Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to the Capes and Tights podcast right here on Capesandtights.com I'm your host, Justin Soderbergh. Once again, this episode is brought to you by our friends over at Galactic Comics and Collectibles. At galactic comics and collectibles.com we welcome back Zach Kaplan to the podcast once again, Zach is a maintime guest, but always fun chatting with this comic creator. Kaplan is the comic writer and creator of such comics and graphic novels as Mindset Beyond Real, the Midnight Shadows, Dark Empty Void, Kill All Immortals in the upcoming series over at Dark Horse, the Masterminds. We chatted so much about all of his comics and the different stuff. But check out this episode. But before you do, follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Blue sky threads, all those places. You can subscribe, rate, review over on Apple or Spotify or wherever you find your podcast. You can also find us over on YouTube and as always, you can check out capesandfights.com this is Zach Kaplan, comic creator of Kill All Immortals and Masterminds. Enjoy everyone.
Welcome back to the podcast. Zach, how are you today?
[00:01:07] Speaker B: I'm good, how are you?
[00:01:08] Speaker A: I'm doing wonderful. Doing wonderful. Yeah, it's, it's a great, it's actually a beautiful day here in Maine. It's actually really nice. Turned out to be nice.
[00:01:14] Speaker B: Beautiful day here in Los Angeles. So we've got both sides covered.
[00:01:17] Speaker A: It's probably really crappy in the middle of the country right now.
[00:01:19] Speaker B: Summer is here. That's right.
[00:01:21] Speaker A: It's probably snowing in Oklahoma right now because it's nice in the other.
Either side of the country right now. No.
[00:01:26] Speaker B: Well, they might win, they might win a basketball championship. So, you know.
[00:01:30] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. It's gonna be snowing something out there that's. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, welcome back. I mean it's been, you've been on a couple times. It's been a little while. Yeah, I'm glad, you know, I'm glad to chat comics with you. We actually just finished in, in, in May for the month of May, reading Kill All Immortals for, for my book club at local comic book shop comics and collectibles. And so that was really cool to do that and I, I had read obviously the issues but to reread it again and intrigue for me, it was really cool. I'll tell you right now. I have props to you in the design team and Dark Horse and everything for the numbers on the page breaks like the chapter breaks. Oh, dude, I was so. I was so. I love the way it looked, and I like how it broke up just enough.
[00:02:13] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:02:14] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Sometimes I feel like there's no break, and I kind of want that break. And sometimes it's too much break. Which, like, every trade, every beautifully designed.
[00:02:22] Speaker B: Book, it's a combination of Dark Horse design. But then Tom Muller is our main designer. He did the logo design and the COVID designs on a bunch of the covers and a bunch of the issue interiors. And so Dark Horse did a great job of continuing his work in the trade. But, yeah, if you guys are not familiar with Tom Muller, he's one of the premier designers in comics. He did the House of X, the whole X Men relaunch, and his name's on so many amazing books. He does a ton of your favorite logos. So. Yeah, that's.
[00:03:00] Speaker A: That's so cool. I'm so pumped about that because it's just one of those things that, like I said, I'm a designer by trade, too, so those things kind of point out to me. And I think I brought it out. I think I brought it up in the book club, like, discussion. And they're like, yeah, it was cool. And they moved like. I was like, am I the only one?
[00:03:13] Speaker B: But you were geeking out on it. That's good. I'm glad you were geeking out on it.
[00:03:16] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it was great. It was a great discussion. That's one of those things that we've. We found also that, like, you need to have one or two. We have about 15 people. Sometimes like, 10 come. But, like, you need to have that one or two people that don't like the book. You mean, like, not like hater, but, like, they have to be the people who like.
[00:03:31] Speaker B: And I don't. I don't need them, but I guess we need them for.
[00:03:34] Speaker A: For discussion for that group. It's like you need that one person to be like, well, you like this. But we. So it was great. It was like, you know, we've read books, you know, House of Them for an example, was one that, like, we had 10 people in the group. Like, 10 people liked it. And the group was like, over in, like, 15 minutes. We're all like, yeah, that was great. We liked it. Cool. Let's go get a beer. It was, like, done. It was. It was like, there was no discussion.
[00:03:55] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:03:56] Speaker A: You need to have that one or two people who are like, you know, you're. I'm like, jaw dropping about this book. And they're all like, you're wrong. I'm like, okay, let's have a discussion. We need to have this discussion.
[00:04:05] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:04:06] Speaker A: Otherwise, I mean, it was like I said, it was pretty good discussion. People liked it, people were happy. People sought out the idea of seeing other books from you and excited for volume two, which is really cool. So you know, hey, it works. It did what it supposed to do and we entertained and it was fun and that's all you can ask for. And people buy your book.
[00:04:23] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean you can't sell, you can't, you can't win everybody over and sell everyone over. But I mean, generally for us, the response has been. It's been one of my most successful books. And I mean at a time where comics are struggling in a lot of ways, publishers are struggling, stories are struggling, the numbers on the book have been incredible. The appetite for it was great. And so it was kind of a very easy conversation to say let's do more, let's turn this into an ongoing and let's give readers more of this. So we're very excited to be bringing it back and we're very excited about all the hype that went around the first issue. I mean the first series, the first arc. And yeah, I think it's a people's, you know, it's interesting as a creator to look at appetites in the marketplace and look at what people are looking for at different times.
You know, it's, it's if you look at television like invincible being a bloody action packed series that is just, you know, killing it. You know, just people are loving that, loving that kind of energy. The Boys has been, been a hit for years and there just seems to be an appetite right now, especially in the past few years for, for really John Wick stuff.
And so there's just an appetite for violent, energetic action stories.
And then we're doing the things that we love to do, which is create a bit more complex of a character story and explore some themes that tap into what's going on with billionaires in the world. But people really enjoy and the art team on it, FICO Asia just kills it on the art. So yeah, it's been a real ride for us. So I'm really glad to hear that 10 or 12 of the people there in there of your group loved it. We'll take it.
[00:06:16] Speaker A: You know, it is what it is on that side and so it's actually kind of funny too. It's actually proof is in the pudding.
[00:06:20] Speaker B: Right.
[00:06:21] Speaker A: If you're getting a volume two, it's going into ongoing.
It's not as simple as some movies or things like that where they're like, well, this movie made a bunch of money, so we're gonna. We're gonna make another one. Whereas in comics is in something more creative like this. I say that not the comic book movies aren't creative, but like something along this line with. It takes a little. Have a. You know, a lot of work to put this out, and it's not as big as movies are. It has to be creative. It has to be good as well as sell a lot of copies. It can't just be, we sold a bunch of copies. Let's move Volume two, because I think people will read into that in the comic industry. I think people can see that if it just sold it very well and Volume two comes out, it might not do as well. And so, you know, this is a disc. I always say this disc against Paul Blart Mall Cop, but they made a Paul blart mall cop 2. If that's anything like the first one wasn't amazing, but.
But it sold a bunch of tickets. So they're like, oh, we might as well make a sequel to this. I think in comics a little different in that sense that it still has to be really good for it to come out in a Volume two, but it also needs to sell well because there's definitely comics that are really good that just didn't catch on and don't get that second wind. And I'm hoping that there's a mixture of both. I'm guessing over at Dark Horse that it sold well, but it also was popular in fan critics.
[00:07:30] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah, that's an interesting question. And I like to geek out on examining comics as an industry in the marketplace. And so I wonder.
I'm sure there are those comics that are the Paul Blart equivalents, where they are. I can't think of any. And I probably wouldn't name any if I could think of any of them because I'm smart. But I think that there must be some that are flashy, trying to grab your attention, trying to get a lot of issues sold at the onset of, um.
But, you know, over time, maybe the. By the end of the. The run, you know, people picked it up because they.
Because of some. Some other elements, you know, or because. And then maybe they feel now that one didn't really deliver. So I. But I think you see that the value of solid storytelling and creativity that comes out in. In the end, sales that comes out in the graphic novels, you know, seeing Kill All Mortals have great numbers on the first issue. Okay, we Grabbed people's attention? Did we sustain it throughout the entire series? Did we take it all the way to issue five? Did we. Did you see that in the trade sales? Because if people had been excited about the first issue, but then been like, oh, man, this. This sucks. We're not into this, then you would have seen that. You would have seen that beyond industry, Industry standard drop off. You would have seen it in the. In the trade sales. When you see boosts and when you see more longevity to something that lets you know that something's working.
So, and I think you're right, movies can see some success on. On a first movie, and they can roll into a sequel pretty fast. And that's essentially like the issue, too. But, you know, Paul Blart did not become a TV show and a franchise. They did a couple, and they realized, okay, this is all we've got out of this one. Whereas something like John Wick was not just. They didn't just grab us the first time. They grabbed us again and again. And that's a solid, amazing franchise, because issue three, issue four, so to speak, it kept It's. It built its audience, it kept its energy.
And so, yeah, I think comics works that way. You know, like, you can get away with one or two, but if you want to go the distance, you have to make sure that you're. You're giving readers not just spectacle, but. But something more to the story.
Yeah, we tried to liken it to.
I mean, when we set out on this, Erica Slaughter was one of our pretty major touchstones. And we. And we kind of also looked at it and kind of said, where are the action heroes in comics? Because there are some. But I personally felt like there were not as many as there had been in the past. And I think that it's kind of.
It's daunting. It's kind of like, wow, like, let's go create something. Could. How do you. How do you do Erica Slaughter? Like, that's a kind of, you know, but you kind of just do it one issue at a time. Like, that's kind of. You just tell us, you know, okay, here. Here's Frey. Her name's Frey Oswald. She's an immortal Viking. She kicks ass. She's got some struggles. Here you go. And people go, okay, I'm. I'm down with her for the first arc. You say, okay, well, now what we're going to do is we're going to say, are you interested in coming back to see her again? And. And, you know, we're optimistic, but we'll see. And it, you just see how it goes and if, and if it's, if it spreads, if people say, hey, you should get into this, then then suddenly you're building, you know, a more of a, an iconic eye drawing action character in comics. But it feels like they're, you know, the ones that go. There are some great ones that go the distance. But that was kind of what we set out to do to see if we could pull it off. So it's been a lot of fun so far.
[00:11:30] Speaker A: You have Kill All Immortals now as a trade that you mentioned. We've talked a couple times now is now you get into going to kill All Immortals 2. And what's different that going into the second series? You know, is there something, is there stuff. I'm guessing at the end of issue five, you obviously had. If we decide to go further, we have some information, we have something to go off of.
[00:11:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:50] Speaker A: What's different going into these. The second volume that you go, okay, I'm gonna do it this way or that way compared to doing volume one?
[00:11:56] Speaker B: Well, from a story standpoint, I mean, if you've read Kill all the Mortals, there's a gigantic cliffhanger in the last three or four pages.
And if you're wondering if we just randomly inserted that cliffhanger but we're going to do something different, no, that's that we, we told you exactly what the next season is going to be like. It's right there. Like you meet, you meet the next bad guy and that's where we're going. And that's what it is. But I think that it really expands the world. I mean, I think you initially read Kill All Mortals and it's a story about her and her family and there's a mystery about how are they immortal.
And she's obviously trying to break free from her family's very barbaric and murderous influences. She has kind of more ideals and wants to be a better person in today's society, but she's kind of also comfortable in this kind of very affluent lifestyle and not, you know, she has to learn that to get free she's gonna have to make lots of sacrifices, but that's kind of where she's at. And so the first season is very much about her and her family and their story.
What's so exciting is we get to blow the whole thing out. Like now it's like, so what else is out there? Where's the world go? So the second arc expands the world so much.
And yeah, everything from the mythology to the other characters that you meet, to the other secrets that you find out. So I feel like it's really, really loaded in terms of that. So I feel like if you liked that stuff, if you liked the secret gathering, treasure hunting, globetrotting sort of aspect of the first season, the second season's just all out on that. And then with more, with more bad guys, with more immortals, with more characters, you get the chance to have more varied fights and more interesting action. So the action is not confined to the limitations of Frey and her family. And there's so much more opportunity to expand it. And so, I mean, I think we never felt it was almost like there's so many opportunities here. Where do we go? Like, we would brainstorm together. The editors, Spencer and Connor at Dark Horse at the time, and Fico and our colorist Diego, and we would all brainstorm about where do we go, okay, what's next? And the number of possibilities and ideas that we had were just.
There was so much.
So, yeah, I think it's really exciting. And then the art team is just, you know, firing on full cylinders now. I mean, they, they got their sea legs on the first arc. It's absolutely gorgeous.
Now. They're a well oiled machine. Fico and Thiago just like are so in tune. Hasan just, you know, amazing on lettering. So we're bringing in cover artists that we worked with before who are just killing it, especially Oliver Barrett, who's our main cover artists for the whole A series. And so, yeah, I mean, it's really a fun thing to expand and I haven't done it in.
This is my first ongoing series since Port of earth back in 2018-2019-2017-1819. So, yeah, it's been awesome to expand it.
[00:15:16] Speaker A: I'm glad you touched on the ending and having it be like, no, we didn't just drop that in there and go some completely different throat. I literally just earlier this morning we discussed my buddy Paul and I, who owns Galactic Comics and collectibles, for the 40th anniversary of Back to the Future, we discussed the Back to the Future first movie comes out in a couple of weeks or the week after this episode. We discussed the idea that the ending of that movie was, was not designed for a sequel. It was a design for their adventures are going to continue off screen. And they went into a sequel because it did so well and successfully and financially. And people like the movie that they obviously placed that at the beginning of the next one. I said, how pissed would we have all been if they like was an amazing stinger at the end of that, that, that movie. That then they completely went a different direction in the second film. I've been so pissed off. So I'm so glad that it's gonna get in the same way.
[00:16:05] Speaker B: It's like, no, yeah. This was not just the stories that could come, but maybe we're gonna redirect and cut two years later and it has nothing to do with it. Like, no, like and, and, and the next issue, like right from the get go. I mean I'm not gonna spoil anything. Although we put out a pretty amazing teaser. Just this.
If you're online, Google kill all mortals two teaser. Watch that 45 seconds. If that doesn't show you that we're coming out of the gate swinging like, I don't know what will. Like, it just, it literally takes what, what the end of the first arc and it, it's like you were waiting for that. We're not going to make you wait. Here it is. Boom. So it's right, right out of the gate. So it's a lot of fun. Yeah.
[00:16:49] Speaker A: Go watch Paul Blart Mall Club.
[00:16:51] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:16:51] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:16:52] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:55] Speaker A: Kevin James is getting a on all of you here for no, for no real reason here.
[00:16:58] Speaker B: He's a funny guy. He's a funny guy. If you can drive around in a scooter and get two movies out of it, like.
[00:17:04] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. I think the reason I always have.
[00:17:06] Speaker B: It in my mind, I have nothing against success. I, I anytime someone hates on something that's super successful, I'm like, it's right there. Anyone can do it, but no one does it. But that person does it and they're super successful. How can you hate on that?
[00:17:18] Speaker A: Well, people are always like, why is there 17 fast and the Furious movies? And like, because it makes billions of dollars. Why do you Family.
[00:17:25] Speaker B: The family.
[00:17:26] Speaker A: That's why. Yeah, well, this is a family, right? But yeah, so this action packed. It's like one of those things someone said in their book club was, and it made me laugh too. Was like I loved reading it now but I might, my freaking 16 year old me would have fucking loved this comic book just because it's like just people getting their ass kicked in every page. It's insane and it's. Yeah, it's writing those and making sense and having story to go with it. Not just this movie. You know, there's the scary movies out there, the horror movies that are just there to scare you. And you get into the movie and you're like, what was the movie about. I don't remember the movie's about. And so the same thing with action films. It's like action films where it's like a bunch of things blows up and people get their butt kicked and all that stuff. And at the end of the movie you're like, well the movie wasn't that good. It just was visually good. And Kill Our Immortals has both of that. So there's some action scenes in there that are just like in your face.
[00:18:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:11] Speaker A: Oh my God. But then the next panel like explains it all or goes further with that or so on and so forth. So that's a school Immortals.
[00:18:19] Speaker B: But it's also know me as a writer. Like this is my first action story. Like really, I mean I'm coming off of doing Beyond Real a year ago, which was like a surrealist simulation theory sci fi adventure about what it means to be an artist. An artist. And like we had seven different artists on that. The whole thing is very ethereal and emotional.
So yeah, this is a juxtaposition. I love telling really heartfelt character stories and I love telling complex character stories. I mean most of my stories involve characters that are flawed.
I don't have, I don't like one dimensional characters and I don't like characters that, that are on the right path. I like characters to realize that maybe they're on the wrong path or maybe they don't have everything figured out. I like kind of throwing characters in the deep end and then watching them have to face.
Face a world that they didn't really understand.
So, you know, that's kind of what we're hoping to do with Frey. And it very much taps into me a lot of my modern feelings about what's going on in the world, just in the broadest sense. Just feeling frustrated with income inequality and the power kind of being on display by billionaires and super successful people and how they feel, feel immortal and how we, we feel very mortal and very insignificant and. And what are we supposed to do about that? And so it's, you know, it taps into some very timely.
Although I don't have the answers and phrase trying to figure out the answers so. But I like to kind of pose questions. That's always what I've done with my stories and kind of say like, you know, what are we going to do about mind control on our phones? Or what are we going to do about, you know, you know, mega cities and all this stuff? So I like to kind of come up with these interesting kind of topics. Kill all mortals gave me the chance. But it's my most action oriented stories. So while we're having fun with that, we're still trying to provide a very complex, heartfelt character story. We want you to care about Frey, but not know where her story's going, not know what she's going to do. I think even in the first arc, she makes a couple of choices where readers are surprised and you go, I did not think she was going to do that. That's very interesting. Like, okay, that makes sense. But that, you know, I'm surprised. There's a special, a couple moments in right around issue four where if you haven't read it, there's some big surprises, but then it makes sense. So that's kind of the character storytelling that I love to do and we try to do that here as well.
[00:20:50] Speaker A: It works out really well. It's a good balance on that too. But it's definitely one of those ones where it's like, if you want some entertainment, there's some entertainment. If you just want straight, if you want to. That's the cool thing to me is like, if you watch Transformers over again, Michael Bay blows the hell out of things. But like, you don't always watch it for what happens in the movie. Sometimes you're just watching it to see robots kick each other's asses. Like, it's just some fun to watch. So, like, I feel like Kill All Immortals has both options for you. Read the, Read the trade straight through, get the idea of the story, understand what's going on, see the character development and the plot development. But then read it again. Just watch people get their butts kicked. Like, it's just one of those things. It's like the artwork is the action right there. You just watch it sit there, you know, hey, you're taking a dump. Just sit there and watch your. Oh yeah, this is cool. And look through it like, whatever. It's just one of those things that has multiple reasons why you'd want to read it over again. I think the same thing with, with certain movies that like, you just, like, you just watch Die Hard to see some cool action going on, people falling off buildings and things like that. And that's not always for the actual story. But then again, you want read it again. Read again. I mentioned I read issues and then watch the game trade.
[00:21:52] Speaker B: Yeah, the action is. The action is, is incredible. Fico is a really up and coming artist. He's been killing it over at DC on several titles there. And Diego Rocha is.
I can't stop working with them. He's just a fantastic colorist and they're, they're a powerhouse together. So, yeah, it's a, it's a real visual, visually stunning book. And it's, it's. I'm very proud of it. Proud of these, proud of the action.
[00:22:18] Speaker A: Yeah, it's so much fun. And we get more of it coming with the number one Kill All Immortals for volume two coming out in October.
[00:22:26] Speaker B: Yeah, it's right at the top, October 1st. So we were almost September and then we just, we fell into October. So we're at the top of October and I think you have a couple months to order. There's like, man, some gorgeous covers.
Oliver Barrett does the A cover. Then we've got an amazing artist who's Matt Taylor, who does our B, John Jang on our C cover. And then we have a cover we haven't shown off yet, but by Tula Lotte who is I think Eisner nominated as cover artist of the year. So, yeah, some really killer covers coming and then the whole series has got more great covers by some great artists. So that's awesome.
[00:23:03] Speaker A: So looking forward to that. But before that, we're going to, we're going to. You're going.
[00:23:07] Speaker B: Not my next one. No.
[00:23:09] Speaker A: Yeah. You go on a different side of these things. And I was lucky enough to take a look at it over the weekend.
And Masterminds. So you're going into this. You have. This is cool too because they're both a dark horse and you got this one like slashing swords and killing people and blood going everywhere. And you got Masterminds, which is a different avenue on this.
First of all, what's Masterminds about? It comes out in August. What's it about for you?
[00:23:34] Speaker B: Masterminds is a noir thriller and it's about one of the most powerful secret societies in the world. It's a bit more of a. Of a mastermind circle than a secret society. If you're not familiar with this phrase. It is something that exists. It's a group of people that agree to secretively help each other to get ahead in the world by any means necessary. They've been around for a couple hundred years and this is about the most elite, most successful mastermind circle and about a young programmer who dares to try to join them. And he is put through a night of puzzle solving, kind of real life squid games. And it's very David Fincher esque thriller. Who can you trust? Who is controlling who? What's really going on? We've got some really kind of fun Puzzle solving that we present to the character. But I think the readers will all kind of play along. So we're essentially inviting everybody to see if you're smart enough to join the masterminds. You know, are you a mastermind? And come give it a try.
[00:24:38] Speaker A: I was so pumped. I read your stuff. I like your stuff. So that was it, a question anyway. But we were talking on this podcast. I was like, oh, I got a chance to look at this and I won't spoil anything. But I was thinking to myself, like, reading it, you're getting things set in stone in the first couple of pages, first couple panels, things are moving along and all of a sudden I know where it just jumps forward, not just for, but the gas is hit and it's just like, oh, shit, we're into this now and this is going to be fun. And it's one of those things that you need to have that footing and set this person up and give the backstory and character development on our main character. But then all of a sudden I know where I'm just like, towards the end, I'm like, what the hell? Now I have to wait for issue two, you know what I mean? Like, you need that. You need that cliffhanger of sorts to make it so that people want to read the next issue. But in the same sense, when you get to read it this far in advance too, it's one of those things.
[00:25:23] Speaker B: That'S like, yeah, you're waiting a long time. Yeah, but then I get to get.
[00:25:26] Speaker A: True, to read it again when I get closer to the, you know, like.
[00:25:28] Speaker B: It'S one of those things. Yeah, it's a lot like the, the ride that the character goes on in terms of trying to solve these puzzles and like the.
I don't know how to describe the, the world that he goes into, but he goes into this really kind of crazy world of, of real life stage quasi staged moments that he doesn't know if they're real or not. And they're kind of testing his.
Not just his intelligence, but how far will he go. They're texting his morality.
And so it's a really kind of fun. It's a little bit horrific, it's a little bit sci fi, it's a lot thriller.
But yeah, we're really looking at the gamification of life and how, I mean, I grew up, you know, in the 80s and 90s with this idea of like. And maybe I was just a naive kid, but I always thought that you work hard and you kind of get ahead and like, if you are smart and you are dedicated and you have good morals and ethics, like, that's how you succeed in life.
That's not true.
That's not true. If you look at everybody, the people who become filthy rich and filthy powerful, they are. That's not. I mean, maybe there are one or two, but there are so many people that become rich and powerful by being horrible human beings, and they just do anything to get ahead, and they, they ally themselves with other horrible human beings. And it's almost like you have to be in on the inside. And so. And then what's really sad is we've seen over the past five or 10 years, I don't know if it's social media, our political culture, just the, the world as it evolves.
It almost feels like even at a lower level, like everything is a game. Social media has just gamified our desire to get ahead, to get more followers, to get more whatever. And so it feels like it's changed us a little bit this, this gamification of success and of life. And we all know it now. We all kind of know that if I'm working 9 to 5, this is probably not going to get me there. And I'm looking for that opportunity that I can tolerate, my morality, can accept, but how can I get ahead?
And so it's really kind of about that culture. And so because it's about that, it required us to spend time with the main character. So you start off just seeing that he's a guy who had a tough life growing up and kind of found solace in gaming and found solace in puzzle solving, and he went into the gaming industry because of that. But he's kind of a darkly shroud, kind of, you know, like, he's, he's, he's, he's.
Yeah, he's not. He's, he's on edge a little bit, you know, and he's, he's, he's anxious to get ahead, but he doesn't know how. And he's frustrated and disillusioned. He's a dis. He's disillusioned, which taps into my own disillusionment. And yeah, he's. But you like him. Yeah, you like him. He's smart. He's. He, he starts off as a, as a guy you're kind of rooting for. He's trying.
[00:28:46] Speaker A: Yeah, he's, he's gone through some struggles and you're like, oh, I feel for this person. And he ends up, you know, he's a gamer. So you work when you're a gamer and you end up being able to work in the gaming field, but then you also feel for him because, like, there's definitely people who work in the industry they want to work in, but they're not where they want to be.
[00:29:03] Speaker B: Yeah, he's working on different trees for a year. He's, he's coding different trees and he's like, what is this? You know, this is terrible. And so he's, he's this kind of hero. He's kind of a little bit of an everyman. He's someone that we can relate to and we can all identify with this idea of wanting to be further or wanting to be seen and recognized. And then the, the people that see him as this mastermind circle that say, oh, we see you, come join us. But what are you willing to do to get ahead?
And you know, we don't know. We don't know who's controlling who. We don't know how far he's willing to go. We don't know how dangerous and dark it's going to get. It's, it's a ride and it's, it's, it's very David Fincher esque, both in the esthetic and, and the twists and turns that kind of come out of the story. And it's a five issue series. It's drawn by Stephen Thompson and who is an amazing illustrator. He did the Midnight Shadows and I don't know, just got some God level stuff that he, he, his, his, his detail work and landscape work is just phenomenal.
[00:30:12] Speaker A: Just trees, man, he's got those trees.
[00:30:13] Speaker B: He's got trees, killer trees. And Thiago roaches are colorists. Again, a completely different style than the Midnight. Completely different style than Kill Immortals.
Yeah. Hassan is lettering the book for us. A fantastic. Tom Muller did my design. I love working with same people sometimes.
[00:30:28] Speaker A: So I mean, you got a group of people that will do things. Well, that's right. Yeah. But it's so funny because, like there's certain comics that I go into it, like I need or books or novels or anything or movies I have to read the solicitation of the description to even get started. And there's certain comics that I forget and I'm like, halfway through I'm like, oh, I never actually read what this is about.
[00:30:48] Speaker B: Did you read this one or no?
[00:30:49] Speaker A: No, I didn't. So that's the funny thing. So I knew, I think I probably did when you announced it. I probably read like the email from, from Dark Horse PR and was like, Going through and being like, oh, this is going to seem badass. So. So there's a couple of things that I didn't get or didn't understand going into it. Didn't know going into it. And then I read the whole thing. I'm like, this is phenomenal. Like, the comparison to David Fincher in there. I'm like, well, no wonder I like this book, because I love David Fincher as a director.
And then the other one was like, this artwork's phenomenal. And I got to the end and I go, who is the artwork? And I'm like, oh, no, shit.
Midnight Shadows is amazingly beautiful. So it was like one of those things where I'm like, obviously these are these things, because at the end I'm like, oh, no wonder I Like, this is. Because obviously these things are falling into pieces place because of the people that are creating us. But yeah, it was. It was so much fun. It was one of those ones where there are certain comics where I read and I get through, like, page three. I'm like, how many. How many pages are left? They're good. It's just like, how many pages are left in this? And then there's this kind of comic book where I'm like, getting to the last page and like, oh, crap, it's over.
Think about it. I'm just going through and I'm reading this thing. I'm entrenched. Forget what was around me at the time. It was just like in this. In this thing. The funny thing is, I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing. I. I had like a now you see me vibe, but not in the. Not nearly the same as what it is, but it's, for some reason, with the whole mysterious, the shrouded thing around it and the. In the. You don't know what's. Who's pulling what chains and things like that. I kind of had that. No, it's magicians or anything like that, but I had this, like, now you see me movie vibe to it.
[00:32:17] Speaker B: I feel like that's fair, because now you see me as another who can you trust, controlling who sort of thriller.
And it is in the world of kind of staged experiences, staged phenomenons, and there's. There's, you know, secrets to it. So I think there's. It's a different story, but I think, yeah, there is a lot of same atmosphere and elements to it. You know, we actually had a hard time finding, you know, like, with Kill All Immortals, it's like this is secession meets John Wick like clear as day. And everyone's like, oh, yeah, it is. That's exactly what it is. It's secession here. It's like I was hard pressed to find many comics out there that I feel like. You see a lot of horror, you see a lot of action, you see a lot of fantasy, you see some comedy, you see some thrillers. Usually thrillers are crime thrillers. Usually thrillers are killer thrillers. I had a hard time finding a, you know, a thriller in this vein. A sort of every man pulled into kind of noir. So if you're listening, you can hit me up and. And share some. If you're like, oh, you should know this one. I'd love to hear it. Yeah, yeah. The Fincher esque is kind of, you know, what we.
What we came. Came at a loss. Squid Games a little bit, but in the real world, you know.
[00:33:35] Speaker A: Yes, yes.
[00:33:35] Speaker B: But now you see, now you.
[00:33:36] Speaker A: In the real world. The real world, not the real world. Squid Games. It was on Netflix. Like, not that kind of thing where it's like staged games that are like, people survive. These people are. People are going to die.
[00:33:44] Speaker B: Right, Right. Well, no, so I think, I mean, like, squid. Squid Games takes place like on a secret island somewhere else. Whereas here the challenges are happening, you know, right. In the city somewhere. Like, they're going to a place and they're finding, you know, a place where I don't want to give too much away. They're finding a party, they're finding a thing where it's like, oh, there's a challenge going on right here, right now with all these people around. So. Yeah.
[00:34:10] Speaker A: Yeah. And yeah, there's moments like that too, that people are like, oh, it's that. And you're like, oh, I think I could do this. And then. And so there's this. Yeah, it's like everyday. See, everybody sees it. Squid Games. It's not like you can just walk down the street and see Squid Games happening. Yeah, it's on a remote island somewhere. We have to like.
[00:34:24] Speaker B: I think for me, you know, it's funny because you brought up the different books. You know, Kill All Morals is a whole new vein for me in terms of being like action hero story.
For me, this scratches my. The itch from Mindset. I think a good bit. If anyone read my Vol. Comics book, Mindset, which was a mind control thriller. It's about a group of grad students discover mind control and then they put it in an app and then they take over the world with it. Everyone's using it they don't know, you know, who's controlling who amongst their group. They don't know if, you know, they're controlling everyone. And it's a very much kind of a Fincher as sort of vibe to that as well. That was done with artist John Pearson. And so I think in many ways it taps into that sort of energy. Another flawed character trying to deal with kind of modern times in a kind of noir thriller sort of storytelling thing. So, yeah, it's good.
[00:35:21] Speaker A: I feel like I just. The David Fincher asking me, I feel like now I need to do like a review eventually of Masterminds. It was like, Zach Kaplan is the comic book version of David Fincher. And that would be like your thing wherever he's like modern day Stephen King or this whole, like, every single comic or thing you put out will have this on the title, on the front. It's like the modern day. You know, some of the stuff is.
[00:35:41] Speaker B: Some of the stuff doesn't qualify at all for like, Kill All Mortals is not at all real, is not at all fingers. You know, it's like in the same way, like, Lemire has different. He has different lanes that he goes and, you know, and sometimes he's doing something like royal. Royal City, you know, and he's drawing in and it's quirky and this. And then he's got, you know, Gideon Falls, you know, and it's completely different. So he's got these different.
Different lanes that he likes. So I like David Fincher thriller stories a lot, you know, and. And mindset was definitely totally up that alley. And this is. Is. This is totally up that alley in terms of. In that energy.
[00:36:23] Speaker A: So does it help that mean you now have. I mean, you're always writing comics, you're always writing ideas, you're always pitching things because you're a comic book writer and you're. You're busy and you're trying to get. You're trying to make a living at this is. But does it help that, like, Kill All Immortals is this one genre and one type of comic, and then you have masterminds over here. So while you're writing these coexisting comics that are coming out right around the same time, they are not like, blending stories or you have totally different worlds.
[00:36:48] Speaker B: It helps me as far as a creative person, I think I'm.
I have happen all the time that people are like, wait a minute, you wrote that one too.
So, you know, I. Even though almost everything has been science fiction to some degree, Kill All Mortals is a little More supernatural masterminds is. Is actually a little more just thriller. So, you know, I'm starting to. To come off the pure sci fi a little bit and do a couple different things, but I think I've done so many different types of stories that, yeah, I get people going, oh, you've done this or you've done that? And being surprised when I'm at a convention and someone finally comes to my table and they're like, wait a minute, I've read half of these books, but I didn't realize it was all you. Something. Yeah.
[00:37:37] Speaker A: Thank you. Appreciate that.
[00:37:38] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:37:39] Speaker A: Thank you. Thank you for reading about.
[00:37:40] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm glad you read half dozen now. We're.
[00:37:43] Speaker A: I understand that there is a positive and negative in that.
Daniel Krause is considered a friend of mine, friend of the podcast. Every single one of his novels are a different type of novel. Like every single one of them. It could be a thriller, could be a horror, could be a, you know, he says, I have a romance novel to write. I said, yeah, see, but the thing is he's known for all of that too. And then I talked recently to Philip Frikassi. He wrote a sci fi time travel book, but he's known for horror. And I was like, the funny thing is that's more the sci fi people who fall in love with you, they're going to be pissed the next time they have a new book come out that it's horror than horror. People are going to be pissed at you because you wrote a sci fi novel.
[00:38:21] Speaker B: So, like, it's one of those things.
I think I'm safe from that because I'm so. I've so diversified with different kinds of things.
Some things are big world, some things are small, dark, Empty Void is a cosmic horror thriller. It's like contained, claustrophobic, annihilation, alien sort of vibe. Again, completely different than kill all morals. But there are people out there that are reading both right now. So I feel like I'm probably attracting readers who like big ideas kind of. I think my characters are all kind of likable, but maybe a little complex and a little flawed kind of characters. I'm probably, there are probably certain characters that you would never see me do. You'd be like, he's never going to do that kind of character. I still, I do a certain type of. A certain different series. Series of characters and like, I like to look at timely, topical element. So there's always some sort of like, oh, this is about mind control, but it's really about our relationship. With our phones and technology. Or, you know, this is Breakout is about, you know, aliens abducting kids and, and it's a sci fi prison break, but it's about we passing problems on to younger generations and we tell them to just live with it. So like, there's always, there's always a kind of modernality that I like to try to find. And I think that probably that commonality, as long as I'm true to that, readers will not mind as I continue to jump around sub genres and stuff like that.
[00:39:43] Speaker A: Well, luckily, I think in the comic book world too, I think you have these people who are like, I'm. Your name is on something and I'm going to read it because I like your style. You're writing. Yeah, you write well. So, like, there's definitely writers that I can't read. Like, it's just one of those people that are out there. Like, they, they're good stories and they have.
[00:39:57] Speaker B: Not for you, right?
[00:39:58] Speaker A: It's just not for me. And so. But there's also one of those things that I know that if I dive into a Zach Kaplan comic, I'm gonna like the writing at least. Like, the topic might be off or the genre might be off for me, but like, I'm gonna like the writing. I'm able to read this comic no problem. And then. So. But there's also people out there who just see a cool title. Kill All Immortals. That's a cool title. Masterminds is an artwork on the COVID Like people. That's the great thing about comics too is like you walk into a comic book shop and you see the shelf and you see the COVID it's like, okay, that looks like a badass cover. I'm going to pick that up. And what's this about?
[00:40:32] Speaker B: So important. You know, it's just.
Yeah. I mean, it's not by happenstance. And I especially put a ton of energy and perfectionism into the title, into the COVID into the design, into the esthetic. It is very.
I am very well aware that that number one cover is going to sell the book or not sell the book.
So you look at Kill All Mortals, you know, for example, like, Kill All Mortals is like, okay, it's a family of immortal Vikings. This could be done in a cheesy way. So many different ways like that, that this idea, people hearing, okay, what's this about? This could be cheesy so many different ways. But we don't want it to be. We want to sell you on the modern kind of energy of this. We want it to feel new and different. So what are we going to do with the COVID So the COVID is a fashion magazine, basically. Like, Frey is on issue one of the COVID looking like she's modeling a suit, and she's turned around in the chair and she's holding her Viking weapons, but she. She looks only quasi Viking. She looks almost like she could be right out of secession. She's modernly dressed, and then there just so happens to be blood everywhere. You know, it just. So we're not telling you why. You don't see any bodies, you don't see any violence. You just see blood everywhere. But she's. She's calm about the whole thing, and it's just a different kind of esthetic. And we did that for the whole series of covers. It was. Each brother was kind of styled on the boat in the club, you know, by the pool. And it just brings the energy to it, which is. Which is a nonchalant kind of modern approach to. To this story. And I can't tell you how many people told me they picked up that number one cover, the one right there, just because they didn't even know anything about the book. They just picked up because of that cover. And I have the same feeling that Masterminds is going to have the same kind of impact.
It's this.
You see the silhouette of a guy falling, and he has this giant face mask, this. Of this person watching him, staring right at us. And right in the mask is this. This red symbol that looks like a maze. And it's just. And then there's all this, like, glitching around that makes you feel very, like the whole thing is like you're, like, being watched or what is real. And it just. It just gives you vibes. It just has this real, like, mysterious, energetic. What is this? Like, this looks dangerous. This looks interesting. And I have a feeling that people will pick that up just on the shelf.
So I'm very focused on what energy are we trying to convey here, what aesthetic, what color palette, what design features. Like, it's very important. I really.
My collaborators, I'm like, we got it. Like, this has got to be right. But it's so important.
[00:43:29] Speaker A: It really is. We always get told when we were young, for some reason, not to judge a book by its cover. And it's like, well, yes, there's. In the comic book world, you mentioned issue one, and it's not easy, but it's easier to sell an issue one than it is all the other issues. Just because you have to convince someone to Buy issue two by having a good comic into issue one?
Yes. Will you sell issues two, three, four, and five of this issue? If the covers are really good, because someone wants to collect the COVID which is really badass. But if they didn't read number one, then it's really hard for someone to pick up number two. So number one has to sell, like you said. Also, I think you're the one that mentioned it before is like number one cover is the one that ends up nine times out of ten, being the trade cover. Like, it ends up being what promotes the comic from that beginning to the end of that comic. So having that cover is just ideal. The graphic and the design of the COVID and the logo and the name obviously do something. You're telling me right now that Something's Killing the Children is a phenomenal comic book, but that name is sold so many comics for them. It's not even great title. It's a great title. And so, like, that does have something to do with it. And there's some misses sometimes where people either have a title that doesn't really work or the title graphic in the logo is not great and it doesn't sell it.
[00:44:37] Speaker B: But yeah, and I. I think I remember the issue one of Something is Killing the Children, isn't it? With the trees and the eyes in the background. And she's there and she's got a weapon. Yeah. And yeah, it's. It's. It's got a little Red Riding Hood sort of energy, but it's modern. It's not emphasizing on the. On the monsters. It's emphasizing on the character. She's small, so the world is big in comparison. And she's not center frame. She's left a frame, which means she's got this vast emptiness that awaiting her. There's a lot of little tiny micro decisions that convey more about where the story is going and what they want you to take away from it. And it just says, this is kind of a whore in the woods sort of thing. But this, she's got a weapon. She's an action heroine, and this is her story.
I just think it's so important. I mean, you're taught at a young age, never judge a book by its cover. But that's really what they tell us in kindergarten, so that we give every girl a chance. Right.
I think we should absolutely judge books by their cover. And I think the creators should put a tremendous amount of thought into their books.
[00:45:42] Speaker A: It's beneficial.
[00:45:43] Speaker B: I don't understand it, like, especially in compost. And it's facing to you. Yeah. And it's a craft. It's a craft like anything. In the same way that paneling is a great panel layouts is a craft. Coming up with the right covers, coming up with the right titles. Look at that one.
[00:45:59] Speaker A: This was not on purpose. I just had this literally this stack of comics I need to put away.
So this is just time.
But no, it is that. It is one of those things that it does. You have the ability to have this sitting on the shelf looking at you. Whereas if you go to some bookstores, like novels, the spine is what you see most of the time.
[00:46:19] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:46:19] Speaker A: And so like there is this thing about comics and covers of books also sell books in the title of the books also sell books.
[00:46:25] Speaker B: They're front facing if they're from the front facing.
[00:46:28] Speaker A: But if you're the have this whole.
[00:46:29] Speaker B: Thing of like, what are they going to front face and what are they going to put on the.
[00:46:33] Speaker A: Sometimes they do the ones that look good and some of the times they don't. But. But yeah, it's one of those things that, you know, in having your partnership and you're in your. In your team, create a team, all work together cohesively on something and making sure that, hey, if someone buys this first issue, hopefully they'll buy issue 2 and 3 and 4 and 5 and let's. Let's do this and. And your variant covers for issues one and are also grabbing you in and convey a similar aesthetic to it, but different art styles, which is really cool.
[00:46:57] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And I think it shows that you and your creative team are thinking about the story and what, you know, what you want to convey to. You know, I've always been just so passionate and thoughtful about the story I'm making. I know that there are some creators out there that will hand off script and move on and they're done. I always like to collaborate and geek out with my artists about, you know, the layouts and the choices that we're making about the color schemes and what we're doing just to try to, you know, amplify the emotion at every turn, you know, and there's some people that let the editors run covers and sometimes you get an editor that totally understands covers and they kill it, you know. But I just love to be thoughtful about it and say, I understand this series and here's what we want people to take away with this and this is what we need the COVID to convey and the. And the. And the design to convey and the logo and the title and everything.
[00:47:59] Speaker A: So yeah, I mean independent comics creator, own comics. It's attached to your name like it's a Kaplan name. You know, you know you have on this one, you have she is name. So you have people's names are attached to these things. It takes you a long time in the big two to be synonymous with Wolverine or X Men or something like that. Like, oh yeah, there's definitely people who, who have a bigger name who have been like, oh, they wrote X Men before or whatever. But there's, there's, you know, there's people who are like, that's the X Men writer or X Men, right? Or sorry, artist for independent comics. You have a five issue miniseries. This is your name that's going on it too. This is how people are getting to know you. This is how you're being known.
So being very thoughtful and very, you know, methodical in making sure that this book is perfect is very important because again, in the future it's like, oh, Zach, you're the one that did that comic with the hideous logo.
[00:48:52] Speaker B: Sorry about that one.
[00:48:54] Speaker A: It's your name. It's not like I said, people in the, in the long run will buy Wolverine stories forever because it's Wolverine. So you have to try to convince people who don't know you or don't know the story to buy your book.
The easiest thing about that is make it look good because that's the first that we have eyes. That's what the first thing we're going to see is to see and make it look good. So having a name, having a cover, a cover b, whatever, all look really good. And then you open the book up and go, yeah, this is a badass story.
[00:49:22] Speaker B: And work with amazing artists who, who, who bring the story to life in, you know, incredible ways. Yeah.
[00:49:28] Speaker A: Yes. It's so cool. So, so you have Kill All Immortals is available in trade right now, which.
[00:49:33] Speaker B: Right now it just been out for a few weeks. So you can get it go to.
[00:49:37] Speaker A: Your local comic shop, go to your bookstore, go to your library and request it at the library so they can get it. There's.
It's really exciting to have that out there and get yourself prepared. Read it 1, 2, 3 times before October so you can, you can get it in your system.
And then you also got Dark Deputy Void trades also coming out.
[00:49:56] Speaker B: This is a Mad Cave series. It's about black holes with Chris Sheehan, Francisco Segala and Justin Birch of an world and another fantastic team and a gorgeous book. And it's, it's my, it's my most horror Orient leaning book I've done and it's Sci fi Cosmic Horror. It's about a group of scientists that open a microscopic black hole here on Earth. Then they lose control and crazy things come out, including a human being. And it's very much like I said, annihilation arrival, little aliens in there. It's about a psychologist who's a real mess emotionally. And of course she's called on to save the world. And she's clearly not fit too. But her, her estranged husband is one of the scientists and they need someone there right away, no questions asked, who can help them solve this mystery. And so she goes in and they eventually have to go into the, this kind of cosmic storm that's swirling around the, the black hole and figure out how to reverse whatever mystical thing is happening. I got really into, into black holes and the kind of strange quantum phenomenons around them and they're really interesting. And so yeah, we had a lot of fun geeking out on a little bit of the science and creating this kind of fun sci fi adventure that comes out as a full graphic novel in September.
[00:51:20] Speaker A: Okay, yeah. So end of the summer that'll be out too. But then also in the same time you got Masterminds coming out, issue one coming August 27th for Dark Horse comics. So it's very exciting, you know, from now until, you know, the fall for you with this new stuff that's coming out. Plus obviously you can go to the store, you can grab Midnight Shadows, you can grab, you know, beyond Real Mindset if you all those stuff, you want to grab all those things, grab all those things.
Again, it's a mixture of everything. Sci fi, horror, like you mentioned, you get some, you know, secession meets John Wick. That's the biggest, that's amazing description for Kill all the Immortals. So it's exciting. I'm pumped for you and all this stuff and you know, and so I'm a huge Dark Horse fan in general.
I think the company's run really well. I think the people there are awesome. I think that, you know, the books that come out of there are just a stellar, you know, very few misses, if any, are coming out of that publisher. So seeing you have another book there, I was pretty pumped about that too.
[00:52:17] Speaker B: I've had just a great relationship with Dark Horse. It's just been, you know, I've worked with many different publishers and I've had lots of good relationships and good experiences, but I've had a great experience with Dark Horse. Masterminds will be my fourth book. I started with Breakout. Then Midnight Shadows kill all mortals, which is now ongoing into its second arc. And. And now then masterminds. And yeah, it's just been a real. A real great experience. And yeah, really excited to. To be working with them again.
[00:52:50] Speaker A: It's so cool. And so like I said, it makes it easier for me too because I like working with them. So whenever. Yeah, they're doing something around you guys, I'm like, oh, here goes through this. Yeah, that's. It's so awesome. So, yeah, dark, Dark Empty Void comes up this summer from. From Mad Cave. But then you got Kill All Immortals and masterminds over at Dark Horse. So check those out as well as I honestly will. We'll tout the Midnight Shadows forever because that book is amazing. It's also phenomenally beautiful.
It's stunning. So it's gorgeous. Check that out too.
[00:53:19] Speaker B: So good.
[00:53:19] Speaker A: And I've got Beyond Real right here. So you gotta get beyond.
[00:53:21] Speaker B: I see it. Hey, look at that.
Which is also. Which. Also gorgeous. Yeah. If you've heard Beyond Real, just by the way, Beyond Real is drawn by seven different artists, including Jordi Belair, coloring, Fabiana Mascolo, Tony Visula, Vincenzo Riccardi, Liana Kangas, Luana Vecchio, Jorge Corona, Dennis Men here, and Hassan Letters. The whole thing. It's absolutely gorgeous.
[00:53:47] Speaker A: It's beautiful as well. Anything that Liana's part of. I've always been very happy with you.
[00:53:52] Speaker B: He's a superstar. Crazy.
[00:53:53] Speaker A: But it's so much fun talking to you, Zach. I really.
[00:53:56] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:53:56] Speaker A: Coming on and chatting. I'm.
[00:53:58] Speaker B: You know, Justin, I think you.
I think it might have been your pull quote that we used in the Kill all Immortals announcement we just came out of.
[00:54:09] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's on the. It's on the. On the trade.
[00:54:12] Speaker B: Yeah, it's on the trade too. So. Yes. So working hard here. We're telling everybody. You're. We're telling everyone. Listen to Justin. Yeah.
[00:54:21] Speaker A: Yeah, let's do this. Yeah, get it up there. I gotta. I gotta. Come on, guys. I need to pay for the house. Let's go. Let's keep listening to the podcast. No, I'm just here to talk to cool people about cool comics. And. And I don't talk to people that I don't like their books.
It is. I mean, so not saying that the people I haven't talked to, I don't like their books. Right. There are definitely people out there who haven't talked to yet that I do like their books, but this is one of those things that it's not like, well, you know, I get emails from publishers of prose novels and comics who are like, hey, you, any openings on your podcast? And normally they, they tend to text me or email me when I'm like, extremely booked. So I actually don't have space, but normally I'm like, no, I'm gonna reach out to the people I really want to talk to because I, I, A, I enjoy talking to you, but B, you'll be great stuff. So it's always, you know, we'll keep it, we'll keep it going. So next time we have something out, we'll. We'll chat again.
[00:55:07] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:55:08] Speaker A: We'll make this happen. But I'm excited. People need to read.
[00:55:12] Speaker B: I'll be back next year for the third one.
[00:55:15] Speaker A: I can't wait. We're going to do this. You're going to do, like, John Wick? You're going to keep having him, right? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.
[00:55:20] Speaker B: I mean, spin off. As long. I don't know. We're going to go forever. But it's, it's a big world. It's a bigger opportunity. We got a, we got a character that just seems to have a lot of story to tell. And I actually just feel like there's an appetite for longer form, ongoing storytelling of action heroes. I just don't, you know, you know, you can get that stuff in Marvel and dc, but there's not a lot of it. There's some, I mean, there's plenty. You got your Transformers and your GI Joes and your stuff like that, but those are IP franchises in terms of, you know, we're not going to be the next Invincible, but I think there's an appetite for more stories like that. And so we're hoping to have Kill All Immortals be a bit of a boutique opportunity to have an action hero that you can relate to, connect to, come watch Kick Ass and come back to. From arc to arc a little bit. So I don't know how, I don't know how far we're going to go, but we're excited to take another round and take another lap, so.
[00:56:21] Speaker A: And I hope people, like I said, people need to read it. It's a phenomenal story and great artwork and it's just, you know, Volume two is coming this fall and we're excited for it, so. But, Zach, thank you so much for coming on.
[00:56:30] Speaker B: Thank you, Justin, so much more.
[00:56:32] Speaker A: We'll have you on again in the future, but, yeah, thank you.
[00:56:34] Speaker B: Thank you, Sam.
