Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to the Capes and Tights podcast right here on Capesandtights.com I'm your host, Justin Soderbergh. Once again, this episode is brought to you by our friends over at Galactic Comics and Collectibles. At galactic comics and collectibles.com we welcome to the podcast for the first time, Dave Schilling, who is a writer.
Dave is known for contributing to the LA Times, the Guardian, the New Yorker, gq, so much more.
His short film, which is wrote and directed Can't Float, is coming out soon as well. But Schilling is really here to talk about the new book he wrote along with Blumhouse called Horrors New 15 Years of Blumhouse. It's a book to honor the 15th anniversary of Blumhouse, the home of movies like Paranormal Activity, Get Out, Megan, the Halloween trilogy, and so much more. So check this out. It's available at bookstores everywhere. And this is Dave Schilling talking about it and the creation of it and more about Blumhouse and so on and so forth. But before you listen, check us out on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, bluesky, threads, all those places. You can rate, review, subscribe over on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you find your podcast. You can all also find the video portion of this podcast over on YouTube. And as always, you can visit capes and tights.com for so much more. This is Dave Schilling, co writer of or writer of Horror's new wave, 15 years of Blumhouse, right here on the Capes and Tights podcast. Enjoy, everyone.
Welcome to the podcast. Dave, how are you today?
[00:01:25] Speaker B: I'm very well. Thanks for having me.
[00:01:27] Speaker A: I'm glad, I'm glad it's. I live in Maine. It's a little warm here today. I don't know why, but it's like 85 degrees out right now.
[00:01:33] Speaker B: Well, I'll tell you what, it's much colder here in Los Angeles, so enjoy Maine.
[00:01:38] Speaker A: Exactly. Right now. But it's one of those ones you're not prepared for. You take the air conditioners out the window and then you're not prepared for these days. And so it's a little toasty, but we'll make do. It's all good. But yeah, we're here to talk about horror, I guess, really like horror things that this actually, this episode is going to actually debut on our podcast platform on Halloween, which is really cool. So that's. It's a cool, fitting thing here where we talk about horror for our Horror Week. So we're here to talk about Horror's new wave. 15 years of Blumhouse and this beautiful hardcover book with spot gloss on it and so much information contained in it. But before we get into that, let's just, you know, tell the listeners. What is Horror's New Wave?
[00:02:22] Speaker B: Well, it is, as best I could, a.
An encapsulation of the first 15 years of Blumhouse as a production company. Right. The genesis of it, the ethos of it, why it's special, and telling the stories of the movies that really define the company across those 15 years.
[00:02:47] Speaker A: And how did, how did Dave Schilling get involved in this project? Like, how did. How does your name attached to this now?
[00:02:52] Speaker B: Well, this was a project that was in the ether for a while at Blumhouse and Simon and Schuster and needed somebody to write it. And I guess I was as good a choice as any. You know, like, I came in in July of last year, and we finished the actual manuscript in October. So it was a very quick process, but it was a pleasure to work with everybody at Blumhouse, at Simon and Schuster, and make this thing come to life. That was an idea that had been, like I said, kind of floating around. And people wanted to tell this story, to tell the story of Blumhouse. And I was very lucky to be chosen to do that.
[00:03:39] Speaker A: It's so funny to think about how ingrained, if you're a horror fan, how ingrained Blumhouse really is in your life when you're talking about horror movies and things like that. Like, it's funny how, like, you'll watch a movie and then at the end you're like, I really like that movie. So you look up information about the movie and realize that Blumhouse was attached to it or something like that. Like, it's one of those. And then the next movie you're like, there's a reason why I like all these movies is because there's one name attached to all of them, and that's Blumhouse. And it's. It's cool to see this. And there's obviously. Well, more movies over. Over 15 years have been made by Blumhouse, but this is a, you know, a smaller number of those films that's featured in this, in this book.
Do you have any idea of why these specific films were featured?
[00:04:20] Speaker B: Because I chose them.
[00:04:23] Speaker A: Because I sat.
[00:04:23] Speaker B: Around, what are the movies that really define the company? And it's, it's character and it's, it's, like I said, it's ethos and it's, it's vibe. Right? And I was being glib, of course, that I just picked them. You know, there's obviously a lot of collaboration that goes in a project like this. And you know, we all sat around saying, you know, if we had to pick just 15 movies, what would those 15 movies be? And I was very much passionate about the idea that we needed to focus specifically on horror. Obviously there are many movies outside of the genre that Jason Blum produced that Blumhouse has its name on.
Black Klansman, Whiplash, you know, movies that are real, you know, critically acclaimed, Oscar nominated feature films, right? There's television, there's video games.
But in order to put together a book that is the most compelling it can be for the reader, for the audience, for the lover of Blumhouse as a brand, we had to really focus on horror films and genre entertainment. And so that made it a little bit easier. And then getting deeper into it and asking more questions about what would be the focus of the book and what movies would be the focus of the book.
I wanted to make sure that we got to speak to as many of the truly great directors that have passed through the offices of Blumhouse as possible. So that made it a no brainer that we would talk about Sinister so that we can talk to Scott Derrickson. It was a no brainer to talk about Insidious so we could talk to James Wan and Leigh Whannell.
And then getting deeper into that filmography and talking to Lee about Invisible man, talking to James about Megan Mike Flanagan on Origin of Evil was, was crucial, right? You want to have those people who are truly considered some of the great filmmakers of the era and get them in the book. And so that was really important. And then obviously the Halloween movies were, were another no brainer just because it's Halloween, right? It's Michael Myers. If you're going to talk about horror, Michael Myers is one of the first names that comes up right. With the genre. And so the fact that we had these three movies that were this tril.
There were Blumhouse movies that was, that was an easy call.
[00:06:48] Speaker A: I, I thought back, you know, reading the section about Halloween and, and the creation of Halloween, obviously, way back, back in the day. I'm 39, so it was, you know, 1986 was when I was born. So back in the day it is back in the day for me is that search engine optimization wasn't a thing then. But actually calling the movie Halloween was the best possible thing. Because now if you just type in Halloween movie into Google, the first thing that's going to Come up. Is the Halloween movie, not just Halloween movies, which is a phenomenal thing. But, yeah, it's a great section. I like how it was more towards the middle of the book, too. So as you're reading it, you didn't just start with. Obviously starting the book with Paranormal Activity makes a lot of sense, but the Halloween was kind of like in the middle of the book. So you actually got to see some other films and read about some other films that maybe either you didn't know about or knew less about than these things like the Halloween franchise, which is really cool. It's.
[00:07:40] Speaker B: It's a loose chronological order, right? I mean, we obviously talk about the sequels for the Purge in the Purge chapter. We talk about the insidious sequels in the Insidious chapter.
But it kind of worked out perfectly that Halloween was, like you said, in the middle of the book, because the Halloween trilogy is really kind of a big departure for Blumhouse, right? It was for so many years considered this kind of place where original material would be at the forefront. It wasn't, you know, a lot of remakes. It wasn't, you know, big ip. It was small, lean, affordable horror films like Truth or Dare. Truth or Dare is a chapter in the book, and it's one movie that I think is really underrated. And I was very glad to include it in in the book because I think it's one of the most potent versions of or examples of what made Blumhouse great at the beginning, which is, let's get a great idea. Let's find a competent and smart director, and let's build something out of that that isn't going to break the bank. But Halloween is, like you said, the franchise, right, Is the number one horror franchise, and it has lasted for so long. And so for Blumhouse to then take that on was kind of a big. A big change.
And now you've seen the company grow so much, and you've seen it get into more of those franchises, right? You know, Five Nights at Freddy's is a Blumhouse film, and the sequel, obviously, a Blumhouse film. And that's a massively popular video game and a huge franchise that so many people in the world adore.
Blumhouse was able to take that and build that into a feature film franchise when a lot of other studios, a lot of production companies struggle to figure that out.
[00:09:37] Speaker A: And turning video game. Video games into movies has been something that has been hit or miss in the world of films over the years. And so to have Five Nights at Freddy be so well made and well done and adapted from it. Obviously you had the creator of Five Nights at Freddy's involved in it, so that helps a little bit. But, like, you know, the story itself. But I'm glad you mentioned Truth or Dare.
I rewatched it over the weekend with my wife because she's a huge fan of Lucy Hale, but for a different reason for her romance movies and things like that. And so actually having her watch a horror movie with me, it's like you gotta find those small threads that connect these things to get my wife to watch horror movies with me. And that's one of them that worked really well. I was able to get her to watch Truth or Dare over again with me because of Lucy Hale being part of it.
[00:10:22] Speaker B: Lucy Hale was wonderful to talk to for that chapter. I think she gives a great performance playing a character that isn't always sympathetic, that has a lot of guilt, and makes a really horrifying choice at the end of the movie. I won't spoil it if you haven't seen it yet, but it's a great performance and she really grounded what could have been a preposterous film. Right? You title something Truth or Dare and you say, we're going to make a movie based on this kind of campfire game.
And that required the filmmakers, the actors, everyone involved to take it seriously. And Jeff Wadlow, who directed that film, took it very seriously. And he looked at how to make a movie about this subject matter that could have gone in a million different directions and make it compelling and make it believable and grounded and something that people could emotionally invest in. And I think, you know, he did a remarkable job. And Lucy is an incredibly charismatic person and really lovely to talk to. And I think that chapter is a standout in the book.
[00:11:32] Speaker A: It really is. And it made me. It reminded me some of these films to ma Truth or Dare. Some of these films. It reminded me that the, sadly to say, existed because there's so much out there that I kind of forget about sometimes. You watch it once, it was a good film and you may not go back to it, but, like, reading a book like this reminds you that there.
[00:11:52] Speaker B: They're.
[00:11:52] Speaker A: They're there.
And the benefit we get with digitalness of the world we live in now is that I can instantly access some of those films to watch again. I don't have to. You know, sadly, I did like to go into Blockbuster and looking through films and finding new films and things like that, but like to be able to have the instant access to Go buy digitally or stream it or whatever. Was nice because I could read that chapter, be like, oh, I want to watch that movie again. So like I was writing down notes about which movie I wanted to watch again and so on. But like speaking of digitalness or the world of the Internet, some of this information, so obviously some people might be like, well, I can find a lot of this information out on the Internet. Like I could just Google Truth or Dare the movie and find out, find the Wikipedia page and learn about these things. And there are some facts in here that obviously people can just find, you know, like the budgets and things like that. Adding the number of kills was really kind of cool. Unique kills or unique things. That was the thing that, like maybe not be as easily accessible to some people. But also these interviews, and you mentioned the interview with Lucy Hale interviewing some of these creators and directors of these films. That's where I think that the meat of the book is. And I think that like I said, I could find out how much money that according to the Internet, Truth or Dare made in the box office that's available out there, but an actual interview with the creators of the projects is not just simply available out there. Was that the focus of this was getting those interviews? You mentioned a little bit off the top here about doing those interviews, but that was the main point of this book, talking to these creators.
[00:13:16] Speaker B: Oh yeah. I mean, there's absolutely a draw for the reader to these first hand accounts of what happened. And filmmaking is obviously a massive machine, right? Even a movie that costs $5 million, it's still a huge undertaking. And so much money is, you know, $5 million sounds like not a lot for a movie. But guess what? If you gave me $5 million today, my life would change.
So it's, it's a huge, it's a huge machine. But at the end of the day, it's about the human beings and the people that are hired to give up weeks or months of their lives or years of their lives to a creative endeavor. And that's, I think, a beautiful thing. And that's why I was so excited to do this book, is because it is about people first. And the idea of interviewing all of these brilliant individuals who gave themselves to the art form was incredibly appealing. And there's so much stuff that obviously isn't out there because someone would have to ask the question, right? It's not as simple as the facts and figures, like you said, the numbers and the release dates though, those are there for people who want to be able to quickly Find them. But I don't think a lot of people know that Initially for Get Out, Michael B. Jordan was offered the lead role in that film. And it was something that I only found out about from talking to Terry Taylor, the casting director for that movie, that there was an offer out that the studio was excited about him. And that was a very real possibility in that eventually he decided to not do it. But that could have changed movie history.
Those are the kinds of things that are so exciting to get from the people involved. Jamie Lee Curtis, very candid, very interesting, and willing to share her experience of coming back to play Laurie Strode in the Halloween trilogy and the things that she loved about those movies and the things that maybe her and David Gordon Green didn't always see eye to eye on. Those are the things that you only get from talking to the people.
So that's why I, you know, I'm obviously biased, but you could buy the book because it's really fascinating.
[00:15:40] Speaker A: Well, it's true too. And I'll tell you right now, the design of the book. We talked about this before we started recording too, and that you wish you could take credit for it, but was it. Raphael Gironi did the design on this book as well. It's beautiful as a piece. I feel like in my house, as a fan of horror, if I didn't have a 4 year old and an 18 month old, it would live on my coffee table. Came over, they could just pick it up and start perusing through and find the movie they like or whatever and talk about it. But with a 4 year old and 18 month old, it's up on a shelf right now because I don't want them to get to it.
[00:16:12] Speaker B: It's my book and I don't have it out because I have a seven year old and he's like, dad, you wrote a book. Can I see it? No, you absolutely cannot see it. No, I love the design of the book because it had a real cohesive concept behind it. I remember when I was told it's going to be like, you know, file. Secret files. Yeah, that's brilliant. You know, these are, this is almost like, you know, cracking open a top secret envelope or something. My favorite part is when I got my copies, I was like, did I spill hot sauce or did I cut myself because there's like fake blood on the COVID And I'm like, oh, no, that's just the fake blood. And it was so well done. And it feels like, you know, real blood sometimes. And I get confused and I wonder if something's horribly wrong with me.
[00:17:03] Speaker A: But I mean, the design behind it makes it, like I said, more attractive to people who are maybe, like I said, like the idea that having a book and can. I'm a collector as it is, so having something that's this beautiful at the same time. But I will say there is an audiobook version of this too, that is fascinating. I actually went out and bought it from Libro FM to. To listen to as well, because.
[00:17:23] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:17:24] Speaker A: I wanted the. The cool. The number of narrators are on there that have, you know, you have different directors and different creators and different actors voice being voiced by someone else. So you kind of get a difference between someone's accent. Something like that is phenomenal. And I didn't know when I first started listening to it over it was like how it was going to work because obviously there's a lot of information, pictures and things like that in this book. And it worked masterfully. It was really, really, really, really, really cool. So if someone wants to like, peruse the book and look at the images and look at the statistics and look at the design of it, it's worth it. But if you're on the go and you want to still learn a bunch of the audiobook's fantastic. So that's. I recommend both, honestly. And again, if it was me, it. By both, right? I mean, by both.
[00:18:04] Speaker B: Yeah, obviously. Buy multiple copies in every format you can think of. I'm just glad my voice isn't in it. I would have been like, oh, God, there he is again asking a dumb question.
They're not dumb questions, but it makes sense.
[00:18:18] Speaker A: Like. And having someone, like having someone with an Australian accent or New Zealand do the accent, you know, and making that work that way made me feel like the person was actually speaking to me.
But it really obviously didn't have all the. You didn't have Scott Derrickson and all these people talking to me through the audiobook. But having multiple narrators, just one person reading this, it almost would have felt like it was just one person reading it. Almost like a textbook. Like you're forced to learn this stuff, but it was like, almost like immersive in enjoying the experience of listening, not just reading, which was really cool.
[00:18:49] Speaker B: Well, I got the treat of being the one listening to all of the actual interviews. And that was a thrill unto itself. So if even like a fraction of that excitement and pleasure comes through in the audiobook, I'm thrilled you have a.
[00:19:05] Speaker A: Different, completely different audiobook at your house. It's a really weird audiobook.
[00:19:09] Speaker B: It's a lot of Zoom recordings. Yeah.
[00:19:13] Speaker A: And that experience, you must have been, obviously, to get involved in a project like this as a writer. You can get hired to do something, but, like, it's. It's more enjoyable or you're more likely to say yes when you enjoy the actual subject it's on. So I'm guessing you're a fan of Blumhouse and horror movies and things like that. And so. But did this make you more of a fan? Like, you know, I did it make you. Did it, like, be like, okay, now I'm like a die hard fan of this stuff because of doing this project?
[00:19:39] Speaker B: Well, I can tell you, if the book was about the world's most obnoxious cheesemongers, I probably wouldn't have done it, even though I love cheese.
[00:19:49] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah.
[00:19:50] Speaker B: The fact that it was about movies and specifically horror movies made it very appealing.
And yeah, I would say that I'm more of a fan of Blumhouse from doing this because I got to speak to Jason Blum, I got to speak to Cooper Samuelson, Ryan Turek, all of these really, really smart creative executives behind the scenes that have a real vision for what they think films should be, and horror films specifically.
I respond very well to their values. Right. The values of putting creativity first, trusting creative people, giving them opportunities. I've always been a fan of their financial model. The idea that, look, we're going to do this as affordably and responsibly as possible to ensure that we can keep doing it. Like, that's what we need. I think more of in Hollywood is a belief in great ideas and great creators and responsibility with budgets. You think about how big a budget can get and a movie doesn't open as high as you want it to, and then, you know, someone's career is over. And that just doesn't seem fair to me. Right. Blumhouse was, was, and still is a place where creative people can come in and be given the keys to the kingdom. A great example of this is Emma Tammy, who directed Five Nights at Freddy's. Emma is still a relatively young filmmaker, but they gave her this huge franchise that, you know, Scott Cawthon is the keeper of the flame of Five Nights at Freddy's. And if it's not working for him and for the audience, for the people who love Five Nights at Freddy's, it could have not worked. Right. But they gave Emma the opportunity and they. And they afforded her the trust to make that film and to make it something that the audience would. Would respond to and appreciate that's what made me love Blumhouse more is. Is just the fact that people can come in and be given those opportunities.
[00:21:54] Speaker A: Yeah. And when you're discussing these things, you're discussing with Scott Derrickson or these people about specific films, you're discussing it with, with Sinister, you're talking about Sinister and, and the, these tidbits about sequels and not wanting to do a sequel versus wanting to do a sequel and so on and so forth. And I was having a discussion with a coworker, I'm a creative director during the day at Brewery, and I was talking to one of my fellow coworkers about this book and how someone. You should read it and should get it and so on and so forth. And I was like these things about, like horror, the horror genre in film. It's almost like a given that if a movie does well, you're going to get a sequel because it's just, it's just how it works. It's always this. It doesn't matter if all your main people died in the first movie. Like, they could easily resurrect these people in a horror film. And so the decision to do a sequel or not, and personally, what you should do, what you shouldn't do, and so on. So hearing these conversations are things that. It almost felt like I was sitting down to the table with Scott Derrickson about, you know, this idea of doing a sequel to Black Phone versus the sequel to Sinister and how that, how that worked out. And I felt like I was doing this, which is pretty cool. So I can imagine being in your seat and learning these things. I'm guessing that a lot more stuff was still said and you had to pick and choose what you actually put in the book. Right. I'm guessing there's, there's editing process on this.
[00:23:07] Speaker B: I mean, I think if we put every single thing someone said into the book, it would be 4,000 pages long. Right. Because some people I talked to twice. I talked to Christopher Landon twice because I had to talk to him about not just Happy Death Day one and two, but also freaky. So I talked to Chris twice. I talked to, to Blum twice. Because our first interview was mostly about Paranormal Activity and the genesis of Blumhouse. And I really, you know, you can't put it all in there as much as you'd like to.
But to go back to your question about sequels and, and what to do and why people do them or not do them, I think sometimes it is a profit motive. Yes. Right. Okay. You have a big hit. It. Let's do it again. Let's make some more money.
And that's a reasonable thing to do in a business. You know, this is, this is film industry. It's, it's not a purely artistic endeavor. It is artistic, but it's not purely artistic.
But you have to still have a good idea to do it. Right. And all of the kind of the pieces have to fall into place for it to happen. Right. It's not as simple as we're going to do a sequel and everyone is absolutely going to come back.
Sometimes that doesn't happen.
Sometimes you can't make it work. Truth or Dare.
You know, in that chapter, you, you'll read that there was an idea for a second Truth or Dare movie that was going to be very meta and it was going to be about the making of the film and kind of like Wes Craven's new Nightmare, which is famous.
What happened if Freddy Krueger showed up on the set of a Nightmare on Elm street movie?
[00:24:48] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:24:49] Speaker B: That didn't come together. You know, who knows why.
Just various things didn't fall into place. Sinister 2 is an example of, let's do another one. We'll figure it out.
And Scott will tell you he was not, didn't love how it turned out. And that's not a reflection on the filmmakers who directed that movie.
It's just didn't, it didn't come together. And sometimes it doesn't come together. It's like I make an omelette every day, but some days the omelet's gonna maybe burn or something. Right. And that's, that's just, it doesn't mean I'm a bad cook. No.
[00:25:25] Speaker A: Yeah.
Just didn't work out.
[00:25:27] Speaker B: Yeah. But he, he had a lot of excitement and enthusiasm about Black Phone 2.
And, you know, I got kind of the, the like 30,000 foot view of what it was, what it's going to be when it comes out. And if you are listening and you haven't seen any trailers or commercials, I'm not going to tell you, you know, what occurs or what the, what the story is.
But he had that enthusiasm, he had that excitement, and that's a big part of it. And I think now you can be a little bit more choosy, especially when you're someone as successful as Scott.
What are you gonna do next? Are you gonna do a sequel? Are you not?
[00:26:10] Speaker A: It's funny as. I don't know why I keep on using this, this, this analogy or this, this movie as the, in the subject of sequels, I'm like, you Know when a movie is financially successful, some, some studios just make a sequel because it's gonna make them money. I mean, Paul Blart, Mall Cop has a sequel.
Like to me, I'm like, I was like, it's not like, no offense to the creators or people that were in that movie, but it's like that movie wasn't like an all star movie that was like award winning, but they made $186 million on like a $20 million budget. So they're gon like, let's make another one. And so, and then second one made money too. So there is sequels that don't really need to be there, that happen. And sometimes again, it's timing, sometimes it's financially. There's all these different reasons behind. And I'm so glad to hear that Black Phone part in this book because I live in Maine, so Stephen King, the King family and Joe Hill and all this is a big, big part of our lives up here. I'm actually currently reading King Sorrow, Joe Hill's current book. Got an advanced copy of that. So I'm reading that right now. But Black Phone was phenomenal. And so when you always phenomenal movies, you're like, I want more. But sometimes it always doesn't, you don't need more or it doesn't work out. But I'm glad this is going to work out, hopefully because what I've heard so far is people are saying that it's tremendous. So. So what I've heard so far is that it's a good thing that they did a sequel. So. But there is this, I mean, you know, we've, you know, James Wan's done one of them is we've had 17 fast and furious movies because they make money and they're entertaining and people want to see them. There's different reasonings behind why we have sequels and franchises. And some decisions are positive and some are negative. But you know, I'm glad some of them made again Black Phone to be one of those ones I'm excited to see.
[00:27:44] Speaker B: As long as you have a good idea and you have passion, yeah, anything is possible.
I truly believe that when it comes to art, broadly in filmmaking specifically, if you have passion and you have a good idea, you can make it work. And I think more often than not those things are present in Blumhouse films and that's what makes them special.
[00:28:06] Speaker A: It's true. And you have so by big one. So I loved a lot of the different movies that were featured in here. I mentioned the Truth or Dare one Because I got my wife to be able to watch a Lucy Hill movie. The reminder of movies like Freaky, which came out of really bad timing for people, so baby, people don't even know exists because of the pandemic and stuff like that. But Paranormal Activity did do a lot for me. And I remember specifically I went to this movie with my ex wife.
I'm remarried, but my ex wife and I went to a movie in Bangor, Maine, home of Stephen King, for. I don't know, it must have been 10 o' clock showing of it or something like that. And I truly remember that movie leaving that movie being like, this could be real.
And then looking at it and hearing all the news articles and things like that about how inexpensively it was made and things like that. I got in the car and I'm starting the car and one of the moviegoers just walked behind my window, like just walked from just going to their car. And it scared the shit out of me. It was one of those things that from that moment on I was like, this is what. And that's. And that's the beginning of Blumhouse. But that's, that's the beginning of Blumhouse Productions. But that to me solidified my love for any movie that has the B H attached to it. Like that feeling that I got when I left that theater. And again now it's to the point where there's a couple of studios that me and my friends are like, as long as this name is attached to this, I'll give it a shot. Because I know the passion behind these things. I mean, a 24 is a current one. That's, that's. A lot of people are like, okay, it has that eight, the three letters, a three letter number combination there. I'm going to watch that movie because I want to get. They're giving people chances. And this, Blumhouse was one of these people that gave people chances. And I think that they made. They think that a thought outside the box or they still think outside the box a little bit. And, and so I know the experience is going to be unique and fun no matter what, if you like the movie or not. And so that, that, that experience of watching Paranormal Activity like started it all for me and it started all for a lot of people, including what we now see as Blumhouse Productions.
[00:30:00] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I mean, that movie still means a lot to Jason.
And you'll see in that chapter we really go into it and he kind of gives the entire origin story from his perspective of missing out on Blair Witch Project saying, I'm never gonna miss out on one of these again.
He gets the DVD for Paranormal Activity. It blows his mind. And from there, you know, he makes it his mission to ensure that that movie gets a theatrical release. And can you imagine if it went straight to video? Back then, it would have been absurd, but there was. There were discussions about, let's just put this on DVD and then we'll remake it with. With stars. And that would have missed. The point of why it worked is because of what you're saying. It felt like it could have been real.
And I think that is.
Obviously, there are horror films that are over the top, campy, ridiculous, and that's the pleasure of it, right? You don't. You're not sucked into, you know, most Nightmare on Elm street films because you believe it's possible.
But I think the core concept of horror, no matter what, is. You should be invested.
Even if it's silly or if it's, you know, Toxic Avenger. A lot of those trauma movies, I love a trauma movie. They're fantastic, great fun, but you're not invested.
I think more often than not, it's about investment and not belief that it's real, but that it is grounded and that the emotions of the characters are grounded, that the fear that they have is a fear that is transported through the screen to you, and that you are now kind of living vicariously through them and experiencing these scary things along with them. That's super important.
The outliers exist, and I recognize them and appreciate them. But I think if you're starting out as a filmmaker and you want to know what the secret sauce is, it is that connection, that emotional resonance.
Paranormal Activity just had it in spades because it felt intimate.
Security camera footage, realish people, right? They. They weren't superstar actors. You could immerse yourself in the experience.
You could believe along with them that this supernatural presence was really invading their home.
That was. That was a masterstroke. And so many movies followed up on that. Sinister is a really good example of a movie that was looking at the found footage horror genre that was so popular because of movies like Blair Witch and Paranormal Activity and kind of asking really interesting moral questions about what if you did find a snuff film?
[00:33:10] Speaker A: What if.
[00:33:11] Speaker B: What if it. What if a found footage horror movie just showed up in your basement? What would you do?
Yeah, move.
[00:33:19] Speaker A: I've learned enough of these movies. Dave immediately, spoiler alert.
[00:33:24] Speaker B: He tries and it doesn't work.
[00:33:29] Speaker A: I was like, it's the same thing with this Whole AI thing. I mean, we've all seen Terminator people. Do we all know how this is going to work out? Sure, sure, sure.
[00:33:36] Speaker B: So that's, you know, that's. That's really what it is, right? Is that investment, that connection, that emotional connection.
[00:33:42] Speaker A: It's true. And I think that. And this stem goes back to Jason's, you know, love for the. For the film, for film itself or horror films, for these genre films too, because the belief in Paranormal Activity and, you know, some of this going into it. But like I said, I learned a little bit more, a lot more reading this book. But like the belief in it and the love for the actual film itself, not for just, hey, if we remake this, it's going to make more money, yada, yada, yada. It was like, no, this film itself, like the actual film, the way it's made right now, with some edits and maybe some quick changes or some reshoots, is the film that's going to do well for this. Like, this is not like the story itself. If they had changed it out. I love Ethan Hawking in Sinister. Ethan's amazing. And in Black Phone, he's amazing. But if Ethan Hawke was the husband in this, it would have. My belief of it being quote, unquote, real would have been suspended. Because I know Ethan Hawke and this is not Ethan Hawke's house. And so, like, having these people that you don't know be these people in this house just added a whole nother level to this movie. And I think that. And then the belief in the actual project itself. And again, I've said it to my friends a million times, like, I don't know why people don't take chances more on horror films, because if you look at a lot of these films that are made for almost nothing and make a bunch of money, actually kind of funny that you would. It seems like it's a lot safer bet on a horror film than a romance film or something else.
[00:35:04] Speaker B: I think. I think now there are more people in Hollywood who see the way that you're seeing it, that people will come out, people will support this genre if done well, and that what they expect is risk taking. They expect to be surprised. They expect to be titillated, surprised. I said surprised already. They expect to be shocked and moved in some way that I think is now part of the calculus in Hollywood. And one of the reasons that that is the case is Blumhouse, because the model proved itself to be incredibly successful over the last 15 years. And there are movies that I wish we could have talked about in the book that we didn't have the room for. And that's because they take chances at Blumhouse, because they take risks on filmmakers and ideas. And if you look at something like Paranormal Activity on, you know, a grainy dvd, burned DVD copy of it, and you say, well, let's make it totally different, and you're kind of missing the point, right? Because you're not trusting the filmmaker. What you are doing is saying, how can we put this into a. A box that is simple and easy to understand based on our understanding of what the market is.
That is not how Blumhouse looks at things. The way they look at things is how do we support the filmmaker's vision? Do we believe in this filmmaker? Yes. Great. Let's make sure that that person can get out what they want to say in their film.
And they have a good sense of what the audience wants because they're talented.
They have their finger on the pulse of certain things.
You can't, you can't just make everything the same product, right? Because then people get kind of bored of it.
[00:36:57] Speaker A: And we've seen it in other, other, other genres or things like that where they just repeat the same thing but similar things over and over again. And they've slowly declined. Whereas some of these films, and we're in a, you know, a resurgence of horror. If you think about it right now too, the horror is big in all, you know, media formats. It's books, you know, comics, movies, games. The horror is big right now. And I'm glad because I think there's a, there's a, there's a story to be told. And I've always said that horror has like horror, romance and horror, sci fi and horror, there's always like these spin offs or branch offs, other genres that could be incorporated in this. I mean, I just read Remain from M. Night Shyamalan and Nicholas Sparks, which is a thriller, thriller, romance, supernatural romance, which is like. It was like one of those things where I'm like, I don't know how this is going to work, but I'm like, I'll trust these guys that know what they're doing. And it was phenomenal. And so there's this, there's this love for, for mixed genre, mix things. But like in all of these movies and all of these interviews that you discussed, obviously there is a discussion around Jason and the brains behind the top part of all of this. And I've always, I think a lot of these people live. We all live. Most of us live. If you can't say anything nice. Don't say anything at all. And so you didn't. They didn't need to say things nice about Jason in this book. Like, it's not like they, like we're doing something service to Jason, being like, I'm gonna say all these nice things about him. But a lot of people had nice things to say about Jason, and not just as a person, but as a filmmaker. And so is that. I mean, there's this. There's a central person in this, and Jason Blum is that person. Do you feel like all of these people mostly enjoyed working on these projects because of where they were, not just because of what they were?
[00:38:32] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, there's a story Mike Flanagan tells where he would talk about how he would just show up to the Blumhouse offices just for fun, just to hang out and talk to people.
That was like a clubhouse for him as he was coming up as a director. And he would be invited in to consult on other films and go to screenings and talk to other filmmakers in the kind of informal Blumhouse brain trust of trusted individuals who would be able to give good feedback.
It's a family in a lot of ways, and it's a big family. And you look at the people who stuck around for as long as they have. You know, it's not a revolving door of people. Obviously, people come and go through any company but Jason and Cooper, Terry Taylor, the casting director, you know, they have been around. Ryan Turek, so many people have been around and kind of been part of that, that family.
And the filmmakers keep coming back. You know, Scott Derrickson, he does Doctor Strange. Huge hit, massive, right. Gigantic Marvel movie. And when he decides he's going to bow out of Dr. Strange, to what? What does he do? Does he do another superhero movie? Does he do, you know, James Bond film? No, he goes back to Blumhouse. Mike Flanagan's always coming back to Blumhouse.
These people love working there and they love working with that brain trust, with that community of like minded creatives. Leigh Whannell keeps coming back.
James Wan and Jason are now in business relationship through the Atomic Monster partnership.
There's a reason for that, right? There's a real good reason for that. And it's because people are just comfortable being there and people appreciate Jason's generosity. There's a lot of little anecdotes here and there about his generosity, his concern for the filmmakers, his appreciation for them, and how he shows it in all kinds of different ways.
[00:40:38] Speaker A: And like I said, it started for the most part with this paranormal activity and really fighting to get that movie made. And I think other people see that. And that was the beginning. When I've always said to myself, in my mind I'm like, oh, I would stick to my guns.
But let's be honest, if I had a story and someone offered me the most horrible deal in the world, but my movie was going to be on screen, that'd be hard. Not for me to take it because of the fact that I just want that made. And so having this faith and know this is what needs to be made the way it needs to be made in order for it to be good and then have it to actually turn out to be successful, set the groundwork for the future for this stuff. I mean, he was able to go on to make movies like Tooth Fairy.
Yeah, exactly. But like with Dwayne Johnson though, there's these movies that are out there that are just funny that you think about that are Blumhouse, that I'm always in horror, but this is a horror book. So I want to talk about that too. But it's a great story overall because I love hearing when movies are made for not that much and they don't look, look like they're not made for that much, not that much and make a bunch of money because that's a success story that I would want to be part of. And so seeing this and seeing this put into one place, into a beautiful format like this too is awesome. Again, there is a quick Google search you can do for some of the stuff that's in here, which I recommend doing in general with things. If you're looking into a movie, you're like, oh, I wonder who's in this movie. Obviously go to IMDb or whatever and look up who's in a movie. But do you want like entrenched in the behind the scenes interviews, anecdotes like you mentioned, kill counts, jump scare counts, things like that imagery, cool fun things and fun facts about some of your favorite bum house movies. This is it where it's at. This was a such a fun read. It's one of those ones that I, I decided to discuss this with you. We discussed, you know, we scheduled this interview. So I was like, oh, make sure I make sure I read it before we discussed. It was on my docket to read it. But I was like, it was one of the most fun reads I've had though. Because like when you read. When I read things nowadays a little bit different. I need to think analytical, I need to think about reviewing and things like that. And like this was like one of those things. Like I don't want to write a review about this because I just enjoyed reading it so much. It was weird. But like I did. And it's five star. It's a phenomenally put together book.
And you know, and now I'm looking forward to other people reading it more and talking to them. So I'm going to be. It might be by some horror fans. I might be buying some Christmas presents for people.
[00:43:09] Speaker B: Every member of your family deserves a copy of this book. Every single one.
[00:43:12] Speaker A: Cousins, yes, everybody, Neighbors, husband and wife. They both need their own copy because one of them maybe wants to put in their car or the camper or work.
[00:43:21] Speaker B: Just hand them out to your Amazon drivers in the neighborhood. It'll be great.
[00:43:24] Speaker A: It's great. No, it's true.
Horror is an awesome genre in film.
And again, like I said, it's so surprising if some people who are not deep into film or love film itself may not understand or know that some of their favorite horror movies are actually have Blumhouse's name attached to it, which is pretty cool. I think that's one of those things. And there's that thread that you don't know is there. You don't know why is there. And then when you find out what that thread is and you're like, oh, it's Blumhouse. That makes a lot of sense.
[00:43:50] Speaker B: Yeah, I think. You know, another, another thing that I love about this book is if you are an aspiring filmmaker, if you are starting out in the industry, you really learn from conception to release what it's like to make a movie.
We're not completely granular about it, but for Truth or Dare we get into production for Ouija, we get into the lenses that were chosen and the specific 1970s style filmmaking techniques that were used. Because Mike Flanagan really wanted it to feel like one of those movies he loved from the 70s. Like the changeling finding out about the test screenings and how a test screening changed the, the kind of trajectory of Happy Death Day and, and how that ending changed because of. Of test screening marketing decisions.
How the Megan look and costume came to be which became so iconic. Now Megan is a character at Halloween Horror Nights at Universal Studios.
Those things are here. And you can really get a crash course in what it's like to make a movie in Hollywood from 15 years ago to today just from reading this book.
[00:45:14] Speaker A: And I think you mentioned, you said today, but it's tomorrow too because you mentioned in this book Black Phone and Black Phone 2 coming, Friday Nights at Freddy's Day 2 coming. And those movies that are coming on the horizon and what the cool thing is, is from, you know, Paranormal Activity, from, you know, the initial films in there, you're talking, you know, the Purge, you know, all those Moose Sinister, those earlier films in these, in this book, there's not much different going on. I mean that, there's not much of a difference of the process.
The movies are different because the movies are unique and things like that. But like the process themselves are lower budget quality films with quality people. And hopefully they are success. And I think that's what's going to happen in the future too. I think that this, this, this model you talk about is continuing and I think that the future of Blum Alice isn't going anywhere. If anything, it's going up. And I'm excited for that. I'm really excited to see what other films are being made from this family. You mentioned this, this, this group of.
[00:46:12] Speaker B: People stick around in 15 years for the sequel, Horror's newest wave.
[00:46:18] Speaker A: It's what they're gonna get someone else to write it though. Sorry. Oh, man.
[00:46:23] Speaker B: All right, well, fair enough. I mean, I had my crack at it.
[00:46:27] Speaker A: No, it's one of those things that like, hopefully it's. You're making it for the right reasons. If you do make it in 15 years, right, you're making it all for the right reasons, not for the money grab. It's because it needs to be told. It's the story that needs to be told.
[00:46:37] Speaker B: Story that needs to be told.
[00:46:38] Speaker A: But horrors New Wave 15 Years of Blumhouse is available at bookstores everywhere. If your local bookshop does not have it for some odd reason, tell them because they can get it. And so make sure that do that. We love bookshop.org because bookshop.org supports local bookstores. So if you just type your bookstore in that you like downtown, your area, you buy a buy it on there, they'll ship it to you and then they'll get a portion of that to the local bookstore. Same thing with Libro fm. If you're looking for an audiobook vers of it because you're on the go and you want to listen. This is available in audiobook. And again Librew FM donates or takes a portion of that sale and gives it to your local bookstore, which is really cool. So I'm excited for those two things. But honestly, just get it where you can get it. If it's available on Amazon, get it on Amazon, get it wherever you can get it. Because this is a phenomenal book. And like I said, if you're. If you're a person who likes a good coffee table book and you want to have discussions for people or you're trying to figure. Or even trying to figure out what movie you want to watch, show, open up your chapter, read that chapter, watch the movie, and get more out of your.
[00:47:34] Speaker B: Avoid the spoilers.
[00:47:36] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:47:36] Speaker B: Okay. ReadPoint. And then. Okay, now I'm gonna watch the movie or.
[00:47:40] Speaker A: Yes. Or watch the movie and then read about how it was made or things like that.
[00:47:45] Speaker B: That's the thing. I love doing that.
[00:47:47] Speaker A: Well, I'm so on My wife's like, what are you doing? I'm like, on my phone during a movie. Because I'm like, reading the Wikipedia. Yeah, this person was in another movie and, well, how was this made? And you're like, oh, my gosh, this is fascinating. So I'm all about it, and I think a lot of people are gonna be all about it. So, Dave, good job. Congratulations. It's phenomenal, and I'm excited for people to read it. Thank you so much for taking some time out of your day to come on here and chat about horror's new wave. We'll have you on again in the future. At some point, we'll chat movies and be nerd out a little bit here too, but. But thank you so much.
[00:48:13] Speaker B: My pleasure.
[00:48:15] Speaker A: Thanks, Dave.
[00:48:16] Speaker B: Thank.
[00:48:26] Speaker A: You, Ra.
