:17:41] Speaker B: Well, you have the ats. You're not going to say an ax.
[00:17:44] Speaker A: No.
[00:17:44] Speaker B: You know, yes. The two footed version instead of the four footed version, which it looked like, I don't think I noticed in one of the scenes, there's an at ST in the background going past the at and t. And I don't think that was in the original. Cause I don't think we saw atsds until the third movie. So that must have been, like, an add in. Well, that was one of the things that just made the battle scene look bigger and stuff, and that was cool. Like that.
[00:18:06] Speaker A: That's one of the things that you talked about with Adam when we did with the prequel trilogies a couple years ago, which you can listen to. We have them on our library. Is that the droids in the first three movies, like, the droids in episodes one, two, and three, are so, like, crazy different. There are some of the droids that are in this, machines that are in this, but it's like, the ones that, like, the ball I'm gonna get destroyed by Star wars guns with a ball that rolls around and shoots up with. With General Grievous. Um, those are not in this movie because it was a creation by George Lucas for the prequel. Like, this is funny. Like, none of that stuff would be in here. You wouldn't see one somewhere.
[00:18:43] Speaker B: Yeah, you don't get any of these, like, battle droids and this and that. Yeah, because those. Those, um. I can't remember what those things are. I think they're called either. Shoot. Yeah, the ones that, like, roll and they open up and they have a shield over them. Um, yeah, battle droids.
[00:18:58] Speaker A: You don't see any of that stuff. Like, you don't even see, like, those things are missed.
[00:19:01] Speaker B: I can see. Maybe they stopped using those, like, you know, roger. Roger ones.
Those ones that roll are, like, those things were terrifying to try to fight. You think they'd keep using those things.
[00:19:14] Speaker A: But, like, you wouldn't see, like, a hodgepodge where someone, like, put a piece of a battle droid, like the head of a battle droid on something else or anything like, it just, you know, there's a Reddit article.
[00:19:28] Speaker B: It's like they got the Stormtroopers and they're like, all right, we'll stick with these guys. Even though you droids would be easier, like, following command. They can't be met. I jump like, like my Jedi mind trick, even though they think the Jedi are destroyed by then. But there's no way to, like, control them through that. Um, so it's funny to, like, just, oh, we're just only going to really use soldiers now.
[00:19:49] Speaker A: Like, you gotta feed these guys.
[00:19:50] Speaker B: You got anything else to droids? Like what? They're probably, like, solar powered, and you just stick them out there.
[00:19:55] Speaker A: This is a person wrote on this on Reddit. Is it ever explained how droids in the prequels and other prequel media like Ahsoka and Rogue One are significantly more advanced than droids in later movies?
[00:20:05] Speaker B: Yeah, the droids in later movies are just sort of. There a trash can.
[00:20:08] Speaker A: One of them. Trash can. We have a trash can in this one. I'll tell you right now, Paul, we have a trash can in this one too. The trash can droid shows up in this movie in Java palace. He's in Jabba's palace.
[00:20:19] Speaker B: That's the next movie.
[00:20:20] Speaker A: I'm sorry. Next movie. Sorry. Yeah, he's in that movie.
[00:20:22] Speaker B: Yeah, that's not yet.
[00:20:23] Speaker A: No, I have my notes open next to each other. I just opened the wrong one. Right? The. Yes. Hoth is amazing. But there's also the Star wars, the ultimate duel between Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker, which is amazing.
[00:20:34] Speaker B: So you get like, yeah, it's a good scene.
[00:20:36] Speaker A: Yeah, you get lightsabers, which is, like, iconic for Star Wars. I would think your hoth part planet is probably one of the more recognizable planets in the Star wars pantheon. Right? I mean, like, this opening scene in this movie is with you cutting open the bantha and the whole line about I thought you and saving Luke and thinking that, oh, is this the end of Luke to be almost.
[00:21:00] Speaker B: Luke is so much cooler in this movie than he was in the first movie in the first movie on school. This one, like, Han is like the coolest. Like, you know, your tauntau freeze for you make the first marker, then I'll see you in hell.
[00:21:12] Speaker A: Like, he was badass.
[00:21:13] Speaker B: He.
[00:21:16] Speaker A: I think is a lot that I actually wrote a note on here. This movie is definitely made better. Like, all. Yeah, because obviously you learn from your first one, you get the ability to do the second one. You have a little bit more technology. Three years later.
[00:21:29] Speaker B: I was thinking with sequels, it helps, too, because the, the characters are all done. We're not, like, having to get into this whole introduction who they are. And by now, the actors sort of figured out what they're doing, right with these characters. They know who that character is. They've, they built them. I feel like. I feel like sequels a lot of times I would. I like sequels for that aspect.
[00:21:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:50] Speaker B: Like, so, yeah, in this one, we've, we've got all of our, like, ground laid, who these people are, what they're doing. And, um. Yeah, Leia is, like, way more like, badass general in this than, like, I don't know, the first one, she's badass, but she's very like, oh, the princess. We got to save the princess, whatever. And this one, she is, like, much more in the role of being, like, starting that role of general and the troops listening to her and everything. And I personally also go on to Hoth of, I think the snow speeder is the coolest vehicle. I don't know why. Yeah, I don't know why. I've always just thought the snow speed was the coolest. Like, when Star wars video game started coming out and you get the battle of hot and you get to fly snow Speeder, that was my jam. I'm like, oh, yeah. I'm like, playing that board over and over and over again. The snow speeder. Even though taking down the at ATS are a pain in the butt in that game. Yeah, but that was, that was my jam. I was like, yes, finally, the snow speeder.
[00:22:44] Speaker A: Well, I mean, like I said, part of me is like, I don't know the whole history of these things, but, like, how much of this stuff was written down ahead of time? How much of it was, like. Like, between episode one or episode four and episode five?
Did George start making this and writing this stuff? Obviously, like, ever as he's making the movie, he's rewriting things and doing things and things like that because. But the difference is, is he didn't direct this movie, and that's one thing. That thing. Is he only, in the original trilogy, he only directed episode four.
[00:23:11] Speaker B: Yeah, he decided because he wanted to focus more on the effects and everyone.
[00:23:18] Speaker A: So, yeah, he had to run the company. All this stuff. He's like, I just can't do it all at the same time. And I'm like, this is your baby. I feel like this is one of those things that you. So he wrote it. He wanted to hire Steven Spielberg.
This, which would have been. We've been interested to see. I mean, this movie was amazing as it was. I can't imagine seeing Steven at the helm of this.
[00:23:35] Speaker B: But Spielberg had done it. That's how to be that different in the first place. Or like, would we be still looking at more or less the same movie?
[00:23:43] Speaker A: Same movie, yeah.
Irving Kirchner ended up being hired. But the reason why he didn't get Steven Spielberg is that at the beginning of this, did you know of us? He left because of something. I figured it was. Now I can't remember exactly what it was. It was a. There was a thing that he wasn't allowed to do or. No, no, he. Oh, yeah, that's what it was. The credits. So the credits of a movie made in 1977 and 1980, they had to. But by the WGA and the actor Actors Guild and all those things had to be put at the beginning of the movie. That's why you always see the credit.
[00:24:15] Speaker B: Rolls on long start to every movie back then.
[00:24:20] Speaker A: That was part of their. Their contracts agreement with the guilds and all these things that had to be done there. He got an approval because of what he wanted to do for 1970. Seven's a new hope to put them at the end. Because he wanted that.
The crawl. He wanted the opening scene to have so much impact that it. You wouldn't want to be distracted by people's names and things like that. He just did it on his own in episode five. So an Empire strikes back. He just put him at the end without the approval, without the thing. And they fined him a quarter of a million dollars for doing this, which.
[00:24:53] Speaker B: In the grand scheme of things, like.
[00:24:55] Speaker A: They also fined the director and a bunch of other stuff too.
Lucas paid all the fines and all this stuff. Yeah, but because of that, he is so pissed, he just says, well, screw you guys, I'm leaving all the guilds. So he left. He left the producers Guild, he left the actors Guild. He left all directors guild, writers Guild. He left them all. And because of that, he couldn't get Steven Spielberg with. Steven Spielberg was part of the director's guild. And so. And so at that moment, he had this time where he had to get someone that was not part of the guild or. Or whatever. And that's how he ended up with urban Kitchener. And so that is an interesting thing on that.
[00:25:25] Speaker B: Talking about, like, Steven Spielberg and all the Steven Spielberg movies. Like, I think I've probably seen the majority of, if not all of Spielberg's movies.
[00:25:34] Speaker A: Of the good ones.
[00:25:34] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, let's, let's go that if someone told you or you didn't know, would you sort of think this was just team spielberg anyways?
[00:25:44] Speaker A: Well, it's funny about it. It's like when I was like, oh.
[00:25:46] Speaker B: Yeah, steven Spielberg did Star wars. Would you really argue? Be like, okay.
[00:25:49] Speaker A: The first thing people would think about is, oh, my God, wait, george lucas didn't direct this. Like, that's the first thing I think about.
[00:25:57] Speaker B: Did everything right.
[00:25:58] Speaker A: Yeah, but he didn't.
[00:26:01] Speaker B: Yeah, but if somebody said, oh, yeah, five and six were directed by, you, didn't have your phone or, oh, they're directly steve spielberg. I don't know that I would argue that might have been like, oh, really? Okay.
[00:26:10] Speaker A: Which adds up.
[00:26:11] Speaker B: It looks right.
[00:26:12] Speaker A: Which is funny, because he has proof that that was because in 1981, he went on to, he went on to direct raiders of the lost ark for lucas. So that was, and that was a thing that fox screwed that up by firing that dude I mentioned. Yeah, he, then george lucas said, well, screw you. Then you. My next big project is not going to be with you. And that's why he went to Universal. And Fox could have had the rights to Indiana Jones if they would have just not screwed all the pooch out of. So Fox didn't make very good decisions over the years.
We, we, we are comic book fans here, and we realize that Fox hasn't been the best movie makers in the, in the world of comics. So.
[00:26:49] Speaker B: No, they do, they do a stellar job of mediocrity at best. Yes. Yeah. They're very good at being mediocre under.
[00:26:57] Speaker A: It's interesting. So, so with George not directing it, maybe we got a better film. Like I said, I do think this is better than a new hope. So maybe it, with the new. Yeah, I think another, another person looking at something and telling this, calling the shots of George stepping back and doing some of the more technical stuff and the more big picture stuff, maybe we got a better movie out of it. That's, you know.
[00:27:18] Speaker B: Right.
[00:27:20] Speaker A: It's a good thing to have a second opinion, in my opinion. Like, it's a good thing to have, you know, it's not when you're making decisions for your comic book shop, it's you and Liz. It's not just you having that extra set of eyes, even if it's your partner, even if it's your wife, it makes sense that it's still a second set of eyes. And this one's someone who doesn't know the source material. Like, your wife isn't like, I think you should do this with the Captain America because she doesn't know it. But same thing with Urban Kushner. Didn't know the whole lore that George, George Lucas wanted to, wanted to tell. And so you have someone with fresh, clean, untainted eyes. I think it's a great idea. I think that's what happened with this. I think that's where we got a better movie than the first movie.
[00:27:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree. I think I like Return of the Jedi. How boss is Han Solo with the Leia running to tell him that she loves him. I love you. And he's like, I know.
[00:28:09] Speaker A: Also, there's a little bit of a risky of a whole. She said no. He forced himself on her, though, too, this tiny bit. Not much when they're in the cave. And she's like, I don't know. And he grabs her arm, not, like, forcefully, but just, like, lightly grabs her arm and kind of pulls her closer. And she's like, no. I'm like, yeah. At this point, I don't know if that would have gone over very well now.
[00:28:28] Speaker B: Yeah, probably not, but I don't know. I mean, that's. That's the hard.
[00:28:31] Speaker A: No, I know. It was innocent. It wasn't.
[00:28:34] Speaker B: Later on there, he's getting put in the carbonite, and she, like, steps forward and I love you. I know. Like, yes.
[00:28:40] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then she. You tell it.
[00:28:43] Speaker B: You mean the argument on hoth is, like, epic. They are. I still laugh as I've seen this a thousand times. I still laugh of their arguments. And she's like, I'd rather kiss a wookiee. Like, I could make that happen.
[00:28:54] Speaker A: Scruffy looking Nerf herder.
[00:28:56] Speaker B: I say that constantly to my kids. I tell Kate, looking nerve herder constantly.
[00:29:00] Speaker A: It's funny because I'm like, he looks way more put together in this movie than he did in the first movie. He's not scruffy in any sort of fashion. But I'm like, this is like, that's a great swear. If you think that's a stare.
[00:29:11] Speaker B: Scrubby looking. That's what insults him. Not the nerve. Hurt her part, you know, whatever nerve.
[00:29:15] Speaker A: But, like, you can see that in the beginning, it's that. It's that romantic tension that. That you're hoping you're like. And then when we saw it for the first time before we found out, I mean, spoilers alert that their sister, brother and sister, Luke and Leia, it makes sense that they would be the key romantic part.
[00:29:33] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And meanwhile, not knowing that you have the sort of romantic triangle first of, like, Luke's the clean cut good boy.
[00:29:42] Speaker A: She is playing both sides of it. You know that, right? Like, you see this? Like, she's like, I think she's setting herself up. Like, when you're in high school and you're, like, talking to two different girls because you're like, one might like you one night, you know, you want to make sure you. You know, you're basically covered. I think she's doing both. She's playing both sides here, and then finally falls, you know, in love with. With Han, and luckily they did it, that he falls in love with Han prior to finding out that there's an.
[00:30:04] Speaker B: Alternate universe where she ends up with Chewbacca.
[00:30:07] Speaker A: It's called a furry pornography movie.
No, but, like, the idea that she didn't find out that she was, like, she didn't fall for Luke and pick Luke and find out their siblings, find other siblings, but she falls for Han, and obviously, that's George Lucas's point, because she's like, I don't want this to actually go further than this one kiss, which I don't think he realized how much of an impact this kiss would have for, like, for years and years and years to come. It's like you made siblings kiss in a movie that you knew as a writer.
[00:30:40] Speaker B: That was, like, a passionate. There. Yeah.
[00:30:43] Speaker A: And he lays back down, puts his arms behind his back, and he's just like, ah, look at that there. Han Solo's like, what the man?
Um, did you notice that, uh. Talk about Hoff. And in that scene right there, and. And the, um, the. The being attacked, he. The scar was that. Do you think that was because he had that car accident?
[00:31:05] Speaker B: Oh.
[00:31:06] Speaker A: Trying to, like, anything look different from. From Luke Skywalker, that this is the reason why he had that scar.
[00:31:13] Speaker B: Get him out there. And the. The snow monster or whatever, which. There were a lot more snow monster scenes. Oh, those were add in there. And I will say, like, they made the snow monster, like, scarier. Right?
[00:31:27] Speaker A: It's called a wampa. Wampa, Paul.
[00:31:29] Speaker B: Wampa. Wampa. All right.
Like, more. More scary, because, like, as a kid, it was scary, but it was fast.
[00:31:37] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:31:38] Speaker B: He's in there. He cuts himself loose. He chops off the arm. He runs away. And that was basically the short long of it. Instead, this thing's over in the corner, like, eating the tauntaun. You assume it's a tauntaun. He's chomping on there. And, like, it's, I'd say it's a little more like, horror background there.
[00:31:56] Speaker A: Picture this, Paul, picture this. Picture the Rudolph the red nosed reindeer came out prior to this. Okay.
[00:32:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:32:03] Speaker A: So you know how we have this whole, like, trend nowadays of, like, movies going and things going through the public domain and people making, like, horror versions of classic stories?
[00:32:12] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:32:12] Speaker A: This just get this exact design to be a bumble from, or the monster from Rudolph. You know, I mean, that bumbles bounce and things like that. Like, that looks identical to the snow monster in there, but, like, more like horrified. And I'm thinking to myself, all I can see every time it's in the cave, they're in the cave with Cornelius in the, in the, you know, like, it's all the same. And this is just a horrific version of that in that sense, but, and it's funny, they're not even on hoth for that long, but I feel like that's what the focus of this whole movie, when you watch this movie and.
[00:32:49] Speaker B: You think of, like, cloud city.
[00:32:50] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:32:51] Speaker B: In the battle, the star, the lightsaber battle and stuff. Yeah.
[00:32:55] Speaker A: Billy D. Williams.
[00:32:56] Speaker B: And I guess you think about meeting Yoda. Those are like, those are the biggest three keys to the whole thing.
[00:33:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:33:01] Speaker B: But, yeah, Billy D. Williams really isn't in this movie all that much, but is.
[00:33:05] Speaker A: But he's also a dick. Like, so, so he reminds me a lot as a Marvel fan. He reminds me a lot of Loki where, like, he helps you, but then he also screws you over behind your back. And then he helps you, then he screws you over behind your back. And it's like he's definitely all in it for himself. Like, it doesn't matter. If Han was like, this is my girlfriend, I'm still going to slide into those DM's kind of thing.
Yeah.
[00:33:25] Speaker B: And then you get, like, the, um, you know, he was trying to be what was right for his people because he was responsible for, you know, however many people live in cloud city there. But, yeah, 100%, like, stabbing your, I don't know if they're supposedly friends stabbing his friend in the back.
[00:33:42] Speaker A: There's still just, but, yeah, and you.
[00:33:46] Speaker B: Screw him over to, like, you are giving him to the empire. You're giving him to Jabba the hot. Like, there's, that's pretty bold. Like, dick move, man.
[00:33:58] Speaker A: Anybody funny about it too, though, on the other side of it, Paul, is that he quickly realized how shitty person he was. Like, within half an hour of the movie, he like, was like, oh, shit, let me get you out of here. We get. Let me try to help you now.
[00:34:09] Speaker B: He would have even turned back if Vader hadn't kept, like, changing, you know?
[00:34:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:34:14] Speaker B: Be thankful I'm not changing it more. Do I have to leave a garrison of troops here? Like, all these threats. If Vader had just been like, all right, cool. We got him frozen peace. We're out of here. Like, would he just been like, all right, cool. Well, you know, Leia and Chewbacca, here's your apartment you get to live in. And I'm going to keep trying to slide in your DM's.
[00:34:31] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:34:32] Speaker B: Hey, your boyfriend's frozen.
[00:34:34] Speaker A: Go to Chewbacca. Is he sliding Chewbacca's? DM'S?
[00:34:37] Speaker B: Maybe.
[00:34:38] Speaker A: They're just. They're not even actually words. There's returns of cops, which is funny. So, like, yeah, which, you know. Yeah, it's funny how he still. He also doesn't know how to speak English. And I mentioned that in air of the empire, the book by Timothy Zahn, there's a wookiee that knows how to speak English. And so it's like, how the hell has.
[00:34:57] Speaker B: You know, I sort of thought with wookiees and I don't know, cuz I haven't gotten that deep into the Star wars lore stuff. I sort of thought that he's like, groot. Groot. The same way we keep saying I am Groot, but actually group Groot has, like, a telepath ability, a minor telepath ability. So you start understanding them. Like, I sort of figure wookiees are semi like that.
[00:35:18] Speaker A: Like, it's not dumb monsters. Don't even. Don't even kid yourself. They're dumb monsters that just.
[00:35:27] Speaker B: But so you be smart enough to fix a millennium Falcon and, like, put c three fuel back together, right?
[00:35:33] Speaker A: Like, yeah, that's good point.
[00:35:34] Speaker B: Yeah, he's super. He's, like, very strong. He is a big, giant, like, animal that rips, like, arms off. Limbs off things, apparently. But, you know, overall, like, he's wookiees. It can be intelligent. They have blasters.
[00:35:49] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I just think it's kind of funny. It's just like, the grunting. It's funny too, because, like, I mean, you meet multiple new characters in this movie. We talked about, like, multiple iconic characters in this movie. So you got Billy DeWilliams, you know, appearance as.
Yes, thank you.
My train of thought got totally screwed up there with your Wookiee impression. The Lando Calrissian.
[00:36:16] Speaker B: You meet.
[00:36:16] Speaker A: You meet Yoda.
[00:36:17] Speaker B: Right?
[00:36:18] Speaker A: So those are like, new mean, big characters you get to meet. You also get to meet Boba Fett in a sense, because he's on the bridge.
You know, a lot of, I feel.
[00:36:29] Speaker B: Like there were extra, definitely extra scenes of Boba Fett that they. He still doesn't do anything.
[00:36:33] Speaker A: He says one line added in. He says one line. He says, as you wish.
[00:36:37] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:36:38] Speaker A: And that's it. And it's funny is later on, I talked to Ethan Sachs this week on Star Wars Week as well. And later on, a lot of those characters show up in further episodes of Bounty hunters comic books. They have show up in, like, Mandalorian and the book of Boba Fett and all those movies. There's some of these characters you see on the, like, all those different ones that are on that bridge that he's talking to. All the bounty hunters, all of them show up at future times in the Star wars universe. They just don't say anything. They don't do anything. They're just there.
[00:37:08] Speaker B: They write them in and add background.
[00:37:10] Speaker A: And so with Fett becomes this, like, iconic character. People getting tattooed and stuff like that. It's like the two was on screen for 30 seconds in this movie.
[00:37:17] Speaker B: Yeah. And, well, my, my best friend, one of his favorite Star wars characters is boss. He's always, oh, boss, boss, boss. Boss is like the lizard guy there. That's toenails. Like, when there's a. I don't know what he is. Like one of the captains or whatever on the star Destroyer, but he turns around, he looks up there, and the Bosca's claws are, like, clicking. And whatever reason, my best friend Don was like, oh, Bosque is the best. And I'm like, he doesn't say anything. He doesn't do anything. Like, we have no idea what he is. He never, boss never even shows back up again, I don't think.
[00:37:48] Speaker A: Really, like I said, he shows up back up in, like, tv shows, and then you get in the tv shows.
[00:37:52] Speaker B: In the comics and everything else. But as far as the movies go, for our childhood, for him to think that boss is so cool is amazing because he has the same amount of screen time is. Yeah, Boba Fett.
[00:38:04] Speaker A: Well, no, actually. So Boba Fett has six and a half minutes of total screen time in the entire original trilogy. Okay. We talk about the Yoda being surprising that he's such an iconic character with 18 minutes. This guy has six and a half minutes, has very few thinking lines, if any, and became this, like, iconic character. It almost reminds me of this new, the new minor threat series coming out from Kyle Starks and Ryan Brown about a character that was at the bar in the original series, minor threats called Barfly. And now there's an entire new series about it. It's like there was this whole, like, people gained attention to the mystique and the mysteriousness of Boba Fett and his cool suit. It also had to do with the parade. And you've heard about. You've known about this part, right? The parade that they tried to get characters out there to do it. And Darth Vader was one of them. And the other one that they had a suit ready to do. And all this stuff at this parade in George Lucas's hometown, which was. It was Boba Fett. And so Boba Fett was in this parade, walking around. He was more in this parade than he was in. In all the movies. People saw him, got autographs, took pictures with him and all that stuff. So they created this accidental, you know, hype for a character called Boba Fett. He went on.
[00:39:10] Speaker B: He saw a Star wars action figure, the original Star wars series figures. Boba Fett's the most sought after one.
[00:39:16] Speaker A: And he went on to have his own tv show and things like that. And obviously, he was part of the holiday special in the animated part of it. So, like, all that stuff, which is funny because that all came out prior to this weird. The holiday special came out prior to this movie. And he. So he was actually. His first appearance on screen was the holiday special.
[00:39:33] Speaker B: I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny because, like, I don't know. Everybody loves Boba Fett. He's so cool. But, like, yeah, he doesn't really do a whole hell of a lot, which is cool, original. And watch this redo because there's, like, a few scenes where he's taking shots at Luke on Cloud City. And I was like, was that there originally? Yeah, like, I don't remember if that was there or if that was an add on.
[00:39:58] Speaker A: See, this is why this is the. This is the difference between you and I and this whole situation and why I like Star Wars a lot. And you absolutely despise it, is you keep going back to that. And it's like, to me, again, is the same thing. I don't care because I enjoyed the movies, whether it's different or not. I don't care about that because to me, there's certain things that do distract from it. It's. They went back and added the CGI in a point where the CGI wasn't that good yet. Even so, your characters and your things, you added, you're like, that doesn't look right because it was that some.
[00:40:28] Speaker B: In our next recording, it was.
[00:40:29] Speaker A: That was added in, like, just around the same time as episode one was being recorded. And it's like, okay, so that CGI was bad. So you're adding bad CGI to a movie that you didn't need to do. So there's that. But I still enjoy it because I'm like, okay. It adds the experience. Obviously, there's special effects. The things they do where they, like, do a lot of reverse shots in this one where they, like, film it forward and then reverse the shot to make it seem like he's using the force and things like that. When they're sucking up the droids in episode or episode four, they are. They drop the droids out and then they suck him back up and things like that. So, like, you know, which was something I was funny.
[00:41:07] Speaker B: Something I think was funny with this one that, like, came to me. So, um. So we crash lands, uh, in the Dagobah system there. Out in the swamp. Yeah. And, uh, you see r two, like, wandering around the swamp. Like, he gets out of the x and he falls off.
And later on, when he goes to leave, r two is back on top of the x wing. And then you like, you know, we download our r two unit, we get bluetooth. He's all set to go. If you don't, you. I sort of assume you had to use the force. Get him up there. And if you don't and you're just out in space and you land, how the hell do you get this droid back up there? I mean, they seem to be heavy. He's not, like, lifting it.
[00:41:46] Speaker A: And you learn this in the original trilogy or prequel trilogy? Okay, bye.
[00:41:53] Speaker B: Yes, because you did see that. You see him take off, but you don't know that.
[00:41:56] Speaker A: You don't know that.
[00:41:57] Speaker B: Why are they loading them in all the other spots? All the ones we got this because.
[00:42:01] Speaker A: They'Re inside their heads. They're putting them on because they're inside. They're afraid he's going to smash into the ceiling. I don't know.
[00:42:07] Speaker B: You don't want all these, you know, all these droids, like, flying around there that aren't really all that trustworthy.
[00:42:11] Speaker A: It's probably ffa. FAA regulations.
[00:42:13] Speaker B: Ball.
[00:42:13] Speaker A: Okay, let's be honest here.
[00:42:17] Speaker B: That guy needs his job, all right? We're paying him to pick the droids up and put them in the spacecraft. So, you know, they've given. There's an entire like long, extensive contract and they have a union to fight if they got rid of those guys, so.
[00:42:29] Speaker A: Yep. Okay.
[00:42:30] Speaker B: That adds up. All right.
[00:42:32] Speaker A: You see, you're thinking too much of this. It's just. Yeah, but, yeah, I don't know. There's other, there's, there's, like they said, I think this movie in one of those season, maybe it's because I've watched this movie the most. Like if I'm just gonna pick a Star wars movie right now, it'd probably be rogue one because it is enough of a standalone movie that, and it's like fun because it gets you amp trap to potentially watch the original trilogy because it goes right into it and all that. Like this. That's cool about it. But other than that, I think this is the one that I go back to the most. I think it's. Cause it's got hot. Cause it's got Yoda and Yoda's swamp on Dagobah. You've got the lightsaber battle and stuff like that. You have all that, they've got cloud city and that stuff in there and, and so on and the carbonite and all that stuff. Which, which is funny. Cause Luke Scott or Mark Hamilton, Mark Hamill, Harrison Ford wanted George Lucas to kill him off in this movie.
[00:43:16] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:43:17] Speaker A: He said, someone needs to die in this movie to make it like last. Long lasting and so on and so forth.
[00:43:22] Speaker B: Yeah. Make it a war. Make it.
[00:43:24] Speaker A: Yeah. And so the idea potentially was that they put him in carbonite, that he potentially wouldn't come out of carbonite. And then they convinced him to come back for the next movie and they thought him out and all that stuff.
[00:43:36] Speaker B: Yeah. Cause this ends like, it ends sad. And this was one of my, this was definitely one of my things with this movie that I did have. And I feel like it's still an issue with some sequels now, is that this movie did not have an ending.
[00:43:48] Speaker A: No. And I wrote that down.
[00:43:52] Speaker B: Two and three here. Or four and five. Say Star wars four and five. Or one movie. Yeah, or five and six. Five and six. One movie split. They just, they just had to find a spot and be like, well, we're just gonna cut this out.
[00:44:05] Speaker A: Well, that's the thing is I wrote a new hope allowed for sequel. Like a new hope allowed for this sequel. Like allowed the possibility. But it also had.
[00:44:11] Speaker B: Right. Yeah.
We had the ending of New Hope.
[00:44:15] Speaker A: But the end of this is definitely sets up a sequel. Like there's like, you find out he's your father, you find out that David Darth Vader is his father. You find all that information, how you finally know the whole arm thing, and you're like, okay, what's gonna happen? What's going on here? And so there's, like, a bunch of stuff at the end, this movie that.
[00:44:31] Speaker B: Lando and Chewbacca to go try to rescue Han. Like, if. If the movie never came out, they never got six done. Yeah. This would be the worst cliffhanger movie ending ever be like, what? There's nothing. Nothing is resolved. Nothing is solved in this.
So this, my only ever problem with this movie is I feel like you finish it and you've got to start the return of the Jedi also. You just feel incomplete.
[00:44:55] Speaker A: I mean, they did it with Harry Potter's last book, was Harry Potter Deathly. How is part one and part two? I mean, they do it nowadays. Yeah, but mean, yeah.
[00:45:03] Speaker B: If this is across the spider verse into the Spider verse. Ended. Across the spider verse. Didn't end. No, across the Spider verse. When it came out, they just sort of were like, well, you're right, because.
[00:45:13] Speaker A: Technically, Infinity War and Endgame are both technically one movie in a sense. They originally supposed to shot that way, but there is an ending, but still, it's not an ending enough that you wouldn't be.
[00:45:23] Speaker B: Yeah, it's not. It's not a satisfied completion.
[00:45:25] Speaker A: No.
[00:45:25] Speaker B: And that's my only other thing I would have against this one, is that is it doesn't feel like it really ends.
[00:45:32] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:45:33] Speaker B: Like, it's just sort of.
[00:45:34] Speaker A: So I also wrote a note about ending here. I do love at these films. Any of the Star wars movies, you're talking like, just like, if Star wars, but this. But mainly the original trilogy. If the original trilogy came out in 2020, 2022, and 2024, for example, would there be post credit scenes?
[00:45:52] Speaker B: Probably.
[00:45:53] Speaker A: Like, it we did.
[00:45:54] Speaker B: It was you would have had. When Vader gets shot in the opening in the first movie, and he's spinning through space, I think you definitely would have had, like, him crash land on the planet and whole Vader down thing, and then they would have made a Vader down movie probably nowadays, or.
[00:46:11] Speaker A: There's so many options, Paul, I didn't want to get.
[00:46:13] Speaker B: You had that whole story arc of what happened there, so I'm sure you would have an end credit scene. They're showing Vader and, like, him, like, getting ready to come back for the Empire strike back.
[00:46:24] Speaker A: I would have been.
[00:46:26] Speaker B: I'm sure there'd be something like Jabba's palace, like, him showing up and with, like, Boba Fett showing up with the carbonite pawn and, like, that whole thing would be an end credit scene for sure.
[00:46:36] Speaker A: I think they would have been great, but they would have blew off six. They would have done one for six, and then we would never would have, like, would have been, like, some sort of weird thing, but maybe would have forced them to do a different thing for 7896.
[00:46:47] Speaker B: My couple of e walks, like, sitting.
[00:46:50] Speaker A: On end of six. They could have, like, done ends happily. Like, six could have put thrawn in this whole thing.
[00:46:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:46:58] Speaker A: And they kind of, like, ooh. And they would have been forced to do a 789 with freaking Thrawn, which still baffles me. You have this character that was amazingly love of thrawn is.
[00:47:07] Speaker B: Oh, God.
[00:47:08] Speaker A: And you're, like, over here going, it's.
[00:47:10] Speaker B: Your love of thrawn equals dawn's love of boss. You know that, right?
[00:47:13] Speaker A: But my point is, like, it's like, obviously I understand. And I can be like, we have a. We have a guy that comes into your shop that is very anti star wars right now because of the fact that they had all these, like, legacy books and things like that. He's a piss that they don't use that as adaptive material. I'm like, well, it's different. In my opinion. It's a different. It's technically was at one point, canon, but when the things are progressed and Disney bought it, they have to choose it. It happens that way. It's fine. It's more fan fiction than anything, in my opinion.
[00:47:37] Speaker B: And I'm okay with his favorite Star wars.
[00:47:39] Speaker A: Yes. But, like, Thrawn is a character. Throm was the follow up villain. There's never gonna be a villain in Star wars ever again. That's equal to Darth Vader ever. And. But the next. No best villain you possibly could get would be someone like Thrawn. And we ended up with Kylo Ren. Like, that's my point. It's not even just that Thrawn is the best villain out there. It's the fact that that's what they went with was Kylo Ren over Kyler Tyler.
[00:48:02] Speaker B: And personal humble opinion is awful.
[00:48:04] Speaker A: Yes. There's nothing casting.
[00:48:08] Speaker B: I do not find.
So I. I think his image is bad. I think the. I don't like the casting, personally. Um, I think he's like, he's whiny, he's uninteresting. He's just. Just bad. Everything about his bad. And that's the problem, because I feel like they tried in that series, they tried to, like, get a little bit of Darth Vader back. Yeah, let's try. Because he's got. He's got Vader's helmet and he's got this, and it just doesn't work, because if you're going to do this and we want Vader and there's no. There's no recasting Vader. There's no recreation. Nothing is going to be as iconic as Earth Vader. Yeah. So there's no getting it back. My personal favorite character in all Star Wars, Darth Vader.
[00:48:48] Speaker A: Yes, they're there. Honestly, the next best they could have used, obviously, because obviously, was a prequel trilogy, so they couldn't have used it. But if you were to put Darth Maul, hold on to Darth Maul and don't put him in the story of the original trilogy or the prequel trilogy, Darth Maul would have been a better freaking, you know, yo.
[00:49:05] Speaker B: Better villain than Kylo Ren. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:49:08] Speaker A: Another character.
[00:49:09] Speaker B: There's another. This other completely different person that the. That the Jedi, you know, the dark side is trying to train, trying to raise, you know. Yes. That would be a better storyline. That would be. That would be a much better storyline.
[00:49:26] Speaker A: Another character that the Star wars universe has lifted up and been.
[00:49:29] Speaker B: This.
[00:49:29] Speaker A: The most amazing character has, like, six minutes of on screen time.
[00:49:33] Speaker B: That was something I never understood with the phantom menace. He's not on the freaking movie. No, he only. He doesn't. He barely even says anything. And yet everyone, he. He's like, absolutely right up there with Boba Fett in the, like, yes. Die hard, passionate love this character. That's not. He doesn't do anything because he has two lightsabers. Everybody thought he was cool.
[00:49:52] Speaker A: Also, a double ended lightsaber that no one else has in the first. And then it makes sense that Kylo Ren has, like, a special lightsaber because that's after the original trilogy. So things have progressed. The fact that he has a lightsaber that's double ended in the prequel trilogy, you don't see ever again, and he's the only one that has it. It's like, okay, this is weird, but, yeah. Like, why does Darth Vader not have one?
[00:50:11] Speaker B: This whole going back to one, two, and three thing, we have the whole problem again with Ben, right? With, uh. With Ben Kenobi being like, oh, you know, that our boy is our only hope. Oh, there's another.
It will Ben, like, you can't tell me Obi Wan didn't know that. Yeah, Obi Wan didn't know about.
[00:50:27] Speaker A: He's too much peyote.
[00:50:32] Speaker B: He forgot.
[00:50:32] Speaker A: Yeah, but in the.
[00:50:35] Speaker B: All those years in the desert doing wizard crap, he forgot all about it.
[00:50:39] Speaker A: This movie had everything. And again, here's my thing is, if Star wars was ever made in one movie, there was never anything else. Star wars, the movie. This should have been the movie, not a new hope. Like, obviously.
[00:50:51] Speaker B: Besides not having an ending. Yeah, yeah. Besides.
[00:50:54] Speaker A: Yes, you. Obviously, this is only thing you're ever going to create. You might have changed the ending a little bit, you know, to make it a little bit more, you know, satisfying. But, like, this movie has, like, everything. Star wars. You ever want in a movie? In a movie, I think. I think they're.
[00:51:07] Speaker B: You give this five stars?
[00:51:08] Speaker A: I give this five stars.
[00:51:09] Speaker B: You give this five stars? All right.
[00:51:11] Speaker A: It's one of my few five star reviews on movies, honestly, because it's better than. It's better than a new hope. And I gave a new hope at five, four and a half stars. So, like. And I don't give .7 fives or anything like that. So, like, I'm giving this five. I know it's not as much on yours.
[00:51:26] Speaker B: If I give it a point, 75, I probably would. I guess I just still give it a four or five. There you go.
[00:51:31] Speaker A: That's fine.
[00:51:31] Speaker B: Because my problems with the end, I think my biggest thing and I had as a kid was the ending. The ending just doesn't feel complete. Every time watching this as a kid, I would have to put in return the Jedi.
[00:51:42] Speaker A: Mmm.
[00:51:43] Speaker B: Because if not, I just don't feel great marketing. Yeah. I'm. Yeah.
[00:51:48] Speaker A: Force you to buy the second VHS.
[00:51:49] Speaker B: You gotta have it. I. Yeah. Oh, my God. And I had the. I had the special release VHS that had the documentary and rather putting the documentary at the end of the movie for some reason, they put at the beginning.
[00:51:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:51:59] Speaker B: And for those that are younger and don't understand what that's like with a VHS, you're fast forwarding. Oh, crap. Then you're rewinding because you don't want to watch the whole thing because it tells you the whole movie in the documentary. So there I did over and over again, trying to get into the right spot of return of the Jedi so I could start it.
[00:52:18] Speaker A: They did that in a. A CD that I listened to back in, like, high school where there's, like, a CD that, like, there's a. There's a sketch. You're like, Eminem used to have the sketches on his CDs, like, in between, but his own track. So you could skip the sketch if you wanted to. But this band, for some reason, did it. It was like a sketch that was related to the song before it, but they did at the beginning of the next song. And you always had to frickin listen to it at the beginning of the CD. Like, you'd have to, like, scrub, you know, try to get through the track without skipping to the next track. And, like, when you're like, why wouldn't you just make it its own track? You could just make it its own track or put at the end of the last song. So if you don't want listen, we just skip to the next song.
[00:52:52] Speaker B: And it was so you don't have those options. But it would have been nice to just, just put it after the. It would have made perfect sense. Put it after movie. I don't know why the hell it starts with. So this is my childhood, like, gripe there on that. But yeah, so that I go four and a half stars just because it doesn't feel complete.
[00:53:08] Speaker A: Okay, that's fine.
Movie 95% critic rating 97% fan rating on Rotten Tomatoes. Those are both higher than a new hope and 8.7 IMDb score, which is an 8.6 for a new hope. So it is slightly better in that sense, too. So in the sense it's not that much different. What you're saying, like, you honestly, if we, if it wasn't like 4.55, if it was like, you can do anything, you'd probably put it at 4.6, you.
[00:53:31] Speaker B: Know what I mean?
[00:53:31] Speaker A: Like that. So you're at that same thing where it's like, it's better than the first one.
[00:53:36] Speaker B: Like all of the big movie reviewers that were back at this time all like, movie.
[00:53:41] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:53:41] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Like, that was not easy to do. Like these, these people were not easily pleased by things generally. And I feel like there was always at least one of them that, like, if it didn't have an artsy background and they didn't, they didn't like it. And even those critics like this movie. So.
[00:53:55] Speaker A: Yeah, so. But I think it's the best one. Well, you know, why don't you tell us your own opinions out there, people?
I've had two opinion emails and comments this week that have been fun on the podcast, which is pretty funny. Yes.
[00:54:09] Speaker B: And I was going to ask, I was thinking it was about our Star wars review, but then that hasn't been released yet.
[00:54:13] Speaker A: So someone sent me an email saying that I don't like Stephen King because I gave sell the book, sell a two and a half out of five because I just couldn't get into it. But then I, like, sent them back a response saying, this book and this book, I give a four and a five.
[00:54:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:54:28] Speaker A: My favorite horror books of all time are misery and Salem's lot, which are both Stephen King books. Like, I do not like. I just.
[00:54:35] Speaker B: Someone asked if you were a Stephen King fan. I would say yes. If somebody was like, oh, I want to get Justin something to see, like, Stephen King. Yes.
[00:54:42] Speaker A: 50 friggin novels out there. You think that I'm not gonna, like, like them all?
[00:54:46] Speaker B: Yeah. And there's a chance that you're not gonna like something like any, any authors like that premise.
[00:54:51] Speaker A: Cell is amazing, Paul. It's post apocalyptic, zombie type type book. It's like. It's like walking dead with cell phones. And you'd think that I would like it. I just didn't like it. And that's the thing. I just can't.
[00:55:03] Speaker B: You're not gonna like every book that a writer does. You're not gonna like every comic that a comic creator creates.
[00:55:08] Speaker A: And I gave.
I gave five to four and a half stars to space Ghost number one from David Pepos over at Dynamite. I thought it was well done, well made.
[00:55:19] Speaker B: I'm excited to read that. Actually.
[00:55:21] Speaker A: I'm not a big space ghost fan, but, like, to me, it got me set up. It got me going, got me ready. It's perfect for someone who's not into it.
[00:55:27] Speaker B: And so I know the image of Space Ghost. I don't even know that much about space goes besides.
[00:55:30] Speaker A: And I got shit on because I gave it four and a half stars because I've had David on the podcast, and I'm just a fan, you know? Yes. And. And then I should get some integrity.
And so I thought to myself, okay, I'm that. But in the same sense, like, wow, am I supposed to hate it? Because, like, you know how I suppose.
[00:55:49] Speaker B: That I said that this is good. Both sides of this is good because you are getting somewhere when you actually have somebody that takes the time to be like, I don't like you, and I don't like what you've done.
[00:56:01] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:56:02] Speaker B: That's when you got enough notice, you got enough recognition. It's not just your mom watching it going like, oh, honey, that's nice that.
[00:56:07] Speaker A: You reviewed that friend.
[00:56:10] Speaker B: Somebody else out there was like, this guy sucks.
[00:56:13] Speaker A: So he's been on my podcast, I'll tell you.
[00:56:14] Speaker B: So I'm impressed.
[00:56:15] Speaker A: He's been on my podcast. So I should hate the stuff that he does because he's been on my podcast. I can't like it. Piece of a second. I like it means I'm only liking it because he's been on the podcast.
[00:56:24] Speaker B: Right? And then, and then if you didn't like it, they'd be like, tells you, man, with you, he's been on your podcast.
[00:56:28] Speaker A: So it is what it is. This person just is one of those. And it was, it was a comment. Um, and so it wasn't a social. And I didn't mean posted on social media. He said, someone found this article before. I had posted it the night before, and it posted. It was today, Monday, last night, yesterday afternoon, last night. Someone commented on it.
[00:56:47] Speaker B: I haven't read it yet.
[00:56:48] Speaker A: The social media post dropped this morning while we were recording.
[00:56:51] Speaker B: So, like, I read the. I read the. I don't know, the. The snippet about it.
[00:56:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:56:57] Speaker B: And I was like, okay, cool. But I haven't actually read the article, but the snippet, I was like, all right, you liked it. You gave it a good review. I'll check out space Ghost. Yeah, but. But somebody took the time to be like, really read that and crap on you for it. I'm impressed.
[00:57:11] Speaker A: So we're going to finish this off before we go to the next episode. We're going to actually going to record these back to back, kind of like what they do nowadays. It's. Which really is. We're going to stop and go next one really quickly. But Groot came out in 1960, Chewbacca in 1977. Do you think he got inspiration?
[00:57:27] Speaker B: No.
[00:57:27] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:57:28] Speaker B: No, I don't think so.
Groot was like a one and done issue.
[00:57:34] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't think so. Collected comics and collectibles is on Hammond street in Bangor, Maine. Galactic comics and collectibles.com, they're on Facebook, Instagram, all that stuff. Check all that stuff over there. Um, thanks, Paul. If this is, if you don't listen to the next one, we'll just, we'll just, you know. Thanks, everyone. Paul has Star wars, and we have episode four available, too. This is episode five. And episode six is also going to be next available as well as Adam and I chatted a couple of years ago about one, two, and three, as well as I've talked Han Solo and Rogue one and the Star wars holiday special. So check all of that out. The only thing we haven't done yet for movies. Yeah. Is the sequel trilogy, which, which is kind of funny, because next year, Paul, we should do the same thing and just do one episode where we talk about all three.
[00:58:17] Speaker B: Yes. I think that's probably a good one.
[00:58:19] Speaker A: Okay. Thanks, Paul.
