Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to another episode of the Capes and Tights podcast right here oncapes&tights.com I'm your host, Justin Soderbergh. This episode is once again brought to you by our friends over at Galactic Comics and Collectibles at galactic comics and collectibles.com and on 547 Hammond street in Bangor, Maine. If you're in the Bangor main area, this episode is Joshua Hull, screenwriter and author of Things that Are Horrifying. Joshua is the co screenwriter of the film Glorious that hit out in 2022, as well as the author of Mouth and underexposed, the 50th greatest 50 greatest movies never made. His latest book comes out August 26, 2025 from Clash Books called 8114. That is a phenomenally horrific and amazing novel coming out from Josh. So check that out. But before you do, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Blue sky, threads, all those things. Follow us on all those things, rate reviews, subscribe over at YouTube, Apple, Spotify, wherever you find your podcasts. And then you can go to our website capesandtights.com for so much more information, reviews and beyond. This episode is Joshua Hull, screenwriter and author, author of the new book 8114, hitting shelves in August 2025 from Clash Books. Enjoy everyone.
Welcome to the podcast. How are you?
[00:01:25] Speaker B: I'm great. Thanks for having me. How are you?
[00:01:27] Speaker A: So I'm doing wonderful. It's warming up here. I live in Maine and it was like negative 17 getting up earlier in the week last week and it was like 17 degrees out this morning. So I was like, oh, it's a freaking heat wave right now.
[00:01:41] Speaker B: Heat wave. Yeah, yeah, same, same thing here in, in Indy is where it was like negative two, negative one, and now it's like, yeah, I think it's like 20 degrees outside or you know, out there in flip flops. Just doing my thing.
[00:01:53] Speaker A: I was laughing. My grandfather used to send me mess Facebook messenger, which obviously says something too of how, yeah, yeah, Facebook has been taken over by older people. But the, the, he used to send me messages randomly. Just be like, hey, he lives in Florida. He'd be like, it's 80 degrees out and sunny. And I'd be like, yeah, it's cool. It's snowing here. And now I can send him messages and be like, it's snowing there, man.
[00:02:15] Speaker B: That's pretty funny.
[00:02:18] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a, it's crazy world we live in right now. But yeah, thanks for doing this and take your time out.
[00:02:22] Speaker B: Of course, of course. Thanks for Having me.
[00:02:24] Speaker A: You're, you were a fan of horror in general, I'm guessing, I mean, I'm guessing you don't just write about it a little bit.
[00:02:31] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:02:35] Speaker A: How did you get into it in the first place? I mean, were you a young lad when that happened or.
[00:02:38] Speaker B: Yeah, I was a young lad. My, my mom introduced me pretty early on. I, I think Jaws was the first horror movie I saw. I think I was maybe three or four. You know, I think it was one of those just sitting in front of the TV and she had made dinner or something and, and laid dinner out for us on like TV trays and then put Jaws on. And I just, my mind was blown. I was like, what is this, what is this thing? And then, and then, and then it kind of just kept going from there, you know, so, and then when I was like 7ish, she introduced me to Halloween, which kind of just changed my, you know, Jaws was like impactful, but you know, when you're seven watching Michael Myers, it kind of just blew the entire world open for me. And so it just went up from there, you know, staying with it.
[00:03:26] Speaker A: It's crazy. Jaws turns 50 this summer.
[00:03:29] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:03:30] Speaker A: That's absolutely insane to me. Like, it's just like thinking about how, how long it's been since that movies came out and still every time I watch that movie, I'm still, it's still.
[00:03:38] Speaker B: Like, it's amazing and it's so impactful and it's so, you know, it's, that's the thing about that movie is. And you know, same thing with Halloween. Same thing with a lot. Mostly though, a lot of Spielberg's work is how it still holds up like, you know, to the like even thinking about like Duel and how Duel still holds up to this. And it's just like that's how you know, that guy was just the God of cinema essentially. You know, to be able to do, to still have this impact today, making the films he does today, but still have like a 50 year impact on filmmakers of all kinds.
[00:04:12] Speaker A: I, I got into horror a little later than I think that most people that are in the, into the genre in general. You know, obviously everybody comes into things differently at different times in their lives, but I just never really was into like, oh, I don't want to be scared. I don't want the lights to be on. Like it's this whole thing. And so I got into it. I'm 38. I probably got into about five years ago. Really like deep. Oh, wow. Yeah. Late and late in life and I was able to, like, experience all these things. I mean, Jaws I saw years ago because sure, me, Jaws was always like this weird, like it's a horror movie, but to me, it was more a vacation gone wrong or something along those lines. It wasn't this, like, Halloween, but I got to experience Halloween, you know, all those movies for the first time as an adult. And it was really kind of cool.
[00:04:53] Speaker B: See, I'm super jealous of that because I, I, I love the way I grew up. I love that I got to experience all these things as they were coming out. Like, I love being able to talk about how I was there for opening night of Scream when it was, you know, like, I, I love all that stuff. But, you know, my daughter is 19, and so I've been able to, like, share all these movies with her as well for the first time. And seeing that excitement, seeing how much she's become a fan, and I'm just like, I am so jealous of her when she gets to experience some of these movies for the first time. Because I want to, I want to feel that high, that excitement again. I still get them, you know, with. Obviously, I'm a die hard. I love all the movies, but I'm just like, there's nothing like experiencing some of these movies for the first time. That feeling and that, just that jaw dropping, like, what is this? You know?
[00:05:39] Speaker A: Oh, that is. Until they're like, this. Isn't that cool? We're like, God damn. Yeah, yeah.
[00:05:42] Speaker B: They're like that, that. You got taste. You got really bad taste.
[00:05:45] Speaker A: Like, hey, hey, look at the special effects.
[00:05:49] Speaker B: Right? Yeah, it was the 90s.
[00:05:52] Speaker A: That's, you know, I guess what's worse when, when, when your daughter sees, like, glorious. Is that worse if she didn't like that, that it would be then a movie that you like growing up.
[00:06:01] Speaker B: Yeah, Yeah. I, you know, I don't know. I, I didn't know how, you know, obviously Gloria is a, is a wild one to just drop on the family, right? To be like, okay, you know, and, and so what. So she was, you know, she was still in high school when that movie came out. And so I think it was for her, it was exciting because it was, it was actually, you know, it was a really big deal for me, but it was also just a really big, that movie did really well. And, and so it was exciting to see. But when, when she, you know, so she went out to the LA premiere with me when it premiered out there, and so she got experience all. It was a lot of Fun. But, you know, so she's like, oh, this is awesome. This is awesome. But then she'll go to school and she'll be like, my dad's moving. You know, like, she had to tell her teachers, I. I'm going to LA for my dad's premiere. And they're like, what. What is the movie about? She's like, we're not gonna talk about it.
[00:06:55] Speaker A: Maybe I should watch it, you know, figure it out. Like, yeah, yeah.
[00:06:59] Speaker B: It's a whole thing, you know? You know what I'm talking about. So. Yeah.
[00:07:02] Speaker A: Well, I'll tell you right now if, If. If you didn't ruin. Ruin Rest Stop Bathrooms for me with that movie. It definitely pushed me over the edge with Nat Cassidy's Rest Stop. So, like, like, just using a public bathroom is just not on the. On the docket anymore for a lot of people.
[00:07:18] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I. You know, I. I feel like at some point these. These events that are happening. Yeah.
[00:07:26] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:07:26] Speaker B: Matt and I find ourselves on. We're gonna. We're gonna end up being on a panel about bathrooms one day. I just, I. You know, it's just in the future. Yeah.
[00:07:34] Speaker A: I just feel like a picture, like if you're like San Diego Comic Con or something like that, and you guys have, like a set and the bathroom's just like subway tile. Like, it's just like the whole setup and everything like that. You can. You can take photo opportunities with you guys, like, giving people swirlies or something like that. Like that. I think it's the thing. I think we should do this.
Is that a new sub genre bathroom?
[00:07:54] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I think we've. I think we've. I think we've started something. Yeah, it's. I wonder if it's the same thing with Nat, though, where it's still kind of like, that's the most text messages I'll get from random people where they'll be like, had to go to the bathroom, saw a rest stop, didn't want to stop. Thank you. And I'll be like, what? Don't blame me for you.
[00:08:11] Speaker A: Your parents are pissing in front of someone else. Or my pants. Than go into the public bathroom now.
[00:08:17] Speaker B: Yeah. Take your chance with fate in the glory hole. Don't get mad at me.
[00:08:21] Speaker A: Like, just, like, sponsored, like, glorious diapers so people don't have to actually go into the bathroom.
[00:08:28] Speaker B: I'm just going to do, like, a photography nonfiction book where it's just me traveling around the country, putting Josh hall approves of this. This rest, like, this is, this is, this is safe.
[00:08:38] Speaker A: Safe.
[00:08:39] Speaker B: There was a Claire for the safe zone.
[00:08:40] Speaker A: Yeah, you laugh about that. But. So I was married and divorced and my ex wife, when we got engaged, it was in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. This is years ago. And I downloaded an app that was sponsored by Charmin that was called Sit or Squat. And the app itself was to tell you they rated public bathrooms. It told you which ones are there, which ones are open. So like if Starbucks has one that has like their hours, I told you like if you needed to purchase something to use it, and so on and so forth. I thought this thing was phenomenal somehow. It doesn't exist anymore. The servers are offline or whatever. But I'm like, this is the thing that people need to know and now we need to do it now it needs to be sponsored by you and at.
[00:09:19] Speaker B: Yeah, we need to be like Shutter does this whole like it's a map on shutters website. Yeah. Yes. I love it.
[00:09:26] Speaker A: I think it was, it was amazing. But yeah, no, no, I feel like just like killer vhs, which. You have one coming up. You're going to have this bathroom horror subgenre that's like going to be a thing. No, I just wanted to. I was thinking myself, like every time when I read Rest Stop I was like, oh my God, this is like ruining it even further than what Glorious did.
[00:09:45] Speaker B: But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:09:47] Speaker A: It is what it is. And you know what? You're ruining going into houses now too. With 8, 14, 81, 14 too. But no, we'll get into that in a second. But so you. So you're a horror fan. You love horror. You, you love things obviously like film in general and so on and so forth. What transitioned that into writing books about.
[00:10:04] Speaker B: Horror or you know.
Yeah, I, it was never, it was never part of the plan really. I, I never, you know, when I was, when I was in elementary school and, and they. So I don't know if you.
We. We would have these initiatives where they would encourage writing for, for like, they would. These little books that you could write in. I don't know if ever all these other schools had them, but they were real big here in Indiana because Jim Davis was from Muncie, which is about 20 minutes away from me. And so, you know, Garfield creator. Yeah, they really encourage writing as a youth and so I would just do those little things. I was a big goosebumps. So I try to write my own little goosebumps stories, but that was kind of it. I was never going to be like riding that. I was Like, I never want to. I love Stephen King, all that stuff. But I was never like, I'm going to be an author one day. It was always film. It was always just filmmaking. And then 2019 or 2018, the opportunity to write a book happened. Just kind of by luck, by accident. I don't even know how to say it.
And that was a nonfiction book called Underexposed, which was about movies that gave me an experience writing books. And I was like, oh, this is really fun.
But the thing about nonfiction is you have to be truth. You have to tell the truth. And like, you know, and I was like, I really want to write a book now that, like, kind of connects with my screenwriting and filmmaking. And so I. That's really kind of when I started flirting with the idea of, oh, this would be a nice way to connect my work and segue into some narrative fiction and things like that. And so that's really. Once Glorious came out, after that, that few months after Glorious was really when the opportunity happen. And I was like, okay, I can actually now I can write some books and do both. Do screenwriting and writing books. So that's where it really kind of came by chance, by accident. And now. And now I, you know, I think I had to stick around for a little while.
[00:12:16] Speaker A: Yeah, I think so. I mean, I would like more. You know, you've already got some. You know, you got one coming out this summer with 81 14. Then you also have, you know, the new killer VHS coming out after that. But is it. I don't know. I'm trying to think about, like, I know a lot of authors or. Sorry, yeah. Authors that eventually screen. Were screenwriters as well.
Is it common for someone. I don't know, and you might not be able to answer this, but, like, is it common for someone to be a screenwriter and then decide they want to write books as well? I mean, it seems like a. I know. They're two different ways. And it. In that writing is not writing. It's the same thing. It's like if you decided to conquer, like, comic books or graphic novels, it's a completely different way of writing.
[00:12:51] Speaker B: Right, right.
[00:12:52] Speaker A: Unless you write a book that's. I mean, there's books that are written like screenplays, so it is.
[00:12:56] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, sure.
[00:12:57] Speaker A: That's pretty easy. But what. What is it harder, easier? Is it. I mean, what's the difference in your mind between screenwriting and writing books?
[00:13:07] Speaker B: This is funny because I do. People will kill me because I think. I think screenwriting is so easy. And I've said, and I get, and I say this.
[00:13:17] Speaker A: If you, if you're good at it and you like it, it's probably easy, you know, I mean like jury's out.
[00:13:22] Speaker B: Of if I'm good at it or not.
[00:13:23] Speaker A: But, you know, that's all that matters at this podcast right here. I think you're good at it.
[00:13:28] Speaker B: Hell yeah. Hell yeah. I, so I, you know, but I've been doing it for so long.
[00:13:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:34] Speaker B: That I feel like if, if you've been screen. Right. I've been screenwriting for, since middle school. Obviously, you know, there's a, there's a difference in middle school screenwriting and professional screenwriting, obviously. But I've been studying the format, I've been reading the format since I was in middle school because that's what I always wanted to be. And so at this point in my life as a 40 something year old man, if I'm not good at screenwriting or think that screenwriting is relatively like easy, then I, then I really chose the wrong path.
And so I can say that I think screenwriting is easier because I've been doing it so much and I've written so many screenplays. But when I started writing Mouth as a, my first venture into, you know, fiction, I, I was like, this is, this is hard. I don't know what I'm doing, you know, and, and I technically started writing 8114 before mouth, but it was just, they were hard. It was hard because it's, you know, they're so different formats, so different styles, so different. The voices are different, everything's different about these, these forms. And so it was really hard going into Mouth and doing that book and getting those notes from Alex the editor and just being like, you can tell you're used to screenwriting because you're bouncing from all over and you got to remember you got to stick with one. And so it was really hard to do that. But once I got into it, I was like, okay, this is exciting and it's brand new and it's fresh. But then it also made screenwriting fresh again because then I could go back into screenwriter and be like, okay, how do I do this? Yeah, yeah, then, and then it was fun. It was like, you know, bouncing back and forth and just whatever sandbox I want to play in that day, I get, I get to do that, you know, and so, and I think that's.
[00:15:26] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a great, that's a great answer because I think that there's a lot of people who are multi media writers like people who write different medias or mediums, I should say, they, they could pick like a comic book writer who also writes books. It's like, okay, this is good for comics because this is more visual. This is good for film because it's more like motion. There's places for everything and, and sometimes there are like. You could have written Mouth, I don't know, you could have written Mouth as a screenplay originally and then decided to adapt it into, into a book and, and make it what it is. I mean, it's based on a film, as a filmmaker in it. So that makes like, obviously connects with you.
[00:16:00] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I think, I think, yeah, I think everything that I do, story wise or book wise is going to involve film. Yeah, in some, in some form. Just because it's a part of my life. You know, there's no, you know, I'm not writing, I'm not going to be writing serious drama books, you know, or very, you know, like, I'm not going to be doing. And I think that's just because that's my life. That's 40 years of my life just loving film. And that's going to come through my characters and that's going to come through the narratives that I do is just. Because that's just who I am. It's the same thing with, you know, comics, the same thing with anything that, like anything that I've loved. It's just going to find its way into my work regardless. So film just happens to be the thing that, that has always been there. And I do know that, you know, I, I know people don't always love the references. I know Stephen Graham Jones gets that a lot with his stuff and, and I have seen some 8,114 reviews where they're like, they don't like. And I'm just like, well, that's, you know, but people talk like this, like I talk like that in my regular life, you know, much to the dismay of people in my life probably. But, you know, I do talk about movies and film.
[00:17:08] Speaker A: Well, you write what you know, you write what you know. That's, that's the thing. Like, that's one thing I've always pointed out with Stephen King is Stephen King, who's technically my neighbor, not really my neighbor. He, he has a house a couple miles from me, but not really. Doesn't live there. That's where he grew up, was where him. And he lived there when he wrote a bunch of books. But he always writes about author, always is A lot of his book has features authors in it. A lot of authors. Books feature authors in it. There's the number of times you read a book that's like, this person was going to a remote cabin to write a book. I'm like, yeah, I don't want to. Like, it's like a seventh. Is he writing a book about someone writing a book? It's like, this is how, you know. Yeah, but it's true. You write what you know. And so, like, I mean, your friend of the podcast, Brian McCauley, same thing he does a lot of his books have to do with, you know, he's a screenwriter as well.
[00:17:53] Speaker B: Another screen.
[00:17:54] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, like, you write what you know, and I understand that. And yes, you're right. By purposely not writing around film or referencing those things, it's Is denying what you would talk about, real life. Like, if you have conversations with people like that, then you're denying it instead of just writing it.
[00:18:09] Speaker B: And it's like, you know, you're trying to squeeze in, like, no, right. What you're passionate. And Brian's a great example of that. Where he is, like, the reason why he started writing Curse of the Reaper was because he tried to get it set up as a, you know, a movie. Like, it's like. It's the whole thing of, like, okay, well. And that's going to seep into his work as well. And it's just, you know, I. It's just funny because I'm like, yeah, you know, you should be able to write about what you know and write about what you love about and. Or love. And then, you know, if people don't like it, they don't like it. That's fine. And I'm okay with that. You know, I get it. I do totally get it. But I do think it's a weird criticism sometimes because I'm just like, well, just. I would much rather spend time writing and celebrating something, you know, or like, even referencing something that maybe. And I know this is what Stephen does too, is like, reference a movie that maybe somebody doesn't know about. And so they go look it up. And like, that's. That's the whole part of. Of writing books and sharing work with. With an audience is to maybe give them something that they didn't know or, you know. Yeah.
[00:19:15] Speaker A: Have you seen Y2K?
[00:19:17] Speaker B: I have. I have.
[00:19:18] Speaker A: I loved it, so. Me too. And the funny thing is, I was explaining to this to a friend of mine the other day about how there's way too many Y2K or early 2000s, 99 references in it. But so amazingly, I like it. So amazing. Like, it's so perfect, in my opinion, because it's, like, over the top, but it's like, it's trying to push home on purpose. What error this is happening at.
[00:19:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:40] Speaker A: And, like, if someone just a generic person who maybe didn't grow up and actually live through Y2K, like, someone who was born in early 2000s, who were like, I wasn't even alive yet, or late 90s, or someone who, you know. Yeah. That. Or didn't care or wasn't, like, really around things like that. Like the ins. The opening seat of an Instant messenger burning a cd.
[00:19:57] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah.
[00:19:58] Speaker A: And then it just went on from there. Fred Duras. But, like, yeah, all of that hit so close to home for me because I lived through it, that I was like, I love all these references. Like, you can't. Like, you almost didn't do enough. Even though someone else. Like, I said those. Anybody who's 18, 19 years old, they weren't around when this is happening. And so they're like, this is so over the top. Like, no, it was actually perfect, honestly.
[00:20:19] Speaker B: But you know what's funny is I watched it. I watched it with my girlfriend and my daughter, and my daughter, again, she's only 19, right. So, you know, but I. I was a senior. I graduated in 2000. Right. So that was like, Y2K was. Yeah. Like, it was. And. And for better or worse, I mean, for a while there, Fred Durst was also my. Right. Like, just like, he was everybody. Like, I also don't think they would.
[00:20:43] Speaker A: Have worked as well right now if he wasn't popular right now.
[00:20:46] Speaker B: No.
[00:20:47] Speaker A: Wasn't touring with Limp Bizkit right now. I don't think it would have hit as hard. But, like, to me, it was just really funny. I'm, like, out of nowhere. It was just like, holy Fred Durst.
[00:20:56] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. No, it was great. And. But, you know, my daughter, for. For.
She really enjoyed it. And. And, you know, part of that is because she did have to, you know, when. When Limbiskit did Lollapalooza a few years ago, and it was live, when they were streaming it live. Like, we went over to some of my friend's house and. And she was stuck there watching us. Like, me and my friend Elise just rock out. Like, living that life again and being excited. Like, oh, my God. We were like, this was. Life was so crazy. But see, that's the year 2000, right? Like, but if you were to write.
[00:21:32] Speaker A: That movie or write a book, about it, you would have put this in it. And so it makes so much sense to do that. And by purposely avoiding it. It's the same, you know, thing I've seen recently where someone was like, oh, you can't do that because that person's close to you, so you can't help them. So, so because I'm close to this person, I can't help them out with something like it's this weird, like, you know, how do you, how do you pick and choose to do things? And I think that the best novels and best books and our best books, the best movies that you're going to write are something you related to. So, so obviously I don't know how, how close a relation getting caught in a bathroom and having something like glorious all the time.
[00:22:06] Speaker B: That was every weekend of my life. Like I was like, well.
[00:22:12] Speaker A: So mouth though. If you think about your novels, you have Mouth, which obviously is with the filmmaker. And then you have 8114, which is based on a child at home. So like it's not your child. Actual, like this is not a, you know, a non fiction book, a story about your childhood in, in its own. But there's. You write about it and you write about it, I think in your, in your acknowledgements or your notes at the end. It's very, very, very much influential into this writing of this book. Was that a story you've always wanted to tell? Is this something that like, it's been like percolated or just later on in life you decided you want to do?
[00:22:41] Speaker B: No, I'll tell you, I, I, you know, growing up in that house, because that 8114 is based on the house I grew up in. It's set in the house I grew up in and set in the town I grew up in and still live in.
It's based on.
A lot of the things in that book are real, A lot of those places in that book are real. A lot of the stories in that book are real.
But that was a place that was just as spooky and terrifying as it is in the book. And so when, when I left that house, I think, you know, I think it was 19 when I moved out of that house.
That was kind of it. That was it. That was always the end of that 8114 journey for me. And it stayed that way and for years and years and years until 2022 when I had a nightmare completely out of the blue that my, one of my old best friends, Eric, killed himself at that house. And that and it was. And I woke up and I was like, that was terrifying.
And I wrote it down just because I. I always write down some of my dreams, if they're something like that, just because, like, that was intense.
And I thought about it for the rest of the day, and then I thought about it more, and I just kind of formulated a story around it that I thought was really cool.
And then I pitched it to my brother Tom, who reads a lot of my stuff. He lived in that house as well. And he was, this is a great idea for a novel. And at the time, it was going to be so much more. It was going to be, you know, it's going to be the story that it is right now, but it was also going to feature an entire middle section that I would compare to the fisherman, where it was going to go. It was going to have a whole middle section was going to be the history of Pendleton and how everything kind of ties to. To what was happening. And so that was in the original outline, original blueprint for the book.
And then once I got into writing and I was like, oh, this is. That's not. That's. That's going to slow it down. It's going to take away. This is Paul's story.
And so, yeah, it just kind of came about as accident. I never planned on writing this book until I had that nightmare. And then I was like, that. That was terrifying. And so that. That's really where the book came from. And so a lot of reality, a lot of my real life does spill into the pages of the book.
[00:25:00] Speaker A: Was it hard to, like, not, like, fully be really, like, it was hard or easier to add in some of the. The. The fictional parts of it?
[00:25:09] Speaker B: Well, depending on who you ask, what's the, like, fictional? I mean, I. I think a lot of people are going to be surprised by what's real, which is real. Yeah, Actually not real. You know, there's. There.
[00:25:18] Speaker A: I think you just leave it at that. I don't even think you should be even, like, saying, like, just be very ambiguous about what's real and what's not real. Let people actually guess it would know, you know.
[00:25:26] Speaker B: No, I think. And I think, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. But I. I think, you know, there's people that, you know, Paul early is probably. He's definitely a version of myself. Right. Like, there's definitely. Paul is very much in my voice, my. My sense of humor, my kind of the way I look at things.
Not. Not other parts of Paul early, not other parts of, you know, the story. But I had to very early on decide because I come from a big family. You know, I have, I have siblings. I have many siblings. And so it was very much, do I include the siblings in the book or do I make Paul a single child in this house? And you know, there's a version of this book again with like that big middle section that could have made this, this book bigger than it is. And then if you, you think about, you're writing for, you know, six other siblings and they're like that, and they all have their own story. That's, that's expansive as hell. That's, that's making this, this is a, that's a Stephen King book at that point, you know, where it's like, you know. And so I had to decide early on if I was going to go that route or just go single child route. And after some, some talks and conversations, I decided to go the single child route because I just thought it made more sense for the story I was telling and more sense for the house.
[00:26:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:47] Speaker B: This version of this house. Right. And not in this wasn't. I wasn't telling the whole family story. I was telling Paul early story. And so I had a, that was a very big decision that I had to decide what I was going to leave out. And, and I've had to explain that with a lot of people. I have explained it with my family a lot. I had, you know, my mom was reading the book and I was just like, it's not you. I had to, I have to keep Harry. This is not you. You know, there's, there's, there's nods and references, but I was like, it's not, you know, and so things like that where, you know, I, I do think because it is such a personal story, there are going to be people that are like, is this me? And I'll be like, yeah, it's probably you. But you know, like, it's, it's, it's versions of you. Yeah. So it just like, this is a version of me, but it's not me. You know, it's like.
[00:27:31] Speaker A: So.
[00:27:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:27:32] Speaker A: I also love the, the, the avenue of a podcaster. So, so Paul's a podcaster, and that is a lot. That's a very common trope in thrillers and like mystery stuff like, you know, you know, the, the, the turns home because there's a murder in your town and.
[00:27:48] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:27:49] Speaker A: Kind of thing. It's very common in horror. It's not seen as much, which is really cool because honestly, there's a Lot of horror podcasts. There's a lot of, of true crime that could be considered horror in that sense too. So as a podcaster myself, yeah, I connected with that in a way, which is really cool. And then, you know, the debate on what you podcast about, like, you know, like, if something big happens but it's controversial, do I get on here and spout off about it? Do I not?
[00:28:15] Speaker B: Right.
[00:28:16] Speaker A: So for. And obviously Paul deals with that a little bit too. Like, I've got this thing that I really want to talk about. It will kill it on the ratings and people will listen to this thing, but it's kind of pissing some people off. That was a cool thing. I think in that sense, adding that podcaster in there was really cool. Does that, I mean, you don't podcast, do you?
[00:28:36] Speaker B: I do not know. I, you know, it was funny because I, I was like, when people are like, why'd you make it a podcaster? I'll be like, well, you know, it made sense for the story.
But if you think about the other side of this, I was writing this while I was promoting Glorious Mouth, so I was doing a lot of podcasts and I, and I just think, you know, I think it's a fascinating art form and I think it is becoming, you know, depending on what you choose to listen to, I think it is becoming the most reliable news source and has been, you know, and I think it's the most reliable source of connection for fan. For fandoms, all of all kind. And I think it's the most reliable source for all of these people to connect and form communities. And I thought about what if you use that to your advantage, you know, the kind of person that would use that to. To their advantage is, is a person that would ultimately also put themselves in a situation to just keep screwing up and, and do that again. Because once you're in that mind state of, I'm going to choose to be this controversial person, I'm going to stay being that person, you know, even when I'm facing the greatest tragedy that I've had to deal with head on. And it's going to, you know, open this doors to two terrible things. And that's why I think that there's, I just think it's the best way to tell this story. And so, and I just think I really just enjoy podcast and enjoy podcasters. I love coming on shows, but I think, you know, what's the other option? He's a documentary documentarian, you know, and it's like that just kind of Connect.
[00:30:22] Speaker A: As many people, I don't think. I think it connects.
[00:30:24] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:30:25] Speaker A: Heavily into documentaries, but, like, how many. How. How big of a crossover is that in your genre? Right.
[00:30:31] Speaker B: You're not watching a documentary like, every week. Right. Like, you're listening to a podcast, like, multiple times. And so I think that was. You know, there's a version of 8114 that is a document that he's a. You know, and there's. Maybe that's the movie version of this story, you know, is. Because, you know, podcasts maybe don't translate as well cinematically. But, yeah, that was the reason why I went with the podcast.
[00:30:55] Speaker A: It makes sense. I'm going to start telling people that I was the influence.
[00:30:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:30:59] Speaker A: I'll just say people don't know, but I'll just. I'll tell you right now.
[00:31:03] Speaker B: We'll never admit it was a backdoor deal.
[00:31:05] Speaker A: Yes. The. The funny thing is I so. So I saw Glorious, had no freaking clue who you were.
And I'll just admit that it was absolutely phenomenal. I watch a lot of shutters.
[00:31:18] Speaker B: That's 99 point person of the. The entire world. That other point is just like, my daughter and my girlfriend and my mom.
[00:31:24] Speaker A: And this one really obsessed, weird person on the Internet.
[00:31:29] Speaker B: Yeah. This one guy that keeps trying to get me to go into a bathroom.
[00:31:33] Speaker A: Okay.
No, but the. The shutter, the tune. The. That stuff, like, to me is just like, gives me goosebumps before a movie even starts. So there's that. But I was honestly, I regularly daily check Netgalley because I. The books that are coming out, I want to know. And so there's a lot of books that I know I want to read. Like, there's just. I have a list. I put a list out at the end of the year of, like, these books I'm looking forward to, or I've read some of them, so on and so forth. And then there's the daily check of just, like, what books have been added. So, like, you see. And obviously, you know, you're judging a book by its cover, but by trade, I'm a graphic designer, so I always judge things by their design. And so the 81 or 14. First of all, absolutely love the shortness of all your title. Most of your titles.
[00:32:19] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:32:19] Speaker A: Because, like, to me, there's too many people out there. I mean, we're having Matthew Rosenberg, comic book writer, on in a couple weeks, and all of his titles for comic books are like sentences. And I'm always like, you suck when you're trying to like write something or do something. Like, it's such a horrible thing.
[00:32:33] Speaker B: And the Eric LaRocca title, like, right, exactly.
[00:32:37] Speaker A: Like, come on, man.
[00:32:39] Speaker B: The best title.
[00:32:40] Speaker A: Yeah, they're, they're amazing. But it's just like, dude, I, I. Come on. So, so that was one. The COVID itself was just like, oh, I've got to do this. Added to my wish list. And one of the reasons why I didn't immediately was just like, submit for request or whatever was that it comes out in August. And I was like, jesus, man. Like, this is out for a long time. And so I was like, it gives me a little time trying to figure my schedule out because obviously I can't read everything and so on and so forth. And then all of a sudden I know, I just felt like, you know what? I want to do this. And I requested it and I got accepted and I read it. 218 pages. Ish is what the book is. I'll tell you right now. That's an approachable length for anybody. I think there's a lot of people out there who don't read Stephen King because of the length of some of his novels. And so I think that's huge on that scent. But also the COVID I think also 218 pages allows it to be a, like a slower, like a lower price bracket too for people. So that price is approachable.
[00:33:26] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:33:27] Speaker A: And so but all of that was like, okay, I need to read this. And then I freaking read it. And I was like, okay, this is amazing. And that's when I connected the dots.
Glorious. And everything else. So I was like, oh, this is pretty awesome. But yeah, I absolutely loved it and I'm so glad I read it. I, I. What's cool about it too is I feel like I read it so early before the release date that I feel like I also will forcement. I force myself to but I'll just stumble into reading it again between now and then. But I have to make me get a PDF from you because it will expire on deck galley probably in April.
[00:33:55] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what's funny is I think the readable for, you know, it's like you said, where it is it is it. It hit. It hit netgalley so early. Like, you know, we started and we did start sending arcs out like. But I, but I love that because I Mouth was such a different experience with arcs where I think we started sending arcs out maybe like a month before the book, before Mouth came out. And so it was, it was Cool. It was like real brief. Boom, boom, boom. But this has been a lot of fun because you're. You're seeing this real time sort of reaction to it from a lot of reviewers. A lot of that. That's fun. That's. And you're going to. And you are getting to see like the frustration of people be like, oh, I want to. Oh, shit, it's not out until August, you know, which is. I get it. It's a long. It's a long time. But I, I genuinely. I love seeing the reaction to it. I love seeing.
I don't know how it's getting all the. The buzz that it's been getting on all these lists, which is great. I. I'm appreciative. But it's just been. It's been fun to see it from both sides of like, okay, the brief arc window and now this long arc window, which is giving a lot of people a lot of time to, to digest and ask questions and, and it's been a lot of fun to just have these open now. It sucks for like, me personally because I can't really. Not that I respond to a lot of reviews and stuff, but there's some that I'm like, I wanna, I wanna like talk about this publicly and like, be like, this is what. But I can't say it because, yeah, it's like, you know, the book's so far away. But yeah, but I'm. And I can't really spoil it. You know, it's like we talked about. You can't really give things away. But I think the re. Readability of it for people who read it, you know, like you. This earlier than maybe you revisit it. It's. It's gonna. I think other things are gonna hit maybe that weren't so clear. You know, hopefully I'm hopeful. Hopeful.
[00:35:48] Speaker A: That's how it works. And I'll be completely honest with you, it's a possibility. I don't reread it again ever. But that's just.
[00:35:54] Speaker B: That's just right there with you. Right there with you.
[00:35:58] Speaker A: I'm probably more apt to put Glorious on again, even though it will give me like way more chills or like, you know, gross. Yeah. And make me not want to use a bathroom again. But no, the, the. It's just. There's so much stuff out there, but I think that's a huge thing. And I think the people that so. So obviously reviews online are. Are horrible sometimes, sometimes great. Sometimes it's a whole mixed bag thing. But there's a as of right now, there's 110 Goodreads ratings. And just look that up right now. That's a lot for this far out in advance. But those are the people who really wanted to read it, in my opinion. You know, I mean, like, those are those, you know, so even if they gave a one star because they didn't like it or whatever, maybe they were really wanting to read this book or that early. And I think that's a cool thing. I think that's one of those. I don't know. I just feel like there are a lot of big authors, like if Stephen King, I don't think sends out arcs anymore at all. But like, if they, if they are, you're like, okay, I'm gonna read them. Drop everything I'm reading to read that. But like, to actually carve out some time this early to read it, I feel like that's a, that's a good sign, in my opinion, whether it's a good reviewer. I think it's pretty cool that someone was that interested in reading it that early.
[00:36:59] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree. And I, you know, what's funny is I, I was kind of worn. Not warned. Warren's a bad word given. They gave me a heads up that maybe netgalley isn't always so friendly to. And I, and I've seen a few others say that like, you know, but genuinely, it's been really nice. I, I, there's some negative ones on there, but I, but I'm really happy with the response on NetGalley and I know it's a lot of the same crossover on the Goodreads. It's a lot of the same things, but I, I just really think, again, I like, even if it's a negative review. Thanks for reading the book. I love like, it's, it's, it's always great and it's, you know, this was not a position I was in two years ago. You know, I'm sitting here talking about two books now that are out that have positive and negative reviews. And that's all I can think about is how cool it is that people are just taking the time out with so much shit out there to read these weird little things or whatever.
[00:37:53] Speaker A: You know, I think some of the reviews that you get in. So like, do you, do you get access? Does this Clash send You those from NetGallery like that? Or is that just something like. Because I know. So netgalley, for example, it's like, it's pretty much you're not anonymous, but like, it's not Publicly shown. Unless the, the a publisher decides to feature your review. And usually someone's only going to feature reviews they're positive.
[00:38:12] Speaker B: I'm on, I'm on that, I'm on that galley though. Okay. So I, so I can get, I get.
[00:38:16] Speaker A: Okay, so at least Goodreads is like you're putting it to your profile. So like.
[00:38:22] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:38:22] Speaker A: Someone might be like judging you and seeing you and seeing all your other reviews. Whereas Netgalley, it's like a thing. You send it in and then like the people who have access to see those things.
[00:38:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:38:32] Speaker A: See it. Unless they decide like the publisher, whoever could feature the, the review. And then those of us who want to go in there and see it can go see the featured review.
[00:38:39] Speaker B: Right, Right.
[00:38:40] Speaker A: And like, I'm guessing Clash doesn't go in there and be like, oh, this is a one star review. Let's put this on there. Like, I'm guessing.
[00:38:45] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know how they do it, but I, but I see every. I, you know, I, I know there are some authors that don't pay attention to reviews whatsoever. I really, I genuinely like to see everything that's kind of being said. That's, that's, that's not, you know, that's a weird pivot from like my filmmaking stuff because like I used to be like, oh, no people, you know, but, but with these. I, I really do. I genuinely am curious about what everybody thinks.
[00:39:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:39:14] Speaker B: And you know, and it's, and it's just fun to see the wide variety of stuff, you know?
[00:39:20] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I felt like, I feel like it's weird too reviewing movies and reviewing books or like a different thing. It's a lot easier for me to throw in an hour and 20 minute movie.
[00:39:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:39:28] Speaker A: An hour and 20 minutes than it would be to commit a couple of weeks to reading a book, depending on your speed of reading.
[00:39:32] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:39:32] Speaker A: You really can't do anything else but read the book. I mean like, I read a lot of audiobooks too, but like that I can wash the dishes, I can do something while I'm doing it. Whereas like reading an advanced copy, it's. You're reading text, you're just. Yeah. That's committed to it. So like, you know, and that's, and that's why I understand why someone might not finish it if they didn't like it because they're like, I only got a finite number of time and all this other stuff. But I'm also to the point where I'm like 218 pages like, it's not that long that you can't. Just because things. I've read so many books. I'm reading the Outsider by Stephen King right now, and I'm 50% through it. And it was 50 through it when, when Holly Gibney. The only reason I'm reading it is because of Holly Gibney, because the new book features her as well. And I'm like, it's 50 through before you actually, Holly even is featured in there. And if I just off and didn't finish it, then I wouldn't get to the point where she's actually in it towards the end. So, like, I feel like reading something is not. It's not that difficult unless it's like a thousand.
[00:40:25] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think, you know, that is the thing about this 8114. It kind of dives right in. Like you're, you're like you're, you're. You know, it's not. There's not 100 page setup here. It's like there might be like a, you know, like a 20 page set. Not even 20 page. I think there's like a five page setup and then. And then you're in it. So. Yeah, I, you know, I, that's also my, my movie stuff is. Is I. You know, that's the screenwriting aspect where you gotta. I want to get in as late as possible and go from there. You know, I don't want to do the big, the big build up thing, you know, But I also don't know if I'll ever. I don't. Like, I thought when I turned in 8114, I thought it was longer than it was. And I was like, oh, it's only two, you know, 200. And I was like, damn. I thought that was like a 300 page book. And I was like, I'll never be able to do one of those because I was just so. You know, I feel like the same.
[00:41:10] Speaker A: Way on the other side. It's like every once in a while I'll get an advanced copy that's like 400 pages long. And I'll be cranking along, reading it on my phone just like in bed or whatever. And I'm like, sweet. And I look down and I'm like, I've read five pages. The. I thought I was like 40 pages into this book. This is gonna take forever to read.
[00:41:26] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep, that's it. Definitely. My. Yeah. In my writing, I'll be like, I'm doing so good. And then it's like Two paragraphs.
[00:41:33] Speaker A: I'm like, yeah, it's, it is what it is. So, so you, you write screenplays. You obviously are an author. We're talking about that here in 8114. Comes out in August. Which is, which is amazing. Pre ordered that too. We'll, we'll continue talking about that here in a second. But I wanted to say it's like, so I hate the word easiest because it's not easier. Everything is hard. You know, if you're good at it. Then again, some things come easier than not. But do you think that writing something like mouth in any 114, it's easier to get in front of eyes because it's not a movie. Like, it takes a lot more effort and, and work in like meetings and budgets and all this stuff to get a movie made.
[00:42:12] Speaker B: Yeah, I will, yeah, yeah, I will say, okay, yeah, so easiest is the, is the wrong. Easy is the wrong term. But I will say there are.
And again, this is gonna sound negative.
[00:42:26] Speaker A: Less obstacles. I think there's less, there's less voices.
[00:42:28] Speaker B: There's less, there's less, you know, so for Mouth, it was, there was three of us, right?
It was. And I, and I had essentially final cut. Like I had to listen to anything. They, they, they said I could have put the book out how, how I wrote it, but I'm very collaborative, so I, you know, obviously as, as, as you should be, is listen to every note and listen and think about it. But so yeah, I had, you know, it was Alex, Matt and myself on Mouth and that was it. And, and then on, on 8114, it was kind of the same thing where there's, there's a couple, there's like three of us, four of us that have input on it. And, and I think if this were, you know, film versions of these or just film in general, you know, for, for example.
And again, not a negative thing, but like Rebecca and I have been trying to make a movie since Glorious came out. Like before Glorious came out, we, we were trying to set up our next movie that came out in August 22nd and that is finally about to start shooting in March, I think, you know, and a movie that had a script done before Glorious came out that has, has, you know, had to go through all of these things, you know, and jump over all these. And, and that's not, that's not a bad thing. That's just how, you know, there's so many people and so many levels of, of things that have to be okayed and approved and, and and looked at when you're doing films. And that's, that's the exciting part because it's such. You, you're inviting so many voices into the process of a film. Right? Like, and, and that's exciting. And there's so many people that are, that are going to be a, a part of this journey, but sometimes you get the opportunity to just tell the story and then put it out, you know, and like, and that's the great thing about books. And, and that's why I'm having a lot of fun bouncing back and forth because it is, you know, I do get a. Have two books out or, well, three or four, you know, technically. And I'll hopefully have four books out in three and a half years, you know, and, and that's how long it's going to take to make the second movie, you know, like, which is, which is wild to me, but it's just all different formats and different processes and different people. And that's all exciting because you're, it's all in the name of, of creating and trying to do some cool magic, be it movie or book. And so it's all, you know, so easiest is not the. Yeah, the word. But I will say, you know, books are a more singular vision in a more singular experience. Whereas, you know, you're, you're, you're signing up for movies, you're signing up for the group project, you know, and you're, and you're signing up for a lot of things.
[00:45:21] Speaker A: So do you, as a screenwriter and someone works in the film industry, do you think that, like. So, for example, 81 14, being in front of these eyes, people reading it, people liking it, so on and so forth, that selling it and making it into a movie, this is an opportunity for people to read, like the people, the masses, to see what it's like and like this thing and help push that potentially into a movie at some point than just trying to sell a script, you know, a spec script to someone?
[00:45:46] Speaker B: Yeah, I think so. So there's already been math like, like multiple companies have already inquired about the rights. So I, it's looking like that could be a possibility. I'm hopeful. But I, I think that this is such a. It's in, in 8114 in particular, because as you've read it, there's some really dark stuff in there. You know, this is not a, it's not a, it's not a fun movie. You know, it's not a go. It's not. I wouldn't even say it's Glorious has some dark stuff, but this is some really dark stuff and some stuff that I, I think is not going to be for audiences. Now I, I know there are people that have non horror readers have for some odd reason decided that they were going to read 8114 and who have never read a horror book before. I've noticed this on NetGalley, which is really funny and I'm like, you chose this one.
[00:46:38] Speaker A: That's really why I've never, I've never seen a horror movie before. I'm gonna watch terrifying.
[00:46:42] Speaker B: Yeah, right, right. And it's wild to me. But they ended up loving it. And really. And so I think there's, there are more people in the book world that will give a chance. We'll give a shot right to, to something horrific. Whereas if you watch a trailer for 81:14 you're gonna be like, oh, I'm out. You know, and.
[00:47:01] Speaker A: Which was me six or seven years ago. I'll tell you that right now. Skip over the horror genre and film. Like it just, it wouldn't be my thing.
[00:47:07] Speaker B: Right, right, right. And so that's what. So I don't think it's gonna make it easier. I think it's gonna, I don't think it's an accessible movie to the wide public and I just think that, but that's, that's horror in, in general is. I think that I, I would say the same thing for Mouth. You know, I think Mouth is too weird and would be way too weird and it would definitely be like an indie level movie that would be, that would only, you know, it would be released on a small scale and it would be so weird for, for a lot of people because they'd be like, I'm not watching a movie about a mouth. You know, that's a weird, that's, that's not accessible. So it's, they're, they're both kind of their own thing that I don't know. I don't know how they would translate to screen and how that would look. But I do think 8114 would have more eyes just because it is such a. More accessible.
Regardless of how horrific some of the stuff in there is palette, if you will. And, and, but I don't think that's going to make it any easier for, for them to get to that point or for, for the audience to find them, you know.
[00:48:13] Speaker A: But I think, you know, personally, if I saw 81:14 as a trailer and hadn't read the book, then it's maybe a little Bit different than someone who's a fan of the book because you actually know what you're getting into. Sure. It's the same. You mentioned Eric Laroca, you mentioned his, their stuff. Like it's the same thing. I feel like if you wish saw a trailer for one of one of their books. Yeah, what the, and then yeah, you know, the material that it's a little different. And I think that I, I don't know. I, I, I will say that, you know, Terrifier isn't the end all be all for horror movies for people. But I, I do think that it opened up the, like, open up some floodgates for some people to, to kind of like push the boundaries of things and actually want to see these films because I feel like it, it's, it Again, it's not the perfect films. They're not the most amazing films in the world.
[00:48:51] Speaker B: Oh yeah, listen.
[00:48:52] Speaker A: But I think that it did open up the possibility of people being more willing to take a risk on, on things they may have either grossed out about or, or just terrified.
[00:49:04] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I, I, Terrifier is a perfect example. I'm not a, I, those movies are not made for me. I, I, I, you know, like they, but they do and have done incredible things for the horror genre and they have opened so many doors and eyes to so many people in the horror genre and that's worth celebrating like every single day. I, it's, it's funny because I am working on. One of the film projects I'm working on right now is actually an adaptation of Anybody Home by Michael Silinger. I don't know if you read that one, but that is, you know, a, a home invasion thing that is really brutal and really the film version is not going to be as it's going to be a different thing.
But in that script we, we actually, you know, I, I reference the good that Terrifier has done for, you know, like there's, it's, it's, it's commentary on the horror genre and, and in that script I talk about how what Terrifier has done for, for our audience and, and making horror fans a little more open to what they're willing to watch and the general public, you know, and I think that's expanding a lot just in general with, you know, look at the monkey that's coming out. That is going to be a batshit crazy movie and it's gonna probably make a lot of money because, and you would, and you wouldn't be well because of Stephen King, but yeah, but because mostly because it looks awesome. Yes. And you know, and I think you're seeing this, this new sort of approach to horror.
[00:50:44] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:50:45] Speaker B: Where people are giving things a chance that they would maybe not have given a chance two or three or four years ago. And I think that's exciting for, it's exciting for all the filmmakers, screenwriters and exciting for all the authors who have these wild ass books that can now be adapted into things that would not have been safe, you know, five years ago, four years ago. And so. Yeah.
[00:51:04] Speaker A: And let's be honest, most horror movies are, are fairly cheaper to make than other movies too. So like the studios are probably like, oh hell yeah. This is also pretty nice because we can make a movie for like 60,000 or 60 million and not have to worry about, you know, big things. And so, and then things like shutter, obviously that's huge. I think for the horror industry box is the same thing. Places for their homes for these things and people can, can watch. It's funny because Terrifier to me never really was that, that, that movie that I would even put on like I mentioned five or six years ago, I wasn't really into these things. And so, so if you add this in, I was lucky enough, my buddies, owner convention and they were bringing in David Howard Thornton and they're Damon Leonard to this convention. So I also work for a brewery and so I do graphic design for the brewery. So we did a beer called Terrify PA for the convention. And so that was, and then I was like, well, I gotta watch these movies and so on and so forth and getting to meet the guys and, and, and David Howard Thornton out of his mask, out of his makeup looks like he works at an Enterprise rental car. So that's awesome. And so all that's too. But again that it opens up to me watching the third movie with a completely different eye than I did with the first movie because it was like I want to see the actual film making in this and not just being grossed out. And I think that, you know, it gets good publicity. People fainting in the like. Yeah, you didn't see that. They also didn't take their medicine that day.
[00:52:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:52:24] Speaker A: You know, someone threw up in the movie. I'm like, you mean because they had 17 beers before they went to the movie theater. That or they had the flu. He didn't think about that.
And it helps all publicity on this, good publicity on that side of things. And, and, and so yeah, I could see 8114 being that and that not obviously it's Nothing close to that, that scale of like.
[00:52:45] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. But I mean, you know, shot there's shocking things in there.
[00:52:48] Speaker A: And I think that like it's also, I think part of it is when I went and saw Paranormal Activity for the first time. So that was one film that I did see in the theaters. My ex girlfriend at the time really wanted to go see it. So we saw it. And that scared the out of me. I mean I was backing up in the movie theater parking lot and like people would walk behind me and I'd be like, what the is? You know, like that kind of stuff. And, and up until the end of that movie, the editing, the edited, the end of the original movie and I thought that it changed a little bit of the movie, but I could see, I'm like, this could be real. Like in my mind I'm going, this is actually security scammer footage from this person. Sounds like this is 100 real. I, I, there's no fiction in this at all. And so on and so forth until again to the end, if you haven't seen it, first of all, screw you because.
[00:53:27] Speaker B: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:53:28] Speaker A: But a little bit so it jumps at the screen. It just, it ruined it for me in my opinion. But the realness and the, the, the, the borderline between fiction and non fiction I think is what does so well in 81 14. I think that to me would sell it in general as a book. People should read that because like I said reading this, you know, with a couple of small changes, it could be a non fiction book, like you mentioned.
[00:53:53] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:53:53] Speaker A: You know what I mean? And then the opposite, you know, you know, pushing the boundaries of that. I think that to me when you're reading a book and going some of these things really happened is pretty screwed up. So I think that's huge in my opinion. I think that's what probably sells the book for a lot of people.
[00:54:07] Speaker B: Thank you. Thank you.
[00:54:08] Speaker A: Yes. It's phenomenal in my opinion. So, and again, 218 pages is so accessible. Like to me I'm like, I don't know how to, you know, and nothing's missing. I think that's, you mentioned how you, you kind of cut a middle section out of the book that it could have been longer. This is not like you were clashes like hey, you got to be under 225 pages and cut things out like this. It was written in a way that if you didn't know you were just going potentially doing a longer version of it. Yeah, no, maybe 10th anniversary, you add the direction. Yeah.
[00:54:38] Speaker B: You know what's funny? You know what's funny is we had actually talked about that because, because somebody had somebody read it and they were like, we would love to see like pictures. It was just, it was a really fun idea. And I was like, oh, that's a good idea to do like 8114, the director's cut that has like annotations and all that stuff. But, but you know, like it's funny because when I did turn in the book, they were like, this is really tight and like very in that again, that's where my screenwriting was helped is because I, I really, I do. Right. Very tight and very like I want to get the story done. I want to, I don't want to fluff. But I also, you know, it's very much structure and very like it's that, you know, that 100 page mark on screenplays where I can know like, okay, you're essentially doing a three, three act structure for 8114. And, and if each, each act is this, you know, so it's very, you know, I, I do very much believe in. Just tell the story you have to tell.
Don't, don't fill in a bunch of stuff, you know, that you don't have to. Because I, I don't think every story needs that. I don't, you know, especially this one. I think, I think it was very important to get in and get out as quick as possible.
Mostly because that house scares the out of me.
[00:55:56] Speaker A: But dude, I don't even know, man. Like, I just like trying to think of like being you. And like, I don't know, I just like, I. Luckily the best thing about this too is like, I guess I didn't. I don't know if I wrote this in the review or not, but like, like I live in a house that's. It was six years old. I live in a townhouse, I rent a townhouse. And I literally moved into this place. All my got moved into the garage because they were done. Not done like sealing the tile.
Like it was like that close to being done.
[00:56:21] Speaker B: That new. Yeah, yeah.
[00:56:22] Speaker A: And that new. So to me I'm like, unless I'm on an Indian burial ground, I don't think that there's many experience things here. Now six years later, when I have a freaking nine months old, a ten month old daughter, the floor creaks way too much. I don't know what the hell this guy. All of a sudden I know where it was. Like I had my second child and it was like the whole house is gonna make noise and wake everybody up. No, but I never, I never really lived in that old of a house or that house that has that history to it. And so to me, it's like, I'm glad I read this book here. Honestly. If I read this, you were in like a 1900s farmhouse. I would have been like, yep. Nope.
And so like experiencing that and being able to tell the story in a way that you were able to take some liberties with, but also like tell this story so people could hear it. It's pretty, it's pretty badass in my opinion. I feel like I, I can see in you and hear in you the excitement of actually having people read this and so on and so forth. Now you have to wait from this point we're talking now. This is coming out February 5th. You have to wait six months before other people get to read it.
[00:57:24] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's exciting because, right, like this is, this is now the build up. We get to start building it up and I get to start, you know, we have some fun ideas and I have some fun, fun plans. You know, I mean, again, that house is three minutes away from where I live now. So, you know, I'm gonna, you know, there'll be some exciting, you know, maybe some walkthroughs, some video walkthroughs and stuff. Just kind of leave, you know, and it'll be some, some neat stuff. And it's, it's just really, it's been exciting to, to see the excitement and the reaction so far and just like kind of, you know, it's gonna be a fun six month wait for sure.
[00:57:57] Speaker A: In it now, like this is the year in release year, publication year is here. You're in it. And this is pretty cool. Cool on that. And so that comes out August 26th in 2025 from Clash Books, which is awesome. I'm so excited for people to read this book. It's so phenomenal. It's so scary. It's so, it's emotional. There's like so much into it. And again, like being able to talk to you and having this conversation is really cool. And I hope people enjoyed that as well. I can't wait to see another movie from you. I'm excited. Yeah. So I'm excited for those, that future.
[00:58:26] Speaker B: Of yours, working on them. A lot of things.
[00:58:28] Speaker A: I'm glad you're not separating. I'm not. I'm glad you're not retiring from screenwriting to write novels.
[00:58:32] Speaker B: No, no, no, no. It's a. That's. That's not. That's my number one. That's. That's always my number one. Film. Film and screenwriting will always be. You know, it's just. It's. It's what we talked about. It's that that stuff takes so long, you know, and then you. You. You couple that with the strikes and you couple that with everything else that's been going on. It's just, you know, it's. But. But there are things. There are things happening and things coming, and. And hopefully it'll be a busy year and. And next year, you know, so.
[00:59:00] Speaker A: And I'm guessing this is true for. For. For at least a lot of people I talked about. It's like, also, like, having different avenues to write these stories also keeps your mind fresh on the different stories too. I think that that's a. If you just strictly spent time on screenwriting, it had no other kind of, like, output to do these things.
[00:59:14] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:59:14] Speaker A: I'm guessing things would get clogged up or.
[00:59:16] Speaker B: Well. And I think. Yeah. Yeah, that's. That's. And that's coming off in glorious. It was like I got stuck in this little. Everybody wanted something weird for me, and I was like, oh, okay, yeah. You know, like. But I'm really not that weird. I am weird, but, like, I'm not like, the weird guy.
[00:59:31] Speaker A: Not what you're expecting me to be a weird about.
[00:59:33] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I'm like, like. And so when I. When. And then Mouth was kind of still weird like that. But it's in 8114, I think, has really shown I'm not the weird. You don't have to be the. The weird whole guy. Right. And like, I. And. And there's more projects that are like, okay, it's. It's. I'm writing a lot of different genres, a lot of different things that, like you said, it really is nice not to just be stuck in one aspect of storytelling or genre or things like that. It does really open the mind. It really does help the creativity.
[01:00:07] Speaker A: I tell you right now, it's not that easy. It's not like, as simple as a. You want to just do it, let's do it. But I would be down for someone who also reads a lot of comic books, having you be the writer behind a nice horror series miniseries of comp.
[01:00:19] Speaker B: I would love to. I would love. I. Yeah.
[01:00:21] Speaker A: Because that's obviously. I think that's all. I would feel like that's closer to screenwriting than it is. Than. Screenwriting definitely is. Prose novels I think that there is that visual aspect of it too. And working with someone who has a visual eye, like an artist and stuff.
[01:00:33] Speaker B: Yeah, I've done a little bit of comic writing. Nothing, nothing I want to, I really have thrown it out there that I would love to do comic book writing. After Glorious, we got, when they launched the DC horror imprint, when they were doing like the black label stuff, we got to. I was lucky enough to pitch a few things their way. They didn't go anywhere, but it was a lot of fun to pitch some cool things like that. And it was really exciting just to think about. And I just love comics. Like, I'm a big comic fan. I mean, I'm. One of my projects that I'm working on right now, it's my dream project that I've spent like 15 years pursuing that is gonna happen. And it's a Dark Horse thing. And, and, and we're working on that. And, and so I just love comics, I love film, I love it all. And so yes, I, I would love to do more comic stuff.
[01:01:26] Speaker A: It's one of those things where I'm like, I want to see it. So it's just gonna have like, obviously.
[01:01:29] Speaker B: It'S not that simple.
[01:01:30] Speaker A: And you know that too. Yeah, it takes a, it takes a, you know, sometimes a chance meeting or, or something along those lines that afterwards, in working on this project could lead to something in the future too. Because I know for a fact that Dark Horse has some phenomenal horror titles.
[01:01:44] Speaker B: Yeah, that's, I mean, that's that Rebecca's, Rebecca's series is with them. So, you know, it's like, yeah, I, I, yeah, it, I would love to do that.
[01:01:52] Speaker A: That's awesome.
[01:01:53] Speaker B: But.
[01:01:53] Speaker A: 8114, August 26, 2025 Clash Books I'm so pumped about a pre order that I, I, I'll say it over and over and over again. I don't think people understand how much pre orders mean. And I will say that there's a bunch of places I know for an example, like if yours on Amazon or anything like that, you don't actually get charged until the book ships. So like, it's not any different. It doesn't hurt your bank account. It doesn't hurt you at all.
[01:02:15] Speaker B: Right, just right, right, right. Until you forget about it and you're.
[01:02:18] Speaker A: Like, oh yeah, yeah. And same thing with, you know, if it ever gets into an audiobook, which would be kind of cool too. The same thing with those is you can pre order those nowadays too. I don't know what the plan is on that, but I think that disgusting.
[01:02:29] Speaker B: It's in this.
[01:02:30] Speaker A: That'd be kind of cool. So. But yeah, and bookshop.org is obviously a huge thing for us because that supports local bookstores and check with your local bookstores. But again, and I'm going to reiterate this for anybody who's ever listened to the podcast, if it's between not buying it and buying it on Amazon, buy it on Amazon. That's my whole thing. I don't support a huge mega corporation. But in the same sense, if you're choosing between buying it or not buying it, it still helps. Joshua here.
[01:02:53] Speaker B: It's still a free trash.
[01:02:54] Speaker A: It still helps all that stuff. So just do it and get it over with because I think it's really worth it in that sense. And you know, if anybody wants to watch Glorious because it's phenomenal, just don't watch Glorious and read Rest Stop back to back. I just feel like at that point it's just too much.
[01:03:08] Speaker B: Or do. Or two or do.
[01:03:10] Speaker A: Nat's like, wait, wait a second.
What the hell are you talking about now?
I do think you guys would be awesome. You guys like, you know, do a tour, a little like, you know, contour where you guys sit at a table together and just sign toilet seats.
[01:03:23] Speaker B: I gotta meet him. Yeah, I gotta meet him for the first time in person back in September. And it was awesome. It was great.
[01:03:28] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[01:03:31] Speaker B: He's wonderful.
[01:03:32] Speaker A: He's also weird, but in a good way.
[01:03:34] Speaker B: Stoked. Stoked for his new one. Yeah, I think it's gonna be awesome.
[01:03:37] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, I just read it. It is.
[01:03:39] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[01:03:40] Speaker A: Oh, God, it's phenomenal. So it's coming out here pretty soon too, but yeah, you know, cool. Maybe. Maybe curl up the. The. The film on Friday, the February 14th. Watch Glorious with your significant other. I think it's.
[01:03:54] Speaker B: Great. It's a love story. It's a love story. It is a love story. Yeah. Yeah.
[01:04:00] Speaker A: Different others picturing. But yeah.
[01:04:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
In your relationships.
[01:04:07] Speaker A: I do appreciate you coming on and Chad, and taking the time out of your day to discuss your books, horror movies, all that stuff right here on the podcast. We'll have you back at some point in the future for sure. You know, keep us. Keep us on your radar for anything you want to talk about in the future. But yeah, good luck with publication in a couple of months and I'm hoping things are a great 2025 for you.
[01:04:28] Speaker B: Awesome. Thank you so much for having me. This is great.
[01:04:30] Speaker A: Appreciate.
