Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to the Capes and Tights podcast right here on Capesandtights.com I'm your host, Justin Soderbergh. Once again, this episode is brought to you by our friends over at Galactic Comics and Collectibles at Collective Comics and collectibles dot com. But this episode we welcome Aaron B. Koontz to the program who is a filmmaker and the CEO of a company called Paper Street Pictures. He is a producer, writer, director of movies like the Pale Door, the Scare Package franchise, Camera Obscura. He's also the producer of movies like Old man, the Artifice Girl, Shelby Oakes. And he, along with his buddy Luke Boyce, created Revival, the TV series for Syfy, which is based on the comic book series by Tim Seeley and Mike Norton over at Image Comics. So we discussed the Revival series a little bit about Aaron's background in film and video games.
In this episode, we talk about Revival, though, so check out this episode. But before you do, follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Blue Blue sky threads, all those places. You can rate reviews. Subscribe to the podcast over on Spotify or Apple or wherever you find your podcasts. You can also find us on YouTube and as always, you can visit capesandtice.com for so much more. But this is Aaron B. Koontz, filmmaker, showrunner of TV series Revival on Sci Fi. Enjoy, everyone.
Welcome to the podcast. Aaron, how are you today?
[00:01:25] Speaker B: Hey, I'm good. Thanks for having me.
[00:01:27] Speaker A: Absolutely. It's a pleasure to have you here on the podcast. Big fan of the show, but also a big fan of the comic book revival. So it's a big thing. When I heard the sci fi news about it being made into a show or actually getting picked up, I was like, oh, my gosh, I cannot wait. But, yeah, so we're here to chat about that too. Revival and stuff like that. But you went to film school, you worked in the video game industry for a little while, and now, now you're in films again.
What made you just touch on the. What made you want to make films for a living or things on screen for a living? What struck a chord? What made this happen?
[00:02:04] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, Jaws, honestly, I don't. I mean, like, it's pretty. I have like a Jaws tattoo.
[00:02:09] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:02:10] Speaker B: I mean, it's.
My mom had a book or my aunt had a book, and that was like, you know, behind the scenes stuff on Jaws and with all these photos and stuff. And I remember understanding that, okay, this was like in the water. But I was like, I couldn't understand how, like, was there a camera in the water? Like, I knew there was a camera, and I knew that they weren't real, but there was, like, a. Some level of disconnect. And then I saw this picture of this guy posing with, like, the shark Jaws, and then, you know, with a megaphone and. And all this. And I'm like, who is that? You know, and like, well, that's who makes the movie. That's the person who's, like, you know, wrote and directed all this. And I was like, oh, wow. So there's like a. There's like, a person behind this. There's a vision behind this. And I wanted to be them. So immediately it was Spielberg and those types of, like, you know, splendor and big, you know, Amblin properties were what really got me so excited or I guess became Amblin later. But, like, it was.
You know, there was just. And I always was a little bit of a storyteller. I mean, I remember getting coloring books, and they would tell you how to color, and then I would get in trouble because, you know, when this is, like, grade school stuff, and, like, I would color them different or, like, put them, like, in a graveyard and put, like, weird, spooky things or put it in, like, a fantasy world. You know, I was obsessed with Lord of the Rings and, you know, all that stuff growing up, too.
You know, Lion, Witch of the Wardrobe, and so the CSLO stuff, like, all those books and everything, just really. In the animated Hobbit movie were just, like, all big influences on me. And.
And I just love being transported into, like, a different world, so. And wrote shorts, you know, short stories, a little poetry and stuff as a kid. So it was always kind of a little bit in my DNA and. But I still never really believed that I could be a filmmaker for the longest time. And, you know, went to school for totally different stuff initially.
And then, you know, I just was not happy and unfulfilled, and I was like, okay, there's this chance. There was a. There's a film school that was local. And I was like, let's just give it. Give it a shot. And I had a couple friends who were pushing me along as well, and we decided to go at it, and we went to full sail.
And it was the first time I was really on a set and understood set protocol. And it was like a drug. I just couldn't get enough of it. And to the point where I would volunteer on all the student films so I could be on everybody else's set and I would Paint the walls or do anything, whatever they wanted just so I could be on their sets as well.
So it just was something that kind of scratched an itch that I never really knew I had to that level, you know. And yeah, the video game industry, whole other thing, the film industry in Florida at the time was really tough. And yeah, I took a temp job in the game industry and then that became a career, you know. And you know, I was editing commercials for them at one point because it was kind of adjacent. And then I went into like the corporate quality assurance and customer service world and did that and yeah, worked for thq, you know, Volition, like Saints Row, Red Faction. Worked at EA for a number of years, you know, and had a lot of fun and enjoyed doing that. But it wasn't movies, you know, it wasn't film, wasn't tv.
So was always kind of like itching to get back into it somehow.
[00:05:33] Speaker A: When I read online that you went to Full Sail, it brought me back in 04. I graduated high school in 2004 and then at 2002, 2003, 2004, that time I so badly wanted to go to Full Sail. It was like the dream because I took film classes in school, but like the ones that were just like in high school, luckily enough, my film class teacher in high school was Carlene Hirsch, who was the screens director on Pet Sematary. And so I live in Maine and so obviously I live actually in Bangor, Maine, which is where Stephen King is from. So like all of that connection, I was like, oh my gosh, I want to do this. Never ended up doing it. So I was like. So I was like, oh, I'm so happy like to talk to someone who's like, oh yeah, they actually did what they wanted to do and go to Full Sail.
[00:06:12] Speaker B: And that's when I went. Yes, that's the time period that I went to. Yeah, yeah, but it was crazy.
[00:06:16] Speaker A: It's pretty crazy. I was like, oh, that's amazing. But yeah, it's a, you know, talking to people who make the make things. So you have movies or comics or books or whatever it may be the passion behind it. And it's funny how you had that little bit of a detour again adjacent at moments doing video game stuff.
But if you look back and you think if I tell my son, who's four, what you do, he'd probably be like, that is amazing. Whether it be video games or filmmaking or anything like that. So like you are living a lot of people's dreams. You mentioned you've been busy recently and stuff like that. Obviously your show revival is on TV right now, so it's a busy thing. It's a lot of work. But you must be. It's one of those things that. Do you ever like sit back and just like kind of pinch me moments where you're like, I'm doing what I really want to do?
[00:07:00] Speaker B: No, absolutely. And to be clear, this is, this is my dream. You know what I mean? 100%. And you know, I, I think about that, I think about 4 year old me and, and you know, I've recently had some loss in my family and, and it allows you to reflect on the journey, you know, and, and who, you know and, and you know, the loves in your life and the people that you care about and, and what's important and you know, it's, I'm, I'm so lucky to get to do the thing that I, you know, I don't believe in fail and stuff like that or whatever and all that. But I know this is the thing I was kind of meant to do if that makes sense. Like it just feels so right. I've never, you know, I worked in the corporate world for so long and, and I like my time at the game industry. Don't get me wrong, I'm still creative and there's amazing, amazing creatives in the game industry. But it wasn't exactly my dream, you know, it was still like you said adjacent and then the tech industry was just soul sucking and awful and you know, and, and like I didn't care how much money they were trying to offer me or whatever. Like none of that was going to matter, you know, but it was. But yeah, there is something about, you know, I've now made 25 or so features. I've directed for my own. I've got my own TV series, you know, alongside my creative partner Luke Boyce there. And like it's just, I'm really lucky, you know, I'm really, really lucky. But within that I know I've also, every day I wake up like thinking how can I move something forward today? And, and you know, and I've done this like outside of the system. I don't have, you know, I didn't have a rich family that was helping me. I, I'm. There's no Nepo baby stuff going on here. Even though Koontz, I wish my dad was Dean. It's like, dear God, that would be so much cooler.
But you know, none of that stuff happened and I don't. You didn't have an agent, manager, any of that stuff. It was just me figuring out a way to get stuff made at a time where nobody says they can get anything made and take a lot of pride in, like, what we've created and what we've done. But it's been hard, and it continues to be hard, but it is still when you make something and you see it resonating with people, like, you have this, like, weird idea, you know, at some random place, and. And I'm writing down some like, okay, I don't know if this is funny. I don't know if this is going to work. And then years later, someone you don't know never met is crying or laughing or reacting. It is. There's something so fulfilling about that. And remembering the tough times when I was a kid when my escape was to watch the show, the movie, the thing. And now maybe I'm giving that to some others is. Is. I mean, come on, there's nothing cooler. And so, yeah, I try to take the. Take the time to, you know, smell the roses, if you will, because it's. It's good. And they smell damn good.
[00:09:46] Speaker A: They do. I mean, so. So Revival is, like, the main reason we're here to talk to you. I just like the idea of talking a little bit about, you know, how you got where you are. I mean, how did.
Did you read Revival as a comic prior? I know you worked. You were a producer on Revealer with. With Tim Seely and obviously Michael Morrissey, who wrote on Revival, The TV show as well, also works comic breaks, comic books and things like that. And obviously your creative partner there, Luke, worked on that book too. But did you know Tim before? Did you read the comics? Like, how did you, Aaron, come on to work on Revival, the TV show?
[00:10:22] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, well, it was really through that movie Revealer, you know, so I knew who Tim Seeley was. I was very familiar with Hack Slash, so I love Hack Slash. Definitely knew that. And horror comics, I mean, just horror in general. I'm just a horror aficionado. Like, it's my thing. I'm an advocate for horror. You know, I get really upset when people call things like, you know, know, elevated horror, and I'm like, what the. That's like. There's no elevated drama or elevated comedy. Right. Like, it's. Why does it need to be elevated? It's already.
[00:10:47] Speaker A: Exactly. It's.
[00:10:48] Speaker B: Anyway, sorry. Ran over. But I just love horror, and. And so I helped out on Revealer as a producer. This was. But this was, like, early in 2020, when the pandemic was like, at its peak. It was actually one of the first movies that was made during the. During the Pandemic. And I. So I wasn't on set with. With Luke or I didn't get to meet Tim.
I just was someone that the other producers were like, hey, we want some help getting this going. And, you know, can you. Another producer with experience to help this and sell the film and stuff like that and get involved? And I did. And then in post production of that, now this gets to. To revival, I promise, in post production of that, I was giving notes to Luke Boyce, who's the director, and again, we had not met in person, and I was really worried about, oh, my God, this guy's gonna hate me. Like, I'm just coming in like some quote unquote producer dude, telling him all the. That I want him to change. And he just was so willing and understanding and. And patient, and we were able to talk through everything, and we just kind of hit it off. There just was a kinship. Like, we spoke the same cinematic language, all the same references. He had, I had. And then we. The more we dove into this, the more we realized, like, how similar our paths are and our backgrounds and everything and just really became good pals and through that process, you know, And I knew Tim wrote on it, right, and had met with him, but not. We. Again, we hadn't talked, you know, about other properties or anything. I'm just off making movies, you know, that's really what. What I. What I'm there doing. Luke and Tim had the. They had. They had partnered to try to make Revival as a movie, and they were just getting out everywhere. In fact, there even was an announcement of a movie like, five, six years ago, if people really recall. And. And that was through Luke and Tim and what they were doing. And he's like, look, man, I'm stuck. You get all these movies made. And then Tim was so elated because not only did we get Revealer made, but then I sold it to shudder and it got out there, you know, and all this stuff, and he's like, oh, my God, I wrote a thing and someone actually did something with it. Like, that never happens. You know, it's a lot of promises that are broken, you know, especially with a lot of. A lot of comic. Comic creators. And so he's like, yeah, man, like, if you want to take a swing at this, you know, we would love for you to look at it. And I was like, okay, yeah, yeah, man, this is a cool. And I'd Heard of the comic, had not read it.
So Luke sent me the comics, and. And I was like, okay, let me. And I'm. I'm making, like, multiple movies at the same time and super busy, and I'm just like, I don't know. We'll see. But this is. This would be cool. Like, I really like these guys. And then I read that first issue, and I was completely hooked. I was like, what the hell? I did not see the twist coming at all. Uh, and. And I'm like, you know, and then. And also, you know, there's, like, aliens and stuff, and I'm like, what is going on? Like, I mean, this is, like, crazy shit, you know, at least what I at the time thought were aliens. And. And. And so it was. So.
It just. It just immersed me, and it was such an interesting world, this rural noir. Azores is dying. There's poetry, weird Fargo characters. I'm just like, man, this is cool. But it's also. The scope is way beyond. Yeah.
A movie, you know, and so I. I was like, guys, like, I think number one, I like it, love it.
Number two, I absolutely want to make it. But it. I think this is the pilot of a TV show and not, you know, not a movie. And they had explored that a little bit in the past, but not, like, fully, you know, gone. Gone all in.
And they were all about it. Love the idea, you know? And then they're like, so have you made TV before? And I'm like, nope.
You know, I've done none of this. But I'm also the kind of person that. That is just exciting to me, you know? Like, I'm again, like, no agent, no manager, not in Hollywood, no anyone. Like, all right, I'll figure it out. Like, I've sold a lot of movies, and the people that buy some movies that I have the department next to them or the door next to them, they. They sell, so maybe they can tell me someone or whatever. And, you know, so we just started. I was like, I'll start pitching and figuring it out. And then the big hook for me there as well, on top of that was not only do I want to sell this show and help kind of create it and produce it, I want to be the co creator. And I was like, luke, I want you and I to do this together. And Luke was always worried that he wasn't gonna be able to be a showrunner and all this. And I was like, no, man, we're gonna do this together. Like, I think we. We get along. I could work with you. I Think this will work? Let's do it. You and I, showrunners, you know. And he's like, well, they're not gonna allow us to be showrunners. Like, no one. I was like, ah, we'll see, you know, And. And I just held my ground when people said no. I was like, well, you know, we had multiple people who said, well, we're interested, but you bring in an experienced showrunner and all this stuff. And I was like, no, no, I'll meet with them, but this is gonna be Luke and my show. Yes, that's what we're gonna do. And, you know, thankfully, the relationships I had developed, the feature side and the people that I had known, and there's a whole other story related to that of actually who ended up buying it and why.
But. But was really fun. And. And it actually was a pretty quick yes from the NBC folks, so. Which was really exciting. HBO also was very interested, but they just had True Detective, Night Country.
[00:15:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:54] Speaker B: Which they thought was a little too similar. Mary of East Town as well, was a little similar, just not the supernatural twist. And. But. But. But. Yeah, but then when. And also amc, we talked to. Talked to a number of people, but Sci fi and NBC knew the product, knew the. Knew the comic.
NBC actually owned the rights to revival, like, 10 years ago. And then when some show like the Returned or whatever happened, they, like, you know, canceled and said no.
And I'm like, well, this is. We're nothing like that. Like, that's just like, who cares? Like, that's. Yes, there's zombies that are normal, but that's it, you know? And, like, there's glitch and there's great shows that have done that, but it's no different. Like, it's so weird. People are like, oh, I've seen this before. I'm like, have you seen a zombie show before? Like. Like, there's a million zombie shows.
[00:16:37] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:16:38] Speaker B: You know, but no one's like, like, you know, you watch 20 years later, and you're like, well, I've seen Not a Living Dead, and I've seen Walking Dead, and I'm like, no, they all exist in their own world. Anyway. Sorry, I digress.
[00:16:49] Speaker A: No, it's true.
[00:16:50] Speaker B: But that's where it came from. Yeah, it's.
[00:16:52] Speaker A: It's true. Because I was trying to. I try to explain it to people. We just read the. So I've read it many times. Like, three or four times. I own Deluxe, like, hardcover, like, books.
And so I loved it for a long time. And so we read it for My book club at my local comic book shop last month. And mainly because the premiere was coming and I was like, if you guys all read it in the first two weeks of the month, we don't meet until the last week of the month. But then you'll get two episodes you can watch on the TV show and we can have a conversation about adaptations and all that stuff. And so a lot of people did.
And so trying to explain it to them, though. I was like, trying to explain it to me, like, it's ruined the Wire, but it's got zombies. But they're not really zombies. Well, they kind of are zombies. And I'm like, if you look up the definition of a zombie, it kind of. And so it's like this weird. But to me, it was unique.
And to me, you know, hearing that Sci Fi was the network that it was going to be on also made it unique in that sense, because I felt like I've always wanted to see it on something. Like, you know, I've wanted to see that. I've wanted to see Nail Biter, a couple other great comics I want to see on tv, but I've always pictured them as like HBO or Netflix or these places where you can do whatever you want. Like, you can go to the extreme a little bit further.
But then I'm talking to myself.
The first number of seasons of Walking Dead were amazing. And it was on cable television, it was on amc.
So you can do this without having to go to the extreme. And so I liked seeing it on NBC or Sci Fi as well. I also love the fact that it's week to week. That, to me, is great because I can have those conversations with people in between, like we used to be able to do back in the day. We're like, what do you think's gonna happen?
This is what's gonna, you know, instead of being like, oh, I've seen the whole show, and then someone's like, well, I've only seen the first two episodes, or I've seen half of the episodes or whatever. You know, I've been able to see and have conversations with people who have, you know, talked into watching the show, say, hey, you've really seen this show. Like, oh, what's going to happen? That's fun. And that's why I'm glad. Where it ended up. Where it ended up is because it makes it different. It makes it more approachable for some people.
[00:18:47] Speaker B: Oh, I love that. I love that. Yeah. One of my favorite things used to be when I worked in tech, I think it was at the game industry at the time, and Lost was on week to week and me being wrong every week about everything that was happening in Lost. Like, I had so much fun thinking, like, oh, I have it all figured out, and it's this. And I was wrong every time. Every single time. And that's. That was fun, you know, and we thought about that once we realized it was going to be week to week in ad breaks. It's a thing to have ad breaks, too. But I was like, oh, I can play with those, you know, and look, there's pros and cons that come with sci fi. Like, I'm not going to lie, right? Like, you know, don't get me wrong.
Love you, Sci Fi, if you listen to this. But, like, I probably would have preferred HBO to pick it up. A lot more money, a lot more time and what this is. But at the same time, those restrictions breed creativity. They kind of force you to have to think about the show a little bit differently and also, like, streamline the things. Like, I actually think if it was just Netflix right off the bat or, you know, HBO or whatnot, I might have been given a little bit of too much rope to hang myself with. I really start to think it because there were so many stories I wanted to tell. And I think this is already a very dense story, both within the comic and then what we've done, and because we've added story lines but also removed storylines. But, like, the way we've. We've kind of, like, tried to try to navigate this, I think it. It could have been too much.
I think it could have been too much. But these restrictions, like, forced us to be like, well, I got to just focus on the sisters, you know, like, this is what it's got to be about. And I think. And we knew that. We knew the story was still going to be central to that, whether. Wherever it ended up, but really had to streamline, you know, in order to do this in 40, 41 minutes, you know, is what you have. Total, right? So with, you know, you've got outbreaks and stuff, but, like, that's it.
[00:20:30] Speaker A: And, you know, like, the Duffer brothers are getting two and a half hours for an episode, like on the next.
[00:20:34] Speaker B: Stranger Things five years and whatever. But that's, you know, good for Ross.
[00:20:38] Speaker A: No, no, I'm just. I just. I saw the thing. I'm like, we got eight or eight movies coming up here pretty soon.
[00:20:43] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[00:20:44] Speaker A: Films. But yeah, it is to condense it into 41 minutes and have those commercial or the breaks. And they're not just breaks in the middle of things. And, and my wife said about that about the Stranger Things thing, like, shouldn't they just.
And a half or two hour episode, make it to an hour episode, something. But that's, that's a writing process in there. That's a strategic process in that like maybe they didn't feel like it felt like it could break up at that point. Like there's no natural break or so you have to kind of write those in too. Right. I mean, it's the same thing with like, I feel like with writing a comic and having to have the surprise be on the next page, you know, because you can't have it in the middle of the page because you eyes immediately just go to that and go, oh, so and so dies. That's pretty cool. You have to have almost the deaths or the surprises on the next page so that you open up and has that or jump scares in horror comics or whatever it may be. So yeah, there is a, there is a science to, you know, a sci fi show versus something that's on HBO where like, yeah, that episode could be an hour and 15 minutes if you want. You know, it doesn't really matter. Or it can be 20. I've watched streaming shows where it's like one episode is 35 minutes and the next one's an hour and 15.
[00:21:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:41] Speaker A: So it does have that, you know, difference in making a TV show. But like I said, I felt like it was almost more og More like how I used to watch TV like you mentioned with Lost and things like that, like, but also discussing it with having source material and so like I could even go in from episodes one to two or two to three and feel like I know what the hell is going on.
But I credit you guys because I was just discussing with a buddy of mine about how I don't like word for word adaptations.
Like if you watch Harry Potter and then read the book, the first three movies and first three books are like, there's like entire paragraphs that are read on screen and you know what I mean? So like you're like, it's almost like word for word at moments. Whereas I'd rather have your. You and Luke and all, you know, your adaptation of what you feel like should be on screen, what Tim, you know, and Mike maybe missed. Or you want to do it slightly different on screen. Because I want a new experience.
I want the core to be there, but I want to see how someone else's mind and I'm Guessing Tim is similar in that he wants the property on tv, but he also probably wanted your take on it. Not just take my comic book and make it into a TV show. So it's been working. I appreciate that. But like I said, I could go week to week and be like, I know what the hell is going to happen. Then I'm like, actually, I don't, I know the thread, but I don't really know what's going to happen in the season finale for an example. And so I have that, like, cockiness going into talking to a friend who hasn't read the comic. And they're like, you're wrong. I'm like, God damn it.
[00:23:15] Speaker B: Oh, that's funny. Well, and that's. But I will say that was deliberate, you know, and look, and Tim has been involved. Tim and Mike, they both came to set, they joined a writer's room. You know, everything was. Even when we were really kind of, you know, diverge, we would, we would kind of talk with him and just say, hey, like, we're thinking about going this direction. Like, how does this feel? And he's like, oh, man, that's awesome. Like, I wish we could have done that or I wish we did that, you know, which was fun. And then on the flip side, there's also things that, you know, are in the comic, but like, scope wise are just below the entire budget because they're just drawing a panel.
[00:23:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:23:48] Speaker B: You know, and I'm like, I can't have a hundred trucks and flipped over and, you know, all this stuff. So, like, it's, it's. You have to figure out those, those ways to kind of manage it. But look, I, I appreciate you saying that because it was important in that we, we love the material so much, but then at the same time also want to give you a new experience. Exactly what you were saying. Like, we want someone to be able to, like, I think I know where it's going. And then we know what you expect it to be from the comic. So then we want to. There are many times we will set something up where it's like, oh, this is this thing. And then you're talking to your partner like, I read the comic, they're going to do this thing. And then it starts to move that way and then as soon as it gets there, then it zigs when you think zag. And it's like, wait, what I thought, you know, and like, well, that's not how I remember that or whatever. But hopefully in an enjoyable way, you know, that keeps you like oh, now I see how this comes together. Or no, here's this storyline that I didn't realize was that. And how we combine characters or change things. I mean, the biggest character we changed was Blaine, which was a lot of fun in the comic, but there's still a lot of Blaine from the comic in there. You know, I don't know if he listens to Limp Bizkit anymore, but I'll have to think about that.
But I think it was. Once we got Steven Ogg, you know, like, it was kind of. We wanted to kind of create this more of like a Nick Cave kind of culture style thing and not be quite as redneck.
[00:25:11] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:11] Speaker B: You know, in what's there. But. But it was still. It's fun to. To think about that. And it was nice because, you know, Luke was so close to the comic. And then I came in. I had just read the comic, so. And we're jumping in and we're adapting, so it kind of allowed this. Nice.
Like, where I'm maybe pushing us more to go a more unique direction and looks like, oh, don't forget about this. And I'm like, oh, yeah, we gotta work. That's a perfect thing to work in. And, you know, and we planned the season and Luke and I did this for, you know, years, really, two years after we. I pitched it and NBC wanted it, but then the strikes happened and all these things happened, so it was just so much. So Luke and I would just kind of like privately meet and talk about ideas, but we took all these moments from the comic and kind of put them up on a board of like, well, we can't. We can't adapt this and not do this. We can't adapt this and not do this. You know, and these things, other than the first issue, which is very. The. The first episode. First issue are very close.
[00:26:08] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:26:09] Speaker B: We knew we were gonna end that on Don't Tell Dad.
[00:26:11] Speaker A: Oh, my God. But beyond Aaron, you. It was one of the happiest moments I've had in a long time. Like, you could see it coming from a mile away because you've read the comic book, but. And then also the episode's called Don't Tell dad, too. So that, you know. So I was trying to tell people who hadn't seen the show yet. I'm like, you need. It's amazing. I'm trying. I'm going to spoil this because. But the episode's called this, so I can't really spoil it. And, like, it's like when she says, don't tell That I literally audibly yelled in my house. My wife was like, are you okay? I'm like, it's that time when, like, you know, if they would have said revival, like, or, you know, like, when they say revive something on, and you say, like, oh, they said the name of the book or whatever. I was just like, oh, my God, they did it. I'm so glad. They adapted it perfectly in that sense. But, yes, go.
[00:26:49] Speaker B: Well, that's credit. That's just credit to what, Tim and Mikey.
[00:26:52] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:26:52] Speaker B: Right.
[00:26:52] Speaker A: I mean, don't tell dad. I'm like, it's a way to end the episode.
[00:26:56] Speaker B: It's perfect. And there was one. I remember, like, there was one draft when they were talking, and it didn't end on those words. And I was like, it's. We're out on Joe till death. We're not going anywhere else. That is the moment. Get out. Big needle drop. Swell. Yeah. You know, we got that Mop of the Flame song, which is a song I love. And. And, like, just. Just have something that. That you. You know, you're like, wait, what? And then that. That set up. Really Don't Tell dad set up for us a structure where I was like, well, if this is gonna work, like, I want Don't Tell dad at the end of every episode. Yeah, like, that was kind of like a goal, and. And not to just be like, oh, a twist, you know, but. And pull the rug, but. But more so just to set up a.
A bit of a cliffhanger, knowing that it's week to week, so that the. Hopefully the goal is like, oh, I wish I could just binge this right now, you know, and to feel that. And so, I mean, we were. Look, Luke and I both are ocd, and so, I mean, I. And I have no qualms with admitting this. Like, I went through and watched every pilot of, like, every show and just wrote down, like, when things happen, how I felt. And then other similar shows with, like, you know, Fargo, Stranger Things, Mayor of East Town, you know, Sharp Objects, just, like, a million things. And I would go through.
Watch these episodes and then. And say, okay, here's how I'm feeling, and here's what they're doing at the end. Here's what. Here's who I think the killer is. Here's what I think about this and how they beat up their characters and just learn from the greats, the people who are really great at this. And I started to find, like, a formula that I really thought. I'm like, I think there's. There's a way to do this without it feeling paid by numbers and feeling like I've just seen this before. And then once you know the formula, then it's, then you're able to say, okay, now here's what people are going to feel, they're going to be expecting. And then here's how I can, I can, you know, pull, pull, then I can really pull the ruck. And that was a lot of fun and very specifically constructed, you know, with a real purpose in mind. You know, like I reference Lost and I know what people get frustrated about loss was some, some meandering and things that had happened and not necessarily knowing where the ending was going to be. I still love the ending, but I understand where that frustration is. The same thing with like the new Star wars films and stuff like that, where it's like I gotta feel like where they're going. And, and I'm like, we're not gonna do that. We're not gonna just be a mystery box. Even though I love J.J. abrams mystery box idea.
But, but we're going, we know what's in the mystery box and we are going to show you at some point. Right? And what's there. And in each season too. I also get frustrated when a season ends and I'm like, but I still don't know this.
And I'm like, you can't, I can't wait another season for that. Right. And I literally will get frustrated. And so I, you know, we think about that and we, we want to ask a big question and answer a big question every season. I think that's very vital to us.
[00:29:55] Speaker A: And you want at least a little bit of a thread to be able to potentially connect the seasons together to make you want that next season.
So for my book club, for a comic book store, we read a lot of five issue miniseries that become trade paperbacks. And so that has a beginning, middle. That's the story you don't have anymore. Yes, sometimes they're sequels, they expand on things and so on and so forth. But the fifth issue completes the story and so you're done with it, you can move on and so on and so forth. So in the 12 months that 12 books a year, I would say nine or 10 of them are like that. So it's like people are just expecting this clean finish ending. And when we read the first trade paperback for Revival, the first five issues, there's a lot of unexplained stuff. But, but, but Tim and Mike went into this for, for the long haul. This was A. This is a long ongoing series, so they can't just wrap everything up in the first thing, but they wrapped up enough, in my opinion. And so I think that's what you're hoping for, I'm guessing, in the season is wrap up enough, have that whole story, but also leave a little bit of open things so that I want to watch the next season.
You don't want to end day going, yeah, I could take it or leave it.
[00:30:57] Speaker B: I don't.
[00:30:57] Speaker A: There's nothing open. There's no open ending. You know, like, you want to have that and maybe just. Just the experience itself, the way the show is made, the way the show is written, maybe that tells it enough. But, yeah, there's too many times where I've watched TV shows, too, that were canceled that at the end of that, you're like, God damn it, I don't know what the hell happened after the show.
[00:31:16] Speaker B: Well, that's the thing. I mean. Well, and that's where. And look, I understand we're on Sci Fi. Yeah.
So I know what that means. I know what that means. And so, so much of this was understanding the audience's expectations of what this is. So it was important to me that when you get to. It's 10 episode series, when you get the end of episode 10, you're like, oh, my God, I got some pretty big answers that are here. But then at the same time, exactly what you said we have.
Because we've streamlined a big story, you know, here, a couple big stories of the comic into these. These 10 episodes. But then at the same time, have pulled back there because there's so many side quests, as I would call, you know, like, Dana goes to New York and there's Amish ninjas. I mean, like, there's so much that goes on that that's. And unfortunately, there's no Amish ninjas in season one.
But. But you're. You're. Because of that, there's so much we can go to, but I think there's a way to streamline a core story. And then also, we've had a lot of discussions with Tim in particular, who had ideas of where he wanted the story to continue going that we are now kind of implementing and playing with. So. So that allows us to. We have access to beyond the 47 issues, which is really fun to think about what that setup is going to be and how that goes. But, yeah, I mean, it's. It's just important to me that. Because there are people who, like, I'm not going to wait Until I know there's a season two, I'm not even gonna watch. And people say that kind of. And I'm like, man, that's the reason why you don't get a season two number one. But.
But beyond that, what I can say is what we have is going to have a beginning, middle, and end in this season while still making you want more. And I think we were able to toe that line. I'm very proud of. Of how we constructed that, but it was very meticulous in the way that we put that together.
[00:33:01] Speaker A: Does. Does it make it harder or easier, or does it really matter? Being an adaptation versus, like, original creation, like, you have material you can go to. So if you're like, I'm stumped. Where do I go next? Or, how do I do this? Or, I don't know what to do next. You have something you can fall back on, but also you have to stick to something to. To pay the original source material a little bit of respect in that it's adaptation. Does it make it harder, easier? Is it nice? I mean, is this. I mean, guessing, looking back in your, you know, history of making movies, is this your first adaptation of something like this, or is it goodness, like, not a comic Specific.
[00:33:38] Speaker B: Okay, I think it is. I think it's my first adaptation. I have to. Have to actually get a lot of stuff, but as a writer, it is.
[00:33:46] Speaker A: Yes, it is.
[00:33:46] Speaker B: And I mean, I'll say. I think that that's just. It is all dependent on the material. Because if it's. If the material, like, there's stuff. And I've, you know, I've taken meetings where they want me to, like, hey, here's a book or a podcast or a thing, and make something on it. And I'm like, oh, my God, like, this thing's awful. You know, like, I don't want to. Like, I'd have to redo. I guess I could keep this idea.
[00:34:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:34:08] Speaker B: And then do a whole thing. And then you're. Then you're struggling to. Because it's pain to try to bring in those. Those things again, that this is the opposite. I mean, here we are. All we want to do is, like, you know, and keep in mind, they're also, as. You know, they're just different mediums. You know, so there's things that, like, between the panels, if you will, that we would talk about that. I want to have character moments and have those times with the actors to kind of feel and let them breathe and in certain things. And there's also other things that I want to see. And go to. And dive and kind of like, deep dive into that. Maybe the comic didn't.
Because you need to connect a little differently when you're watching this on TV than you do, you know, flipping pages.
[00:34:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:34:50] Speaker B: So. But no, I think it was a wonderful experience because whenever we just had. We had such a good core story to keep, like, using as a crutch to, like, go back to. So if we're like, oh, we kind of. And Luke and I would talk about this all the time, like, let's write ourselves into a corner. Like, what is the toughest spot for Dana to get out of?
[00:35:12] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:35:12] Speaker B: And then force us to get out of that corner, too. Which is. Which is fun, like, to have to creatively come out of this. And then. And sometimes it was like, you know, how do we get to. To this big set piece, which is something from the comic that we're now strategizing how to get there. And then it's like, well, how do we get out of this? How do we make it really difficult? And then you have to incorporate something new. Episode 6 of the show without spoiling anything, although that's out now on Sci Fi and Peacock, probably by the time this airs, is a good example of that. People know the comic. It's dealing with the Chuck brothers, big things there. There's a thing that Em does in the comic and what's going on and what's there. And. And we wanted to, like, okay, there's a way to do this. But at the same time, we've added more stakes because now Dana has been shot and some things, and she's not well. And, you know, so we've added all these layers of things to it, and how do they culminate? And then that leads to us doing something new and different in episode six that's not in the comic, but it allows. But. But when we talk to Tim about it, he's like, oh, my God, that makes perfect sense.
[00:36:16] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:17] Speaker B: You know, and so. So it was like, you know, finding ways to kind of massage those and get them to come together. But the. The source material for us, definitely. I mean, it's so good that the only problem, the only frustration I have is fitting all the shit in that.
[00:36:32] Speaker A: I want to say yes.
[00:36:33] Speaker B: I mean, that's it. I'm like, oh, my God, I wish we could have done, like, you know, I'll say, like, we unfortunately don't get into Anders Hein a lot in this season, and I love that story. There's, like, crazy shit that's going on in the Anderson story in the comic book. And so that's something that maybe, you know, season two, we'll. We'll try to incorporate and play with. But there's a. And there's so many more, too. Like, I would love to get that.
[00:36:55] Speaker A: 47 issues of a comic book. So I feel like it's not one of those things. I mean, if you did an episode for each one of them, it's over five seasons at 10 episodes, or almost five seasons at 10 episodes of an issue. Obviously, it doesn't work that way, you know, as some people expect it to. You watch the first episodes, first, you know, first book and so on and so forth. It's not how that works. And I'm glad, again, I got. I'm glad it doesn't do that. Like, it's one of those things that, like, to me, I'm like, I love the story, but, like, if Tim came out and was like, I'm gonna do revival, but I'm gonna change a bunch of things, I'd buy that too, you know, like, yeah, and so, like, I'd buy the issues of comic books again, I would do that. It's. It's a. It's a. I like that. I like the changing of things. The story itself. I meant to Star wars and other things. I'm a huge Star wars fan, good, bad or ugly of a film or a TV show, I'm going to watch it because I want to be more entrenched in that universe. Still, it doesn't matter. I'm still feel like I'm pinching myself going, we still get Star wars stuff. I was born in 86. I felt like at that point we were never getting anything else from Star wars, so.
[00:37:51] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:37:51] Speaker A: Everything else has been bonus, in my opinion.
[00:37:53] Speaker B: So I literally slept on a tent on the side on a sidewalk to see episode one. See, so, like, that was. Yeah, that was me. I mean, 100%. And I get there. And to your point, though, with this as well, like, we deliberately set up again, the first issue to be like the first. First episode. And then. Because that is going to set an expectation for, you know, for all the reasons we've already mentioned, the aforementioned reasons, but also now, the savvy comic reader who knows the series, oh, well, then issue two might not be this. And then. And then you quickly realize, like, that's not what's happening. And so it's like, oh, now I don't know where this is going to go. I thought I knew where it was going to Go. And there might be other issues that are closer to an episode here or there, but that's. That was the fun liberties that we could take where it's like, you don't. We want to keep you guessing whether you've read the comic or not. We want this to still be enjoyable in that way.
[00:38:45] Speaker A: Well, you also mentioned a medium. It's a different medium. So different mediums also tell stories differently. And so like, it might make sense that the fifth issue in this series, you're like, well, there's something that goes on in that one that actually makes more sense on tv to be at the end of season one or episode one or whatever it may be.
As long as you hit a bunch of the points that are important to make, that makes a comic book what it is. I think a lot of us are like, it doesn't really matter if it happens in episode 10 or episode 2. As long as you see some of these things. Like, you know, if your main two characters weren't the main two characters from the book, then okay, then you're kind of going off on a weird path that don't really. I like, but it works that way. And I'm glad that 10 episodes, I think is like one of those great spots nowadays. It doesn't matter how long they are. I feel like that, you know, we have such a short attention span as humans now and there's so much out there that 10 episodes, like, okay, you can commit to 10 episodes. The same thing I always do to people. I'm like, when you write a mini series that are out there, like read a comic book miniseries. It's five issues. You can commit to five issues. People just read the five issues. If you like it, you like it. If you don't, you don't. But yeah, 10 episodes is like, you're not expecting me to get into a 22 episode season, you know, which is. Which is something that is great about modern TV nowadays. It also looks like.
Sounds so bad, but it doesn't look like it belongs in sci fi. Looks much better than what I expected it to look like on Spotify. Not necessarily sci fi, I should say it just when you watch the episodes I'm watching this, I'm going, this is not on tv. This is definitely on a streaming network or something like that, which obviously it is a week later. But you know what I mean, the production value is just up there and the actors are great. The whole just fit perfectly. And I do think that there's probably part of me. I mean, you obviously, you Love it. As a creator of the show, I'm loving it because it's. You're on a property that I really like, and so there's probably a small amount of that. But, like, in general, my wife's never read the comic books and so on and so forth, and she loves it, so it's definitely hitting that stride that it needs to be in.
[00:40:35] Speaker B: Oh, that's. That's so cool. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, well, and to backtrack on a couple of things, some great things there. One is audience expectations and their time. Like, I always think about this, and, you know, even I, as a consumer, many times I'm like, I'll see. I'll watch it when the world tells me to watch.
[00:40:52] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:40:52] Speaker B: You know, like, people are clamoring about it. And now I'm like, oh, my God, I need everybody to watch it right now. Otherwise, we don't know if we're gonna get out of season. So it's like. It's like being in this position now, it changes your purview. But at the same time, I know that's how I think. And I also know that when I will give up on a show, I know where my investment wanes and starts to hit certain points and shows that I started and didn't finish for one reason or another. And so we all of that was something that we just really thought about the audience. Like, it was. You know, we just didn't want to spoon feed this to them. We wanted them to be kind of guessing.
We believe that the audience is more savvy than even a lot of Sci Fi execs might want to admit. You know, we. We just. You know, there were a lot of things that I'm like, no, I believe they're going to get this. I think they're going to understand what it is we're doing, because I get it, and I am the target audience. Like, I'm making a show. Ultimately, Luke and I, we're making a show that we wanted to see that we dug that, that. That not only will be proud of, but a show that we would want to watch.
And so you have to. We're competing with shows that, I mean, literally one episode of our show or one episode of almost any of the shows that are going to be top 10 horror everything and every. Every nominee and all. This would cost more than our entire season. Right. And so, I mean, we made this for, like, literally a fraction. A tenth of what these shows are being made for, minimum. A tenth, some even more. And so when you take that into consideration. It's like, yeah, but nobody cares. Like it's still an hour of someone's time and I have to understand that. So that's what, that's what's up against us. Like, we have to be more engaging, we have to take more time with it. And it's hard. It's really hard. But I, but the hope was again that we're going to reward those who are willing to give us their time and really think about the audience the whole time. Like it's just vital and what's there.
Now, I don't remember your second point, which was also very good and valid. But.
But yeah, it's been, it's still a tricky, it's a tricky line to thread, you know, throughout this.
But, but at the, in the end, you know, we've had, we've had a lot of people and that I think, I think what's happening is the end of the episodes are like getting people. There's a lot of like, WTF moments.
[00:43:16] Speaker A: Like, yes, like what the.
[00:43:17] Speaker B: What's going on here? And that helps, that helps propel us, you know, and what's there. But then. Oh, you're talking about. Sorry, the, the scope and, and just the look and very much. And thank you for bringing that up because that was a big, it was a big deal for us. So, you know, I take a lot of pride in that. We make, you know, lower budget movies that look bigger than they are. So that's, that's part of my expertise and Luke as well and where we come from and then. But we, we really searched for the right DPs, the right lenses, the right gaffer, the right combination of elements to, to make this look different. I mean, like, literally we had. Our lenses had to be individually approved because they have aberrations and things on them that, you know, sci fi is like not used to. They've never allowed. Right. And. And the same, same kind of lenses they did for Shogun and stuff, you know, and things like that. So it's like a very scope. Right? You want to feel that scope. But then we also, our aspect ratio is a different aspect ratio that has ever, in the history of sci fi they've done. And I was told, you can't do it. And I'm like, let me ask them, let me talk to them, you know, and I happen to have known some of those execs for a long time and we were able to kind of push and very, very grateful that they allowed us to do things that no other sci fi show has done, you know, I mean, even the first trailer of the show, we had meetings. I'm like, guys, you gotta scrap it. I want a whole new trailer. You know, and all this. And that was very, very demanding and forceful. But. But they. But I. I kept telling them was like, I'm gonna deliver you a show that is above and beyond the budget you're spending on this show. I promise you that. You gotta trust me and I'll trust you. This is a. Goes two ways here. And. And thankfully they did. And. And I'm very, very grateful because we. Again, we. It looks different on purpose. And that is no knock on any other sci fi show. But I love shadows, I love blacks, I love, you know, our time in the color grade and all these things, which we're still doing, by the way, at color grade tomorrow I gotta do for episode 10, you know, so it's all. We spend a lot of time with. That music, too, is another one that I think can make things feel bigger than it is, is with the right kind of music. And our composers, Lydia Ainsworth and Alex Cuervo, are just magic and, you know, pushing them constantly, you know, to try to go further. So all of that, all those elements come together to allow you to make a show and put the dollars on the screen, if you will.
[00:45:41] Speaker A: Yeah, and I think that's a big thing. I think it's. People are so judgmental nowadays too. That's so easy to just be online, be like, this show looks so bad, you know, or whatever. But, like, I think. And again, I probably have a little skewed opinion on it. Being a big fan of the comic itself and Tim's work and Mike's work.
[00:45:56] Speaker B: But.
[00:45:58] Speaker A: It just looked. It looked like what I wanted it to look like. I look like the level that I wanted this to be at. And my friend Adam Caesar has his Clown of the Cornfield movie recently too.
That movie looks.
[00:46:13] Speaker B: I tried to get the rights to it. I couldn't get it. Eli and them had already had the rights. I tried to get the rights to make it. I wanted to direct it.
[00:46:20] Speaker A: My favorite books of all time. I'm not even joking. It's so good. It's so amazing. And when I saw it on big screen, I'm like, I am so happy. This is what it looks like. And that to me was like, there could have been easily done that someone could have, you know, bought the rights to it. And it just turned it out and made a movie. And it just. It looks so good. The acting is really good. I Think that the same thing here, I think that your cast is phenomenal. I think you got a couple of. Couple of people that nobody knows, but a couple of people that are like, oh my gosh, I can't believe they're in that show. And a couple of stall, you know, veterans of the industry. And I think that mix is really well. And I think that, you know, a lot of people read the comic that I know have appreciated the show so far and are excited. And I do love the idea that it's also like, you can stream it still so you can go on Peacock a week later and see the. See the show. So if you don't have, you know, YouTube TV or any of the, you know, networks or television streaming things like YouTube TV or FUBU, whatever they are out there, that you can actually see these things streaming if you can or need to, it's a great. I think you found. I think you probably agree you found a good spot for it. I think it's a, you know, in having the. The problem is you do so well on a small budget, Aaron, that you're never going to get a big budget. I'm just kidding. They're all going to want you to do it.
You do so well.
[00:47:34] Speaker B: Samir Rahim, who's our Block 2 director, him and I talked about exactly that. He's like, the problem is we did pull it off.
A miracle that we pulled it off, but we did pull it off. And now it's been like, well, they don't need any more money. Here's what they did, you know, in season one. And, you know, and I mean, but, you know, I, I went out of pocket on things. I, I paid for stuff myself sometimes. Like, there were certain shots and things that we needed to do. And, you know, it's. It's just how much you have to believe in the show. And I hope it's the right combination of elements. I mean, we need, you know, we are not renewed for season two. Everybody's like, people are assuming there's a season two because it's doing well and all this. It's not like it is. It is so hard. Is much harder right now to get a season two than ever before.
And so, you know, we're.
Every week counts, every view counts, you know, and. And they just need to see that we're growing and that people are really getting it. And thankfully, the response to episode six, we always kind of knew, you know, episode six was going to be a big deal. And the response to that, I think, is. Is invigorated some people to talk about the show and hopefully bring in some more folks.
But yeah, man, I hope, you know, I hope.
[00:48:41] Speaker A: And you never know, really. And it's not like, not Tom. I've talked, I chatted with Eliza Clark before about why the Last Man's TV show adaptation where the season was canceled, like the finale. I didn't even wait for it to be over. And they're like, oh, we're not doing this anymore. So it's like your future in this show is Hands of Sci Fi and NBC. And so it is one of those things that, yeah, people should watch.
Waiting is great, but it's the same thing I've always said about it works in the comic book industry.
Yes, people wait for the trade, but in the same sense, like, in order to get potentially more, you might want to buy the single issues because it shows the publisher that you. You like the product that put out. So, yeah, same thing with, with a TV show is to try to watch it when it comes out.
It's worth, it's worth it because you want more. You got to show that it's worth the thing. 100%.
[00:49:30] Speaker B: Yeah, 100%.
[00:49:32] Speaker A: It's.
[00:49:34] Speaker B: It's. And again, even though I'm very proud of the way we wrap up season one.
[00:49:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:49:39] Speaker B: Like, oh, my God, the plans we have for season two and season three, like, I just, you know, I salivate at, like. Because now you've established characters.
[00:49:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:49:48] Speaker B: And, and so I don't have to, like, go back and reestablish them. Like, you kind of. You have things that, you know, that you can build on, and it gives us a much more interesting kind of Runway. And, you know, and there's things that, like I said Mike and Tim. Tim wanted to do, they couldn't do. And like, now we've set up. We've set up some things that could, that could happen.
But, but, but, but even if we have one season like it is, it's still going to be satisfying. And that was, you know, that was very important. But, but, man, I really hope, I really hope.
[00:50:19] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, me too. I think a lot of us are, you know, and I, you know, you, you're finishing it up here, but you have now done tv. You know, you've done this tv. You've done it, you've written it, and so on and so forth. Is this something that you, you, you like this format of doing things or you like to go back to doing mostly films? And are you. I mean, you can't say much, but are you Working on other stuff as well, I'm guessing.
[00:50:40] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I mean, I'm definitely working on their stuff. I mean, that's so, you know, my company, Paper Street Pictures, like, we're, we're making a lot of movies and, you know, this year didn't make as much because I was off doing the show, but the team, we've got a bunch that are upcoming that I'm producing and helping write and different things. I'm not directing anything at the moment because I'm hoping to get a season two and then I'm back on revival season. To directing just takes up too much of my time. So, yeah, number, number of features that are upcoming via Paper street and what's there. But no, you know, talking, you know, full circle to like that itch, you know, that you don't kind of realize. And I mean, I, I became writing was my first passion. It is and always will be my first passion. And I became a director to protect my writing, became a producer to protect my directing.
So, you know, that's really what I want to do. And there is no medium that is more writer centric than tv. You know, in film you can write something and then the director can go do what they want. Then a producer and a director are fighting and deciding what to do. And it's. The hierarchy is weird. It's like producer technically is in charge, but then the director's vision and then the writer, you know, nobody cares about, you know, and they just delivered a script. It's such a weird. It's a weird thing. And then here in tv, it's totally different. You know, the directors are completely in service of the writers who are the showrunners. Right. And what's there. So, you know, we are hiring the directors. They're. They're, they're working a very specific purview, you know, and still have to show their creative muscles and what's there. But it's just a different, A different world and man, is it. It's a weird amalgamation of what I think are my best strengths, which are I produce so many movies and done all this stuff for such a long time that I understand the logistical elements, I understand the budgetary concerns, I understand production, you know, and just how to get shit made.
[00:52:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:52:29] Speaker B: But then my passion is writing. So now I get to write and do this. And so that that combination has been truly, truly special, you know. And again, a lot of credit goes to Luke, who's just been such an amazing creative partner throughout this whole thing and so process and, you know, Allowing us to kind of do this together.
But I.
Yeah, like, I. I have. I had a feature I was about to go direct right before Revival got made, and then I was thinking about doing it in between, but I'm still holding because nothing has been as creatively fulfilling as doing this. Like, nothing.
And so, yeah, I want to make more tv, and I might finally actually sign with, like, an agent or a manager just because I want to capitalize on this and get in the room for some bigger TV stuff.
[00:53:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:53:14] Speaker B: You know, as well, because that.
I just. I just think that that's. That's what I could do best, you know, in this industry and. Or, I mean, I guess I'll always be. I take a lot of pride in my ability as a producer, as an indie producer and getting stuff made and what's there, and that'll always be something that I'll still do. I'll just probably be more picky now and which filmmakers I'm working with and what that is, but nothing.
And I love doing that, but this is what I want to do.
[00:53:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:53:40] Speaker B: I mean, this is, like. It is totally in my. In my wheelhouse and is so fulfilling. It's nuts.
It's.
[00:53:48] Speaker A: It's funny how there was a time where I was like, I like this movie. Like, this movie. Like, this movie. And they come to find out they're all directed by the same person. I didn't know that. You know, like this. Like this. This connection that you're like, oh, no shit. I like this movie. It makes sense because it was directed by this person or whatever. But I felt the same way when I was, like, kind of looking into your, you know, Paper street films as well as, you know, other things that are on your IMDb and things like that. And it's like, well, actually, I like these movies. And I'm like, well, you know, at least you were touching them and somehow, either producing them or writing or directing, whatever, and it makes sense. And then that's one of the reasons why, you know, I didn't know you as well when I pressed Play on the first episode of Revival, but now I can kind of see how the connection of all the things and how, you know, you're talented and I want to say your head to get too big on the screen here, Aaron, but you got talent, and I want to see more of it. So I'll be backing anything you put out because, like I said, most of the stuff I've seen that you've either at least had a finger on has been. Been pretty Good. So keep it up. How about that? There you go.
[00:54:45] Speaker B: Unbelievably kind. That's unbelievably kind. I mean, I think I work with a lot of talented people. I talented partners and that, that gives me the ability to kind of work on cool stuff. And yeah, I mean, you know, I just in the end, like, I mean one of the things people notice and look at I've made bad. Let's just be honest too. Like, I know that, you know, and, and I think. And sometimes I took some projects for the money which was the wrong play and those might have been nominated for a Razzie, you know, and stuff like that.
But I, which, which is true, that happened once.
But I think in the end, you know, and even the movies that I had made so that I wrote which didn't quite hit, you could like hopefully start to see people watch them. You could see little, little hints of like where I'm trying to find my voice, you know, figure out, you know, and I thought I was gonna make, you know, I'm gonna do a 24 horror and whatever the hell that means, you know, and like that thing. And that's not really my zone. Like it once I made the Scare package movies which are so fun and just ridiculous, you know, horror comedies. That's when I was like, oh, this is actually what I like the most. This is actually what I really dig. And, and that's why a lot of the humor that's infused again a ton, ton of the comic too. It's very, very funny comic book. But you know, the jokes and all that is really a big part of what I was doing here, you know, and infusing that and the humor in the weird situations, like that's what I love. I love something that you're laughing at like a really dumb dad joke and then later you're crying because of like high levels of drama and then you're shrieking because there's a scary moment or gore or whatever. And if you can balance all those, like I just think they're three sides to the same three sided. Know, like I think there's something really fun about that and that they're all set up and payoff, you know, and, and how you can do it and, and if you can balance that without whiplashing you, which I think early in my career maybe I whiplashed a little too much and how I shifted. But now I'm starting to kind of find a little bit of the zone and, and very proud, very proud of, you know, what we've done with this. And. And it's. It's very much. I'm like, yeah, this is. It's fun. Like, I want to make fun, you know, like, that's. That's a big thing. Like, I don't want to be dour and down as much and all that. Like, I want there to be. I wrote a whole thing with letterboxd a few years ago called Horror with Heart, and they had asked me to kind of talk about movies, and we were doing. And some of the movies I had made. And. And. And that's really what I keep coming back to, is Horror with Heart, you know, and. And once you get to the end, I mean, we were. We were doing the final mix on episode 10, and I mean, I think there were four or five, six people crying, you know, at the end of episode 10. And so. And I'm like, okay, yeah, like, but it's horror. It's horrific.
[00:57:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:57:22] Speaker B: Things going on. And so I think, you know, I'm like, all right, I think I'm. I'm doing something right here. So we'll see.
The imposter syndrome is just ridiculous, though, just listening to you say that.
[00:57:34] Speaker A: But we'll, you know, I'll tell you right now. Anybody out there, if you haven't read the comic book yet, I feel like the first three, two or three pages of the comic book will get you hooked on it. You know, there's a scene with. With an incinerator, and it's also the first scene in the movie or the TV show is first part of the TV show as well, which is also a moment where I was like, hell, yes. This is amazing because it just.
If that doesn't tell you what the hell, like, I just can't imagine what that was like, what would that be like in that room, you know, with that happening? And so to me, I was like, if that doesn't hook you, I don't know what's going to, but not going to. But, you know, and the same thing at the end of the first issue with it saying, don't tell dad, and that falling in, like, the first episode should hook you. But I've always said to people, give it a few episodes if you're not a big fan of it, because I feel like you can't get enough out of only one episode. And because it's only 10 episodes, just give it the whole season. Just watch the whole.
[00:58:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:58:29] Speaker A: Time is important to people. But, like, still, it's, you know, episode.
[00:58:33] Speaker B: Sixes are like, you know, And I know that's beyond halfway. So that's a lot to ask. But. But if you can get to like the end of episode six and you're not, you know, and you're on the. You're still on the fence, like, don't worry about it. That's cool. But if you're at episode six, like, I, I think this.
Such crazy things happen and it's a big recontextualization of everything that's going on. We call it our second pilot. You know, that's really what so much of this was, which was just like finding a way to. To like, you know, set up the stakes, then kind of go on a journey and then just upend all those stakes again, you know, in a different way by using stuff that's in the comic, just in a way that wasn't necessarily in the comic.
[00:59:11] Speaker A: So.
[00:59:12] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's, that's, that's what we always, we always ask people to try to get to.
[00:59:16] Speaker A: We have a nice mixture of listeners on here that are TV fans, film fans, but also comic book fans. And I definitely feel like this is a, definitely a. Obviously an adaptation of a comic book into a TV meets those venn diagram of fans in there, and you should be able to find that in there. But you know, I highly recommend to either way, read the comic and then watch the show or do the opposite, see how the show takes the comic and does what it wants to with it. And so I think that's cool to have that. I've done it both ways before, whether I've watched read a Stephen King book and then watched the adaptation or the opposite, you know, so I have done that and I've been let down and surprised in both sides of it. But I personally, like I said, I highly recommend the comic book as its own thing too. And so it's one of my favorite comics that are out there. I mean, I have a nice little Tim Seeley signed copy of that. I have the regular paper trade signed by Tim. I also have the. Signed by Tim. So like, I have all of them. So it's great. And so I can't wait for people to actually. I want the whole season to be out there so I can actually talk to people, you know, without spoilers and things like that. It's one of those. Yeah, it's a fun time to live in though, to be able to go week to week with those people who have seen it. Like, oh, have you seen episode six yet? You know, it was best Thursday or whatever, and they're all like, no, I haven't gotten it yet. We'll talk to me when you get a chance to do that, because I want to talk to you about it. And so it's exciting. Exciting time to live in. And to me personally, like I said, Tim's such a great person, too. So seeing his and Mike Norton's work come to fruition and all the hard work that he's put into making it appear on tv, it's so cool to see that as well. And Tim's a busy person right now writing Godzilla and all that stuff too. He's not taking any time off.
[01:00:51] Speaker B: Yeah, we're going to San Diego Comic Con this week, and he's always doing like a million things and all this, which is great.
The fact that he hadn't had something made, it's just stupid.
[01:01:01] Speaker A: It's just absolutely insane in the comic book industry. I was like, oh, we always talk about Tim Seeley in the comic book shop. We're talking about this. That Godzilla coming out. He just wrote the Marvel Swimsuit Edition comic. His local man comics, phenomenal at Tony Fleece. Like, all amazing. And then last summer when the Eisner's came out, and they're like, oh, Tim Seeley's nominated for his first Eisner. Go, wait a second, his first. And someone's like, yeah. I'm like, all the amazing stuff this guy's made and he's never been nominated. I'm like, this makes me put some perspective. This one person who always complains about not being nominated for an awards will not mention this person. But there's one person I know who always, like another season, are not nominated.
This puts you into perspective. If you. If Tim hasn't been nominated until last summer, then there's really. You know what I mean? Tim is such a phenomenal comic book writer. And again, now tv, you know, helping with TV and stuff like that. And. And also I'm a big fan of Michael Morrissey, too. So, like that.
[01:01:52] Speaker B: Yeah, Michael's the best. Yeah, yeah. We wrote the pilot with us and. And had such a joy writing that together. And. Yeah, no, it's. It's. It's. It's been a wonderful immersion into Tim's role, Michael's world, and understanding comics even more. And, you know, and I said, I see Saga back there, which I got into after reading Revival. Then I'm going back to some of the old Image comics and stuff that, you know, and what's there and Chu, which is just so, like, you know, so there's just.
[01:02:17] Speaker A: There's a bunch that I'd like to see you take that on.
[01:02:21] Speaker B: Yes, I agree with you. I agree with you.
I have. I may have said that before. I think she would be so rad.
So. Yeah, no, there's a lot. There's a lot there. And. And so it's an exciting world to kind of think about more stuff and what could. What could potentially be there. But still have a lot of story with revival to go and very excited to continue. Continue that one.
[01:02:44] Speaker A: I'm excited. You know, I said I've always been, like, happy. We mentioned recently, just a second ago, it's in the world.
It's out there now. No one can take this season away from you, from us, from anybody, because we're going to see it all. And then whether we get more or not, I'll just be happy for it. I want more. I want more for you. I want more for us. But if this is what we get, this is what we get. It got made, and that's important in this situation. But like I said, keep watching it because I want people to. I want more. So people should watch it. Put it on six TVs in your house. Do whatever you need to do.
[01:03:13] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:03:14] Speaker A: Tell all your neighbors.
[01:03:15] Speaker B: Go to bed. Put it on the background on peak. Because, like, most people don't have Nielsen, by the way. If you have a Nielsen box, oh.
[01:03:20] Speaker A: My God, please, please watch it.
[01:03:22] Speaker B: But if you. But if you don't, just put it on. Peacock in the background. Put it on mute.
[01:03:26] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm gonna knock out all my neighbor's houses and just be like, guys, just put this on. I. I really think you should watch it, but if you don't, that's okay. Just put it on.
[01:03:34] Speaker B: They're. They're. Yeah, because they're watching these. I mean, like, yeah, we get, like, weekly updates and. And, like, are we improving? Are we moving? Is this demographic, you know, this and this. And it's like, you know, and the threshold to. To get a renewal is so much higher. They used to just, like, they obviously, you know, canceled some probably maybe a little arbitrarily, some would say, but they also renewed some. They're like, yeah, we'll give them another season or whatever. That is not how it works anymore. So we definitely, definitely need those eyes. So I really appreciate you talking about it and, you know, and. Yeah. And giving, you know, especially coming from. From Tim. Tim and Mike's work, because it's. It's really special. It's very. It is a complete honor to be able to adopt what what they have done here. And yeah, I hope to continue to do so. And. And I. And again, it was with. With the audience and with the fans of the comic in mind, so you can have fun. So.
[01:04:24] Speaker A: Yes.
[01:04:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:04:26] Speaker A: And we are. We are definitely here for it. And my buddy Paul owns the Collective Comics and Collectibles in Bangor, Maine, are gonna hopefully do a series review after the season ended.
After season ends so that we can get a look on a. Get it out there as well at the end too. But we just. We just reviewed the 2000. 2005 Fantastic Four movie.
[01:04:47] Speaker B: Okay. All right.
[01:04:50] Speaker A: That tells you what we actually normally review. And we do the obscure Marvel and. And sure.
The Man Thing movie that was made for TV or whatever. And we've done like Nick Fury, agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. so we've done some. Some pretty obscure, you know, pop culture movies, but this every once in a while we do. We just did Back to the Future for the 40th anniversary, but we'll do revival because we're big fans of that too. And 50th anniversary of JAWS this year. So that's a. I know.
[01:05:16] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[01:05:16] Speaker A: Crazy.
[01:05:17] Speaker B: That was. That was crazy. Actually, one of the last episodes was airing. They showed Jaws before the last episode aired on Sci Fi. Because I'm watching a Sci Fi. Like, oh, my God. Like, this is a weird thing for me right now. And what's there also, I will flag. So not flag, but. So Bangor. We actually shot in New Brunswick in Saint John. New Brunswick.
[01:05:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:05:33] Speaker B: So I went through Bangor, man. I went by, you know, seeing things, house and everything and all that. And a lot of people would go back in the main, you know, sometimes on the weekends and stuff. And like David James Elliott, he plays Wayne.
[01:05:46] Speaker A: Yes.
[01:05:47] Speaker B: From JAG and all that back in the day. And great guy. He would cross over into Maine to get. To get his cigars and then come back over to, you know, to New Brunswick on the weekends.
[01:05:56] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:05:57] Speaker B: So, yeah. So I'm familiar with Bangor. Like, I know it well. Yeah.
[01:06:01] Speaker A: Yeah. If you're ever back, you look me up, we'll hang out, we'll get some. I work for a brewery for the day. During the day. I'm a creative director for a brewery. So a lot of times I have people in town, we go to a restaurant. I brought them out to the restaurants and stuff like that too. But like, yeah, it's a. It's a. Stephen King's house is usually a stop on the way.
Daniel Krause was up here recently who's got his movie Whalefall being made right now.
[01:06:22] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:06:23] Speaker A: So he's.
[01:06:24] Speaker B: Yeah. I haven't read Whale Fall. I saw he had that. That's amazing.
[01:06:27] Speaker A: Phenomenal. And the movies, like, I think it's. I think it's done. I think it's in post production now.
But he was talking about it recently, so. Yeah, but, yeah, I've done. I've done beers with him and George A. Romero. We did. Well, his foundation, we did a beer called Pay the Piper for their book that came out. But, yeah. And so he's come up here. You always got to see Stephen King's house. It's one of those things. He's not there anymore. He's in Florida. But like. Yeah, his house is there. So. Yeah. But yeah, revival on Syfy Thursday nights and then a week later on Peacock. So make sure you watch that for sure again, you know, and also pick up at your local comic book shop or wherever you can find books. The. The trade paperback or the collector's edition or the single issues, wherever you can find of the comic.
[01:07:05] Speaker B: There's a new compendium out, too. Yes, a new compendium that got released right at the end when we were making the show, actually, we gave it out to everyone on set. So that was our. That was our crew gift that Luke and I bought them for everyone.
[01:07:16] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:07:16] Speaker B: So that, you know, and then Tim was like, signing them and doing drawings and all for everybody when he was there, which was. Which was really fun. And then they're also doing. We have a new print. Well, the print will give away a senior Comic Con. We might have some of those. And then they. I believe they're doing a new reissue of the first. The first issue, too. That's going to be a fun, special thing that I'll let them divulge. Yeah, they want to say that it's fun.
[01:07:40] Speaker A: I'm so happy that you came on, took the time out of your day to join. I know you got a lot going on, and thank you so much for making this happen and chatting with us, you know, and we'll hopefully have you back on in the future for your next project or to talk to season two or whatever you want to do, but I look forward to that. But thank you so much for taking some time out of your day to chat with us.
[01:07:56] Speaker B: No, it was wonderful. I had a wonderful chat. Thanks for being patient with my time, my schedule. So. Yeah. And for watching the show. Thank you.
[01:08:02] Speaker A: Yes, I'll watch it. Don't worry. We got at least one viewer over here.
[01:08:06] Speaker B: I'll take it I'll take it.
[01:08:07] Speaker A: I'll make my wife watch it on our laptop, though, so there's two streams going on.
Thanks, Aaron.
[01:08:12] Speaker B: Cool. All right. Appreciate it. Cheers.
