Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to another episode of the Capes and Tights podcast right here on Capesandites.com. I'm your host, Justin Soderberg. And this I don't know if you can see my face right now, if you're watching this or you can feel the expression on my face, is one of my favorite episodes we've ever done on this podcast. I will gush you. I will be a fanboy for a moment here because an icon of mine decided to join the podcast today. A person who I've looked up for, an idol, someone who's on my Mount Rush Marvel comic books of all time, as well as one of the greatest artists of all time. Also joining us is brian. Michael bendis and Alex Malive joined us to talk about their upcoming book over at dark horse comics masterpiece. But Brian Michael Bendis has been one of my biggest favorite writers of all time when he did Secret Invasion, New Avengers, House of M, all that stuff over at Marvel, and his and Alex's duo together for Daredevil and all the other stuff that they've worked on together, Scarlet and so on. So this new book, Masterpiece, hits local comic book shops on December 13 from Dark Horse Comics. This was Brian Michael Bennett. Alex may leave Ian Herring as colors and Joshua Reed on letters. You need to pick this book up. But this is one of my favorite episodes right here on the Capes and Tights podcast. So please enjoy it. But before you do, follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Blue Sky, subscribe Rate review all that stuff over on Spotify, Facebook, I'm sorry, Spotify and Apple and all your major podcasting me. And if you'd like, go to YouTube and follow us over there on our channel, on YouTube as well for the video portion of this podcast. But this is Brian Michael Bedness, comic book legend and amazing, extraordinary artist Alex Malev right here on the Capes and Heights podcast. Enjoy, everyone.
Now that we're recording.
[00:01:52] Speaker B: Now tell the George Sakai I'm going.
[00:01:55] Speaker C: To click leave meeting right now.
If I'm not allowed to have ice.
[00:02:01] Speaker B: Cream, can I at least eat your ice cream? Eat your ice cream.
[00:02:04] Speaker A: I got just don't say who the brand is. We don't have a sponsorship for the ice cream that's you say if you say what ice cream it is, I'll get a sponsorship for the ice cream.
[00:02:14] Speaker B: I don't know. Yeah, that's how you do it. Get free shit.
[00:02:16] Speaker A: That's right, exactly. They'll send me stuff.
[00:02:18] Speaker B: It worked for me once. I've been chasing it for decades, ever since. I did one cartoon about Anne's pretzels just to do in the newspaper about the pretzels. And Auntie Anne herself sent me an email, said, we've never had anyone ever do a cartoon about us before. Can we send you a present? And I went, oh my goodness. So I went to my editor at the newspaper and I said, hey, is there a rule about this? I mean, it's not bribery. It's already done. And she goes, oh, I forget what the number was, but as long as it's under $500, right, we're okay with it. And then I said, yeah, it's okay. And then they sent me a $5 gift certificate.
[00:03:03] Speaker A: I sent you $500 of the pretzels. That seems like a lot.
[00:03:05] Speaker B: I literally thought they were going to send me, like a food cart full of pretzels for the free advertising.
[00:03:11] Speaker A: Advertising in there. That's awesome.
I've listened to people and watched people on TV, like drinking them and energy drinking, or like, hey, please sponsor me. I'm like, you know, if every episode you say the same thing over and over again. They're getting free sponsorship out of this. They're not going to do anything. They're going to be like, sounds good, thanks for the marketing.
[00:03:28] Speaker B: But it's like they heard one person it worked with one time in 2007, and everyone's been chasing it ever since.
[00:03:34] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
But we're not here to talk about anti Anne's or ice cream or anything like that. I guess we could talk about that.
[00:03:41] Speaker B: Are you sure?
[00:03:42] Speaker A: I don't have a problem with that. Look at that. He's over there dropping spoons and stuff now, too.
[00:03:47] Speaker B: Alex is an ASMR nightmare.
[00:03:53] Speaker A: It's fine. I actually talked Patton Oswald was on here talking their book, and he was in his car driving while the other two, Tim Sealy and Jordan Bloom, were on there, like, sitting at their desk, all this stuff. And that Patton's just like, driving down the street in La on his.
[00:04:08] Speaker B: A. Patton is one of the very few people in this world I do not know how he gets everything he gets done.
Am. I work at a high level of function, and I look at him and I'm kind of stunned.
[00:04:18] Speaker A: Yes, exactly.
[00:04:20] Speaker B: Quite amazing.
He just guessed it on my favorite podcast, not comics.
And he killed. He's unbelievable. Banana.
[00:04:31] Speaker A: I told everybody about who he was. Everybody had a different reason why they knew him. I was like, oh, he writes comics for Dark Horse. And then someone was like, oh, I know stand up comedy. He's like, oh, he's ratatouille. Oh, he was king of Queens. It was like everybody knew him from somewhere else other than.
[00:04:47] Speaker C: I'll tell you that.
[00:04:50] Speaker A: That will be the day, right? He'll probably be on the phone doing a podcast at the same time he'll be doing a podcast on the phone.
[00:04:56] Speaker B: I like to say it out loud when I can say it. Truly, one of the good guys in the business behind the scenes.
[00:05:02] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely.
[00:05:03] Speaker B: Go out of his way to be.
[00:05:05] Speaker A: Good to people when he does 100% and he's talented, that doesn't hurt at all. At all. But he's talented as well. But you've been making the rounds, too. You guys been doing some podcasts and some interviews for this masterpiece. You must be excited to talk about this comic and finally have people reading it and stuff like that, putting all the hard work in it. Has it been fun doing all this media, or is it more taxing? Are you not happy to be here? Are you stressed to be terrified?
[00:05:34] Speaker B: We are very different in this regard. Alex and I don't share the energy for this kind of stuff. Alex likes to sit and do the work.
I love celebrating the completion of the work. I love celebrating how we feel about it and how excited we genuinely feel about it. But also just the I love sharing how it was made, the craft of it.
I like to share that energy because I like when other people share it with me.
So I get real excited about, like, hey, we worked on this for years and it doesn't suck. I can't wait to tell you what we did and why we did it. So that kind of stuff I love endlessly about myself. I have lost the over time, I have lost whatever was driving that needless, that endless desire to talk about myself or to put three names on the title of the book versus a normal amount of names. But I'm working on it. That's what therapy is for.
[00:06:37] Speaker A: Perfect. Exactly right. It's also different right now. You do mostly create your own independent stuff, Brian, so there's a little bit different. I think some people who are outside the comic book industry who might be tuning into this episode might not know that there's still some marketing, there's some weight behind Marvel or DC that helps promote some of these books, plus the characters alone. When you're writing a Spider Man book, it's Spider Man alone sells itself. But when you're doing something like masterpiece and you have to try I hate to say the word convince, but push people to buy your book or read your book, it's a little bit harder. So you have to do some of these things that you might not normally had to have done for a daredevil book or something like that.
[00:07:15] Speaker B: Well, first of all, you have to do it for everything, just because there's so much content in the world, and most of the world is very happy with their whatever it is that's out there that we're obviously competing against. But when we're in this space, anytime, even Marvel, DC, if they're creating something new from scratch, here's something you've never seen before.
You don't know that you want it until we show it to you.
No one filled out a form asking for this. We've decided on our own that we would like you to have this. We, me and Alex, 100% believe anyone who read our daredevil work will completely dig what we're doing. So it's easy on that level to say, hey, based on previous experience with us, I do think you'll dig this, right? But, yeah, I was just listening to Albert Brooks on Mark Marin, and he was talking about the movies that did well, and the movies that don't and every time a movie studio decided not to promote it, it died. He goes, you cannot put out anything in the world without promoting it. It just doesn't exist. It's just, you did it for you, fine. But if you want people to know, you have to tell them.
[00:08:29] Speaker C: There's no other way.
[00:08:31] Speaker B: So I know that sounds pretty simplistic, but it's so hard in this world that we're in now that it's so hard to express to people your true passion when everyone's doing it all at once. So appreciate the time and the on.
[00:08:46] Speaker C: The other hand, with social media lately, especially on certain platforms, it's become like there's so much noise and there's so much nonsense and I never like in in a since the beginning I think I made a rule not to engage in any personal conversations. And then I had to make a second rule not to engage in any political conversations.
And on and on and on. And I only post artwork and only respond to questions about the artwork or a project that we're doing. But nowadays, even if you try to advertise something on social media, it dies the moment you put it out there. It just gets buried with.
[00:09:34] Speaker A: I think it's the world as it is right now. The word content isn't the right word, but I don't know what the right word is. There's so much stuff in books, novels, comic books, TV shows, movies, all that stuff that we all don't have time for all of this either. So there is this sense of, I know someone at the comic book shop, my local comic book shop, galactic comics, who only buys Spider man related. So, like, if it's Spider man or Carnage or Venom, but they're related to Spider man, if there's a connection to that, then he's going to buy that comic and that comic alone. And then there's other people who only buy Marvel because there's just so much content in comics to read that you have to pick and choose where you're going at. So there is. But I also think that those people like you mentioned, the Daredevil people, the people who loved your run on Daredevil, that might be an easier sell for masterpiece than someone who we just know.
[00:10:26] Speaker B: We'Re lucky we have that.
We have creator friends that may not have those tools in their belt to help promote, and they're kind of starting from scratch. So when I see something like Miles Morales or Jessica Jones or these things that are out there in the world with my name attached to it, that I can easily say, oh, hey, if you like that this won't annoy you is a real gift. Particularly, again, as Alex said, our last creator own was Scarlet, a solid ten years ago through Marvel and DC.
And now at Dark Horse, on sale now. The complete collection. Beautiful. But even remembering how it felt to announce scarlet on Twitter and what Twitter felt like and the response there. And on Tumblr versus we're this space now. Whereas equally exciting work, equally exciting announcement and the extra work we have to do just to let people know. And again, our really lovely, generous fans that follow us, and they still can't see the announcement. That's what I'm talking about.
[00:11:34] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:11:35] Speaker B: They are following us. They want to know about it, and still they can't see it. And it's happened to me, too, with some of my favorite creators, where I'm like, oh, that's out.
I follow you on social media. How did I not know? I go to the bookstore and I see the book on the shelf, and I'm like, oh, shit. I didn't know it was out already.
[00:11:51] Speaker A: And you click on their social media profile, and all of them doing is promoting this book, and you still didn't see it. Do you know what I mean? It's like every post for the past two weeks have been, we're promoting this book coming out. And then three weeks later, you're like, I didn't even know realize it hit shelves. I didn't even realize it was out yet.
[00:12:05] Speaker B: And again, I'm not whining. I'm like, oh, okay. That's good to know. Let's get to work. That's how much louder you got to yell to let people know you got something you're really proud of, and you've done something with someone that you're really proud of what they've done.
[00:12:20] Speaker A: And then you guys got cocky enough to name this comic book Masterpiece, but that's just a different story, not us.
[00:12:26] Speaker B: Wait, yeah, that's funny because the title comes from a philosophy I've had for a few years now. It's very hard to name characters and books. Oh, it's so like, all the words have been taken, all the good ones.
Star wars and Spider Man are taken.
Those are the good ones. So I've fought a lot about and Miles came out of this, too. It's not what I would name the character. What would his parents name him, right? And that starts telling a story about this character's world and their family and everything about them. And for Miles, it came from a warm place where the family's together and making choices together. And in Emma's point of view, she never met her parents, right? She doesn't know and didn't even know this was her name, right. So you find out very quickly. Her birth name is Masterpiece and parents she never met. So this is part of immediately the why, right? And that's just one of the ten questions that happens on page three of this story. And so it's about them more than it is about us. But I was wincing about it. I thought of it, and then I thought about, like, Tarantino did that thing at the end of Inglorious Bastards where he kind of has the actor say what he's thinking. I think this is my masterpiece, which is the director talking about himself, and we didn't want to do that's not what this is.
[00:13:58] Speaker A: Yeah, you're right. The naming things is so difficult.
My day job, I work for a brewery. I'm a graphic designer and creative director for a brewery. So I create beer labels and the marketing behind the beer labels. And we're like, when you come up with a new beer, we're like, okay, what's the name of the beer going to be? And then you're trying to name the beer. Then you're like, oh, that's a great name. And then you go online, you find out a brewery down the street has a beer name that came out two weeks ago or so and so, like, some national brand has it or whatever. But then the same thing. We were doing this new blueberry beer that we're trying to name. We were in Maine, and so we're trying to come up with the main style names to it and all that stuff. And we're like, wicked good, because people from Maine say that we're wicked a lot and stuff like that. That but then I'm like by saying wicked good, are we saying already we're telling people that the beer is good? We have to tell them that it's a wicked good beer. And so I think we've decided yes.
[00:14:44] Speaker B: No, but the downside is you're getting there is that I said to Alex, I go, we just have to make sure this doesn't like, it doesn't have to be our masterpiece. But man, it cannot suck. So if you're going to call it anything like that, I have the same problem on Phenomena, by the way, too. It's like you go, phenomena. You're like, you better be gorgeous.
[00:15:04] Speaker A: You better be gorgeous. Well, it's like if someone's company's name is like, DJ's Roast Beef subs like shop, they better have a really good roast beef sandwich. They can't be known for their pizza. They got to have that roast beef sandwich. Or don't name yourself that.
It's a very good comic book for anybody who hasn't read it yet. I obviously, prior to this recording, have been able to read the first issue of Masterpiece. I'm very excited. I've been a fan of you, Brian, for years, and so that's been great. The funny thing is you mentioned about things falling into the ether or not being able to pick up things. I talked to Zach Kaplan last week about a book that he wrote and how I didn't realize he was the right Mindset was a book that came out a couple years ago or two years ago from Vault Comics that I didn't put the pieces together until I was researching the episode with him that I knew. The comic book. And I remember reading the book but couldn't remember the name of the book. Like, I remembered everything about the book except for the name and who wrote it and who illustrated it. And it wasn't until I was researching the episode where I was like, oh, my God, that's the person who wrote this thing. And so it was nice to see that thing, but same thing. I've read Daredevil. I've read, you know, Scarlet, but didn't realize it put the pieces together that you two were the people that did it together. You and Alex, you two here on the podcast where they want us to do it together until later on, where I'm like, oh, my God, it is them again. Reuniting for another thing, how long has this been in the works? Like this masterpiece comic book. Has it been something you've been doing for a while, or is this something that came up more recently?
[00:16:34] Speaker B: Years we've been cooking. We've been cooking since we finished Scarlet. Yeah.
[00:16:40] Speaker C: You've been mentioning that you wanted to do, like, an adventure book, and then you've been playing with that idea for a long, long time.
[00:16:47] Speaker B: Yeah. You know what the weirdest thing happened with Scarlett? We were very inspired to write something we thought would be, like, future forward. Like the kind of like I said at the time, like, Patty Chefsky was our biggest influence. Like, can we write something in comics? The way Network felt when it came out, the movie Network was this movie that won the Academy Award for best picture, but at the time, it was telling the story of what will happen to television. And it was so crazy. Like, every prediction at the time seemed like wild parody. And you watch it today, it all happened. Every single thing happened. And so I'm like, what could we create in that space? Like, what could we say about the world that we think? And if people read it, they go, oh, that's a crazy satire, but maybe it could happen. And that's what Scarlett was.
Instead of being the brilliance that was Network. We were about 13 minutes ahead of the actual news, which is in itself a trick. But again, we didn't think the city would be burning around us while we were writing a story about this city burning. So I did say to Alex when we were done with Scarlet, I go, the next one will be fun. It'll be just fun.
[00:18:04] Speaker C: And I remember years later, Brian would send me emails with links to Portland's newspapers, which had almost the exact shots that we drew in Scarlett years before. Like, people ratting on the street, attacking city hall, cars burning, stuff. Like, mean, it's kind of weird to.
[00:18:33] Speaker B: Think about it, but it was super strange. He can't alex's visual choices and reality met, and it's weird as hell. But I also think, in my opinion, it's one of the biggest compliments the world ever gave Alex. Like, yeah, your research was right on the money.
There you go. That's what yeah. What you thought it looks like is exactly what it looks like.
[00:19:02] Speaker C: Yeah. Luckily, nobody blew up city hall with the RPG from the top of a van. Because we did that.
[00:19:09] Speaker B: I know, but it was burning from the inside and it was the exact same shot. And I was like, Goddamn. It wasn't a bazooka, but it's on fire.
[00:19:16] Speaker C: Yeah, I know. And I remember I think you snuck in and you took pictures of the city hall, right? And you sent me pictures from the interior.
[00:19:26] Speaker B: I couldn't not but anyway, after the journey of Scarlet, which is one of my favorite creative journeys of my own entire life, alex and I were coming off of a bunch of projects at Marvel that defined us and meant the world to us. And I'm like, can we apply that energy to create our own and get something out of it that neither one has ever had before? And we did. We were able to accomplish that. I think it's among Alex's best work, particularly the third volume, the third chapter in it. It's among the best work Alex has ever done. So when approaching this, having more fun, but at the same time trying to challenge us to be the best version of ourselves, which is what the gift that we've always had for each other is, that for some reason, when we're together, it is one of the best versions of ourselves. So I just wanted to make sure that this was the best version of that. And at the same time, the real is we have decades of worked under our belt together. And I didn't want to do anything we've done before. I wanted to completely challenge us narratively, thematically, and Alex was up for the challenge, and that was amazing. So that was a lot. What went into the birth of this.
[00:20:46] Speaker C: Book, which I'm going to add to this, is because you don't tell me everything in the book and how it's going to work out. And I don't ask.
I'm at issue four right now, and I'm super curious to see what's going to happen. Like, I really want to know.
[00:21:04] Speaker B: Well, I did text you. That the big yeah, because we were.
[00:21:09] Speaker C: Talking about characters that are going to come up very soon in issue five. But how this whole thing is going to unfold, I don't know exactly. So I really want to see the fine details in it and how it's going to because in books like that, you have to tight all the loose ends at the end because people expect to do so. They'd be like, but wait a minute, what happened to so and so? And why did this work out this way? You got to know in the master plan of the masterpiece, you have to have the answers. And I don't I don't know what Brian's going to do.
[00:21:42] Speaker B: Well, that's a training thing. I said, hey, do you want all the scripts now? We were like, no, no.
[00:21:47] Speaker C: But it's the same thing with Daredevil.
[00:21:49] Speaker B: I know.
[00:21:50] Speaker C: I'm just giving you I want to know if there's a major character or something that's going to happen in the future that I need to pay attention to right now, but the little details and how this whole thing is going to unfold. I'm on board. I want to see it.
[00:22:11] Speaker B: I'll tell you a surprise. And Alex doesn't know about this one, but Alex, I'm very excited about this. I'm excited to see his have you you've met one of them in the first issue? The Paragon is an older character, like a pulp hero style character from the 90s who's returned, right? And by issue five, we meet a lot of people from the world have popped up, including the Paragon and an ex partner. And they're very violent relationship between these two.
Originally, I had written a very Alex Malib kind of fight scene between the two of them. And then after talking to Alex about it, I realized, oh, no. Then the more clever thing for Alex is these are two older people who know how to fight. So instead of doing the fight scene, they're telling each other the fight scene.
I don't have to hit you ten times.
I'd hit you in the neck, I'd hit you in the stomach, I'd hit you in the balls. And then you'd counter with this. And then they know that they're chess players. They know the game before they sit down, so they don't have to hit each other. And she says, I've got like six amazing hits in me, so I save them. So they talk through the fight, and then she knocks them out.
[00:23:30] Speaker C: Wonderful.
[00:23:32] Speaker B: I'm so happy.
[00:23:33] Speaker C: You're wonderful.
[00:23:34] Speaker B: Finally, collaboration.
[00:23:36] Speaker C: We're talking about the fight scenes, and I'm struggling with the choreography of the scene in issue four, and it's taking me forever because it needs to flow perfectly. I think the way it goes, it's like we have a character that goes like a blitz Greek through its enemies, and it has know take care of them all. And then I've been working on this back and forth a lot, and I was talking to Brian about it, and he goes, oh, wait until you see what's going to happen in issue five. They're going to have a huge fight. And I'm like, you know what? Can we just have two people sitting by the window counting that's? That's what I want to draw.
[00:24:15] Speaker A: That's a Kevin Smith comic book, right? Not Kevin Smith's dialogue there. It's more dialogue than it is actually action happening. But your story about the whole fighting sequence, talking about the talking through it reminds me there's an episode of The Office where Jim is playing chess with Creed and he goes to play a move and Creed goes, you don't want to do that because I'm going to do this. But you don't want to do that because I'm going to do this. And then Jim's like, why are we playing?
[00:24:37] Speaker B: What are we doing that's based on older chess stuff?
What's that chess movie with Searching for Bobby fisher.
[00:24:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:47] Speaker B: Orange Fishburn's character is like that. Like, you want to do that. You don't want to do that.
[00:24:51] Speaker A: I'm going to do this if you do that, I'm going to do this. If you do this, I'm going to do that. That's awesome.
[00:24:55] Speaker B: All right. But this is like the I love this little anecdote because perfect example of listening to your collaborators and getting to a place where you think of a better idea than anyone could do a fight scene. And now we got a real reason to not do it. That's character related, and it makes my co partner happy. And that's awesome.
[00:25:17] Speaker C: Very happy.
[00:25:18] Speaker B: Look, he's life.
[00:25:19] Speaker A: There you go. Finally happy. He had all that ice cream. Now he's cold. He's putting his sweatshirt on.
Cold. Now.
Speaking of artwork, Alex, did you draw the web comic that's in this comic as well?
[00:25:35] Speaker C: Brian I'll let you I drew it.
[00:25:38] Speaker A: That's what I thought. I was going to guess that, but I was like, this is amazing. I literally put my notes. I was like, I don't know why.
[00:25:44] Speaker B: It took me the entire time it took him to draw that entire issue. It took me to draw that page.
[00:25:49] Speaker C: Yeah, but I was supposed to do it, and it had to be your baby. That one.
[00:25:56] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:56] Speaker B: Well, I was actually going to have Olivia do it, and then I did it. Well, I just wanted to be closer to that voice. You know what I mean? Yeah. And then I drew it. And then she looked at it and went, no, that looks legit to me.
[00:26:16] Speaker A: You can just tell people I did it. Just tell people that I was the one that did it. Don't worry. No one's going to believe it anyway.
That's pretty funny how you say that, because a friend of mine, Joseph Schmalke, who works for or writes comics for CEX right now, his daughter has a web comics that she does also online. So she could have done a comic book like this in his book if he had the same style on that. But I was like, it's so perfect. It's so different. And I think that adds to it, too. Is it making Brian you drawing that makes it different enough than Alex's work so you know that it wasn't the same artist doing the same thing.
[00:26:52] Speaker B: Just it's a nice reminder in the middle of book about how good Alex is. If you're getting used to how good Alex is, just here's a reminder. It could look like this. Let's get back to Alex.
[00:27:02] Speaker C: I think you did a wonderful job, but please but thank you.
[00:27:06] Speaker B: There's a lot of ink on the floor. It was part of a process and involved that at one time I was going to like right now on my substac, I have a Fortune and Glory sequel going on that the amazing Bill Walco drew for me. But I was going to draw that myself. That. Was always like, that's a book about me and my family. I was going to draw it myself. And then after I drew this page, I went, oh, I can't.
It's either raise your children or draw this book. There's not going to be. So I took the opportunity, I'll draw out something down the line. But right now my kids are all like preteen and I need to be present.
[00:27:44] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
I think I need the Masterpiece variant cover. That's a variant cover drawn like the web comic.
[00:27:52] Speaker B: Yeah, I was going to do that. And then, you know what, honestly, we ended up with some variant covers on this thing that are amazing.
We have unbelievable variants. I was going to do one or two and then I just got the hell out of the way.
We'd even go to some of our best friends that are brilliant artists to do variants because the people that said yes to us right away were know we have a very rare Ryan Sook non DC cover coming. That's stunning. Like, I can't wait to show it.
[00:28:21] Speaker A: To and a lot of them are up like the first, what, three, four issues are within previews, so you can see a lot.
[00:28:28] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, that's right.
[00:28:31] Speaker A: Yeah. Those are pretty cool on there as well.
Definitely. Well done. I am a big fan of the interior artist being the same artist as the COVID a, because I feel like that's what you want to expect from the interior of the book. So that's a good thing on that as well, having Alex do those.
[00:28:47] Speaker B: I also grew up buying a lot of Michael Golden covers only to open up the book to disappointment. So I know exactly what you're talking about.
[00:28:53] Speaker A: See, and the funny thing is, I'm a humongous and so but I usually buy a cover and the Scotty cover, so it's not like I don't expect yeah, because I've got this one over here. It looks like someone's a little famous dude. On that one over there, I got.
[00:29:08] Speaker B: A Scotty Young over there.
[00:29:09] Speaker A: There you go.
[00:29:11] Speaker B: A prize possession.
Wow.
[00:29:16] Speaker A: Artwork at Gertrude. I got the nightcrawler. My son's name is Nova, so I had to get a Nova on there.
[00:29:22] Speaker B: It's a good nova, too.
[00:29:24] Speaker A: Run the jewels rap group. The extremely rare variant of Scotty Young. It's hard to get, which I don't have.
[00:29:31] Speaker B: Also, it's one of one on your arm.
[00:29:35] Speaker A: Exactly. It was actually my second tattoo, too, other than the Stan Lee was the first one.
It's hard to wow Stan Lee with the Spider Man. I always forget the artist, too, which always pisses me off. But it was a toy they exclusively had at San Diego Comic Con. And the box had this artwork on it and I had found it and I found it at one point because it's because I don't think the person got credit on the box. Do you know what I mean? I think the box was made and then the art was with it. And so I had to find if someone posting it, being like, this is my artwork. And so I was hard to find. I found the picture on the internet, no problem. But, yeah, other than that, it's mostly Scotty Young on my arm. I got a Ben Bish up here who draws for the turtles. I got a turtle, obviously done by him. But, yeah, Scotty's a good artist, in my opinion, but I wouldn't like Scotty doing the COVID a for Masterpiece, if that makes any sense. A masterpiece cover with Scotty doing a B or a C or a D cover. That makes sense to me. But I want to see the same style of COVID on the front that I do in the interiors of the book.
[00:30:37] Speaker B: Also, it just happens that Alex is one of the best cover artists on the planet.
Alex is who you would call to do a variant of this book.
[00:30:45] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:30:47] Speaker B: That's the thing.
Yeah. Also, just to let you know, because you've got them all over your skin, scotty's a really good guy.
[00:30:53] Speaker A: Yes, he was on episode 101 timing. I was trying to get him for episode 100 of this podcast, but timing didn't work out well, so he ended up being 101 episode, which was a fun episode for me. It was hard for me not to be like, I love your artwork so much, and just not talk about comics and not just be like, you're the best. Why can't you keep doing this?
[00:31:13] Speaker B: It's also like, for my students. Go ahead, Alex.
[00:31:16] Speaker A: I'm sorry. 141.
[00:31:17] Speaker C: Which episode is this?
[00:31:18] Speaker A: 1141. 141.
So 40 episodes.
[00:31:23] Speaker B: You have ten minutes to convince him you're better than Scotty. Can you do it?
[00:31:28] Speaker C: Me?
[00:31:28] Speaker B: Make him love you more than I? Well, listen, well, it's so funny because you know what? That thing you said about the Stanley Art Box not having credit, I often see Alex Malive art uncredited on, like, a Hot Wheels car for Daredevil or something. Alex's artwork pops up in weird places.
[00:31:51] Speaker C: And sometimes on people's skins as well.
[00:31:54] Speaker A: Yeah, I asked that question to Scott. I was like, what's it like? Because my tattoo artist, his name is Jay Cochrane. He owns the local convention in Bangor, Maine, as well, at the comic book convention. And so my local comic book shop owner also likes to get Scotty Young tattoos done. So he's basically known for being a Scotty Young tattoo artist. He's done multiple tattoos. And I asked Scotty, he's like, yeah, when I first saw the one, I was like, why would you want my artwork on you permanently? That's his first thought that went through. And then he goes after he saw a bunch of them, he goes, okay, I understand this. And as he grew as an artist, he's like, I understand why someone would do this, but at the very beginning, he's like, that seems stupid. That my artwork's not good enough to be permanently on your skin?
[00:32:33] Speaker B: I was like, no, I'm a big Scotty fan, so I disagree with that. But I will say that the first time it happened to us in our circle, someone got some Mike Oming stuff from Powers tattooed on their body, and they showed it. And then Mike immediately went, oh, no. What if I'm an asshole?
What if I try not to be a monster?
[00:32:55] Speaker A: That is a thought process that's gone through my head on multiple times. I'm like, oh, no, this is not good if this happened.
[00:33:02] Speaker B: But, yeah, thankfully, that was a long time ago, and Mike has proven himself not to be the monster that would make you be bummed out about your thing. But quite a few people have turned out to be monsters.
[00:33:14] Speaker C: There's still time for all of us.
[00:33:16] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. But that's the never too late alex Scottie Young's artwork, too, is easy to tattoo. I think, too, that's difference between some people's artwork. I mean, obviously very we're hard to get masterpiece number one's cover a tattooed on you without spending a bunch of money having a specific style of someone's tattoo.
[00:33:33] Speaker B: I think you can Google right now, alex Malib daredevil tattoo and see elaborate tattoos that actually imitate Alex's gradation and brush style. It's amazing.
[00:33:49] Speaker A: It is definitely one of the because I've had thoughts one of my favorite artists.
[00:33:54] Speaker B: I have one right on my ass. You want to see?
[00:33:55] Speaker A: Yeah, we see it. Yeah, exactly. I was at my local comic book shop, has a book club every month, and last night we had a book club, and there's a woman that's in our book club, and she's like, I've got this tattoo, but it's on my upper thigh, so here's a picture of it from her phone. Because she's like, I'm not taking pants. I don't remember. I was paying attention to some other conversations. She was talking to someone.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I was like, I don't know. But it was kind of funny. I'm like, dad, please don't take your pants off. It would not be good. She's the only female in our entire group. They would be very awkward. But yeah.
Michael Del Mundo is one of my favorite comic artists, too. And a lot of that stuff is, like it's masterful pieces of artwork, but it doesn't translate easily a lot of times into tattoos. It has to be on some sort of eleven x 17 or some sort of bigger print, in my opinion, or a comic book cover to get the full thing. And I do think that you can do it. There needs a specific piece of artwork, in my opinion, to tattoo well or spend hours and hours and hours on the tattoo table, which I don't want to do.
[00:34:52] Speaker B: It's against my religion not to tell you that I have a book I done with Michael Gatos called Pearl about a tattoo artist assassin that we did an insane amount of research on I think you might dig. So there you go.
[00:35:06] Speaker A: Let's take a look at that beautiful book.
[00:35:07] Speaker B: Absolutely beautiful. Including some beautiful Alex covers.
[00:35:10] Speaker C: Mike and I went on a hike about a week ago upstate.
[00:35:14] Speaker B: Oh, yeah? How'd it go?
[00:35:17] Speaker C: We had a long walk. I made him walk more than he wanted.
[00:35:22] Speaker A: How'd it go? We walked that's exactly.
[00:35:25] Speaker C: And we talked for maybe 4 hours. It was a pretty nice it was.
[00:35:29] Speaker A: A very nice that's awesome.
[00:35:32] Speaker C: Every once in a while, I go up north to see him.
[00:35:35] Speaker B: Yeah. Gators and I went to college together. I know.
[00:35:38] Speaker A: Really?
[00:35:38] Speaker B: We're not friends.
[00:35:39] Speaker A: He told me only a few years ago. You went to college. Right? Right, Brian. Only a couple of years ago. Because I was going to say something earlier.
[00:35:49] Speaker B: I mean, you've been bedrock university.
[00:35:51] Speaker A: Yes, exactly. You've been making comics for years now. And I don't want to make it seem like you're old. Obviously, you're not old in the grand scheme of life right now, you're not old.
You've done big two stuff, you've done independent stuff, creator own stuff. Is this where you feel home now is making things like masterpiece with Alex? Or do you still miss the itch of being in the trenches at Marvel or DC? Is this where you'd like to be right now, though?
[00:36:19] Speaker B: Well, it's a weird situation I find myself in, and I love writing for Marvel. I have loved every second of it. And I left because you have to leave eventually. It's like it's how long can you hold on and then get out before they're sick of? And even on that frame, I was able to pull a Keenan Thompson and stay longer than most, and I was very grateful. And then I was actually going to leave and do this exactly what I'm doing right now at Dark Horse and the Abrams and what's going on at Amazon. And that was our plan. And then DC generously came and changed that idea for me in a way that I couldn't say no to, and I'm very grateful for that. But the idea was to eventually garner enough for ourselves in the mainstream space where we could live what I'm calling our best Magnola life at Dark Horse and create from our hearts as deep as we can get and really just stay there and really just create as much new stuff as possible.
And as the years went on at Marvel, and the successes were a lot larger than I could even hope for, the thing that was always getting to me was I didn't feel I was creating enough new stuff.
I was always proudest of the new stuff, like Jessica and Miles would be much, even though I was proud of all of it. There's something about creating something brand new from scratch that I felt like I could do more of. And I literally made a list of things I would like to do now that I'm this age. And it was make new stuff with your friends was the top one. So that was the goal. And then where I kind of get to have my cake and eat it too know? Marvel just put out, like, in the last six months, like eight collections of our material, including our Iron Man run, is in a beautiful new collection. So we have material on the shelf right now. Finding new readers all the time at both Marvel and on the Trade just came out. I have a lot of collections on the market that are brand new, so I don't feel the need to make any more of those because people are still eating that meal, so I don't need to keep making more food. And I may have been the last person to figure that out. That may have been true ten years ago, and I just figured it out recently.
But there's something weird. I'm in love with everything at Marvel and I'm in love with everything at DC. And that hasn't changed, but I love this more.
That mountain is climbed, and as I get further and further away from it, I can see I climbed it clearer. Like, even as I left Marvel, it was like I was like I was still writing the Kitty Pride movie. I was still working on the Spiderverse movies. And now, still, even if I get an itch, phil Ward calls and goes, hey, can you take a look at this scene? Or do you want to read? Like, I'm still working on Spider Man so that it gets scratched. And it's for this amazing, beautiful movies series that is beyond anything I could have ever even hoped for that I get to put my name on, right?
So I have all of this going on while we're trying to create brand new stuff from I literally I told Alex this, he's rolling his eyes, but I really had to sit down and say to myself, if I was a fan of me, what would delight me? And doing this instead of more Spider Man at the moment is, I think, a much more challenging space, much more exciting space.
And I think it's absolutely me using everything gift that's been given to me in the best way possible. Like, look at this. Look at everything's been given to you. Now what are you going to do with it? Well, let's make something new and something that challenges me and my friends to be better than we were last year after years of contemplation, that's the result of where it came to. But I know I'm very unique in this space. I got to leave Marvel with good vibes.
I'm not mad at anybody.
It's good.
So I do know it's a blessing, and I just want people to hear this, that I'm very aware of the privilege and the only thing I do with it is to share what I've learned, help people get where they're going on my Substac and in class, and then make more cool stuff with my friends.
[00:41:17] Speaker C: When we left Marvel, we left on a high note, I think. And I'm telling you this because I went through some hard drives just recently, because I had to erase some things and back up some other things. And I came across the Ironman Book that we did at Marvel and did these scenes where Doom was going through this snowy forest, and I'm looking at this stuff, and I go, Shit.
Next to it there's a Daredevil folder, and I'm going through the Daredevil covers, and I go, but this is I mean, artistically, I think, for me, we got to learn a lot through going through all these years in Marvel. And at the end of it, I think we were producing at least, I think I was doing my best work at Marvel. And then we took that and moved it to DC. And we started working on Leviathan, which had the same vibe that we had doing The Invincible Iron Man. And because I was coloring already at Marvel, and I took the coloring, and we did Leviathan and DC. And that came out really fucking nice.
[00:42:27] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:42:30] Speaker B: And Alex, are you going through these files? Because look what I'm doing here because of your upcoming Marvel art book.
[00:42:36] Speaker C: I was going through the files exactly, and I'll tell you why. Because it turns out that there are certain percentage of art that I've created with Marvel characters that if it's not published, I could not put in the book.
It turns out that they want certain percentage of the work in the book to have been published. So had I said, I want to have 206 pages of commissions watercolors, they would have said, no, you have to have that many. That many unpublished.
[00:43:12] Speaker B: Did they say what the breakdown is?
[00:43:13] Speaker C: I'm sorry?
[00:43:14] Speaker B: Did they say what the breakdown is? Like how yeah, they did. Half and half.
[00:43:20] Speaker C: Would have been good had it been half and half.
[00:43:22] Speaker A: No.
[00:43:27] Speaker B: Why?
[00:43:27] Speaker C: Because I think that in the second part of my career, I think I've produced better work, and some of these commissions and the watercolors and the covers that I've done over the last ten years are better than the ones I've done in the beginning.
So I wished I could have included more of these. But then again, a lot of the Daredevil stuff is so iconic that it had to find canvas as well. So it was a fine balance. And, yes, I was looking through the hard drives, digging stuff out from early years, sending to Marvel for approval, and I came across the Doom pages.
Those were good. Those were good.
[00:44:09] Speaker B: They're good.
[00:44:12] Speaker A: So I say lucky, but we're so lucky as comic book fans, too, that there's a place like Dark Horse where you could bring your talents to South Beach, like the LeBron James no, you bring your talents over there and have a home like Dark Horse to do this with. And not that there isn't only the big two. There isn't. Only Marvel and DC. There's other publishers out there that you can have some fun with, play in the sandbox and do what you want and still have fun. And Dark Horse is a great home for you right now, honestly.
[00:44:40] Speaker B: Oh, it so dark Horse debuted around the same time I broke into comics, like me and David Mack and Mike Oming. We were all at a place called Caliber Comics, and we were very blessed to be published. A very small publisher, Ed Brubaker, was there, like a lot of people who we were still friends with.
We were a graduating class who were really proud of.
So we were there, and then that fell apart because small press sometimes falls apart. And then we ended up safe at Image when Image opened up their gates. And so I've always had a safe harbor.
And then what happened at Image was Marvel opened.
We'll publish your creator own stuff. So they created icon for us, and that was amazing. So we've always had a safe home, which I'm really grateful for because we've watched some of our friends and peers struggle with dishonest publishers and all that. But even through all this amazing space, I was such a Dark Horse fan.
I pined to be a dark Horse. These are the books I buy. These are the books I love. And I buy books from everywhere. But Dark Horse's collections are and I would I joked before, but you would look at Mike Minola's career as something to aspire to.
That is a purely beautiful career.
And boy, oh, boy, wouldn't it be great, right?
And so if you're doing like a fantasy camp of what you thought your career would be, that's a good place to go. It just so happens I moved to Portland and I became friends with a lot of people at Dark Horse, including Mike Richardson, who we would often get on a plane from La. And Mike Richardson's, like, right next to me on the plane, we would often go, oh, hey, we're just coming home from a meeting at the same time and have wonderful conversations about the history of comics and blah, blah, blah. And he made it very clear to me for many years, the minute you're ready, Dark Horse is your home. And I was so grateful for that. I never took it for granted. And also, one of my closest friends in comics is Diana Schutz, who was executive veteran at Dark Horse. She retires. And now I'm here at Dark Horse.
And we were going to call Dark Horse when the choice to leave Marvel was like, well, I should call Mike Richardson and let him know that this might be an opportunity. And then Dan happened before that could even happen. So when it was time and I could call Mike and I say, hey, were you serious? And he was absolutely. Kept every promise he made. And it's been a very safe, happy, wonderful home for us. And it does feel even Powers being reprinted there. Yeah, it looks like a dark horse, but Powers is a dark horse idea.
These belong at Dark Horse. Like Scarlett, too. You looked at it printed with a Dark Horse logo on it. Just looked right.
[00:47:36] Speaker A: It looks right. Yeah, absolutely. And Daniel Chaubin is one of the best editors in the business right now over there, too. So you have that.
[00:47:42] Speaker B: Oh, my God. So Daniel and like, he was editing David Mack's work and Mike Oming's work. So I had through his behavior with my friends and hearing what a great editor he was. And again, another place where I've been. Me and Alex have been very spoiled with excellent editors behind us everywhere we've gone. So once you realize how spoiled you are, you go, oh, man, it's not going to happen again, is it? And then, lo and behold, Daniel Shabon, one of the great editors working in comics right now. Just one of the absolute best. And he has our back and he's amazing.
[00:48:18] Speaker C: Would you disagree if I told you that I think that some of the editors must have thought the same way about us, spoiled with us because we never created any problems.
[00:48:28] Speaker B: Yeah, we do pride ourselves. It is one of my mandates is if you see a lot of chaos going on, let's not be chaos.
Let's deliver.
[00:48:38] Speaker A: We deliver.
[00:48:40] Speaker B: Last year at DC, there was complete chaos. Editorially. It was all public. Everyone was fired. There was temp agencies working in editorial rooms and we were just, you know, just let's just hand in our work and be professional. Just be known for so. I agree with that, Alex. But that's not our story to tell. That's someone else's do. We've had Tom Breword and Joe Casada and we've just had this parade of the best editors in the history of modern comics backing us up and telling us when we're fucking.
So to have Daniel Shabon, who not only that, but his taste is immaculate. And so to be part of the book line he's publishing is quite wonderful. Here's a side note.
Also. His brother Michael and his sister Ayelet are separate from my relationship with Daniel. They are the showrunners of the Jinx adaptation I'm doing right now at.
[00:49:43] Speaker A: Small World.
[00:49:45] Speaker B: Completely unrelated. Amazon calls and goes, hey, do you know Michael Shabon? I'm like yes. And they're like, what do you think of like and it all worked out. And so my life is filled with Shabons. I have.
[00:49:59] Speaker A: Mean, it's not a bad thing, right? It's a good thing.
[00:50:00] Speaker B: Oh, no, it's a good thing. And I'm a better writer for it.
[00:50:04] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:50:05] Speaker B: One of my secret weapons is I'm constantly surrounding myself with people far more talented than myself.
Not to hide behind them, but to go, well, you can't fuck up. If you're writing for Alex, it better don't fuck is he one of the great artists in modern comics. Don't waste his time.
[00:50:26] Speaker C: I wouldn't know because I don't read your scripts anymore.
[00:50:30] Speaker B: That's good, too.
[00:50:31] Speaker A: Yeah, that's amazing. You took working with great people who would be ashamed, not to mention Ian and Josh, your colorist and letterer on this book as well. Those guys are amazing, too.
[00:50:43] Speaker B: So Josh I met at DC, and immediately, obviously, I take every aspect of comics making very seriously. But Josh there's every once in a while you meet someone and they immediately are on the same page as you. You're like, oh, you see the page the same way I do and has the same kind of invention in his head. And so Josh has been lettering all Jinx World books since I met him at DC, including Phenomena for Abrams and all of our Dark Horse books. He's wonderful. Absolutely.
So Alex has worked with only the best colorists in comics, matt Hollingsworth, Dave Stewart, and Alex. These are the greatest colorists in the world. So the bar is very high. And at the same time, we were like, what a great opportunity to try something else in the arsenal.
What a grand opportunity to find a new cinematographer for our storytelling. Like what's out there? And at the same time they were coming back to Patton, they sent me an advance of minder threats. And I was like, I like this palette, God damn it's, unlike other palettes. And I'm like, at the same time I'm reading it, alex texted me an early image of Masterpiece, and I literally saw if Ian I wonder if Alex will see it too. And he did. And from the third page, OOH, we got like and that's not normally how you feel on the third page. You have to wait a while. And it happened right away.
[00:52:26] Speaker C: And I think also it gets better with every issue because I think he feels more comfortable doing this and it just comes out more naturally. I think he doesn't second guess as much as he probably did in the beginning, but we all second guess everything we do. Anyways.
[00:52:44] Speaker B: Go ahead. Yeah.
[00:52:45] Speaker C: And I was going to say the fourth book, I think, is the first time I colored something in it because I wanted to see what's going to look like, like the palette. Because I have a specific thing to ask for this book. And when it gets to it, I'll write the email about how each scene will be colored with references, of course, to some good cinematographers that I admire. So yeah, well, it takes four issues for me to say something, which goes to tell you that I'm pretty happy with.
[00:53:24] Speaker B: I actually wrote him an email. I don't know if I told you this, Alex. I wrote him an email last week because it occurred to me I haven't actually spoken to him in a while because I haven't needed to. I've got four kids and eight full time jobs. Like, if I don't need to talk to you, I don't have time.
Right.
I wrote him and go, oh, hey, by the way, I don't think I have on my end a nicer compliment than, I haven't needed to talk to you. Everything just made me go, wow.
I don't go wow all the time. I'm really wowed. So that's my compliment to Ian.
You're good.
[00:53:58] Speaker A: You're nailing it. Yeah. You're nailing it. It was awesome. Well, everything flows exactly perfectly in this first issue, in my opinion. The writing, obviously, the artwork, the coloring, the lettering. It's one of those things that nothing looks jarring. They look smooth. I wrote in my notes here when I was doing something. It's a creative team of amazing people, which is awesome. So I'm really excited for other people to continue reading it.
[00:54:19] Speaker B: Thank you.
For us, it's a huge mess behind the scenes to make it look like it's not a mess.
[00:54:27] Speaker C: It still takes a while to get to the point where it really is not a mess.
In any restaurant in the kitchen, there is a mess before.
[00:54:38] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. I have a restaurant at my brewery, and if you walk in there, it's a mess in there. But the final plate looks amazing. That's all that matters. Yes.
[00:54:45] Speaker C: You don't need to know what's going.
[00:54:46] Speaker B: On behind the we were talking at dinner, which I'm sad. Alex used to live in Portland, so he would be part of our Thanksgivings and stuff. He wasn't here this year, but we were having a great conversation. Ivan was at our Thanksgiving this week, and we were talking about how everyone in comics loves The Bear so much because that's what comics feels like. And I know a lot of people in other industries feel like the Bear feels like their world, but, boy, that feels like comics. But watch it, Alex. You haven't seen it yet. It's an amazing not sitcom about restaurant.
[00:55:27] Speaker C: Oh, you're not talking about The Bear, the movie?
[00:55:30] Speaker A: No, Bear, the TV show.
[00:55:31] Speaker B: TV show. It's on FX. Watch it tonight.
It's everything you love, and it's about craft. It's about passionate lunatics making something that matters everything to them.
[00:55:43] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay.
It's an insanely well made show.
[00:55:47] Speaker B: And once you find out no one gets murdered in the pilot, it's the funniest thing you've ever seen. Because it's the most stressful thing you've ever seen.
[00:55:53] Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah. Especially for those people who work in kitchens. They're like, oh, my God, I know.
[00:55:57] Speaker B: I've seen some of those instagram things. They show people who work in a restaurant a scene from The Bear, and they trigger the fuck out.
[00:56:05] Speaker A: Yes. Like oh, my God. No, please don't. But I mean, the comic book world is crazy, but the final product is what matters, and a lot of people seeing that, and you. Two have worked so tirelessly hard to make some unbelievably wonderful comic books that people absolutely love. And I mentioned to some people at my LCS about that you two originally was just Brian, and then obviously, Alex, you were able to make it. But Alex was part of that Daredevil run that a lot of people just started talking about, and they loved that, amazingly. But the biggest thing to me is I've interviewed now 141 episodes of this podcast. A lot of times I talk to people about how they got into comics, how they broke in, what made them read comics, and so on and so forth. And you would not believe, Brian, the number of people who say they either came into comics or came back into comics with New Avengers, Secret Invasion, House of M, and those books. So the impact that and it's me too. I was out of comics, and I came back in for those things as well. So we owe our comic book love to you a lot, too. So I really appreciate the hard work that you've done for the comic book industry over the years as well.
[00:57:10] Speaker B: I deeply appreciate that. If only I was wired to take it all in. But I will say what I often have to do faced with that compliment, is remind what I feel like with other creators who've done that for me, like Walt Simonson or something. And I have to like, oh, that okay. Allow this to happen.
Also, it feels like we broke into comics, like, three and a half months ago. It doesn't feel like this journey. Like, me and Alex are looking at year 25 together.
This is a big anniversary for us. That's stunning. But I don't know about you, Alex. I don't feel like it at all.
[00:57:48] Speaker C: Like, not even listen, I went to storage the other day. I'm going through hard drives, digital storage, and I'm going through so I went to storage yesterday because I had to move some shit. And then I went through a box, and I'm looking at old artwork. I want to show you what I found.
[00:58:08] Speaker A: Yeah, it was what was that? 2008 ish nine.
House of M. This is going to.
[00:58:18] Speaker C: Be hard to see.
[00:58:19] Speaker B: I think House of M is like 2005. Six, believe it or not.
[00:58:21] Speaker A: Six. That's what it was. Yeah.
[00:58:23] Speaker B: Oh, boy.
[00:58:24] Speaker C: This is when we killed the kingpin.
[00:58:27] Speaker B: Wow. I remember seeing that. And again, to me, I know that was 20 years ago. Don't feel it.
[00:58:33] Speaker C: This is 1998, I think.
[00:58:37] Speaker B: 25 years, buddy. 25 years. Goddamn.
Goddamn. No, because we're those guys now. Like, you can't take it back now. We're those guys.
[00:58:50] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
I also am surprised that he still has it just available.
[00:58:56] Speaker C: Then I find this cover, which is issue 48.
[00:59:02] Speaker B: Put it on ebay.
[00:59:03] Speaker A: Yeah, we need a retirement, right?
[00:59:07] Speaker C: Boxes. And all of a sudden I see a cover. I completely forgot. What did this this is how long.
[00:59:11] Speaker B: It'S that should go in the art book. That's a good one for the art book because it was printed.
[00:59:16] Speaker A: Right. I want the art book, though, that has the original. I want that actual copy of that.
[00:59:20] Speaker B: Is that like a different version than the one that was printed?
[00:59:23] Speaker C: No, that's the actual art piece.
[00:59:26] Speaker B: Wow. All right. Wow. That's amazing.
[00:59:28] Speaker A: Well.
[00:59:31] Speaker C: In the printed cover, actually, you see, the logo is on top, so you don't really so it's cropped. But this is as big as it is. It's 13 x 20.
[00:59:42] Speaker A: How did I forget about beautiful?
[00:59:47] Speaker B: Listen, you just met a nostalgic Alex. I've never seen that before.
[00:59:52] Speaker A: It's the ice cream. He's eating the ice cream. It's making him go static. It's because he's peed next to a bunch of famous people. It's all this stuff.
It's coming.
[01:00:04] Speaker B: When?
[01:00:05] Speaker C: When you guilted me into doing this tonight because I was trying to get out of it.
[01:00:09] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:00:13] Speaker C: Because I found out about that. It's today at 08:00 and I had dinner plans and I want to tell you, Brian, that I had dinner plans with the.
[01:00:28] Speaker B: Okay.
[01:00:29] Speaker C: And not only we were going to have oysters and I was going to shoot some reference pictures for one of the talking scenes when he comes back from the fight. Anyway, so I did have a dinner.
[01:00:45] Speaker B: Plan with well, actually, this probably worked out better because I'm literally about to hand you a script tonight or tomorrow. That's a lot of him. So it's all very that's great because.
[01:00:57] Speaker C: I can lay that out and take reference pictures for issue five. That's great.
[01:01:03] Speaker B: Okay.
You made him feel bad about trying to blow off the podcast.
[01:01:07] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
[01:01:09] Speaker B: Just telling you.
[01:01:11] Speaker C: It didn't take much, did it?
[01:01:15] Speaker B: Podcast? And he hopped right on.
[01:01:18] Speaker A: It was so funny, too, because it's like the second time that I've had a third time I've had this happen, I have someone scheduled to come on and then some PR person or someone email was like, hey, do you mind if so and so comes on with you? I think one of them was with Jordan Bloom and Patton Oswald and it was like, oh, you want Tim Seeley to him? Like, who's going to say no to like, that's so stupid. I think Ryan Brown was like, hey, Charles Soul can come on this. Like, this is stupid. So when he's like, oh, Alex wants to come on, too, I'm like, I'm not going to say no to that. Who would say no to that?
Yeah, no, please don't have Alex, come on.
[01:01:52] Speaker B: Charles wrote a book called The Endless Vessel. A novel? That's really good. Like, really, really good.
[01:01:59] Speaker A: I got it over there. I have the Kickstarter exclusive.
[01:02:03] Speaker B: So when Charles came town, he asked me to host him at Powell's, and we did the Powell thing. Remember the Powell thing? Where you like, of course, yes. Author.
[01:02:12] Speaker A: So it's a Kickstarter exclusive, one but.
[01:02:14] Speaker B: Yeah, had an amazing conversation.
[01:02:16] Speaker A: Let me see the COVID This is a Kickstarter one. It doesn't look like this. It's more white, orange, and purple. Yeah, more simple, like flat.
[01:02:26] Speaker C: His first book that he put out.
What's the name of that book?
[01:02:33] Speaker A: This oracle year. And anyone or his other two. Exactly.
[01:02:37] Speaker C: I was at a bookstore when he had the opening. I was there too, and I love that book.
[01:02:45] Speaker B: Yeah.
My point is that we had this whole conversation. It's one of my favorites. I posted it on my substac. It was a wonderful conversation. We never talked about you and that's cause, like, literally, like, one of the few times Alex and I are working together. He's working with Charles on a couple of Star Wars projects.
We never brought it up, and I'm fascinated why we didn't compare notes on you.
[01:03:13] Speaker A: Not to talk about Alex.
[01:03:15] Speaker B: I don't want to admit I have to share Alex or something.
[01:03:18] Speaker C: Listen, I never peed next to him in the bathroom, but we had oysters together. That I remember that.
[01:03:24] Speaker A: It didn't count. It doesn't count if you don't pee next to him in the bathroom. Sorry. That's the only thing you can do. No, Charles is a fun he's also an extremely busy man as well. All you comic book people are extremely busy people. So that's why I always thank you for taking time out of your busy day to do this, especially with families and things like that, too, as well, on this. But yeah, Charles was a great he was a great person on they they were in the same room. So this is another one of those ones where they happened to be together because Ryan flew to New York for a brain strategy planning session for their next project. And so they happened to be together when originally they were supposed to be like this, where there was like, three different places. They were actually in the same room together, which was pretty so which makes.
[01:04:10] Speaker B: Me pine for Alex's return to Portland.
[01:04:12] Speaker A: See, there you go.
[01:04:13] Speaker B: I had him here for years. I had him here for years.
[01:04:15] Speaker C: I know. Well, you were moving houses. It was never a good time. Then pandemic happened.
[01:04:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:04:24] Speaker A: Wait, there was a pandemic? No kidding.
[01:04:27] Speaker B: Before we go, can I do like, a hardcore pitch for the book? We have an actual absolutely, yes.
[01:04:32] Speaker A: I was going to bring that up here. So December 13. I know it comes out, but go.
[01:04:36] Speaker B: December 13.
[01:04:37] Speaker A: I didn't know that.
[01:04:37] Speaker B: All right, so on December 13, alex, Malive and I have created a whole new universe of fun, elevated crime fiction characters, all wrapped around the story of a young woman, Emma, a brilliant 16 year old who discovers that her parents, who she never met, were actually the criminals, criminal.
The thieves with a rulebook. And they responsible for so many of the biggest heists. And then they went after one of the big billionaires in the world, took him for a cool billion and disappeared, never to be seen or heard from again. When we opened the book masterpiece, emma meets the billionaire who just discovered Emma's existence. He didn't know she existed, so he found out who she is, and he has made it his job to kind of ruin her life. So Emma has to put together a group of her friends and her parents'friends and kind of put together a crack team of experts to take down that who cannot be taken.
So that's our story. And what's great is almost every issue. We're introducing you to at least two or three brand new characters that Alex and I have co created together. And by the end of the first series, alex will find out we have invented a whole world of crime fiction for us to play with.
[01:06:09] Speaker C: And good news for everybody, none of these characters look like me.
[01:06:14] Speaker B: Or me.
[01:06:16] Speaker C: Or you.
[01:06:17] Speaker A: That's amazing, too.
[01:06:18] Speaker B: In our daredevil past, quite a few of them look like me.
[01:06:21] Speaker A: Look like you, yes.
[01:06:23] Speaker C: And my wife, too.
[01:06:24] Speaker B: Yes, that's true. However, there's Matt, there's Mila, and there's Stick Man. I think I was Stick. Was stick man.
Yes.
[01:06:38] Speaker C: But I'm proud to say that my son actually is a part of that book.
[01:06:41] Speaker A: There you go.
[01:06:44] Speaker B: I will say, I don't think I've told you this. It's elevated how I write the character. Like, the character's journey is so much more noble and heroic. He's headed towards a good place, because that's what I want you to draw with your son. You know what I mean? Does that make sense? Okay.
[01:07:04] Speaker C: Are you asking me?
[01:07:05] Speaker B: Yeah, I know it's weird, but no.
[01:07:07] Speaker C: This whole pitch that you just made, it was fascinating to me. I didn't know any of that stuff anyway.
[01:07:13] Speaker A: You know the books about yeah.
[01:07:14] Speaker B: Just draw map. Here's what happened in my life. This will only be interesting, like, ten people who know the creative process, right? Two dear friends. I've known them the exact same amount of time. David Mack, alex Malive. Right? Both of them do a Kickstarter for their art books. I don't know if you caught this. They did an art book with Alex, and both of them asked me to contribute text to the book. Right. I write David's. David calls me. And I, of course, take this opportunity to really make it about everything we've been through. I am in a very unique position.
I'm going to tell the story of David and Alex from my very unique perspective and how much I love them and what I think of them and what I've learned. Right. I send it to David. David. David calls me up the next day, crying.
He's drawing pictures of my kid. Like, very emotional. I don't hear a word from Alex. I get another call from David. He said, I just read what you wrote about Alex. It was so beautiful. It was even more beautiful than what you wrote about me. It is so beautiful. And I go, oh, thank you. I go, I have a feeling Alex has never read it and never will read it. The publisher of the book writes me, who I've not spoken to. Hey, I just read what you wrote about Alex. It made me cry.
The next day, Alex gets on the Zoom with me and goes, I'm never reading.
Totally.
I wish I would have written PS. Alex will never read this at the end of what I wrote, because I knew it.
[01:08:47] Speaker C: Can I say something?
When you wrote this thing, it crossed my mind to never read it.
And then I go, if he took his time to write this here we go. I'm going to take my time to read it. And I did.
[01:09:06] Speaker B: You could have told me you were.
[01:09:08] Speaker C: Going to go on your whole life.
We're in a podcast.
Eventually, I was going to tell you that.
[01:09:14] Speaker B: Well, my thing was I wanted you.
[01:09:16] Speaker C: To read it right away because this.
[01:09:18] Speaker B: Is your art book, and if you don't like it, I would like you to tell me.
[01:09:21] Speaker C: No, that's my number 1 july coded me so much.
Nothing in that I would love to change. Nothing beautiful.
And I thank you for it. I want to take the opportunity now to say thank you.
[01:09:38] Speaker B: Now. I'm going to get this out of you on my substac. We're going to do a craft.
[01:09:42] Speaker C: But if you want to go on with the story where I didn't read it, we can go on with that if you want.
[01:09:48] Speaker B: But I say I'm thrilled that you read it. It does make but I was charmed and delighted that you didn't read it, but that I still got the response from David.
I still got the response. I knew I didn't fuck it up.
[01:10:07] Speaker C: But it did cross my mind anyway. But then I thought, remember when you had your 50th birthday? It was, like, 15 years ago.
We were all supposed to send, like, a video message, a surprise, at least. I organized this whole thing. I don't know if you knew that.
[01:10:24] Speaker B: But I know now. Yeah.
[01:10:26] Speaker C: And now you know. And then I had to film myself talking to you on camera, which, you know, I hate, and I I wrote a whole speech. Half of it was in Yiddish, so I figured, you know what? I put in the effort, too.
[01:10:45] Speaker B: Okay. No, yeah, of course. It was never about that, but yeah.
[01:10:51] Speaker C: So I didn't feel bad about it.
[01:10:53] Speaker B: Also, for the record, I'm 56.
[01:10:55] Speaker A: Thank you.
[01:10:57] Speaker B: This feels like 15 years ago.
[01:10:59] Speaker A: I was trying not to say how old you were, but there you go. Al is over there throwing in the bus, calling you 67 years old.
[01:11:05] Speaker B: No, 56 is a weird age because I think 55 was the age where Frank Miller said, Batman returned. That's how old Bruce Wayne was. And returned. And I remember reading it as a young kid and thinking, that was the most fantastical, Sci-Fi idea I've ever heard, a 55 year old man walking around. And now that I'm that age, I'm like, I laughed at my perception of that age was completely wrong.
[01:11:29] Speaker A: I'm 37 and I'm like, I don't want to jump around like Batman jumps around, let alone be 55.
[01:11:34] Speaker B: No, when you get to 55, you're like, oh, this is the only age I could have been Batman.
This is the age where you're crazy enough to be Batman and actually have.
[01:11:43] Speaker A: The money to do it, too, because at 37, I don't have the money to do it. So we have to wait till I actually have the money to do it. Right. My kids are old enough and out of the house and stuff like that. Yeah, no, but it's been amazing chatting with you, too. It's awesome. Get masterpiece on December 13. This will actually drop on December 6. So you have a week to prepare yourself, listen to this episode, and then tell your LCS that you want it and pull it in your poll list and all that stuff.
[01:12:07] Speaker B: Because, yeah, the best thing you can do for any comic book, anything, any music, any movie, is preorder. If you want it, let them know. Again, we were talking earlier how crazy it is to be out trying to sell books to people, and people always go, what can I do to help? And preorder. Let your store know you want it. It lets them know, oh, someone cares. Someone wants this. Maybe I'll order a couple for the shelf, too. So that's the best thing you can do. And we obviously really appreciate that. And if you're a digital fan, that's okay. Just click on it when it's time. I don't care how you buy it, just buy it.
[01:12:43] Speaker A: That was the one I've had a conversation with people about how we talk when their trade comes out, and I'm always like, It's great, because it's at bookstores now, too. So you can buy at bookstores. And I said, but also, if you're not a big fan of online mega retailers, but that's the only way you can get it. Still buy it. Don't not buy it because you don't want to support buying a book still supports the creators no matter where you buy.
[01:13:04] Speaker C: Exactly the point I was going to make.
[01:13:07] Speaker B: Number one, bookstores, mom and pop stores. That's always the first place to go. Small business owners. We are small business owners ourselves. Our companies are small businesses. Yep, we support those. But then beyond that, however, it is convenient for you to have your content. Please go get it.
[01:13:25] Speaker A: Buy it, though.
[01:13:25] Speaker B: Don't what were we going to say?
[01:13:26] Speaker A: Alex?
[01:13:27] Speaker B: I'm sorry I interrupted.
[01:13:28] Speaker C: I forgot what I was going to say.
[01:13:30] Speaker A: It's okay. It's okay.
[01:13:32] Speaker B: Hey, Justin. I feel we are out of our minds tonight, and you handled it very.
[01:13:37] Speaker A: Well, thank you so much.
[01:13:39] Speaker B: We are being goofy.
[01:13:41] Speaker C: No, that was for me. I'm sorry.
It that compliment was for me. Please.
[01:13:47] Speaker A: The funny thing is that for the past week, we went to visit my parents, and my son wasn't going to bed until I have a two and a half year old. And he would go to bed, but then he'd get up and come out to the living room with us and then be like, what's up? And I'm like, no, it's bedtime. You need to go to bed. Then you wake up five minutes later and be like, I got to pee. And then five minutes later, I'm like, Tonight he goes to bed. Around 715, he went right to bed. And I was like, he knew that I was about to jump on a podcast. And I'm like he's like he's like, I'm going to go to bed. I'm going to be good for my dad tonight. So everything worked out perfectly. And Alex, we dragged him here, but that's fine.
Handcuff him to the table.
[01:14:22] Speaker B: He's here and he's still smiling. Believe me, I know. When Alex doesn't want to be here, there's no faking. A smile doesn't happen.
[01:14:29] Speaker C: No, I didn't have my oysters, but I have my ice cream.
[01:14:33] Speaker B: Go Uber. Eats yourself some oysters.
[01:14:35] Speaker A: Exactly.
[01:14:36] Speaker B: All right. Thank you for doing this, Dustin.
[01:14:38] Speaker A: Thank you for taking the time. Absolutely. I appreciate both of you guys. And again, pick up masterpiece, everybody. It's excellent. Please do. Thanks, Erin.
[01:14:46] Speaker B: All right, we'll talk soon. Justin, thank you.
