[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to the Capesand Tights podcast right here on Capesandtights.com, i'm your host, Justin Soderbergh. This episode is once again brought to you by our friends over at Galactic Comics and Collectibles at
[email protected] we welcome comic book writer Dan Waters to the podcast. Dan is known for his work on such comics as the Long Run on Nightwing and Lucifer. He's also known for his creator owned works such as Homesick Pilots and so much more. Recently Waters has written books like Dark Patterns over at DC Mask as part of the Energon universe and his issue of the Twilight Zone over at idw Dark and his ongoing TMNT Shredder comic book as well as over at idw. But DM was here to chat all those things and so much more. But until you listen to this episode, follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Blue sky threads, all those places. You can rate, review, subscribe over on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you find your podcasts. You can watch the video
[email protected] and as always, so much more
[email protected] but this is comic book writer Dan Waters talking TMT, Shredder Mask, Batman, Dark Patterns, the Twilight Zone, and so much more. Enjoy everyone.
Welcome to the podcast. Dan, how are you today?
[00:01:13] Speaker B: I'm good. Thanks so much for having me.
[00:01:15] Speaker A: Absolutely. I mean, you're a busy person, so thank you for taking some time out to chat with us.
[00:01:21] Speaker B: I am, yeah, it's, it's been a good year.
[00:01:24] Speaker A: Yeah, it's one of those things you like, look up comics and you're like, oh, wait, Dan did this one. Oh, he did this one. Oh, he did this one. It's a, it's a funny rabbit hole to go down.
[00:01:35] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, yeah, unfortunate in a
[00:01:38] Speaker A: bunch of different places too. So before we get too far into this, like, let's just try. I mean, what led you to write comics in the first place? Just a quick, you don't have to go onto the whole biography of you, but like, what was it? Childhood passion and all that stuff? Or is it just something that you found a, a home in instead of writing comics? Like, how did you get into writing comics?
[00:01:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I, I read sort of voraciously as a kid and comics were always a part of that. If not, not necessarily like the, the principal part of that.
And then as I sort of got older and I thought, oh my God, I'm gonna have to get an actual job writing Seemed like the, the easiest way to sort of escape that.
So I, I, I always really enjoyed it and I initially sort of directed myself towards film and then realized that I wasn't going to enjoy that so much just because it's too slow and you know you're going to work for, for two years on a project on one two hour project that might not even see the light of day and that didn't appeal.
And I was reading a lot of comments around the time I was in university so I sort of, I sort of started sort of edging that, that way and then I met, I met some, some like minded people who I'm still friends with today.
So that was kind of the, the nail in the coffin. Sort of Casper Wingard and Ron V and Alex Packadel and Ryan o'. Sullivan.
That's awesome.
[00:03:11] Speaker A: It's actually kind of funny. You're not the first person that I've chatted with that was in film who realized that I could do similar storytelling in the world of comics and not have to have a worry about budgets or the time it takes to make something or the fact that it might not ever see the light of day. That it's actually kind of funny how that transition happens quite often.
[00:03:32] Speaker B: Yeah, that was also very side that appealed to me that you could do sort of niche stuff because I was, you know, I was around the right age and I was discovering all the sort of, you know, Morrison's Doom Patrol and, and things like that that were sort of bringing me to, to new ideas or new to me.
And I didn't sort of, you know, of course you can do sort of nice stuff in film but your, your budget and revenue will probably reflect it and comics seemed more like the place to do niche stuff. And it's sort of funny how it's become more and more mainstream as I've sort of been here.
[00:04:11] Speaker A: And you've done, you've done creator own stuff, you've done big two stuff and a mixture of everything is that keep your mind fresh, you know, doing your own stories plus working with like intellectual property and, and creative ip.
[00:04:24] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean that's always kind of the goal is to do sort of, you know, one for me, one for them as it were. But yeah, I mean making your own stuff is, is wholly rewarding. But I like, I like doing the sort of, you know, I, I grew up reading all this kind of stuff so it's, it's, it's fun to sort of play in those sandboxes and sort of add, add a Bit to those tapestries as well.
[00:04:50] Speaker A: And some of those. It's not even like we talk to people. You have the opportunity to write creator own stuff or some sort of like, independent stuff that is all fresh, all new, different. Just stories that no one's ever heard of. But then there's like, yourself, who's done a little bit of everything, including IP that's also in the independent worlds, like Creatures of Black Lagoon and doing Mask and things like that. Like, you're actually getting a chance to write cool independent comics on IP that people know and are fans of. It's not just writing superheroes. It's all this other stuff that's pretty cool.
[00:05:22] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I'm getting the chance of reinvent stuff or sort of takes off a bit bit off kilter.
Has always been, I think part of the appeal and part of the thing that comics does so well. I mean, you can sort of, you know, sort of easy things to throw back to is like Swamp Thing and the. And the Anatomy Lesson and how that entirely like, turned it on its head. But there's also like. There's so much I love and so like, like 80s 90s, like dark horse Alien comics and stuff like that, you know, and you get to the point where you've got the. Try to remember the. The specific book, but the one where you have the sort of cyborg Xenomorph with like a massive assault rifle and a big cigar and you know, that kind of crazy stuff that was always very much like the comics.
So, yeah, I always love that stuff. So it's fun to get to try and make some of it.
[00:06:11] Speaker A: I can imagine it's now like this cool nostalgia almost too, that we're like, living in this world. We get to see these like, new Transformer comics and new, you know, stories based on the universal monsters and stuff like that. And they're all like, amazing and not. I loved your story of the creatures of Black Lagoon, but, like, they're all good. Like there's nothing. There's never a miss in this. In this universal monsters world we're living in right now, there hasn't been a miss.
[00:06:33] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think. I think we're. We're probably also in a kind of era. And you know, specifically the stuff mentioned is the. The Skyline books that. The Android Universe, the Universe, Monster stuff, and Skybound in particular definitely has a sort of ethos of, you know, you treat these things like, as.
As sort of with as much reverence and as much import as you kind of can, you know, none of them are sort of just books that sort of flung out because someone has the license, you know,
[00:07:07] Speaker A: you. But like I said, it's. It's the Transformers. It's. It's universal monsters. It's been D.C. stuff. But you had a chance to. To work on a reinvention of sorts of Shredder, a very iconic TMNT character. Like a character that a lot of us know who, or even fringe fans know Shredder as a villain in tmnt. But that hasn't been explored as much as maybe people had hoped in comics. Getting a chance. Matthias Santa Lucco got a chance to redesign what he looks like as well. What's this experience about working in the TMNT world and working with Shredder along the way?
[00:07:45] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, that's been fun. Like, it's, you know, it's not too much of a reinvention in that universe because that book's been running for 300 issues, the, the main Turtles book. And it was very much, you know, picking up Shredder where he left off in that. In that story, but trying to sort of return him, you know, over 300 issues. Someone. Someone's taken quite an emotional journey, so bring him back to something sort of recognizable and someone who, who just has a vague understanding of the character can pick up trailer issue one and it feels like a recognizable character. I mean, I love doing books like that where you sort of take the focus on someone who either we hate for granted or may perceive as a bit two dimensional and then really like, flesh them out.
And I also like villains. Like, writing bad guys is the most fun, in my opinion.
[00:08:40] Speaker A: Well, I think that's also like one of the things we didn't see. It's not like the world of comics is overwhelmed with. With villain comics either. It's like a lot of it has to do with the hero or the, or the, or the, you know, lead of the. Of the story. You don't get to see a lot of times, like these offshoots. I've always said that I would love to have seen, like an offshoot of, of Negan in the Walking Dead, just a storyline that's just based on him. I know there has been stories that have been told about Negan prior to the. The series and all that stuff, but, like, I don't just taking it and just being like, we're going to run with this Negan story I've always wanted to see. And so, like, seeing Shredder again, one of the most iconic villains in tmnt it's really cool to see a comic book that's titled Shredder. Like, it's just like a Shredder story. And like you said, it's not a reinvention, but it's like, it's a. I say reset, but like a place to start fresh, like you said. I think issue number one was a place where you could definitely jump in and go, okay, I don't know much about what happened 300 issues, but now I do.
[00:09:37] Speaker B: Yeah, I always, I always want my stories to feel like that as well.
You know, you are sort of. You're always writing into an always. But when you're doing these kind of things in general, you're writing into sort of broader tapestry.
But I always want the stakes and the story that I'm telling to be self contained in itself. Just because I think that's part of doing your job is to. Is to make sure that the story you're telling itself is, is self contained. And I think that just goes back to, you know, the sort of books that I really loved and that brought me in, which is, you know, a lot of the sort of like, like you could read any of like Frank Miller's Daredevil without having read any other Daredevil. And most. I think a lot of people did, you know, and I go back to the sort of Claremont Miller Wolverine as a lot of Miller. The Claremont Miller Wolverine, which was like my first introduction to that character. And you know, he was fully in the X Men and everything at that point. But the book itself, you didn't need any of that. You didn't need to know it.
You could just, you could just pick it up and read it. And I always kind of want that to be. The experience is available to people, which
[00:10:49] Speaker A: I'm glad, Glad you do that. And as a reader myself and as a fan of comic books myself, it's hard sometimes. Like, if you feel like you get behind on something, you're just like, okay, I guess I lost my opportunity to read this book anymore. Anything that comes out connected to it in the future, I'm just not gonna be able to get a get ahold of because I didn't read the other stuff.
Giving yourself the foundation so people who are fans of this comic can read it and love it and enjoy it. But also those people maybe haven't read the 300 issues of, you know, TMNT or other issues like that. It's nice to have a little like, I can just read this comic if I want to and enjoy stories about Shredder Yeah.
[00:11:26] Speaker B: I mean, you know, you always hope for that. We talk about jumping on points a lot in the industry, but I do think we're in sort of completist era, where people are used to having access to the entire backstory. And you do see people now sort of know, like.
Like, it's been cool to see, like, with absolute Batman and then the Batman Dark Patterns book that we did. And there's. And I've seen people say sort of like, oh, you know, I want to read these, but do I need to start in 1939 or 1929? Like, you know, like. Like. Like, people are going to try and read Batman through sort of Detective Comics 15. And, you know, I don't think that was ever before you would even consider that an option or a possibility.
[00:12:17] Speaker A: It's. It's also cool because, like, in certain comics these days, these offshoot comics that focus around one character as a. As a title, maybe it's not just Shredder in this sense or a villain, but, like, getting a story as Shredder. You get an opportunity to read more about Shredder. Like, you get the emotional connection you get. Sometimes you might not get in the main storyline because the storyline is about the four Turtles or that story. Like, you get actually, like, there's an emotional part of this. There's a. There's a struggle for Shredder in this. In this series.
Is that something, like, where you can, like, deep dive into one character and then. Then build around that? Is that, like, exciting to you?
[00:12:53] Speaker B: Yeah, I think. Also, like, with that book in particular, I didn't want to sort of.
It's been sort of fun to stay out of Shredder's head somewhat. Like, Like, I saw very much see him as a man of few words and. And, you know, as a man of action, but he. We never. We never get inside.
In the book.
I have, you know, so we have narration, capture, like, other characters and stuff, but never from him.
And I kind of like that in terms of he's this sort of.
You know, he's this piece of stone, this piece of steel that's just kind of. You know, he's very pragmatic and sort of stuff. But what it does let us do, and especially having one main character rather than four, that you have to kind of juggle and make sure everyone gets. Gets their sort of moment in the sun, is it lets us explore that world a little bit more. And that's a really fun thing to do. Just in terms of, like, the Turtles universe being extremely Weird and built on foundations of every piece of cult media that Eastman and Laird enjoyed. And then that's been added to, you know, over and over, you know, decades.
And so there's sort of all these, like, layers of science and sci fi and interdimensional stuff and magic and hollow Earth, and there's everything you could sort of ask for is sort of available to you in the Turtles universe. So sort of exploring that a little broader, I think is something that this book that's us do in the first issue.
[00:14:36] Speaker A: I don't like, obviously, the first trades coming out here pretty soon in stores everywhere, I believe in August. And so I think that I don't want to spoil a bunch of it. But the cool thing about the first issue, I think you get to the end of the first issue, and he actually gets to see the transformation, actually. Shredder wearing his actual, like, the new kind of look to what he has. What I loved about that was like, someone had designed a suit for him to wear, and he was like, well, screw this. I'm going to take this piece, this piece, and this piece, and this is what I'm going to wear, and this is that you're going to like it. I thought it was cool because you saw, like, him actually making his own look, in a sense, and deciding to do that. I thought that was a pretty cool little, like, twist on what you see sometimes in comics where someone else designs a costume for someone or some sort of armor or something for someone. They ended up just wearing it. It was kind of cool.
[00:15:23] Speaker B: Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, it was. It was. It was definitely the sort of mission statement of the book in terms of Shredder being. Having been through this sort of stuff in the. In the main book. And he'd been sort of, you know, consort to a goddess and. And. And sent to all these different dimensions and, you know, reborn and. And killed, and he done Shredder in hell and. And all of this stuff, and it kind of just for him to be like, I'm just cutting that stuff to the bone. I don't want your tech, I don't want your magic. I don't want any of this. I don't need any of it because I'm the Shredder. And that was very much the sort of mission statement that was, you know, very much what I pitched the book as.
[00:16:12] Speaker A: And it works. And again, like I said, it's cool when you're focusing on this one villain.
It was cool to see throughout the first volume that it wasn't like you forced the turtles into it either. It's like, focus was on this storyline that you're telling, and not like, oh, we have to throw the turtles in here now, because this is a turtles book. It was nice to see that there was more to this story than just this is Shredder fighting the turtles.
[00:16:38] Speaker B: Yeah. Because, again, there's so much more to that world. There's so much sort of. Sort of wild stuff to sort of point towards. And so taking the focus away from the turtles just lets us do that. You know, is it.
[00:16:51] Speaker A: Do you find people that are upset about that, or is it just like they're. They're happy with the way the book turned out? Like, are you finding people upset that there isn't more turtles in these books?
[00:16:59] Speaker B: No, I haven't. I can't really encountered that.
I think there's, you know, there's. There's a couple of turtle books running at all times, so if you want your turtles fix, you can get it, and they're good.
[00:17:12] Speaker A: So it's not like. It's like you need to. I guess you need to come over. Like, you can read those books and read these books as well. But, yeah, it's. It's a. It's cool. But you're, like, rewriting characters that are in these other worlds that are not the main thing. Like, you got Mask, you're doing right now as well, Nightwing, all those stories that you're writing, like the Batman story or the Energon story or the turtle story, but, like, not the main story is. It's fun. I feel like it's fun to play in these other playgrounds with these other characters. Is that something that you find excitement with, too? It's like we mentioned earlier.
[00:17:45] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:45] Speaker A: I mean, I think.
[00:17:46] Speaker B: Yeah, they're always different. And what I did enjoy is having the sort of raw material to play with. Like, we've been given quite a lot of leeway with with stuff like Mask and Shredder, honestly, where there are big swathes of these universes that aren't necessarily, like, mapped out yet.
And so there's been sort of space to pitch some quite big swings and some quite, you know, foundational stuff in terms of how do these worlds function and being able to sort of, like, dig into that. And you're using the sort of raw material of these franchises to do that, which is always, you know, it's. It's a lot easier to.
To. To mess around and remix stuff that's already there rather than make stuff up from whole clothes.
Not necessarily.
[00:18:52] Speaker A: Oh, sorry. Okay. Sorry, I had a little glitch there. But yeah, it's. To me, I'm always like, I'm a fan of these main series. Like, I'm a fan of, like, Void Rivals and I'm a fan of the Transformers and that stuff, the Energon, that stuff is going on. But to me, I'm always like, I always want more, if that makes any sense. But I'd always don't always want more with that specific main storyline. Sometimes I want offshoots. And that's where Shredder originally just grasped me. A lot of times you see titles or covers, at least in Santa Luca's artwork on these covers are phenomenal. For the Shredder line is that draws you in too. But I'm always like, I want more turtles, but I don't really want more turtles. I want other stories that happen in that world. And so the same thing goes with Mask and some of these other stories is I want more. And the more you can give me, as long as it's quality, I want more of this stuff. And so to me, I've always questioned, grasped onto these offshoot type things like, you know, coming up here pretty soon with Exquisite Corpses, they got the, the, you know, Rascal Randy and you're doing the. The other stories about the other. The characters that are in there. I want more of that. And so that's what I really get with with Shredder and with. With something like Mask is I get more of the universe without having to be the main universe, if that makes any sense.
[00:20:02] Speaker B: Oh, thank you. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, it. It generally is about wanting more of a certain tone and a certain quality is what I just sort of hope it is.
And then. So it's. Then it's just about the creative things on the, on those books trying to match what's happening and the sort of stuff that's come before.
[00:20:23] Speaker A: Are you. There's been plenty of. There's of.
[00:20:26] Speaker B: There's.
[00:20:27] Speaker A: The 13th issue of Shredder is solicited for October. Are you still. Is this going to. As long as you can go, do you see it? Do you have an end of where you'd like to wrap this up at? Some. Not saying you have it and you can tell me about it. I'm just saying, like, in your mind, do you have a place that you're going towards that? Like, okay, this is where I want to get to?
[00:20:44] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I mean, we've. We've sort of planned it as 18 so far, but initially we planned it as 12. So it sort of was getting. As we were getting close to 12, I sort of had a idea for where to sort of land shredder at issue 12. And it was a sort of thing of. I pitched it and I wasn't sure if I was going to get told to just absolutely not do that, you know, pivot to something else.
But it was like in the room that they were like, we like this and actually we want to see where that goes afterwards. So. So we added another arc. So 18 is certainly at the moment the plan.
[00:21:25] Speaker A: It's a nice three trade issues. Three trades at six issues each works out well too, and all that stuff. The trade hitting in August, I'm hoping to see more people jump onto it too. And it's been successful. In my local comic book shop, they've been selling out most issues, which is a small shop. But like, at least it's cool to see that, you know, we have Turtle fans that just built an audience for one thing. And then the people who again want to jump on and learn about maybe they saw Shredder in the movies and they just thought, oh, this is kind of cool. I want to pick up this, this, this issue from idw. It's a pretty cool thing to be attached to, in my opinion. If it was me, that's. I'd be like, pinch moment where I'm like, I got to write Shredder.
[00:22:00] Speaker B: Yeah, it's been, it's been a really fun book and I really enjoyed to write it every month.
Right. Ish. 15 next week. So. Yeah.
[00:22:09] Speaker A: So you're right there.
[00:22:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:11] Speaker A: I mean, is it fun? I mean, like you've done miniseries, you've done longer series runs and stuff like that. Is it fun to do this one? That's like kind of in between. Like the 18 issues is like, it's like not ongoing. Ongoing, but it's like it's not a five issue miniseries. It's like a little bit more room to breathe in or.
[00:22:27] Speaker B: I mean, it's been an interesting thing. I didn't. I've never done many ongoings until. So fairly recently because that just didn't.
Wasn't the shape of the medium for a lot of people for a long time. It didn't, didn't really have the sort of support to do that. So I did quite a few miniseries at DC and that image and these sort of things and so more of a sort of thing of learning how to write these longer sprawling things rather than sort of, you know, shove everything into, into the, into the one Book, I still sort of think in Ox. So I guess, I guess it's kind of that like we could have been the shredder at 12 and it would have been like, hey, we've set up this new status quo and, and you know, we're out.
But now, you know, we get this Albany status quo and we get to spend an arc exploring it and sort of building it up and things especially. Is also the thing with these, with these universes and things as well is, you know that you're also,
[00:23:36] Speaker A: you're.
[00:23:36] Speaker B: Yes. Anding stuff. You know, you're, you're sort of taking what said before. Yes. And now this happens. But, but also setting that up for whoever comes after. So setting up Shredder so he's in a certain status quo when we leave a book behind.
But that means that this will be the status quo that he will return to the, the, the main title win with.
And that kind of, that also kind of takes some pressure off in terms of you don't need to wrap like bow and everything.
You don't need to end, you don't need to set it up and end it.
I think sometimes there's, there's a little too much instinct to sort of do that sometimes. I think it's like, hey, you know, you, you can play with this now.
[00:24:23] Speaker A: You have to put them in a spot where it doesn't make the readers that, of that 18 issues upset that there's a cliffhanger of some sort. But like you also leave it up that the story of Shredder is going to continue somewhere else.
[00:24:36] Speaker B: Yeah, you need to finish telling the story you're actually telling for sure.
[00:24:40] Speaker A: So you have 18 issues or whatever. Right now you're at, like I said, you're writing more right now. But then you also, the other side of things, especially over at IDW where you write a single short story, basically a single issue of the Twilight Zone. And so you got both sides of these things. I mean, is there this like succinct one issue story like in the Twilight Zone that also is exciting to write?
[00:25:00] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I, I, I do like that. I really like doing, I did, I, I've done a lot and you know, you tend to get this as a new, as a new writer, you get sort of tested out on shorts.
So I've written, you know, I've, I've written more like six page stories than I, I care to remember, but I learned to really enjoy that. Like just six pages. You have so little real estate. You have so little sort of there's so little space to mess around in or make mistakes or whatever. It's like writing it genuinely. It's like writing poetry because you have six pages worth of images and words and, and you have to utilize them as best as you possibly can to tell something that feels complete and feels satisfying.
And I feel like that's such a good way to learn craft and learn the medium and still like, if I get asked to do it, I, I don't always have time, but if I, if I can, I kind of will because I, I just like, I like, it's, it's such a good like, exercise. And the one issue story is, is similar to that. It's, you know, same principle. If you're used to writing sort of 5, 6, 18 issue things at this point, writing something that's in and out in 22 pages or 20 pages, it's, it's a fun sort of challenge and it sort of forces you to cut any fat from the bone.
Also, like my big, I'm a big horror person, like a big horror like reader and, and writer and I've always found that short stories has always been where horror has flourished more than, more than anyone.
Sort of get in, it's like telling a joke, you know, you get in, you tell your punchline, you get out, you build attention, you release the tension in a way that's hopefully unexpected and then you're out. And if you have to keep building that again, that's a whole different kettle of fish to just being able to sort of go like, hey, here's one well crafted, nasty little tail with a sting in its tail.
[00:27:22] Speaker A: Yeah. And then you, you, you have a darker side of a lot of the things that you're, the stories you're telling as well. You're, you're talking about villains. You're doing horror stories here too. The horror connection is there, but like Twilight Zone specifically are. We were like a fan of Twilight Zone. Did you have a story that was like this story could be a Twilight Zone story if I'm ever asked to write one. Or is this something that came up with after IDW and the IDW Dark line came and said was like, hey, Dan, we want you to do a comic with us.
[00:27:46] Speaker B: Yeah, it was definitely the latter.
I don't know that I would. Yeah, necessarily, because, because there is a certain, there's a certain feel, there's a certain aspect to Twilight Zone which is, you know, it's not going to be something that's super gory necessarily. It's going to be something that's sort of psychologically focused and generally kind of sociologically aware because it, it all goes back to Ron Selling, who was, you know, the master.
So there's, there's all of that to a Twilight Zone. But then really what Twilight Zone was, is a, is a mark of quality. So I don't know that I would have, I would have written a story or come up with something, you know, before being asked to do Twilight Zone and being like, hey, this is Twilight Zone story that I'm going to put in my back pocket in case I'm ever asked to write this, you know, 60 year old franchise.
Not, not really how my, how my brain works so much, but being asked to do one, it was definitely sort of like, okay, this has to be, has to be all those things. It has to be good.
And then I ended up pitching, I think I, I was asked to pitch a few and I was like, can I just pitch one? They went, no.
So I pitched a few and the one that, that they went for blanks, it ended up fighting back on the page a lot, which is something you kind of predict when that's going to happen. Where the sort of thing I pitched was then just, just didn't want to play ball with me.
So it was, it was quite, it was quite a, a tricky one to write. And I could sort of feel Rod Sterling over my shoulder. Oh, don't do that. Don't do that with a cigarette.
So, you know, so getting it, getting it, getting it done and getting it, getting it to a place where I thought it was good enough to, to be a Twilight Zone story was definitely.
It was, it was, it was a bit of a tough one. But then, but then when it was finally done and then, and then Morgan being drew it, oh my God, she's incredible. And just such a, such a perfect pick for that story and for that, for that universe. Just because.
Wouldn't have been the obvious route to take, but absolutely was like the perfect
[00:30:16] Speaker A: choice that Morgan's artwork and just like the, the creepiness of it too just adds to the whole, adds the whole story itself. But did you know you were gonna be issue one?
[00:30:27] Speaker B: Yeah. And that was, that was the actual level of like, of like, oh, my show was like, don't ruin this for everyone else.
[00:30:34] Speaker A: No one's gonna buy issue two after Dan gets a hold of it now.
[00:30:39] Speaker B: Yeah, but it's got 18 issues so far, so I think we didn't, we
[00:30:43] Speaker A: didn't screw, we didn't screw it up too bad right now. No, I think it's connection. I do think that. And I've talked about this with some other people. This is like, I'm in a point in, in my comic reading and talking to people on the podcast and things like that where, like, there's certain creators you gravitate towards, no matter what the story really is. You're like, okay, at least I'm going to give it a glimpse. But because Dan's attached to this, or I'm giving it a glance because Morgan's attached to this, not to mention the additional things like the publisher or the storyline, like Twilight Zone having that connection to it. But like, when I see things come together where I'm like, okay, I'm really a big fan of idw. I'm a big fan of the Twilight Zone. Oh, Dan's writing it. Oh, Morgan's doing the illustrations. Like, that's like a whole, like, home run for me in a sense. And so. And then when the story was the way it was, in the eeriness of what your story is. But what Twilight Zone in general can be in the unsettling, and you're done with it, you almost feel dirty. Not like grossed out, but you almost just feel like sucks that the world we live in is the world we live in type thing.
Because there is this sociological connectivity to these stories that come out and there's this one, living forever is a thing. And to be honest with you, we were talking the other day, I went to an 80th birthday party yesterday for a friend's mom. And I was like, I don't know, man, 80 sounds like old. I don't know if I want to be there.
[00:32:00] Speaker B: No, you'll get there quicker than you, quicker than we think. It all goes quicker than you think.
[00:32:06] Speaker A: But yeah, there's this eeriness and this unsettlingness to, to. To Twilight Zone in general. But your story, your story specifically. Specifically.
[00:32:12] Speaker B: Oh, thank you. That's definitely what was trying to sort of capture like an uncanniness, like, and sort of unnervingness is definitely. And I think, you know, I think that's sort of really added to by that sort of post war era that, that the original series launched and everything's very sort of buttoned up. Everyone's very polite, but there's all of these simmering horrors, like right under the surface. And I think that's just what life was like back then. You know, I mean, I mean, yes, I was going to say it's kind of like that today, but it's not very buttoned up. Anymore. It's all just sort of baseball caps and screaming at each other.
[00:32:46] Speaker A: So, you know, it's like that. And it's also really cool. Like these anthologies like hello Darkness, you've done a story for it too. But all these anthologies that are horror related as well as this Twilight Zone. It's also fun because you get just heavy hitters writing these stories and illustrating these stories too. Like what. It's, it's you and Morgan, but it's along with the other people that are in this, like this first volume.
It's like your name gets to be put against all these great creators as well. It's all cool to see that. Like one to buy that trade and be like, these are all the creators that are in this book. Which is really cool.
[00:33:18] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, yeah, it was no pressure.
[00:33:22] Speaker A: It's. It's. You got. But you've also tackled like, was it more pressure tackling things like Batman and Dark Matter, like dark patterns or more pressure writing a Twilight Zone story?
[00:33:36] Speaker B: I don't know. It's. It's not.
[00:33:38] Speaker A: They're detrimental.
[00:33:40] Speaker B: Yeah, I try not to, I try not to worry.
The, the sort of, the, the truth of it is I think if you write from a place of fandom, you're probably going to do a bad job.
[00:33:59] Speaker A: I can see that for sure.
Well, it's true. You, you, you don't want to owe the people too much. So you don't want to like there's too much pressure in intellectual property stories anyway from, from the fandom.
You're not gonna write a story from a place of stupidity, in a sense.
Bad word for that. But like when people like crap all over. Like, oh, the Star Trek comics are not the comics that I'm expecting to be.
The people writing these stories are also fans of these stories. Like, you're not gonna write a Twilight Zone story if you're not a fan of the Twilight Zone.
[00:34:32] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, yeah. I mean, I think there is a sort of thing of like, you need to, you need to look at what works about it, but it's what works about it and people want to see from it, you know, or they think they want to see aren't necessarily the same thing. And also people don't want, they don't all want the same thing from, from a franchise, you know, like at all.
And, and you learn that pretty quick by doing it.
Is. Is every, every story you do someone's favorite and will ruin someone else's childhood? It's part and parcel.
[00:35:11] Speaker A: That's part. Part of writing Stories in the public. You know, if you write stories and keep them in your closet, no one ever sees them, then you're not gonna piss anybody off but yourself.
Writing a story and putting it out in public, someone's gonna. In the world we live in, someone's not gonna like it, and it's just the way it is. But I thought one of the biggest things you can hang your hat on is when you finish a story, like when you're working on Shredder or you're working on Mask or any of these things, and at the end of it, you go, that felt like a story that belonged to there. And at the end of reading your story in the Twilight Zone and the rest of them is, all it made me want to do is watch the Twilight Zone. And so, like, that, to me, is the thing. If I read your story and it made me not want to watch the Twilight Zone, that's a bad job, in my opinion. But when I finish these stories in these Twilight Zone first volume, specifically, it made me want to go, you know what? I want to watch the Twilight Zone because I miss seeing episodes X, Y and Z or whatever. That, to me, is where. Where you can be like, you did a good job. You can hang your hat on. Be like, I did a job that I'm supposed to be doing. It felt like an episode of the Twilight Zone, which is exactly what you guys were trying to do.
[00:36:12] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think that goes back to, you know, it's not. It's not treating as a fan, but treating it as, like, as a creator, you know, looking at what works about it and what doesn't, sort of critically and systematically and. And sort of using the.
The building blocks of what makes a Twilight Zone episode work. And obviously what I think makes a Twilight Zone episode work is going to be different to what some other people think it is still going to be colored by, you know, how I view it as a fan. But it's not just about sort of trying to go in, like, as a fan and be like, you know, this is. This is what it should be.
[00:36:52] Speaker A: And really, let's be honest, you don't really have to twist my arm to watch Twilight Zone again. Like, it's not, like, it's not something you have to be like, hey, sit down and watch this thing. I'm like, okay, I guess I have to watch it again. No, it's fun. And so you have been working on, like I said, a lot of the IP stuff that's coming out and stuff like that big two stuff Cool franchises that are in independent comics and things like that. You look back and go, do you feel lucky that someone trusts you with their titles?
[00:37:19] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
It's nice now as well that I feel like I've kind of established what I do in terms of how I approach things and stuff. So I generally hope or assume that if someone comes to me and asks something to write a thing, they kind of know what they're gonna get.
So it's about sort of doing what I do and seeing how that meshes with this world or that world or the other, and that. That's part of the fun, for sure.
[00:37:57] Speaker A: You have. You're always. You said, I mentioned off the top, you're. You're very busy. You got a lot of things. You're in a different. You got a lot of different things going on. You have dark patterns. Just came out this year in trade, which is awesome.
You have Mass coming out every week here. Gets Shredder coming out every week or every month. I mean, I should say every month. Yeah, not every week. Every month.
But you also have the first volume of Shredder, comes out in August, August 4th.
So check that out, people. You can tell your local comic book shop you want it. But also a cool thing about. I always love about talking about trades is that say you don't have a local comic book shop near you, but you have a local bookstore. Tell your local bookstore, because trades are in the book market. So, like, you can tell your bookstore owner, hey, I'm really into Shredder. Can you buy the Shredder one for me? So I can buy it? Which is really cool. Makes a little bit more accessible for people because not everybody has one. I live in Maine here in the United States, and we have this long drives between comic book shops, Dan. Like long drives between comic book stores. And there's people that live in between those long drives. And so they're not as easily accessible to. To get your. Your floppy comics or things like that. And so sometimes people do wait for the trades. And there's a lot more bookstores in Maine than there are comic book stores. And so those things are always one of those things. And I always feel like local comic book shops are awesome, but when I have a person that I've talked to in the podcast and I go into like a big box bookstore, like a Bam or a Barnes and Noble, and I see their trade on the shelf, I'm always like, you made it.
I don't know why, but I'm always like, you're here now. You're in this store with, like, you know, Stephen King books are here, and you're like, oh, there's Dan's trade for shredder is also on the show. I don't know. It's just cool to see. And so, yeah, do that. Twilight Zone comes up in September.
[00:39:36] Speaker B: My mom always texts me.
She finds one of my bits.
[00:39:42] Speaker A: I'm a creative director for a brewery by day, and so, like, I design beer cans and beer labels and stuff like that. And I still have people who are like, dude, I saw your can of beer in the grocery store. I'm like, yeah, I know. And I look at the canning line, and we're like, we've packaged 4 million cans of beer. I'm like, oh, my God, that's a lot of labels. That's a lot of my work that's out there. And I don't know. I don't know if I like that or don't like that. I don't know. But it's a. It's a crazy thing. But, yeah, I can see that happening where you're like, I've had people. I've had luckily. Luckily enough to have pull quotes put on the back of trades. And I've had friends who are like, dude, you're. You're. You're quotes on a book that's in Barnes and Noble. And I'm like, it's not my book. So I'm happier for the people who write. I wrote a nice quote about it because I like the book so much, so you should buy it. But, yeah, that's. That's the way it is. It's. It's kind of funny. I love it that your mom still texts you about that. That's really cool.
September 1st is Twilight Zone from IDW, and you got Shredder coming out, first volume and still hitting shelves. Go by Dark patterns. It's a phenomenal Batman stories.
The cool thing about this thing, and
[00:40:45] Speaker B: just touching up before we follow up
[00:40:47] Speaker A: here, I meant to say something earlier about it when you mentioned about good jumping on points is my local comic book shop does a book club.
And so we wrote a new trade paperback every month, and we discussed it at the end of the month and so on. And what's been harder and harder is we do a lot of independent comics because the independent comics have issues one through five, and that's it. They're done, it's wrapped up, or there's a second volume, but it's like, you don't need to have a lot of, like, preconceived knowledge to go into them. Trying to read DC or Marvel for most of the universe, it's like having to pick a story, even one that's like a spit. Even a Shredder comic book, for example, for idw, you still need to have something going into it. So laying that small foundation to allow someone to be like, I got an idea. What's going on is always a good thing for things like this because like I said, the book club, it ends up having people who maybe haven't followed things the whole way along. And so I'm proud of certain comics that make me go, you know what? I didn't really need to know anything. I'm glad I did know stuff going into this, but I didn't really need to. We could discuss this at a book club because people know the characters. We've made the mistake before. We're like, I don't know, reading a book and someone's like, I didn't know all the Spider man villains or whatever. And we're like, oh, that sucks. And so, yeah, so it is nice to have that place, that foundation to be like, here's this and go with it. And so I'm proud of comics that do that.
[00:42:09] Speaker B: It's always a tricky bounce to sort of. Because it's also, I think, easy. It's so easy once you're sort of in the thing to. To be too close to it and sort of assume that everyone knows, you know, what. What's going on or who, who, you know, Electro is or, you know, like, it's, it's. It's.
It's easy to get sort of sucked into that trap. But doing, yeah, books, like, whatever, that was very much the sort of point, of course, to go like, hey, like. And the nicest thing, the nicest thing that, That I ever hear about that because people who tell me, like, either it was their first Batman comic or it was, you know, they really like Batman, but they like the book.
That's. That's always, like, really cool here.
[00:42:57] Speaker A: Well, I mean, that's huge. I think. I feel like now in this book club, we're going to be reading all of the absolute stories because of the fact that you could pretty much start from fresh enough to worry about it. And so, like, to me, I was just absolute Batman. It was like one of the few ones we've had. Like, I've been doing this book club with them for, like, four, three years. And I want to say in three years, like three times, it's been like, all 15 people have been like, yes, this book was amazing. Like, it's always been like, that one person who's just like, I didn't like the book or it just didn't land with me, whatever. But, like, there's been few books. I think something's Killing the Children, Volume 1. And I think that, like, I don't remember the other ones, but, like, I know for sure Absolute Batman was one of those. Everybody was like, yep, this is exactly what I want. I loved Absolute Green Arrows. So I'm hoping that people feel the same way about. About Porn Sack's book there, which is. Which is phenomenal, too. But I say read anything by you for sure. But, like, be honest with you. Coming up here, if you want to get something fresh and new, you got. You got IW's TMNT, Shredder, and the Twilight Zone. Your stories in the Twilight Zone trade coming out. And then again, I highly recommend people read Dark Patterns, the Batman story, if you're. If you're looking for a Batman story, but you're all out there on a bunch of stuff, so.
So just type your name in Dan Waters on Facebook, Google. I mean, you'll find all the comics that you've been writing.
If you're a fan of Dan's writing, you'd be a fan of everything. Right?
[00:44:17] Speaker B: But I think I kind of do what I do. Chris. Chris. But try not to repeat myself. That's the thing.
[00:44:26] Speaker A: That's good. I'm glad. Well, I think it's like, I think you are one of the writers that I do feel like I just connect with the writing, which is nice. So, like, it doesn't really matter what story you're telling. I can tell it's a. Your story that you're doing it, but not in a way that's like, oh, my God, it's another dance story. It's just. It works out well. I think that's what.
[00:44:44] Speaker B: I don't know.
[00:44:44] Speaker A: I just connect with it. And that's why. It's one of the reasons why I reached out to Kim over at IDW and said, I want to talk to you because I feel like you're a phenomenal writer and I want you to keep it up. And I don't if I can help you the smallest amount.
I want people to read your books. So I'm glad you're here to chat with us, to take time out of your busy schedule to chat comics with us. But, yeah, I think anybody who's a TMNT fan should read Shredder. But even if you're not read Shredder and if you want creepy eerie stuff and stuff like the Twilight Zone and read your short story or your one issue in Twilight Zone grab that trade and then again I would highly recommend Dark Patterns to anybody who wants a Batman story story and I haven't got a chance. I was I meant to last night but this has been a crazy fourth of July here in the United States and stuff like that so like I gotta read Mask and I haven't got a chance to it's over here in a stack and so I will be reading that soon too but yeah on Wednesday. There you go I'll grab that too But I really appreciate it Dan for you taking the time out chatting comics with us and at some point in the future we'll get you back on but until then keep writing good comics. How about that?
[00:45:41] Speaker B: Yeah thanks so much It.
