[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to another episode of the Capes and Tights podcast right here on capesandtights.com dot. I'm your host, Justin Soderbergh. This is horror Week. We're in horror week here at the Capes and Tights podcast, and this episode is brought to you by Galactic Comics and collectibles galacticcomicsandcollectibles.com. but this is CJ Leed returning to discuss her upcoming novel American Rapture from Toro Nightfire, which comes out October 15, 2024, at bookstores everywhere. But CJ is also the horror writer and author of critically acclaimed Mayfly and was one of our favorite books of 2023 in the upcoming American Rapture, which is hitting shelves, like I said, October 15, which has the running to be one of the best books of 2024 as well. So check this episode out, featuring author CJ Lee talking American Rapture right here on the Capes and Tights
[email protected]. dot enjoy, everyone.
Welcome back to the podcast. How are you today, CJ?
[00:01:01] Speaker B: I'm doing great, thanks. How are you?
[00:01:03] Speaker A: I'm doing wonderful. It's been you, Veron. Technically, it was actually earlier in this year, but it was at the very beginning of the year, and so we thought we'd return to discuss your latest book that's coming out here in October, American Rapture. But what's the past twelve months been like? I mean, you had your mayfly released and then the paperback came out and now american rapture is coming out. I mean, has it been a whirlwind or what's, what's it been like?
[00:01:29] Speaker B: It's been wild. I feel like my life has really changed, honestly. But it's been amazing. I feel like I've made so many friends and this community.
It's sort of astounding to me, like, how many people there are who love horror, who, I mean, it shouldn't be a surprise, but just who are so kind of like welcoming and show up for each other with the other authors, you know, like fine folks, like you, readers, all types of people. It's been a really cool experience, but yeah, it's crazy. I don't even know where I am half the time.
[00:02:08] Speaker A: Do you feel it's like, would you have a book come out? Not exactly a year apart from each other, but close to it? Do you feel like you didn't even get a break from promoting Maeve fly? Now you're into american rapture?
[00:02:22] Speaker B: Yeah, kind of. And the way it happened for me is that I actually got I sold some foreign rights after Maeve came out, or kind of like, after we sold Maeve. So there was a second tour in Europe, which was amazing. And I ate so much pasta, it was crazy. But it really. Yeah, it has. It's kind of been like one after the other. My third book, actually, we kind of pushed it back. So there's going to be a little more time in between this one and the next one.
[00:02:56] Speaker A: Was that any reasoning behind that other than the fact that you need to kind of, like, breathe, or is it just you're still ready?
[00:03:02] Speaker B: I'm just so fucking slow on this one, but I think it feels like an important book to me, hopefully. So I, like, really want to get it right.
[00:03:11] Speaker A: That makes sense. I mean, I appreciate that. We all want the best, you know, as a reader or fans or people that want your publisher, obviously yourself, you want to have the best quality product putting out there or thing out there. And so taking extra time, I think no one really going to complain about that.
[00:03:29] Speaker B: Wait, well, sorry. If anyone does.
[00:03:32] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:03:33] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:03:35] Speaker A: That's personal problems for them. That's, you know, whatever. We're the ones. We're the ones thankful enough that people are writing stuff that we like. And so I think that we'll. We're all worth it. And plus, there's so much shit out there, let's be honest. Like, there's so many talented authors right now writing such amazing horror books that you don't stand, like, sorry to say, but you're not on an island here. You're not the only. And so, like, we gotta find time to read other shit too. We can't. We can't just be like, oh, we're waiting. We're waiting for CJ's next book. We have to. It's nice to have that extra time, that leeway in there, you know? I mean, Stephen Graham Jones screwed us this year by coming up with two books in one year. So, you know, there's that.
[00:04:09] Speaker B: It's crazy. And teenage slasher was so freaking good. I cannot wait for buffalo Hunter x Hunter dying to read it.
[00:04:19] Speaker A: Mm hmm. Absolutely. I've already. I've already put my request in. I was like, okay, when those arcs come in in October, can you please send me one? Because I'm really interested in that book. But yeah, so, like, having this gap between. It is fine to me, in my opinion, but you. I just talked to Daniel Krause a couple of weeks ago because we did another beer. My brewery did another beer with him for paid the piper. And so we talked and I was like laughing because he almost, like, not forgot, but it was almost like a secondary thing. Like, oh, wait, whale falls paperback release comes out like a couple of days after pay the piper came out or a week after. And I was almost laughing because I'm like, you're so into the next book that you're even forgetting your paperback release is coming out.
[00:04:58] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's kind of how it is. And even with Maeve, like, I sold Maeve two years before it came out. So when it did come out, I had to reread it to know, like, what anybody was talking about. And even american rapture now I'm like, like, man, maybe I need to like, like brush up a little bit because it's your head just gets in this new space. It's really interesting.
[00:05:19] Speaker A: Someone's like, oh, so this happened in the book. Wait, I wrote that in the book? Really? That's what I did that.
[00:05:24] Speaker B: But you know what, that feeling, I think, is like, really? I don't know if other writers experience this, but anytime I read my work, I'm like, wait, I wrote this? That's fucking crazy. Just because you're in such a particular headspace at any given time, you know, writing a book and finishing it will kind of like, at least for me, like it has like changed me each time. You know? Like I almost like let go of stuff I'm working through and kind of leave it in the book. So sometimes I'll read it and I'll be like, oh boy, yikes, I was really going through something there.
[00:05:57] Speaker A: Exactly. Spilled it out on there. But so as you know, and as people who listen to this podcast know that I'm a huge, huge fan or am a huge fan of mayfly that followed up completely the same with american rapture. I was absolutely enamored by american rapture. So I'm so happy that you're actually taking the time out to come on here and talk because it is the perfect follow up, in my opinion, to maybe fly. You didn't even skip a beat.
It drew me in from the very beginning and kept me going even through some pretty gut wrenching and heart wrenching moments even throughout this novel. But what do you, have you been describing America after you probably did the last time you're on? Because we kind of like pitched the idea that it was coming out and you should pre order it. But like, how do you describe american rapture to people when they ask you about it?
[00:06:44] Speaker B: I'm trying to get more succinct with it, but basically I say that a very sheltered 16 year old catholic girl is coming into her sexual awakening or the beginning of it at the same time as the world or America kind of explodes with this very violent, sexually propagating virus.
It's also like, it's kind of a retelling of, like, it's all Dante's second circle of hell and all about kind of lust and sin and shame and guilt in the church and otherwise.
[00:07:22] Speaker A: So now you have all kinds of people hating on you right now because you brought in the catholic church in there and the church in there, and people are now going to hate on you for that, too, now. Okay.
[00:07:30] Speaker B: Yeah, we'll see. I mean, it's funny, I haven't. I've had hate for other things in the book, but not that so far. Weirdly. Yeah. But I just wonder if, like, these are. Those are not really the people reading my book.
[00:07:43] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:07:43] Speaker B: This will be interesting with my family, this one, I think. We'll see what happens.
[00:07:49] Speaker A: Are you okay, CJ? Is everything okay?
It is, and it's one of those things. And that's what I kind of actually, this is kind of funny because we're recording afterwards, but I recorded with Nat Cassidy yesterday, and I said to him about how, like, there's a wide variety of horror in the one genre, like, genre people call horror genre. People just associate it all as the same. Like, and there's so many variations to what horror can be. And I think that some people may pick up mayfly or american rapture and think they're getting something different than they actually end up getting. And it might be visceral to them, it might be, you know, over the top to them or whatever, but, like, sometimes you need that. And so I think that your books, like, may fly. You know, I might not. And I just ate eggs the other day, and I wasn't. I'm still eerie about eggs, and I just talked about to nat about rest stop making me not want to use public bathrooms. So there's. There's some things in books that do make it stand with you, but, I mean, escape the fact that it's the world we live in, a horrible world we live in, and live into some other horrors. Like, american rapture was. Was a fun experience. I mean, like I said, it's gut wrenching. It's gore filled. It's a new take on. I say a new take, a unique take on post apocalyptic zombie story, pandemic esque story, but it's also heartwarming. I mean, there's moments in there where you're like, there's survival and family and sacrifice. So it's an all around novel. And that's what I'm trying to get at right there, that it's not just some people will take the, the key parts of the book and say it's intense and take that and be like, oh, I don't want to read this book because of that. There's so much in this book that people should read.
[00:09:32] Speaker B: Thank you. I hope so. Like, that is what, and Maeve was less of this, but I hope moving forward, like, I want every book to have, like, the broadest, you know, kind of color palette possible. Like, I want there to always be some humor, some kind of, you know, romance element, a lot of horror, a lot of fear, but also, like, a lot of hope, you know? And I hope there's, like, a little bit of all of those things. And I just want to, like, get people's hearts racing, you know?
[00:10:04] Speaker A: Well, and I also feel like it's a unique story. I think we talk a lot with creators on this podcast that you want to do something that's not the same as everybody else because if you are, then it just gets, you know, blended in with everything else. When you're creating something that CJ Leeds books have this own little flavor to it, it does that. And I think, I mean, I honestly, Chuck Tingle's stuff has been phenomenal in that way. It has its own little flavor. And, you know, Stephen Green, all these different authors have their own little flavor to it, and, and you've created a little flavor to your books that I think people will seek out. And again, with the whole wide variety of things. And I mentioned, I've mentioned on previous podcasts about horror is terrifier. The movies out there to, like, scare you, roast you out, make you feel things you shouldn't feel and all that stuff. But there really isn't a, I say story because it is a one. It's a great book. They're great movies, in my opinion. But, like, there isn't a secondary story usually. It's just that, like, it's, there's a, there's story that goes around it to make it so they can make sense to cutting a body in half. But these kind of things have that visceral feeling but also a story to go along with it. Like, the story itself is one thing and the horrors come along with it. And I think that's what you're good at, and I think that's what people should read into these books.
[00:11:18] Speaker B: Thank you. I'm happy it's landing. Well, this book took me, like, ten years on and off to write, and it just, like, it's so wild, and I look at it, and I'm like, oh, it's still not perfect. You know, it's like. But it is. It's just.
I'm glad. It's. I'm glad. Thank you.
[00:11:36] Speaker A: Yes, you're welcome. I want to see you just be like, hey, let's just talk amazing things about your book. But let's talk. Let's go back. You said ten years. I mean, did things change? Did things get real, in a sense, when now you have a pandemic that actually hit our everyday lives? Writing a book that features a pandemic of sorts.
[00:11:56] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. When I first was working on this, it was when there was that ebola outbreak and, like, what? You know, a long time ago. And that I kind of learned a little bit from that. And then, I don't know. I think also, like, I just had to be older to write some of the, like, non horror, but kind of, like, human growth parts of this story, because I think in many ways, in your early twenties, like, you're still a teen. Like, you don't know anything. I didn't know anything, at least. So it definitely.
I'm glad I took the time with this book, but, yeah, Covid definitely informed it. The funny thing is the virus stuff and the. The, you know, religious kind of, like pushback, all of that was in the book. So it just. I got kind of lucky. And literally the only thing that we kind of took from COVID and we had the vaccine thing in there before.
I say we. You know, it's like, everybody has a lot of help with their books, with various team members.
Takes a village. But the only thing we really used was the name of it. I called it Narsen Cov three, which, you know, there have been coronaviruses before.
[00:13:10] Speaker A: Yes, yes.
[00:13:11] Speaker B: But I have doctors in my life, so luckily, I got to kind of, like, check a few little things.
[00:13:17] Speaker A: Well, it's funny how you mentioned how there has been a coronavirus and also the name of it, because I mentioned to a coworker in my office, I was like, yeah, you know, it's crazy because March is coming up here. It's the fifth anniversary of, like, we shut down our restaurant at the brewery where I work at, and I'm like, holy crap, that's been so long. It feels like it was just yesterday. But it also is insane. It's been five years and going, it's funny, actually, it's more in basically the fifth anniversary of it, in a sense, because it started overseas in 2019. He goes, it did. I go, that's why it's called Covid-19 he's like, oh, I'm like, would be called Covid 20 if we found the first case was found in 2020, most likely. But it was, it was kind of funny. He's like, oh, that makes sense.
[00:13:56] Speaker B: Yeah, it's wild. We all became virus experts and also still know nothing about virus.
[00:14:04] Speaker A: And some still deny that it even happened. We're not going to get into that on here.
But, yeah, it's also a timely book for the time of year is coming out, I think, October, where people seek out horror stories and things like that. Again, as myself and yourself and all the people that I talk to about horror. Horror is 365 days a year. There isn't just a one holiday on October 31 that you can watch these things or read these things.
But I do think that people gravitate towards this.
Was that just part of the plan, or was it just happened to be that your book's coming out in October?
[00:14:41] Speaker B: So I.
So, you know, it's election year. Yes. And I think a lot of other genres tend to pull books right before an election. And horror, you know, was kind of like, I don't know, it's spooky season. And also, as you said, like, horror readers are of, you know, every day of the year readers. And there is this, like, catharsis element to horror that's very important. I think somebody was telling me that horror and comedies tend to sell better in times of, like, political turmoil, and I thought that was pretty interesting.
But it's a bit of a gamble putting a book out, you know, a couple weeks before, you know, an election or three weeks before an election, because really, like, the news cycle. I mean, everybody's going to be thinking and talking about this other thing.
But the book turned out to be a little more political than I even intended it to be. And it is also spooky season, and the book takes place in the fall. I don't know, it just was kind of a nice moment.
But it is. It's fun. Like, it's coming out on the same day as some other authors I really, really admire. Chuck Palahnik has a new book coming out on the 15th.
I think Hailey Piper's book comes out on the 15th, which I'm really excited about.
[00:16:07] Speaker A: I'm sure there are others I mentioned that's rest up Nobel 15th as well. Yeah, but, yeah, so there's a bunch of stuff. Here's the deal. So if the world ends after the election, people will have the book already. So there's that. So you have the benefit of already selling the book to everybody. And if the world, we have something to read if the world goes kaput or in post apocalyptic world, not that this is the book you want to read in a post apocalyptic situation, but you know, there's that. But yeah, you're right. The comedy people probably used comedy to escape what the world is like and the shittiness of the world. And so I feel like the horror is the same way. If I'm going to read something horror, I'm going to read something that's fake horror, fiction horror and not the real horrors that we live. So I can see that being in that time, you know, when this world is shit outside, you want to escape into something else. You obviously don't want to read a political story, like straight up political story, probably during some political turmoil because that's too close to home. But you know, yeah, I can see that it's a pretty good thing. But yeah, and obviously there's no like publishing books is probably a nightmare trying to schedule these things anyway. So it's probably like you'll take whatever date they'd give you anyway 100%.
[00:17:17] Speaker B: There's so many factors and you know, I was originally on a book of your schedule for summer and then just kind of things change. But I'm glad. I mean now I get a summer to write and live life, but it'll be fun. I'm going to the midwest on this tour which is where the book takes place and get some fall leaves and do the whole thing.
[00:17:42] Speaker A: Yeah exactly. I mean, you know, it's a, it's a book that is, like I said, timely to this, this time of year in the sense that it's the horror story that again, you came out with mayfly in the middle of the summer. So its not like its has to be in this time of year. But I feel like theres a gravitation towards that. Plus if someone wants to buy it for someone for Christmas or they want to buy it early and those kind of things, its already out by the time a Christmas gift comes along. So I love that aspect. This time of year. I feel like its one of those great times. This is something new. Same thing with like if I want to buy someone a graphic novel and it comes out in like November, im like oh perfect, I can get it in November and give it to someone for Christmas, which is a cool, timing wise thing. But american rapture versus mave fly, for those people who loved Maeve fly is there. How would you. Would you say it's different to people? Would you say it's the same? Would you. Would readers cross over, other than the people who are just fans of you?
[00:18:32] Speaker B: It's. I would say it's very different.
Maeve was a very, like, self assured, or I guess I should say, like she is, that Maeve's story is not overdeveloped, but she's a very, like, self assured, confident, kind of disruptive force, and on the. And very, like, sexually confident and aware of things. And then on the flip side, Sophie, my protagonist in american rapture, is, like, the most naive, the most sheltered, and is.
I like the idea that potentially she could one day become somebody like Maeve, maybe. I don't know. But, you know, at least she is in the book, becoming somebody much stronger. And it's that moment in life.
It's definitely not like a YA book. Like, it's, you know, it's an adult book, but it's about kind of, like, discovering yourself and your place in the world and also just, like, getting rid of anything that doesn't serve you. So I would say vibe is different. However, like, to your point earlier, I hope that the sort of, like, me thing comes through. Like, there's a lot of, like, neon. There's a lot of roadside America. There's a lot of, like, place is very prominent. Like, every book I write, I want place to figure very kind of centrally. So La was Maeve. Wisconsin is american rapture. My third book's the Colorado book. So we're really. I mean, I'm kind of trying to, like, move across this country that I actually really love and feel like there's a lot to celebrate here in terms of those things.
[00:20:19] Speaker A: You just plan your book tours around these things. You're gonna place a book in, like, Paris. So you can just go to Paris and do a book tour. You're gonna place your books all these places just so you like, your publisher. You're like, hey, I. The book space there. I probably should go there.
[00:20:31] Speaker B: We should probably laugh when you see the locations of my next, like, whenever that comes out. Like, my next four books, none of it. They're certainly not Paris, some random town.
[00:20:42] Speaker A: In North Dakota that you don't yet.
So. So you mentioned the neon. Like, this is the book cover, which I always appreciate. Obviously, timing matters on these things because obviously, an arc or a galley copy of things don't always come the covers are always done when they come out. It was literally, like three weeks prior, I had gotten the arc for pay the piper, and then they announced the COVID and then they had arcs come out with the COVID on it. But, like, the actual, this is a stunning cover, and it does scream CJ lead on this.
And so. Yeah. Who was the artist?
[00:21:16] Speaker B: Do you remember Carly? Janine Mazur. And Carly did the maeve cover as well. And these are actually paintings, which is mind blowing to me.
I guess these paintings still exist somewhere.
[00:21:33] Speaker A: That's awesome.
[00:21:35] Speaker B: Yeah. And then we just really knew that we wanted it to feel like I kept saying neon Jesus. Like, you just get that neon Jesus feeling here. And I think they just knocked it out of the park.
[00:21:48] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And I think it screams as I'm a designer and creative director by trade, so, like, I'm gonna. It sounds like I'm touting myself, but I do think people do judge books by their cover, and I hate to say that, because the inside is so much more important than the COVID but let's be honest, there's so many books at the store when you go to buy it, and you're looking at Barnes and noble shelves that the most attractive books are going to pull you in first. And so having a really good cover is well worth it. And I think that this cover, as well as the mayfly cover, which, I don't know, you can't see, but it's back there somewhere.
[00:22:23] Speaker B: And I really should shout out nightfire on this, and specifically Christine at nightfire, who kind of, like, comes up with the COVID concepts because really, like, I didn't even know this artist before, and it's amazing. Like, they just have such a good sense for what's going to work. And it's. It's crazy how at every turn, you're like, wow. Yeah. Everybody is really good at their individual jobs, and I'm so glad that they do them because they're so much better than me at these things.
[00:22:51] Speaker A: Well, that's what you said we, when you said to making the book. And it's like, it's true. It's. Yes, you are writing the words that are in the inside, but you do have editors, you do have people. The publisher. You have designers. There is a. There's a team that goes into it to make it. I mean, in the end, your name is on the book, and the success and the failure of it does come back mostly on you. But there's a whole team that, that does work on the book together so that you're right on that. And Tor's Nightfire has been like, I don't, like, swing and hit home runs. Every single book that's come out recently, and I. It's just phenomenal to see that.
[00:23:23] Speaker B: It's crazy. And they were the first horror only imprint at a big five publisher, and now I think there's another coming, and I don't know, I think, like, I feel so lucky. They're a pretty, like, visionary team and been kind of a dream to work with. It took me so fucking long to, like, get anybody to say yes to anything I wrote that. I don't know, I'm like, I would do it all over again just to, like, land where I did. I think I really lucked out. Even, like, you talking about Nat, like, the other writers too. It's just, it's a very cool community.
[00:23:59] Speaker A: It's phenomenal. And I, like, literally, it's so funny too. I don't know if he's ever noticed. Like, you see a movie and you're like, oh, that movie looks so good. I wonder why it's so good. And then you find out the director is a director you've liked of every movie. You're like, that makes sense. Like, it connects. It's the same thing. I, like, read a book, and I'll be like, who published this book? And I'm like, oh, tor nightfire. That makes sense. Oh, theme that, that checks out. You know, and if honestly, I was just talking to Nas, that shortwave is the same way now with their novellas, I feel like the same way. If I didn't know it was a shortwave novella, I'd also be like, oh, that checks out. Like, this makes sense. And, you know, rest stop was one of those and, and so on. But, yeah, it's a, it's a book that, that again, like I said, it's different than mayfly, but still feels like you, like, it feels like you wrote it. And that's obviously important because people do tend to follow publishers we know. I live in the town that Stephen King lives in Orlando lives in, and he's made an entire career of people seeing the name Stephen King on his books and been purchased by, I mean, they're good, but I'm just saying, like, let's be honest, people buy anything. This is his name on it at this point.
[00:25:01] Speaker B: Oh, are you kidding? Like, I'm, like, lining up at the freaking bookstore anytime he's got a release.
[00:25:08] Speaker A: Yeah, still, that's why I, like, would love for him to just straight up write a really, really, really cheesy romance. Just to see what happens. Just throw one out there that's the most, like, Emily Henry. Like, yes, he would be.
[00:25:20] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, the fact, too, that I think some of his more recent books actually are some of my favorites, which is freaking crazy. Like, this dude just doesn't let up. It's I. Man, what a gift to the world he is.
[00:25:38] Speaker A: Yeah, it is. And actually, this week that we're in, that we're releasing, which is October, the week of October or September 30 through October, whatever fifth that weekend is the local comic convention here in Bangor, Maine. And we're doing. We're celebrating the 35th anniversary of the pet sematary movie. And so they have like the truck or like the tractor trailer truck that runs over Gage and like, gage is gonna be there. The kid is like now, like, wow. And he's gonna be there. Which I didn't know he was actually in the spawn movie that came out years and years and years ago, but. And so they have like five or six people that were in the movie are gonna be here doing like a reunion of sorts in the town that, you know, Stephen King wrote the book, I guess, in that sense. So, yeah, it's kind of crazy how long of a career. But yeah, just have someone be that be like 50 books in or so, and you'd be like, oh, we're gonna release some still some bangers out there. I mean, you like it? You like it. Darker was an insanely good anthology book this year, or short story book, I should say this year that I put in my top ten probably list of best horror books of the year. And it's like a bunch of short stories that it's insane.
[00:26:44] Speaker B: The institute, I mean, like, the outsider is for nuts.
[00:26:49] Speaker A: It's nuts. So, so one of these days it's gonna be like, Stephen King, CJ Lee, they're on the same level.
[00:26:54] Speaker B: We'll see.
I'll take it.
[00:26:58] Speaker A: No, but it's true. And I feel like there is that stamp. And I talked to, you know, I brought up enough of us on this podcast with Daniel Krause. I talked to him. He writes so many different genres of books, Sci-Fi he has a Sci-Fi book coming out. He has a World War Two book and horror and all that stuff. And every single one of them still has that thumbprint that was written by that person. I think that's a big thing. And I think that same thing. This is different than mayfly, like you mentioned, but it still has that little flavor of CJ lean on it, which is phenomenal. And so anybody who did like mayfly, I feel like, should like this book in my opinion.
[00:27:31] Speaker B: Thank you. I hope so. I hope so.
And I like the idea of, like, varying the protagonist, too. Like my, my third book's dual pov, but, like, really the main character is the man. You know, like, I'm, I like, I don't want to just do the same thing over and over again.
[00:27:49] Speaker A: Yeah, you get bored. And I think that there's some people who like that when they're, you know, some authors write seven books in a series and they're happy with it. But sometimes you need to have that, that change of character to keep your mind fresh. And I think that's cool in the same sense, but not that I'm saying I wouldn't take another mayflight book, but I do like the new stuff.
[00:28:07] Speaker B: Theoretically, they're coming, so, but, yeah, so.
[00:28:12] Speaker A: The, the book itself hits October 15 at your bookstores everywhere and people can pre order it. American rapture. The, you have a couple more weeks left before this is coming out. What, what are you, are you nervous? Are you excited? What, what's your next stage in having people want to get this in their hands? Like, is it, is it just let it roll and you can't help it. It's just what it is. What it is.
[00:28:33] Speaker B: Now, you know what? Last year before Maeve came out, you know, it was my first book. I was, I couldn't eat. I was like, sick with nerves. And I don't know if this is like, if people know this about me or not, but I get very anxious to, like, speak in front of people so often.
And I try to be really professional, but, like, you know, sometimes I'll, like, take a little whiskey shot or something before, you know, we're writers. It's accessible, I think, before any kind of public speaking thing. But I'm not really nervous this time, I think. But it's more like I'm such a merch hoe and I've commissioned a lot of merch for this tour that I'm really excited about. So if anybody listening to this wants to come to any of my events, we're going to have some event exclusive merch, which I'm really stoked on. We're also throwing a huge party. Speaking of other cool authors and books coming out in the fall, Rachel Harrison, Clay McLeod Chapman and I have a big New York, like, kind of book Halloween party on October 30 that we've been, like, deep in the planning of. So it's really, like, it's more like logistics at this point. Like, I'm deeply in the pre tour logistics, but going on instagram every day and seeing folks reading the book and posting about the book, it's just, it's very cool. And your skin gets thicker. You know, like, bad Goodreads reviews or bad. You know, like, everybody wants to tag you in their one star reviews.
[00:30:14] Speaker A: I don't understand that. I don't understand that.
What do they expect? Like, I know I do tend to tag people when we post things, you know, about the authors. Four star writing, five stars. You know, honestly, if it's below five, there's no reason to. Because, first of all, I think three star ratings are more like, what's the point? Because it's just in the middle. But, yeah, anything below that, I'm like, what are you trying to make them, these people upset with you? Like, I don't. Like, they're just gonna ignore it anyway, first of all. But, like, or maybe not. Maybe it's gonna fester with you, but I'm just saying, like, I just don't get the point of it. Like, if you want to tell people it's a two star rating, put it on your reads or Amazon, whatever you want to do, put it out there. You have the right. It's your free speech. But, like, why tag the person in it? I don't like, I won't even tag the publisher in a book that I don't like. Like, it's not even, like, it's like, why tag the person and take them down a notch? I don't know. I, you know, I got someone who villainized me via email because I didn't like a Stephen King book. We talking about Stephen King? That I was, I wasn't a fan of the cell. Like, I just wasn't a fan of it. Oh, and I'm a fan of a lot of other books. One of my favorite books of all time is Salem's lot. And so, like, I am a fan of Stephen King, but this one, I have the right to not like one of his books. But I also didn't tag Stephen King in the book. I didn't like tag.
[00:31:27] Speaker B: Yeah. I think it's honestly, like, people just don't really think about, like, the writers or creators being also people, you know, this nebulous idea. But it gets to a point where it's funny and you just sort of, like, laugh it off and.
[00:31:44] Speaker A: It'S not the same. Versus, like, you rating a restaurant a one star, like, one star rating at a restaurant. Hope they change things. Like, hope they, like, oh, the server was awful. Okay, cool. Maybe they'll talk to that server, so on and so forth. But, like, american rapture is done. Like, you cannot do anything to american rapture right now to change it. It is. It's. I guarantee it was probably already printed, right? It's probably already at the publisher's warehouse.
[00:32:06] Speaker B: I think. It is. It's probably being printed right now. Additionally. It's like, you write a book, a book can take five months to write. It can also take ten years to write. And then in a best case scenario, somebody reads it in a day or two. Best case scenario, they consume this work that took maybe a decade of your life in a day or two. And then, you know, like, stick a little review on it, and that's cool. Like, that's what we want. But it is. It's like, the funniest thing. It's like, yeah, I mean, that's somebody's life's work. I feel very like anytime somebody online says anything negative about a galley of a book that hasn't, like, a debut author, if there's a debut author and they've got a galley circulating, anybody who trashes it online, I then feel like I want to just, like, champion that book forever. Because it's like, you gotta at least let people get the book out in the world. Like, make their name, you know?
So then I'm always trying to be like, hey, everybody, read this book. It's awesome.
[00:33:09] Speaker A: And it's like, we all have our own. Like, you know, I'm a big horror fan, so obviously I'm gonna write a horror book. Likely higher than I am gonna be a romance book. Because once I read the romance book, it's like, it doesn't hit the same feelings to me. Like, my wife is a huge romance reader, so she reads romance novels all the time. If I handed her this book, I mean, she would. I bet she'd dnf it. I don't even think she'd finish american rapture, but that's because it's not her style of book. And so a lot of these. Some of these people out there who get these galleys that sent to them and they read them, they're like, oh, this is awful. It's like, it's the same thing in the beer industry where someone's like, oh, this IPA was disgusting. I'm like, do you like ipas? No. Then why do you think that? It's like, obviously it's disgusting. Like, it doesn't taste good to you. But, yeah, tagging one star review is, oh, that's a fun thing. But, yeah, and that's, I mean, but you also shouldn't feel pressured to get a galley and write a good review. But there's also ability of, like, you not saying anything.
[00:33:57] Speaker B: You could just not say, yeah. And I would say in general, like, if somebody wants to trash my galley, like, sure. Like, I already have a book out. It's just, when it's a debut, yes. It's like, give these folks a shot, you know, it's like their life's work. But I'll tell you what, I, to that point about romance, a big complaint I get from readers sometimes is that there's too much romance plotline in my books. And I gotta tell you, like, that's really not stopping. Like, I love, yeah, I freaking love a romance storyline. I like sex in books, and this book had less sex in it, but was more, like, about sex kind of.
But it's like, I don't know. I don't know why it's not in most books. It's a big part of life, you know, just like death is or things that we're afraid of. You know, it's like, it's pretty, pretty common. It is.
[00:34:51] Speaker A: I mean, I mentioned my buddy runs the comic book store that's on. He actually reviewed Swamp thing with us on it for this week that, like, some of the tropes that are in horror movies, there's always going to be a pair of boobs in a horror movie because it's just part of it. So that's just part of, like, you know, but, yeah, you're right. The romance part of things, it furthers the story a little bit, too. But, but I'm liking how you said the, the real quickly as we finish up here, but the sex part of it because, yes, there was more sex itself in mayfly and some, some sexes in this book, but, like, it's more like, I kind of related it to, like, walking dead to people is always, you're like, I don't like zombies. And it's like, well, the zombies are a plot device to move the story along, that it's really about the people. And I think that's the same thing here. Like, the sex is there to move the story along because you need to have that plot point and that narrative. But, like, the other stuff that goes around is really the important stuff. Like, the sex isn't the important stuff in this book.
[00:35:46] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think that's really what I was trying to say is, like, we put young women in this impossible position where we say, like, your entire value and worth is your, like, sexual self, and at the same time, it's your greatest sin and shame. And I think, like, this book was my main character, you know, really kind of, like, grappling with that and ultimately just deciding, you know, how she wants to live her life with it. And that's kind of like a decision we kind of all have to make in our puritanical, capitalist country.
[00:36:20] Speaker A: And I will say I've read a bunch of books, and there's a bunch of books out there by male authors that actually have pretty good female protagonists, which are, you know, out there.
[00:36:28] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:36:30] Speaker A: But I also can say that I'm not a 16 year old girl. I don't know if you knew that or not, but I'm not. And I still was able to relate in a way that I wasn't a, I was surprised that I was able to relate to, to the main character. Like, you're expecting that, you know, as I read, I'm like, oh, I read the synopsis and you're like, you know, 16 year old, like, oh, how am I going to relate? But you were able to relate to someone who's a 38 year old, you know, straight male. Like, I was able to relate to that way. I mean, I did grow up in the church, so there's probably, that probably has something to do with it. But, like, yeah, my dad's a pastor, so I probably won't be sharing this book with him.
[00:37:06] Speaker B: Why not? I mean, it's, it's really, he would read it.
[00:37:10] Speaker A: He would read it and he wouldn't judge or anything like that. He'd read it. But I'm just saying, like, he's probably not going to be, like, going to his church on Sunday morning and be like, you should read this book.
I mean, that would be a poll quote for the, for the paperback release. If you get a pastor to write a poll quote for the back of the paperback release. There you go. No, but, yeah, I was able to relate to her. I mean, that's, it's, it's so glad.
[00:37:29] Speaker B: And I hope that, like, I don't mean to say either that this experience is like, like, you know, solely that of, like, women. It's like all types of folks end up, you know, kind of like, being very heavily affected by any kind of, like, repressive, weird purity culture, you know, if they have experience with it. So I think it's, it's interesting how it affects different people too. Or maybe it just doesn't. Like some people just are fine with it. But I wasn't. So I took ten years to write.
[00:38:00] Speaker A: This book and it's finally coming out. You got two weeks after this episode released. You got two weeks till it hits shelves at bookstores everywhere. And like I will always say on this podcast is try your local bookstore first. But if you can't just buy the book, I know there's corporations, evil corporations out there, but there's buy the book like this. Doesn't the difference between, I'm sure you'd be happier someone buying it on, you know, Amazon than not buying at all, for sure.
[00:38:25] Speaker B: And I will also say, because this is a book like heavily about librarians and the importance of them, like your local libraries, like even if you can't buy it and just want to read it, like, I'm stoked on that. And bookshop.org is also like freaking phenomenal. And Libro FM, the world is making things easy for us in a lot of ways.
[00:38:46] Speaker A: Libro FM is a, I'm a big proponent for Libreo FM because not outside of the fact that they support local bookstores, but you also own the content. So when you buy.
[00:38:55] Speaker B: Is that true?
[00:38:56] Speaker A: Yes, it's DRM free. It's yours. So if all of a sudden I know where Libre FM's like, we can't do this anymore, they should close up shop or for some reason tornight fires, like we're not going to put our books on there anymore or whatever it may be, you can download that file and it's on your computer and it belongs to you, which is a huge thing because if anybody doesn't know anything about streaming or anything like that, like you don't own the content that you buy on these things. If you buy like a movie on Apple and Apple loses lions gates, you know, stuff, then you don't get to watch that movie anymore. Anymore. So that's a big thing to me. I've had it happen. Even the free books people get on audible like, oh, look at this is X Files book I wanted to read. It's free and I put it in my thing and then it's no longer free anymore. I wasn't able to listen to it anymore. And so that's why Libre FM to me is huge because of that. So download if you want to listen to the audiobook, which I am a big fan of audiobooks, check out Libreo FM because they will support your local bookstore, but also you get to own it.
[00:39:49] Speaker B: Oh yeah, I. But Sidebar my audiobook reader, Monica plant, freaking killed it. So I'm very excited for people to listen.
[00:39:58] Speaker A: See, I don't have the patience. I love audiobooks, but I don't have a lot of times the patient to wait because audiobooks are usually out like a month or so before for advanced copies. And so I'm like, oh, God. So I read the novel, but like, then I think what I need to do is just go back and read it again on audiobook because I think, yes, there is something to say about great narrators as well. So.
Ah, October 15, CJ. It's right around the corner.
[00:40:21] Speaker B: Big day. Everybody got the good releases. I'm so excited to celebrate all my friends, too. And it's gonna be a good day.
[00:40:29] Speaker A: In pre order now, people. This comes out September. This episode drops September 30. So, like, pre order now because you can still pre order and tell your local bookstores you want it. Whatever. I hate to, I love to reiterate a lot of places that you pre order online, too, they don't actually charge you till they ship it. So even if you don't have the funds in your account, you can still preorder it now and then they'll charge you for it when they ship the item out. So, like, just pre order it, people. I highly recommend it.
[00:40:53] Speaker B: Oh, thank you. And also, I'll say I posted this on Instagram, but in order to kind of, like, celebrate librarians and it's banned books week right now, I decided that any hard cover, like pre ordered or sold within the first week of pubs. So up until like October 22, for every one of those somebody buys, I'll donate a dollar to unite against book bands. So that's my one little way to try and celebrate the libraries and everything they give to us, because they're super important.
[00:41:30] Speaker A: Absolutely. I love that. I love that. And also putting something around it and getting people to buy it in the first week, I think that's a huge. I think some people are like, I'll get it when I get it. It's a huge thing, honestly, for an author to get pre orders because it tells the publishers that, you know, the book's going to be popular, and then the first week sales does a lot towards your charts and all that makes people legitimize you as an author. And I think that's a, that's a good thing. And then adding this bonus to it is pretty cool, in my opinion. So I'm happy about that. So american rapture October 15. Happy horror season. CJ right.
[00:42:01] Speaker B: Thank you. You too. We are in it.
[00:42:04] Speaker A: It's. It's right here. And so I'm glad you were able to take time out of your day to stop on here early on the west coast there to talk to us. You know, I say early. I've been up since like 430 because I have a three year old and a six month old. But that's so, so it's a bit of long day already for me.
But I'm glad you were able to take time out and come on here and we'll get you back on the next time you have a book that comes out. But, you know, happy haunting and horrors and all that stuff. I'm hoping that this book release is phenomenal for you. And you see, you have some amazing tour dates with some amazing co guests on those tour dates that are phenomenal too. You mentioned one, but like there's, you know.
[00:42:39] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. And obviously chuck tango. Oh, yeah. We are going to light up Burbank like a fucking disco ball. There are going to be so many sequins between the two of us. Like, folks should just show up for the fashion show.
[00:42:53] Speaker A: That to me is like, get on a plane, fly from the east coast to Burbank worthy kind of thing. If I had the funds or I didn't have a wife and two kids at home, I might get on a plane to be flying to Burbank to see that. Because you know what I will say, barrier Gaze is one of my favorite books that came out this year as well. So I can tell you that it's phenomenal.
[00:43:11] Speaker B: It's like one of my favorite books of all time. Now, speaking of X Files. Oh, man, it's so good.
[00:43:19] Speaker A: So buy that now and go and read it and then go buy or then pre order while you're there, pre order the October 50 release of American Rapture. And why don't you throw in their rest stop for you and all the other books that are coming out on that day.
[00:43:31] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:43:32] Speaker A: Just take a small loan out. Your guys are fine.
I really appreciate. Again, like I said, I really appreciate you coming on and best of luck to the release. And we're excited for everybody to read it. Thanks.
[00:43:42] Speaker B: Thank you so much.
