#258: Tyler Crook - Comic Book Creator

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to the Capes and Tights podcast right here oncapes&tights.com I'm your host, Justin Soderbergh. Once again, we're brought to you by our friends over at Galactic Comics and Collectibles at collective comics and collectibles.com this episode we welcome Tyler Crook, who is a comic book artist and writer. After decades of working in the video game industry, he transitioned over to Comics in 2011, and he's been going hard strong since. He's known for his work on Harrow county, the Lonesome Hunters out of Alcatraz, as well as his story that's featured in the upcoming hello darkness number 17, which drops December 24th at your local comic shop. Story called the Pothole. It's great. You should read it now. Well, on December 24th. But before you listen, follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, threads, Blue sky, all those places you can find us and subscribe and rate and review over on Apple, Spotify or wherever you find your podcasts, as well as you can find the video portion of this over on our YouTube channel. And as always, you can visit capesandtights.com for so much more. And this month we have our end of the year lists, our beginning of the year lists, our Christmas stuff. So check all that out over on Capes and Tights. But this is Tyler Crook, writer and artist of the upcoming hello darkness number 17. But so much more. Enjoy, everyone. [00:01:18] Speaker A: Welcome to the podcast. Tyler, how are you today? [00:01:20] Speaker B: Hey, I'm doing really well. Having a nice damp morning here in Western Oregon. [00:01:25] Speaker A: Yeah, like I said, I also figured out we talked a little bit before we started recording, but like, I bought a house and this is definitely an addition that probably used to be a barn of some sort, but they, like, the people who owned it before me homeschooled their kids in here. And so, like, it has like bookshelves, which is great for, like, my books and stuff like that and like, whatever. But like, when the winter hit, we were definitely like, yeah, I don't think the floor is insulated. Like, it's definitely, like, it's cold here in Maine. And like, I, I walked in the floor. I also moved from a place that had radiant heat and so, like going to a place that the floors are actually cold. I was like, this is not. I don't. And then I realized that, like, the floor, there's a door outside right here. And I don't know think that the bottom sealed very well. So, like, air gets in. And so I'm like, ah, the Heat's working pretty hard in here, man. Like it's not very good. But I think I'm gonna figure it out. It's, you know the perks of owning a home, right? They figuring those things out. [00:02:13] Speaker B: When we moved to Oregon, I like came here and I was like under the impression, I'm like, oh, it rains constantly. So people must like have their houses set up to deal with all this rain. It's like, no, no, no. Every house is just being slowly soaked to death in this state. And. [00:02:32] Speaker B: Same in Maine. It's like you think that they would be ready for the Maine winters, but yeah, no, people just live with it. [00:02:38] Speaker A: Well, I tried to, I've tried to replace a light switch yesterday in my, in my bathroom. So the bathroom, the half bathroom downstairs that my kids use a lot, the light switch is like halfway up the wall, like way up the wall. And so like he can't. My son's 4, he can't reach it. So he's like, get a stool out, turn the light on. So we end up just leaving the light on. And I don't want to do that. So I was like, I'll get one of those like motion sensored ones. Right? Like you're just so that way. Someone walks in the room and then like five minutes later turns off. It'd be great because he never turns the light off anyway. Yeah. And the light, they're always like, connect the gold wire here and the blue wire here and I like, it's 100 year old house. They didn't like. This is not color coded correctly. I had to figure this. I'm like up and down the stairs, turning off the breaker to the basement, trying to figure this out. I ended up not getting it done because it just didn't work. So the old light switch is back. But yeah, old houses are not set up that way. And yeah, weather wise I don't think that they thought though. Well also weather's changed a little bit, right Tyler? I think yeah, it's a little different than it was. [00:03:31] Speaker A: But yeah. So we're here to chat comics and stuff like that. We actually did a quick like email interview with you a couple years ago for our horror week. Just getting to know you a little bit. And so a few people can find that on the Internet somewhere. But I've been meaning to try to get you on. I'm a huge Harrow county fan and so there's that. I'm a fan of your artwork, fan of your writing. I loved out of Alcatraz. So we'll Chat a little bit of that, too. But, like, just getting started, I have my Harrow County. Look at this thing. [00:03:57] Speaker B: Yeah, you got the. [00:03:59] Speaker A: This thing, the dresser drawer. It's like, weighs a ton. First of all, I don't know why I think I got it, because I just love the thing so much that I can't. Yeah. When you and Cullen worked on this, did you ever imagine the number of ways it was reprinted, the legacy that it has now, the feet that it's gotten, all that stuff when you first released issue one? [00:04:22] Speaker B: No, no, never. Like, I never go into any project being like, this is going to be a huge success. I usually go into a project being like, man, I hope. I hope we can, like, do. I hope we can, like, finish this, you know, I hope it doesn't get canceled before, you know, after the first issue or whatever. So. So, yeah, no, it's all just like. It always just feels like a giant gift, you know, how. How well Harrow county does. And. And I really can't believe it's been over 10 years and it's still just chugging along. [00:04:55] Speaker A: It's also published at a publisher that seems to figure out a way to publish it in multiple different options here, like library edition and this and softcover hardcover. It's all these different options out there. But it's kind of funny when you look at it. You can't just search for, like, Harrow county now. It's like there's all these different versions. Like, I try to link in, like, the bio of the podcast. Like, hey, you know, Tyler's known for this. And you click on this thing and it's like, you can't just be, like, click to the trade paperback because there's like, 14 different options for what you can get. This hardcover. It's pretty cool. This is definitely a collector's item to me. It actually sits on a shelf over there holding up my Goosebumps books. One end of the Goosebumps books, that's in good company there. But it. I don't know if I'd ever read it. [00:05:35] Speaker B: It's. Yeah, it's not a physically easy thing to read. Just came out with. [00:05:42] Speaker B: This. [00:05:46] Speaker A: Oh, here. There you go. [00:05:47] Speaker B: Yeah. See, this is basically the same thing, except in the soft cover. [00:05:51] Speaker A: Yeah. And so it doesn't actually, like, weigh a thousand pounds. Yeah, it weighs more than the GI Joe one. Have you seen the GI Joe omnibuses that weigh, like, they literally could blow away in the wind? It's like. [00:06:04] Speaker A: I went to pick it up one day and I think I pulled a muscle my LCs, because I pulled it up thinking it was, in a way, like, 500 pounds and weighing, like, 3 ounces. But, yeah, I can see that. See, to me, still, I have an argument with my LCS owner about an argument. But just, like, a fun jab at each other is that he reads omnibuses, like, all the time. Like, big. He reads, like, all of Amazing Spider Man. He's reading, like, the omnibus of it. And I am like, okay, I want, like, the five trades or the whatever number, because it's like, I want to be able to pick that up and carry it with me and so on and so forth. Like, I'm not gonna, like, go on a plane and, like, shove my omnibus. [00:06:36] Speaker B: In the back of it. [00:06:37] Speaker A: Like, you know, like, so it's one of those things. It's a difference in that. But, like, this is such a cool, like, connection to this one with a drawer. You know, the skins. The whole thing is just the presentation of it is gorgeous. So it's like. That's why when I. It went on sale somewhere, and I was like, I'm gonna get it. I'm gonna get it right now. And afterwards, I'm like, okay, what am I gonna do with it? Literally sits on now, like, literally characters. Like, there's, like, a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle action figure that sits on it because it's like a shelf now. [00:07:03] Speaker B: It's like. [00:07:04] Speaker A: It actually is a drawer he's pulled out. But, yeah, it's pretty cool, though. I think that, like, you know, and then there's been other stuff, but Colin Bunn's one of my favorite comic book writers as well also, if anyone's got a chance. He said he wrote a new novel, too, which is actually really good, too. [00:07:17] Speaker B: I just started that the other day. [00:07:19] Speaker A: It's so good. [00:07:19] Speaker B: Like, very scary and gross. [00:07:22] Speaker A: It is, but it's Cullen Bun for you. Like, it's. It's. It's. It fits. It fits his MO but, yeah, so that's pretty cool, seeing it, like, evolve over the years and do these different things. Tarot County. But now you've got the opportunity to write some stuff and draw and so on and so forth. Do you find a passion in more in one or the other, or is it just, like, you like creating stuff? [00:07:41] Speaker B: I like creating stuff I like. [00:07:47] Speaker B: I like having, like, sort of as much control over what I'm making as I possibly can. [00:07:54] Speaker B: And I feel like I've always, like. I always wanted to write stuff. I always wanted to write comics, but I actually didn't. [00:08:03] Speaker B: I didn't Know how to write. And I didn't know how to learn how to write until I started working with writers. And, you know, I spent a decade working with, you know, some of the best. Like, I worked with John Arcudi, Mignola, Colin Bunn, Jeff Lemire. Like, all these guys. Like, I learned just so much from working with them. And I was like. At some point, I was like, okay, I feel like I can. I see how these things are. Are constructed and how they are developed, and I can sort of like, find my own way to do that. [00:08:34] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And so you did that with loans, the Lonesome Hunters, where you were both, you know, you were almost complete control. You still have some people that are, you know, talking to editors, things like that. [00:08:43] Speaker B: Yeah, I got my editors and stuff. [00:08:44] Speaker A: You still have to answer to some people. [00:08:46] Speaker B: Yeah, but. [00:08:47] Speaker A: Yeah, I can see that. And I understand. I think that's why a lot of people who like Colin speaking, speaking of your partner in crime there for Harold county, writing his novel, like, writing that, it's like 100% him. Like, it's like, yes, editor saying things and so on and so forth. But there's no, like. And sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad. I'm guessing. Like, it's. Sometimes it's nice to have that other person to bounce things off. Like you're writing a comic, having an artist be like, oh, what about this? And so you have that extra. But sometimes it's just like, no, I want to just. I want to do the thing. I want to make sure this is, like, the way I want it to be. And there's no interference in that sense. Right. [00:09:19] Speaker B: Well, there's definitely, like, a little bit of mental protection when you have. When you're working with collaborators. Because if somebody is like, oh, I don't like Harrow County, I can be like, well, maybe you just didn't like the writing. The art was great. You just didn't like the writing. But when it's all you, it really feels like when someone says like, that they don't like it, it really is just sort of like, oh, yeah, you know, like, you don't like what's in my soul, you know? [00:09:48] Speaker A: Well, it's true. I mean, there is series that are out there that, like, art's amazing. It's just not something that grabs me or the story. The opposite. You know, the art's phenomenal in the story. So, yeah, it is one of those things where you can, like, call out one thing. But yeah, if you can't really. Because either way, it's really going to hurt you. [00:10:06] Speaker A: Oh, it was the editor's fault. My editor made me do that. It's all them. It was a publisher. No, but, but yeah, you've been doing full length comics series. You've done, like I said, Harrow county, out of Alcatraz, some of my favorites right now. Out of Alcatraz was phenomenal. Are you a fan of Alcatraz and like the lore and the history behind that, or is that just something that, you know, you partnered up and did we. [00:10:32] Speaker B: No. No. And the answer is no. I, you know, I went. We actually went to Alcatraz for my wife and I's honeymoon. We went to San Francisco and we did go to Alcatraz during that trip. And it was really cool and fun and. [00:10:49] Speaker B: But I hadn't really thought about it in years. Like the thing that really attracted me to that, that project was just. [00:10:56] Speaker B: So the editor, Bess Polaris, just sent me an email kind of out of the blue and was sort of like. [00:11:04] Speaker B: We'Re working on this out of Alcatraz book and I think it's really good. Why don't you take a look at it? And Chris Cantwell, the writer, had been working on it as a screenplay. He wanted to do it as a TV series. And. [00:11:20] Speaker B: And usually like when somebody sends me a script because they sent me a television script for it, and usually when that happens, like, I'm just like, come on. I'm just like, no, don't send me that crap. But I actually was like in a, at a moment where I'm like, I need a job. So, so send it over and I'll see what I think. And I actually just really fell in love with it. Like, Chris structured a story that was like. [00:11:46] Speaker B: Where it's like everybody is dealing with essentially the same issue, but they're all coming at it from different perspectives and they're all coming out from different histories and they're all just trying to figure out this one single problem. And it just felt so, like. [00:12:02] Speaker B: Like focused and emotionally charged and like, and the historical part of it, I really, really like. I always like doing period stuff. [00:12:12] Speaker B: So like I was, by the time I finished the script, I'm like, yeah, let's, let's, let's do this right. And I think it turned out great too. It's one of my. [00:12:23] Speaker B: It'S one of my favorite projects I've ever worked on. And it's a shorter project. [00:12:29] Speaker B: It'S five issues. One of them was a double sized issue. So it's kind of like six issues worth of story. [00:12:36] Speaker B: But I really feel like it. It hits. [00:12:40] Speaker B: Just like characters and themes and everything in a way that, that I just love that I'm. I'm really, really happy with that, with that book. [00:12:49] Speaker A: It stands out to me, honestly. It actually is one of my comic. This is a spoiler to anybody who's going to listen to our Comics of the Year episode. It is one of my comics of the year. Uh, and so there's. It's, it's. It's one of those ones I personally like. I'd read anything. If anybody want to write a comic book on like the, the history of something around the Zodiac Killer, I'd probably read that like, like a heart 100 instantly. And it's one of those things, like the mysteries behind some of these, like, unsolved, like, how the hell have we not solved these specific things or know these specific things and so on. And Alcatraz to me has always been one of those places I've ever want to visit other places in the country. It's been one of those places that's like always been, you know, at the top of that list of wanting to go to. I haven't got a chance to yet. Like, the idea of going there, it's gonna be opened up as a prison again now soon anyway, so don't worry about that. [00:13:30] Speaker B: Right. [00:13:31] Speaker A: But no, so like, so maybe I'll just get arrested and then I'll go there and I'll visit it. No, the. But that the historical fiction part of it, the fact that it's based on like a, like the initial part is kind of based on a true story in a sense, but then you can go anywhere you want with it, which is pretty cool in my opinion. It's like taking a story, like I said, the Zodiac Killer. We haven't cut the Zodiac Killer yet. So you could really tell a story based around who the Zodiac Killer actually is in your comic and still base it in like real life. But we haven't. We have to solve. We haven't discovered this yet. And so that's what Alcatraz to me was. Was like this, like, this could be real kind of thing is like we don't know kind of thing. And so that was kind of cool to me. But then the story evolves into something really cool. And I'm a huge fan of Christopher Catwell as well. And so that helped a little bit too. In. Yeah, over at Onypress was an excellent five, like you said, five issue miniseries, but really kind of had like six Issues worth of comics in it. And the hardcover just came out too, so it's just pretty cool. So you can grab that and have it all in one. I came out in October somewhere on our shelf over there somewhere. But yeah, I didn't grab that one to bring over. The table could only hold so much weight. And Harrow county. [00:14:40] Speaker B: This is good podcasting there. [00:14:42] Speaker A: See, there you go. It's so gorgeous too. I think it's like, I don't know. And the hardcover to me is I'm a huge hardcover novel. Like when I buy novels, I buy them in hardcover because I'm a collector and I want to move things around and do whatever and they hold up better. Number of times I've like put a soft cover book on a shelf and like bent a corner of it or something like that. And so a trade, you know, whatever. But again, I don't know how much this room can hold. And wait, I haven't figured that. It could obviously hold the Harrow county special edition over here. We obviously know that now. But no, it's gorgeous. And I think out of the algorithmic something special about it. Like I said, I don't know if I could put a factual finger on a specific reason why I love the comic. It's just, I don't know. This year it struck a chord with me this year and there wasn't enough good comics this year, Tyler. That's what it was. It wasn't enough good comics. So it fell into the top 10 comics of the year. No, it's a historical fiction part of it to me. I think it struck a chord with me. I don't know. I guess that's what it is. [00:15:37] Speaker B: I think that it's like, it's a story that like, we weren't like super concerned with the Alcatraz part of it. Like that was. That was the jumping off point and sort of like the, the hook for the beginning of the story. But really like. [00:15:55] Speaker B: The historic part of the story, like ends after like two and a half or three pages, you know, and then it's like all just made up, you know, speculative stuff. And it's not even really like. Like if you watched Escape from Alcatraz, the movie, like that movie is like entirely concerned with here's the mechanics of how they were able to escape. It's like that's, that's the. Even the character development is like kind of like. And they weren't really interested in that as much as they were interested in the mechanics of how they got through the wall and got out and we. We approach the story very differently, where it's, like, very little interest in that part of it, but a whole lot of interest in, like. [00:16:42] Speaker B: How these men who were. And women who were living in the, you know, the 60s in America were really trying to navigate this desire for freedom. And, like. Because, like, escaping from Alcatraz did not bring them freedom. [00:17:00] Speaker A: No. [00:17:01] Speaker B: You know what I mean? They're still, like, constrained by what they're able to do and who they are able to be and the ways that they're able to. To live in the world. And. [00:17:11] Speaker B: So, yeah, I just think that. That it turned into a really interesting and. And compelling story about, you know, human. You know, human motivations and. And. And. And I think it is, like, really, like one of those stories that's sort of uniquely about America in a way, and like, trying to decide, especially in that time period in America where. [00:17:37] Speaker B: People were really trying to explore ways of. Of, you know, pushing the limits of their freedom and their liberty within. Within the larger society. And. [00:17:48] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. They're criminal. There are criminals. Like, obviously they're criminals because they're in Alcatraz, so they escape it. But for some reason, I felt myself cheering them to succeed at what they were doing, because, I don't know, it was one of those things. It's like this. Again, it roots in the fact that the mystery behind who's escaped Alcatraz and so on and so forth. But then, so you're like, they did make it to shore. Most of them made it to shore. Or. Yeah, I don't want to spoil it for anybody is. But then you want to see them succeed at what they're doing. And so as they go along and they go along and they find these different things and encounter these different problems, I want them to succeed at what they're doing because of the fact that I'm like, they did it. Screw the. You know, screw the government, Screw whatever it may be. Screw the people. Even though I'm like, wait a second, they were in there for a reason. Whether how small or big the reason was, they're still in there for a reason. So I'm still like, oh, that's kind of weird. So it's like. It's the same thing with, like, if I read a Zodiac killer thing, I'm like, oh, cool, he got away with it. But wait a second. He killed a bunch of people. I shouldn't be cheering for this person. But again, it's a. It's a fictionalization of. Of the story. Yeah, but. [00:18:52] Speaker B: Yeah, well, One of. One of the cultural myths about Alcatraz is that it was, like, the prison where they put the worst of the worst. [00:18:59] Speaker A: Yes. [00:19:00] Speaker B: And. And our criminals. Frank Morrison was in for. [00:19:09] Speaker B: Oh, man. I think he did. I think he did. Robbery with a fake gun. And the. The other brothers were in for, like. [00:19:18] Speaker B: Forging checks. But the reason why they were in Alcatraz specifically was because they had all tried to escape various prisons that they were in in other, you know, in other states. And so it's like, they weren't, like, especially, like, hardened, violent criminals or anything like that, but they were like. [00:19:39] Speaker B: But they were serial escapists, you know, and they got. [00:19:43] Speaker A: I said. And they. They get out of Alcatraz whether they succeed at what they're doing, and they'll let you figure that out as reading the comic. But, like, the idea that they actually escaped the island itself, it's like, oh, yeah, they did it. They got to land. They cheer them on. Yeah. Go, go, go, go. Was just. I don't know what it is. It's. But it also reminded me. I watched that show. It was. I forgot TV show or channel was on. But Alcatraz, it was called Just Alcatraz. And it was about, like, people who were on the island, like, which just started to appear. Like, older, like, people who have, like, died, like, have just started to appear. And they're trying to bring these. It's like, some sort of supernatural element to the show, but, like, it got canceled with, like, one episode left, and so they showed the last episode with a super cliffhanger, and they never made any more of the show again. So I've always been like, oh, I want to revisit this show. This would be amazing. I love the whole, like, mystery behind or the theme behind Alcatraz. And they're like. But I get to the other last episode. I'm like, God damn it. I keep setting myself up for failure here because I wanted to continue, and they never continued it, so. Yeah. So Alcatraz always had that. I think that's what caught me. And I think that's what you mean. One of the big things is, is it probably says the words Alcatraz on it. So people, like, were initially, you know, interested in grabbing the comic book, and then once they get reading it, then they're hooked onto it, I think. I think that was. It's a great way and a great base to the story. But again, yeah, it's only the beginning of the story, and there's a. Is there a couple flashbacks, like, where they Talk, because they talked to someone else and they talked about. They interview people on the island to try to find out how they escaped or something like that. But other than that, it's basically on the run from there and trying to, you know, get to freedom. But yeah, it's like. So you've also. You're artisan writer and you work with some pretty, you know, bangers of writers. When you do do just the art. Christopher Cantwell, Cullen Bunn, like there's those people off the top. What is it like that. I mean, do you. Do you. Do you get along with these people very well? Do you enjoy working with them? Not the specific people, but all the people. Do you like working in tandem with people like that? I mean, obviously we mentioned you like working alone, but like, you and you get to work with someone else. [00:21:41] Speaker B: I like, you know, I'm. I'm sort of like. [00:21:47] Speaker B: I get really bored of doing one thing, so I really like mixing it up between, like, writing my own stuff and then working with writers. And, um, it feels like it uses different muscles, artistic muscles in the process and working. Every writer that I've worked with is different. I mean, some writers, I'm, you know, in constant communication with others, they just send me the script and I bang it out and. And it's, you know, everything's just a little bit different. But I really like. I really like that it's different. You know, I like that every project is. Is its own thing and that I'm trying to figure out how to tell the story that I'm either coming up with or has been presented to me and, you know, based on its own, you know, do that. Dealing with the story and the collaborators on their own terms is really fun and interesting to me. [00:22:40] Speaker A: You also, if you like, look at your, like your history of comics and what you've worked on. So because you're an artist, do you do a number of variant covers and things like that too? Do you enjoy that part of it too, where you get to like, dabble in a bunch of different universes of sorts? Because you get to do the variant cover. Like you did a magic cover coming up here, and so you get to work with the magic universe and so on. Is that fun too? I mean, obviously it's fun. You wouldn't be doing it. It's fine. [00:23:01] Speaker B: But. [00:23:03] Speaker B: The, the variant covers are really fun. But I have to really like, like my main. The thing that I enjoy more is storytelling. So I enjoy doing interiors much more than I like doing covers. And I spend like. [00:23:17] Speaker B: I Don't know. Like, I. I get a lot of, like, variant cover requests, and I say no to probably two thirds of them because I try to schedule them so that I'm not, like, only doing covers. Because doing just a single image is. [00:23:34] Speaker B: It's its own kind of challenge and its own kind of fun. But it's not as fun and challenging as. As telling a story and doing sequential, you know, interior pages. For me. Yeah. [00:23:45] Speaker A: And it's. It's funny how some people, like, if I find a living. And that's what they do is variant covers. It's like this pays the bill. And then a sequential or something else is just something that. The opposite, where they just, like, fill time with that, but they just do variant covers. What they do. And, like, I gotta make sure I get the XYZ cover. When I'm at the local comic book shop, it's always like, I want the, you know, Scotty Young cover or. Or the so and so cover, you know, and it's what they find there. Think. Yeah, I can see what you're saying. It's like there's more storytelling in sequential art than there is just, you know, you can only get so much story across in. In a cover. And a lot of times it's someone else's story. So it's not even like you have, like, that much control over that. You mean you have control over some of it. Like, it's like someone else's characters and story that need to be on that cover. You can't just be like, I'm gonna do what I want. [00:24:27] Speaker B: Well, and lots of times, too, though, like, you'll get a variant cover thing, and they'll be like, you know, it's this character. And I'm like, all right, you want to send me the. The script or the story outline? And they're like, oh, we don't have that yet. It's just that. It's just that guy. Just do a picture of that guy. And that's, like, not as fun to me. Like, I really like it when I can get, like, if I can see, like, story pages and, like, know what the story is and do a cover that's, like, based on that, then I get. Then I'm a lot happier. But sometimes that just isn't available. [00:24:59] Speaker A: Well, I'm. I'm a graphic designer by trade. My day job is designing beer labels for a brewery and. Or amongst other things. But my main job is that. And so it is funny when the ownership sometimes comes to me, and it's like, hey, can you do a beer label that has this. A monkey doing this. It's like, it's like literally the entire. You just described it to me, but like, they don't have the skills to put it into. Onto a label. So, no, I have to do it. And if I don't do exactly the way they had it envisioned, I'm always like, they're always like, that's not what I had a vision. I'm like, okay, that's not very fun. It's basically you're just telling me like to do something in a specific way. And it's like, I always want to be like, can I also do what my interpretation of this label would be and give it to you and see if you like that too? But yeah, it's always. Or, or sometimes they do literally come to me like, we have the color blue in mind and we need to do a label. I'm like, oh, cool, now I have nothing to go on here. [00:25:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:47] Speaker A: And then you make the label and they're like, nah, that's not what we were picturing. I'm like, but yeah, so label. I would say beer labels and variant covers are similar vein in that, like, you have one image to really get a story across. [00:25:58] Speaker B: I started my career doing graphic design stuff and I literally had clients. I worked at a design studio and. And we literally would have clients that would sit over my shoulder, like next to me and be like, move that up just a little bit. Yeah, like, click, click, move it down. Click, click. Pretty miserable. [00:26:23] Speaker A: Oh, it is. It's like, it's. It's literally to the point where you have a skill that someone else doesn't have. And that's, that's the. You, you, you're doing something because they can't do it, even though they want to be able to do it. And that's hard. And it's one of them. I mean, I'm glad I have lucky I have a job at a specific location doing specific thing because it is an industry that's dying in a sense that people are being able to do it themselves or use other software online that's like helping them. You know, it's the whole web design thing. It's like web designers are very few, far and few between now because it's so much quote unquote, easier to do it yourself and cost effective that graphic designers. I have a couple of friends of mine that are looking for jobs because of the fact that they don't have it. So I'm lucky enough that I actually have like a business to work for that I do it just for them and so I don't have to worry about it. And people have asked me, hey, can you do this? I'm like, no, I don't have time. I don't. I don't want to do it. Plus, again, it's usually a favor. And it's like, you know, you. Oh, hey, can you hook me up with this? I'll trade you that. I'm like, I don't have time for this because you're also going to nitpick me and not get a full value out of this thing. If you're gonna pay me a couple thousand dollars, we'll talk. But if you're gonna be like, hey, I'll give you a case of beer, I'm like, I can get that. I don't need. I don't need your case of beer. [00:27:29] Speaker B: Yeah, and there is like. And it's not universal, but there is like a real, like, the more people pay you, the more they trust you to just do your job. And the less they pay you, the more they're gonna, like, really ride your ass and, like, make sure you, you know, do exactly what they want. And. [00:27:52] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And so, like I said, it's, it's. My wife has even done things for her work where she's like, I just went on this website and was able to do this and I was like, oh, cool, thanks for taking our jobs away. [00:28:03] Speaker A: I'm the guy that goes and like, talks to the cashier at the grocery. No, I use self checkout, so I'm to blame on that too. So. But yeah, it's kind of funny in that situation, I think that, you know, but yeah, I could see the whole, like, single static image being a less creative in freedom of being able to tell the story. And so I can see doing interiors. I just don't have that in me. I don't know if I could draw the same character doing a different thing. I just, I don't. I just. To me, it's just so hard for me to grasp that. And like, I'd get bored by the fourth band. I'll be like, I want to draw something else. [00:28:36] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, no, I love, like, even before I got into comics, I was really into. Whenever I did, like, I did a lot of painting just as a hobby, you know, I did. I, like, I was working, doing video games, and then I'd come home at night and paint. And even when I was just painting, I would get really, really bored of painting, like a single image. And I Would lots of times, like take a panel and like divide it down the middle and do two paintings together, like to, to exist as one piece of artwork. But it's like having that juxtaposition is like. [00:29:10] Speaker B: Really, really fun. And I always feel like. And I had this feeling when I was in video games too. Like I, I made. I worked on sports games. I worked on a game called Game Day for a couple years. And I remember the first time I made a character model of one of the players. And you know, I took it through the process to get it into the game. And then I went over to one of the programmers desk and he was like playing this little guy. I was like, like, holy. The guy came to life like that little guy on my screen. He came to life. And I, and I feel that a lot with comics where it's like you do that panel to panel and like this, the drawing like really feels like it has come to life for me. And it's like these little guys in the. In their squares are having adventures and I'm just like, I don't know, it's. It's way more exciting to me. It feels like more. [00:30:01] Speaker B: Like these things come to life. [00:30:02] Speaker A: You know, I, I have two or three ideas that I've wanted to write a comic book. At some point I'm gon sit down and actually just do it. But like, to me, I'm always that same thing. If I say I was like, oh, Tyler, you want to write a. Do a comic book together? And you're like, cool. And you sent me artwork, I'd be like, that's awesome, let's do it. Like, I would never have much feedback back because to me it would be like, you did that. You took my. What I had pictured in my head and put it to life. And I'm like, oh, cool, now, now we know what the characters look like. Because I didn't really know what they look like in my head. And you made them happen. So I don't think I would. I would be a very good partner to work with because I'd be like, cool, you do what you want. I don't know, man. You had it in your head. You had, you know, you have a vision. And I think that's what it is. I think when you talk to an artist and you say this is my idea, I think immediately we start clicking what characters would look like or what things would look like and they start doing that and you start doing motion. And again, I don't think you have enough freedom in that. Like you were mentioning on just a cover, but yeah, my person's come to life. I can picture that. That's pretty cool. Do you find, you mentioned that similarity, but do you find a lot of similarities between video game and the comic book world or is it pretty much separate? [00:31:04] Speaker B: It's very different. Like, well, at least like the way I did video games because I worked at a pretty big studio and it's like in that, in that context, you're really just sort of like a cog in the machine, you know, like you're just doing your little bit and it goes together with, you know, 80 other people's little bits and it all just sort of, you know, you, you're not working on anything. And I also worked on sports games. [00:31:29] Speaker A: Yeah. So which are not like the most. [00:31:31] Speaker B: Artistically adventurous format of video game. [00:31:36] Speaker A: When's the last time you worked in a video game? Like, like legitimately, like, work. It says 2011 in your bio. Is that sound right? [00:31:42] Speaker B: Yeah, 2011 was when I quit and started doing comics full time. [00:31:47] Speaker A: So like 15 years ago, roughly, or 14 years ago. [00:31:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:52] Speaker A: Video games are different now, huh? [00:31:54] Speaker B: Like. [00:31:57] Speaker B: Yes and no. Like, I think that. [00:32:02] Speaker B: Like the technology is like slightly different. [00:32:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:09] Speaker B: But the same challenges exist. [00:32:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:12] Speaker B: Like, there's like. [00:32:15] Speaker B: I don't know, I don't play a ton of video games anymore. Like, actually as soon as I quit video games, I didn't play a video game again until. [00:32:25] Speaker B: Like, probably eight years. And then because every time I went to like pick up a game, I would just like start going to video game developer mode and start thinking like, oh, how did they do the shaders? Like, oh, how is this character rigged? What's going on with the game? And it was exhausting. And then I finally started playing Minecraft and I was like, like, that game is just laid so bare that I was like, oh, I don't even have to think about it. I can just like, just enjoy it for what it is. And that sort of has gotten me back into games a little bit. But like. [00:32:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't know, it feels like, it feels like the same kind of like, like add a few more polygons every year and act like, you know, games are all new. [00:33:08] Speaker A: Yes. [00:33:08] Speaker B: And it's kind of the same, same stuff. And I guess the real big stuff is like the open world. Things have gotten a lot better. [00:33:16] Speaker A: Yeah. It's crazy. To me, I'm. To me, it's still like, I, I play Grand Theft Auto and I. And I played like Red Dead Redemption. Those style games where you can like kind of take your pace and do kind of your own thing kind of thing. I'm video games in general, and so I would like, like to play Mario like that, that, like the original Mario, not like the Mario that my kids are going to play. But yeah, to me, it's just the simplicity of it. But yeah, I can, I can. But I used to work in the restaurant business. I was a general manager for a restaurant and I would go into other restaurants and do that. Like, it sucked to go out to eat because you'd sit down and be like, well, we would do it differently. Oh yeah, that person, that person's not doing that right? Or, oh, that would be a good. We could implement that in our restaurant, like that kind of thing. And it's like it never worked out well going to another restaurant because the entire time you're there, like, your friends are all talking and you're like, in another world thinking about other things. And I'm like, yeah, this is not good. I can't do this anymore. And so, yeah, I can see that not taking a break from video games made a little sense now and getting into it. But yeah, but yeah, you're in the comic world now, which is obviously, you know, changing and evolving a little bit. Like, it's not, it's. It's kind of the same as it was in 2011 when you do it. But like, I don't know, there's just a different vibe to it over the past couple of years. [00:34:24] Speaker B: No, I think it's way different than when I first started. Well. [00:34:29] Speaker B: And some things are way different. Like, I think culturally it's way different. Like, I really think that more. And, you know, it ebbs and flows, but I really feel like publishers are more open to women and marginalized creators doing stuff now than they were in, in 2011. But like I said, it ebbs and flows. Like it, it gets better and it gets worse and gets better and gets worse. [00:34:55] Speaker B: And, and obviously the distribution stuff from the last couple years is, has just been ridiculous. And the, the social media changes have, have had a big impact on the industry, I think, too, which, which kind of stinks. [00:35:07] Speaker A: And I don't want to go on a whole tangent about social media, but, like, the number of creators I've talked to on this podcast, you know, this is episode like 259 or something like that. And so over the years, I've talked to so many creators that like the good portion of them, like, how'd you get on this book? We DM'd on Twitter. And like, it's like that. That connection of, like, you know, 250 episodes talking to someone about this is, like, cool. And like, they were on Twitter still and still talking and still trying to get work on Twitter. And nowadays it's like, people are like, we should just get rid of social media because all of it's crap. And all that stuff now, it's been crap basically since the beginning anyway, with. But the idea that it was so much more, you could connect a little bit easier because now you don't even know. Like, now I'm like, hey, how do I get a couple of Tyler? Is he on Instagram? I don't know. Is he on Blue Sky? Is he on whatever new thing, fan thing, is always still on Twitter. Oh, cool. You know, like, that kind of thing. It's like, it's not as easy anymore. And I think that changed a little bit of how people connected with each other on getting jobs, even. I think there's a little bit more. People are like, you should just DM someone on Twitter and be like, hey, you want to work together? [00:36:06] Speaker B: Well, it really feels like all these social media companies came in and took over. [00:36:15] Speaker B: All of these different forms of communication and sharing. [00:36:19] Speaker B: And destroyed the stuff that was before it. And then they'll tweak the algorithm and it won't work for you anymore. And it's like, at least I hope people are starting to really sort of feel how social media is not, like, reliable way to, like, if you. If you. You know, if you. If you're business or your career relies on social media, then you need to, like, work on something, you know, something else. And I at least have a website where people can contact me. [00:36:54] Speaker A: Yes. Yes. Yeah. Well, I've always thought about that with any day who's an influencer on there, or they make their chunk of money and you see them at their house, like, you see them over the years. Like, you. Them at the beginning, and they're in their basement of their mother's house. And also, I know you see, like, a video where, like, they're in this massive kitchen. It's like, obviously they use their funds from social media to buy this big house. But I'm. In my mind, I'm. It's scared shitless that, like, tomorrow they just aren't able to do that anymore. So, like, I could see it, these people over the years, people diversifying and actually, like, getting into different businesses with the money they're using. It's a smart thing to do. It's like, don't Just take the money from social media and spend it. Because there's. One of these days it's not going to be there anymore. Like, it's not going to work. [00:37:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:34] Speaker A: And so it's like, it's not in the same way, because again, even some of my friends who were like, in Extra, my. The brewery I work for, it's like, we. We follow likes and shares and all that stuff. And it's changed. Like, we used to be able to post a photo that was really cool of just someone on the ski mountain and get. You know, we have 25, 30,000 followers, and you'd get 10,000 likes. Now you. The same photo you post now could get like 400. And it's just like, all the algorithms have changed. Like you mentioned, that doesn't work the same way anymore. It's just. It's. It's. You know, we've seen it on our social media. Just the interactions aren't there anymore and all that stuff. So, like, things have changed. And again, part of it is not everybody's in one spot. It used to be that, like, in the comic book world, like, the majority of people were on Twitter. So you could actually go on Twitter and be like, okay, this is where you're gonna find someone. Or like, it was like, twitter and Instagram. Now it's like, you don't know. Like. Like, someone's like, I'm just go back on my Tumblr. I'm gonna get my live journal going again. Like, they're like, we're gonna go back and do that now. MySpace. Where's MySpace? [00:38:29] Speaker B: And it's also, like, just really. It got really clear to me. I don't know, probably like, five years ago, just when I realized that a lot of. There's, like, a lot of artists that I really loved and follow on social media, and, you know, they would have like, 50,000, 60,000 followers on, like, Instagram. And then. [00:38:53] Speaker B: And then I would know just from, like, knowing the artist that they're having a hard time paying rent. And it's just like. And I would have, like, my 2,000 followers and be like, I'm paying rent. Like, how is that not translating to money? And it's like. And it's true, but it's just like, there's. There's a complete disconnect between, like, social media popularity and your ability to make a living. [00:39:15] Speaker A: It's crazy. But, yeah, so you have other things. But one of the things I have noticed, and it's maybe there was a gap almost. There wasn't like it's changed. Not, not more of it, but like anthologies. Like I feel like there was like all the major publishers now have some sort of. Or not all of them. But like if you have your independent publisher, like, you know, you'll have hello Darkness at Boom and you have the EC stuff and you know, I'm blanking on. [00:39:38] Speaker B: The other has Creep Show. [00:39:40] Speaker A: Yep. Like they have these different outlets now. I feel like it's pretty cool to see these spots and, and I think that like, maybe I just didn't take notice to it as much, but I feel like recently was like all the publishers that I like have something and it may be not all year, but at least they put something on around the holidays like Halloween special or a Christmas one or so on and so forth. You have Chris Ryle and Jordan Hart doing Dread the Halls. Like you have them doing their thing. So it's. You have this place in this landscape that you can tell some of these stories. Do you. I mean you've now written for a couple of them and illustrated for a couple of them. Do you find that fun? Do you have that short story kind of like thing we can get a cool quick story out? [00:40:21] Speaker B: Yeah, I love it. I love short stories. And it's like. [00:40:26] Speaker B: You know, whenever it's. [00:40:29] Speaker B: They have their own challenges, you know, like doing a really short story is. You have to like create a whole world within, you know, X number of pages and then like get to the end. But it also feels like much lower stakes. Like you don't actually have to like, like do Lord of the Rings. You can actually just do a story like, like I did that story for EC called Grey Green Memories that is like eight pages of a zombie standing in a grocery store. And like that's it. And it was just like, it was a story that I've actually had like in my sketchbook from like before I got into comics and, and I was just like, yes, I can finally do that. And it was like. And I think it's like, like a, a wonderful little story. But I don't know, it's just, it just scratches a different itch than, than doing long form stuff. And I, I, yeah, I wish it was like. [00:41:22] Speaker B: I wish it was more popular. Like, I wish, like, I think anthologies are great and I wish there was more of them. [00:41:28] Speaker A: Yeah, I think, I think it's fun. And I think, I mean most of them, I would think that the majority of that we've seen are horror. Right? I mean there's not many, many anthologies that don't Circle around horror, which is, which is great. But to me it's that quick hit that, that complete story. Or, or. But we've also seen both sides where either it's spun out to something or they plan to just like give you a teaser of it in the anthology and then it spun out into something because they're planning that all along or they've seen the success of a specific story, people talking about it on social media or whatever, and they've gone out of that. So you've seen Boom has a couple that have come out of Hollow Darkness and you've seen, you know, EC's done some couple ones that have come out of that and so on and so forth, which is pretty cool. But like, yeah, the quick hit part of it, like, you know, especially these ones that are based around the holidays. I mean, you did the Headless Horseman one over at Dark Horse, like that idea that you can read it in October and be like, cool, I got this. And then potentially like holiday ones, you could go back to like, you do Christmas movies where you could be like, every Christmas I'm just gonna sit down and make sure I get my Hallow Darkness from this year and My Dread Doll, you know, and they put them all together and they go back to that shelf and be like, these are my anthologies for holiday and read those again. Which is pretty cool. And I think that there's some of those that do that and I think that, you know, these anthologies are fun to like, like again, people are trade waiting nowadays, so it's like instead of that, you can buy these anthologies hopefully every week, depending on the publisher, and read a story that's complete and you don't have to worry about waiting till next month to get the end of the story or whatever. It's pretty cool, you know, it's interesting. [00:42:53] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I agree. I wish, you know, the thing I wish that they would bring back is backup stories. You know, we did that in Harrow County. We did the one page backup story. And I like, I really think that, that like every publisher should dedicate like two to four pages the back of every issue to do a backup story. Even if it's unrelated to the actual story. Yeah, yeah. Just as a way for like new creators especially to like be able to get in front of eyeballs and, and sort of develop that talent, you know? [00:43:26] Speaker A: Well, that's good. I love how you said that because like the, the, the Shining anthology book that's coming out in a couple next couple years, it's, it's, it's the secret second in the step universe that they did the. The one on the stand. The stand, yeah, yeah, well, the shining one. It's like They've got like 10 authors that are like New York Times bestselling authors, but then they're doing open call for authors that you, you must not have X, like publish with the top five publisher and all this. And I was like, that is so badass because like you're gonna be able. No one's gonna. I said, no one little number of people are gonna like skip those stories. Like you're gonna read the book. And so like seeing that ability to actually have that and the same thing in a backup story of a comic or even in these anthology have, you know, you doing a story and Kathleen doing a story and then have it be like some random person who gets a three page story in the middle there that you actually like. I'm not going to like skip over that one to get to the next story. I'm like, it's a comic book. I'm just going to read the whole thing. And I think that would be kind of cool, cool place to get people started. I think that, you know, to connect this to the variant cover. I think that's what I do appreciate about variant covers. There is that ability for artists to get their eyes out there, sometimes doing store exclusives or so on and so forth. The variant covers. Because there's definitely some creators who have been like, like, oh my God, this is beautiful. I've never heard of them before. And they literally have a couple of independent stuff or Kickstarter stuff, but don't have anything major. And then they get some work from that because people actually see it in front of their eyes. So yeah, backup stores would be fun. And then you can almost like include it in the trade or like release a single issue of it collected. If it was like per issue, it continued would be kind of cool too. But yeah, anthologies are awesome in my opinion. And so obviously you like doing them. So you're gonna do some more of them. [00:45:01] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I'm actually working on one today. [00:45:04] Speaker A: Oh, there you go. So there you go. But see, hello Darkness is one that came out. We're now on the 17th issue as of December 24th will be the 17th issue in that series. And that one's kind of cool too because as a fan of comics and prose fiction novels, I've seen some crossover now with like, you know, in these anthologies. Creepshow had Philip Fracasi, who's a great author, did a story in A creep show comic, hello Darkness had Chuck Tingle, who's a phenomenal and awesome horror writer, did a story on hello Darkness. And so seeing these people getting an opportunity to dip their toes in the potential world of comics without having to do a whole series is pretty cool, too. Seeing that. But also, like I said, you get a difference in artists like you in doing the story that you're doing the art in story for in this hello Darkness issue. And also, Zach Kaplan, I feel like you're not the same creators. And so seeing that in the same issue is kind of cool. You have two different style of stories in the same, same whatever number of pages. It's pretty cool. [00:46:01] Speaker B: Yeah, I totally agree. And I think that also gives. [00:46:05] Speaker B: Creators a good place to sort of, like, run little experiments. [00:46:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:46:10] Speaker B: You know, to do storytelling and stylistic risks that they wouldn't normally take, I think. Yeah, that's right. I think it's. I don't know. It's hard to, like, undersell how important anthologies can be for the medium. I think that the problem is just, like, commercially, they usually aren't, you know, big money makers. [00:46:31] Speaker A: No, you're right. But. But it seemed like someone got together at publishers, and we're like, hey, let's do this starting in 2020. Let's, like. Because it's like one after another, it was just like Creep show kind of returned and you saw hello Darkness doing theirs. And, you know, it's like you, You, You. You have this different publishers doing them. And it's just kind of funny that, like, all of a sudden I know EC doing, you know, all. All the different ones hon. [00:46:55] Speaker A: Ones they've got going on. But it's just kind of funny. I was like, it seemed like everybody got together. I'm like, we're going to do this now. Let's. Let's make this happen. [00:47:01] Speaker B: This is our new thing. [00:47:03] Speaker A: We're not. It doesn't make us a bunch of money, but I guess we're all going to do it. Like, I guess this is fun. [00:47:08] Speaker B: They must be sort of, like, doing pretty well, I guess, for everyone to be hopping on it. [00:47:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:47:14] Speaker B: You know, it's like. But there's. It's just. I don't. Comics publishing in particular really feels like there's fads that publishers go through. Like, it's. It's like license stuff is really, really popular right now. Like, everybody's excited about Transformers and GI Joe and all that stuff. And so it's like everyone is trying to find their license to do, you know, in the last couple years, it's, it's. [00:47:38] Speaker A: It's insane. I feel like it was one of those things. We started reviewing comics and you get to review XYZ comic from the 1980s cartoon and then you're like, oh, this is cool. This is so great to see this back. And then by the time you do the fifth review of the fifth different series star, like, what new can I say about this? Like, what, I can't say the same thing? Like, this is really cool to see it modernized and brought to detention. Because it was something I watched as a kid. Like, I can't do. I just copy and paste that from the original review in there, change the words, and then add about the actual issue. But it was like I just kept on saying it and then to a point where I was like, well, I don't know if I want any more. Like at this point, like, can we wait a couple years before we do some more and get them out there? Because it just seemed like all of a sudden I know where it was. Like, every kind 90s 80s cartoon that, that was a hit in that time period has a new series coming out. And I was just like, I don't know if I want all this. I want more anthologies. No, but you have a story, the Pothole, which resonated to me a little bit. I got a glance at it this morning because I got an advance copy from Boom. But we have potholes here in Maine. They're big and they're bad, and they're not the same big and bad as what potentially would happen in the Cello Darkness issue. But can you give a synopsis of what the actual story is about without giving it away, you think, or. [00:48:49] Speaker B: Well, it's about a man who goes to the city council meeting because there's a pothole. [00:48:57] Speaker B: And he has a very difficult time explaining how big of a problem it is. And even in the end, when they do decide that it's a problem, they don't fully understand what's at stake. [00:49:14] Speaker B: So I guess that's probably about as much as I want to say. And it's just a 10 page story. Like, it's. [00:49:18] Speaker A: Well, that's, I guess, the hard part, I think the Cell anthologies one is that it's a bunch of different stories in one and trying to describe all of them and not make this like the solicitation, like three paragraphs long or something like that. But also, like, you can't describe the entire story. You're gonna give the whole thing away. Like, at least you could give. Like, even if you give away the first issue of five issue miniseries. Like you'd have the rest to deal with with this is like, if you give away the first five pages, you're like, cool. Might as well just tell me the whole story. [00:49:44] Speaker B: Yeah, well, and like, well, this, this story particularly came out of like starting to go to city council meetings here in my own little town and being like. And just seeing how it is, like. [00:49:59] Speaker B: Like especially in small towns. What I think a lot of people don't understand is that like your, your local government is very. [00:50:08] Speaker B: It'S run by amateurs. Like it's all people who are not getting paid. [00:50:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:50:13] Speaker B: Volunteering to, you know, be city councils. And they're not professionals and they're just trying to like, do their best and then the community goes to them and they're trying to like, they're not experts at like, you know, interfacing with, with government officials. So they're like, like amateurs at that too. And it's just like, I don't know, it's just this weird. [00:50:40] Speaker B: Like it's equal parts terrifying and inspiring because it is like just people trying to figure it out. [00:50:46] Speaker A: Well, it's true because I mean, I, I don't think that even if I had a problem, like 9 times out of 10 if I see a problem, sadly don't think I'm ever going to do anything about it because I just think like, oh, I have to go to town hall. I have to sit there in the meeting and do it. I had a buddy of mine who, who just, they posted a video of him actually Bangor, Maine City Council meeting about this crack house down the street from his house that they just won't do anything about. Like they literally, they call the cops and they just won't do anything. So he went to the Bangor City Council, like, we need to do something. We also have a massive homeless and drug population in our town. And so like he was mentioning about that, about how they're just basically letting people camp out and like, they're not trying to figure out other issues or whatever. And he went to it and he's like, it took him like two years before he's like, finally, I'm gonna go do this meeting. And he says the sad thing about it is that likely nothing's gonna happen again. The people sitting on the other side of the table from him don't really have a lot say to do some of these things. And like, and so yeah, the, the. [00:51:42] Speaker A: The fear of already going to the town hall is the scary part to me. Not even figuring out this this man's problem with the pothole. [00:51:49] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:51:50] Speaker A: Like, it's like there's multiple fears here and one of them would be the potholes of fear. And then also actually just standing in front of people and telling what the problem is. [00:51:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:51:59] Speaker A: But, yeah, so you're in this story, as you said, a 10 issue, 10 page story. Zach Kaplan has a story in this one which is pretty cool. And you've been in, like I said, you've been in a number one. You've done. Was it Cruel Universe? Is that the one you've read or Epitaphs from the Abyss. [00:52:12] Speaker B: Epitaphs from the Abyss, yeah. [00:52:14] Speaker A: Yeah. Which has phenomenal covers, by the way. [00:52:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:52:18] Speaker A: Lee was one of my favorite artists. I don't know. Sorry, Tyler. But like, he's one of my favorite artists. [00:52:22] Speaker B: Yeah, he's great. [00:52:24] Speaker A: It's scary sometimes where I'm like, this is not a photo. Like, come on, man. [00:52:28] Speaker B: I did a second story too with Matt Rosenberg. [00:52:31] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. [00:52:33] Speaker B: I don't remember which numbers they're in. [00:52:35] Speaker A: I know I have it open right here. I have issue two is the one with gray green memories, which has the clown cover on it, which is pretty amazing. I actually had it here. I had it open and then I went away. But you've been in a couple of those. You've done, like I said, the Halloween ones for Dark Horse and things like that. So. I mean, Harrow county and the Lonesome. You're a horror vibe. To you. Is that something that you're passionate about? Is the horror side of things too, not just the comic book side of things? [00:53:08] Speaker A: Or do you think your artwork just lends itself to it? [00:53:11] Speaker B: Like, yes and no. Like I really like. [00:53:16] Speaker B: Like if I. If I could do a book like a comic that felt like a Carson McCullers novel, that would be like the pinnacle. But that, but that's not like, I don't think that's something that there'd be a lot of work to make that work as a comic book. So I feel like the horror to me is really just sort of a way of. [00:53:49] Speaker B: Like doing particularly emotional stories and stories that like tie into. [00:53:56] Speaker B: Just day to day fears and anxieties and stuff in a way that, that I don't feel like I. At least I could do with like superheroes or. [00:54:08] Speaker B: Or anything else. In fact, like out of Alcatraz, I kind of felt like was a horror story in its own right, you know, it's like it just. I just feel like whenever there's something that's. [00:54:24] Speaker B: I don't know, I Think that being a human on the earth. [00:54:27] Speaker A: Yes, yes. [00:54:29] Speaker B: Like, any, any story that can really tie into like human experiences and human anxieties is like. [00:54:38] Speaker B: Is something that I want to explore in my story. So it's like, like, that's, that tends to be horror. [00:54:42] Speaker A: Well, yeah, it's true. I mean, there's so many. Some of my favorite stories are the ones that are like, this is horror that you put horror on top of. Like, you added horror to the horrific thing already. Like, this is already scary in the first place. Like I, I just had Hannah Rosemay on and talking about 1600 pen and being like, I don't want to be a kid of a president in the first place. So that's scary right there, man. And then you add on the top of that that there's like, like, you know, possessions and demons and stuff like that. Like, okay, you already had it. That's scary. Like being in the White House as a kid and having to deal with the spotlight and shit like that. Then you add on top of that, there's also demons and shit. Like, that's the best type of stories in my opinion. And so like that, that, that, that connection to the whole thing and that horror. And then I think that's why horror speaks to a lot of people nowadays is that emotional connection and the drama that's behind the horror itself. And so it's pretty cool. So. Yeah. But I think your artwork also lends itself to it too. Like, you're pretty good at, at putting yourself in that, you know, vein of horrific stuff. I mean, Harrow county is some of the most horrific stuff that you could probably read to a lot of. I had someone who was like, I just can't read it. I'm like, okay, that's amazing to me. [00:55:49] Speaker B: Because I feel like Harrow county is like, like it definitely has its gross out moments, but it is like one of the sweetest stories you could like. Like, it is like really like, because we always called it Southern, a Southern Gothic horror fairy tale. And I feel like the fairy tale part of it is like really sort of the motivating thing more than horror with Harrow County. [00:56:16] Speaker A: But it's true. I don't have that anyway. I don't think there's much that I can like, I could separate myself from anyway. So I'm like, yeah, that's gross. But like, I don't like, I can still read it. Like, it's like, I'm gonna definitely. There's more cringe moments to me in like Roman romance stories and they're, they're our horror stories. To me it's like, ah, God, my wife's watching a Hallmark movie for Christmas. I'm like, ah, this is horrible. Which, to be honest with you, you could take 90 of Hallmark movies and just twist one element of it and it becomes a horror story like immediately. And, and that's just. I sometimes think about that. I'm like, ah, you know, if you change this. My wife's like, shut up. I'm like, it'd be interesting. I want Hallmark just to do it one day. Like all these people like go on, on their Hallmark channel to watch the Hallmark Christmas movie and not realizing that all of a sudden I know where like someone gets murdered or, or someone's keeping someone in their basement. You're like, what the hell is going on? Yeah, I thought it was all, the guy's name is Nick and his name, her name's Holly. It makes sense. No, but yeah. So quickly before we get off here too, do you find we're in that season, holiday season, the horror season. Is it fun to see that connection to you? Do you see that, like horror, holiday, festive and thing. Like the idea that the two of them seem to meld so well together nowadays, like, you know, the Festus Christmas style, but juxtaposition of the whole horror. [00:57:27] Speaker B: On that, you know, that doesn't really resonate with me. [00:57:31] Speaker A: Okay. [00:57:31] Speaker B: Like Nightmare Before Christmas I think works. [00:57:36] Speaker B: But yeah, like seeing Santa Claus, like. [00:57:41] Speaker B: With a dead body, like, is it really exciting for me or anything that doesn't feel very fun. [00:57:46] Speaker A: Like Silent Night, Deadly Night is not something you're gonna go see in the theaters here. Coming up here pretty soon. No, no. [00:57:51] Speaker B: Okay. Like it feels like those Winnie the Pooh horror movies. [00:57:54] Speaker A: Yes, all those are. [00:57:55] Speaker B: Yeah, that's just where it's just sort of like. Yeah, I don't like, Winnie the Pooh actually is kind of. [00:58:03] Speaker B: Scary on its own. Yes. [00:58:05] Speaker A: Well, I thought to my, like, so one thing I thought we never haven't really seen yet, which I thought at least not big, is like the Christmas Carol. A Christmas Carol is a horror story at its heart because it's a ghost story. Like, why haven't we seen a truly terrifying, higher budget horror story based around that is beyond me because I mean, they did the whole behind the scenes thing with Grinch. Because the Grinch thing technically is also, to me could be really horrifying. Like you make it like really bad and obviously they don't have the rights to it. So it was obviously not as good and well produced. But like those are the stories where I'm like, those are actual horror stories, in my opinion, that are like festivities. Because it's obviously a children's story. Dr. Seuss wrote, you know, those. But like, But Christmas Carol to me was always been one of those ones. Like you could make it terrifying. Like, terrifying. [00:58:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:58:54] Speaker A: And I think that there's. No one's done it. [00:58:55] Speaker B: Also, like, Headless Horseman is kind of a Christmas story. At least it takes place in the, in the winter, I think. I think that's the kind of like, if you want to do a seasonal horror thing, like stories about like that just take place in the dark of winter is like potentially. And you're in Maine, I'm in Oregon. Like, gets dark, work at 4 here. And it's like, it's sad, man. [00:59:18] Speaker A: Like, it's so sad. Sometimes I'm like driving home from my office and I'm like, dude, it is dark already. I'm ready for bed now. And you know, and then like, I went to Iceland a couple years ago and it was like light at 2 o' clock in the morning. It was the most weird thing it's ever seen in my life where, like, people just walking on the street at 2 o' clock in the morning. Like, I also don't want that. I want the nice happy medium on those things. But yeah, I like living in Maine, so I'll. I'll deal with that. A side of things. But on the last thing I've quickly been asking people here in December is like, do you have a favorite Christmas movie? Is there something that you always put on around this time of year? Is it Nightmare Before Christmas? Is it something funny? What's, what's going on? What's your pick? [00:59:56] Speaker B: I do honestly, like It's a Wonderful Life, but I haven't watched that for a couple years. Like, I don't. I don't think I really have like a Christmas movie that, that. [01:00:12] Speaker B: That I, that I love. [01:00:13] Speaker A: Die Hard. [01:00:16] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I like Die Hard. [01:00:19] Speaker A: Who han me brought up Batman Returns because she was like, that's my favorite Christmas. I'm like, it happens at Christmas. Okay. [01:00:26] Speaker B: Okay, I can see that happen at Christmas. [01:00:27] Speaker A: Yeah, it happens at Christmas. Batman Returns. It's like the. There's a Christmas tree and like Tim Burton's Batman Return. Yeah, yeah, he's like, you know, he's got a Christmas thing with Nightmare Before Christmas, Batman Returns, all that stuff. No, I. Yeah, so Christmas to me is one of those things. It's like traditions and stuff. But it's funny. It's like the ones that remember as a childhood being like I used to watch this show was only available on VHS called Follow that Sleigh. It was a claymation like characters with a sky. His name is Elvis the rock and reindeer. And these kids fall into like Santa's sack. And like, like it's obviously abyss of some sort. And it's kind of creepy, kind of cool. But it's like, oh, this movie's amazing. And I put it on and first of all, obviously wasn't as good as it was as a child. And it was like 17 minutes long in my mind. It was like an hour and a half movie. This movie's already over. Like this is insane. But yeah, it's always been one of those things that like watch a few here and there. There hasn't been really a really good Christmas movie other than probably Elf since for a long time I haven't seen. [01:01:29] Speaker B: That that you know. Yeah, you mentioned the, the claymation stuff. But the Rankin Bass stop motion stuff is like still really, really. Like, like there's a few like shockingly weird and beautiful. Like. [01:01:42] Speaker A: Yes. And the key ones, you're like, you know, Rudolph and those ones. Those ones. There's a couple of obscure ones that my wife and I tried to watch. We're like, this is racist. And like I can't watch this right now. Like how is this even available to be streamed? It's at this point. No, but there are like the, the. The Santa Clauses coming to town and Rudolph. Those ones. Like it's also art. Like it's. So that's not done anymore really to that extent. So it's really cool to see that. And my dad's always said he's surprised they haven't. Do you. I mean, it's surprised they haven't done a new one in that vein for the nostalgia. Because nostalgia is everything right now. And I'm surprised that like we haven't seen a blockbuster film in December being released of this style of in actually doing it. Not using CGI to make it look like they're doing it. [01:02:26] Speaker B: Well, I think it's because it's expensive. Yeah, doing stop motion is like very, very slow process. [01:02:32] Speaker A: I mean Zootopia 2 just made like $1.5 billion or something like that. So like they can make some money on something, I hear. I mean, I brought my son's first movie he ever went to in the theaters of Zootopia 2 because I needed to find a movie that he know he would like care about. And so I'm part of that problem. But it was made for 150 million. $50 million. And it's gonna make a like 1.5 billion and like rich getting richer here. But no. But yeah. So hello Darkness comes out December 24th from Boom Studios. So grab that at your LCS. [01:03:00] Speaker B: December 24th. Or I thought it was the 17th. [01:03:03] Speaker A: I thought it was the 24th, but maybe it's the 17th. You're right. You could be right. Let me just. [01:03:06] Speaker B: I could be wrong. Anyway, it's coming out towards the end of December 17th. [01:03:11] Speaker A: Well, it makes sense. The 17th. The 17th. Right? Nobody makes sense, right? No, it's December 24th. [01:03:16] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah. So Christmas Eve. [01:03:19] Speaker A: Because you know what? I. I will say this is not. It sounds bad, but like your comic shop does also need help. Like it's just the holidays is a successful thing for them and they do get. Make more money obviously than potentially, you know, in September or whatever. But also less comics come out this time of year too. People realize that there's actually like less big name comics at least coming out this time of year. So there's less people buying their pull list or. Or maybe they're not getting their pull list because they're buying Christmas presents. So if you're gonna get anything, get some of the ones that have holiday covers or holiday themed stories or whatever it may be in it. I know. Dread the Halls just came out, which is phenomenal. It's a Christmas theme one. There's a couple other Christmas themed anthologies this year. There's some. I heard the Spawn one I saw Santa is. Is like dark. Like super dark. Like the most, like the most evil kid ever like ever takes like takes on Santa or something like that. So I've heard. And that's Chris Killian is doing that. It wrote that story. But yeah, I heard that's pretty bad. Like pretty dark. But yeah, so do that. Go to your local comic shop. So on the 24th, I know you're doing your other things when you're grabbing your last minute gift. Swing by your LCS and pick up hello darkness number 17. And then also pick up Harrow county gifts for your. [01:04:29] Speaker B: For your friends and family at the comic shop. [01:04:31] Speaker A: Yes, Harrow county. The Lonesome Hunters. You know. [01:04:37] Speaker A: Nice hardcover there. No, that's great. Yeah. Support your local comic book shop. To me, it's. It's their. My local comic book shop had a rough 2025. Not financially because of things, but like his car, his store got broken into. A car literally just crashed into the front of it, like Saturday night. [01:04:54] Speaker B: That's like, I Don't know. It's remarkable to me how many comic shops get broken into nowadays. It's like, it's. I follow a lot of comic shops and it's like, like it's really bad and it's just like so bad. People stealing like Funko Pops and. Yes, like that. [01:05:07] Speaker A: Well, it was his. The. What most was stolen was Pokemon cards. Then he says he sells Pokemon cards. [01:05:13] Speaker B: And the Pokemon card situation is like. [01:05:18] Speaker B: Just a nightmare, man. I don't know. Like to me, I was like, people live with themselves. [01:05:22] Speaker A: I told, I told my friend Paul, it's galactic comics and collectibles. I was like, hey, how is it legal for you to sell Pokemon cards to under kids under the 18? Because it's totally gambling. Like you're gambling on what's in the pack and then selling it. Like I know it's okay to sell it to them, but I'm like, I'm thinking myself, like the number of kids that have come in there and like literally opened up packs, didn't get anything good. It just left the cards on the table and left because they're like, I didn't want anything that's in there. I'm like, that's like a scratch ticket, man. That's. They didn't win it and they just left their garbage behind. And this is not cool. That person's gonna have addiction to gambling as they get older. And that's why I'm glad they don't do as many blind bag comics out there because I feel like I would, I would be buying way too many of them. I don't even read Invincible right now or Battle Beasts, but I bought a couple of the Battle Beast blind bag variances. I'm like, oh, I want to see what I get out of this. [01:06:10] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, just be fun. [01:06:11] Speaker A: Exactly. I gotta stop. I can't do this anymore. But yeah, local comic book shops need your help around this time of year too because obviously people have finite dollar amount they can spend and sometimes the comic book shops get left behind. And yes, your friends, families, there's graphic novels and comics for everybody. Nowad I bought my dad Elvis graphic novel a couple of years ago. He's the Elvis fan. So there's that, there's an Ali one, there's sports ones, there's horror, there's everything. But yeah, I personally would say grab out of Alcatraz and maybe some, some Lonesome Hunters or some Harrow county would say that too. [01:06:46] Speaker B: That's very interesting. [01:06:49] Speaker A: But yeah, so I appreciate you taking the time out, Tyler, and talking today. I hope this little break from work was our other work. Help you, like, reinvigorate and get some stuff going for you and to write some stuff down and Dr. Some stuff for us. But keep up the great work and Happy New Year, happy holidays, all that stuff. But we'll get you back on in the future if you. If you feel like it. In the future. [01:07:10] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, thank you so much for having me. This is a really fun little conversation. [01:07:14] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. So, yeah. So get out there and grab comics. Keep making comics. And thank you so much, Tyler. Have a great day. We'll talk soon. Okay. [01:07:21] Speaker B: All right. Thanks, everybody. [01:07:27] Speaker B: Sam.